good morning and welcome to friday morning with extended bail here on gb news and we've got a busy show for you today. indeedifs got a busy show for you today. indeed it's been a big week in politics from the what's up leeks to party chair sue gray

being appointed as chief of staff for keir starmer. be staff for keir starmer. we'll be looking into the rights and wrongs of all this with chris hope, editor the hope, associate editor of the telegraph. paper that broke telegraph. the paper that broke the files the lockdown files on broadcaster grimes and broadcaster darren grimes and does prison work . we'll be does prison work. we'll be debating that issue with the journalist who thinks that prisons do work and a barrister who thinks don't . in fact, who thinks they don't. in fact, she says it's not radical to close them. well, to some of us, it is an ethnic minority has been overrepresented on tv and in advert a yougov poll suggests that many people think they are . is this the case.7 does it matter .7 and just about this matter? and just about this morning, we want to hear from you. get involved with the you. so get involved with the show. us at gb views at show. email us at gb views at gbnews.uk or tweet is itv news. but before all of this, the latest headlines with rhiannon . latest headlines with rhiannon. so thank you. good morning. it's 10:02. your top stories from the gb newsroom. conservative mp

jacob rees—mogg is calling for a proper inquiry into sue grey's appointment as keir starmer's, new chief of staff. the senior civil servant led an independent investigation into partygate, but it was announced yesterday that she was leaving the civil service to join the labour party . allies of boris johnson have condemned her new role with the tory party chair, calling it inappropriate. mr. rees—mogg says the appointment invalidates her report into lockdown breaches at number 10. former mp accepted her two reports on the strict understanding that she was impartial and not now looks wrong . no confidence can be wrong. no confidence can be placed in the evidence she secured or past the police. so instead there should be an investigation into her and to her appointment. we should have an inquiry into what she has donein an inquiry into what she has done in her contacts with labour while been civil while she's been a civil servant, particularly with servant, particularly those with the office of the leader of the opposition. further leaked whatsapp messages by matt hancock suggest his team asked

if they could lock up nigel farage for being a pub hooligan and breaking lockdown rules . the and breaking lockdown rules. the messages revealed by the telegraph were allegedly sent in 2020 after mr. farage shared a video of himself drinking at a pub a fortnight earlier. he was at a trump rally in the us under covid lockdown rules. anyone coming to the to england from abroad was required to quarantine for 14 days or face a £1,000 fine. at the time, mr. farage said he wasn't breaking quarantine rules . however, he quarantine rules. however, he has since said he probably was . has since said he probably was. what i was photographed that day, the pubs open. had i reached the full 14 days? well it was a bit nip and tuck, i think. prof hopefully i haven't quite reached the time. i always made sure i used hand sanitiser . i always kept my distance from people . i have to say bad laws. people. i have to say bad laws. bad laws make people lawbreakers

. constance marten and mark gordon will appear in court this morning after the remains of a baby were found in brighton . the baby were found in brighton. the pair have been charged with gross negligence, manslaughter , gross negligence, manslaughter, concealing the birth of a child and perverting the course of justice. the body of a newborn was found in an area of woodland in holland. bury on wednesday after a two day search. the couple who were arrested on monday will appear at crawley magistrates court later in the hsz magistrates court later in the hs2 project. could be delayed in an attempt to kerb rising costs, according to the project's chief executive. the line is supposed to provide a fast rail service between london and manchester, but there are reports that may no longer run to its planned terminal . no longer run to its planned terminal. euston as a cost saving measure. the project's chief executive now says the impact of inflation means they're having to look at ways of reducing costs further , of reducing costs further, including the timing and phasing of the project . mourners will of the project. mourners will today pay their respects to leah

croucher, whose body was found in a house in milton keynes four years after she disappeared . a years after she disappeared. a cortege for the 19 year old will pass through first, and a public funeral procession. thames valley police found human remains at a property last october over following a tip off from the public . ms. croucher from the public. ms. croucher was last seen walking to work in february 2019. neil maxwell was found dead two months after ms. crouch's disappearance. he remains the only suspect in the case and it's been recommended. mp neil coyle be suspended from the house of commons after he was found to have breached parliament's bullying and harassment policy . in parliament's bullying and harassment policy. in a report, the independent expert panel has recommend did a five day suspension for the labour politician after reports of a foul mouthed and drunk abuse of another mp. assistant in another instance, he was accused of bullying and harassing a parliamentary journalist . both

parliamentary journalist. both instances occurred in stranger's fall at the commons and it may well be march , but a cold well be march, but a cold weather alerts being issued as wintry showers and freezing temperatures are expected across england next week . the uk health england next week. the uk health security agency says very cold air will spread across the uk from monday night, bringing with it snow and a risk of ice. the cold snap is expected to last until midnight on wednesday . so until midnight on wednesday. so wrap up warm . this is gb news wrap up warm. this is gb news will bring in more as it happens. now, though, it's back to esther and philip . to esther and philip. telegraph actress hope as well as broadcaster darren grimes. so. good morning to you both. and what a week it's been for you, chris. a bit. don't mind me

saying on the telegraph paper, we've got to start there with the leaks. those whatsapp leaks. why did you print it? was it right? why did isabel come to you? do you have postponement for paper? for putting these things on? for example ? there's things on? for example? there's so much. there's so much you need to tell us now to worry about. so it's an amazing scoop, an amazing public interest exercise, 100,000 whatsapp messages. give it us by isabel oakeshott from matt hancock first officer. she got them from him when she worked on the book. i think you're seeing by the coverage wall to wall coverage why is a real hunger why it matters is a real hunger out there to know what happened, why it happened the why it happened with the government to require government response to require it some sets some has it some it sets some has running. i think if nothing else that should got rocket boosters under inquiry by lady under the inquiry by lady hallett which is going through very slowly different modules in the on who knew what, the module on who knew what, when , when it starts so much when, when it starts so much later this year. i think it's really important. out really important. it gets out quickly, i mean, she quickly, which i mean, was she right this? isabel

right to do this? was isabel oakeshott do this? oakeshott right to do this? i mean she says it's good. mean she she says it's good. journalist you're a journalist. is dishonourable betrayal is it a dishonourable betrayal of good of a confidence or is it good journalism in which which i think is brilliant journalism? i think is brilliant journalism? i think it overwhelmingly has a massive public interest. it would done the same would have done the same thing if you would been in her if you would have been in her shoes, would the shoes, you would have done the same i think i would same wages up. i think i would have done i think i look back at things like the expenses things like the mp expenses scandal, worked on in scandal, which i worked on in the bunker, intense period the bunker, an intense period back in 2009 and then the information to us because information came to us because people redacting people unhappy about redacting out personal details, which were embarrassing for employees rather personal rather than just personal identifiers that came to us and that person motivation , who i that person motivation, who i never met or spoke to, was similar to what isabel had. she looked information and felt look , people are people are moving on their lives. people are dying now who will know the answers? people want to get on their people want to get on with their lives. there's no evidence lives. then there's no evidence it be done quickly. there it should be done quickly. there is some redactions happening already this inquiry. already as part of this inquiry. there's about that. there's concern about that. i think an attempt to get think it's an attempt to get this conversation going that's

what's happened. david, what do you what do i mean? i find you do? what do i mean? i find it i mean, i'm i'm sort of in both camps and i, i feel there's something not quite right about what isabel oakeshott's done in terms of betraying that confidence. but she signed a contract . she did equally. i confidence. but she signed a contract. she did equally. i i'm struggling to find any sympathy for matt hancock. of course, he basically betrayed his colleagues confidence by releasing all these whatsapp messages . so it's no good releasing all these whatsapp messages. so it's no good him now bellyaching that now his confidence has been breached. says which side of the well. absolutely mean, matt hancock absolutely i mean, matt hancock is world acting is going about the world acting like these days. he like a cardassian these days. he knows about privacy. i don't knows about privacy. i don't know where he's at on that, but i actually think isabel has done absolutely the right thing here because don't have any because i don't have any confidence . i don't know about confidence. i don't know about you guys in this covid inquiry actually getting into the nitty gritty in the way in which isabel has released all of these messages. we know what the main figures in this psychodrama that was lockdown period actually was the lockdown period actually thought . and actually boris's

thought. and actually boris's instincts to were totally right. he was right on this. he kept questioning the date and the evidence and saying, well, hang on a minute. i'm not sure that's actually what you're suggesting. it says and he was pushed back. it says and he was pushed back. i wish he'd been a little bit more bold and brave and actually pushed back against the consensus, which , you know, must consensus, which, you know, must have been overwhelming . it's an have been overwhelming. it's an interesting point there about the covid inquiry, and i wondered whether this was a motivating factor for isabel to release these whatsapp messages, because i've even written a question who is going to be the witnesses or how were you actually doing it ? how the actually doing it? how would the modules put in place? and it seems that the people going before the inquiry, all the people who were sort of part of that groupthink who wanted the lockdown . so i wondered, was lockdown. so i wondered, was this isabel saying, look, we're never going to have a proper inquiry and we need it sooner rather than later? is that a defence for. and i think it is and i think she would make that argument herself. esther, i think should maybe think you should maybe do

isabel's us, but honestly isabel's pr for us, but honestly isabel's pr for us, but honestly i think she she would make that case because of the fact that i genuinely do not believe that the consensus of the civil service who are going to be wanting to cover their own backs on this, the politicians , as you on this, the politicians, as you know, of course, they're not going to actually accept wrongdoing in any of this, even though nhs totally on though we see the nhs totally on its knees now as a direct consequence of the three lockdowns that we had in britain, excess death through the roof, darren says, you know that boris had good instincts here, but does it not prove a weakness with that he weakness with boris that he didn't follow through with what he wants to do? who did he take as his advisers and who was the team around him? well, hennigan wrote this modelling is wrote and said this modelling is wrong and it's out of date and we shouldn't go into this. it's quite though, in quite hard, though, in government. challenging government. isn't it challenging from coming experts as from you coming from experts as concerns the legal concerns about leaving the legal hook? this wrong, hook? if you get this wrong, people esther, of people might die. esther, of course, one knew what course, because no one knew what the of at the the seriousness of covid at the very beginning. is the very beginning. this is the second lockdown we're talking very beginning. this is the secorthisckdown we're talking very beginning. this is the secorthis goes,n we're talking very beginning. this is the secorthis goes, yes, 're talking very beginning. this is the secorthis goes, yes, when king very beginning. this is the secorthis goes, yes, when it1g very beginning. this is the

secorthis goes, yes, when it was now. this goes, yes, when it was more lot more by more understood a lot more by that. right. the thing is that. that's right. the thing is that. that's right. the thing is that what what what these revelations have shown is what some suspected along. some of us suspected all along. those who voted against those of us who voted against the that the lockdowns at the time that we weren't following the science. were science. actually, these were not decisions. they not scientific decisions. they were political i mean , were political deceit. i mean, you example, the rule you know, for example, the rule of we knew was never of six, we knew was never a scientific decision because, i mean, how can it be a scientific dinner at 10 pm. curfew was as no the but now no science behind the but now what seeing is that what we're seeing here is that none of the decisions were really science based, whether they decisions. really science based, whether they no, decisions. really science based, whether they no, think decisions. really science based, whether they no, think a decisions. really science based, whether they no, think a lot:isions. really science based, whether they no, think a lot ofons. really science based, whether they no, think a lot of them well, no, i think a lot of them were. the edges, were. but around the edges, there one. well, those there were one. well, those issues, those schools issues, those are the schools are there a science are clear. there was a science based where in getting people to wear masks. well questioning this done this was all that was done because nicola sturgeon was doing because they doing it, not because they thought it was. well, i think if you step back, what's you take a step back, what's interesting, is the valuable interesting, why is the valuable nature of this that we're not nature of this is that we're not doing a snapshot what's out. doing a snapshot of what's out. so 20 exchanges to so we're doing 20 exchanges to get the contain of was get the contain of what was going on. i think someone like whiteley comes across very well off she's always quietly off and she's always quietly

saying matt hancock, are you saying to matt hancock, are you sure about why you dividing spouses homes? why not spouses in care homes? why not allowing children, why children part of the group of six we're not means that big families on their own and can't see other families. and she's gently trying this, the trying to say this, that the other you've other looks to me like you've got these egos on top of got these big egos on top of government. gavin williamson bashing heads with with matt hancock going the scenes. hancock going behind the scenes. he's to steer it he's gently trying to steer it towards more with towards being more human with the of course , the policy. now, of course, bashing was the bashing heads yesterday was the conservative day to parliamentary politics. we both are. i was at michael's tissue and see where he is. yes, i was in i was at a friend's funeral. of course, it was more important to be in my constituency, to be honest. any any snippets of honest. but any any snippets of gossip i gossip from the relationship, i think levido did some good think isaac levido did some good polling there, which is interesting because interesting for you because the last polling we had, the telegraph labour 500 seats. telegraph gave labour 500 seats. if an election were held tomorrow. levido who will tomorrow. isaac levido who will be running an election strategy for party the next for your party in the next election? thinks that the election? he thinks that the labour the tories would win 282 seats. we still have somewhat down 78. he's down from where

you are at the moment, but not as bad as it might be. so it look like more like hung parliament territory, which is which which is a good which is which is a good result by way, because obviously by the way, because obviously phil of the blue phil and i said of the blue colour group and so when they were doing the red ball and you know, the blue wall and know, and the blue wall and they've campaigning there, they've been campaigning there, we were and was we were doing that and he was following yeah, following it with us. yeah, i actually probably actually thought it's probably best from the away best i stayed away from the away day because the last conservative away day, which was this this is this is folklore now this is conservative was in conservative which was in the late that one, 20, 20, late nineties that one, 20, 20, 2040, david cameron had an away day well what happened was day and well what happened was then this away this away that if you this when the night you know this day when the night before away got before the away day i got a phone call from ed llewellyn, who was david cameron's chief of staff, after the that staff, after the dinner that we were having. want were all having. but we want a bit of fun. and so we're going to have a game of just a minute raised. brandreth was brought into and so he into hal's right. and so he said, would you be on the panel? i knew this was day . i tried to i knew this was day. i tried to call the prime minister's office. will you go on the panel

with him? so there was there was me, william hague, eric pickles, to raise coffee, and keith simpson on this panel forjust a simpson on this panel for just a minute. and we would discuss what it was, something about how to get promoted. and of course, i it goes it was i came to me it goes it was about getting promoted and i just said in this just a minute. i well, don't really i said, well, i don't really know about getting promoted know much about getting promoted because never have been booked because i never have been booked for my observations, my observation, seems to me that observation, it seems to me that the way to promoted is the best way to get promoted is to as far george osborne's to crawl as far george osborne's backside and possibly get will be careful if you do that because you likely to run into matt hancock . oh my little. i'm matt hancock. oh my little. i'm not joking. the whole room. yes i mean, david cameron's really on the floor and the people not laughing with my mark. did you speak without reputation ? speak without reputation? hesitation? i did. i got to that point, but then literally have to stop because i feel so . the to stop because i feel so. the next morning at breakfast, david comes in. i have and stop laughing about probably best i need to know that meant to be secret it became a double page

spread papers that the next day. yeah so it's public vessels unequal to the story i think we've got a touch on absolutely so great story . well now as a so great story. well now as a form of new and new, my concern my concern if for you , if you my concern if for you, if you guys would be in the tory party is what does she know? she knows everything about you, esther. when you became culture secretary, you given your secretary, you have given your full to her and how full life story to her and how how information is used or not used worry for used is a real worry for conservatives. well, i think what also now , people what it also does now, people will start looking at her past judgements, her past advice. it's gone on. obviously, people are talking about partygate. what really impartial. and what she's really impartial. and i a story. when i can tell you a story. when i became secretary of state for the department for work and pensions as i arrive, pensions and as i arrive, nothing me but the nothing to do with me but the permanent secretary was retiring, arrived the retiring, so i arrived on the thursday . he was retiring, so i arrived on the thursday. he was going the following week i had to look following week and i had to look for permanent secretary. for a new permanent secretary. at time there wasn't any at the time there wasn't any fully formed and this the fully formed and this was the biggest so biggest spending department. so it to be because we

it didn't have to be because we got new next departments got new sort of next departments and people gone and other things people had gone to. somebody, but he to. so i got somebody, but he was so brand new, very good. but brand new. so they thought we might need the role might need to shed the role because big role because it was such a big role and get somebody with financial back, you know, a background . back, you know, a background. and put forward somebody and so they put forward somebody called johnson nick called nick johnson or nick joyce and you might not know who that but know rachel that is, but i know rachel reeves husband with a different name. so i went for advice and i said, oh, can i question this? can i question the mp partiality that i'm before the select committee shortly of which rachel chairing and rachel reeves is chairing and she'd also been the shadow secretary of state for dwp and the person who was the enforcer who i had to go to was sue gray. and i said, i think there's a problem. i wouldn't want to do it . i have somebody it. can i not have somebody else? she said, absolutely not. this the i said, what this is the man. i said, what about talk? what about about pillow talk? what about for select committee? won't for the select committee? won't happen. know. but happen. it isn't, you know. but you have to have them. so basically this trap basically she imposed this trap on us and all i'm saying is what happened? that was the reality

that and now people need to ask will they will be asking all of the justices. i mean, she's seen as the paragon of virtue, isn't she, the civil service? and what we mean, last year, sue we will i mean, last year, sue grace, weightless sue gray decides she's the judgement of solomon last year and solomon all of last year and partygate. don't think she's partygate. i don't think she's required service required under the civil service code , not just this guy's code, not just this guy's anything who she knows, but anybody. once she leaves and is sure stick that. but sure she'll stick to that. but the problem is it does cast aspersions on the whole operation. how would anyone operation. and how would anyone get you're going in now get when you're going in now you're your life you're giving your whole life story and you as a minister story out and you as a minister go doing go into everything. i was doing was straight conferences and was all straight conferences and everything. how i would you would hold things back now would you hold things back now if the government if you were back the government out, bob? out, would you hold things, bob? you don't think you you see, i don't think you can do that. wanting the best do that. you wanting the best decision, but the public can consent. i'm only going give consent. i'm only going to give you bit of information you a little bit of information and not going challenge and i'm not going to challenge your decisions. what we're saying in saying this now, we've in lockdown. to challenge lockdown. you need to challenge decisions open decisions and have open conversation. i do. i do. conversation. and i do. i do. i do understand this. why she's taken this job, because, of

course, are course, i mean, labour are likely to win the next election. and would very senior and she would be a very senior official in a labour official serve in a labour government. so why does need government. so why does she need it? need to take it? why does she need to take this perhaps she's this job? well, perhaps she's got certain penchant for the got a certain penchant for the labour think that's labour party. i think that's what's been revealed all of what's been revealed in all of this. with sir keir this. friends with sir keir starmer into the starmer going back into the garden. you, right. garden. so i know you, right. this she's above and beyond this says she's above and beyond the labour absolutely sort the labour and absolutely sort of reputation and of trashing the reputation and a future it's going to run. future job. it's going to run. this story is going to be fine. and do you think your leader should ban sue gray from taking this job over? two years this job over? it's two years because we're talking because the what we're talking about because about after the break, because obviously she's obviously there's a cobr. she's got apply for jobs got to you know, apply for jobs you go to we've got to do you to go to we've got to do told your fellow team what you're welcome would want to you're welcome would you want to be would want to be there? why would you want to stay anyway ? we want stay there now anyway? we want to hear from you. don't forget email whatever. email us, tweeters, whatever. get with us about those get in touch with us about those stories. anyway coming up after the we'll talking the break, we'll be talking to mp about issue mp mark fletcher about an issue that raised in the house of that he's raised in the house of commons the commons this week regarding the ability offenders to ability of sex offenders to change names anyway . yeah,

change their names anyway. yeah, you to you

come back. it's almost 1023 now. a major loophole that has allowed sex offenders like rose west, vanessa george and ian huntley to change their names has been raised in the house of commons this week. yes, the bill was put before parliament demanding on the sex demanding that those on the sex offenders no right offenders register have no right to their names and they to change their names and they face of disappear face hundreds of disappear individuals. joining us now to discuss this is mp mark fletcher , who proposed the bill. so mark, do you want to say why why you think this is such an important bill? why are you bringing it forward? because i mean, i came to this from a constituent's casework. and fortunately something horrific happened to this constituent when they were very young. the offender was found and is in prison, but the constituents came to me because this offender

wants to change their name. and i thought this couldn't possibly be true. i'll be honest, i was a bit sort of surprised. but when i started to look into it, it's actually a much, much bigger problem. and if you look at the research that the safeguarding alliance have done in this area, what find is not what you'll find is that not only is very easy to change only is it very easy to change your name, the onus is on your name, but the onus is on the offender to notify the the sex offender to notify the police any change of records police of any change of records and if you look at the data of how many people are now slipping through the net, it's a really quite issue. so they're quite scary issue. so they're changing the name and not telling the police. that's basically the issue. but i mean, presumably the same could apply if they changed their address. and they obviously have to notify of where they notify the police of where they now i mean , you now live in. so, i mean, you can't stop people from moving house. so is there any real, real difference if this was a requirement on them to notify the police of all these things? well, as you say, there is a notification requirement and the onusis notification requirement and the onus is on offender. the onus is on the offender. the difficulty know difficulty is if you don't know what you're looking for, at what name you're looking for, at least if they keep the same name

and move the address, have and move the address, you have something on. the something to go on. the difficulty is that are difficulty is that if you are assuming a new identity, you can difficulty is that if you are assoniing a new identity, you can difficulty is that if you are asson to; a new identity, you can difficulty is that if you are asson to receive identity, you can difficulty is that if you are asson to receive new tity, you can difficulty is that if you are asson to receive new documentan go on to receive new document and be that a new passport , a and be that a new passport, a new driver's licence, or in some cases , a clean check , which cases, a clean dbs check, which allows you to work in schools . allows you to work in schools. and this is that this is a significant issue that is based on chimed in their economy. that's what i was going when you change your name. basically what you're saying is not just change your name. so you're going to have, you know, fashionable people that know you'll expose. that's say you're that's what you say you're getting rid of all of that knowledge yet you get knowledge about you. yet you get rid record. really rid of your record. i'm really surprised that the even on the dbs checks, we're surely dbs checks, which we're surely must trigger and see what happened for that person before their must if their name checks must if they're children they're working with children must there surely ? you must must be there surely? you would . and unfortunately would hope so. and unfortunately it is. and this is the situation that i found myself in. i think it's what would describe as it's what i would describe as a head banger, because further head banger, because the further you this , the more the you go into this, the more the issues arise. and i've spent sort of two months looking at

this from a lot of different directions. i directions. and again, i mentioned safeguarding mentioned the safeguarding alliance research, alliance and their research, but they finding they are finding previous offenders working in schools offenders now working in schools and elsewhere . and i think, you and elsewhere. and i think, you know, most people would be absolutely horrified to realise that loophole exists. and that this loophole exists. and that's why been working so that's why i've been working so hard it be, i think, hard on so can it be, i think, which may be hope i was which may be chris hope i was alluding to a sort of a computer change, so at least you can say the name came in whatever year it was. obviously i'm much older than that. what was it before? so just needs technical so it just needs a technical change computer system or change on the computer system or does this legislation ? does it need this legislation? well, there's more than one way to skin a cat. and there was a backbench business debate yesterday in which i said i'm pretty solutions agnostic. we know problem , but how know there's a problem, but how we solve it is a different thing . and there are a couple of ways they might sort of propose only an outright ban, but wouldn't an outright ban, but i wouldn't have much faith in the have as much faith in the systems that we are talking about to be able to capture all of this data and to keep it together. think people together. i think when people sort of talk about the sex

offenders as it's offenders register as if it's something super and, you something that is super and, you know, it's a sort of national system. it isn't really . you system. it isn't really. you have 43 different versions of the sex offenders register that is regionalised and sits with each of these laws . and actually each of these laws. and actually there is a central system, but data has to be uploaded into a once a year. and so , you know, once a year. and so, you know, l, once a year. and so, you know, i, i think there is probably a technical way around it and that's very much what sarah champion is, is sort of arguing for who's the labour mp for rotherham . but i think actually rotherham. but i think actually it is a much more profound change that needs to happen . i change that needs to happen. i mean i think you've got to go to support bill. i would hope support your bill. i would hope so , because we have a victims so, because we have a victims bill is coming up very bill that is coming up very soon. it will be an soon. and i think it will be an absolute slap in the face to victims, be it my constituent or anyone else's. didn't have anyone else's. if we didn't have this there and i to say, this in there and i have to say, you know, the last thing that this offender said to this that the offender said to my constituent you ever my constituent is if you ever tell anyone , i will come and tell anyone, i will come and find you . and that is why find you. and that is why they're so scared with the name

change, is that if they don't know where they are who know where they are and who they are, they're that they are, they're worried that they will to them. and will come back to them. and i think that is a horrific thing to live with. so if the government don't bring forward their along the their proposal is along the lines you solutions lines you say you solutions agnostic. don't bring agnostic. but if you don't bring forward with forward something to deal with this what you're saying this issue is what you're saying to there you're going to to me there that you're going to be . you'll put forward be a point. you'll put forward an amendment to the victims bill in to cover this and in order to cover this and presumably people presumably with people like sarah labour sarah champion on the labour side, you've enough side, you've got enough cross—party potentially cross—party support potentially to force government into the to force the government into the conversation . yes, i is conversation. yes, i think is the short answer to that. i think we have, you know, a very reasonable justice secretary who i think will understand the arguments this . and i'm arguments about this. and i'm very keen meeting with him next week to have a discussion about it. but if the government isn't in the right place on this and isn't looking for a solution that i think is long needed, you know, we have in know, the system that we have in this country came out of the birth chart inquiry in 2004 after what ian huntley did and those horrific crimes. but it is with making clear that the

virtual inquiry highlighted name changes as a problem . that's 20 changes as a problem. that's 20 years ago. are you are you going to be are you going to be cutting across the transgender campaigners, though , on this? campaigners, though, on this? because, course, they'll because, of course, they'll say, well, changes their well, if somebody changes their genden well, if somebody changes their gender, got every gender, then they've got every right to change the name, whereas you'd saying, whereas you'd be saying, well, i'm you've previous sex i'm sorry, you've a previous sex offender, can't change your offender, you can't change your name. ready battle it name. are you ready to battle it out with the trans out with the with the trans lobby? my focus is on sex offenders and preventing them from changing their name. i don't care about any the don't care about any of the other characteristics that are involved. if you're on the sex offenders register have offenders register and have committed then that's committed a crime, then that's my know want marks my central, you know want marks also raise this now in also done is raise this now in the public arena because i bet most people a bit like chris they're as shocked at this this was happening anyway i think was happening anyway so i think pubuc was happening anyway so i think public political opinion public opinion political opinion will be on isn't the person's rights in this conversation all about the victims? you start with victims work with the victims and work backwards. fine, don't backwards. you'll be fine, don't you think? i mean, forget everyone else. it's the victims are concerned. that's are a risk or concerned. that's what we had what counts. well, we had a

again, we had the backbench business and business debate yesterday, and there of situations there are a number of situations that up in which it really that came up in which it really seems who are the seems like those who are the offenders greater rights seems like those who are the offenthe; greater rights seems like those who are the offenthe public. ireater rights seems like those who are the offenthe public. andzr rights seems like those who are the offenthe public. and thejhts than the public. and the victims. and that does not feel like the wrong way round to me. fletcher much indeed for fletcher very much indeed for coming in. coming up with the prison , said to be overflowing prison, said to be overflowing and everybody says on the rise. we'll be debating whether the prison system in the uk works as it stands. we've got somebody saying it does. we've got somebody saying it doesn't. maybe we should think about clothes in them crazy stuff. so don't go anywhere . good morning. don't go anywhere. good morning. it's exactly 1030. your top stories from the gb newsroom. conservative mp jacob rees—mogg is calling for a proper inquiry into sue grey's appointment as sickest . aam as new chief of sickest. aam as new chief of staff . the senior civil servant staff. the senior civil servant listen. independent investigation into partygate but it was announced yesterday that she was leaving the civil

service to join the labour party allies of boris johnson have condemned her new role with the tory party chair, calling it inappropriate . mr. rees—mogg inappropriate. mr. rees—mogg says the appointment invalidates her report into lockdown breaches at number 10. former mp accepted her two reports on the strict understanding that she was impartial and that now looks wrong . no confidence can be wrong. no confidence can be placed in the evidence she secured or passed the police. so instead there should be an investigation into her and to her appointment. we should have an inquiry into what she has donein an inquiry into what she has done in her contacts with labour while she's been a civil servant, particularly those with the office of the leader of the opposition. further leaked whatsapp messages by matt hancock suggest his team asked if they could lock up nigel farage for being a pup hooligan and breaking lockdown rules. the messages revealed by the telegraph are already allegedly sent in 2020 after mr. farrar shared a video of himself

drinking at a pub a fortnight earlier. he was at a trump rally in the us under covid lockdown rules. anyone coming to england from abroad was required to quarantine for 14 days or face a £1,000 fine. at the time, mr. farrar said he wasn't breaking quarantine rules. however, he sent said he probably was constant . martin and mark gordon constant. martin and mark gordon are appearing in court this morning after the remains of a baby were found in brighton. the pair have been charged with gross negligence, manslaughter. conceding the birth of a child and perverting the course of justice. the body was a newborn . it was found in an area of woodland in hungary on wednesday after a two day search. the couple who were arrested on monday will appear at crawley magistrates court and a cold weather alert is being issued as wintry showers and freezing temperatures are expected across england next week. the uk health security agency says very cold

air will spread across the uk from monday night, bringing snow and a risk of ice. it's set to last until midnight on wednesday . tv online and dab+ radio. this is gb news. don't go anywhere and fill it back in just a moment .

welcome back . now, we've had welcome back. now, we've had lots of you getting in touch with us this morning. phil do you want to read some of those calls? derek says full marks on. well done isabel oakeshott well done to isabel oakeshott for this absolute pitch for exposing this absolute pitch of he's thinking. if she of what he's thinking. if she kept this, she would kept quiet about this, she would have embroiled herself in this disgraceful up. she showed disgraceful cover up. she showed that journalist as that she's a true journalist as recognised the right of the pubuc recognised the right of the public know what works on the public to know what works on the power if she power point. i think if she hadnt

power point. i think if she hadn't forward, hadn't have come forward, i mean, obviously chris hope's going to say yes, it was important she forward. but important she came forward. but didn't you say she have didn't you say she could have embroiled much embroiled self in something much bigger? i bigger? well, absolutely. i mean, no idea matt mean, you have no idea how matt hancock react to hancock would actually react to the an nda of the breach of an nda of a non—disclosure agreement. right. so actually putting so she's actually putting herself risk releasing all herself at risk by releasing all of this information. but as i said earlier, i really don't think that this inquiry is going to actually expose anything that we really need to be discussing because this might happen again. right there might be another pandemic. how do we respond to what chris hope be saying that if she'd taken it to the times? well i love supporting journalism . oh, i love my job. journalism. oh, i love my job. well, believe he's actually . sue well, believe he's actually. sue says he does not take a covid inquiry to determine that the pandemic was not handled well. it was clear a few weeks it was clear within a few weeks which groups of the population were at risk from it. those groups should have been protected rest of protected and the rest of us should have gone to normal. should have gone back to normal. sunak and johnson need to give answers this answers as to why this did not happen. had thought, you

happen. i've had a thought, you know, because we set the know, because we set up the office appg group office across party appg group on recovery and on pandemic recovery and response . i'm going to ask her response. i'm going to ask her if she'll come and give evidence before it. oh yes. i got to do that to bring isabel in. so when we go and i'll keep you up to speed of what happens now, just thinking i'm this thinking out loud to do all this like i'm off it now. this week, the family of a woman who was killed by a strange former husband has been campaigning and has asked the deputy prime minister, dominic raab, him behind raab, to keep him behind bars, following proposed following his proposed release after serving 13 years of after only serving 13 years of his sentence . reports have also his sentence. reports have also suggested the public may be at risk as prisoners are set to be held in police custody cells as jails are approaching their maximum capacity. so made us maximum capacity. so it made us think, prison work at all? think, does prison work at all? join us now to discuss this is author and journalist stephen pollard . stephen, thank you for pollard. stephen, thank you for joining us. you wrote an article earlier this week basically repeating michael howard's mantra of the 1990s that the

prison worked so why do you say it works ? it's funny me. it was it works? it's funny me. it was 30 years ago that he said those words and shocked the kind of criminal justice establishment. but and those are just those two words still today . it shows how words still today. it shows how little we've really learned from the past three decades for . the the past three decades for. the saying those words still has the power to shock a kind of liberal establishment. if somebody is bold enough to say it. i mean , bold enough to say it. i mean, the terrible case of robert brown made me think he leave aside whether his sentence was correct . he was convicted of correct. he was convicted of manslaughter of a murder. he was sentenced to 26 years. now as we know, no one ever served the sentence . they're convicted of sentence. they're convicted of very, very , very, very rarely very, very, very, very rarely did the assumption is that having served 13 years, half the sentence , he will now be sentence, he will now be released or at least is eligible for parole . look, the problem is

for parole. look, the problem is quite apart from the campaign that the family of his of his wife, who he killed, has launched. wife, who he killed, has launched . the problem is, if you launched. the problem is, if you look at the statistic , since look at the statistic, since 2010, 129 people who were sentence to life imprisonment. this is people sentenced to a more severe sentence than robert brown have subsequently been released from prison and then gone on to commit another crime so bad that they were then sentenced to a second life imprisonment, which which shows that, you know, we're releasing too many people out from prison. pfison too many people out from prison. prison is not just about deterrent. prison is also about protecting the public. and we are clearly releasing too many people. but there's another aspect to this, which i think is underplayed , which is the whole underplayed, which is the whole explore notion of knife crime in recent years, the, you know , in

recent years, the, you know, in the last year that we've got figures available, which was march 20, 21 to march 20, 22. knife killer things were up by 19% year on year. knife killings up 19. and that doesn't even take account of the number of kids who you see or you hear of carrying knives, but not necessary . so committing another necessary. so committing another criminal offence . and the criminal offence. and the deterrent effect works in reverse too, because it doesn't just say, you know, if your if there's a large sentence for a crime, you might be deterred from killing it. the point is that if there's no sentence because the number of people who were convicted of a of a knife crime but actually sentenced to a custodial sentence is less than 30. stephen what the messages sent out, the message that was going to come in here. so obviously you've said what most of us all i'll tell you, the vast majority of the public believe no prison works. but for those people who say it doesn't

work, what it is, is an expensive to teach people expensive school to teach people how to do more crime and actually we need to close them down. what would you say to them? would i mean, i just think it's that it's drivel. i just think that argument utter nonsense argument is utter nonsense because know, as i because there's you know, as i say , there's aspects where say, there's two aspects where there's there's there's you know, there's another which another aspect of prison which we are failing at, which is the kind of rehabilitation aspect. you when you know, nobody knows when people prison works, we're people say prison works, we're not everything is not saying that everything is perfect the prisons perfect about the prisons system. from it. there's system. far from it. there's a huge amounts of with it. huge amounts of wrong with it. what saying that what we're saying is that the bafic what we're saying is that the basic concept of serious criminals being imprisoned is a sensible idea that helps you to tackle crime and indeed, this isn't just some you know, i'm not just tweeting my mouth off saying this. you look at the statistics often in the years after michael howard was home secretary . and the fact is that secretary. and the fact is that crime fell not just crime overall, but violent crime, the kind of crimes that we all fear fell . and we've gone away from fell. and we've gone away from that. fell. and we've gone away from that . we've forgotten the that. we've forgotten the lessons that we learn. back in

1993, state law to thank you very much, though now going to be joined by dr. felicity, garry case , who has previously case, who has previously questioned if we should be closing prisons in the uk and believes that they do more harm than good. do you want to explain yourself there? yes of course. prison doesn't work and the evidence is that we have the highest recidivate rates in europe in the uk, largely because prison doesn't work, because prison doesn't work, because we don't have decent rehabilitation processes . i'm rehabilitation processes. i'm all of the research , including all of the research, including the government's own research , the government's own research, demonstrates that prisons are hotbeds for creating recidivism and most importantly , prisons and most importantly, prisons are full of people who either have not committed crime or have a range of issues that could be addressed in other ways . so addressed in other ways. so people with mental health or neuro diversity or other vulnerable relatives that simply should not be there. and of

course , the traumatising effect course, the traumatising effect of being there means that they're more they're becoming more risk than they would be if we had alternative processes . we had alternative processes. felicity rachel was is wrong in what he says. and in fact , he what he says. and in fact, he was inconsistent, wasn't he ? it was inconsistent, wasn't he? it started with prisons that work and then went on the way across . felicity, you told us about government research. let me. i was looking last night that the reoffending rates for people who get sent to prison and what's quite clear from the from the official figures and this has been the case for years, is that the longer people spend in prison, the less likely they are to re—offend. so the figures are quite if people who serve quite clear if people who serve up months in prison, the up to six months in prison, the reoffending is 58.5. if reoffending rate is 58.5. if they serve 6 to 12 months in prison, it drops to 48.3. if they spend 1 to 2 years in prison, it drops to 32.5. if they go to two four years in

prison, it drops to 22. if they spend 4 to 10 years in prison, it drops to 14. and if spend over ten years in prison, the reoffending rate drops to 4. now the official figures. so the point is in prison, prison clearly works , doesn't it? if clearly works, doesn't it? if i was it seems to be the problem is, is that people aren't spending enough time in prison. so not at all. if you think about the first statistic that you gave us, people who go to prison for six months, those might be not serious might be therefore not serious offending and they might be people with children who lose their children lose their relationships, lose their houses . and in six months of which they probably serve less than six months, but in six months, their whole lives have fallen apart. they're then poor, homeless and have no opportunities . and we do that to opportunities. and we do that to a fault . too many people with a fault. too many people with significant, particularly people with mental health issues who struggle with privilege. can i stop that, phil? this is not

your area we're staying on right now. i'm not going to fill up prison. oh, okay . so we're not prison. oh, okay. so we're not allowed to ask you any question . and if you're just coming on here to give a monologue , we're here to give a monologue, we're actually here to ask questions and we've now talking about the bit that she was sort of alluding to. and i think, chris, ihope alluding to. and i think, chris, i hope you were a bit surprised there. you know, people were wrong, leigh, in prison or something or things weren't right and was easy to get right and it was too easy to get into prison. you've done all the figures on phil, how many figures on that, phil, how many times commit an times you have to commit an offence into prison? offence to get into prison? well, have done lots of well, i have done lots of research this the research in this field. the funny was, is that it's funny thing was, is that it's actually difficult to be actually very difficult to be sent to prison in the uk. you have to mean magistrates and judges a chance judges will give you a chance after after chances only after chance after chances only when they've tried everything else. have, you've either else. if you have, you've either got to be a very serious offender or a very persistent offender or a very persistent offender to prison. offender to get sent to prison. i asked a question in i actually asked a question in parliament once, was parliament once, which was how many proportion people many what proportion of people who committed over a hundred offences were sent to prison? and you know what? the figures

showed you go into court showed that if you go into court and you'd committed over a hundred previous convictions , hundred previous convictions, you statistically you were still statistically more likely not to be sent to prison than to be sent to prison. so this idea that it's easy get prison and is easy to get to prison and is very, it's very difficult . very, very it's very difficult. but we bring it. could we bring felicity, or . yes, felicity, garry back or. yes, here she is. so we were just having a conversation there. i hope you were hearing it, felicity. i know you didn't want to take a question from us, but maybe you've an answer to maybe you've got an answer to what we said there about, you know, in know, getting into prison. in the instance, you were the first instance, you were saying was wrong saying maybe it was wrong and too to easy get into prison and that sentencing council research in 2022 demonstrated that longer sentences have no deterrent to fact they all the good research shows that the general public really concerned about people in prison who shouldn't be there. people with mental health issues, neurodiversity , issues, neurodiversity, vulnerable women, traffic to people. so there's really

sensible research that shows that we are filling prisons up with people who need alternatives . and if we address alternatives. and if we address those or provided those alternatives , which i believe alternatives, which i believe would be a lengthy , what would would be a lengthy, what would they be? crime prevention ? well, they be? crime prevention? well, for example, we spend billions of pounds on prison , but we of pounds on prison, but we could be spending on mental health, addressing mental health issues. so i am also admitted in victoria and we have specialist courts , that's victoria in courts, that's victoria in australia we have specialist courts for people with addiction or mental health problems or other issues where alternatives include funding. well, i'll bnng include funding. well, i'll bring that by dr. felicity garrett. thank you very much , garrett. thank you very much, steve and paula. but i'll bring that into the studio. so would we be expend expanding mental health but take into account by judges, isn't it i mean, is looked at and we it's not, you know they recognise a limit in the number of spaces around

80,000. so in the prison estate you can't just lock everybody up . and that's maybe why as you say, phil , it's . and that's maybe why as you say, phil, it's a last resort. and going back to the and in going back to the original point of rule, robert brown, he can brown, the issue there is he can be automatically be released automatically without . the option without parole. the option opened to add, argues a victim as minister , and dominic raab, as minister, and dominic raab, the justice secretary, is to require parole board to require the parole board to review his release in november. and i think the honesty of sentencing is what you're raising and it's moved , by the raising and it's moved, by the way, to two thirds . now, after way, to two thirds. now, after two of your term, you two thirds of your term, you release rather than half release now rather than half your as well was when he your term as well was when he was sentenced. yeah now, the duke duchess of sussex duke and duchess of sussex have confirmed been confirmed that they've been asked their uk home asked to vacate their uk home just after harry's book just weeks after harry's book spare released. i'm not spare was released. i'm not saying that the two are connected. they're saying connected. they're just saying so. reports playing the so. various reports playing the move sanctioned by the king move was sanctioned by the king with on the grounds of with the home on the grounds of windsor castle reportedly being offered to prince andrew instead. well, joining us now to discuss this is gb news royal reporter cameron walker. so there you go, evicted , meant to there you go, evicted, meant to have been a letter of eviction.

wasn't the phone call wasn't just called up saying you it's an empty building. your fancy move in on letting somebody else live there . it was an official live there. it was an official letter. well, exactly. we've heard that when rumours started coming out that this was the case that they had indeed been kicked being kicked kicked out while being kicked out of frogmore cottage, buckingham maintains no buckingham palace maintains no comments to do with comments and anything to do with that seen as a private that would be seen as a private family matter. but as soon as you know, the united states wake family matter. but as soon as you i;now, the united states wake family matter. but as soon as youi suppose united states wake family matter. but as soon as youi suppose i gotzd states wake family matter. but as soon as youi suppose i got a states wake family matter. but as soon as youi suppose i got a messageake up, i suppose i got a message from the spokesperson for the duke and duchess of sussex, who confirms to me that they have indeed been asked to leave frogmore cottage and which clearly the timing , if reports clearly the timing, if reports are to be believed, is very significant here, because the king reportedly signed off on the crown estate he owns frogmore cottage. he signed off on their decision to kick harry and meghan out the day after prince harry's memoir was released, which clearly went into some detail of allegations against the queen consort, saying that she was leaking

stories to make her own public profile , which buckingham profile better, which buckingham palace has not commented on, and i to add , however, it i hasten to add, however, it clearly creates the sense that camilla was charles's bread line , which it appears has been crossed. and that's what mary's reporting this morning . crossed. and that's what mary's reporting this morning. is it not just the case that, you know, there's an empty property there? most of the time because they've obviously spent virtually all the time in america. needs somewhere america. andrew needs somewhere to obviously to go. here's an obviously option. let go in there. option. let andrew go in there. they don't really need it. rather than it being sort of a vindictive it's a vindictive thing. it's just a sensible , sensible solution move sensible, sensible solution move practical solution. and i think many supporters of the king would say that it is practical. they need to cut costs and royal lodges reportedly falling down a bit as problems, etc. so it's not really habitable for much longer. so the thing the thinking behind it, according to reports , is prince energy would reports, is prince energy would move into frogmore cottage reluctantly. and harry and meghan would no longer have a base in the uk because are no longer working royals. so

charles told them off , as charles told them to hop off, as it out and get over to it were, hop out and get over to the other side of the pond where they are. chris i know they already are. chris i know you. we change one thing? you. would we change one thing? it's not a cottage, right? it's a ten bedroom house with two oranges, garden and oranges, a vegetable garden and a studio. now down to a yoga studio. it's now down to four bedrooms with four bathrooms. not cottage. bathrooms. it's not a cottage. it's 5000 square feet. yeah, a cottage belize. sense of cottage in belize. the sense of the family as you go. the word royal family as you go. yeah, but it's a royal cottage. i guess it is , but. but, but i guess it is, but. but, but what i was going to say to you, i'd just say they didn't like it. they thought it was a bit too small for somebody who was used to sort of, i don't know, glamour and hollywood glamour. they didn't this place they didn't like this place today. didn't send prince today. we didn't send prince andrew, bearing mind lives andrew, bearing in mind he lives in royal lodge, a 31 bedroom mansion perhaps going to be mansion is perhaps going to be slightly concerned having slightly concerned of his having to move into a five bed property. frogmore cottage. well, let's talk about all people . so yeah, people's poll people. so yeah, people's poll about the charles meeting, ursula von der leyen and whether that was right or not. what did our people tell us with people

poll? people's poll suggests that only 8% of the british pubuc that only 8% of the british public are actually opposed to the king meeting , as them the king meeting, as them underline following the northern ireland's brexit agreement. it was a very tricky time. i think perhaps for buckingham palace and the king trying not to get dragged into political controversy and the question for me, when all this was happening was downing street sources seem to be implying, but it was a matter for the palace decide matter for the palace to decide whether for the king to whether or not for the king to meet the line at meet us live on the line at windsor castle. but the guidance and briefings i was getting from the was suggesting the palace was suggesting that they acting they were only acting on government's was government's advice and it was actually the minister. actually the prime minister. he had asked king had essentially asked the king to ursula von der leyen . so to meet ursula von der leyen. so the question for me is who we meant believe here? clearly meant to believe here? clearly the is a constitutional the king is a constitutional monarchy. cannot involved the king is a constitutional m

agreements. however just it was what, 2 hours before the poll he did. did anybody have a problem with charles? no, i didn't have a problem, darren. i did not have a problem. no ideas at all. i can't get animated about this in the way in which some people can. head of state at can. he's our head of state at the of the day, right? the end of the day, right? i have a huge problem with it. oh, will get published. think what will get published. i think what i tell you didn't i would tell you didn't have a problem. i didn't have a problem. i didn't have a problem. chris chris, i think problem. i didn't have a prothave chris chris, i think problem. i didn't have a prothave a1ris chris, i think problem. i didn't have a prothave a problem. i think problem. i didn't have a prothave a problem. that's; problem. i didn't have a prothave a problem. that's all you have a problem. that's all we've got to say. thank you there to comment because we've got to get we've to get on got to get we've got to get on to our for the we will have you back and maybe we'll have you on the as well, the show tomorrow as well, because i know you've some because i know you've got some maybe for us maybe breaking news for us tomorrow and superintendency well yougov survey has well and you yougov survey has found that nearly half of british viewers believe ethnic minority parties and lgbt communities are overrepresented on tv . the survey found that on tv. the survey found that britons are more likely than other national parties to think that the broadcast media does not reflect the makeup of society. 45% of people surveyed

in the uk believe that ethnic minorities were more represented on tv than in the population . on tv than in the population. joining us now to discuss this is social policy analyst dr. saqib ehsan rahim. thank you very much for joining saqib ehsan rahim. thank you very much forjoining us. it was an interesting poll. i mean , are an interesting poll. i mean, are the public right to think that ethnic minorities are overrepresented on tv and in adverts ? well, i think that the adverts? well, i think that the pubuc adverts? well, i think that the public opinion on this is completely understand . i've said completely understand. i've said for some time when it comes to marketing and advertising , marketing and advertising, especially on the telly, i do think there's a sense of being over inclusive , you could say, over inclusive, you could say, especially when it comes to ethnic background . and that poll ethnic background. and that poll also suggested that notable chunk of british people also feel that lgbt communities . all feel that lgbt communities. all right, overrepresented on television. so i think there is certainly an element of overcorrection where you have

people in those sectors who want to be tolerant. but by doing so , i do think there's a degree of representation when it comes to particular groups living in british society . i mean, particular groups living in british society. i mean, i did i did a bit of research about this rocky last night and i saw the bbc in their annual report, said that they have on screen diversity, as they call it, 27.9% of black, asian and minority ethnic people, which is way over the probably about double the popular asian large and a channel 4 yougov poll a few years ago show that a assault of a thousand adverts over two months, 37, featured black people, despite them making up less than 5% of the population . so there is some population. so there is some evidence there that there is an overrepresentation. i guess the question is, does it really matter ? does anybody really care matter? does anybody really care 7 matter? does anybody really care ? well, i think it does matter because i think that if you're going to be inclusive, that needs to be done in a way. i think the same poll by yougov, by the way, found nearly half of

british people felt that disabled people were underrepresented . when it comes underrepresented. when it comes to national television . and i've to national television. and i've always said that disability is the protected the neglected, protected characteristic when it comes to the equality act . can i just the equality act. can i just collective there was a collective there was a collective in the studio when you said that about the underrepresentation of people with disabilities. we all agreed. yeah. and i think that's really that's really important. i recently published a report on football governance in england, and i said that we still have a game where even though it's widely popular, i don't think it's necessarily disability friendly match friendly when it comes to match day ability. so i think day access ability. so i think that looking at these that when we're looking at these particular figures, i'd make the point this my point that this is just my personal observation. then when it comes to the asian origin population, that's notably larger than black population larger than the black population in uk , i also don't think in the uk, i also don't think that's necessarily reflected when comes to national when it comes to national television. so it's also quite important to disaggregate ethnic minority when we're minority groups when we're looking representation tv looking at representation in tv , you talked an , you talked about an overcorrection and that's frequently the fault and

failure, isn't it, when people over correct, they feel guilty in one way or another or they feel things haven't been like that too long. how do you that for too long. how do you now that over now counter that over correction? well think that there's no harm in looking at how we can have a inclusive arrangement. it'sjust how we can have a inclusive arrangement. it's just that we have to understand that there are certain groups which are under represented and this one group situate both represented that that's the reality of that that that's the reality of it. i also think that another group of people could say which are underrepresented . i would are underrepresented. i would say, esther, i think you may well agree with me a very rarely hear a fairly strong northern accent on television. i'm two. i'm going to have to end endure plenty perfect note. so northern accents on this panel lucky that brilliant i have you all but look that's it for the first hour of the show but don't go anywhere after the short break, we'll be talking to the secretary of state for northern ireland about that windsor framework . and we'll also be framework. and we'll also be discussing how helpful was boris

johnson's speech , the rishi johnson's speech, the rishi sunak don't go anywhere .

welcome back to friday morning with esther and philip here on tv news a bit you didn't hear dunng tv news a bit you didn't hear during the break is all the secrets, all of the info coming out? we'll be revealing those a little bit later on. we'll be looking at boris johnson's bombshell where he says rishi sunak hasn't got brexit done. do you agree or is it time for the tory party to rally behind its prime minister? we'll be joined by secretary of state for to by the secretary of state for to northern whether the northern ireland out whether the windsor it's windsor framework is all it's cracked to be. and a commons cracked up to be. and a commons pubuc cracked up to be. and a commons public accounts committee says the £14 billion plan to reduce nhs backlogs caused by covid is

failing to meet its targets . failing to meet its targets. stay with us to find out why . stay with us to find out why. and don't forget, you can get in touch with us. please do . email touch with us. please do. email us at gb views at gb news uk or tweet is asking the news well before we get on with all of our show and all of our stuff that we want to reveal to you, here's the latest headlines with diana . esther thank you. good morning. it's 11:01. . esther thank you. good morning. it's11:01. your top morning. it's 11:01. your top stories from the gb newsroom conservative mp jacob rees—mogg is calling for a proper inquiry into sue grey's appointment as sir keir starmer's new chief of staff . the senior civil servant staff. the senior civil servant led an independent investigation into partygate, but it was announced yesterday that she was leaving the civil service to join the labour party . allies of join the labour party. allies of bofis join the labour party. allies of boris johnson have condemned her new role with tory party chair, calling it inappropriate. mr. rees—mogg says the appointment invalidates her report into

lockdown breaches at number 10. former mp accepted her to reports on the strict understanding that she was impartial and now looks wrong. no confidence can be placed in the evidence she secured or passed. the police. so instead there should be an investigation , her and to her appointment. there should be an investigation , her and to her appointment . we , her and to her appointment. we should have an inquiry into what she has done and her contacts with while been with labour while she's been a civil , particularly those with civil, particularly those with the office of the leader of the opposition . further leaked opposition. further leaked whatsapp messages by matt hancock suggest his team asked if they could lock up nigel farage for being a pub hooligan and breaking lockdown rules . the and breaking lockdown rules. the messages revealed by the telegraph were allegedly sent in 2020 after mr. farage shared a video of himself drinking at a pub a fortnight earlier , he was pub a fortnight earlier, he was at a trump rally in the us under covid lockdown rules . anyone covid lockdown rules. anyone coming to england from abroad was required to quarantine for 14 days or face a £1,000 fine.

at the time , sapphire said he at the time, sapphire said he wasn't quarantine rules. however he since said he probably was. what i was photographed that day. the pubs open. had i reached the full 14 days? well it was a bit nip and. i think proper . properly. it was a bit nip and. i think proper. properly. i hadn't quite reached the time. i always made sure i used hand sanitiser. i always kept my distance from people . i have to say bad laws. people. i have to say bad laws. bad laws make people lawbreaking as constance marten and mark gordon will appear in court this morning after the remains of a baby were found in brighton. the pair have been charged with gross negligence, manslaughter , gross negligence, manslaughter, concealing the birth of a child and perverting the course of justice. the body of a newborn was found in an area of woodland in holland grey on wednesday after a two day search. the couple who arrested on monday will appear at crawley magistrates court later. dhs to

project could be delayed in an attempt to kerb rising costs. that's according to the project's chief executive . the project's chief executive. the line is supposed to provide a faster rail service between london and manchester but there are reports it may no run to its planned terminal used then as a cost saving measure. the project's chief executive now says the impact of inflation means they're having to look at ways of reducing costs further, including the timing and phasing of the project mourners are paying of the project mourners are paying their respects today. to leah croucher, whose body was found in a house in milton keynes four years after she disappeared . a cortege for the disappeared. a cortege for the 19 year old will pass through first and then a public funeral procession. thames valley police found human remains at a property last october following a tip off from the public. ms. croucher was last seen walking to work in february 19. neil maxwell was found dead two months after ms. crouch's disappearance. he remains the only suspect in the case. it's

been recommended. mp neil coyle been recommended. mp neil coyle be suspended from the house of commons after he was found to have breached parliament's bullying and harassment policy . bullying and harassment policy. the independent expert panel's recommended a five day suspension for the former labour politician. it follows reports of foul mouthed and drunken abuse of another mp, assistant . abuse of another mp, assistant. he is also accused of bullying and harassing a parliamentary journalist . both instances took journalist. both instances took place in a commons bar. journalist. both instances took place in a commons bar . a noble place in a commons bar. a noble prize winner and pro—democracy activist has been sentenced a belarus court to ten years in prison for funding protests. alice alioski, whose human rights group provided legal and financial aid to protesters dunng financial aid to protesters during a 2020 wave of unrest in belarus has also been convicted of evasion. he claims he's being persecuted for political reasons. russian news agency tass that's been reporting on the sentence says the verdict is

likely to be strongly condemned by the west . and back here it by the west. and back here it may well be march, but a cold weather alerts being issued for parts of the uk at the start of next week . the uk health next week. the uk health security agency says freezing temperatures and wintry showers are forecast across england from monday, bringing with it a risk of ice. the met office, meanwhile, has issued a snow warning for parts of scotland and the north—east of england. the cold snap is expected to last until midnight on wednesday . this is gb news bringing more as it happens now though as manchester philip . manchester philip. thanks to none , obviously still thanks to none, obviously still here with us as associate expert daily telegraph, chris hope as well as broadcaster darren grimes. we've got some of your views in here. we were talking about the prisons work , yes or

about the prisons work, yes or no ? gordon here. prison no? gordon here. prison overcrowding could be alleviated by transferring all criminals to their home countries . serve out their home countries. serve out their home countries. serve out their sentences there. that's how you get down to some of the overcrowded thing we were talking about, whether or not ethnic minorities were over represented on tv, williams says. given that white people represent 80% of the population. the increase in exclusion of white people, particularly white men, a foolish, blatant and men, is a foolish, blatant and form of discrimination that will foment resentment where non existed before . correctness is existed before. correctness is a pernicious presence in our society. and andrew says , as society. and andrew says, as a retired prison officer, i know, releasing prisoners early to relieve overcrowding will not work. and paul says, i've been on a jury foreman twice and each time the jurors weren't given information of the defendant's past crimes. but we're coming to conclusion. prisons do work . conclusion. prisons do work. thatis conclusion. prisons do work. that is the big story of the day. of course, it's about sue gray and her joining the senior gray and herjoining the senior civil servant, joining keir starmer's team. mike says as an act servant, i can tell

act civil servant, i can tell you that at levels from you that at all levels from junior to senior, there very junior to senior, there is very little impartiality any little impartiality in any department. is never department. the code is never to, nor is it ever enforced. just a quick one there, chris, is. you know, you will have a nose for a good story or one that could run for a long time. is this going to be a big story? is this going to be a big story? i want to say it is. i mean, you've got people coming out and saying how damaging civil service are natural service people who are natural allies of the civil service saying sue grace made mistake saying sue grace made a mistake here. the tories risk overreaching. i think the partygate seen to be partygate inquiry was seen to be a fair inquiry, i think. i'm not sure what jacob rees—mogg is saying there, but looking back, what did the what did you know? where did the talks i think yes , it talks start? i think it yes, it looks for labour because looks good for labour because they're say whatever they're going to say whatever sleaze he sue were sleaze he sue gray were different tory party, but different to the tory party, but it might be a problem i think for both sides as well. now bofis for both sides as well. now boris johnson has criticised rishi the eu, rishi sunak's deal with the eu, saying take saying it doesn't take back control brussels. the control from brussels. the former prime minister told the global soft power summit in london that he will find it very difficult to vote for the windsor framework. struck windsor framework. deal struck by still

by rishi sunak because it still means eu laws . means having to follow eu laws. so joining us now for more on this is political editor of huffington post uk kevin schofield . good morning, kevin. schofield. good morning, kevin. so what did you think of boris johnson's intervention there criticising rishi sunak's deal? helpful or . criticising rishi sunak's deal? helpful or. not a not particularly helpful, but i think should work on the assumption that anything that bofis assumption that anything that boris johnson says in public is designed to be unhelpful . rishi designed to be unhelpful. rishi sunak he's not your biggest fan . he would dearly love to be 5 minutes to again. he rishi sunak . he would dearly love to be 5 mirhelping again. he rishi sunak . he would dearly love to be 5 mirhelping to ain. he rishi sunak . he would dearly love to be 5 mirhelping to brings rishi sunak . he would dearly love to be 5 mirhelping to bring themi sunak . he would dearly love to be 5 mirhelping to bring them down.( for helping to bring them down. and i mean what i thought was was quite notable, though, was that it wasn't full throttle. bofis that it wasn't full throttle. boris johnson the he was a little bit cagey by his stance, although he said he wouldn't vote probably would vote against that. he didn't say definitely wouldn't vote for it. he's probably would vote against it or certainly couldn't support that. he wasn't calling on conservative mps to rise up or the dup to mount a campaign against it. i don't think it's

that surprising that he has obvious concerns about it because ultimately it's replacing the deal that he struck himself . it's implicitly struck himself. it's implicitly saying has there wasn't any good so we have to improve upon it, which obviously boris johnson isn't going to agree with. and also in thought was interesting in q&a after the speech, he in the q&a after the speech, he acknowledged that the vast majority of the public , i think, majority of the public, i think, just want to move on now from brexit. you know, the vote was 2016. debate has been going 2016. this debate has been going on for such a long time. we keep being told that, know, let's being told that, you know, let's get brexit done. and yet here we are, we're still discussing it. we're having discussions we're still having discussions with and it's not with the eu and it's still not done. with the eu and it's still not done . so i think there's an done. so i think there's an acknowledgement if you're boris johnson, that probably the pubuc johnson, that probably the public to public mood now is for just to move on. and i think he's got to be careful with that. he then starts up a fresh brexit campaign, may turn off ordinary members the public . mean, members of the public. i mean, as alluded that, kevin, as you alluded to, that, kevin, is, he's a bit rich, is, you know, he's a bit rich, isn't it, for boris johnson to be complaining about rishi sunak's when effect sunak's deal when in effect rishi in effect trying

rishi sunak's in effect trying to up the mess that boris to clear up the mess that boris johnson left behind with with his he's got a bit of his deal. he's got a bit of a brass out there to be to be complaining about this particular deal. certainly particular deal. it's certainly better than the one he negotiated, ideal negotiated, whether it's ideal or not. yeah i think you're right. and i think it does realise that. i mean i think this is, you know, he'll be pretty happy with the way that the deal gone down thus far. the deal has gone down thus far. the dup have expressed some concerns that have not often, if not completely reject that. the same goes for the erg are in a bit of a holding pattern a moment before we hear exactly what a final and positions on it are. but thus far i think the consensus among conservative mp is that it's as you see philip as better than what was there before is not perfect no deal as ever going to be perfect let's let's be honest at least it improves the current situation and think boris johnson realises that he's got a tricky balancing act as much as he dearly love to come back at the same time, he

doesn't need to overreach and find himself out of touch, not just with the public mood, but with the mood of the vast majority of conservative mp. he talked about other things as well. he about tax, well. then he talked about tax, corporate and tax shouldn't go up , but obviously he was the one up, but obviously he was the one who was putting taxes up . who was putting taxes up. wouldn't it be nice to have been a prime minister with the 80 seat majority? i do want tax it down. well, quite. you know, i think boris johnson enjoys being out of power and insofar as it allows them to call for really popular things . but i think he popular things. but i think he realises that once he's actually number 10 actually doing this type of stuff is quite difficult . but you're right, it does open himself charges himself up to charges of hypocrisy . but it's not just tax hypocrisy. but it's not just tax , obviously. that's another way. i think that he's going to have to try. and how about have a go at rishi sunak if you clean as well, obviously with the a fighter jets, that's something else. so even as rishi sunak wins battle brexit, wins the battle of brexit, i don't think boris johnson's just going slink into the going to slink off into the

shadows. think he'll find shadows. i think he'll find other rishi other ways to undermine rishi sunak , kevin schofield , thank sunak, kevin schofield, thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. i'm going to bnng us this morning. i'm going to bring it back to the studio . bring it back to the studio. well, i wanted to ask darren, i mean, what do you make of boris johnson sort of sniping from the sidelines, you know , some people sidelines, you know, some people might say, well, you know , he's might say, well, you know, he's entitled to speak out. he's should say what he thinks positive. think back to ted heath. it was sort of referred to as the great sulk when he saw snipe at margaret thatcher all the . and so is there the time. and so is there a danger that boris could become sort of seen as a ted heath kind of that potentially of figure that potentially is both know, before he both boris, you know, before he joined, minister joined, became prime minister before he actually became foreign secretary and he a foreign secretary and he was a real sort of he could move the dial in the conservative party and actually beat the drum for issues that matter like taxation, for example . and i do taxation, for example. and i do think he has a point, you know, in northern ireland discussion where he said he actually is comfortable forward and he said that there's a problem here because that the deal that we've

secured the windsor framework is the exact deal that liz truss was offered when she was foreign secretary they rejected and secretary that they rejected and passed, tried to pass the north and island protocol bill to actually make sure the uk actually make sure that the uk had strong negotiating hand. had a strong negotiating hand. so i'm a bit worried that we've now gone back a step and said rishi sunak said, want to rishi sunak said, i just want to get done so we're to get this done so we're going to accept this deal . yeah, i think accept this deal. yeah, i think we've maybe we we've talked about maybe we should actually keep that bill now. some i think we can go now. got some i think we can go live to some answer that are being given by this case. emma about sue gray and his appointment there or who he hopes to appoint as the areas. let's hear what his answers are about sue gray . my let's hear what his answers are about sue gray. my name's abby and i would like to ask . reports and i would like to ask. reports have indicated that many young people have no faith their little in the political institutions in northern ireland. how can you help to restore that faith ? i've seen restore that faith? i've seen some of those reports . and on

some of those reports. and on one level i can understand , i one level i can understand, i think there's a if i'm honest, i think there's a if i'm honest, i think there's a lack of faith politics generally to fix things. this is not just across northern ireland. fingers crossed. we've got keep the sense of disconnect and people feeling like i can't seem to influence politicians to really make the change i want to see. we've got to change that because that's part of politics. politics ought to be the most incredible force to cut the idea that you can elect in representatives to other bodies , to on a basis of a free vote so— , to on a basis of a free vote so that we can then change. and so that we can then change. and so brilliant ideas , the battle so brilliant ideas, the battle of ideas, you know, should we do this? should we do that? let's have a discussion about it. and the person that we respect discussion to try discussion gets the right to try and change things for the better. that's an incredible force and therefore, force for good. and therefore, when there is this distance between what politics can be and what politics, sometimes has become, i think it's a bad thing

, but i think we have to do as politicians is to allow that trust to be restored , to behave trust to be restored, to behave in a way that's actually meets . in a way that's actually meets. we're entitled to that trust because we shouldn't just assume that people should trust us or that people should trust us or that somehow our people should look old and say, well, they'll do the right thing. we have to show that we understand what people are going through. we understand what's in their mind , and that we will faithfully reflect the politics of reflect that in the politics of the what do you think would the day. what do you think would make difference? do you, in make a difference? do you, in terms of that issue? terms of that trust issue? i think for young people, we've seen of the politics in our seen more of the politics in our they like to be more the election so that they're just learning more and the elections and more about that . that's and more about that. that's important. on educating young people. yeah think that's probably right. and so i think politicians should be exposed to communities and people more as well . i, communities and people more as well. i, i will every single thing do like this, every vote

we do. i always love something. i always have something that i take away me that you can't get by reading a briefing paper. london this last few bit engagements something somebody says that makes you think i know that's interesting. and so i think this trip through having events like this where we can directly talk to each other makes a huge, huge difference. i think so. thank you , abby. and think so. thank you, abby. and finally, all my three. i've got best as a key. if i'm called ben and i'm a politics, i would say colin's college and i you leaving this year or you got another year to go? i've got another year to go? i've got another year to go. okay so do you know what you're going to do at the end of the. i was thinking about political science later on in life. i've so that was chaos of this. speaking at a school in northern ireland, we got was going be got told he was going to be asking answering questions asking some answering questions on his appointment of sue gray. we haven't yet, but he was talking about trust, chris, and that's what's going on here in

politics. and this is what it's about. the underlying question, i mean the point of sue gray by keir starmer annoying for keir starmer is annoying for conservatives is quite clever politics labour because it politics for labour because it shows clear demarcate shows i think clear demarcate between the issues your party's had was face was sleaze that kind of thing and he's indicating to the voters we've got this party founder in chief running our operation will be a cleaning closed government. so i can see why it's working for labouris can see why it's working for labour is damaging think to sue gray probably personally and the civil service and trust in civil service people and long term as you say trust in the civil service. but people talk about actually who is running the country , who's got the power . country, who's got the power. has it always been leaning to the left? it's a long term . it the left? it's a long term. it won't actually restore trust in the public and in politics it may not, it will certainly have it, you know, will you want to give all your secrets out to her? you her unit, when she now knows all the secrets of the government? and of course, she won't. i'm sure she won't reveal

those. but the concern is she knows it all. that's a worry. well joining us live now is well now joining us live now is a for northern a sanctuary state for northern ireland. heaton—harris. ireland. chris heaton—harris. chris, thanks ever so much for joining us. we've been talking about the windsor framework . you about the windsor framework. you know, was sort of billed as a know, it was sort of billed as a great triumph for brexit's in getting brexit done. but there's been a number of people sort of questioned whether or not it's all it's cracked up to be. you used to be chairman of the lg as well. steve payne research group. yeah, stephen barratt said on gb news yesterday. it's a document with no legal effect. it's a wish list of vague commitments and envisages the uk government maintaining a with eu laws. so what do you say to people who say that this deal isn't all it's cracked up to be? well to that specific question , well to that specific question, i'd say, well, that's wrong. i mean there are treaty changes that the european union have to pass to get the stormont lock put into law and to do the vat

changes as a whole host of eu law. that's just disappeared. the needs to be done on the european side , the new green european side, the new green lane needs a treaty change and i'm backing on the european side as well. so i can actually prove that there needs to. it has quite a strong legal effect. those different but for people who say it's not getting brexit done , i guess i'll say the will. done, i guess i'll say the will. what do you think brexit. well, as we've left the european union now, this deal now allows for food produced in in the united kingdom to be able to travel freely around the united kingdom for consumption. it eliminates what was a customs in the irish sea. it means there is a whole host less eu law. there is still 3% or less, probably less than 3% or less, probably less than 3% of eu law . that applies to 3% of eu law. that applies to northern ireland, but it's 3% of law that actually is the minimum

required by the businesses there. but they have asked for that. people that work in northern ireland have asked to maintain their link into the single market without a north—south border on the island of ireland. so i would say i'm not sure getting brexit done might look like to some people it wasn't ever meant to be cutting our nose to spite our face. it was never meant to be leavers with bad relations with the european union. but this this is a deal that goes way, way further in sorting out the northern ireland protocol than any other previous suggestions, and i believe will bring prosperity to northern ireland, which is good for the union. now, you know, you were a strong supporter boris johnson when supporter of boris johnson when he prime minister. chris he was prime minister. chris yesterday on the front page yesterday is on the front page of express today. of the daily express today. bofis of the daily express today. boris rishi's deal will not take back control. so what would you say to boris johnson ? is he is say to boris johnson? is he is he completely wrong about this to i as you know, i love boris

with a passion. i think he's one of the greatest politicians we have in our party. and he's got a great he's got a great part to play a great he's got a great part to play in this. i had a conversation with him yesterday as well . and the beautiful thing as well. and the beautiful thing about british politics is we don't always have to agree. and on this, i'm afraid i don't think boris is going to complete it. right. he was saying that we wouldn't able to diverge and actually we absolutely will be able to diverge in our standards and in how we do things as we move forward. but there is a lot in the westminster framework . i in the westminster framework. i don't think people are quite come to terms with how all encompassing thing this is because it does sort out hopefully forever . the issues hopefully forever. the issues that we have in the irish sea, which have meant that a huge amount of uk gb made goods have been missing from shelves in northern ireland. but that's just a practical effect. but there's been a problem with the couldn't apply a vat changes or

duty changes in northern ireland. this deal sorts that out we could a whole host of things we couldn't do all sorted by this deal . things we couldn't do all sorted by this deal. but the big problem with everybody there is still 3% of eu law, but that's the bit of eu law that makes actually northern ireland gives gives a special relationship with itself. sorry, i can't hate. okay, okay . i'll, i'll, hate. okay, okay. i'll, i'll, i'll shout at people have said they've accepted this is a lot better much better than it was before. but i guess what they're looking at here is the dup's have you got support of them? do they think it's good enough ? they think it's good enough? yeah. and that's a really fair question and that's why i have beeni question and that's why i have been i actually like us 90 foot kind of wear the scars of what's gone on before where we think something has been sold to us, which turns out not to be what it is. and so we are, you know,

we've now published everything, the legal text, everything's out there allowing people to have there allowing people to have the time and the space to look at it properly, because it's actually genuinely important to the people of northern ireland that they have a functioning executive up running. the executive up and running. the northern ireland was northern ireland protocol was the behind the dup, the main issue behind the dup, not rejoining the executive. there and they need to be comfortable with themselves that this does it does the job. now, i would like to think that the stormont great that's contained within new deal which is within this new deal which is i really meaty tool of a democracy and stormont gives gives even added more added emphasis because it means essentially in that 3% of law that still appues that 3% of law that still applies to northern ireland, eu law that still applies and if that changes from the eu that ever changes from the eu side , stormont has a break on side, stormont has a break on that. so i'd like something in this bill. they do need the time and space. agree with that, chris, but what finally, if we've time this sue gray appointment, your views on that

keir starmer wanting to appoint sue gray one of the top civil servants . yeah, i am here to be servants. yeah, i am here to be diplomatic and helpful i'm surprised by the appointment. i have to say . i surprised by the appointment. i have to say. i i surprised by the appointment. i have to say . i i work with sue have to say. i i work with sue gray . she's been a very good gray. she's been a very good civil servant in my dealings with her. but as. as as you mentioned, i was boris's chief whip. i'm still a good friend of . and i think this raises a whole host of questions for other people to ask . george well other people to ask. george well said in. politicians outside diplomats , he was diplomatic. diplomats, he was diplomatic. but what we do need and i know we've got to go to break go to know what those questions are at this point. staff coming up to 14 billion plans to reduce nhs waits and this in england is failing. we'll tell you why just after the break. and i'm going to call chris heaton—harris in this .

break welcome back. it's now 1129. we had to go to the break there, but i did call chris heaton—harris. like i said, what are the questions you're talking about? and he said, it does feed in to the concern people have about that at partygate inquiry, the sue gray led that's what you say it asked questions about that that she was in charge of propriety and ethics. what does it say about her? maybe an ill judged appointment? chris it say about her? maybe an ill judged appointment ? chris well, judged appointment? chris well, yeah. now people are going back over what has been said in the past. we're seeing on past. we're seeing here on twitter starmer said twitter that keir starmer said in last year when partygate inquiry was started, that he knew her purse only. and she's got a huge integrity and huge respect. but this idea of no him that now you know that those

were knowing some fallen person he has followed a great important think given what we important i think given what we know not just the know and this is not just the case you you know you do lot on twitter you take videos on twitter. you can capture all of this and he's going to be tripped up. oh, absolutely. yeah. but he must like the cat that got the cream because is going find boris ryder price going to find boris ryder price and sir starmer has made no and sir keir starmer has made no secret that he can't secret of the fact that he can't stand boris johnson so secret of the fact that he can't stand borisjohnson so i stand it. boris johnson so i think is actually an think this is actually an attempt part to just attempt on his part to just troll to be honest with troll boris, to be honest with you. well, not only , not well we you. well, not only, not well we know we looked at who the lawyer was that advising sue gray . well was that advising sue gray. well he was a daniel still it's a case we find he was a labour party member until 2019. again, all of this thoughts of public she had this advice on the question i thought chris is that i can't believe that sue gray left the civil service and keir starmer just left the civil service and keir starmerjust appointed her and starmer just appointed her and they must have been having conversations . they must have conversations. they must have been having conversations , been having conversations, wasn't they? so the question is, i long these

i suppose, how long of these discussions been going on? what i suppose, how long of these disthe sions been going on? what i suppose, how long of these disthe bit?; been going on? what i suppose, how long of these disthe bit? ioeen going on? what i suppose, how long of these disthe bit? i thinkjoing on? what i suppose, how long of these disthe bit? i think this| on? what i suppose, how long of these disthe bit? i think this isn? what of the bit? i think this is going to be the of the weekend when talks start . you when are the talks start. you know, were they talking during the party inquiry to join his private office? i mean, it's possible me when he'd isabella oakeshott to do a story on sue gray and then get all the that was right and still well that's us we're going to be here we're going to be mulling over all the big stories coming up. the pub trade has warned of thousands of closures across the country if the government support on energy bills is not meant tamed. we'll be speaking to the campaign at campaign four pubs about this . campaign four pubs about this. so stay with us for that. but it's the news with brianna . okay it's the news with brianna. okay we're not going to do that . we we're not going to do that. we won't be going to indiana. we'll go to rhiannon a little bit later on. but we can look a little bit more about this in partiality, as you say, you

think starmer is just basically troll king boris johnson getting his how will boris react? well, i think boris actually say what jacob rees—mogg said on this very channel last night, which is that this stinks to high heaven. is that this stinks to high heaven . right. and it calls into heaven. right. and it calls into question the impartiality of the entire system. and when you've already got and sue gray has mentioned this herself , that mentioned this herself, that trust in these institutions is incredibly important. and that's why you need an ethics adviser, yada yada, yada. well, i'm afraid when it turns out, it transpires that there have clearly been conversation while she's been in this post about joining the labour party chief of staff to sir keir starmer . it of staff to sir keir starmer. it calls into question the entire premise of the finding around bofis premise of the finding around boris johnson eating a bit of cake during lockdown right . that cake during lockdown right. that whole farce is now called. right. but of course it may, chris. it may it may mean the privileges committee inquiry sort of gets it does because it sort of gets it does because it sort of gets it does because it sort of might say that you can't get a fair trial now and there's. yes, exactly right. and i think there's real concern

here boris johnson. mean, here for boris johnson. i mean, he's going worry about he's going to worry about whether calls into question whether this calls into question what he's judged. what he what he how he's judged. it a bit cosy for all this it was a bit cosy for all this faith and to sue gray. the thing was sue gray she was given this sort authority all last year sort of authority all last year of judgement. solomon some of the judgement. solomon some of the judgement. solomon some of and of these wise, incorruptible and now damaging now she does this is damaging i think herself and civil service i don't think as you're saying down. starmer minds one bit down. keir starmer minds one bit you we can go to you know well now we can go to the new republicans has said we'll lots to do and we'll be here got lots to do and it's specifically that £14 billion to that the nhs got to get rid of backlog. we'll be looking at that. but first it's the news headlines with the other . esther, thank you. it's other. esther, thank you. it's 1133. your top stories , the gb 1133. your top stories, the gb newsroom. conservative mp jacob rees—mogg is calling for a proper inquiry into sue grey's appointment as sir keir starmer's new chief of staff .

starmer's new chief of staff. the senior civil servant led an independent investigation partygate, but it was announced yesterday that she was leaving the civil to join the labour party . allies of boris johnson party. allies of boris johnson condemned her new role with the tory party chair , calling it tory party chair, calling it inappropriate . mr. says the inappropriate. mr. says the appointment in validates her report to and lockdown breaches at number 10. former mp accepted her two reports on the strict understanding that she was impartial and that now looks wrong . no confidence can be wrong. no confidence can be placed in the evidence she secured or passed the police. so instead there should be an investigation into her and to her appointment. we should have an inquiry into what she has donein an inquiry into what she has done in her contacts . labour, done in her contacts. labour, while she's been a civil servant, particularly those with the office of the leader of the opposition. a nobel peace prize winner and pro—democracy activists has been sentenced in activists has been sentenced in a veterans court to ten years in prison for protests at. this

rally at ski, whose human rights group provided legal and aid to protesters during a 2020 wave of unrest in belarus. has also been convicted of tax evasion. he claims being persecuted for political . russian news agency political. russian news agency tass that's been reporting on the sentence says the verdict is likely to be strong , condemned likely to be strong, condemned by the west . and it may well be by the west. and it may well be march but a cold weather alerts being issued for of the uk at the start next week. the uk health security agency says freezing temperatures and wintry showers are forecast across england from monday , bringing england from monday, bringing with it a risk of ice . met with it a risk of ice. met office, meanwhile, has issued a warning for parts of scotland and the north—east of england. nicolson that's expected to last until midnight on wednesday day . tv online under b radio. this is .

gb news. welcome back. it's 1139. now a report by the commons public accounts committee has said that the £14 billion plan to reduce backlogs caused by covid is failing to meet targets . the failing to meet targets. the report also found that nhs england's three year recovery programme for elective care was already falling short in its first year with cancer waiting times at their worst ever levels. joining us now to discuss is oncologist professor angus dalgliesh . professor angus dalgliesh. professor dalglish, thank you so for taking the time to join this morning. look, i suppose of people will be wondering the government's pumped in £14 billion on a promise from the nhs that it would get waiting lists down. the chairman , the

lists down. the chairman, the pubuc lists down. the chairman, the public accounts committee, meg hillier , said despite hillier, said despite a significant cash injection that the nhs is in full blown crisis and all the metrics are going in the wrong direction . people in the wrong direction. people in the wrong direction. people in the nhs say we need money, the nhs gets more money and things get worse. so why are the nhs so appalling it looking after taxpayers . money. well, i'm glad taxpayers. money. well, i'm glad you put it like that because that's precisely into point out it wouldn't matter if you put 20 or 30 billion into it would make no difference. while the nhs remains completely unreformed and just right from the front line. the biggest problem at the nhs has is retention staff. they may boast , nhs has is retention staff. they may boast, but nhs has is retention staff. they may boast , but they have nhs has is retention staff. they may boast, but they have had 40,000 nurses. when you forget to tell you they lost 50,000. it's the same doctors. and one of the reasons they're going is the total lack of morale all the support, the fact, everything is done by managers. so you never see and never interact with. you make decisions which do not

involve the clinical staff. and until the care. frontline staff actually , all this they have actually, all this they have a management structure that in ministers what they need , ministers what they need, there's never going to be any improvement in the system. i have said this many, many times before . i've presented to before. i've presented to department of health, the nhs , department of health, the nhs, all these people just basically not has , and then they come to not has, and then they come to the amazing conclusion that well, at least the nhs is still the best system in the world. if you think that you'll never , you think that you'll never, ever going to improve it. you think that you'll never, ever going to improve it . and we ever going to improve it. and we really do need to make major, major changes in it, especially the action i've been involved with, with a lot of reports , with, with a lot of reports, with, with a lot of reports, with the nhs. what needs to be done. with the nhs. what needs to be done . but now i'm absolutely done. but now i'm absolutely convinced that it is staff retention . morale needs to be retention. morale needs to be addressed first. so maybe it's the enormity of the changes that's got to be done. that stopped people doing anything. it's a form of paralysis . so

it's a form of paralysis. so where would you start you're advising a minister now. where would you start you're advising a minister now . they've advising a minister now. they've got to start somewhere . things got to start somewhere. things aren't working. they where would you start ? well, the first thing you start? well, the first thing that i would do is i would change all the infrastructure of how the nhs works. i think this is going to be done slowly. for example , this purchase of example, this purchase of provide a split which i believe wastes about percent of a of the entire budget, with one group of doctors purchasing their services . a hospital do they services. a hospital do they provide for their patients ? this provide for their patients? this is on the grounds that they can competition. it doesn't actually really exist , it just wastes really exist, it just wastes money. and then all these massive contracts all private finance initiatives which just waste enormous sums of money and you don't really have control over it. but if i have to do the one one thing i would do tomorrow is bear in mind, all of this needs to be real. grace arena, which is if i would actually put clinical service

centres led clinicians not way it's all set up at the moment with trusts etc. i think that that's been a real obfuscation of how the money is spent. i think you have to really have a say and of what the population needs. and by the way , this is needs. and by the way, this is going to require something that nobody wants to hear. you're going to have to pay for the in future fee at the point of service is absolutely inevitable in every civilised . but is that in every civilised. but is that the public ? is what you're the public? is what you're saying? yes. and even if it's just say it's just indicative ad hokum that they use the service. now i've got people who . will now i've got people who. will put it there. i'm going to bring it back into the studio. these are big changes that needs to be done as said, it's like a bottomless pit for the nhs. how about. bottomless pit for the nhs. how about . i think that these public

about. i think that these public paying about. i think that these public paying wild things for a rethink of how we do the nhs there is obviously already a two tier nhs people who can afford private care do it because they want to have the care when they want. i think you need think about think you need to think about these. charging for gp these. be some charging for gp appointments. £10, £20. you wince there, phil , but appointments. £10, £20. you wince there, phil, but i think i think that make the appointment is so costly it's only way is that we don't really appreciate what taxpayers are paying for. i just i just think that's every part of my party will think that's politically toxic to do. but why can't you touch nhs ? why but why can't you touch nhs? why is it in this bill? and also you can't charge the nhs. i'm on of i think the bit that the public value about the nhs is that the treatments free at the of treatments free at the point of need that prince all is the need that that prince all is the important principle rest of important principle the rest of how is a complete how he's organised is a complete disaster. i can't that. disaster. but i can't see that. i can't see any political party to dealing with. what do you think? actually, you know, think? well actually, you know, dunng think? well actually, you know, during there, we'll be during the news there, we'll be looking about nhs two looking at a story about nhs two and money that's being and the money that's being pumped this pumped into that and how this political that political paralysis that with both saying , well, of

both parties saying, well, of course we need to go through with that, even though it's turning complete turning out to be a complete disaster. think the disaster. i think the same happened the nhs today happened with the nhs today where we're saying, well, what the money, the nhs needs more money, despite fact that if you despite the fact that if you look across europe, there are smaller economies spending less than we and getting a lot better health care outcomes. why is that? i was going to give you more money to the nhs £14 billion. see, it's a type of waiting list and they've got the way to this ago was actually when he talked about the staff though and how they were feeling. what's going on. i think there's big question. there that morale is there isn't that morale is totally now know we've got totally we now know we've got more he was talking more staff, but he was talking about retention. nobody more staff, but he was talking about sayetention. nobody more staff, but he was talking about say that.on. nobody more staff, but he was talking about say that. you'veyody more staff, but he was talking about say that. you've got to wants to say that. you've got to train got to train them. you've got to educate, got to keep educate, you've got to keep them. so this is the issue that's got to be sorted out straightaway. huge, too straightaway. it is huge, too much and just much management and people just don't working don't know who they're working towards. people up towards. you think people put up less a being having bad less with a being having bad health in the old days, the worst post—war were worst post—war generation were get on. some gp has get by, carry on. some gp has said to me that people are increasingly to go the increasingly keen to go to the

doctor need to. doctor when they don't need to. we're doing all google we're all doing all google diagnosis. we do thinking that were worse are. look, were worse than we are. look, it's brilliant having you it's been brilliant having you here, chris. brilliant to here, chris. so brilliant to have here. darren grimes, have you here. darren grimes, you much of your you very much for all of your comments throughout the show. you very much for all of your comlisten throughout the show. you very much for all of your comlisten the)ughout the show. you very much for all of your comlisten the thingut the show. you very much for all of your comlisten the thing we he show. you very much for all of your comlisten the thing we got how. you very much for all of your comlisten the thing we got to n. but listen the thing we got to do now and that's the pub trade has warned a of pubs going to close across the country. the government support of energy bills not maintained. the bills is not maintained. the british people have publicised issues of coal to the chancellor jeremy to do to protect the jeremy hunt to do to protect the industry fourth industry in these fourth coming spnng industry in these fourth coming spring as due to spring budget. as i say, due to the cost of living crisis, more people are being forced to eat and, drink at home more often, putting pubs are putting a squeeze on pubs are the the caused by the the ends of the caused by the high bills. joining us high energy bills. joining us now campaign director at now is the campaign director at campaign pubs, greg holland. campaign for pubs, greg holland. good , greg. good to see good morning, greg. good to see you there . so how dire is about you there. so how dire is about stories? are these stories true? is that many people are going to see close ? well we certainly see close? well we certainly hope the boats, the voting from the british pub association, who

of course, represent the global brewers and the large boat companies . this is something companies. this is something must be taken very seriously . must be taken very seriously. the campaigns of those we represent publicans and goers and certainly our public and members are reporting that trade is very, very difficult with you off. now for all the scaling down with the support faceless energy bills that is set to come in in april then you know people are not sure they can carry on and continue to trade so it is worrying time we're seeing more closures and ever so more supports something that's needed but it needs to be direct support for all pubs and not just close to two general duty which would not help boats and so , greg, i mean, is this just so, greg, i mean, is this just about literally the bills people, you know, the energy bills, which i know massively disproportionately affecting places like pubs or is this

something more structural ? something more structural? that's the problem with the pub sector. i know that when you were the mp for leeds north east, you were instrumental in, in pubs code adjudicate you in the pubs code adjudicate you to try and help deal with some of unfair conditions . to try and help deal with some of unfair conditions. is of the unfair conditions. is that still an issue going forward? the pubs are struggling with how they're treated by the landlords . is it literally now landlords. is it literally now just about these bills ? well, just about these bills? well, i'm afraid that still is issue, phil, and that was something that you you know, you were in and i'm afraid that the pope's code in, the pubs code adjudicator system was was very much watered down and hasn't work the way it was supposed to. publicans have been betrayed. the promises have been broken in terms of how that would work. so thatis terms of how that would work. so that is a problem and tenanted until pubs and clubs particularly for the large companies are are are the ones that are particularly struggling. we're seeing free houses, community pubs do better. but as you've said, this particular crisis , it's the cost particular crisis, it's the cost

of living crisis , the fact that of living crisis, the fact that consumers are feeling the pinch and not able spend as much. people are going to the pub less with those eye—watering energy bills and above all what we'd like to see. the chancellor do is to not scale back the support, to continue to support for businesses on energy bills the rest of this year because be another winter before very long but also look at cutting vat. we need some direct support. the government were keen to support businesses through the pandemic , which of course was disastrous with pubs having to close . and with pubs having to close. and yet there's a sense now that actually the chancellor simply either doesn't get it all, doesn't care . and they say, well doesn't care. and they say, well , you know, we're supporting you as much as we can. and what that is saying is that the government is saying is that the government is happy to see many hundreds indeed , if not a couple of indeed, if not a couple of thousand pub closures . and that thousand pub closures. and that means post closing and communities up and down the country. but otherwise ties are perfectly viable that many of the time profits for successful

contributing to the economy. so it is needed. thank you thank you for your time this morning and this will be a big issue rumble on and i know are lobbying the chancellor as we speak about this issue. we've got some beautiful things about talk about things rumbling on. jane says keir starmer shown a poor lack of judgement appointing sue gray. is he really be minister? really fit to be prime minister? this proves partygate this also proves partygate a complete up disgusting complete stitch up disgusting about neil says when the country is broken and people are sitting in the cold and struggling to pay in the cold and struggling to pay the bills, why does sue gray matter? poll here. are we about to the grey gate period? is that what we're doing ? and joules are what we're doing? and joules are saying to hear praise about bofis saying to hear praise about boris johnson . and margaret from boris johnson. and margaret from cheshire. the morning has been philip in my opinion on this with people talking about the framework take back control she's saying no she feels she's been a betrayal of the northern ireland protocol and the betrayal of brexit. thank you

for all your views. let's now welcome sarah robinson to take a look through some of the biggest stories from the entertain ment world. so your first sorry, the royal eviction . i know the role royal eviction. i know the role of fiction . it's all coming off of fiction. it's all coming off again with harry and meghan. more from them saying they're stunned and shocked to be found out that king charles has not allowed them to stay at frogmore. he's he's apparently kicked them out while this is what's been reported. however, i just got to say , with this on just got to say, with this on that they haven't been living that. obviously, they went as we noted on sister document share which came last year, the house is more or less empty. they took everything with them when they went to montecito. we saw pictures you from that document shields this empty and furniture and boxes and what have you then harry's cousin eugenie moved it so she was living in there. so they've not been there for such a long time. the visit has come up for renewal. they're not going to take it on when they've

got a £14 million mansion in montecito that they're having to look after. then plates pay 360,000 a year for this lease . 360,000 a year for this lease. it just doesn't make financial sense. i was thinking that harry and meghan are like the snp are in politics. they're just always looking for a grievance, whether it's justified and all. they just seize any possible just seize upon any possible grievances living grievances came about living back in but not anything. back in it, but not anything. i mean, king charles to me at mean, king charles said to me at the when he going to the start when he was going to become he said, you know become king, he said, you know what, i'm going to modernise the royal. going look royal. we're going to look at the of living as the cost of living as everybody's going through cost of i'm going of living. therefore, i'm going to on expenditure. why to cut back on expenditure. why would empty would you have an empty property like to like that doesn't you going to downsize ? exactly this woman downsize? exactly this woman said she can't afford that to fix the problems at royal lodge. this is going to cost millions in terms of the refurbishment for royal was frogmore was done now he can go in there and that's affordable for him. but harry and meghan are not happy. the question that they what the i talk to you about if i want to talk to you about if i might it's about jeremy might so it's about jeremy clarkson is being cancelled clarkson. is he being cancelled

from ? hasn't he been from itv? hasn't he been cancelled? this is wrong. now, this is this is very important. this he actually came this story. he actually came out on twitter and said, this is not true. i have not been cancelled. i'm to be the of who i'm still going to be the of who wants be a millionaire, which wants to be a millionaire, which i'm to because i'm pleased to know because i think he's brilliant. he's absolutely fantastic. and carolyn , who's the head carolyn mccall, who's the head of come out herself, of itv, she's come out herself, said no cancellation. the said this no cancellation. the show's carrying on. it's been recorded with jeremy. she says, we've cancelled clarkson we've cancelled jeremy clarkson . what i thought was interesting from her wording is she said what he said in the sun has no impact on itv's friends so. i said, oh, does that that for any celebrity if they're caught in wrongdoing who's a member of itv that they can use that as an excuse if it wasn't done cheering while working five tv you know, life has as it happens i thought was interesting the wording of what she said about that that his words in the sun didn't affect the branding for itv. therefore she's not going to be the reason . i mean, i to be the reason. i mean, i wouldn't i don't know if there's been a change heart here,

whether been whether they've been backtracking after it was backtracking on it after it was sort floated us. but sort of floated remind us. but the i'm interested i've the reason i'm interested i've been quite lengthy been having quite lengthy correspondence been having quite lengthy corresp about:e been having quite lengthy corresp about gary neville and mccall about gary neville and his political comments during the world cup on, itv. and i said to her how is she going to make sure that gary neville never appears on itv again after he sort of even got involved in a partisan political debate? and she replies , she dodged the she replies, she dodged the question. you won't say that gary neville won't appear again. and that was what he did on itv. not in a not in sort some way separate. so i wonder if there's been some backtracking, been going on here. i think there has. and also, remember what happened piers to down no happened with piers to down no no still be dancing . nobody no still be dancing. nobody thinks didn't remember these thinks you didn't remember these things of me. things and. he knows it of me. remember happened with remember what happened with piers morgan with good morning britain obviously britain and it did obviously affect of the show affect the ratings of the show once that happened. so i once once that happened. so i think know is that itv think you know is that itv learning lessons that if learning their lessons that if they immediately they do moves to immediately cancel someone to fire someone on the of someone being on the back of someone being offended . you know, it just

offended. you know, it just seems sort i would say it seems serious backtracking because when i read it in the papers, it seemed certain that he was going . i mean, was some sort of . i mean, it was some sort of heavy releasing information heavy releasing of information that clarkson was going found. mccall wasn't it? it did seem that brendan davis anyway the have to backtrack. they have have got to backtrack. they have got with jeremy got a former coach with jeremy kyle course itv . i think when kyle of course itv. i think when they got this, when they when they got this, when they when they got this, when they when they got me think maybe this they got me to think maybe this being lessons from being some lessons learnt from that. bruce willis. that. how about bruce willis. yes being seen yes with bruce willis being seen out and about in santa monica this week, it's the first time we've seen him since the diagnosis of him having dementia . i don't know if we've got the photos now. we don't. and there was lovely photographs of was some lovely photographs of him out and about. but he did look frail. it be. look quite frail. it had to be. but it was heartening to see him around fa to look quite around with his fa to look quite good be he looked in good good to be he looked in good form , looked like it. he'd been form, looked like it. he'd been working out , looked quite trim. working out, looked quite trim. i mean, i know obviously that, you know, got to make sure you know, he's got to make sure and everything. but i thought, you know, he's got to make sure and evlooked]. but i thought, you know, he's got to make sure and ev looked betteri thought, you know, he's got to make sure and ev looked better than|ght, oh, he looked better than i thought. okay. well i'm,

thought. okay, okay. well i'm, i'm thinking of him. you know, first of all, that's what it is, you at least not 20 you know, at least not 20 anymore. something anymore. that's something that is true . we got a final story. is true. we got a final story. yes this one made me laugh. so angry. but can he play because sorry, he played matt hancock in this england. this a life imitating art imitating life. and i'm not quite sure which one he's actually been caught this time as matt hancock having an affair and has left is his longsuffering wife amy not so for his and into the party and the party literally it could be the party literally it could be the hand of the us from that was sarah robertson thank you very much indeed . always giving us much indeed. always giving us the latest on the showbiz. obviously had a chris hope on today and darren grimes too. they've been fantastic all morning that's it for us today. sadly, we've had a lively show we have indeed talking about what's going on, whether it was boris, whether it was sue gray giving you all the latest there

anyway , that's it for us. and up anyway, that's it for us. and up is andrew pierce . don't go is andrew pierce. don't go anywhere. and we'll be back with you tomorrow. and hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office. much colder weather is on the way for next week, but for the time being, well, it's a similar to the last few days. driver most some brightest guys in the north also quite chilly but with light winds and some sunshine coming through actually in a few spots not too unpleasant send the brightest skies for the rest of friday will be across parts of scotland. the clouds breaking somewhat and some sunny spells coming into the north of england as well. i think we'll keep a lot cloud elsewhere, but for the vast majority it is dry. a few showers affecting the far north of scotland in particular orkney , and temperatures roughly similar to the last few , 7 to similar to the last few, 7 to 9 celsius. then into the evening, we'll see those clear spells in the north tend to develop a bit

more widely and drift further south as well , where we do get south as well, where we do get clear spells of course, temperatures will fall and we'll see a frost in places. but we'll hang on to a lot cloud actually for southern and eastern areas. northern ireland and northern scotland. we'll see some showers arrive by the end of the night as well. those showers will be falling as sleet and snow over hills, but rain at lower now into this start of saturday. it's very similar to friday. we'll see the brightest guys across central and southern scotland . some sunshine into scotland. some sunshine into western parts of england as well as wales. but so increased signal for some showers around some of these north sea coasts. northern as well. and it's going to start to feel colder. temperatures are beginning to fall away at this stage for shetland in particular that's where the cold air is coming from. northerly winds starting to arrive later saturday. we'll likely see a few flakes of snow across shetland as those northerly winds dig in. but the

cold air sweeps nationwide on sunday and into monday. chances some snow in places, mainly around coastal areas .

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