they shall grow not old as we that are left grow old age shall not weary them , nor the years not weary them, nor the years condemn at the going down of the sun . sun. >> and in the morning we will remember them welcome to our special armistice day coverage on gb news. with me tom harwood. we've got a lot to cover this morning. we'll be bringing you the most informative coverage from here in the studio and the latest action from our reporters around the country. and remember , through it all, send us your thoughts and memories at gb views at gbnews.com but . views at gbnews.com but. but before all of that, let's

get your latest news with tamsin roberts . roberts. >> tom, thank you and good morning from the gb newsroom it's 10:01. a major police it's10:01. a major police operation has been launched to prevent disorder in london with pro—palestinian protesters set to stage their biggest rally to date. well, hundreds of thousands of people are expected to descend on the capital. today's march coinciding with armistice day, a ring of protection has been established around the cenotaph ahead of a national two minute silence which will be observed at 11:00, almost 2000 officers are being deployed across the weekend with exclusion zones set up to prevent protesters from entering locations where remembrance services are being held . shadow services are being held. shadow defence minister luke pollard says it's right to honour those who served in conflicts and paid the ultimate sacrifice . the ultimate sacrifice. >> it does seem that this year's

armistice day matters more than the ones in recent years and that's because war seems closer to the uk than it has done for a very long time. the illegal and invasion of ukraine by putin and the events in the middle east mean that the screen, the pictures we're seeing on our tv screens at night of the horrors of war really bringing home the sacrifices that generations of brits have made in support of our country and of british values . values. >> saudi arabia is hosting an extraordinary joint islamic arab summit to address the war in the middle east. leaders are expected to strongly condemn israel's bombardment of gaza and call for an end to the displacement displacement of palestinians. that's as the humanitarian situation on the gaza strip continues to deteriorate . at the health deteriorate. at the health ministry, which is run by hamas, says operation options have been suspended at the al—shifa hospital after it ran out of fuel. israel has reopened an evacuation corridor allowing

civilians to travel from the north to the south of the territory. it also hopes a tactical pause in military operations will encourage more people to evacuate the area around the jabalya camp . around the jabalya camp. a mother who was found dead by her two children in manchester has been named by police . been named by police. perseverance nick gibb was found with a single stab injury in little hulton near salford in the early hours of yesterday morning. the 35 year old was taken to hospital where she later died. police say a 45 year old man who fled the scene has been arrested on suspicion of murder and remains in custody . murder and remains in custody. counter—terror police are investigating a deepfake video of the london mayor where he appears to suggest the pro—palestinian marchers should take priority over armistice day events , while a spokesperson for events, while a spokesperson for sadiq khan said the video has

been circulated and amplified on social media by far right groups. it's feared the clip could further inflame tensions in the capital as the pro—palestinian march coincides with the anniversary of the end of world war i. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car on digital radio and on your smart speaker. just say play gb news now it's back to . tom news now it's back to. tom >> thank you, tamsin. now, of course, it's armistice day today and in just under an hour's time , the nation will fall silent in memory and respect for those who have served in all wars. we reflect on the historical importance of this day and its continued significance. and i'm delighted to be joined, first of all, in this programme by the historian and author of the path to peace , sir anthony seldon . to peace, sir anthony seldon. now sir anthony , you have

now sir anthony, you have a letter in the times today. it talks about the contemporary issues of protests at a time of reflection . and i found one line reflection. and i found one line from it, particularly poignant. you say peace and mutual respect will prevail in the end . is that will prevail in the end. is that your view of how today will go .7 your view of how today will go.7 well let's your view of how today will go? well let's hope. >> let's hope that those people who are going to be protesting do respect the rights of others to reflect on people they knew their parents, grandparents, maybe siblings, friends who have died in conflict and for whom today is a very sacred day as it has been for the last 110 years, almost since the guns fell silent on november 11th, 1918.

so the group i represent were founded in honour of an idea by a soldier who fought in the first world war. who douglas gillespie , who had a dream about gillespie, who had a dream about a path across the whole of no man's land. 1000km from switzerland to the north sea. and he wanted every man, woman and child anywhere in the world to walk from all sides as a reminder of the horror and tragedy of war from, he said, the silent witnesses, i.e. the dead on both sides and that path is now being created. it is, we're told, the world's biggest commemorative project . i wrote commemorative project. i wrote about it in the book called the path to peace. it's called the western front way. and yes, we had planned a silent one hour walk in memory of that soldier and the vision over the weekend , and the vision over the weekend, but it's had to be abandoned because of the temperature in

london this weekend. and we just felt it would be unwise to. but, you know, we're not going away. and i do believe that the majority of people in our country want to find common ground with others and to reach out across divides of religion and belief, to try and find what we share as human beings together. and that was the vision of the soldier. >> well, let's hope that at those commemorative plans can be in place in the future if they can't be this weekend . sadly, can't be this weekend. sadly, sir anthony , i do want to ask sir anthony, i do want to ask about the history of remembrance day in the united kingdom. how did this this, this, i suppose, moment of national reflection come about and endure for, as you say, almost 110 years now . you say, almost 110 years now. >> so as the war dragged on and

of course , people thought at the of course, people thought at the beginning it would be over by christmas, 1914, but when it went on through 1915, the somme in 1916, passchendaele in 1917, people were groping around to try and make sense of it all. >> and the idea came of silence. it came out of south africa and came into this country and the idea came with it of the unknown soldier , somebody who would be a soldier, somebody who would be a focal point. and they're unknown aloneness. their silence would be there for speak for all those people who died in the conflict and in memory of all those whose lives were shattered . some lives were shattered. some million soldiers died in the first world war, but three, 4 million had their lives broken down because of injury and because of mental damage.

shellshock after it. so the idea there we can see the cenotaph. edwin lutyens, the great architect at the beginning of the 20th century, he initially in 1919, the structure you see was made of wood and the french had the idea first of a of a national memorial . and so the national memorial. and so the prime minister of the day, lloyd george, panicked and thought, well, britain has to do it. and france is so invited. the premier architect of the day , premier architect of the day, lutyens, to construct a wooden structure, a cenotaph meaning empty tomb in the heart of british government whitehall . british government whitehall. and it proves so popular in 1919 that outpouring of emotion that the decision was taken to erect a permanent memorial , as you see a permanent memorial, as you see there. and that is the memorial was up for 1920. the tradition then started of all the royal family the national leaders meeting there for two minutes of

silence on the 11th of november. and that was the tradition. it was suspended during the second world war for a time. and then restarted with the added names of all those hundreds of thousands who were slaughtered, died and maimed in the second world war. and because it is remarkable that we set up these traditions, we constructed the cenotaph, we started remembering those who died in the war that was supposed to end all wars and only a few years later , young only a few years later, young men were being sent back into europe, fighting in north africa, fighting across the world. >> i suppose that asks a difficult question of remembrance. it asks a difficult question of the united kingdom's approach to this all. if we're

remembering those who have fallen in war, are we to warmonger bearing a society ? we warmonger bearing a society? we have had so many wars following the first world war. where does that leave us as a society ? that leave us as a society? >> so i think today is all about and i'm head of a school myself in schools , in communities in schools, in communities across the country, the commonwealth and beyond, people are remembering the fallen and not in any glorifying sense that is glorifying war. >> but in a sense of honour and silence and awareness, empathy for the sacrifice. so i think that's important to say . for the sacrifice. so i think that's important to say. nothing that's important to say. nothing thatis that's important to say. nothing that is warlike about today's ceremonies all around the country . and i think the big country. and i think the big

difference with the first and second world war is the first world war was punitive. we can now say to germany and that treaty of versailles engendered a bitterness that blossomed . and a bitterness that blossomed. and 15 years later, with the rise of hitler in 1933 and six years later, the outbreak of the second world war. and that was a lesson that those people who are thinking about the second world war and how to have a settlement after it , they didn't fall into after it, they didn't fall into that trap . they were concerned that trap. they were concerned to build germany and to build a democratic germany . and that is democratic germany. and that is what has happened. so i think for many people , perhaps the for many people, perhaps the lesson is , as churchill himself, lesson is, as churchill himself, churchill didn't feel any sense of triumphalism , just of triumphalism, just a terrible, painful tragedy and empathy about the conclusion of

the second world war. i remember being with somebody who was with him when he heard the news about hitler being killed in the bunker and thinking his life in the bunker. he didn't punch the air in delight. he just went very , very quiet. there is that very, very quiet. there is that sense of trying to rebuild with the best of humanity and trying, as this soldier, douglas gillespie , with the path of gillespie, with the path of peace, the western front way was striving to. let's find the common ground. let's respect people who may think differently. we may have differently. we may have different backgrounds because we as human beings share so much more that we have in common the love for our children and the desire for peace , the desire to desire for peace, the desire to flourish and prosper. then then the things that divide us. well, that's the lesson . well what a that's the lesson. well what a profound note to end this part of the show . of the show. >> sir anthony seldon, thank you

so much. of course, contemporary historian and author of the path to peace, really appreciate your time this morning. to peace, really appreciate your time this morning . well, let's time this morning. well, let's widen this discussion now. joining me in the studio throughout the show are esther mcvey, mp for tatton and philip davies , mp for shipley. esther, davies, mp for shipley. esther, phil , great davies, mp for shipley. esther, phil, great to see you this morning. i found something that sir anthony seldon said there. really profound that that this isn't about triumphal ism. this isn't about triumphal ism. this is about solemn remembrance. esther do you think that sometimes some people get the wrong end of the stick when they see the poppy, when they see remembrance day? some people feel like it is a triumphalist thing, which which it's not at all they might do. >> but that's why it's so important to have remembrance day. it's only one day out of 365, and it is to remember what happened. 365, and it is to remember what happened . it is, as people say, happened. it is, as people say, to make sure it doesn't happen again. the use of diplomacy rather than war. all those people who did give their lives so we could be here. that's why

i think it's so important. and i think what we don't want on this day that's why you've had in day and that's why you've had in a the polls that 50% a lot of the polls that 50% wanted this march banned is because people don't want a distraction from that remembrance. they don't want to confuse vision of what it's about. protests are more about creating chaos and creating something else. talking about something else. talking about something else. talking about something else. so we need to remember our our fallen . and i remember our our fallen. and i think it's really important that we do that. and the longer it is away from the first world war, the more important it is to remember. because i think the human memory is probably 80 years. that is the life expectancy of a human being. and it really is important we drill that message home and it's so much profound, i suppose much more profound, i suppose more years now since more than 100 years now since the end of the first world war, we're losing sense sort we're losing that sense of sort of cultural memory that we need to push forward . the pain isn't to push forward. the pain isn't as close and we need to remember that. >> phil , do that. >> phil, do you think that the government and the police have

got it right today in in allowing a protest to take place? yes. after for the 11:00 silence and, yes, a mile or so away from the cenotaph. but is it right to allow that that marching through london for a very, very different sort of set of sensibilities? no i think the police have got this wrong. >> i think the police should have stopped the march from going ahead. i'm all for freedom. i'm all for the freedom to protest as long as it's peacefully . but look, there's peacefully. but look, there's a there's and a place for there's a time and a place for everything. it's one weekend a yeah everything. it's one weekend a year. as i said, it's one time of the year. surely everybody can put everything aside for one weekend of the year to solemnly remember those people who've sacrificed everything for those freedoms. it's too not much to ask. people can have a protest next week. they've had them the week before and the week before that. week before and the week before that . i don't really week before and the week before that. i don't really think it's too much to ask that we could just all come together as a

country and solemnly remember those people who sacrificed everything for i think everything for us. and i think the police have got this completely wrong. thought completely wrong. and i thought when anthony seldon said, you know, the silent walk that was planned has had to be cancelled because of this, that brings home to me how wrong the police have been making this have been in making this decision . decision. >> that is, of course , a very, >> that is, of course, a very, very sad . and did you see the very sad. and did you see the front page of the daily mirror yesterday , which was which was yesterday, which was which was sort of drawing the two issues together? it was saying that we should respect of course, those who served for the country , but who served for the country, but they served for the country to enable us to have the freedoms to perhaps go on distasteful marches. do you see that point of view? >> yeah, i understand that point of view, and i'm not against people having protests and marches about issues where i disagree with them. that's that is. but surely we if we if we want to reflect on the fact . and want to reflect on the fact. and give praise to those people who

defended our freedoms, surely we can spend this weekend solemnly remembering them. we don't need to go on a protest this weekend in order to show that we've got those freedoms we can do that every other weekend. it's not too much. >> isn't it about balancing freedoms as well? yes, it's the freedoms as well? yes, it's the freedom march, is the freedom to march, but it is the freedom to march, but it is the freedom other people to go freedom for other people to go about their day life. it about their day to day life. it is freedoms that people from is the freedoms that people from the jewish communities, we shouldn't be frightened and have to inside. it balancing to stay inside. it is balancing those up. and there is i would say if you look, this has been going, as you said, for 110 years. these are the protesters. this their fifth week of this will be their fifth week of marching . and actually people marching. and actually people have into question have brought into question common decency under standing. actually, the solemn reflection on that is very much of the uk. and i think that's what you do you balance up all those and people that's why people have requested please don't do it please listen to us as well. we're listening to you. we've heard what you said. but no, the

protesters are saying our what we're protesting about is more important . and we want you to important. and we want you to hear we've got to say. and hear what we've got to say. and i think that's what we don't like because that's a like because that's not a balancing of freedoms. that balancing up of freedoms. that is of somebody else. is a dominance of somebody else. >> think a really >> i think that's a really profound point. esther. phil we'll be back with you throughout the show, course. throughout the show, of course. but the former chair but coming up, the former chair of defence select committee, of the defence select committee, tobias will be joining tobias ellwood, will be joining me to share thoughts on armistice day events and of course, those protests . it's

and people that i knew had dewbs & co weeknights from . & co weeknights from. six >> welcome back to your armistice day coverage here on gb news with me tom harwood. we've been looking at ceremonies across the united kingdom this morning and we'll be turning to all different corners of the united kingdom in just a moment. but for now, let's speak to the former chair of the defence select committee, ellwood select committee, tobias ellwood mp. tobias thank you so much for making the time for us here on the 11th of november. i suppose i want to start by broadening this conversation out so far in the programme we've spoken a lot about the first world war, we've spoken a bit about the second world war, but of course there are veterans of from far more recent wars who potentially really feel like they're not receiving enough help and

support and frankly respect from the country. as things stand, are we doing enough for our veterans today ? veterans today? >> i think we have a contract with anybody that signs the armed forces that steps forward and puts the uniform on. they do something quite exceptional for our country , arguably beyond the our country, arguably beyond the call of duty of other walks, of life. and we owe them a debt of gratitude once they've packed up their uniform, slid it back across to the quartermaster for the last time to look after them for the rest of their lives. and sadly, we don't do enough of that. one of the important aspects of the poppy appeal itself is to raise important funds for the royal british legion and indeed other charities to support those who may require help, whether mental, physical or others. and indeed the families as well. so it's important on this special day for us to reflect not just of thanks and the gratitude of those who've worn the uniform in the past. those past sacrifices rightly in the first and second

world wars, but also those who have served more recently to make sure that we do provide the necessary support they require. if they require it now or in the future . future. >> yeah, it always shocks me the proportion of homeless people in the united kingdom who have served for queen and country now king and country of course, in the past. does that show that there's been some sort of failure in terms of support , in failure in terms of support, in terms of not just charitable support, but state support for those who've worn the king's uniform? >> you know, johnny mercer, the veterans minister, and i prior to that and other veterans ministers have worked very hard to make sure we do provide the necessary support. it's always saddening, disheartening to see somebody who wore the uniform , somebody who wore the uniform, who is then homeless. it's worth stressing that this the stats are no worse for anybody in the armed forces who served in the past compared with any other walk of life. we need to make that very, very clear indeed. but you're right. as i go back

to my we need to go the to my point, we need to go the extra mile. that's why we created the armed forces covenant, a commitment by businesses, by charities, by the government itself to make sure we do look after those who require support. extra funding has come in, but we can always do more . do more. >> hm. >> hm. >> it's interesting looking at the state of the british army right now. there has been a perhaps a degradation of its size , a shrinkage of the number size, a shrinkage of the number of people in our standing army, perhaps it's a less well equipped army than we have had in the past. is that an issue going into the going into the future, going into a very uncertain world with with perhaps more acute state threats alive in this decade than at any time since before the fall of the berlin wall ? the berlin wall? >> oh, yes. i think you cover such an important point. and the penny hasn't really dropped . i

penny hasn't really dropped. i would actually argue that our armed forces are extremely highly trained, the most professional, the most motivate in the world. their equipment is second to none. they're simply not enough personnel. and there's not enough equipment for there's not enough equipment for the very point you've made. we've entered another dangerous and complex era. we've become complacent since the fall of the berlin wall , complacent since the fall of the berlin wall, in fact, and other nafions berlin wall, in fact, and other nations , non—state actors, as nations, non—state actors, as well as states , are taking well as states, are taking advantage of that. i'd go further to say that this recent conflict in the middle east is perhaps a another flashing light on the international global order dashboard. there are too many flashing lights for the west to compete with, and our adversaries are grouping together, forming alliances , together, forming alliances, rearming, regrouping the 1970s all over again . and we haven't all over again. and we haven't really woken up to that . really woken up to that. >> that's a stark warning that perhaps we're not not appeasing our enemies. but certainly not

having the capacity city that were we to see a repeat of the 1930. heaven forfend we wouldn't be up to it. what should we be doing in order to bolster our own security here at home? >> it's not just about bolstering our own security, which is absolutely important . which is absolutely important. investing further in our armed forces. we need to move up to 3. but it's also repairing our international rules based order. the united nations is now reaching its league of nations moment, if you like. it's no wonder no longer able to hold errant nations to account. other international forces are grouping together , alliances are grouping together, alliances are regrouping , countries are regrouping, countries are weaponizing and the west is lacking a sense of focus, a sense of purpose as to what we believe and what we stand for, what we're willing to defend. we're doing quite well in ukraine, but we haven't really put that fire out. and now the middle east, you know, we're focussed hamas, understand focussed on hamas, understand that focussed on, you that we're focussed on, you know, the palestinians well , know, the palestinians well, it's behind that. is iran . and

it's behind that. is iran. and iran has taken advantage of how timid, how risk averse we've become since the iraq invasion back in 2003 with its proxy influence. and then we see what china is doing as well. and many countries around the world, particularly what's now called the global south, taking a back seat. i've said this before, but i stress it again. our world is in danger of splintering into two spheres of competing influence, and it's getting all the more dangerous, all the more reason why, as we respect and pay reason why, as we respect and pay tribute to past sacrifices, we take a look at what's coming around the corner. we're entering a very dangerous era indeed. it's fascinating to look at iran and perhaps this growing from what many people have described as a new axis of evil. >> the connection between iran, china, russia and to a lesser extent, north korea. these countries seem to be wanting to

influence things in other countries and i wonder to what extent has iran and of course , extent has iran and of course, their funding of terrorist groups that are out to destroy israel has that influence cost anything in the united kingdom, do you think? do we need to be more aware to state interference and perhaps the malign influence it has not just on our civic life, but our too , politics too? life, but our too, politics too? >> well, we are simply absent of an iran strategy. we try to appease iran in the fog of this conflict and indeed, in other of their proxy influences, they are pushing forward with their nuclear weapon experiments. they're developing a stronger relationship with russia. they're actually supporting russia's efforts in ukraine and sitting behind russia, of course, is china . they're course, is china. they're developing a relationship as well. and what is the west doing about it? what is our grand plan? what is our vision to, you know, underscore and defend our international rules based order and we, as i say, have become

too timid, too risk averse in deaung too timid, too risk averse in dealing with these big challenges ahead . and we should challenges ahead. and we should recognise that we still have the power to do so. but it takes leadership, it takes a sort of churchillian statecraft for us to rekindle what we seem to have lost since the end of the cold war. >> well , war. >> well, tobias ellwood, former chair of the defence select committee, and of course , a committee, and of course, a veteran yourself, thank you so much for making the time for us here on the 11th of november on our special armistice day program , sam esther and phil are program, sam esther and phil are still with me, and phil, i suppose very often remembrance day is about thinking back to the past, but tobias made an important point about the future there too. >> no , that's absolutely right. >> no, that's absolutely right. >> no, that's absolutely right. >> and i think one of the key things about armistice day is, is not just looking back at what happened, but making sure that never happens again is a key part of it. and, you know, i think tobias is absolutely right about the state of our defences in this country and how much we probably don't invest enough. i

think the money that we invest is not always spent wisely as well. it has to be said, you know, some of the procurement is goes way over budget and way over time. so think the over time. and so i think the defence department needs to do much spending the much better at spending the money have. but i think money they have. but i think tobias is right. you know, in the cold war, yes, it was there was threat there that we was a real threat there that we were up to. but the world were faced up to. but the world that may have gone, but that threat may have gone, but the world now far more the world is now far more uncertain than back then. uncertain than it was back then. and therefore defence of the realm is the first priority of the government and i think the problem is it might not always be politically convenient. you know, there's not many votes in the short term in putting more money in defence not putting money in defence and not putting it for example, the nhs or it in. for example, the nhs or in cuts , but actually we in tax cuts, but actually we rely the government to make rely on the government to make long term strategic decisions which always politically which aren't always politically popular . and i think we've lost popular. and i think we've lost a bit of that country a bit of that in this country over recent years. >> do think we're >> esther, do you think we're sleepwalking into a new cold war ? >> 7. >>i ? >> i definitely think the clouds are forming ahead of us. you're

quite right. from we saw the russia—ukraine situation bubble up.and russia—ukraine situation bubble up. and from there, as the west stood back and said, we're going to stand with ukraine and not russia and we're actually going to make sure we alienate them. what you saw is this new grouping coming together. what you saw is this new grouping coming together . so you grouping coming together. so you saw china coming over to russia. you saw iran coming over to russia. saw seen pakistan russia. you saw seen pakistan and african and the sort of african emerging states . and i thought that's states. and i thought that's made a divide and a new team made a new divide and a new team of sort of two groups of people in this sort of geo sort of political sort of time. and i think we need to be alert to that. that's why really, when you looked at what happened in gaza , when you looked at the gaza, when you looked at the palestine and israeli situation, you look at what hamas did that started off a war in a region , started off a war in a region, but actually it's called because civil disobedience and unrest and ethnic unhappiness in every country around the world. so this is where you've got the

conflict complications. it's not what's happening elsewhere. it's what's happening elsewhere. it's what bubbled up inside . and then what bubbled up inside. and then when see today, of the when you see today, one of the organs of the groups organs users of the groups creating this march creating supposedly this march for is mohammed suella, for peace is mohammed suella, who was one of the hamas leaders in the west bank. so you're saying this is a march for peace, but actually, who are the groups bringing this march forward ? and i think we're not forward? and i think we're not understanding all of this. it is very complicated . these are the very complicated. these are the new divides in the world, but it's playing out on streets it's playing out on our streets in the uk. >> and i think we should say that a lot of people on these marches that they marches would say that they denounce think it's denounce hamas. but i think it's actually absolutely clear. as you there lots you point out, there are lots of people on these marches who perhaps support hamas or even were part of hamas, it's were part of hamas, too. it's a it's a well, the muslim association britain is association of britain is arranged organised by, i said arranged organised by, as i said , by mohammed who was , by mohammed suella, who was a founder of the hamas on the west bank. deeply, deeply concerning. well, esther, phil, i know you'll be here on the sofa throughout the programme and indeed we'll be indeed coming up, we'll be bringing you all the latest

coverage from around uk. and coverage from around the uk. and of all corners of the of course all corners of the united kingdom as we head towards that two minutes of silence at 11 am. we're looking at live pictures of rochdale at the moment and the cenotaph in that town

sunday mornings from 930 on. gb news a very warm welcome back to our

continued armistice day coverage with me tom harwood here on gb news. >> now, of course, in just under 20 minutes time, the nation will fall silent in memory and respect for those who have served in wars across the united kingdom. and we'll be covering these events right around the country . we olivia utley our country. we olivia utley our political correspondent . it is political correspondent. it is in westminster sophie reaper is in westminster sophie reaper is in rochdale. jack carson is at the national arboretum and dougie beattie is in belfast. well, let's go to you first. olivia what are we expecting to see at the heart of london today ? >> 7- >> hello. 7_ >> hello. yes, 7 >> hello. yes, i'm ? >> hello. yes, i'm here 7 >> hello. yes, i'm here at the cenotaph at 11:00 today, there will be a ceremony organised by the western front association . the western front association. i'm not sure if you can see, but there are already crowds gathering on whitehall behind me. the police presence is huge. the police clearly are not taking any risks. today there's a ring of steel, as they taking any risks. today there's a ring of steel , as they call a ring of steel, as they call it, around the cenotaph , a ring it, around the cenotaph, a ring of also down on

of policemen also down on parliament square. there is a ring of steel around the churchill statue. the hope and expectation is that the pro—palestine marches , which are pro—palestine marches, which are set to begin at 12:00, they've been given a prescribed route, which is set to avoid whitehall and the cenotaph, and we're expecting the event today at the cenotaph. the remembrance event to finish at 12:00. so mark rowley, the head of the met, is certain seems convinced that these two events will not run into each other. there will be a dignified event today at the cenotaph. the march later on, and no reaction between the two. so if anything does kick off a little bit later, then there is going to be huge political scrutiny on the prime minister, on the home secretary, and on mark rowley next week . but at mark rowley next week. but at the moment we are all waiting for 11:00 for the minute's silence we will have here. there'll be a laying of wreaths, there'll be representatives from there'll be representatives from the cadets of the army , the navy

the cadets of the army, the navy and the raf . here there will be and the raf. here there will be the last post will be played by a bugler. it's got to be a really beautiful event. and let's just hope that the rest of the day passes off in a dignified . dignified manner. >> and olivia, just to stick with second, what's with you for a second, what's the mood amongst the crowd there? is it is it it looks quite >> is it is it it looks quite busy where we can see. busy from where we can see. >> it is very busy here. the mood here from what i can see, everyone is just waiting and pretty respectful silence , pretty respectful silence, mostly for the 11:00 silence. a little bit further up whitehall. there is quite a noisy group of we think it's football fans. there's lots of saint george's flags behind me, but police have told me that they're expecting that to quieten down come 11:00. at the moment there is absolutely no sign at all of any pro—palestinian marchers who, as i say, aren't set up to take off until 12:00 today. >> good news. thank you very much. olivia, there from the

cenotaph on whitehall . let's cenotaph on whitehall. let's cross across now to rochdale , cross across now to rochdale, where sophie reaper is reporting and sophie rodger ardales cenotaph this week holds a pretty special significance, but perhaps for the wrong reasons . perhaps for the wrong reasons. >> yes, indeed, tom, there has been quite a controversy here in rochdale in the last week or so. but as we approach 11:00, there are dozens of people already gathered here around the cenotaph , people proudly wearing cenotaph, people proudly wearing their poppies as some of them bringing wreaths to lay on the cenotaph here behind me, people wearing military uniform. one gentleman even laid a union jack on the cenotaph a little bit earlier on. but that feeling of country pride is there is a feeling of what has been going on here this week because greater manchester police are still present . there are, still present. there are, i would say, around 8 to 10 gmp

officers present here at the cenotaph , ensuring that those cenotaph, ensuring that those incidents that have happened that this week, things like graffiti on the cenotaph , that graffiti on the cenotaph, that those kind of things are not able to happen again whilst people take in the moments of silence, which will be happening shortly . and as well, just shortly. and as well, just taking those moments of reflection to remember our fallen veterans here today . fallen veterans here today. >> well, sophie, it's just so sad that it's necessary to have those police guarding guarding that that cenotaph. we'll be back with you later in the programme. let's cross to jack carson now at the national. let's cross to dougie beattie apologise, who is in belfast for us, and dougie , does the sense us, and dougie, does the sense of i suppose, division in northern ireland feed into this or is this day in northern ireland something that all communities can get behind ? we communities can get behind? we >> well, tom, it is a very complicated relationship with

the poppy day in northern ireland. but of course, people have to remember that at the end of the first world war, ireland was still as one and part of the united kingdom . there wasn't one united kingdom. there wasn't one village in the whole of ireland, nonh village in the whole of ireland, north or south, that didn't lose someone in that particular conflict. and it is remembered quite well here. remembrance day is very, very important to the veterans here, although as i say, there is a complicated relationship on a community basis. even today there was meant to be a protest here with the police , an organised ours, the police, an organised ours, but there is a very light touch policing here at this moment in time and it's been a challenge for the new chief constable john bucha, who only came into place earlier on this week. and you could see the light touch in front of me. but if you off could see the light touch in fron side me. but if you off could see the light touch in fron side streetst if you off could see the light touch in fron side streets here>u off could see the light touch in fron side streets here in off the side streets here in belfast, you will find snatch land rovers and the ready to get into action very, very quickly and unfortunate that has been a way of life in northern ireland

for many , many years. and let's for many, many years. and let's not forget that the poppy day itself in 1987 was the victim of an ira bomb in enniskillen that killed 12 people. so that relationship continues . but relationship continues. but today, here in belfast, the crowds are now gathering and those that served and those that are related to those that served are related to those that served are here. but when you stand here and you look at the silence and you look down in amongst the crowd, you can tell who has seen action and who didn't. crowd, you can tell who has seen action and who didn't . because action and who didn't. because in that split moment of time, you can see most of them men going back to where they were and the reflection inside them. it is a group activity, if you like , remembrance. but in a lot like, remembrance. but in a lot of ways, tom, it is a very, very personal thing. >> well, dickie, thank you for that. really, really profound, i suppose , to think of those who suppose, to think of those who have served and what they go through at that moment. let's cross now to jack carson at the

national arboretum . and, jack, national arboretum. and, jack, what is going on there ? what is going on there? >> yeah, good morning to you, tom. so we're not far away from the start of the service here. you can probably hear the british army band playing a beautiful piece of music in the background . and as the guests background. and as the guests have their seats and are have taken their seats and are ready the start of this ready for the start of this service in five minutes service in just five minutes time, going to be time, we are going to be expecting her royal highness, the princess royal princess anne to join us for the service today. she's representing the royal family here today, laying that wreath, of course, after 11:00, taking part in that silence . and what's particularly silence. and what's particularly poignant about where this service is taking place today here at the armed forces memorial at the national memorial at the national memorial arboretum, is that there are over 16,000 names inscribed on the walls, all of them of people who died and gave them of people who died and gave the ultimate sacrifice to this country after the end of the second world war. and what's particularly poignant is when you corner of you walk round the corner of this memorial see this memorial and you see the names still being inscribed every month, of course, under

22, 23, it's that reminder on days like this that while remember , is traditionally, of remember, is traditionally, of course, remembering those who gave their lives in world war i and world war ii, so much since that and of course, the that and since, of course, the british formed , it's british legion formed, it's all about those every about remembering those every year give the ultimate year who give the ultimate sacrifice at 11:00 because of the way the memorial is designed here. what we'll see is through a gap in the wall. the light exactly at 11:00 on the 11th day of the 11th month will shine in the centre of that wreath. it's a it's a moment which brings tears, frankly, to a lot of people's eyes and particularly with the crowd here with so many of them. of course, here gathered as the special guests being veterans themselves . so as being veterans themselves. so as dougie was mentioning, a lot of remembrance, particularly today, is all about those personal experiences and those personal memories . but we're not too far memories. but we're not too far away from the service starting here. well, jack , thank you so here. well, jack, thank you so much for that. >> it's been really, really beautiful to see the ceremony

starting up, i suppose , and to starting up, i suppose, and to see all of the different elements of that. and it's been very, very good to speak to all of our reporters around the country as well. we're getting up to just ten minutes away now from the two minute silence and we're going to turn to our guests in the studio because i've been joined by ralph handel rafe heydel—mankoo, who, of course, is a historian, gb news regular , of course. and esther regular, of course. and esther and phil are still with me to. ralph, how how did this silence start? how did we come to associate a two minute silence with the act of remembering and remembrance itself ? remembrance itself? >> well, the two minute silence actually predates the ceremony that we're going to see shortly . that we're going to see shortly. it predates the cenotaph, even . it predates the cenotaph, even. it predates the cenotaph, even. it actually goes back to south africa in 19 18in cape town, where it was first at first marked. and the idea of the two

minute silence was that the first minute you would remember those who have returned home and the second minute be to the second minute would be to remember those who return remember those who didn't return the . but it wasn't until the forum. but it wasn't until an australian living in london wrote the press here and wrote to the press here and broached idea of remembrance broached the idea of remembrance that this that it took over in this country the king was gung ho country and the king was gung ho behind the behind it. king george, the fifth, said that the entire fifth, who said that the entire nafion fifth, who said that the entire nation no work, no nation should have no work, no sound no locomotion, that sound, no locomotion, so that all minds can be concentrated on reverent remembrance of our glorious dead . and the first glorious dead. and the first silence was held at buckingham palace, which is where very palace, which is where the very first day ceremony first armistice day ceremony took in in 1919. and the took place in in 1919. and the structure we're going to see today of the two minute silence, i think it's important to note we the famous post we have the famous last post normally . we may not normally sounded. we may not hearit normally sounded. we may not hear it today, but always normally you have the last post to start off with that to to start off with that used to be sounded in order to mark the sense was the end of the sense that it was the end of the end the the garrison was end of the day, the garrison was secure, but was also a bugle secure, but it was also a bugle call the wounded in the call to the wounded in the battlefield or those who were lost them find their way lost to help them find their way home. so symbolically , it's home. and so symbolically, it's

a summon the spirits of a way to summon the spirits of the dead the cenotaph, to the the dead to the cenotaph, to the empty tomb. you then get that two minute silence where we revere our our fallen after which you have the rouse which is essentially in the morning, the bugle call to get soldiers out of the bed. you have the to wake them up and then the rouse to of and that to get them out of bed. and that again, christian again, symbolises the christian idea judgement when idea of judgement day when the living the dead will rise up living and the dead will rise up together harmony and descend, together in harmony and descend, and structure of that also and the structure of that also replicates the night vigil. the two minute silence in the old days there would be a vigil over the dead in case they were just in or if they were in a coma or if they were unconscious, actually unconscious, they might actually not so that night vigil not be dead. so that night vigil , we are symbolically replicating through this two minute silence. and it's our way of we are guarding, of saying we are guarding, we are honouring and we are protecting dead . protecting dead. >> i suppose that that royal instigation of this ceremony, of this silence , i suppose that's this silence, i suppose that's why this is a commonwealth wide event. the origin as you mentioned, in south africa , but

mentioned, in south africa, but of course in australia , in of course in australia, in canada, in many other parts of the commonwealth. this is a very important day as well. >> that's right . terrifically >> that's right. terrifically important day. it was after the second world war that the name changed from armistice day to remembrance day because, of course, we were remembering many more than just those who fell in the uniquely, the great war. now, uniquely, britain marks two different dates. have armistice day and dates. we have armistice day and remembrance , but then remembrance day today, but then we also have remembrance sunday in canada, australia and elsewhere. everything is held on the 11th of the 11th, but we change things because in the second world war, every hour and every minute was so important to the couldn't the war effort that we couldn't risk wasting a day or spending a day not in the factories, not building munitions . and so the building munitions. and so the decision was made to have it on a that's why have a sunday. and that's why we have this tradition this unique tradition of actually remembrance on actually marking remembrance on two different but you're two different days. but you're quite right, it's still a vitally important day. and of course, also in france, it's a national america course, also in france, it's a natiknown america course, also in france, it's a natiknown as america course, also in france, it's a natiknown as veterans america course, also in france, it's a natiknown as veterans day,|erica course, also in france, it's a natiknown as veterans day, too.a it's known as veterans day, too. and the king was also

spearheading the idea of the cenotaph very much as well along with david lloyd george. and it was this day in 1920 that the was on this day in 1920 that the cenotaph unveiled at the cenotaph was unveiled at the same time that the tomb of the unknown was also unknown warrior was also created. and in fact , the created. and in fact, the unknown soldier from france was put into a gun carriage with a coffin draped in the union flag. and that was led to the cenotaph where the king pressed a button and the union flags draping. the cenotaph fell to the ground and he then processed with with the gun carriage to westminster abbey for the tomb of the unknown warrior. so it's on this day that those two most significant and most sacred . of significant and most sacred. of our remembrance icon were created. >> and i suppose that the unknown soldier is such a profound and idea, it's always struck me when i visited graves of first and second world war soldiers. just how many of those graves don't have names on them? or they just say a soldier or an airman ? esther, how important is airman? esther, how important is it that we have this sort of

sense of symbolism that that unknown soldier could be the person that one family sort of knows is lost, but we never found the body of when there were the millions of people who died in world war i and world war ii. >> there'll be so many people that nobody would have been able to have claimed as their own. so thatis to have claimed as their own. so that is a symbol that that could have my son. that could have been my son. that could have been my son. that could have because have been my grandson, because i never anything returned from never got anything returned from that person i didn't know. so to be able to go somewhere that's quite to say , i see that quite sacred, to say, i see that as my child , i can take a moment as my child, i can take a moment to reflect because i don't have anything tangible to hold on to. i think that is so poignant and so necessary because so many people were left with nothing . people were left with nothing. >> and of course, fill this this ceremony . began after the first ceremony. began after the first world war. but but it's become to mean so much more because , of to mean so much more because, of course, people continue to fight and die for this country in wars

around the world. yeah, absolutely. >> and also it gives an opportunity for families to give thanks to their relatives who are currently serving and may be posted abroad and that they don't see. and i think it brings lots of people together. and remember different people, different events throughout history . i different events throughout history. i think different events throughout history . i think the other thing history. i think the other thing as well, which i've struck me, i've been the mp for shipley since 2005 and obviously, you know , tomorrow i'll be at know, tomorrow i'll be at bingley and baildon in my constituency at at their ceremonies. i've actually noficed ceremonies. i've actually noticed that each year since i've been the mp, more and more people attending the ceremonies at the cenotaph in the in the towns and i always think that's terrific , that even as time goes terrific, that even as time goes on from world war i and world war ii and there was a big and more people, iraq wasn't that. >> was big shift after >> there was a big shift after certain absolutely certain occasions. absolutely >> i think that's such an important point because actually, as britain's actually, in a way, as britain's become more secular and as our religious festivals have become less important, people don't

celebrate as celebrate easter or christmas as remembrance day, armistice day and remembrance sunday have become of civic religion, become acts of civic religion, and they've become much more sacred important. that's why sacred and important. that's why emotions running so high emotions are running so high today about these protests, because as if this because it's almost as if this is one of our two holy days. >> really interesting >> that's a really interesting point because, course, point because, of course, i suppose a lot of people think of christmas about, know, christmas as about, you know, family as joy, family celebrations as joy, levity, not so much about solemnity or quite reflection. i suppose it is the only day in the calendar really this weekend. >> that's why it's upset people so much that this would have been the fifth week now of the protests . they've done it every protests. they've done it every week, whereas as to us, is a one off occasion . and that's off special occasion. and that's why people have said, please respect it. it means a lot to us. it's not about noise and shouting and smoke . what do they shouting and smoke. what do they call it? smoke flares or anything like that? nothing about that. this is about standing quiet and reflecting. and i loved the what with the two minutes, for it was the

minute for those who returned and a minute for those who didn't. it was calling the dead back to the cenotaph. maybe we people don't know enough about what it is maybe that needs to be taught a little bit more in school. what was that all about ? school. what was that all about? to make sure that it does become which it one of our sacred days. >> now we're four minutes away from the silence now. and i just wanted reflect on, phil, what wanted to reflect on, phil, what you were mentioning there about the growing , i suppose, support the growing, i suppose, support for this occasion. that's something that you don't often hearif something that you don't often hear if you were just to watch the news or read the newspapers, you might think that this is a tradition that's going away . tradition that's going away. poppy tradition that's going away. poppy sellers feeling intimidated, all the rest of it, but actually sort of out there in there is a real in the country, there is a real sense of important this sense of how important this ceremony . ceremony is. >> yeah, certainly my experience is that it's growing in the number of people who go. i think the schools all get involved in the schools all get involved in the remembrance sunday the service, the church service and all the cadets and exactly . and all the cadets and exactly. and

the ceremony that goes on at the cenotaph . so i think the cenotaph. so i think the community really comes together from generations as and like from all generations as and like i say, it's just my observation that more and more people are attending now than when i first became the mp in 2000. >> people won't know how >> i bet people won't know how many services there many remembrance services there are in a constituency or a patch. there are very many. there's one. could 20 there's not one. i could have 20 tomorrow, i can only go tomorrow, of which i can only go tomorrow, of which i can only go to of them. there to a couple of them. there are many across people's constituency. >> every village, i mean every village. michael has their own . village. michael has their own. i go to the main ones in the main towns, but village main towns, but every village will their own ceremony. will have their own ceremony. >> suppose it >> and i suppose it is remarkable . every town, village remarkable. every town, village in the country, it seems, has a point where you can remember , point where you can remember, has a war memorial of some sort. >> rafe that's a good point actually, because prior to the great war in the 20th century, we didn't have those. the country only built memorials for victory and for great heroes. there was nothing for the common man. there was no memorial for people to actually pay tribute to the fallen. and in the great

war, the decision was made not to repatriate bodies as and actually so many bodies were completely destroyed and so many were unidentifiable there were unidentifiable that there was nothing at for people was nothing at home for people to see a spot for them to actually see a spot for them to actually see a spot for them to pay their respects . and to pay their respects. and that's had this that's why you had this profusion war memorials profusion of war memorials in every every hamlet, every village, every hamlet, every village, every hamlet, every town and every city, a place for the nation to come together. it's together. and so it's a it's a very recent creation that we have concept of have this whole concept of remembrance that so interesting. >> should just. we're >> i should just. mark, we're less two minutes away from less than two minutes away from the silence now. but this idea that it's something that is that is so national, so important, but also so introspective and personal, it's in it's almost a moment of contrast . it's in that way. >> esther yes. so when the bugle does play , i and everybody there does play, i and everybody there find that deeply emotional . i find that deeply emotional. i think then when the sort of the cannon sounds or the firework goes off again, all of these things mark a moment in time and all of them pulls on with the different sounds, the different

feelings, the prayers, the poems pull on a different emotion within you. it is spine tingling to be at one of these services. >> the thing that struck strikes me is that it's you would think after a big war that people might celebrate a victory in a war that we defeated germany. but actually, you don't get any of that on remembrance. and it is very, very occasion . is very, very solemn occasion. there's celebration there's no sense of celebration or anything like that. it was rafe said about memoria was there it's one there for victories. it's one day. it is pure, solemn silence and remembrance. and it is a it's very striking. there is no element of celebration at all. >> well, it's only 20s now until the silence. so i think we should take a pause there. and just perhaps reflect on what we might be thinking about during this silence. if we know people who have served, if we have family members who have fallen in previous wars, perhaps now is a moment to think of them and think of those who have fought

for our nation .

and there we have it, as the crowds in whitehall erupt into spontaneous applause there we've also seen ceremonies around the country take place, and i'm still with esther, phil and rafe and rafe , as we were saying, and rafe, as we were saying, this isn't just something that happensin this isn't just something that happens in london. this is happening right across the country. some ceremonies big, some small , country. some ceremonies big, some small, all all quiet, all

solemn. >> absolutely . the 11th hour >> absolutely. the 11th hour now. and also tomorrow, we remember the sacrifice. we remember the sacrifice. we remember the sacrifice. we remember the blood, sweat and tears that were spilled to secure our liberties. and, you know, we remember the lost dreams of those young soldiers who gave their today for our tomorrow and the liberties we all enjoy were secured at a very high price. and i think it's the least we can do to spend two minutes to reflect on all of that. and i'm not sure maybe my mind is fading in these days, but i don't think i've ever heard a round of applause before. >> we looked at each other and said the same thing after that. >> and i think the emotions are so occasion, so high on this occasion, particularly you're particularly that i think you're really a show of really seeing this is a show of support , i say, support from their, i say, the great majority saying great silent majority saying we're we to be we're here, we want to be counted. important day. >> yes, think there was pride >> yes, i think there was pride in that applause. i think there was maybe relief in that applause. it is . we are standing applause. it is. we are standing with you in that. but that spontaneity there, it was like a p0p

spontaneity there, it was like a pop coming out of cork, coming out of a bottle. but we felt it was positive, wasn't it? it was positive. celebrate in in remembering our fallen. and it was respectful . was respectful. >> there wasn't weeping. there wasn't anything wrong, dare i say it, gauche ? it was there was say it, gauche? it was there was a moment that was reflected , a moment that was reflected, marked and then moved on from. but tom, the whole things like that, i was just looking at people who stood there. >> everybody's come out in their best coat. you know, the military, of course, they look precise , nice and immaculate precise, nice and immaculate with the with their medals on. but everybody else there holding whether it is a wreath or whether it is a wreath or whether they're wearing a poppy the differential element of it the differential element of it the silence of it. i think that how dignified it is and it military precision and absolute everything that goes on again is something our country does so well. 11:00, the clock chiming the bugles, playing the silence falling upon a nation that is

very british. >> now, raf, of course, tomorrow we're going to see a ceremony where the king, the leaders of major parties, politicians take part in what's the difference between that and what we've just seen today? >> well, what we've seen today really is an informal an informal marking of the occasion . in fact, king george the fifth, when he actually first spoke about this, said he didn't want there to be any clear organisation necessarily beyond these everybody, wherever you are on the street and that very first armistice day was magical. how the traffic stopped in the streets, motorcars stopped , streets, motorcars stopped, horses stopped, people took off their hats. and if the idea of their hats. and if the idea of the free will of the people to actually demonstrate their own, their own, their own support for this tomorrow is, of course, the day for the grand occasion where we'll see the king. and as you say, government, all say, all of the government, all of and say, all of the government, all of ambassadors and say, all of the government, all of ambassadors giving and say, all of the government, all of ambassadors giving theind the ambassadors giving the formal official and diplomatic honour to the to the war dead . honour to the to the war dead. >> it's interesting, phil, i

suppose to some extent that formal occasion tomorrow , though formal occasion tomorrow, though today is today is perhaps more more local. but more more of the people, perhaps . yes. people, perhaps. yes. >> yeah. i think different towns do it differently. i think in some towns still on the 11th, they still have quite a big event on the 11th, whereas other towns sort of focus everything on remembrance sunday. so i think it is sort a slightly think it is sort of a slightly horses courses event . but i horses for courses event. but i think ralph mentioned there think what ralph mentioned there about the traffic stopping and everything you do see that tomorrow in the police will close the roads in in town so that the parade can go down from a point in a particular town to the centre . tough the traffic the centre. tough the traffic will stop . people will get out will stop. people will get out of their cars and join in the remembrance process. and, you know , and you will get know, and you will get spontaneous rounds of applause as the parade goes down the down the town into towards the cenotaph is very a moving occasion. >> esther , is there a worry now

>> esther, is there a worry now today and apologies for bringing this sort of, i suppose , back to this sort of, i suppose, back to reality. we know that there will be a protest in less than an hours be a protest in less than an hour's time. is there a worry that people will think , right, that people will think, right, that's it. we've had the respect that's it. we've had the respect that's over now and the mood will shift in london. well all i can say, let's hope not. >> that's what we do want to happen. you still need to respect the day that is what it's about. yes. this specific houn it's about. yes. this specific hour. but it's a whole day, actually . and i think that would hour. but it's a whole day, be wrong for anybody to think, oh, we've gone past that moment, now it's time for us. and the difference , as i said, between difference, as i said, between that solemn solemnity that how dignified that was, what we've just watched at that silence there to then the protests, the sort of the screaming, the noise, the flags, the, you know, the smoke flares, all the difference . know they must

difference. know they must remember what this is about. difference. know they must remember what this is about . and remember what this is about. and i think it would be up to them how they want today remembered that anybody goes on that protest or march must do it in a way that they don't get a backlash . should they show backlash. should they show disrespect ? we've seen 188 disrespect? we've seen 188 arrests, so far over the last four weeks. we don't want to see any more. and we certainly don't want any disrespect shown because people are waiting for it. people are waiting for that to happen . and they will say, to happen. and they will say, how could you do that to us on our most sacred of days? >> should be >> we should we should be grateful nothing interfered >> we should we should be grate'that nothing interfered >> we should we should be grate'that . nothing interfered >> we should we should be grate'that . yes,thing interfered >> we should we should be grate'that . yes, down nterfered >> we should we should be grate'that . yes, down whitehall . with, that. yes, down whitehall. so that's that's very good news. and i think we're all grateful for that. i think there clearly is a risk for the rest of the day there. quite clearly there's a risk. i mean, this is you know, the police didn't cancel the protest because they said there wasn't sufficient intelligence that there would be disorder. but well, look, police officers have been drafted in from all around the country. but

today, the police officers from nearly 2000 who have been nearly 2000 who would have been serving yorkshire today serving in west yorkshire today are london. are down in london. >> well, why don't we cross now live to site the protest live to the site of the protest where our home and security edhon where our home and security editor, mark white joins us. and mark, the protest is not yet beginning, but i suppose people must be gathering . must be gathering. >> yes, absolutely. hundreds already gathering here up in marble arch for the start of the protest march, which will, of course, begin from hyde park, go down park lane to hyde park corner and then make its way across vauxhall bridge into the us embassy. and it's got to be hoped , of course, that people hoped, of course, that people stick to that route. listen, there's one issue, of course, about whether this march on the timing that it's taking place of today, whether that's disrespectful, that's one thing and one argument. the other issue is whether this march is going to be violent. and i think the vast majority we can say

with certainty the vast majority of people that will be on this march will not be in any way violent , will not interested violent, will not be interested in making life difficult for the police or their surrounds. but it only ever takes a couple of hundred idiots to cause some real issues. i just want to give you a shot down there. you can see actually just some of the police are here now. these police who are here now. these are some the smaller are just some of the smaller police carriers, the police vans , just for the officers that are here. what you're not seeing are the officers who are in the side streets in the larger carriers en masse, dozens of carriers all around this way. we know there's up to 2000 officers that are on duty for this protest today . duty for this protest today. okay. and the hope is that they won't have to be called to in action in terms of their public order tactics. you can see the marchers here gathering . this is marchers here gathering. this is just in the square at marble arch. and there crossing in groups every time that the

traffic lights change to get across into that main assembly point in hyde park with the palestinian flags, they want to be here, of course, to voice their concerns about the horrific scenes that are unfolding in gaza. that's perfectly legitimate to voice those concerns for the innocent members of the public in gaza. but again, you know, we go to the point, should this be happening on, you know, such a solemn and dignified day as as armistice day here in london. you know, people will have opinions one way or the other on that. opinions one way or the other on that . now, we're past at least that. now, we're past at least that. now, we're past at least that point of armistice being remembered. we just have to hope that the march itself does not lead to those that may be intent on causing trouble, breaking off and confronting the police or indeed that counter—protest that is underway down around the

cenotaph. >> and mark, as you mentioned, that risk, the risk is of people breaking off from the official routes. you mentioned that police officers, some of those almost 2000 police officers are inside streets. is that intending to make sure that this route stays on its route to make sure that people don't veer towards whitehall or veer towards whitehall or veer towards the cenotaph ? no it's towards the cenotaph? no it's really all about proportionate policing. >> so you have officers there. there will be a visible presence of those officers and they'll march along with the marchers down there. but of course the others really are just in reserve of the hope is that they won't actually be called into action. but they're in side streets because they're just there. the nearest available area to where the march is and those you'll hear sirens all the time. and what that is , is, you time. and what that is, is, you know, three, four, half a dozen of these police carriers , these

of these police carriers, these large police vans repositioning, going to a different . area to going to a different. area to sort of meet the march when it's there. so the reason they're inside streets is just keep out of the way. they don't want they don't do kind don't want to do is kind of provoke violence . provoke people into violence. there'll be enough officers here in terms of a visible presence . in terms of a visible presence. but if they require the public order teams who are trained to deal with any outbreaks of disorder, then they will rush to the scene from these side streets just nearby . streets just nearby. >> and mark, just finally , give >> and mark, just finally, give us a sense of timings for this protest. when are things expecting to move . expecting to move. >> well, you know, they're always a bit fluid because it really just depends how organised the organised orders are. i've been on many marches over the years, we're told. 1245 well, let's see if they actually do get off at that time or perhaps with people still arriving , it just takes perhaps with people still arriving, it just takes a perhaps with people still arriving , it just takes a little arriving, it just takes a little bit longer. but at, you know, 1245 1:00 they're going to be, i would imagine , are underway or

would imagine, are underway or at least getting underway to head down on what is a three mile march down to the us embassy . mile march down to the us embassy. then mile march down to the us embassy . then they've been given embassy. then they've been given till about 5 pm. this evening to start dispersing. and that, of course , as we've known from of course, as we've known from previous protests , can be when previous protests, can be when there is trouble, when those that hardcore that might be bent on trouble don't want to disperse and really just want to stay and be abusive towards the police and, you know, have a go basically . okay. basically. okay. >> well, mark, thank you very much for that. we know we'll be back with you throughout the day. and let's hope that this march remains peaceful. day. and let's hope that this march remains peaceful . well march remains peaceful. well well, esther and phil are still with me here in the studio , but with me here in the studio, but i'm also joined by the former labour mp danczuk, and labour mp simon danczuk, and simon, i suppose we can all be thankful with how the two minute silence went. i think it was quite a profound moment. yes no, absolutely. >> it's a very solemn occasion, a very important day for the whole of britain and the vast majority of the public in the uk

will be pleased to have seen it go off nicely and calmly. >> just looking there at the gathering around marble arch . it gathering around marble arch. it doesn't look like there are a lot of people there yet. the start time i suppose, is 12, so perhaps that will grow. do you think do you get a sense that perhaps this won't be the half a million person march that some organisers have sort of trumpeted up to be? >> yeah, i think a lot of people will have been respectful and decided to stay away and listen to the debate that's taken place over the last week and concluded that the sensible thing is to give the wider british public that opportunity to reflect and remember those that have died on behalf of our country. so my concern is that the people who do turn up and i think you're right, it's going to be smaller numbers might be more trouble some difficult . and some and more difficult. and we'll only see whether that is the case as the day goes on. >> and suppose, phil, the risk

>> and i suppose, phil, the risk is perhaps not at this time of day, but as things get a bit later in the day, perhaps as the sun goes down, different groups might might meet each other. and isuppose might might meet each other. and i suppose that's where the security risk comes. >> yeah, without doubt . there >> yeah, without a doubt. there clearly a huge risk of clearly is a huge risk of disorder. i mean, don't think disorder. i mean, i don't think anybody can that. if anybody can deny that. and if there there wouldn't anybody can deny that. and if there been there wouldn't anybody can deny that. and if there been there police n't have been drafted police officers around the officers in from all around the country police country to assist the police must know that there is a huge risk of disorder. but look , i risk of disorder. but look, i think because they know that it makes they can be better prepared for it. makes they can be better prepared for it . and i think prepared for it. and i think that's usually the problem occurs when something kicks off and nobody was prepared for it. that's when you get the biggest issue. so hopefully the police are very well prepared and can nip anything in the bud. but that risk is certainly there today. >> so do think that we've >> so do you think that we've prepared the prepared enough that the government has prepared enough prepared enough that the govthis,|ent has prepared enough prepared enough that the govthis,|entthis prepared enough prepared enough that the govthis,|entthis day)ared enough prepared enough that the govthis,|entthis day ,ired enough prepared enough that the govthis,|entthis day , thatanough prepared enough that the govthis,|entthis day , that the|gh for this, for this day, that the metropolitan police, frankly, have prepared enough? >> only they >> well, we can only hope they have, as you said, they've brought in the goal brought everybody in the goal commanders there. absolutely i think was interesting,

think what was interesting, you're haven't think what was interesting, you'rtoo haven't think what was interesting, you'rtoo people haven't think what was interesting, you'rtoo people gathered seen too many people gathered yet for the protest. however, following all the news and the information and the intelligence yesterday, information and the intelligence yestercompanies information and the intelligence yester companies were actually coach companies were actually booked you couldn't get booked out. you couldn't get a place on anything to come down. they were saying. and the organisers were saying they did have those numbers. they were here you couldn't actually have those numbers. they were here another| couldn't actually have those numbers. they were here another sparein't actually have those numbers. they were here another spare place tually have those numbers. they were here another spare place tonlly have those numbers. they were here another spare place to come find another spare place to come here. so it'll be interesting to see what they arrive. see what time they do arrive. maybe had difficulties maybe they've had difficulties getting well. maybe getting into town as well. maybe that that, that wall of fire or wall of steel, i should say, went further out and has protected them. but as simon says , if only the most militant says, if only the most militant ones have come into town to make their case and protest, ones have come into town to make their case and protest , then their case and protest, then thatis their case and protest, then that is the most difficult to police. but the numbers of police. but the numbers of police then are sufficiently higher in proportion. >> i think we can safely say that the police will be well prepared because remember, mark rowley this big call not to rowley made this big call not to cancel , not to cancel it. if cancel, not to cancel it. if everything kicked off his position would be probably untenable having made that

decision. so i think we can safely say that the police will be prepared like they've never been prepared before for such an event because his entire future hangs on today. >> well , let's hangs on today. >> well, let's just have a look at live pictures now of some of these protesters gathering, i believe we can have a look at these pictures now. it does look sparse as things stand for those listening on radio, we can see people waving big palestinian flags. there's a tent, a couple of tents that have been erected, flag placards, but fairly sparse as things stand. and as i say, this is 40 minutes before the official start time. so perhaps things will grow. but simon danczuk, we have seen some disorder around the country in the last seven days. there were small skirmishes on whitehall last weekend and of course in rochdale we saw some wanton vandalism of the cenotaph. >> yeah , i used to be the mp for >> yeah, i used to be the mp for rochdale , so i know incredibly

rochdale, so i know incredibly well the vast majority of people in rochdale are very proud of their armed forces. in rochdale are very proud of their armed forces . there's a their armed forces. there's a very small minority of people there who don't like britain, quite literally , who are opposed quite literally, who are opposed to our military forces and opposed to british foreign policy abroad and they are making themselves known as they have done in rochdale over this last week that will be condemned by the vast majority of people in rochdale. i'm pleased to say it looks like the council's got a good grip of it. the greater manchester police have been keeping an eye on things and they've made arrests. apparently so that's good to know. i mean , so that's good to know. i mean, the final point there is that the final point there is that the local labour mp there is calling for a ceasefire, which is contrary to what keir starmer is contrary to what keir starmer is calling for. is contrary to what keir starmer is calling for . and indeed the is calling for. and indeed the position of the whole country in terms of government . terms of government. >> that is that is an interesting point we're looking at live pictures of rochdale now. it does like it is it now. it does look like it is it is going off very , very

is going off very, very smoothly. this ceremony , smoothly. this ceremony, everyone looks incredibly smart and i believe that is a part of the cenotaph behind those members of the armed forces, which is looking resplendent, frankly . it's gleaming in the frankly. it's gleaming in the sunshine at. and that graffiti has all been cleared off. >> oh, yeah. and it's a really special place in rochdale. it's very much at the centre of the town. it's directly in front of the town hall, which is which is a great 1800s building. and people are very as , as philip people are very as, as philip were talking about, people are very solemn about that particular place. and it's a it's an important place for remembrance. and i know the people who cleaned it soon after the graffiti appeared . people the graffiti appeared. people take a lot of pride in that particular part of the town , and particular part of the town, and it may well encourage more people to attend the ceremony today and tomorrow , i guess, in today and tomorrow, i guess, in rochdale. simon yeah , and you rochdale. simon yeah, and you were point earlier, were making the point earlier, phil more people phil, that people more people have out for these have been turning out for these

occasions. is a very big occasions. it is a very big occasions. it is a very big occasion in rochdale . more and occasion in rochdale. more and more people have turned out the most important day of the year in rochdale. i would say. >> i suppose as esther >> wow. and i suppose as esther esther, this one's to esther, perhaps this one's to you , there is this sense , i you, there is this sense, i suppose, that there is a greater silent majority than there is a loud minority on these issues. oh absolutely there is. >> and sometimes you want that silent majority to stand up and make a stance rather than letting that very vocal minority take over the news. the headunes take over the news. the headlines , the social media and headlines, the social media and actually , that isn't what most actually, that isn't what most people are thinking. the other thing i'm pleased to hear or i'm understand today, the police are going quicker to make going to be quicker to make arrests. what they've done arrests. and what they've done on the last four weeks where they've sort of on that side, i'm just hearing in my ear that there have been some reports of scuffles with the police from these protesters . these protesters. >> we don't have a full picture yet. doesn't sound like it yet. it doesn't sound like it was major incident, some

was a major incident, but some reports scuffles as we can reports of scuffles as we can get information, we will, get more information, we will, of course, bring it to you. but isuppose of course, bring it to you. but i suppose that does speak to sort of a few bad apples rather than an overall guiding sense that there is a deep division in this country . yeah. this country. yeah. >> and i think this is what the pubuc >> and i think this is what the public are calling for all along. they wanted police quick to act to stop it straight away. not policing . in hindsight, not this policing. in hindsight, getting footage referring to getting the footage referring to if it was fine you know they've got harassment got the laws causing harassment alarm and distress by threatening insulting threatening abusive insulting words or behaviour. they've got that and now i believe today they're using that they're going to be using that more forcefully . more forcefully. >> simon do you think that there is a sense that the police now are going to be acting more forcefully, doing things faster? >> is that is that well understood? and to some extent, has the political row this week and all the controversy around the home secretary and the

meeting of the prime minister and the head of the met and all the rest of it, has that influenced this? >> has. the >> well, i hope it has. the broader public want the police to act. they've very much to act. they've been very much behind the curve on this issue. there's doubt it. there's no doubt about it. as they were on the just stop oil protesters, they were behind the curve rarely made curve on that. rarely made arrests. protests eaters arrests. these protests eaters have learned from the just stop oil protesters. so they've been filling in, filling up train stations, stopping people from going about their business. it's just not acceptable. if they'd made arrests earlier on, then the protests would have been much calmer and much more civilised . now they're on the civilised. now they're on the back foot and let's see how they do today. >> it's interesting. this isn't it, because the police didn't intervene in the past because they that , you know, that they said that, you know, that would that would get more cause more protest because cause more violence and it would escalate the problems when it happened. that's why they did it retrospectively. so if they are making a change in policy today to be more proactive, it will be

interesting to see whether or not their initial view is true, that actually it does escalate the violence or whether it does actually nip it in the body. it will be interesting to see that. >> and what's your view on that, esther? you think that to esther? do you think that to some proactive some extent more proactive policing can actually keep things quite to the things calmer? quite to the contrary of what the protesters have been saying? >> i think people to know >> i think people need to know where the line. where the police draw the line. there's or buts. there's there's no ifs or buts. there's no of, oh, we can overstep, no sort of, oh, we can overstep, we them . no, this we can overreach them. no, this is will happen should you is what will happen should you do this, that or the other. and i police were i don't think the police were clear enough in what do. clear enough in what they do. and that allows people to push the boundaries, which is what we've seen. >> do you think there's a sense that there's a political taboo about politicians saying the police should do this, the police should do this, the police shouldn't do that. there's all this talk about operational independence, but i suppose to some extent there was a political consensus to criticise the police when it came to their handling of the sarah everard vigil. but when it

comes to the police, in other occasions , it seems like occasions, it seems like politicians can't criticise them. is there an inconsistency there? >> i think there is an incapacity latency and i think suella braverman has been right to call it out and there is a view in the country that the police are tough on some protesters and we can light on other protesters . and i think other protesters. and i think she's right to call it out . i she's right to call it out. i have no doubt on that. the thing is, there's a difference, isn't there, between operating independence and being able to comment on it. >> we all accept that the police are independent. are operationally independent. we all accept that the courts have a separation from have a separation of powers from parliament, that doesn't mean to say don't the right say that we don't have the right to our opinion and to to have our own opinion and to say to the police, we don't think you're doing right think you're doing this right or to we think to say to the courts, we think that was a really poor decision that was a really poor decision that made. we're within that you made. we're all within our to do that. things our rights to do that. things the are the the things that are the responsibility parliament. it responsibility of parliament. it doesn't mean to say nobody can criticise what we do. >> does the home secretary have a responsibility to a special responsibility to be more in that setting, a special responsibility to be more that in that setting, a special responsibility to be more that the in that setting, a special responsibility to be more that the police setting, a special responsibility to be

more that the police dotting, a special responsibility to be more that the police do do g, given that the police do do reports? i think ten, 15, 20 years have been years ago it would have been radically different. >> imagine david >> i cannot imagine david blunkett or john reid when they were home secretary , being were home secretary, being criticised for doing what suella braverman has done and it's not a party political issue, but i think blunkett would have said to the met chief constable , sort to the met chief constable, sort this out , i to the met chief constable, sort this out, i don't want this protest going ahead . and they protest going ahead. and they would have listened to him and why are we in a different time now ? now? >> at end of the day, it's >> at the end of the day, it's the get the the politicians who get the abuse not, you know, they're abuse not, you know, so they're perfectly entitled to have their say . say. >> well, mm- % return to this >> well, we'll return to this conversation moment. but of conversation in a moment. but of course, the weekend , course, across the weekend, we'll from gb we'll be hearing stories from gb news viewers remembering those lost in the great war. and at every war since. but it's not just about those. it's also about those who have survived, of course, many with wounds , of course, many with wounds, physical and mental and many destined to replay those memories for as long as they live. let's cross now to our london reporter lisa lisa hartle, who's at lancaster gate with a veteran in.

>> hello. yes, i'm joined with john dennett . john dennett. >> he's a world war ii veteran as well as jim from the london taxi charity. john, thank you so much for joining taxi charity. john, thank you so much forjoining us today. taxi charity. john, thank you so much forjoining us today . so much for joining us today. so just to just to tell everyone about your story, you were 17 years old when you first joined up with the royal navy as a gunner and your mum hid your birth certificate so you couldn't join , didn't she? well couldn't join, didn't she? well when she learned i joined the navy, she said, you cannot go . navy, she said, you cannot go. >> and my dad said, it'll do him good. good. and so she had the birth certificate, which at the time she must have thought i couldn't get in without it. i anyhow, i did go to the war as it happened. i made my friend after three weeks after we'd gone down to bristol and joined or they took us in the navy and

my mum wouldn't let me have my birth certificate . so away i go. birth certificate. so away i go. and when we land up at the barracks where we had to do our training thing, i don't think they were all that worried about birth certificates. they were more concerned turned in your health and how many bad teeth you had because that was the first thing we did. you had because that was the first thing we did . they give first thing we did. they give you a strip in vet inspection and get dressed and then look in your mouth. so many bad teeth out. they come . and that was my out. they come. and that was my start to the navy. so i didn't have to worry about my birth certificate in the end. >> so john, you were so young when you joined . you were when you joined. you were a gunner in the royal navy . gunner in the royal navy. >> young, 17, was so young . >> young, 17, was so young. >> young, 17, was so young. >> what made you join at that time ? time? >> you were on the way to manhood, weren't you? like we left school at 14 and it three

years into being a man , it's years into being a man, it's different than today . it's 17. different than today. it's 17. you just go into your secondary education and, you know, all that sort of thing. well. i would say work with my father and i was training to be an apprentice bricklayer and the firm we work for was building air raid shelters , camps, all air raid shelters, camps, all that sort of thing . because of that sort of thing. because of the military, we were getting called up at in 1941. this was one and the winter air was one of those severe winters when everything froze up and all the building come to a stop above ground . and in corsham, which is ground. and in corsham, which is a little village further up from where i was brought up , there where i was brought up, there were underground caves left with

where they'd taken the bath and portland stone out of and they were building underground factories for to store ammunition in and all that sort of stuff . of stuff. >> i remember reading about this, john, because you were so surprised having to work underground before, but can i just ask you, you took part in four of the major campaigns dunng four of the major campaigns during the war. yeah. one of them being d—day. yeah what was that like to experience that? i can't imagine being so young as well. well it's only now i'm older. >> i think to myself, i'm glad i did that. but when you're that age and you're on a ship with a load of lads of your own age and better , you know , you're more better, you know, you're more cunous better, you know, you're more curious than afraid and you always wondering what the next landing will bring . it's bound landing will bring. it's bound to be different because all the

all the different landings are different. d—day to me was there. well, i always felt nothing could happen to me , i'll nothing could happen to me, i'll be honest with you, because there were that many ships on there were that many ships on the water. yeah. and when you read books, i take some around about 3000, which sounds ridiculous, but when you see the armada sailing through france and you was looking around , and you was looking around, there were that many ships. it was a job to see any water and you thought, oh, nothing can happen to us. i will admit we were proved wrong to a point because we got there and we i was on sword beach as it happened. and . we went in with happened. and. we went in with the second wave at about 10:30 and we were on the beach all day then waiting. we unload our

cargo and we had to wait till the tide came in and so we were getting shelled and they had bombing now and again and it was i'm not saying it was frightened that because i was on a gun, you see. so i always within the thick of it, so to speak, i was able to take my mind off of what was going on by firing my gun. and while i was firing , it was, and while i was firing, it was, you know, hard to say, but though i'm glad i joined up, though i'm glad ijoined up, i'll be honest with you, i'm proud to have served in the navy and i don't regret one little bit . bit. >> well, you should be incredibly proud of the contribution and everything you did. we're going to be catching

up with you just a little bit later, if that's okay. you're going to the field of remembrance, so remembrance, aren't you? and so we've got we've got to just leave it there for now. but is that okay if we come with you to that? we'll that? is that okay? so we'll bnng that? is that okay? so we'll bring more later because that? is that okay? so we'll bring goingiore later because that? is that okay? so we'll bring going with ater because that? is that okay? so we'll bring going with john)ecause that? is that okay? so we'll bring going with john)eca|jim to we're going with john and jim to the at the field of remembrance at westminster abbey, where john would to pay his respects there. >> that's absolutely fantastic. and lisa, if i can just ask you if john doesn't mind divulging to the nation, how old is he ? to the nation, how old is he? >> oh, do you mind answering this? tom's asked what some people might not want to answer. how old are you? >> 99. >> 99. >> 99, 99, 99. >>— >> 99, 99, 99. >> wow. well, lisa hartle , thank >> wow. well, lisa hartle, thank you so much for bringing us that. and what a vivid, incredible story. we're really, really lucky to be able to hear it first hand. we'll be back with lisa later in the day. and of course , john as well . but of course, john as well. but just to break away from that for a moment , there have been some a moment, there have been some shocking developments in central

london, clashes have broken out between police and groups attempting to reach the cenotaph . a large crowd of people beanng . a large crowd of people bearing saint george's flags was seen walking along the embankment , seen walking along the embankment, shouting england till i die. as they tried to break through, police lines. so this is very interesting. this isn't pro—palestine , an isn't pro—palestine, an protesters being rowdy. this appears to be people brandishing england flags, perhaps thinking that they're doing the right thing, perhaps thinking that they're going to protect the cenotaph, but actually causing trouble themselves . i'm joined trouble themselves. i'm joined in the studio by esther phil and simon danczuk as well . esther, simon danczuk as well. esther, how concerned should we be about people perhaps thinking they're doing the right thing for their country, but actually be disturbing the peace ? disturbing the peace? >> well, i don't know. i haven't seen all the footage there. i don't know what's made them want to on to the cenotaph . and

to march on to the cenotaph. and i you only see i hate that when you only see a little bit of the story and all unfold. now, unfold. but absolutely. now, you could they've been so riled could say they've been so riled up over what's been happening. and why i felt there was and that's why i felt there was very tinderbox sort of very much a tinderbox sort of feeling of today. and that's what we were all concerned about, because so many people were upset what might were so upset what might have happened. protest, were so upset what might have happened. protest , fifth happened. this protest, fifth week consecutive, this palestinian protest, week consecutive, this palestinian protest , this palestinian protest, this pro—palestinian march, and people came out wanting to defend our country so that was always the cause of concern. we'll have to see what's happening, what has triggered this situation . i think that's this situation. i think that's really important to find out . really important to find out. >> no, it does look like there's a police operation there that is making sure that this group doesn't burst its way onto whitehall. it looks like there by the ministry of defence. but the police are there . the police are there. >> i think that looks good. they're numbers , they they're good. the numbers, they were that's what we were quick and that's what we want. response of want. a quick response of forceful force. want. a quick response of forcsimon force. want. a quick response of forcsimon forceyou make of

>> simon what do you make of this latest development? >> i was looking at some this >> i was looking at some of this on before i came on social media before i came into the studio, and the impression that people impression is that some people on right, very right on the far right, very far right of politics have come come down, as you say , to try and protect as you say, to try and protect the cenotaph . but this is the the cenotaph. but this is the whole reason for having whole reason for not having that, not the protest that, for not having the protest , not on this particular day , , not on this particular day, the palestinian protest, , not on this particular day, the palestinian protest , because the palestinian protest, because there will be a small number, as we've seen for the last few weeks, a small number of extremists within the pro—palestinian protest . and now pro—palestinian protest. and now we've got a small group of far right extremists . and i think right extremists. and i think it's almost inevitable , will, it's almost inevitable, will, that there will be clashes at some stage during the day in central london. now, the extent of them will determine whether the chief police commissioner has got it right or called it wrong. it's all to be seen , all wrong. it's all to be seen, all to be seen. >> and i suppose as we were looking at those images as on on hyde park , where the hyde park, where the pro—palestinian protesters are gathering, it doesn't seem like there's a huge number. perhaps

we're going to escape some of the worst fears of what today could have looked like. phil yeah, hopefully. >> i mean, the crowd did look sparse. i guess there's time for people to join . i don't know. people to join. i don't know. they might be somewhere else . they might be somewhere else. but i mean, you don't want but look, i mean, you don't want to see it doesn't matter to see any it doesn't matter who's disorder. the look to see any it doesn't matter who's should disorder. the look to see any it doesn't matter who's should be sorder. the look to see any it doesn't matter who's should be about. the look to see any it doesn't matter who's should be about a'he look to see any it doesn't matter who's should be about a quiet,k today should be about a quiet, sombre reflection about people who sacrifice everything for our freedoms and i don't care whether people are football hoougans whether people are football hooligans or pro—palestinian. you do not want to see any any people trying to break through? >> no, i was going to say i could see that interview of john, 99 years old, on a loop, constantly being played. how stoic he was, how matter of fact he was. i loved the juxtaposition of him. at the age of 17 as a gunner on the navy, there was that youthful naivety about him. and then as an older man there wise who's seen it all, i mean, that is what i think great british people

about. none of this week. wokery none of this protesting and shouting what he did for his country. and he said , i've been country. and he said, i've been there, i've seen it, but i'm proud that i did it. have him on a loop. all day, bring him in the studio. we will certainly be back john because i think i back with john because i think i think that they don't want them like that anymore. >> special, >> it's what's so special, perhaps about the moment in time that in. it won't be that we live in. it won't be forever that we're able to hear stories first hand from people who were there on d—day as john was saying, so many ships that he couldn't see any water. those firsthand stories , we now can't firsthand stories, we now can't have them from the first world war. we can have them from the second world war. but we won't have that forever. >> but they fact of the matter, well, they didn't care about his birth certificate. they just checked . how was his checked his teeth. how was his teeth? have teeth? they probably would have given an iodine tablet or whatever was . it would have whatever it was. it would have given of aspirin. given him a couple of aspirin. i remember seeing what some of the people who went into both the first world war and the second world went off world war got as they went off to war. was little band. it

to war. it was a little band. it was little box, a little to war. it was a little band. it was aid, little box, a little to war. it was a little band. it was aid, aittle box, a little to war. it was a little band. it was aid, a little box, a little to war. it was a little band. it was aid, a little plasticttle band aid, a little plastic thing. my goodness. they're thing. oh, my goodness. they're going and that's going to serious war. and that's what they were given. and my goodness, what a character that john was. i think you're right, though, tom. >> think it is >> i think i think it is sad that not going to hear that we're not going to hear those hand accounts of those first hand accounts of what happened in the world wars . what happened in the world wars. and, you know, just the just the quiet stoicism, the humility , quiet stoicism, the humility, the modesty, i mean, of what i mean, it's unimaginable what we ask people to do. and the fact that he just went there quietly and did what he thought was the right to do and was, you right thing to do and was, you know, what did know, doesn't regret what he did , you know, do we how many john's do we still have in the in the united kingdom ? you know, in the united kingdom? you know, i think, you know, that's what today is all about is remembering people like john. well, phil , remembering people like john. well, phil, you have set me up marvellously for our next segment about remembering things that have gone before. >> so i'm delighted to be joined by jamie lonsdale now. good morning , jamie. good morning to morning, jamie. good morning to you . now just explain a little

you. now just explain a little bit about why you're here. your great uncle is the reason for this . this. >> that's right. so my great uncle was norman somerset. he was 20 years old. he had left school and in the family tradition, joined the grenadiers all my family going way back , all my family going way back, have joined the grenadiers. i broke all the rules and instead joined the royal navy just like john did. >> just like john did. >> just like john did. >> yes . >> yes. >> yes. >> and but norman somerset left school, joined the grenadiers and i was training at war and at warley he became great friends with the prince of wales , who with the prince of wales, who was also going through his training. so prince edward . and training. so prince edward. and on i have letters here from the prince of wales to norman . and

prince of wales to norman. and on october the 4th, 1941, norman gets sent across the channel to epe . and i have all his things epe. and i have all his things in a cab. >> show us any you can show. >> show us any you can show. >> you've got letters with you here. >> yes, i have. i thought. i thought it would be quite interesting for people to actually see these letters . i'm actually see these letters. i'm not going to try reading them out because it's quite writing handwriting . handwriting. >> yes. >> yes. >> so this is effectively letters . this is >> so this is effectively letters. this is a >> so this is effectively letters . this is a letter from letters. this is a letter from the prince of wales to norman. his parents. so what were the sentiments of the letters? well the first letter is the prince of wales writing to norman, saying, can we meet for dinner? i'm so sorry . saying, can we meet for dinner? i'm so sorry. it's from wellington barracks . crossed out wellington barracks. crossed out and instead written in hand, buckingham palace. i'm so sorry

that i couldn't make dinner tonight . tomorrow we have a that i couldn't make dinner tonight. tomorrow we have a long march and then hoping to go for capital swim at the bath club . capital swim at the bath club. and so this was very much part part of training and working very hard. long marches on october the fourth, norman gets sent across to epe . i've got sent across to epe. i've got hands scribbled pencil letters , hands scribbled pencil letters, is home to his mother , dearest is home to his mother, dearest mama and papa. today we saw the enemy for the first time and we chased them down the road . and chased them down the road. and wow. now, i mean, they had no idea what they were for. in >> this is before we got stuck into trench warfare. this is right at the start, right at the very beginning. >> this is the first battle of epe. there were five battles of epe. there were five battles of epe had a million epe and we had a million casualties. oh but this particular one lasted a month and we lost 58,000 men. and so

shocking. and for norman, he was expecting to be home for christmas . christmas. >> yes. >> yes. >> as they all were . they >> as they all were. they thought it would be a skirmish and return unforeseen . and return unforeseen. fortunately, on the 23rd of october, things were not going well for the grenadier guards and norman was tasked with returning to the left wing and he the commander said, leave your rucksack here because you'll be coming back . and i you'll be coming back. and i want you to give a message to the left wing and tell them to withdraw and use the bicycle. there's a bicycle there. cut. fine the bicycle and bring it back. fine the bicycle and bring it back . and it was when norman back. and it was when norman went in search for the bicycle . went in search for the bicycle. he he was . six foot six. and the

he he was. six foot six. and the enemy snipers all ways knew who the officer was because he was invariably over six foot. and unfortunately he got taken out . unfortunately he got taken out. he got shot just above the left eye. but beneath the eyebrow and strangely, i have the bullet . strangely, i have the bullet. oh, wow. >> yeah. how . oh, wow. >> yeah. how. it >> yeah. how. it >> it's a miracle that i have it . and he the blessing is that he was killed instantly . was killed instantly. >> yes. >> yes. >> and i suppose another strange blessing there that he didn't have the four years that ensued of trench foot and ultimate horror seeing the he never saw the scale of what was to come . the scale of what was to come. >> that's right . the scale of what was to come. >> that's right. i'm so glad to have his rucksack for all the contents that was in it. >> what was in the box? >> what was in the box? >> things like tobacco, tin .

>> things like tobacco, tin. >> things like tobacco, tin. >> ah, princess. i think. was she princess alice? um >> you'd know better than me . >> you'd know better than me. >> you'd know better than me. >> gave every serving soldier a tobacco tin of two packets of cigarettes as a christmas present . present. >> and the book i talked about where i saw their medical kit, it really was basic. it was something like , you know, like something like, you know, like a plaster. it was like an aspirin. it was so basic , considering the it was so basic, considering the enormity of what they were going to see. did you have his little medical tin in there? >> not his medical tin. yeah, but but the great thing is i have a lot of his his letters and in particular here, the prince of wales . the moment he prince of wales. the moment he in fact, queen mary was the first to write to norman's parents and said, i've got her letter here saying , dear captain

letter here saying, dear captain somerset , letter here saying, dear captain somerset, and it's dated november the first, 1914. so very shortly after his death . very shortly after his death. >> can you tell us how this relates to a piece of music that you've brought in? >> well , i, i you've brought in? >> well, i, i must say that every year, as a boy, i went to remembrance service with my grandmother and i always notice that she would cry in the service . service. >> and so i started to really feel for her. and in doing so, feeling for norman, who was painted in posthumously in our in our dining room and the last few years , i started to write few years, i started to write songs. few years, i started to write songs . and, and about five years songs. and, and about five years ago and three years ago i, i wrote a song for my great uncle norman called off to war. a year later for it seems to have

become a habit now. remembrance. i wrote a song called white doves of peace, which i recorded with the chelsea pensioners , with the chelsea pensioners, which is which is crying out for more peace in the world. >> now i believe we've got a clip of that song that we can listen to now , the naval hymn listen to now, the naval hymn this year, naval hymn rock this year, the naval hymn rock and as far and full process there were so they go so i tessa jowell surprised to me that hymns of praise from that sea . hymns of praise from that sea. it just lifts the heart, doesn't it ? jamie lonsdale, thank you so it? jamie lonsdale, thank you so much for coming in and sharing your with us. we really your story with us. we really appreciate today on armistice day. >> thank you very much, tom. thank you. now now we must turn to some breaking news in the

last few moments . last few moments. >> the metropolitan police have issued a statement regarding the clashes that we saw earlier on whitehall . well, while the two whitehall. well, while the two minute silence was marked, respect fully and without incident whitehall, respect fully and without incident whitehall , officers incident on whitehall, officers have faced aggression from counter protesters who are in the area in significant numbers. the counter protesters are not one cohesive group . they are one cohesive group. they are different groups moving away from whitehall towards other parts of central london. officers are keeping track of them as they do if their intention is to confront the main protest departing later today from park lane. we will use all the powers and tactics available to to us prevent that from happening. that's the latest statement from the metropolitan police . let's cross metropolitan police. let's cross now to mark white, our home and security editor who is at the start point of the palestinian march. and mark, is it surprising that perhaps the first clashes that we've seen today have been from counter protesters .

protesters. >> not really . protesters. >> not really. i don't think. you know, it's a multi—pronged challenge that the metropolitan police are facing . they've police are facing. they've always said that. and of course, there are elements , but by no there are elements, but by no means all. but there are elements within the counter protests who are also go out potentially to cause trouble as well as the police said, though, this is not one cohesive group. there are lots of different people that are represented from different groups and some are less favourable and friendly towards the police than others . towards the police than others. so what i'm told from the metropolitan police is that although those incidents were a little bit ugly for a while, they were over very quickly indeed. they were over very quickly indeed . and those people have indeed. and those people have dispersed quite a few of them i think, to the pub. but but for the time being, at least that's less of an issue. however if some of those counter—protests do try to make their way up towards this area or even

somewhere where this march is heading down and we'll just show you looking down, we're into the sun a little bit, but hopefully you can see some of those hundreds now in their thousands of protesters who have been crossing over into hyde park. when this route goes down, if those some of those counterprotest goers try to meet up counterprotest goers try to meet up with this march, then obviously the police will intervene to try to stop that. the very last thing that they want to happen is to allow. the two sides effectively to come together, because that will be a real flashpoint. we just want to give you a quick shot over to our right. actually, you can see some of the police motorcycles is assembling there because as they'll be used, i guess , in they'll be used, i guess, in a capacity either to sort of escort the march when it begins or just to zip escort the march when it begins orjust to zip to the escort the march when it begins or just to zip to the locations pretty quickly as well. there are some vans in front of them, but those are just the vans

carrying the visible presence. the officers here that are just looking after the marches in, assemble . and then, of course, assemble. and then, of course, all the way down the route, as i was saying before , tom, we've was saying before, tom, we've got many, many , many hundreds of got many, many, many hundreds of officers in those police vans inside streets , as always in a inside streets, as always in a position to react and respond as they have been doing already. this morning to that little flare up that happened just a short while ago . short while ago. >> well, mark, thank you very much. we'll of course, be back to you throughout the day and see protest develop . see how that protest develop. shapps. now, just very briefly , shapps. now, just very briefly, phil, it seems that that is a growing protest. mark mentioned thousands. it did look a lot bufien >> yeah, i'm sure there will be a big turnout. i mean, i don't i think it's not going to be as big as the organisers originally asked for. i think they start off with a million march 1st goal off with a million march 1st goal. then was half million goal. then it was half a million march. i don't think they're going anywhere close to going to get anywhere close to that. there's going going to get anywhere close to that. big there's going going to get anywhere close to that. big tand�*s going going to get anywhere close to that. big tand they ng going to get anywhere close to

that. big tand they could to be a big crowd and they could cause . cause trouble. >> to you, >> and the final word to you, esther, see the police esther, glad to see the police there stamping their authority on situation , stopping any on the situation, stopping any upheaval , upset on the situation, stopping any upheaval, upset or on the situation, stopping any upheaval , upset or what have upheaval, upset or what have you. >> and i think people wanted to see that from the start. those counter were of counter protesters were sort of there protect there saying we'll protect the cenotaph. police have cenotaph. the police should have made there to made it clear they were there to do that . do that. >> p- p— e good to see that >> well, it's good to see that policing working. that's from policing working. that's it from us and our special remembrance day armistice day program . i day armistice day program. i just want to leave you with some words from rupert brooke in his famous poem, the soldier. if i die, think only this of me , that die, think only this of me, that there is some corner of a foreign field that is forever england, or perhaps i should say thatis england, or perhaps i should say that is forever the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland. that's it from us. coming up next. it's gb news saturday with dawn neesom . saturday with dawn neesom. >> hello there . i'm jonathan >> hello there. i'm jonathan vautrey of your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office today is certainly the better half of the weekend for

many of us. certainly we want to be are sort be getting outside. we are sort of systems the of in between systems at the moment pressure to the moment with low pressure to the east west. so it means east and the west. so it means for relatively for us the winds are relatively light in amongst all of that and there plenty of dry there will be plenty of dry conditions few coastal conditions around a few coastal showers to watch out for north eastern scotland. nice fringe into eastern into parts of north eastern areas as well, but areas of yorkshire as well, but plenty amounts sunshine, plenty of amounts of sunshine, sunshine turning hazy sunshine just turning a bit hazy in southwest wales , in the southwest of wales, southwest england with this wispy cloud pushing its way in. but , crisp, but a fairly fine, crisp, autumnal most of us. autumnal day for most of us. temperatures around 8 to 11 c. as we head into this evening, though , we're going to start to though, we're going to start to see of push its though, we're going to start to see in of push its though, we're going to start to see in the push its though, we're going to start to see in the southwest.ts though, we're going to start to see in the southwest. could way in from the southwest. could be heavy at times will be heavy at times and it will then spread its way into southwest areas of southwest england and areas of southern turning quite southern wales, turning quite windy as well. in amongst all of this , this bring milder this, this will bring in milder air. temperatures just air. so temperatures just holding up a more here. holding up a touch more here. but clear but where we hold onto the clear skies further towards north skies further towards the north and very chilly night to and east, a very chilly night to come. certainly expect some come. can certainly expect some frost sunday frost first thing on sunday morning some for all morning. also, some fog for all parts of the central down morning. also, some fog for all part�*eastern central down morning. also, some fog for all part�*eastern areas|l down morning. also, some fog for all part�*eastern areas of down morning. also, some fog for all part�*eastern areas of england as into eastern areas of england as well. quite slow well. could be quite slow to clear , lasting until middle clear, lasting until the middle

of afternoon . this band clear, lasting until the middle of graduallyn . this band clear, lasting until the middle of gradually pushes band clear, lasting until the middle of gradually pushes its band clear, lasting until the middle of gradually pushes its waynd then gradually pushes its way north, was actually a second band filtering behind band of rain filtering in behind again, some heavy pulses at times windy around coastal times quite windy around coastal areas south and the far areas in the south and the far north as well. temperatures around 7 to 12 c as it remains quite unsettled into monday as well. and sunshine and showers then for the middle part of next week by

by late.

>> hello and welcome to gb news saturday. i'm dawn neesom and for the next three hours i'll be keeping you company on tv, onune keeping you company on tv, online and digital radio. online and on digital radio. i'll bring you up to date on the stories that really matter to you. and up this hour. you. and coming up this hour. obviously today is the 104th anniversary of the armistice that ended fighting with germany in the first world war. we'll be going across the country to see how you've been reflecting on this very special day. but in london, despite pushback from the prime minister, demonstrations will be going aheadin demonstrations will be going ahead in the capital today over the war in gaza. sunak has called the protest disrespectful , but the met chief says it doesn't meet the threshold for it to be banned. we'll be there live all afternoon . and the live all afternoon. and the protest isn't the only thorn in sunak side. suella braverman us has been causing chaos in the cabinet after she ignored downing street's advice and published a very damning article accusing the met of political

bias. the