>> the trump trial in a brief recess as they try to get the audio working. it will be interesting to know, is this the 1:30 phone call about the 14-year-old? and did he get stormy daniels in there? we'll have to wait and see. >> stay tuned. thanks so much, everybody, for joining us. we'll be back here tomorrow. >> "the story" with martin and and the continuation of the trump trial starts right now. >> martha: indeed. thank you both very much. good afternoon, everybody. i'm martha maccallum on a

monday. and this is "the story". michael cohen testifying once again. that is back underway. they are working through a technical issue with an audio evidence. so what is this piece of audio that we're hearing on redirect from the prosecution? it comes after a very tense back and forth over a photograph that the prosecution wants the jury to see. so we're going to get you caught up on all of what that is or what that may be. earlier today, the defense elicited a bombshell. our second one, really. one on thursday and another whopper today. a lawyer who secretly recorded his clients and lied repeatedly, by his own admission, under oath. and he admitted today that he

stole from the trump organization. >> you're actually just an opportunistic thief. you literally pocketed money from your employer. >> i stole $60,000 from my boss on the transaction in the heart of this case. stealing $60,000 through fraud is more serious of a crime than falsifying business record. >> martha: well, that's about it, right? lydia has been at the courthouse all day watching this up close. hi there, lydia. >> hi there, martha. court is still very much ongoing, and we're actually getting some information from our producers who are still inside in real-time listening to the text of that phone call that you just mentioned. the transcript is now becoming available, and this is from an

october 17th, 2017, phone call between michael cohen and keith davidson. the prosecution is admitting this on their redirect of michael cohen. on this call apparently it says -- or it sounds like cohen says, quote, what would you do if you were with me. would you write a book, break away from the entire trump do doctorine, go completely rogue? it's not just being that's affected, it's my entire family. nobody is thinking about michael. who else would do that? i did because i care about the guy, and i wasn't going to play pennywise foolish, and i'm thinking what about me. he said, i hate the fact that we did it. so in all this, cohen is saying he is referring to the payment to davidson made on behalf of trump for that stormy daniels nondisclosure agreement.

cohen says that the person who, quote, hates the fact that we did it was trump. so all of this is the prosecution's attempt to push back on the narrative that trump did not know about this nondisclosure agreement with stormy daniels. that information now coming in on redirect. one other thing i want to mention to you is that earlier we had intense exchanges between the prosecution and the defense about another photo. the photo apparently shows trump photographed with his bodyguard around the same date as that phone call we heard about last week in which cohen called sheiler. the parties have worked out an agreement to allow that photo to come in, so we're expecting to hear more about this.

but what's really interesting is the objections over this photo. blanch said they have a witness of their own to call in their own case. he said that that witness is actually here in court. who is that defense witness to be part of the defense case? we're not sure yet, but we have talked about how that potentially could be bob costelo, possibly an expert witness bradley smith. we're not sure. but as soon as the prosecution rests their case, which could happen this afternoon, we could soon find out how the defense is going to move forward with its own case and what sounds like is a witness that's ready to go in the wings. martha, back to you. >> martha: very dramatic this afternoon. lydia, thank you so much. let's bring in jim now.

jim, just to go back a little earlier as we were watching todd blanch, he said, is it true that you will lie out of loyalty. cohen said, yes, sir. and is it true you stole $60,000 from trump. he said, yes. so big digs in michael cohen's credibility. now we're on the redirect, and the prosecution is trying to straighten some of this out. trying to prove that indeed the president, they say, did know about the payments and coordinated them with michael cohen. one of the ways they're trying to establish that, i guess, is a picture of keith scheiler and trump around the time of the phone call. but it turned out to be the bulk of that conversation appears to have been about a 14-year-old who was bothering him on social media. how do you think it went this

morning, how do you think the redirect is going? this is a big effort on their part. >> it's an impossible task. look, the idea that a photograph somehow revives that phone call is absurd. there's no dispute that scheiler and trump were with each other all the time. a picture from that time period that shows they're near each other means absolutely nothing. unless it was literally at the same time as the phone call. look, these prosecutors should be ashamed of themselves. you could not have a worse witness on every aspect than michael cohen. the only question i would ask at this point is how long have you been a pathological liar. god knows what the answer is. he's out of control as the most unethical, former lawyer, failed cooperator, thief, purgerer. and for prosecutors to knowingly

put that guy on the stand to be their case. we always wondered if there was real collaboration or not. they may survive this case, but they ought to be ashamed of themselves for putting this guy on the stand. >> martha: i want to play some of the media reaction because i've been listening to a lot of different places in terms of how attorneys are approaching this. and up until, i would say, thursday, uniformly when you switched around on the channels and heard the coverage of this you would hear that this is going very well for the prosecution. and that they had laid down a foundation for the jury that trump was aware of these payments and that it was done for an election purpose. these are all, i believe, cnn.

watch. >> i'm shocked that we're hearing it for the first time on day three. we're talking about $420,000. >> this isn't 15 bucks. >> this is a bomb. this is really important. this is a bomb dropped in the middle of the prosecution's case. >> martha: of course it all goes down to how the jury interprets all of this, jim. >> look, jury selection and jury instructions remain the biggest part of this trial. i think the defense has been successful at making it all about cohen's credibility. and boy did he oblige. he's been a terrible witness. in a normal world with a normal crime, there would be nail in the coffin when it comes to

costelo. but we'll see. >> martha: jim trusty, thank you very much. we're waiting to hear more about this audio that just was released and this photo and what other testimony we will hear on this redirect and what other testimony we may see. jim, thank you very much. good to see you. also joining me, texas republican. so did you come here of your own accord? it almost feels like a lot of people down there are obviously showing their strong support for the former president. he can't speak for himself due to these gag orders. but also people who may be interested in a future trump administration. >> that's not my interest, but i came because i'm a long-time supporter of president trump. i've obviously worked for him

before. i i think our biggest issues in our country right now is election interveinterference. lady justice doesn't wear a blindfold in this biden administration anymore. i think she's wearing the cohen shirt with trump behind bars, and that's a shame because we cannot allow that to happen. i'm here on behalf of the american people. on behalf of all people in my district for sure in the state of texas. we are just disgusted and terrified around what's going on right now in new york. just because he's the political opponent that's about to win the next election. >> martha: in one aspect, he's in the courtroom and talking about what he sees as a travesty of this court proceeding. and then he goes uptown to the bronx and says i want to win new york. i mean, i love this city and i love this state.

it's a fascinating contrast. >> and it shows you how out of touch the prosecution is with the american people and the biden administration is with the american people. no matter where he goes, people love president trump. they're supporting him. they didn't vote for him last time, but based on what's happening they will absolutely vote for him this time because this is wrong. >> martha: what do you think about the possible outcome? we can't get into the minds of this jury. and as we just heard, one of the big factors is the jury instructions. they will be told by the judge, these are the things you have to take into account here. and then they'll go through the summations of what they heard on both sides. what if there's a guilty verdict? >> if it, it will be overturned on appeal. all the legal experts on all the channels, even the liberal side of the media, is saying that this is not going to stand up. i don't think that will happen,

quite honestly. i would think there are at least a couple jurors who will be objective about this. i know they tried their best to hand-pick the jury, the same way they hand-picked the judge and the prosecutor and the venue it's happening in. i hope that most of the jurors didn't go in with a pre-determined idea on what they're going to do. i'm going to listen to it myself tomorrow, but what i've been hearing on tv every day coming out of the courtroom, it's just overwhelmingly against the prosecution and in favor of the defense. and i think that we'll win this. >> martha: i do think jurors take their responsibility seriously, and i think they listen to all of the input and they know that they have someone's reputation and in some cases their lives in their hands. so we hope that they will really balance all of this very carefully. >> new yorkers may not have always supported president trump in the elections, but they don't

like to be played. and i don't think they'll be played on this one. >> martha: thank you for joining us today. so there is a big decision to be made in this case. the decision that may come in the jury instructions may have one of the biggest impacts on the outcome of this case before the jury reaches a verdict. we're going to explain to you why the jury could look at a lesser set of charges and whether or not the defense or the prosecution will want to see them have that option. this is a huge point legally. when we come back.

♪(song in french)♪ (♪) (♪) (♪) (♪) book in the hotels.com app to find your perfect somewhere. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're

sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. ♪ my back got injured very bad. i was off work for about a year. i heard about relief factor from my wife... i took it every day, three times a day, for three weeks. ...look at her and i said, "the pain is gone." and she said, "i'm glad it helped." i said, "no, you don't understand. it's gone." you, too, can feel better every day with relief factor, a daily supplement that fights pain naturally. call or go online now and get 35% off your first order.

her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. >> martha: a lot happening right

now. the prosecution has rested its case. they are done. michael cohen is done. they are not, according to what we're learning right now, going to call any further messages including this c-span archivists we were hearing about. we are learning that the defense will be calling a witness, and the first witness -- we don't know if there's going to be more than him. it's andrew sitco, and he is a law clerk -- sorry, he is a paralegal. we're just getting this information from lydia who is there in the courtroom. defense witnesses call daniel sitco. todd blanch will handle the direct examination.

there was a spreadsheet created with the calls between cohen and costello. but the question being considered today in the wall street journey today, if the trump team or the prosecution is worried about the 34 felony convictions and whether or not they have made their case, either side has the right to ask the judge if he will allow them to consider 34 misdemeanor charges. now, former state judge ethan greenberg says that would be a gamble. quote, if the jury considers only felonies and they find trump falsified records but lacked intent to cover up a crime, he would be acquitted. if they consider these misdemeanors and conclude the

same thing, they could convict him on this lesser charge. ethan greenberg joins me now. thank you very much for being with us today. i was surprised to learn that they could consider these lesser charges because i thought the misdemeanor charges had outlasted the statute of limitations. but i guess if you look at them creatively, they can still be alive, right? >> that's right. thanks for having me. the law says any period of time where you're out of the state, it doesn't count. and mr. donald trump has been first in the white house for four years and largely in florida since then. so i don't think the time has run out. >> martha: obviously the bar for the prosecution is very high because they have to prove that the former president falsified these business records, these checks essentially, and that he did so with intent to commit a

crime. what do you bet happens here in regards to these misdemeanor charges. i'm having a hard time believing the trump team will go, please consider the lesser charges. >> well, first the defense can ask for it. the prosecution asks for it. either case the judge has to submit them. the third possibility is the judge can do it. and there will be reason for all three to do it, which is the case is much stronger as a misdemeanor than a felony. there are a lot of evidence around falsified evidence, but the weakest part of the case is evidence of an intent to conceal another crime. so he could be guilty of the

misdemeanor and not guilty of the felony. if trump wants to be sure, he may want to offer the jury a compromise. on the other hand, if he feels really confidence he may want to roll the dice and say all or nothing. because he believes it will be nothing. but the prosecution may think the same thing. or it's not a certainty they're going to prevail on the felony so therefore it would be a good safety fallback to have the misdemeanors there too because it's better to get something than nothing. and 34 misdemeanors and significant. that's 34 crimes, and you can get up to two years in jail for that. >> martha: which most people don't think would happen. he has no priors and it's a nonviolent crime. >> in all likelihood, he's not getting time in jail either way.

>> martha: ethan greenberg, thank you very much, sir. it's an interesting thing to consider as we get closer to the jury deliberations here. thank you for coming by. right now defense witness daniel sitko, as i mentioned, is on the stand. andrew, good to have you here. just weigh in for me first. do you think there's any chance that either side asks the judge or that the judge independently decides to allow this jury to consider the lesser misdemeanor charges in this case? >> very low odds. i think donald trump cannot ask for it because that would essentially waive the statute of limitations. and i don't think the judge will have much tolerance with the

statute of limitations game. that being said, there's the basic element of the business record entry of legal expense being a fraudulent or incorrect entry. there's no evidence that that's an improper entry, and there's been no witness to testify. like a forensic accountant, for example. so it doesn't matter if it's a misdemeanor or a felony, if they don't have that element on the misdemeanor, there's no crime at all. >> martha: and they've not gone so far as to lay out evidence that he did so with intent to conceal another crime. you can probably count on one hand the time they even mentioned, oh is this because of the election. and there was no evidence given to substantiate that. pecker said, we all knew it was going to impact the election. but weak. >> the basic paradigm seems to be donald trump bad guy. donald trump bad guy, laid down with dogs and got some flees. and then when he decided to run

for president, he decided to get away from those flees. those fleas being stormy daniel and cohen. the member with cohen is the only one who could i think that intent up with the juries. you've already characterized him as a liar, and they owned that up front, the prosecution. and then it comes out that he stole this 30 grand -- >> martha: 60. >> and when they advertise it out, it ends up being 60. i don't think the prosecution knew that was coming. so the defense is in a position to say, okay, he said he's a liar, they said he's a liar, and he's still not telling the truth. >> martha: the key question the jurors will soon be considering is a straight-forward one. did the former president cause

the creation of false business records. the prosecution has answered the first half. there's no reason to doubt that the records were false, but the verdict is likely to turn on the other half, whether he caused the false information to appear on the invoices and the vouchers. like i said, if you watch the legal panels on these other channels, they're all this case has been proven three ways to sunday. it's all airtight >> i just can't get my head wrapped around what's false around the entry. and we hear donald trump say that in the hallway as well. so you make this payment to michael cohen. what do you put that in the books as? i mean, you have to make a business decision. president trump keeps saying he put it as construction expenses. it wasn't hidden. >> martha: he was obviously paying michael cohen, and cohen says i wasn't doing any legal

work for him at that time so obviously it's this payment. but he hasn't been able to definitively put that together. gentlemen, thank you very much. paul and andrew, great to have you with us today. so former president donald trump utilizes his time here in new york city to also hold a visit, they're calling it, in the bronx as he and president biden battle it out for black voter support. carl rove, jack brewer, and philippe ryanus coming up next. >> i'm probably the only black person to admit it, but i want trump back. >> president trump, even though he may not be a good guy, america did good. >> they try to arrest donald trump, but they don't really have anything on him.

>> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? safelite makes it easy. you can schedule in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust. >> vo: schedule free mobile service now at safelite.com. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ i'd like to take a moment to address my fellow veterans, because i know so many of you have served our country honorably. one of the benefits that we as a country give you as a veteran is the eligibility for a va loan, for up to 100 percent of your home■s value. if you need cash for your family call newdayusa. with automatic authority from the va we can say yes when banks say no. give us a call. $70,000. $70,000. that's a lot of money.

if you're a veteran homeowner, that's how much you can take out at newday. pay off your high rate credit cards and costly car loans, make home improvements, and put extra cash in the bank with our lower rate newday 100 va cash out loan. with home values high, now's the time to turn the equity in your home into the cash you need. ava: i was just feeling sick. and it was the worst day. mom was crying. i was sad. colton: i was diagnosed with rhabdomyosarcoma. brett: once we got the first initial hit, it was just straight tears, sickness in your stomach, just don't want to get up out of bed. joe: there's always that saying, well, you've got to look on the bright side of things. tell me what the bright side of childhood cancer is. lakesha: it's a long road. it's hard. but saint jude has gotten us through it.

narrator: saint jude children's research hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other life-threatening diseases. thanks to generous donors like you, families never receive a bill from saint jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food, so they can focus on helping their child live. ashley: without all of those donations, saint jude would not be able to do all of the exceptional work that they do. narrator: for just $19 a month, you'll help us continue the life-saving research and treatment these kids need. tiffany: no matter if it's a big business or just the grandmother that donates once a month, they are changing people's lives. and that's a big deal. narrator: join with your debit or credit card right now, and we'll send you this saint jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. nicole: our family is forever grateful for donations

big and small because it's completely changed our lives and it's given us a second chance. elizabeth stewart: saint jude's not going to stop until every single kid gets that chance to walk out of the doors of this hospital cancer-free. narrator: please, don't wait. call, go online, or scan the qr code below right now. [music playing] >> martha: breaking right now, we have movement in the courtroom. a huge update. the defense has just called robert costello. he is a former legal advisor. they didn't have a contract between them, but he was advising michael cohen. and he claims that cohen told him former president trump had nothing to do with the hush money payments. so his testimony is going to be very interesting. he's a very straight-forward

guy. he has told us that michael cohen told him over and over and over that he had nothing on trump. because robert costello said to him was, look, your only way out of this is if you have some truthful information you can turn on the former president. he said, i have nothing on the former president. nate foy joins us now live outside the courthouse. hi, nate. >> costello just got called to the stand of david sitko outlined the phone calls between michael cohen and costello. one of those phone calls lasted over an hour and a half. and earlier today cohen admitted during his cross-examination that he was well aware during those conversations that they were protected by his

attorney/client privilege. and remember cohen also earlier said he lied to costello because he thought costello would funnel information to trump. cohen just left the courthouse about ten minutes ago. cohen also received hundreds of thousands of dollars from other clients for very limited work. that's something that he talked about on the stand today. he also claims he did very limited work for trump in 2017. now, trump maintains that all payments to cohen for legitimate legal expenses, while cohen claims they were reimbursements for payments made to stormy daniels. they plan to call brad smith to the stand. judge marchand is allowing limited testimony from him. the judge worried that brad smith might provide his opinion rather than just the laws and

the interpretation of the laws, which is the judge's job. trump's team has not provided a definitive answer on whether or not trump will testify, but our legal experts inside the courtroom say that that is extremely doubtful. back out here live, martha, the summations according to the judge are expected next week. costello a highly-anticipated witness, so we'll see how long his time on the stand lasts. cohen, of course, took well over a week. >> martha: i would say that's about what the judge estimated, that cohen would take a week. as you say, it took a little bit longer than that. a short time ago we watched michael cohen leave the courthouse, get into the car with his wife and i believe one of his children as well was there today. i want to go back, nate, to what robert costello said when we spoke to him last week. >> my best guess is if they decide to put on a case, they

will call me. if they decide to do that. you i think that might be tuesday or wednesday if that happens. so my view is if you have additional damaging information, you should bring it forward. >> martha: we now know that is the decision that was made. there was a lot of speculation and even some advice on the part of some attorneys that we've heard from that said the defense just rest the case. that the prosecution hadn't met the burden of this case and hadn't proven the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. we saw, actually, an interesting break where the trump team went behind closed doors and spoke. i heard one of our attorney panelists say they may be talking to the former president about whether or not they should testify, whether or not they should rest, whether or not they should bring these other witnesses. it appears the outcome of the conversation was we're going to hear from robert costello.

>> i think from the trump's team perspective, it makes sense considering what costello said. i would imagine trump's team will be very direct in their conversations with him as he explains that even though cohen thought that those conversations were privileged, that he still told him that he took care of the stormy daniels deal by himself. and this comes after cohen has admitted to lying under oath several times and even admitted to stealing from his former client about $60,000. trump's team already discredited cohen, and he already had a tarnished image coming into this trial. but we'll see what costello says. >> martha: thank you very much, nate. judge marchand has sent the jury for a brief break. and as we said, the next defense witness will be robert costello. someone who's been a guest on this program several times.

he understands a lot of this situation very well. jonathan, what's your reaction to the news that the defense will indeed call witnesses and they just had one witness who's one of their paralegals who studied the phone records. and now we will hear from mr. costello himself >> well, i put on social media this morning from the courtroom that i thought there was an interesting line of questions coming from the defense. it seemed to me they were lying the foundation to call costello. the biggest problem is there's an email which refers to giuliani wanting to create a back-channel to cohen. many of us felt that was not worth doing. i think they waited to see how

that went on examination with cohen. i think they felt comfortable that they could blunt that with the prosecutors. so they are going to call them. i'm one of those risk-averse defense attorneys. if i think i've won a case, i'm going to stop. i think they've won this case. the problem is, this isn't an ordinary case. my view is even if there was a conviction, it would have to be overturned at this point. i think costello is a --

>> martha: you know, if i have to guess, having covered this former president for many years now, jonathan, i would anticipate that he may have told his defense, look, i saw bob costello, i've seen him a bunch on tv, he's fantastic, he's going to make the point for us, you absolutely have to put him up there. does that scenario seem plausible to you? >> i think it does seem plausible? this is the ultimate counter-puncher. you can always predict trump's moves. he does not walk away from a fight and does not let a blow land without returning one. the big issue is that team may be willing to take this risk, but my assumption is they're telling him, mr. president, please don't get on that stand. judge marchand closed any chance of trump testifying in that order he issued earlier.

he's basically going to allow the prosecutors to get into anything they want. after that order, it would be an act of lunacy for trump to get on the stand. costello is not a guy who will wilt under cross-examination. >> martha: and as you point out, the judge made it clear that if the former president took the stand, he would allow all kinds of things that have not been the -- has been in the jury's understanding of the situation. pretty much anything else they would be able to bring in and talk about if they had the opportunity to cross-examination him. it seems like that possibility was eliminated, and i think you're right about the kill that they think that costello can land, the kill blow. we have people in there, obviously, so we'll be hearing

every single thing that he says. trump attorney says costello will testify to rebut a pressure campaign by trump. so we'll see what happens there. jonathan, thank you very much. stay with us. one of our courtroom producers saying there were audible reactions in the overflow room where she was when robert costello was called to the stand. our breaking coverage continues as we wait for mr. costello's testimony just moments away. next. -ugh. -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪)

>> when you're suicidal, isn't

it easier to cooperate against donald trump than kill yourself? if he had truthful information, he would have given truthful information that day. he kept tells us he did this on his own. >> martha: so that was robert costello, former legal advisor to michael cohen who was just called by the defense to testify. and you see that judge marchand is asking the trump attorney if he thinks the pressure campaign theory is collateral, and he said not at all. essential, i would assume. so the importance of costello,

andrew, let me start with you. we just heard a little bit of what he's going to say. which he believed michael cohen was desperate. that he was desperate to rebuild his construction to former president trump and that he -- meaning that he would be willing to handle the stormy daniels thing on his own so he could go back and say, look, i took care of this for you and that trump would look favorably on that, i guess, is his belief. and he kept telling him over and over, costello, that trump didn't know anything about the stormy payment >> that's right. michael cohen was cross-examinationed on that very point, and he denied it to some extent. now what the defense wants to do is perfect that impeachment. what the judge is debating is whether this is collateral to the main issues. when you're cross-examining a witness, you're allowed to ask them about past incidents of lying. but you can't use another witness to essentially impeach that or come in to say the

opposite unless the issue that they were actually attacked on is not collateral. so you can attack them on outer-perimeter stuff but then you don't get additional witnesses. so the judge is looking at how central to the case is that very point and should they be allowed to impeach that issue. >> martha: costello says there's another witness. i don't know if they will call this other person. another person in this room who heard michael cohen, if this is connect, saying he had nothing. he says over and over again he has nothing. >> cohen is almost by definition telling the truth because he's speaking to his lawyer. at that point in the mind set of attorney/client privilege. he has no reason to lie. at that point when he's

suicidal, he's likely telling the truth. the segue into the earlier issue, i don't see how marchand could rule this is a collateral issue. i don't see how that's going to fly, and it's no accident, in my opinion, that costello was testifying in congress simultaneous with cohen being on the stand. i hope he comes in and says his piece. i have to tell you, at that point i think this prosecution is in real trouble. >> so michael cohen -- and i imagine on redirect they're going to say that he was not representing him and that cohen during this conversation with michael costello was worried. that he thought costello came to

see him as a back channel. that rudy giuliani said, you can talk through him. and he will argue that he did not want to give any dirt on the former president because it would go right back. that's what he already testified. >> michael cohen said he was talking to costello through the idea of a potential representation. he believed it to be attorney/client privilege. now michael cohen has essentially waived that privilege. you don't lie to an attorney in that setting believing you have the privilege and it's not going anywhere. and michael cohen saying he was thinking of committing suicide, throwing himself off a building in those days. so he was going to go seek help from costello. what can i do.

costello said just give me something on trump and you can be out of this by the end of the week. cohen was obviously going to him for help. he trusted costello at that moment, and what he said in those moments has real truth to it. >> martha: it feels like it adds up that way, and costello also had another person from his law firm who heard these conversations as well. whether or not we'll hear from that person remains to be seen. let's bring in jonathan. right before the prosecution rested, they asked cohen again about the first big bombshell, which was the scheiler conversation that lasted 90 minutes. cohen says that was the phone call where i knew trump and scheiller would be together, and i wanted to convey the message that i had taken care of business.

but all around that are text messages in regard to a 14-year-old boy who was harassing michael cohen. the argument is that they didn't ever talk about stormy daniels in that phone conversation. but on the redirect, cohen said that indeed he did. he said that he handled the matter of the prank caller and then he spoke to trump about the daniels matter. that's what the jury heard. what do you make of that exchange? >> well, it's utterly implausible and that's the reason most people feel he committed perjury earlier. the phone call is only about a minute and a half. the text preceding the phone call was the body guard saying, why don't you give me a phone call about this kid harassing. a very quick call, and then there was a follow-up text that basically reaffirmed what they talked about. and the prosecutors are trying to suggest that in the middle of all this, the bodyguard turned to trump and that they spoke for

a few seconds about a matter of great importance. it's not very plausible. so they did the best they could to rehabilitate that. i think the reason you're seeing costello go forward is the entirety of the day involved -- most of these issues have gone against the defense. judge marchand has continued to allow the prosecutors and then michael cohen himself to refer to campaign finance violations. and all marchand does is give this rather weakly-worded instruction that says, disregard that on the merits. it's more likely they'll disregard the instruction. so the defense may have decided to go with a sure-kill witness. they don't have a favorable judge, they have a risky jury, and costello is everything that cohen is not. he's a really good attorney, and he really is quite truthful.

he's also not someone that these prosecutors are going to be able to fold up. he was a prosecutor for about 40 years or so in new york. he's walked the walk. so there is nothing that will come out of that gate that robert costello has not seen before. >> martha: he understand that robert costello is being sworn in right now and that he will take the stand. the prosecution will have an opportunity to redirection. what do you expect will play out here, jonathan? >> i think the prosecution is going to try to pour into that breach of the email about where giuliani says, let's have a back channel. costello himself said that was a really dumb term to use and that it's going to suggest that costello was a made man, that he was put there by trump. cohen said he didn't trust him,

but cohen's testimony disassembled when blanch said, you said you just talked to him a couple of times. you talked to him 75 times, nine hours on the phone alone. so he was your attorney, right? and cohen admitted that he thought that these conversations were confidential. so cohen himself has undermined that, but that's what the prosecution is going to try to do. this guy is a heavyweight fighter. they may be punching over their class because he's going to be prepared for that. and his best argument is that i told cohen that if he wanted to ice pick trump, if he wanted to turn on trump, i could get him a great deal. and he says he has a witness to back him up. >> martha: and about that, michael cohen says, he was testing me. i could tell he was testing my loyalty and that's why he never signed a retainer. i'm just trying to look at both

sides of this and what we're likely to hear on the other side. he said that costello showed up with some kind of retainer agreement and he didn't want to sign it. he said, i'm not going to sign that tonight. but i guess they talked 75 times for nine hours and cohen never paid him; is that your understanding? >> yeah. i had to suppress a laugh when you said "i didn't sign a retainer because i didn't trust him". you had nine hours of conversation and 75 calls. but also cohen didn't have his own basic agreement. he didn't do a lot of things regular attorneys do. that's why he's disbarred. >> martha: jonathan, thank you very much. we are starting to get some of what's going on in there.

i just want a final thought here from our panel. we understand that cohen is testifying -- that costello is testifying, pardon me. that cohen was, quote, absolutely manic during the meeting. we spoke to him about that. he said he was suicidal, he didn't know what to do. he felt terrible that he no longer had this personal relationship with then president trump. that they called each other all the time. he was cut out, didn't get a job in washington. costello is a straight-shooter, and i expect we're going to hear a lot of what we heard when he spoke to us here >> remember, just to advance the story a little bit, let's think beyond this case. let's say the judge really constrains what costello can do.

costello is a walking quote machine. you've seen him on the air. this is a narrative for donald trump post-trial. which is they constrained my best guy. i had a witness who could come in here to completely undermine cohen, and the judge wouldn't let me do it. outside of new york, they see this. >> martha: and costello saying cohen said over and over again that he has nothing on donald trump. >> they said earlier today that they expected just a few witnesses and that they could rest by the end of the day. that means donald trump's not going to testify. he doesn't need to testify. the jury's already heard what he's had to say way back in 2016 and 2017. those statements are already in

evidence in one way or another. this is a major bomb that the defense is cleaning up and making sure this is the final thing the jury's left with. the prosecutor gets a rebuttal case only for the limited things the defense brought in. >> martha: so the prosecution can only deal on redirect with the specific things that costello has just testified to. and we see that bove is saying trump said numerous times he knew nothing of the payment to stormy daniels. gentlemen, thank you very much. paul, andrew, great to have you both here. a lot of breaking news this afternoon. that's "the story" for this monday. the story moves on with this trial, folks. we are getting down to the wire. >> the tri