gb news. >> good evening. welcome to farage. now, clearly, nigel is away tonight . some of you may be away tonight. some of you may be asking at home this question is. who are you.7 >> who are you? >> i'd never heard of you. nobodyin >> i'd never heard of you. nobody in europe had ever heard of you . of you. >> well, thanks, nigel. my name's tom harwood. i'm the deputy political editor at gb news, and the reason i'm sitting in here for nigel tonight. is it his birthday? should we hear from the man himself ? from the man himself? >> i'm so sorry i can't be with you tonight. i'd love to have been on gb news. you know i would, but, hey, you know what?

it's my 60th birthday. the party begins at 7:00. cheers, everybody. thanks for your support. over to tom harwood . support. over to tom harwood. >> well, a very happy birthday to nigel, but we've got a packed show today. and not least , we'll show today. and not least, we'll be talking about a very serious issue in the middle east now involving brits. yes, the air raid from israel that killed three british former service people john chapman, james henderson and james kirby. now, what will the response to this be? big questions to ask of uk government and indeed our arms exports, but also a story from the channel just days after an exclusive about the lack of security around calais, a migrant has been stabbed. we'll speak to our very own mark white about his exclusive report and whether we can really be sure of safety around our borders now. mps have also been calling for a

tax on frequent flyers . they tax on frequent flyers. they want to control demand to reduce the number of people flying. we ask is that the right thing to do for ordinary brits ? all that do for ordinary brits? all that to come. but before a packed show tonight, it's your news with sophia wenzler. >> thanks, tom. good evening. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. a new poll suggests labour could sweep to victory with more than 400 seats at the next election, leaving the tories with just 155. yougov is predicting a landslide for sir keir starmer, with the conservatives projected to win even less seats than a previous poll conducted in january . and poll conducted in january. and another change of leader may be off the cards, with other mps including penny mordaunt, iain duncan smith and jacob rees—mogg all trailing their labour challengers . shadow foreign challengers. shadow foreign secretary david lammy says the

government should suspend arms sales to israel if it's clear that international law has been breached. it's after british aid workers john chapman, james henderson and james kirby were killed when their convoy was hit by an israeli airstrike while they were delivering a vital food aid. they were part of a group of seven aid workers from the world central kitchen organisation . mr lammy says organisation. mr lammy says britain cannot arms to britain cannot supply arms to israel proven to have israel if it's proven to have broken international law . broken international law. >> i have now been calling for 12 days for david cameron to pubush 12 days for david cameron to publish the legal advice, so that we are clear on whether israel has contravened international humanitarian law and therefore arms sales should be suspended . be suspended. >> no 1 in 20 people who try to book gp appointments over the telephone are told to call back another day. that's according to another day. that's according to a major new survey. it found that a third of people in england who have tried to book

an appointment in the last month say they've struggled to speak an appointment in the last month sa' someone struggled to speak an appointment in the last month sa'someone morejled to speak an appointment in the last month sa'someone morejled t1 speak an appointment in the last month sa' someone morejled t1 in eak an appointment in the last month sa'someone morejled t1 in 10( to someone more than 1 in 10 whose were answered were whose calls were answered were told need wait for told they'd need to wait for more than two weeks. and among those eventually get an those who eventually did get an appointment, having appointment, 20% reported having appointment, 20% reported having a . a teacher who a poor experience. a teacher who described girls from western backgrounds as lunatics has been banned from teaching indefinitely , an investigation indefinitely, an investigation found. a ukip khan, who is from birmingham , told students that birmingham, told students that those who support feminism would be replaced by muslims. it's understood he also sent topless pictures of himself to messaging groups that included students. the teaching regulation agency says mr khan engaged in serious misconduct and undermined what were described as fundamental british values , and a religious british values, and a religious charity is warning the scottish government against banning conversion therapy for lgbt people. the christian institute says the proposal is too broad and risks punishing what it calls harmless behaviour. but the scottish government has rejected the claim, saying the proposed law would only apply

when there's a clear intention to suppress someone's sexuality . to suppress someone's sexuality. a survey found that 7% of lgbt people in scotland have been subjected to or offered conversion therapies , and for conversion therapies, and for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now it's back to . tom. it's back to. tom. >> now, should we suspend arms sales to israel? that's a question that has been raised tonight. of course, following the incident that occurred in israel, three brits killed in an aid convoy trying to deliver aid that had just arrived for the gaza strip. now, this aid convoy was , of course, travelling in was, of course, travelling in a corridor that had been predetermined with the israeli authorities. it was meant to be safe. those britons were meant to be safe , and yet they were to be safe, and yet they were struck down by a strike that

israel has admitted was its own . israel has admitted was its own. big questions tonight on what the implications of this are. what should britain's response be, if at all? and i want your views . should we be suspending views. should we be suspending arms exports to israel? that's what the shadow foreign secretary, david lammy , has now secretary, david lammy, has now said that we should do. if this has been found to be a war crime. of course you can tweet farage on gb news. that hashtag remains the same as does the email farage gb news. com let's dive into this story. now i'm joined by boaz bismuth, a member of parliament in the israeli knesset, their parliament and former israeli ambassador to the west african arab country of mauritania. boaz, thank you so much for joining mauritania. boaz, thank you so much forjoining us. this evening, i think the first question that would be on everyone's lips is, how on earth could this happen? this was meant to be a safe route. israel is meant to be one of the most

technologically advanced countries in the in the world. how did you get it so wrong? first of all, thank you for inviting me. >> you will allow me, first of all, condolences to the families. and i think of the families, i think of their grief. and of course, i share their grief with them. mistakes. mistakes are done in wars. and you know, it better than me. everybody mean, everybody knows it. i mean, unfortunately, every country, every war knows every nation who's at war knows that mistakes. that you've got mistakes. unfortunately, this unfortunately, also in this war, we many casualties. many we have many casualties. many soldiers died from soldiers have died who died from friendly fire, meaning from our own happens . you know, it's own army happens. you know, it's a tough it's a tough place. gaza. and you're fighting against terrorists and you're fighting and you've got, of course, civilians over there, and care not to and you have to take care not to touch, to not hit them, touch, not to not to hit them, of and you've got the of course. and you've got the tunnels there. a very tunnels over there. it's a very complicated this gaza complicated platform. this gaza strip being held between strip war is being held between israel terrorist entity. israel and the terrorist entity. so you have to understand, humanitarians there , and humanitarians are there, and it's for humanitarians it's important for humanitarians to there. and israel, of to be there. and the israel, of course, said from day one course, has said from day one allowed to go allowed humanitarian to go

inside than 17,000 trucks inside more than 17,000 trucks went and unfortunately, went inside. and unfortunately, in a war, mistakes also are in such a war, mistakes also are being and i can tell you being made. and i can tell you one thing israel is going to investigate very, very investigate in a very, very large order to large scale in order to understand what happened. understand what has happened. and , i said before and and again, as i said before and i say it again, we share our grief with the families. it was a mistake and we're very, very sorry it. sorry about it. >> but as i think a lot of people in the united kingdom are instinctively friends of israel, they think of israel as an ally, as a as a friend in this world, particularly in the fight against terrorism, a fight that our two countries share, but particularly when it's a friend that might have done something wrong. it's up to friends to have those frank conversations. i think we'd be doing the same if brits were killed in an american strike anywhere in the world, we will be doing the same. of course, with this and the question is, how earth the question is, how on earth could this be such a terrible mistake, given this wasn't one explosion in one car in one go, these were three explosions. one

car blown up . some people car blown up. some people escaped, ran to a second car. according to some reports . then according to some reports. then that exploded, and then a third. three separate strikes, all on cars that were branded as part of the world centre kitchen. this an organisation that has helped israelis in the aftermath of those terrible october attacks. one of the good guys in this fight , we never said the opposite. >> i don't say the opposite. on the contrary, i said apologise. i said that we're going to investigate in a very large scale in order to understand what has happened over there . as what has happened over there. as i said, also mistakes in wars. i mean, are being done, i told you, i mean, do you really think that the israelis want to kill israelis? of course not. let me remind you a very, very sad episode this war. three of episode in this war. three of our hostages unfortunately died. and i mean, did and we said it. i mean, we did not try it. it was not try to hide it. it was dunng not try to hide it. it was during war. we came to in during the war. we came to in tell the families it was our mistake. tough mistake. it's a very, very tough war. course, there's no war. of course, there's no excuses.i war. of course, there's no excuses. i it shouldn't

excuses. i mean, it shouldn't happen. not come to tell happen. i will not come to tell you that. i mean, these things happen and therefore we go on. you that. i mean, these things hap this and therefore we go on. you that. i mean, these things hap this isd therefore we go on. you that. i mean, these things hap this is something we go on. you that. i mean, these things hap this is something that|o on. no, this is something that should not happen. happened. should not happen. it happened. and going to investigate and we're going to investigate in happen in order to not make it happen again. humanitarian is again. humanitarian aid is important. to take care important. we are to take care and make sure that not only and to make sure that not only humanitarian aid, also civilians. we're civilians. i mean, we're targeting terrorists. we're not targeting terrorists. we're not targeting we're not targeting civilians. we're not targeting humanitarian aid. we're not targeting anyone who is the war is not involved in the war by itself. but let me tell you itself. but but let me tell you one thing. at the beginning of your heard you your program, i heard you mentioning, of course, about those want to punish israel those who want to punish israel if not to sell us arms if you want not to sell us arms because of this, what has because of this, of what has happened, remind you happened, let me remind you again, mistake. you again, this was a mistake. you said yourself in a very said it yourself in a very honest a very fair way, but honest and a very fair way, but not sell arms to israel is to not to sell arms to israel is to take sides in this war. now you have one thing. have to understand one thing. this between state, a this is all between a state, a friendly state, state and friendly state, israel state and a terrorist group. now, would you even think of taking sides if al—qaeda against if there is al—qaeda against america al—qaeda against america or al—qaeda against australia, or boko haram against, know that against, i don't know what that choose country that choose an african country that you isis? of course not. you want or isis? of course not. this war is a country, by this war is by a country, by a country where you've got the

rule law. a country that has rule of law. a country that has seven of was savagely seven of october was savagely attacked. as you attacked. i mean, like as if you would the episode of the would go to the episode of the attila the arno barbarians or vandals. and by way, what vandals. and by the way, what are right now? we're are we doing right now? we're making for our making a war also for our friends the west. also for friends in the west. also for the ghazzawi people away the ghazzawi people taking away a entity and a terrorist entity and especially bringing back our hostages them young girls hostages among them young girls and a baby. one year and of course, a baby. one year old. and people, i mean, have lost it or forgot it. and i don't feel a lot of compassion from the world. and again, we are we are short on time. october 7th for october is actuality. it's not history . actuality. it's not history. it's happening now. >> i want i want a quick word from you. if you have a personal message for the shadow foreign secretary, david lammy, the man likely to be the next foreign secretary of the united kingdom, he said tonight that his government would suspend arms sales to israel if this is found to be a war crime. what do you say to david lammy ? say to david lammy? >> i would tell him just something very, very simple. i

would expect any person, whether you're you've got responsibility or any, any citizen of the world right now of the free world, if you have to choose between a country that was attacked and have hostages in gaza, including young girls, young women and a baby one year old and the terrorist group like hamas, who doesn't hesitate to kill his own people. i mean, choose which side are you on? that's it. i would ask him a question. which side, sir, are you on? which side, sir, are you on? which side are you on? >> profound words indeed. well, boaz bismuth really appreciate your thank you for coming your time. thank you for coming on putting your case, on and putting across your case, israeli mp and of course, by the way, by the way, when i saw you, i didn't ask you the question. >> who are you? i know you are. >> who are you? i know you are. >> oh, thank you very much. thank you. i really appreciate your now, let's get more your time, now, let's get more on the details of this. it's very easy for david lammy to say, well, potentially, let's let's stop arms sales to israel. but what would that actually mean? what would that mean for the british economy? what would

that mean for the arms industry? and could it be practically done in any short order? well, i'm delighted to be joined now by martin drew, the founder of the british export control and former special adviser to the parliamentary committee on export controls. really appreciate your time this evening. just just very simply , evening. just just very simply, what sort of arms do we export to israel as things stand? >> good evening. tom, having looked at the statistics that's available to us, and there isn't available to us, and there isn't a great deal, clearly, because it's confidential information held by the british government not a great deal is the answer. i think looking at the last two years, about £20 million worth of exports of military equipment, and i think it's useful to refer to it as that arms is often an emotive phrase. guns and bombs. effectively. but the whole military equipment range from , land rovers, night range from, land rovers, night vision equipment, bomb disposal, etc. obviously, including the, the guns and bombs that were associates with more hollywood

movies, so i think probably we import, more goods from israel of the military variety than we probably export , mostly it's probably export, mostly it's components of high value military equipment, radars, aircraft, helicopters , etc. aircraft, helicopters, etc. >> that's a really, really interesting point , because of interesting point, because of course, trade works both ways. and is it your expert opinion that if, if the united kingdom were to ban exports, arms exports , whatever that means, exports, whatever that means, military exports, whether that would include , jaguar land would include, jaguar land rovers and kevlar vests and whatever else and defensive material as well, whatever else and defensive material as well , whether or not material as well, whether or not that's what david lammy is considering, i suppose you and i can't ascertain at this point. but do you think that would mean there would be retaliatory action that would affect the exports to us? >> i think clearly, obviously there'll be some form of retaliation. any state has its own export control system and yes, david lammy were the

foreign secretary technically , foreign secretary technically, the control is under the secretary of state for the department of business and trade that holds the pen for this matter. but the foreign office have a significant input into whether licences to export military goods are permitted. i think primarily it's a case of the uk as a reliable supplier. if i can use some form of, honda civic, for example , when you buy civic, for example, when you buy a honda civic, you expect honda to supply the parts to you. if halfway down the line, they decide not to supply parts to you, then people are going to stop buying honda's. honda's materials . and the same with the materials. and the same with the uk. we've sold them high uk. if we've sold them high value like systems value items like radar systems and night vision equipment, etc. and night vision equipment, etc. and halfway through that supply, halfway through that contract , halfway through that contract, we then pull the plug on them. and clearly we're not a country that people are going to come to purchase defence equipment in future. and as we know, the acquisition know that is such an important issue that you raise there, martin, because reliability really does matter.

>> dependability really does matter. and i suppose is the question that will be raised of all of the mps, because it's not just david lammy and the labour party suggesting that arms exports could now be suspended. the leader of the liberal democrats said much the same thing earlier today. if that really does mean suspending contracts, mid—contract that could have much wider economic implications for this country , implications for this country, that could cost jobs, that could cost a lot more revenue than just the revenue that we get from arms sales. >> very much so. we certainly see the defence sector that if suppuer see the defence sector that if supplier in the uk won't supply you with whatever the item is, armoured land rovers, for example, that people will go elsewhere and once they've gone elsewhere, like any product, they won't back to you . and they won't come back to you. and many companies have been facing significant financial ruin by the fact that contracts have gone to other countries who facilitated the shipment, with a great deal more ease than we

have in the uk. israeli export licenses have already been under significant, scrutiny by the foreign office for many years, so , again, it's a case of if so, again, it's a case of if this foreign office wants to stop exports, it can stop them immediately. each export is carried out, licenses carried out on an individual basis. carried out, licenses carried out on an individual basis . but out on an individual basis. but again, we have to appreciate that if we've bought israeli drones , for example, the parts drones, for example, the parts we need for the british army to operate those drones will cease that afternoon. we can't that afternoon. and we can't simply go and get them from elsewhere. similarly, suppliers will then know if you buy from the uk, if you buy a high value item, we can't guarantee, depending on the government, if you'll get the spare parts for that. again, back to your honda civic, knows if the british civic, who knows if the british will decide one afternoon they're going let you have they're going to let you have they're going to let you have the parts. one afternoon the spare parts. one afternoon the spare parts. one afternoon the next government in and the next government is in and you get the spare parts you won't get the spare parts you've got pile of very you've got a huge pile of very expensive rusting metal. >> it's a very profound >> no, it's a very profound warning, actually. much warning, actually. how much could this degrade our own armed

forces we break down these forces if we break down these relationships? it's not just about the exports. it's about the imports. it's about the equipment our own armed equipment that our own armed forces use as well, we're a country that doesn't make that much anymore. yes, we have , car much anymore. yes, we have, car factories. that's a specialism. but also the defence industry perhaps, is a specialism of british manufacturing, of british manufacturing, of british exports. just how important is it to the uk economy ? economy? >> it's one of those industries that's often not seen. and i think we associate with the arms industry perhaps again , the guns industry perhaps again, the guns and bombs, the crates of kalashnikovs that you see in hollywood movies. but what we specialise in the uk is very high value, very, expensive equipment . high value, very, expensive equipment. the gucci end of the defence sector for like the electronics , the aircraft parts, electronics, the aircraft parts, the radar parts which themselves aren't necessarily kinetic but bringing vast amounts of money to the uk exchequer in relation to the uk exchequer in relation to in sales. once that's gone,

once somebody's gone to another suppuen once somebody's gone to another supplier, they're not going to come back. similarly with human nature, if you've if your neighbour has bought something from france or something from america and you start looking at that , you'll america and you start looking at that, you'll buy from them if they're more reliable. the effects on companies or one export licence is going through and a reputation going through can shut a company with with engineering excellence that goes back decades. unfortunately, these are not decisions to be made lightly and effectively have decades of repercussions if they made incorrectly. >> it's a profound issue. martin, you've explained it absolutely excellently. i think everyone can really understand what has gone on there. of course, you're a former special adviser to that parliamentary export committee. export control committee. really, stuff really, really important stuff for the uk and the wider economy as well. the question must be asked, i suppose, if you forego all the tax revenue from those arms exports, how do you make that up? are you going to raise taxes or are you going to cut pubuc taxes or are you going to cut public services ? that's suppose public services? that's suppose a question for those politicians

saying we should cease saying that we should cease these arms exports really, really important questions there. now stay with us here on farage because up next we've got an exclusive report from the channel an exclusive report from the channel, our very own home and security editor, mark white, will be here to tell us precisely what's going on. it's a dangerous and ever more dangerous security situation

it's -- it's 7:23. -_ it's 7:23. i'm lam it's 7:23. i'm not nigel farage. i'm sitting in for nigel on his 60th birthday. very happy birthday , nigel. my name is tom birthday, nigel. my name is tom harwood and this is gb news now, we've been asking the question tonight. should we suspend arms sales to israel? we had a very interesting interview just before the break that tried to

get to the bottom of what that exactly means. it's a bit more complicated than some politicians like to make out, but daryl has written in to say the death of british aid workers was a terrible accident . but was a terrible accident. but israel is facing an impossible situation from those who want israel's destruction. destruction and i think that is a fair point to make . a fair a fair point to make. a fair point to raise. israel is a country that is operating in incredibly difficult circumstances , not just with circumstances, not just with terrorists in gaza. that hide amongst civilians, but also with hostile states that border all sides of that country. henry says. no, we need to give them more to end this war that hamas started . and of course, israel started. and of course, israel has always said that if the threat from israel is eradicated and the hostages are released, this war will come to an end. but they want to degrade that hamas capability, live has

written in to say that actually we should suspend arms sales to israel. live says, yes, we should suspend arms sales, but only if we suspend or stop altogether sales to everywhere. now that would be quite the hit to british manufacturing and the wider economy. i'm not sure there'd be any politician brave enough to say that, even though that perhaps, suspending sales to israel would have that knock on effect as we were discussing. but johnny says there is no way israel deliberately hit the aid vehicle . it's war, one that vehicle. it's war, one that hamas started and accidents happen. so it seems, on balance, you at home think that we shouldn't suspend our arms sales no matter what? david lammy has had to say this evening, but we're going to turn to a security issue closer to home now, because a migrant has been stabbed in the camp at calais. this, jungle, as it's sometimes known , of people waiting to known, of people waiting to cross across to the united

kingdom trying to get on boats. well, our very own homeland security editor, mark white, has , had an exclusive report in the last few days saying that the security situation there was getting worse , to some extent, getting worse, to some extent, foreboding , getting worse, to some extent, foreboding, warning of this situation . mark, did you see situation. mark, did you see this coming ? this coming? >> well, certainly. we've been told by security sources that the situation in northern france is getting increasingly violent , is getting increasingly violent, both migrant and migrant violence and violence from migrants aimed at the french authorities. because they don't like the french intervening, trying to puncture their dinghies and stopping these boats from launching in the first place. now the latest incident happened at an area, called loon—plage. which is an area of woodland and an

abandoned rail tracks on the outskirts of dunkirk. it can house this makeshift camp more than a thousand people, but it's sporadically raided by the french authorities at the moment . without a period where there's probably a couple of hundred migrants there or so. but emergency services were called to reports of a migrant having been stabbed on the outside of this camp at loon—plage. when they got there , they found a man they got there, they found a man in his 30s with multiple stab wounds to his chest, in his 30s with multiple stab wounds to his chest , french fire wounds to his chest, french fire bngade wounds to his chest, french fire brigade paramedics, tried to work on this man to save his life for around about an hour, but were unable to save his life. he died at the scene. the french police have had no cooperation at all from other migrants. no one has come forward, to give them any information. and as yet, no suspects are in custody. but of course, they suspect that this person died at the hands of another migrant. and it follows,

as i say, growing levels of violence just a fortnight ago, you may remember a boat that crossed the english channel arriving in dover harbour with a migrant on board who had been stabbed. we got exclusive footage of the time of emergency services who were at dover harbour awaiting the arrival of that small boat. now, this migrant , it that small boat. now, this migrant, it turns out, had been stabbed by a criminal people smuggler on a beach near calais because he was attempting to get onto a small boat without paying. and this is an increasing phenomenon, especially among african migrants who don't have the to money pay the people smugglers. instead, they try to rush the boats on the beach as they're launching and try to just push their way on board. when they come up against the people smugglers, that often ends smugglers, then that often ends very violently . and then again, very violently. and then again, just recently, another incident very worrying, in berlin, further down the coast , where

further down the coast, where some 350 migrants were attempting to launch four small boats, the french police tried to intervene in, they got pelted with sticks and stones. other missiles, the migrants even poured petrol on the beach , to poured petrol on the beach, to try to set that alight, to keep the french police away from puncturing those boats. and a number of french officers were injured in this. so increasing levels of violence, a sign of the desperation, but a sign to i think, tom, of just how lucrative this trade is, how valuable it is to the criminal gangs, and they will fight for their turf, and they will fight against those who try to get on board these boats and get a free ride to the uk. >> mark, just an extraordinary story set of stories there really, time and time again , really, time and time again, seeing increased violence, increased insecurity there. and it only beggars the question why on earth have we not yet got a grip on those people coming

across, given the state of violence now on those boats and on the shores as well, mark white, gb news home and security edhon white, gb news home and security editor. really thank you for your time there, really, really worrying situation. of course, if have views farage at if you have views farage at gbnews.com but we're going to be moving on to another story after the break, a free speech row that has erupted in the wake of the scottish new law . this law the scottish new law. this law passed that pervades every part of our lives, not just online, not just with strangers, but it comes into our very homes. for anyone living in scotland. but there's a question, too, for rishi sunak and his conservative government. are there laws on the uk statute book that could be comparable? we'll get to that question after this

it's -- it's 733, and you're watching farage with me. tom harwood now a role that has been rumbling on through this week is, of course, the new hate crime law in scotland. a law that's policing speech and many conservative politicians in the united kingdom , not least the prime kingdom, not least the prime minister, have had a lot to say about it. indeed, rishi sunak, speaking yesterday , said that we speaking yesterday, said that we believe in free speech. conservatives will always protect it. that was rishi sunak jumping to the defence of jk rowling , with her potential rowling, with her potential legal trouble over that new law. but it got me thinking have the conservatives always protected free speech because it's not just the new scottish hate crime law that has restricted the ability to say outrageous or

even offensive things, no , there even offensive things, no, there was a law that was passed in 2003 by tony blair under the community relations act that has forbidden what's called grossly offensive communication. the . offensive communication. the. conservative of course, have not repealed this law and what has that led to? well, it's led to one man in scotland before the new hate crime legislation. but under this 2003 legislation covering the whole uk , under covering the whole uk, under that legislation, one man has been arrested for off colour jokes about captain tom moore that was reported only a couple of years ago. very, very disrespectful and distasteful words, but arrested for words nonetheless. another man was arrested after for filming his p”9 arrested after for filming his pug dog arrested after for filming his pug dog performing nazi salutes , pug dog performing nazi salutes,

some might say an incredibly distasteful , joke. indeed distasteful, joke. indeed disrespectful words that were used during that as well. but that got a call from the police and a further man who a very disrespectful episode this he received a suspended jail sentence for an offensive video of a model of grenfell tower . it of a model of grenfell tower. it was a model that was a video that was sent around on whatsapp. now we can all say that joking about grenfell tower would be an awful, disrespectful, frankly inhuman thing to do. but should it be illegal? indeed, should the concept of free speech not apply here and has rishi sunak been a touch hypocritical when he says that conservatives will always protect free speech? let's get more on this now with doctor benjamin jones, the director of case operations at the free

speech union, benjamin, thank you for joining speech union, benjamin, thank you forjoining us. i want to dig in to this issue here because people often say that we have free speech in the united kingdom, but in certain cases, it seems like we don't . it seems like we don't. >> i think we have free speech in the united kingdom , if you're in the united kingdom, if you're retired and or independently wealthy and you don't have to rely on the good wishes of your employer to keep your job, you don't. you're not bound by upholding a statement of values as part of your contract, in terms of the legislation, i think i'd give four examples that england or to the that apply in england or to the entire kingdom, there's entire united kingdom, there's the act, which the public order act, which forbids stirring up hatred, on the grounds of race or religious belief , that language of belief, that language of stirring up hatred is also used. of course, now in the scottish hate crime act. i'd also point, as you have, to the communications act, which makes it an offence to cause anxiety needlessly to another, the malicious communications act. also, more recently the also, and more recently the online , which is online safety act, which is going to place the internet, in

the hands of ofcom, who will be charged with regulating it. and i think i don't need to big fans of ofcom here. yeah, i don't need to spell out for you or for your viewers what a disaster we think to be the think that's going to be at the free speech union, so on the plus i would say that we plus side, i would say that we do have the higher education freedom speech so that freedom of speech act. so that is credit of the is in the credit of the conservative government for doing that. that will protect students and academics and visiting speakers at universities. something universities. that's something that speech union that the free speech union campaigned many years. so campaigned for many years. so we're delighted with that, but you're is not you're right, the picture is not a one, so i'm, i'm asking a rosy one, so i'm, i'm asking really, why then are so many commentators and public figures and elected politicians saying, isn't this awful? in scotland, we'd never do a sort of an act of parliament, like like like the scottish parliament has just passed that came into effect at the start of this week . it seems the start of this week. it seems that politicians have passed similar bills in england, and perhaps most perniciously might pass more such bills yet. >> well, i agree with every word

of that, but i would say that the scottish hate crime act is particularly egregious. i mean, in the last six hours alone, it's gone from being an abject disaster to an utter farce and a sinister farce at that. it has this offence of stirring up hatred that's on various grounds. curiously, not on the grounds. curiously, not on the grounds of biological sex, but on the grounds of age or transgender identity. and it has a much lower threshold for prosecution than the equivalent uk legislation does. so it includes, for instance, threatening, abusive or insulting speech . now that insulting speech. now that i submit to you, is going to include a lot of people who have expressed views that are the majority view across the uk, certainly the majority view in scotland well, about the scotland as well, about the debate protecting women's debate about protecting women's spaces rights and so spaces and trans rights and so on, i think also i'd point to the removal of the dwelling defence. now, that means that things say in your own home things you say in your own home are not going to be protected. so if you call member of your so if you call a member of your own family, let's say your husband father, a grumpy husband or your father, a grumpy old that can an offence

old git, that can be an offence under act , a old git, that can be an offence under act, a hate crime on under this act, a hate crime on the basis of age . so it's a the basis of age. so it's a completely farcical piece of legislation. everyone warned the scottish government it was going to be a complete disaster , but to be a complete disaster, but this afternoon it really has got even worse than its worst critics would have thought, because we have the bizarre position now where non—crime hate incidents are not being recorded against the first minister, who has become the most complained about person under his own legislation for a pretty notorious speech he gave 3 or 4 years ago. so a non—crime hate incident is not being recorded against him, but one is recorded against him, but one is recorded still against the scottish conservative msp murdo fraser, for his views about about the trans debate and for his view that saying you could change your gender identity was was a nonsense as saying that you could identify as a cat. >> i spoke to murdo fraser actually a bit earlier today, and he was making clear that his view was criticising scottish government policy . he's view was criticising scottish government policy. he's an

opposition politician in the scottish parliament and, and under this new law that the scottish government has passed, they've criminalised in effect or perhaps made a non—crime hate incident , whatever on earth that incident, whatever on earth that means out of what they're a political opponents are saying that it's a really dark path to tread . tread. >> correct. i mean, this law would have been bad enough if it had been applied even handedly, but we are now in the position where if you are a government minister in scotland, you will not have an on crime hate incident recorded against you. if a politically if you are a politically inconvenient target, a target who's not going to be to who's not going to be easy to bully, such jk rowling, bully, such as jk rowling, you will non—crime hate will not have a non—crime hate incident you. incident recorded against you. she's incredibly courageous she's been incredibly courageous and outspoken opposing this. and outspoken in opposing this. this . but what about this act. but what about ordinary the public? ordinary members of the public? what politicians like what about politicians like murdo fraser, take murdo fraser, who take a different view to government ministers ? what about people who ministers? what about people who have withdrawn have job offers withdrawn because have a non—crime because they have a non—crime hate incident recorded against them, by way, they

them, which, by the way, they might out about by might only find out about by accident ? accident? >> no, it's a really, really concerning situation. and just finally , you mentioned the finally, you mentioned the situation of someone arguing , situation of someone arguing, perhaps with their spouse in their home and someone taking offence at that. but it's worse than that, isn't it? even if both parties to that discussion didn't think that something hateful went on, if a third party to that conversation , if party to that conversation, if someone not involved in that conversation overheard it and thought it was hateful, that can still be reported. >> yes, that's correct. and the scottish police have vowed to investigate every single complaint . and as you'll know, complaint. and as you'll know, they've had nearly 4000 complaints in the first 24 hours alone. god only knows what that figure will be now, and good luck to people who have had their house burgled or who've been attacked . i think 24 people been attacked. i think 24 people on average can expect to be the victims of burglary in scotland on any given day. good luck to those people trying get the those people trying to get the police attend to that and to police to attend to that and to get burglar prosecuted

get the burglar prosecuted and well, an well, benjamin, it's an absolutely state of absolutely shocking state of affairs, not least north of the border . border. >> i am absolutely flabbergasted that this became an act of parliament of the scottish parliament. and with such little opposition as well. perhaps that's the most pernicious thing. but really appreciate your time and your expertise on this matter . really, really this matter. really, really interesting stuff there, we interesting stuff there, now we have a little time for something that nigel likes to call. have a little time for something that nigel likes to call . what, that nigel likes to call. what, the farage. and this is a smaller story that i think deserves, a little bit of prominence, perhaps because the deputy leader of the labour party, has , has been having this party, has, has been having this story sort of rumble along for a long time. what am i talking about? of course. angela rayner's selling, one of her houses. it happened to be a former council house. she bought it, of course, under that, right. that we all gained under margaret thatcher, good for her, but it seems that there are

questions of whether or not tax was paid on this, or should tax have been paid on this? no tax was paid, although there are some experts who say that there should have been there should have been capital gains tax paid on this property. now the police say that they're reassessing whether or not they should investigate this. but the news today is that neighbours of angela rayner are people that have been bringing this up. people that live to next that house that was sold originally. well they say now they've not been contacted by the police. so what is it? is the police reassessing this situation or have they just said that they are and actually they're not doing that at all. sometimes it seems as though opposition politicians can get away with things that government ministers really do not. of course, we must say that angela rayner is confident. she says she's done

nothing wrong. but the police say at the very least they're reassessing this. what a curious state of affairs . perhaps it state of affairs. perhaps it will become, less opaque as time goes on. now, next in the programme, we're going to be talking about an extraordinary call from members of parliament. yes, some mps are for yes, some mps are calling for a tax on people who fly multiple journeys in a year. a frequent flyer levy . they want to fix the flyer levy. they want to fix the environment. well is this particularly fair and who could afford it that .

next? it's coming up to 10 to 8. and now , here's a story that will now, here's a story that will have some people, fuming ing, for want of a better word. that

was a poorjoke about aeroplane fumes, but, why am i talking about this nonsense? well, there have been a number of mps who have been a number of mps who have suggested bringing forward what's known as the jet zero strategy, and they want to, introduce new measures, new taxes, new laws to stop people flying quite so much . but, flying quite so much. but, should we listen? well, i'm delighted to say that. joining me in the studio is alethea warrington, the senior campaigner at the climate charity possible, alethea, thank you for joining charity possible, alethea, thank you forjoining us, what is it you for joining us, what is it exactly that these mps are saying? >> so really, the committee of mps in parliament are calling for the government strategy on aviation to start reflecting reality. we're in the middle of a climate crisis and all sectors need to do their bit. and there is just no way to fly a plane without burning huge amounts of fossil fuels and producing huge amounts of emissions. fossil fuels and producing huge amounts of emissions . all the amounts of emissions. all the potential solutions to allow low

carbon flight are a long way away. they're very undeveloped or they're very, very speculative. and this is why the mps are calling on the government to planning government to start planning seriously aviation seriously for an aviation strategy has to include strategy that has to include demand management. >> demand management is a >> now, demand management is a bit of a fancy phrase. what that means is stop people flying so much . much. >> it means stopping the most frequent flyers from flying so much and you know you're talking about people fuming. well, actually, flyer about people fuming. well, actu.isy, flyer about people fuming. well, actu.is a flyer about people fuming. well, actu.is a very flyer about people fuming. well, actu.is a very popularflyer about people fuming. well, actu.is a very popular solution levy is a very popular solution because leave most because it would leave most people it would just people unaffected. it would just target small group of people target the small group of people who take most of the flights. >> what a frequent flyer? how >> what is a frequent flyer? how many flights do i have to take to become a frequent flyer? >> just 15% of people take >> so just 15% of people take 70% of all the flights, and if you fly three or more times each yean you fly three or more times each year, that puts you in that 15. and these are the group of people who need to cut back on their flights. >> so just three flights and i'm a i've got a frequent flyer if i've got a friend do in prague and friend stag do in prague and i get a £20 flight out there on ryanair, and then i go on my

annual family holiday, just one more flight and you want to tax me. >> so somebody who was taking three foreign holidays, a year actually is highly likely to be in the wealthier segments in one of the wealthier segments of the population. anyway. these are high carbon, are people with high carbon, life which are life style choices, which are actually of the actually not reflective of the population general, because population in general, because most fly once a year or most people fly once a year or even less that. so yeah, even less than that. so yeah, actually, those are the people, those flyers who have those frequent flyers who have to cutting well, to start cutting back. well, hold that thought. >> going come back to >> we're going to come back to you. take those to you. let's take those facts to tim jeanes, former managing tim jeanes, the former managing director monarch airlines, director of monarch airlines, who also previously chair who was also previously chair of cornwall airport. thank you so much for joining cornwall airport. thank you so much forjoining me this evening much for joining me this evening , frankly, do you recognise that conversation that we have been having that a small number of people? well, 15% of people are doing a profound amount of damage, apparently, to the environment. >> well, the thing is, we've managed to democratise air travel in the last couple of decades. so we're all able to

fly, we can all afford to fly. and we have many , many different and we have many, many different reasons for flying from holidays to business travel, but to visiting friends and relatives, going to family occasions, family flying is something that everybody can afford and they are, by and large, paying their taxes . air passenger duty in the taxes. air passenger duty in the uk is amongst the highest in the world. so take for example, somebody going on holiday to florida with their family. they'll be paying over £300 in air passenger duty , and air air passenger duty, and air passengers contribute over £3 billion a year to the exchequer because of the air passenger duty. they pay so to say that air travellers are not doing their bit. and the more they fly, the more they pay, i think is a bit disingenuous. >> well, you're saying you're saying that actually people who

take three flights a year might not be in the top income brackets. this is actually people on very modest salaries, often who are taking three flights a year , a very, very flights a year, a very, very modest salaries. >> people who are , i know of >> people who are, i know of care workers who are travelling to and from assignments in europe or are taking vastly more than three flights a year, so students who are studying, from overseas universities are also flying in many cases to, to the uk and from the uk. flying in many cases to, to the uk and from the uk . and it's uk and from the uk. and it's those kind of people we hit. it's those people who can afford to fly business class who can afford to, fly on the if you like, the high legacy, high cost legacy carriers they're already paying legacy carriers they're already paying and they probably could afford to pay more. >> but what we're looking at here is a really interesting point, and one that we're going to pass back to alicia . frankly,

to pass back to alicia. frankly, the rich could pay all of these taxes that you're proposing . taxes that you're proposing. it's people like care workers and students and people on modest incomes who'll be whacked by your taxes. >> that's actually not the case, because the frequent flyer levy is designed to avoid target ing people lower incomes who fly people on lower incomes who fly occasionally. it's designed to target the wealthier people in society fly most often. and society who fly most often. and it's absolutely the case that we need other, other policies as well. need or well. we certainly need a tax or ideally a ban on private jets. and we also need a ban on airport expansion because it is really irresponsible for so many of the airports across the uk to be trying to expand in the middle of a climate crisis. do you recognise the you not recognise that the united done more united kingdom has done more than country to cut its than any g20 country to cut its carbon emissions since 1990, that we've some of the that we've got some of the highest on our carbon, on highest taxes on our carbon, on our flights of anywhere the our flights of anywhere in the world. that's not true. world. that's actually not true. aviation very undertaxed. the aviation is very undertaxed. the entire industry does aviation is very undertaxed. the entipay industry does aviation is very undertaxed. the entipay a industry does aviation is very undertaxed. the entipay a singleidustry does aviation is very undertaxed. the entipay a single penny does aviation is very undertaxed. the entipay a single penny of es aviation is very undertaxed. the entipay a single penny of fuel not pay a single penny of fuel tax the kerosene air tax on all the kerosene air passenger duty is quite high comparatively, not compared to the emissions that produces

the emissions that it produces compared to any other country in the world. it is ridiculous that a billionaire on a private jet doesn't pay any fuel tax and have run of time. have run out of time. >> really appreciate your >> aletha really appreciate your time. rees—mogg is up time. jacob rees—mogg is up next. but that's from on next. but that's it from me on farage. you for your company. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of whether on gb news. >> hello again. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. well there will be some further heavy rain first thing across southern areas, but in general thursday offers some much drier weather compared to the wet weather compared to the wet weather we've seen recently. northeastern areas have suffered the most with the rain throughout today. that rain will clear away through tonight, but the next batch arrives into the southwest. two bursts southwest. we'll see two bursts of rain. this one will turn heavy at first in the southwest, but it pushes into parts of but as it pushes into parts of northern it will turn northern england, it will turn a little dry. most areas little bit dry. but most areas will see some heavy outbreaks of rain through the night further north and though, it

north and west, though, it should dry and we could see should stay dry and we could see a touch of frost by tomorrow morning. but it's in the southwest morning southwest tomorrow morning where the will and the heaviest rain will be, and that push into parts of that will push into parts of wales, midlands, into the wales, the midlands, into the southeast. rush southeast. throughout the rush houn southeast. throughout the rush hour. so if you are moving about on thursday morning, expect some tncky on thursday morning, expect some trickythat does the once that does clear out the way, we'll see a mix of sunshine and showers for areas of and showers for many areas of england wales , there will be england and wales, there will be some decent spells in some decent sunny spells in between. feel fairly between. we'll feel fairly pleasant sunshine , but pleasant in that sunshine, but further it's going to further north it's going to considerably than considerably drier day than it has see highs has been lately. we'll see highs of around 10 or 11 degrees across northwestern areas. it's still though. in the far still cold though. in the far north of scotland, and as the next batch of rain bumps into that friday morning, that cold air on friday morning, there's of snow there's a risk of some snow across the highlands and grampians. and see grampians. and we'll see outbreaks heavy rain outbreaks of quite heavy rain push northern areas push through many northern areas throughout push through many northern areas throug though, it turns drier south, though, it turns drier as the goes but the weekend the day goes on, but the weekend is looking unsettled and seasonably windy, but exceptionally all exceptionally mild. that's all for bye bye . for now. bye bye. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> hello. good evening. it's me. jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation. tonight. rishi sunak has told the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu he is appalled by the idf strikes in gaza that killed seven aid workers, including three british citizens . but israel's citizens. but israel's carelessness does not help the fact that the west is on the precipice of war with iran and the sino—russian axis of evil. meanwhile, yet another poll has revealed that the tory party isn't doing terribly well facing electoral wipe—out. according to yougov, with the labour party taking more than 400 seats and as many as 11 current cabinet ministers, can the prime ministers, can the prime minister turn this around? half of hmrc's desks continue to be empty, with staff working from