last year. and they asked under oath whether or not cohen lied more than once in front of a judge. cohen agrees he did lie under oath. agrees because the stakes affected him personally. he knows what perjury means. add that one to the list, dana. >> dana: he does. what you are looking at here is outside the courtroom. several republican lawmakers who went to court today to be witnesses and bear witness afterwards in the press conference, they will be out there as soon as there is a break. that usually happens within the next 90 minutes. >> bill: that's right. we'll see -- i think john brought up a good question whether or not donald trump takes the stand. something we haven't really gotten to yet. >> dana: or if robert costello. our interview of the hour. harris faulkner takes you through the next hour. we'll see you here tomorrow. >> harris: breaking news and we'll have minute to minute coverage of the trial that's

going on now. former president donald trump's new york criminal trial we have covered. at this moment michael cohen is back on the stand. another day of the defense's cross examination. cohen is the prosecution's star witness and we've learned he will be their final one. i mean, what would you say after whatever it is you would call what he has done on that stand? i'm harris faulkner and you are in "the faulkner focus." team trump is laser focused on shredding cohen's credibility. shouldn't be too hard. he is a convicted liar and he has been profiting off of the former president's legal journey now. on tuesday michael cohen even admitted he wants to see trump convicted. a former legal advisor to cohen shredded his testimony and his character actually for the defense. he did their job for them. robert costello, who also worked

in new york's southern district said cohen insisted to him that donald trump knew absolutely nothing about the payments he was making to stormy daniels in return for staying quiet about an alleged affair with trump. trump's legal spokesperson says at the end of the day really only one thing matters. >> they haven't proved essential elements of the crime that is at hand. what they've done is created a lot of noise and a lot of distractions for the american people, giving you some salacious stories. don't forget what this is. this is about how they booked something at trump tower in the accounting department. whether they should have put legal expense. that's it. and you want to show me that donald trump, who was sitting in the white house, had any idea about that or that it was done incorrectly? both things i haven't seen. >> harris: the former president said this before the court began today. >> the problem is they're doing this case. it was a case that wasn't going

to be done and when i announced i was running. this could have been brought seven years ago but they wanted it right smack in the middle of election. interference and suppression, never anything like that. >> harris: a large group of house republicans. there are so many of them in new york today we'll scroll it showing their support and they are scheduled to begin speaking. we have journalists out by those microphones when it begins. the third or fourth day. it started with rick scott from florida last week who came forth and said look if they gag order a former president and he cannot defend himself and call the man on the stand a convicted liar, the liar that he is, then he has supporters who will call this as trump has, this entire case a sham. they have been lining up to do that. already we saw house speaker mike johnson here and so many others, vivek ramaswamy, today you saw that list we had to

scroll it there are so many supporters, lawmakers and others of the former president here in new york to talk on his behalf. to say what the judge basically has gagged him to say on their own. so they have wide latitude to say what they want. okay. first let's go to senior correspondent eric shawn who is outside the courthouse. we are getting ready to hear the surrogates talk for the president. between now and then, catch us up. >> harris, the question right now at this courthouse, some think it could destroy the prosecution case, alvin bragg's case against donald trump. but will the jury hear it? those are the new claims that say that michael cohen completely has contradicted what he told the jury on the stand three days ago telling a totally different story to one of his former advisors, robert costello, a prominent new york lawyer who back in 2018, when

cohen was raided by the f.b.i. advised him and back then he said donald trump was not involved in the arrangements to keep stormy daniels quiet. cohen took credit for the whole thing saying trump did not ask for it, did not pay for it or know anything about it. costello was on "america's newsroom" this morning. >> i kept on going back and suggesting to him listen, michael, if you have something truthful on donald trump, now is the time to cooperate. and he kept on saying over and over again, ten to 20 times, i swear to god, bob, i don't have anything on donald trump. cohen said i didn't believe the allegation but nevertheless it would be embarrassing to melania. that's michael cohen's words. >> he also said that he decided to take care of this myself. in court cohen is being cross-examined by todd blanche

trying to portray him as someone who hates his former boss and on a tirade to throw him behind bars and cohen acknowledged he lied in robert mueller's investigation and lied under oath when he testified at this congressional hearing in 2019. blanche asked you knew you were lying? cohen answered yes. so far robert costello's claims about what cohen told him in 2018 haven't been brought into the cross examination. that could still happen. costello told fox news he hasn't been subpoenaed by the defense. the defense witness list is not firmed up. they may call a witness who is an expert in federal election law and of course the former president has said he wants to testify but this news of a different story allegedly told by michael cohen that completely contradicts what he told the jury here is making big news here at court this morning. harris, back to you. >> harris: thank you. mercedes is on the mezz with me

today and my guest jonna spilbor and both criminal defense attorneys and ari fleischer, former white house press secretary and fox news contributor. so glad to have you all here. this is a big day and feels like it just got bigger. jonna, i will come to you first about what eric was just reporting in terms of the defense putting together its witness list now. now prosecution said michael cohen, we've had enough. karen mcdougal they canceled. your thoughts. >> the determination as to whether or not you are going to mounts a defense in this case will be right up until the last minute for obvious reasons. personally knowing what we know, i don't think it's necessary. because it's a little bit risky. if you think you have won the case at the close of the prosecution's case, sit down, shut up and make your argument

in front of the jury once the jury instructions have been discussed and figured out, which side bar will be a task in and of itself for a myriad of reasons. if i were on the team, i would be voting against mounting a defense. i would even be voting against calling bob costello to the stand. it is tempting but risky. >> harris: we got a note from john roberts inside the court and want to playing a potential discrepancy with costello's testimony to congress and the timeline, mercedes is bob costello's testimony contains a surprising discrepancy. john roberts reporting from the courthouse. when trump's inner circle went to washington after the inauguration, michael cohen was left behind in new york. cohen stated he thought trump became president and he, michael cohen, could become attorney

general of the united states. one of the many reasons why he was so angry with trump. but what do you make of this possible discrepancy. >> it goes back to what jonna said. when you are the defense you don't necessarily want to put too many people on that stand. if there is a discrepancy regarding bob costello we have to be very careful. fodder can be used against him especially if you are calling him to the stand. it has to be a careful decision. jonna, if i were defense i wouldn't put too many witnesses on. just hammer the prosecution of the burden of proof. >> harris: he said unless michael cohen had a feeling he would be iced out of a job with the add ministration prior to cutting an nda costello's timeline doesn't fit. would you have to explain that to the jury?

>> especially you don't if they take the wind out of the sails. the prosecution will hammer him on cross examination. >> harris: why is that particular point relevant? >> it is all about what is michael cohen's motivation to do all this. if his motivation is i'm angry at donald trump and we talked about this before the show, it is easy to show he had a lot of anger toward former president trump. he has a picture of a t-shirt with trump behind bars. the things he said about trump on social media. it is clear cohen had a lot of anger issues toward president trump. if you thought you would get the attorney general's position and you didn't get it. that timeline has to double, it had to have been done during the time of the payments to stormy daniels, which was in the summer of 2016. not in january of 2017. so that is problematic for bob costello if he takes the stand. >> harris: we're getting

realtime look at what's going on at this point. i read you an email from my cohort and mercedes and i were reading it on the desk, john roberts. i understand better what you are talking about. if you think you are ahead why would you slow down and start walking? continue to run to the finish line. >> and it is a big, big decision. but the other thing i think that's coming clear is that michael cohen had problems with basically every relationship he has ever had in and out of the courtroom. his relationships ended badly and his relationship with bob costello ended badly. if you put him on the stand, for example, now you give the prosecution an opportunity to question bob costello's motives. do we need to risk that when there is so little evidence, no evidence of a crime. do we risk it? i vote no for that reason.

they are ahead. they are ahead clearly. i say they sit down at the close of the prosecution's case, make their motion to dismiss, which will fail in front of this judge, but would be granted in front of any other judge. and then knock it out of the park on closing arguments. >> harris: i tell you bob costello said some amazing things on "america's newsroom" today and that's really when more of the talk about would you put on the stand what is happening moments after that 25-minute long interview. and it was really remarkable. as john roberts points out in his note to our entire team, if there is even one glitch. you said it, too, that becomes the focus. right now it sounds like from both of you are saying the prosecution might be a little thirsty for something to work with. ari fleischer, you are up next as soon as we come back from a quick back. we're covering the trial. it is epic. it is looking really good for the defense. one catch, how is it playing to

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>> harris: back with mercedes and jonna and ari fleischer.

i want to start with the politics of this. the list of surrogates. these are people in town, lawmakers, most of them coming in from d.c., although some of them may be home as well. the virginia state senator. mostly representatives and a virginia state senator here as well. we've seen this people. our journalists have seen these people going into the courthouse. as they filter out to the microphone we'll take these possible guest speakers immediately. your thoughts on all of this surrogacy. the big voices coming out for trump. >> it is fascinating. it also proves my long time theory that democrats are from mars and republicans are from venus. and by that i mean democrats believed that these indictments would be a kiss of death for donald trump. by indicting donald trump he would become so unacceptable in the eyes of the american people that nobody would want to have anything to do with donald trump and therefore they could defeat him through the legal system so they would not have to lose to

him through the electoral system. but republicans look at it and say you are making this innocent man into a victim and proud to stand by donald trump and defend him. i think democrats would be shocked to know that republicans look at this as the normalization of donald trump as a flag worth rallying behind which is why they all show up to new york to do this. normally a politician hears somebody is indicted they head for the hills. in the case of donald trump the charges in my judgment are so thin and political and so designed to achieve through law what they cannot achieve through electoral results that they indicted him and they are shocked that it didn't accomplish what they sought and why republicans are rallying around the trump flag. >> harris: you mentioned what do they do on the other side of the aisle? look at bob menendez now, senior senator from my home state of new jersey and in new york in a federal court with an indictment. the guy with the cash and gold bars and everything they found

in his home. he and his wife have been indicted now. that's going on and you aren't seeing that show of support. cory booker is in new jersey and wouldn't have to drive far to support him, a democrat senator. so i do want to go to this polling, though. i'm trying to figure out why all of a sudden there is a slim majority of voters who say former president trump is being fairly treated by the legal system. as you might expect a different partisan breakdown, right? 89% of democrats say sure he is being treated fairly. only 13% of republicans say he is being treated fairly. 52% of independents say he is being treated fairly. i'm surprised the numbers are so high just in general, ari. i want to come back to you on the political point. how is this playing in the greater country with the back drop of a presidential election? >> this is the risk to donald trump. why do you think they brought the charges in one of the bluest counties in the united states of

america? the county of new york. manhattan. manhattan when i was working for george bush, manhattan went 85-15 for the democrats against george bush. some numbers against trump. it is one of the most ideologically narrow minded places in america. i can point to numerous small towns in mississippi and alabama that are more ideologically di verse than the island of manhattan. democrats think it is fair because they have a different ideological point of view and why they picked manhattan for this case and why they picked fulton county for this case. if they ever went to a purple area of america you couldn't find a jury that would convict donald trump. there is a huge risk still to donald trump by venue, not by fact, but by venue. what you pointed to. if people think this is fair, it is because manhattan overwhelmingly democrats across the country think it is fair.

>> harris: the only thing that moves the needle at all is the explosion of particularly illegal immigrants on the streets of new york. you know, just here in the last, well, latest presidency and it has become a great problem for the city and mayor to pay for, the resources sustaining that. you did see even a tick up in how many people would say they would maybe vote independent. they weren't sure. that hasn't happened yet. that vote count hasn't happened yet. we have the polling. for all the things that you mentioned it is dicey ground. jonna, i want to come to you on the point of putting together a fair trial, jury. does any of that even matter? we have a judge who put a gag order and then enforced all these violations that the prosecution said that trump committed. but yet michael cohen is out fundraising off of all this. he is filling his pockets with cash by bashing the plaintiff in

this case. >> part of the problem here is that the judge and alvin bragg and company has sucked the integrity out of the criminal justice system beyond a measure we have ever seen. will the jury in essence be able to fix that, right? will the jury come back and do the right thing? and we need to hope so, but they are not going to be motivated to do so by an allegiance or like for donald trump. they have to really focus on i was going to say evidence. i should say lack of evidence in this case. that's why i keep coming back to the jury instructions are going to be so problematic because this entire time one of the things that is so offensive is that the d.a.'s office has gotten to just insinuate or allude to some underlying predicate crime that hasn't been charged or proven. that's intentional to confuse this jury into some sort of

guilty verdict. it might work for some. if it doesn't work for all trump's team is still in good shape. who knows? >> harris: jury instructions and the underlying crime. the jury instructions will come but they could easily benefit the prosecution not saying that the judge would entirely want to do that, or do that at all. but when you don't know the underlying crime, they can be pretty broad. >> i have so much faith in the judicial system and this is my home and where i practice. >> harris: you believe in it even in new york. >> i have been practicing in a long time and success with new york jurors. does it make sense? the key issue here is, is michael cohen credible? look, was stormy daniels effective? she was effective she needed to do what she needed to do and testified and went way beyond what she was told to do. here is a woman who claimed this

encounter happened. she explained why this encounter happened and explained what her recollection was. does she really matter at the end of the day? not really because she was -- she was effective because what the prosecution wants to show is hey, this is -- defense is lying to you saying this encounter never took place and i will put a witness in front of you that says that. >> harris: it really doesn't matter. >> that's what is so key. you have to be so laser focused as a defense attorney and defense team and not get -- that's noise, this is a red herring. stormy daniels was not in this back about getting paid or not getting paid. none of that took place. they didn't have those conversations with trump and why you can set aside stormy. focus on michael cohen. keep saying he is a liar, a

liar, motivation to lie. that's why bob costello -- >> harris: is the defense in your opinion doing enough right now? >> i think they have to move more. look, the great team, excellent team. they have to keep hammering home on the fact that michael cohen is a liar and has a motivation to lie. that's the key. >> harris: he says he wants to run for congress and you don't have to be too dialed in to know how ridiculous that is. notice the box on the right side of your screen, it will bring you information, sometimes it's a little bit of color of what's going on inside the courtroom. if and when the president is brought out, the former president on a break, usually about this time before lunch, about ten or 15 minutes, we'll cover it all. you have will see him. sometimes he talks, sometimes he does a fist bump and a wave.

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>> harris: our eye is on a bank of microphones right now in new york city because that is where we expect to hear from former president donald trump's supporters who have traveled from different areas in the country, mostly d.c. we'll scroll there are so many today. we've seen this list of supporters grow daily and they come out and they not only defend him but they tear down the law fare that the legal movement that it appears, at least on the left right now, might be disappointing to them. we'll have to see how this case shakes out. as you will often hear me say and maybe mercedes coleman might disagree a little bit. these jurors might be more predictable than others because the people around them, democrats in the city. we'll see how it shakes out. in the meantime those republican

supporters are due at the bank of microphones. when they start speaking it is spicy and we'll take it immediately. now i want to bring in sean duffy. and sean, fox news contributor, also former member of the house and i come to you there also co-host of the bottom line with dagen and duffy on fox business. i come to you with this concern now that there has to be politically -- these people are showing up now for the president. >> first off, i think it is important that these members of congress actually say what donald trump can't say himself. but making -- dagen made this point to me. having the members of congress in the courtroom. what does it say to the jury? he is not sitting alone by himself. senators and house members come in and say this is something beyond the facts of the case, this is about an election. one of your other guests pointed

this out. remember the congress we run for the hills when there are charges. we don't want to be around these kind of trials. but when it is this kind of trial that you have members of congress coming out in droves i think it speaks volumes to the jury. >> harris: you know, i do want to mention because we popped up the former president on the screen, they took a 15 minute break but they are well into that now. they have eight or nine minutes left in the break just generally how they do things. you see him there giving a thumbs up as i mentioned before. he often will do that. this is about the time they usually would take one of the pre-lunch breaks. when they go back in if he stops to say anything or whatever he does we'll try to catch that live but want to catch up and always show you what we're seeing there at the courthouse. meanwhile, you know the new yorkers here that are lawmakers are interesting. there is a freshman democrat new york congressman dan goldman trying his best right now to tear down the former president and republicans kind of as a whole. more of that happened during a

subcommittee hearing yesterday. well, a fellow new yorker, congresswoman stefanik, republican. went after that. watch. >> he announced his candidacy for president two years before the election just so he could bring in three witnesses and the entire republican party to say election interference, election interference. these investigations long pre-dated it. all the republican majority is trying to do here today is law fare, is interfere in ongoing criminal investigations that our system is perfectly well equipped to handle. i yield back. >> gentlemen yields back. ms. stefanik. >> i love being able to respond to the novice from new york. first of all thank you so much for stating the obvious that political law fare is election

interference. thats what we're seeing with the sham alvin bragg trial. >> harris: first of all she called him a novice. he shouldn't be in that job. whatever. he is elected. yeah, that's interesting. so with the law fare, this is election interference. we are so close to even the debates beginning. >> well done on stefanik's part. a lot of members of congress had questions and statements written in advance that was impromptu and she did a great job of taking down goldman in that hearing but you are right. even having democrats talk about these prosecutions as law information and election interference goldman was reflecting what so many americans feel about the donald trump trial and the facts of this case and the evidence that really hasn't matched the facts as we've seen this play out for the last month. again he is reflecting the viewpoint of so many americans and can i make a point in the trial? i was a prosecutor and i oftentimes not always possible but always liked to keep my best

and most powerful witnesses for the end of the trial. that's the last witnesses in mind the jury will hear before summation in a debate of the case. they are putting up michael cohen as a star witness. a man who has lied to congress and a man who lied to the courts, who has a motivation to lie one for money as a financial interest but hatred for donald trump. this is an absolute disaster, i think, for the prosecution. we talked about a lot of different things, nda agreements, salacious details of a hotel in utah, but the bottom line this is about how was a payment classified? what was the accounting procedure that took place in the trump organization? and we really haven't heard a lot of evidence about that. so your panel has talked about would you putted on any evidence as we look to donald trump's team and what they are going to do? do they rest after the state rests? i would say yes.

it goes to the point the state hasn't made their case or presented evidence to meet the elements of the crime. i don't need to present any evidence. >> harris: why help them out and make a mistake in some way? >> wrap it up is what i would do. >> harris: we saw the former president come in with a wave and they will keep going on this thing. we also saw eric trump just right behind him. you have support in the courtroom that is family, lawmaker and sean pointed out -- than want to bring back the panel. i'm so appreciateive. ari, you were making this point, this is more than just about what's going on outside. it is what's going on inside that courtroom, too. the president can see these people supporting him. the former president. >> it really is about what's going on inside the courtroom. i'm glad for what is happening outside the courtroom. make no mistake this won't change what the jury decides.

they won't decide one way another because people on the outside are supporting donald trump. that's why everything comes down to is this a fair trial and what will the jury decide? i happen to believe for the reasons i said earlier that because it is such an overwhelmingly democratic district with a democratic judge and supported campaign against donald trump, the politics of alvin bragg, if trump has got a hung jury or is acquitted this is going to propel him like a rocket because now he will beat the charge. what a boost, what a backfire for the democrats. that's the up side of it. if he is convicted, i just don't believe it will change any votes because of what i said earlier. it is so democratic, the deck is stacked. are there really many independent voters who are undecided who say i probably would have voted for donald trump and got convicted in manhattan?

i see upside for donald trump and a limited downside and i don't rule out he will be convicted. we don't know what's happening inside that jury box. >> harris: what i was about to kind of observe and get you to react to, ari, is this idea so say he -- whatever is going on with him at the end of the trial, what matters now is that joe biden and all of his bad polling, that is a back drop that is now in the forefront. look at the dow jones yesterday. if you have a lot of money invested, that's great. but if you don't, that is a sign that biden can go out and brag about rich folk and everybody else is feeling the high prices at the grocery store and of everything else. it just further shows the divide between these two men that one can begin to sink in the polls and he is not facing all these charges. ari. >> right, right. i am convinced the democrats

believed ardently with everything inside them that indicting donald trump would lead to a huge drop in donald trump's polling numbers and propel joe biden. after all how can any normal minded america and say the man is on trial and indicted, # eight charges, whatever it is, that he is not guilty. that's how democrats think. for much of the rest of the country that is not how they think. and that's the problem the democrats made in trying to settle something through law what they should have settled by taking it to the voters. and that's where i think donald trump has the advantage. it is amazing that he could be on trial and go up in the polls. that is exactly what's happening. that's the real world that we live in. and this is the backfire risk for the democrats. >> harris: up in the polls and fundraising, too. quickly we'll take a short commercial break here. mercedes, i want to get your idea. they are back in the courtroom right now and as they get ready to continue cross examination, you want them to do some single

very important things. maybe just one or two of those and we'll take a quick break. >> i thought you were looking at me. they really do have to say go back to saying that you lied before congress, your social media what you said about much you hate him and go back to your interviews 17 times by the federal prosecutors yet there is nothing that came out of it, correct? and that's pretty much it. that's where i would go back to just the amount of lying that he has done and just seal it and get him off the stand. he will be rehabilitated by the prosecution. >> harris: he will be rehabilitated by the prosecution? you think on redirect they will fortify his reputation? >> they will certainly try. you have no reason to lie. there is no plea deal with the prosecution. we don't have a plea deal with you. that's how they have to rehabilitate him. otherwise all you have is a liar

and hates trump. you need to go back and say you have no motivation, there is no agreement here. >> harris: he is not the only one who hates trump. stormy daniels said it on the stand and look, i have know that there possibly is a discrepancy with bob costello that we talked about but he said a lot this morning about that item and michael cohen, hate for trump. trump back in the courtroom. cohen's cross examination is about to pick back up. we'll take a quick short break. ...but they can be remade in a whole new way. thanks to you... we're getting bottles back... and we've developed a way to make new ones from 100% recycled plastic. new bottles - made using no new plastic. you'll be seeing more of these bottles in more places. and when we get more of them back... ...we can use less new plastic. see how our bottles are made to be remade.

president of the united states whether or not they like it or want that to happen. president trump will be rehe leshted. turn it back to matt gaetz to

manage his time. >> one of the past leaders of the house freedom caucus, andy biggs. >> thank you. if you want to know how you can try to impact an election, you can bring a candidate, the candidate for the republicans and try to tie him up in court over and over again. if you really want to make it a sham, you bring a couple of people in who have no credibility and you put them up as your star witnesses. we saw today firsthand. mr. cohen, mr. cohen admitted repeatedly that he lied. admitted repeatedly he did so for his own personal interest. that tells you everything you know about the lack of credibility of this case. then you add to that that you have a judge, you have a judge whose daughter is making literally 100,000 bucks, at

least, because she is going around using this trial to raise money for democrats. that is what is happening. that is what is happening. and so i think that what's pretty clear to us, that this is a sham trial. it is being done for political purposes, and that just should not stand in the united states of america. i will give it back to my friend, mr. gaetz. >> my colleague from the house oversight committee and from the state of florida. >> i want to point out they are telling people that they can't have cameras in the courtroom but if they have nothing to hide, if they are truly being honest about this why is it that you guys can't be in the courtroom and see exactly what we're seeing? just because we're members of congress does not mean we have authority more than you guys to know exactly what is happening in that courtroom. an update. the president is doing well. he is in good spirits. we're here today because we know that this is nonsense and should

not be happening in the united states of america. furthermore, to call on admitted the lying members of congress is contempt of congress. just so you are tracking. it is by no coincidence that you have goldman, a number of house oversight prepared cohen for his testimony is also retainered by the judge's daughter as a client. does that seem like it is not sham to you? it is corrupt law fare, the biden prosecution. and biden you are going the lose this election cycle. >> joined my mr. waltz from florida. >> i've served all over the world. in africa, the middle east, and south america. this is the type of country, those are the types of countries where they weaponize the judicial system against their political opponents.

maduro, every p.m. in pakistan knows if they lose they're going to be put in jail. is this what we want america to become? this is what we're becoming. let's talk about the judges. the judges in florida in an effort to stay apolitical, won't even attend an event or take a photo with a member of congress. so that the public believes they are objective. but yet we have a judge that is contributing. we have a judge whose daughter is making money. we have a judge whose family is enriching themselves on what is happening today? any judge worth their salt would have recused themselves because they care about the people's perception of justice. this isn't justice. this is politics. it is political war fare and we see it happening in third world

countries all over the world. i never thought i would see it happening in the united states of america. >> >> harris: we'll pull back from that a little bit so we can work through what we're seeing here. something has come up and mercedes is with me and jonna and ari and sean. i asked how they right about how other judges won't even take a picture. the congressman has seen it with his own eyes and said there is just one problem with merchan and what we know to be true about him. >> here is the thing. when the judge raised the issue whether he should recuse himself. neither the prosecution or defense raised an objection. i'm not sure why they didn't. if i believe i have a biased judge i will jump up and down and say you have to recuse yourself, you can't be impartial. the judge, to his credit, gave that opportunity and the defense stayed quiet.

>> harris: so jonna, there is another way to look at what mercedes is saying. if you want to set up a situation for appeal, let that judge rock-n-roll with his daughter the democrat and all his donations as a judge to the democrat party and all the other things that you just heard from these lawmakers, specifically congressman waltz of florida. >> if that is the first issue in the appellate brief that the judge should have recused himself according to the code of conduct and didn't it is likely the panel on the appellate division won't get to the whole laundry list of the rest of the stuff. they will say that is correct. it is reversible error. the rest of the points won't matter. there are a lot of points. under the code of conduct he had an absolute duty, not maybe, not if, not if everybody -- no, he shall recuse himself if he is connected especially in the way that he is connected outside of this courtroom to other people

extraneous to this trial and he blatantly thumbed his nose at the code of conduct disrespecting his robe, disrespecting the people of this country and the people of the state of new york. he did it all. so that would be argument number one in the appellate brief and they don't get to issue number 100. >> i love you. we go way back. but when that judge said do you have a problem with me being the presiding judge? no one objected. it will be an issue for the defense. if they rest on that, they will have an issue on that appeal and they will argue maybe former president trump will switch it out and have an appellate counsel say i had ineffective counsel because they didn't raise this objection about this judge? i don't see that happening. that what has been reported. the judge gave the opportunity and no one said yes. >> harris: prosecutor sean duffy. >> i love the conversation what will happen on appeal.

who cares what happens on appeal? democrats will get what they want, a conviction of donald trump before the election. this is about law fare. you have alvin bragg versus donald trump. donald trump by himself having the members of congress come out shows actually, no, it is alvin bragg versus the republican party. beyond that it is about alvin bragg versus every single trump voter. the law fare and interference is what's being demonstrated today. make no mistake, this is about having an impact on the election, not about what will happen on appeal. >> harris: i want to go back at it, jonna. similar arguments in a way. you are both saying the judge is wrong in this and that recused is what should have happened. however, could the defense take another snap at that and put that in closing? >> not in closing, no.

this would be an issue for appeal. if they get by the judge staying on the case, as i think mercedes pointed out there are 150 other issues that have happened in this trial of the irrelevant evidence that has come out that is ripe grounds for appeal to be addressed. this will happen two or three years down the road. long after the election is over. >> harris: if it happens at all. we have a short second here. the politics of this ari is maybe some of this goes away if trump is not elected. >> sure, if he is not elected then a lot of this goes away. trump you would think goes away. but i want to go back to these republicans at the microphone. they play an extraordinarily important role in the politics of this but they need to be better and more accurate. they need to go after the judge for the political donations he made to joe biden. judge merchan in 2020 donated to biden. he also donated to the progressive turnout project and a group called stop republicans.

>> harris: i will bring you all back. "outnumbered" after the break. s that lead to higher test scores? or that propane can cut your energy costs at home? it powers big jobs and small ones too. from hospitals to hospitality, people rely on propane-an energy source that's affordable, plentiful, and environmentally friendly for everyone. get the facts at propane.com/now. veteran homeowners checked your credit card rates lately? many are over 22%, near 30% if you pay late. why not do what thousands of veteran families have done. call newday and pay off that high rate debt with the lower rate newday 100 va cash out loan. it lets you pay off your credit cards and car loans with one easy monthly payment. get the cash you need and the peace of mind you deserve.

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