gb news. >> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg , on state of the jacob rees—mogg, on state of the nation. tonight, the government is betraying our brexit freedoms by arbitrarily imposing trade costs for eu imports. making food more expensive for you , the food more expensive for you, the consumer. the whole point of brexit was to make trade easier and produce cheaper. so why is the government letting voters down.7 first, it was the right to trial by jury that was under threat, and now the sacred principle of equality before the law is under threat. two the judiciary has seemingly been captured by maoists as the sentencing council , presided sentencing council, presided over by the uber woke new lord chief justice, baroness carr of walton on the hill, considers reducing sentences based on someone's socio economic background. minister background. the prime minister has made his most forthright remarks about leaving the european court of human rights. yet in an interview with the

sun, he said controlling illegal migration important migration is more important than membership of the foreign court. ihappen membership of the foreign court. i happen to agree with him. a rise in demand for electric cars has fallen sharply, with more drivers opting for petrol and hybnd drivers opting for petrol and hybrid models. new ev registrations rose a mere 3.8% in march, which is typically the biggest car sales month for the yeah biggest car sales month for the year. so does this represent a turning point for the green agenda and a denouement you won't want to miss? could germany be on the cusp of being invaded when it finally faced a taste of its own medicine? state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my most intellectual panel, gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson, and the former tory mp and conservative commentator paul goodman . as commentator paul goodman. as always, as you know, i want to hear from you. it's a crucial part of the programme. email me mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now

it's what you've all been waiting for. your favourite part of the day? the news with polly middlehurst. >> jacob thank you and good evening to you. well, the top story from the gb newsroom tonight is that israel says it's going to adjust its tactics in the gaza war after killing seven aid workers and airstrikes after its military admitted it had been a major mistake, british aid workers john chapman, james henderson and james kirby were all working for the charity world food kitchen, which has demanded an independent investigation. meanwhile, here investigation. meanwhile, here in the uk, more than 600 british legal experts, including three former supreme court judges, are now calling on the uk government to stop selling arms to israel and this evening, civil servants at the department of business and trade dealing with arms exports, have threatened to go on strike after raising their own concerns about their legal degree of liability if israel is

found to be violating international humanitarian law . international humanitarian law. the former tory minister, sir alan duncan, is being investigated for comments he made which accused two conservative peers of, in his words, doing the bidding of israel's prime minister. sir alan served as a foreign office minister under theresa may. he said two of its prominent members, lord polak and lord pickles , should be removed from pickles, should be removed from the house of lords. it's understood the party has written to sir alan to inform him of the investigation , which may result investigation, which may result investigation, which may result in him being expelled. he says the case lacks substance and could prove dangerously harmful for conservatives a senior for the conservatives a senior conservative mp has admitted his involvement in potential tax fraud operations targeting several mps. william wragg, chairman of a commons select committee, told the times newspaper he had handed over the personal phone numbers of colleagues to a person he met online. wragg said he did so

because he was scared that the individual or organisation behind the scam had compromising information about him , and the information about him, and the prime minister said today britain could pull out of the european convention on human rights if it obstructs the government's rwanda plan. rishi sunak says controlling illegal migration is more important than membership of the echr . and he membership of the echr. and he wouldn't let a foreign court, as he called it, interfere in sovereign matters . the sovereign matters. the mastermind of an armed robbery in yorkshire 19 years ago that endedin in yorkshire 19 years ago that ended in the death of a police officer , has been found guilty officer, has been found guilty officer, has been found guilty of her murder. if you're watching on tv, footage has been released showing the two police officers as they responded to the emergency call. arriving at the emergency call. arriving at the scene of the armed robbery back in 2005. as a result, 38 year old sharon beshenivsky died when she interrupted that raid, which took place at a travel agents in bradford . she'd only agents in bradford. she'd only been a police officer for nine

months. piran ditta khan flew to pakistan two months after the murder and remained at large until he was arrested in 2020. meanwhile, judges have been told to consider more lenient sentences for offenders from depnved sentences for offenders from deprived or difficult backgrounds. the sentencing council, which sets guidelines for judges and magistrates, has forjudges and magistrates, has forjudges and magistrates, has for the first time outlined mitigating factors that it says courts should consider before handing down a prison sentence. they include poverty, low levels of education, discrimination and insecure housing. but critics say the law should treat everyone equally with the justice secretary, alex chalk, describing the guidelines as both patronising and inaccurate. that's your news. for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alerts. scan that qr code on your screen right now, or go to gbnews.com slash alerts . gb news.com slash alerts. >> gbnews.com slash alerts. >> the government is ignoring

the benefits of brexit with its new border checks regime . the new border checks regime. the whole point of brexit. as i said many times during the 2016 campaign, was to free ourselves from the protectionist racket thatis from the protectionist racket that is the european union . the that is the european union. the eu prohibits its members from negotiating its own trade deals . negotiating its own trade deals. for years this closed us off from likes of australia, from the likes of australia, canada , japan even canada, japan and even the united since leaving the united states. since leaving the eu, we have successfully negotiated a free trade agreement with australia and new zealand and japan. we're also in discussions with india and the gulf cooperation council for ftas and improvements with canada, mexico, switzerland and israel. none of which would have been possible from within the eu. we've also joined the trans—pacific partnership and that's passed law. this that's now passed into law. this trading bloc is projected to make up significantly more of global gdp than the eu over the coming decades , the last year to coming decades, the last year to march 2022, the latest figures available , the department for available, the department for international trade, received 192 trade barriers in 79 countries, and it's clear that

the future of global trade and economic growth does not lie with the eu, but rather with the anglosphere and east asia. look no further than the gdp growth between the us and eu 2008. the us and eu economies were roughly the same size, but now the us's gdp is two thirds larger than the eu's. there's no doubt that leaving the eu was the right decision to make for our country economically. that erstwhile engine of eu growth, germany , engine of eu growth, germany, has faltered while we've outgrown the other eu g7 member states in recent years. however the government has decided unilaterally upon an act of self—sabotage, essentially trying to make the united kingdom a mini european union. the government has announced that consignments of eu plant and animal products will face charges of up to £145 from the end of april , and trade groups end of april, and trade groups have understandably reacted with horror . have understandably reacted with horror. instead of removing checks with other safe countries, it's been decided that the overregulated eu is

dangerous . and the particular dangerous. and the particular problem with these checks is that they disproportionately affect small and medium sized businesses. they might not have a big effect on larger companies who can afford the border costs, but small and medium sized firms with smaller consignments will be forced either to stop the imports or pass the cost on to consumers. and these claims have been said to be a necessity of brexit. but that is just not true. it is our own sovereign choice. since 2020, eu goods have entered the country without these checks, so why are we doing them now ? these products, doing them now? these products, these food products come from a highly regulated market that is not inherently risky. they haven't secured any biosecurity risks over the past three, nearly four years. so why introduce such a loony policy now? when i was in government, the department for food and agriculture wanted to impose these checks. but fortunately, with the help of boris johnson, liz truss and suella braverman, we were able to stop them. but as it turns out, that was merely

as it turns out, that was merely a delay. it would in fact be more sensible to abandon them altogether. digital border technologies , coming known as technologies, coming known as the single trade window, should be implemented later this year and should be an and that should be an opportunity reduce friction opportunity to reduce friction on all our from safe on all our trade from safe countries , not just the eu. free countries, not just the eu. free trade benefits the consumer by cutting prices. this type of protectionism simply damages the economy and makes us all poorer as ever. let me know your thoughts mailmogg@gbnews.com and i'm delighted to be joined now by a regular on gb news, former lib dem candidate for the cotswolds and founder of save british farming, liz webster. liz, thank you for coming in. i have a sneaking suspicion it may just be possible we could agree on this, that the eu is a heavily regulated organisation, so why should we suddenly think she's from france is dangerous. it may not be as nice as cheddar from somerset, but it's not actively dangerous, well, it's not as simple as that . and it

not as simple as that. and it never is. the reality is that anything coming via rotterdam is able to get in without any checks. and obviously we're being penalised with checks. the answer is to agree to a veterinary agreement. a line dynamically aligned with eu regs , but that just we get rid of the barriers or most of them. but what you want to do is rejoin the eu. >> that's basically always been your it? your position hasn't it? >> because food and farming >> because for food and farming it is. >> let's m- m the wonderful >> let's have the wonderful picture from your family farm that when there a that came up when there was a campaign put the referendum. put it on the screen. now there go. yes screen. now there we go. yes that was your family farm. so we screen. now there we go. yes that vyou'our family farm. so we screen. now there we go. yes that vyou'our f.usily farm. so we screen. now there we go. yes that vyou'our f.us to farm. so we screen. now there we go. yes that vyou'our f.us to be n. so we know you want us to be effectively part of the eu. yeah. and if we align to their veterinary rules, we might as well not have left. that would be completely pointless. and we wouldn't of wouldn't get the advantage of cheaper consumers. cheaper food for our consumers. >> jacob, that >> the thing is, jacob, that we've left and we failed to remain and i accept that we have brexit. i'm not a i'm not a denier of reality, but now things have moved on and we're experiencing brexit and many of my friends in farming who did

believe in brexit have come round to realise that these trade deals are undercutting us with substandard foods and also the complete unfairness and hold on the eu food is substandard. >> no, no, the eu food isn't substandard. that's a different argument. >> i just explained anything coming via rotterdam. it's a huge port can come in here, including illegal food. if it goes and the illegal food is here. >> eu regulation. >> eu regulation. >> that's why food borne illness is going through the roof. >> it's into rotterdam , >> it's gone into rotterdam, it's regulations. it it's met eu regulations. it can't in without meeting. can't go in without meeting. >> we've left all of them. >> no, but, jacob, you can't just through over me. just sit through over me. >> you need to let me speak. >> you need to let me speak. >> i am letting you speak. >> i am letting you speak. >> you want me to be on >> but if you want me to be on the you need to let me speak. >> things that are transported through eu have eu regulations. >> don't, because we've >> no they don't, because we've left. of left. we've left all of the organisations we didn't have organisations and we didn't have to. that a decision by your to. that was a decision by your friend johnson. didn't friend boris johnson. we didn't have leave of the certain have to leave all of the certain bodies, ensured that we bodies, which ensured that we were within security system were within the security system of food system, but we've of the food system, but we've left all of that. so a friend of

mine who imports, foods imported some starch from india, which came via rotterdam, and it was absolutely full of bugs because nobody's checking anything that comes in here, including, hold on, hordes of illegal meat which is full of bugs, not refrigerated , and an absolute refrigerated, and an absolute risk to human health. >> but this is products being imported illegally. as you know perfectly well , goods that come perfectly well, goods that come from the eu into the uk through a legal challenge. a lot of them are coming now, going to be checked if goods are coming in illegally , that's an entirely illegally, that's an entirely different matter, as you know that they're evading checks anyway. so these checks don't stop illegal goods . they're stop illegal goods. they're nothing to do with illegal. >> didn't have anywhere >> we didn't have anywhere near this level illegal this level of illegal food coming we were within coming in when we were within the body of the european, had the body of the european, we had horsemeat from romania. horsemeat coming from romania. >> remember that >> you must remember that scandal, jacob. >> don't like eating >> we just don't like eating horse in this country. and it was the corporations. but was also the corporations. but also , you wouldn't even also nowadays, you wouldn't even know the horsemeat

know about the horsemeat because nobody's anything. you nobody's checking anything. you would. because every label is labels. for mints , minced labels. now for mints, minced beef, which packaged in the beef, which they packaged in the uk . and it doesn't even give you uk. and it doesn't even give you the origin of where that meat has come from. >> goods that come in from the eu are tracked right back to the farm, you know what i'm farm, as you know what i'm saying is should trust saying is that we should trust safe this includes safe countries and this includes new also new zealand, but it also includes the eu because their products are safe. you're trying to argue about something completely different, which is illegal goods coming into this country, which you try and check in completely different way. in a completely different way. smuggled meat and from smuggled meat and goods from india that are pretending to be from the eu. we won't be affected by this change in the regulations. >> millions pounds on white >> millions of pounds on white elephant checking facilities, which are not going to be used. first of all, we've got a labour shortage. >> they should be scrapped. those checking facilities i've recently come back from africa where i went from botswana through to zambia, and we had to go through significant checks

because of the agricultural risks of spreading disease . risks of spreading disease. >> we've already got bluetongue in britain now since brexit, and it is because we've got this no relationship with brexit. >> you're because we've not got any checks and we've left all of the food security mechanisms within the european union. this simply isn't true. we have kept checks on goods coming in from countries outside the eu, and illegal goods coming in has always been a problem. there's always been a problem. there's always been a problem. there's always been an issue with smuggling, and you're trying to conflate the two and blame them on which completely different. >> going back to i mean, you want argue and argue and want to argue and argue and argue and hold your position and that's to i'm that's what you want to do. i'm somebody that's in reality somebody that's based in reality and agriculture. and working in agriculture. i understand food and i understand the prices for british people for food. >> no, i want i want my constituents to buy food at competitive world prices. >> i promise . you promised the >> i promise. you promised the country they would get cheaper food and they should do more expensive because of brexit. also, events this also, other world events this is. but brexit has made food

more expensive and domestically produced food. >> true, we've got a trade deal with australia reduce with australia which will reduce the food. this is very the cost of food. this is very welcome. object to welcome. this is why i object to this. so strongly, because this is government is the british government deciding up the cost of deciding to put up the cost of food, which crazy. deciding to put up the cost of foo�*the 1ich crazy. deciding to put up the cost of foo�*the farmers razy. deciding to put up the cost of foo�*the farmers iny. deciding to put up the cost of foo�*the farmers in your >> the farmers in your constituency in somerset must be jolly upset. no, they're highly they're highly competitive. they have lost access to canada because of brexit and the trade. the trade problems in the trade agreements. they've lost access for all of their cheese. they're the biggest cheese producers in somerset. and secondly, you're saying that you favour australians coming in sending us hordes amounts of their, their products because to undercut us all we do and you all subsidise the europeans, irish, french and dutch. >> you want the you want the europeans to have an advantage on us. on us. >> on us. >> so we have huge trade barriers exporting to them, and you want them to have a freedom to come in as well and not have the same for tat trade barriers that farmers and that don't benefit farmers and they hurt consumers. no

different. sending your english team out to play in the world cup with chains on their legs and on their goods, we import from the eu. >> we don't produce . so why on >> we don't produce. so why on earth is the point in? well, i agree putting penalties on french cheese which we don't produce. >> you agree with me the >> you should agree with me the best model to protect best free trade model to protect our and food our standards and our food security is within the european union and single market. union and the single market. >> get rid of trade >> we should get rid of trade barriers, no advantages. we should of barriers should get rid of trade barriers for safe food. >> there isn't one advantage of brexit advantage . brexit a huge advantage. >> for british >> cheaper food for british consumers. you for consumers. liz, thank you for coming on. former lib dem candidate in to candidate liz weber coming in to see us. webster. webster. sorry. coming up, judiciary has coming up, the judiciary has seemingly been captured by maoists it threatens an maoists as it threatens an ancient constitutional principle equality the law. and equality before the law. and don't , the green agenda don't forget, the green agenda could be facing its biggest challenge yet. as motorists opt for petrol and hybrid cars over those ghastly electric ones. thank you very much

well, we've been talking about an act of self—harm by the government that seems to want to get the maximum disadvantage from brexit. and we've been getting the male in return. getting the male dogs in return. kate it's kate says, jacob, it's abundantly your abundantly evident that your government. his majesty's. government. it's his majesty's. but never mind has been determined sure brexit determined to make sure brexit wasn't these wasn't a success. hence these recent think recent import charges. i think had they been introduced from the beginning, things may have been french been different and the french may to come to a more may have tried to come to a more mutually beneficial arrangement. may have tried to come to a more mutu willbeneficial arrangement. may have tried to come to a more mutu will nevercial arrangement. may have tried to come to a more mutu will never knowrangement. may have tried to come to a more mutu will never know .angement. may have tried to come to a more mutu will never know . yournent. alas, will never know. your party itself, party is self—sabotaging itself, in . steve, the only in my opinion. steve, the only possibility for the apathy regarding westminster stance on a successful brexit is that they have no will for exiting the eu. the sacking of boris, the unwillingness to test european legislation can only mean remainers still hold parliament. the tories are willing to give up government so labour can be blamed for the new referendum. what be the reason for what else can be the reason for such weakness? never such weakness? we have never been only in name .

been able to leave only in name. well, thank you for those punchy messages. now it appears that the judiciary is the latest institution to be captured by the maoists. the sentencing council, presided over by the new uber woke lord chief justice, baroness carr of walton on the hill, has given our judges a new checklist setting out a number mitigations for out a number of mitigations for people offenders from people for offenders from disadvantaged backgrounds, factors such as alcoholism, drug addiction, housing and addiction, insecure housing and criminal relatives could all be reasons that offenders are given softer sentences. now, there's no doubt that some people in society have difficult backgrounds and starts in life. however, there is equally no doubt that people who live in depnved doubt that people who live in deprived communities are disproportionately at risk from crime offenders softer crime giving offenders softer sentences based on socioeconomic factors is an insult to law abiding people from all sectors of society. it's another example of society. it's another example of the woke bigotry of low expectations, and it creates a two tier justice system. joined now by my most intellectual panel now by my most intellectual panel, gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson, and

the former tory mp and conservative commentator and gazetted peer paul goodman. well, my lord, as i can now properly address you , sirjacob. properly address you, sir jacob. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> we're going to be in due course without a title , and i've course without a title, and i've gotten. yes. anyway the formality is very impressive, this seems to me to be undermining the basic principle that we are all equal under the law. >> i think, nigel will say, when you come to that, you've got to delve a bit into this report and to try to make sense of it in full. what struck me about it was that alex chalk , the justice was that alex chalk, the justice secretary, who's not really a raving rightist , secretary, who's not really a raving rightist, and he's very much someone on the sort of so—called moderate end of the conservative party, was concerned about the guidelines and thought that they pointed in the direction that you're describing . describing. >> i think that's very important because chalk lord because alex chalk as lord chancellor and justice secretary, somebody who , secretary, is not somebody who, willy nilly criticises the judiciary. he holds the judiciary. he holds the

judiciary in great respect. he's a proper lawyer. he fulfils the role of lord chancellor in the way it used to be filled, and attaches great importance to that. attaches great importance to that . for him attaches great importance to that. for him to attaches great importance to that . for him to criticise it attaches great importance to that. for him to criticise it is quite a statement. >> yes, he'll be very careful because previous, lord chancellors , i mean, it was sort chancellors, i mean, it was sort of liz truss at one point got herself into politically quite a difficult situation between the judges on the one hand, and downing street, demanding she denounce them on the other. now, alex chalk, temperamentally , alex chalk, temperamentally, would be someone who would not want to offend the judiciary, who will want to get on well with them, who will want to build bridges so for him to raise an eyebrow in print, which is he doing, thought is what he was doing, i thought was significant. was quite significant. >> should all >> nigel, surely we should all be front of the law, be equal in front of the law, and sentences therefore should be depending on what be equal depending on what you've where you've you've done, not on where you've come it rather come from, well, it rather depends on, on each individual, doesn't it? because if you are in a position of trust, say you're a police officer , you're you're a police officer, you're likely to get a greater sentence for stealing or something like

that than an ordinary person. on the other hand, that mitigations have been used in court for ages, so all this is doing is sort of codifying a bit more the mitigations. and so i think it goes back to , new labour's tough goes back to, new labour's tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. if you're going to deal with crime, you deal with it as a whole. so if you if people from disadvantaged backgrounds are more likely to be criminalised and that you've got to deal with but not surely by giving them lower sentences that may be at an earlier stage that you may be needing to look at what they're being taught in schools , why think a life schools, why they think a life of crime is a reasonable way to go they're given go down, whether they're given proper , particularly as a proper care, particularly as a lot of people who go into prison have been in the care of the state. >> for there are those sorts of issues , that you are up issues, but that when you are up before the judge, you've been found guilty serious crime found guilty of a serious crime should you really say, well, you

had a difficult upbringing, therefore we won't send you to prison? >> no, not that you weren't sent to prison. i mean, we're talking aboutis to prison. i mean, we're talking about is changing sentencing around depending on, a variety of so , so you've of factors. so, so, so you've mentioned an adult, your parents being imprisoned say that would being imprisoned say that would be a be a factor. you've got people who are, 50% of prisoners are only functionally literate. there's a whole host of things. reasons why they're more likely to turn to crime than other people. >> i mean, i think nigel makes a very fair point that you want to make sure that you are educating people properly, and then you might reduce crime because you won't have so many functionally illiterate life illiterate people for whom life is going to be is inevitably going to be harder, but that there are people are functionally people who are functionally literate who managed to make perfectly respectable lives. >> course , it is the >> well, of course, it is the case that at moment the case that at the moment the courts circumstances courts do take circumstances into account. i mean, take the case of a woman who has assaulted someone she's living with. if that person is violent

and has been violent towards the woman , the court will take that woman, the court will take that into account. court's always taking circumstances into account. but there's also another principle you've got away, which is that we're all equal before the law. and all other things being equal, you want to give people the same sentences for the same crime and not be too concerned if they're not be too concerned if they're not special circumstances about their backgrounds and special circumstances have to be very special that they can't just be. >> you went to university. therefore, the fact that you hit somebody on the nose is more serious than somebody who didn't get. >> there's also another issue which is that, if one is just to take example that is in this take the example that is in this particular report, if someone is up in court with a deprived background and they're given a lesser sentence simply for that fact, what about the person from a deprived background who hasn't committed any crime , and it does committed any crime, and it does seem to me that this new law chief justice , is going for chief justice, is going for quite a lot leftie causes quite a lot of leftie causes straight away. first of all, she

intervenes on the garrick club, which of her business. then which none of her business. then she's not so on jury trial she's not so keen on jury trial to the power of judges. to increase the power of judges. and she do and now she wants to do a socioeconomically based prison sentence. guideline is the judiciary becoming politicised? >> no, i don't think so. i mean, i think that that what she's i think that the that what she's actually looking at the actually doing is looking at the whole of criminal justice in the round. and that's my point about, about it. if you're if you don't take in all the cheap tabloid trick and say lefty journalist backs lefty lord chief justice, but that may be very unfair. >> now it's thursday, it's not 5 to 5 and it's not crackerjack. but i must reveal this week's wet wipe of the week. there are always many contenders. the winner of this week's wet wipe of the week are the rail bosses. why, you may ask? well, in spite of the fact they receive billions in subsidies paid for by you, they're yet again refusing to use the legislation passed parliament passed by parliament that enables ensure minimum enables them to ensure minimum services levels continue.

instead, satisfied instead, they seem satisfied with your day being ruined by their staff engaging in yet another round of industrial inaction. i suppose it just goes to show that these heavily subsidised rail companies need to force the free to feel the force of the free market, and hence the consequence of their actions . consequence of their actions. anyway, thank you, back to my panel now. we'll be back with our panel later. and coming up next, could the united kingdom be precipice of leaving next, could the united kingdom be foreign)recipice of leaving next, could the united kingdom be foreign court,:e of leaving next, could the united kingdom be foreign court, blocking ing next, could the united kingdom be foreign court, blocking our the foreign court, blocking our immigration policies? plus germany could be given a taste of its own medicine as it faces imminent invasion from a small african country. stay tuned for the details

well, your mail mmogs have been storming in as though we've been talking about the uber woke judiciary. david says jacob, why not stop sending people to court altogether? then we can sack all

the useless judges and lawyers. it might be anarchy, but otherwise a brilliant idea. derek, what world do these senior lawyers decision senior lawyers law decision makers are makers live in? all they are achieving actions achieving with stupid actions and guidance like this are making the lives of the law abiding british public much less safe. well, continuing on our legal theme , the prime minister legal theme, the prime minister has made his strongest statement yet when comes to withdrawing yet when it comes to withdrawing from echr. speaking the from the echr. speaking to the sun , rishi sunak has said that sun, rishi sunak has said that the rwanda plan is more important than remaining in the european convention of human rights. when it surprise you to know that i agree, i believe it is far more important that the united controls its united kingdom controls its border a member of a border than be a member of a foreign court. nation's foreign court. our nation's proud liberty did not proud history of liberty did not begin with the echr. in 1953. the european court continues to frustrate our attempts to combat illegal immigration. we must devise our own arrangements, one that protects our freedom and our borders . that protects our freedom and our borders. here that protects our freedom and our borders . here were the prime our borders. here were the prime minister's remarks. >> i believe that our scheme, including the rwanda part of it all, our plans to tackle illegal

migration. let me just answer the question, harry. i believe that our plans compliant that our plans are compliant with international with all our international obligations, echr . obligations, including the echr. but i believe that border security and controlling illegal migration is more important than our membership of any foreign court . court. >> well, my panel is still with me. nigel nelson and paul goodman, nigel, this is the ultimate culmination of tory party policy, which has been moving this direction, isn't it? >> well, yes, it's a disastrous policy. right from the start, from the illegal migration act to where we are at the moment. i mean, leaving the echr , seems to mean, leaving the echr, seems to mean, leaving the echr, seems to me a completely mad idea. how do we lecture other countries about international law? at the moment, having a go at moment, we're having a go at israel about certain things. how do lecture russia? how do we do we lecture russia? how do we lecture china, also the fact that you start undermining various british institutions, the good friday agreement would be in real trouble if we left the echr . the echr. >> well, i'm not sure about that. there's a very good report from the centre for brexit

policy, which sets out the requirements of the good friday agreement in relation to the echr , and it requires that there echr, and it requires that there be some ability to use it in northern ireland. it doesn't require the uk's membership. >> it's quite clear on that, no, but on a second. but but well hang on a second. it do on the that , it would do on the basis that, the echr is the ultimate arbiter for legislation passed through the northern ireland assembly. how would you, if it's not in that sense? >> it's not. you have to have allow appeals to it for northern ireland, but you don't need to have the uk, signed into it in the way that we now. it's the way that we are now. it's perfectly possible to change our relationship and relationship with the echr and maintain good friday agreement. >> the unions are going to like that terribly. that's another departure from from what departure from the from what what happens what actually happens in the rest the uk. what happens rest of the uk. do what happens in ireland. in northern ireland. >> the friday >> well the good friday agreement is inevitably different northern ireland. different for northern ireland. that's it. that's the whole point of it. there other northern there is no other northern ireland, obviously only ireland, obviously that only appues ireland, obviously that only applies so applies to northern ireland. so the the good the protections in the good friday agreement are friday agreement only are northern that's northern ireland matters. that's no change, know, but i mean,

no change, i know, but i mean, if if you start, upending if you if you start, upending it, we're going to start having to at renegotiating the to look at renegotiating the whole thing. >> i'm not quite sure how you feel that we could still use the echr as the arbiter of a dispute that may exist between because northern ireland and the main provision in the northern ireland act 1998 for the use of the echr rules in northern ireland, and that meets the conditions of the good friday agreement >> no, i understand that. so that's done. yes. and the rest of the uk. >> but what happens if the dispute between the dispute is, is between the northern ireland and westminster? >> northern >> well, northern ireland wouldn't have a dispute with westminster over the echr. i don't see how that would have a dispute about something else that's covered by if they if they want to pass a piece of primary legislation in the northern ireland assembly primary legislation in the nortiwestminsterissembly primary legislation in the nortiwestminster actually that, westminster actually opposes that, that's when the echr clicks in. no, no, no, the echr is never an umpire between , echr is never an umpire between, the government in westminster

and northern ireland. it's never been intended to do that. >> no, but the european convention is the one that underpins the good friday agreement law in northern ireland. >> but it's not a requirement of the to be a member. so i need the uk to be a member. so i need to bring paul in before we carry on down this line that it seems to me that this has been implicit on what the tories have been some and been saying for some time, and that sensible that the that it's sensible that the prime make it clear prime minister, to make it clear you've been having very you've just been having a very detailed conversation this detailed conversation about this in ireland. detailed conversation about this in but ireland. detailed conversation about this in but think ireland. detailed conversation about this in but think you ireland. detailed conversation about this in but think you needeland. detailed conversation about this in but think you need toind. detailed conversation about this in but think you need to look >> but i think you need to look at situation not as though at this situation not as though it's photograph, of it's a photograph, a kind of snapshot present moment, snapshot of the present moment, but need to look it as but you need to look at it as part of developing film. and part of a developing film. and what you have is a massive legal and illegal immigration into europe as a whole, largely from people seeking a better life. and why not? you have a whole series of international rules written in the 1950s for a different world and you have courts interpreting these rules. i don't think this is going to last ten years in europe as a whole. never mind here. so i

can't help seeing the round a scheme which probably won't work because of the particular circumstances of the time. rishi sunakis circumstances of the time. rishi sunak is having a trial run, and it is probably not going to win the general election, but i see it as the precursor to something that's going to happen in europe more which is we're more broadly, which is we're going more more of going to see more and more of these schemes offshore these schemes to either offshore migration introduce rwanda migration or introduce rwanda type schemes. >> and there will therefore be a bigger change. there will be we will in due course, new survey will in due course, a new survey has suggested the government is being by three being undermined by three quarters devon and quarters of schools in devon and cornwall on the question of gender analysis gender identity analysis conducted by protect and teach, a network of women concerned about gender ideology in schools, shown to the schools, which was shown to the telegraph , has shown that telegraph, has shown that the government's guidance, which explicitly idea that explicitly rejects the idea that students can change their gender without the knowledge of their parents, is being subverted by schools. of them may schools. while many of them may reject the idea of gender ideology surely ideology altogether, surely those who think it legitimate should at least accept first that schools should follow

government guidance. and second, that should involved government guidance. and second, th.these should involved government guidance. and second, th.these conversations involved government guidance. and second, th.these conversations ?1volved government guidance. and second, th.these conversations ? well, d in these conversations? well, back to my panel, paul, this is the study of devon and cornwall, but it's looked at 600 schools. so i think it's not unreasonable to say this could be the practice in england. it's pretty hopeless if schools aren't following the following guidelines from the dfe and are not willing to tell parents and are allowing young children to move on a gender reassignment path. >> so first the schools. i wonder if the schools might say yes, we have the guidelines from the government, but hey, our lawyers telling us lawyers are telling us that these are not these guidelines are not altogether consistent with the legislation that previous governments passed. legislation that previous govso ments passed. legislation that previous govso you'd passed. legislation that previous govso you'd say passed. legislation that previous govso you'd say it'sassed. legislation that previous govso you'd say it's aned. legislation that previous govso you'd say it's an equality >> so you'd say it's an equality act problem may well be an equality problem . equality act problem. >> that reason, don't >> and for that reason, i don't think be harsh on think we should be too harsh on the may actually be the schools. it may actually be government's not government's fault for not getting ducks row. getting its ducks in a row. >> so the government should move and into clear and turn this into clear legislation that everybody legislation so that everybody knows they stand. knows where they stand. >> shouldn't. i >> i think they shouldn't. i think should leave to think they should leave it up to the schools. whole situation the schools. the whole situation when identity when it comes to gender identity in been dealing

in schools, they've been dealing with for years, the best with it for years, the best outcome is if the child goes to the parents, the parents go to the parents, the parents go to the school and they arrange whether the uniform is changing. pronouns are things pronouns are changing things like that. the next best, best one. is where we have one. and this is where we have a problem with the guidance, is if the child goes to the teacher and asks the teacher to approach the parents, the worst possible outcome is where the teacher is suddenly presented with a situation where they need a bed for the night from a from local church groups or from social services, because the child has been chucked out by by the parents. so much better to let the schools to handle it in their own way. >> the problem is that this research seems to be showing that schools are actually encouraging people, and that seems to be more problematic. >> well, they're encouraging >> well, if they're encouraging it, yes. i mean, that's why i'm always dubious about the idea that schools are doing that. >> that's i want paul >> and that's why i want paul bnng >> and that's why i want paul bring back in, because where bring you back in, because where is the border between thinking you're law and you're following the law and actively encouraging my problem

with what nigel has just said is just not sure that the schools and the teachers want this responsibility . responsibility. >> i remember discussing this in a previous round with someone who was very much, in fact, he was a conservative as very much in favour of letting teachers and the schools decide the message. i got back when i made some inquiries about the schools don't the responsibility. don't want the responsibility. they have to take they don't want to have to take these decisions in these difficult decisions in case sued. they'd case they're sued. so they'd rather clear guidance , but rather have clear guidance, but clear guidance based on clear legislation. >> and the equality act is a problem because it has created this whole world where people it's this whole world where people ifs and this whole world where people it's and safety, it's like health and safety, that that health that people think that health and much more than and safety says much more than it and think it actually does. and they think the says more than the equality act says more than it does, and therefore they go further reasonable. further than is reasonable. >> of the >> i suppose one of the difficulties the equality difficulties with the equality act have these act is you you have these protected characteristics, all in legislation. went in the legislation. it all went through at the through what no one said at the time, because the time, probably because the politicians was quite reasonably didn't which didn't want to decide was which strand takes priority over what all that's been put in the hands

of the courts, and therefore you find that schools are actually in a very difficult position. >> to paul's point about wanting to both the guidance, to follow both the guidance, which doesn't have statutory effect, is effect, and a law that is unclear the courts effect, and a law that is unclear ruled the courts effect, and a law that is unclear ruled onthe courts effect, and a law that is unclear ruled on all courts effect, and a law that is unclear ruled on all this. :s effect, and a law that is unclear ruled on all this. yes, haven't ruled on all this. yes, absolutely . absolutely. >> and also all the way through, what trying to do is what they're trying to do is what they're trying to do is what is in the best interests of their . and that must be their pupils. and that must be their pupils. and that must be the must be absolute sort of the must be the absolute sort of responsibility teacher. responsibility of the teacher. and schools , this has and in most schools, this has actually been handled quite well, that they that if a child does want to transition and that's all been approved, then the issue is over. is over the other pupils, if say it's a boy transitioning to a girl, are the other girls happy to have that boy in their change room? is that kind of issue, which is a very, very difficult issue. >> well, thank you to my panel coming up next. electric car >> well, thank you to my panel comirarep next. electric car >> well, thank you to my panel comir are seemingly :tric car >> well, thank you to my panel comirare seemingly rising|r >> well, thank you to my panel comirare seemingly rising less sales are seemingly rising less quickly. so could this be a turning point for the green agenda? don't forget, i'll agenda? and don't forget, i'll be revealing the details the

be revealing the details of the imminent faced by imminent invasion faced by germany a small african germany from a small african state. elephants coming state. are the elephants coming home to roost? if elephants can roost our friends in europe? roost for our friends in europe? >> on patrick christys tonight, nine till 11 pm. far left radical groups are merging. we have a. gb news exclusive on an unholy alliance about to wreak havoc on britain's streets. the argentinian president is pledging over the pledging to take over the falkland go live to falkland islands. we go live to the falkland islands. plus, you believe rishi sunak when he says nothing is more important to him than protecting our borders. the reform mp lee anderson gives his damning verdict. don't miss patrick christys tonight, 9 to 11 pm.

i >> -- >> well, -_ >> well, we were debating the echr. the convention on human

rights. and anthony says the supreme court said that information from the un leads them to believe that rwanda is an country . as the un an unsafe country. as the un sends people to rwanda. did sends people to rwanda. why did the not accept that this the court not accept that this indicated safe? well, indicated rwanda is safe? well, that's point . and that's a brilliant point. and david, if the echr is the ultimate arbiter in human rights, are we to assume that the majority of the world doesn't sign up to it? is a cesspit rights abuses. cesspit of human rights abuses. it's good question , is it's a very good question, is the electric car revolution running of battery before running out of battery before it's even begun? figures out today show that the sales of electric cars are falling behind the wider market. are we surprised? electric cars are expensive, have limited range , expensive, have limited range, and the infrastructure to support them is scarce. outside the cities . i hope this the big cities. i hope this is the big cities. i hope this is the moment government the moment the government realises force realises that it cannot force people to buy vehicles they don't will rethink the don't want, and will rethink the looming ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars . i'm very petrol and diesel cars. i'm very pleased to be joined tom pleased to be joined now by tom burke, co—founder of erg climate change think tom, thank change think tank. tom, thank you coming in. i take the you for coming in. i take the view that if people want

electric cars, they will buy them and we should just let the market work. and if in 510 years they turn out to be marvellous, then somebody like me will eventually buy one and if not, i'll stick with petrol. isn't that a better way to do it? >> better than what? >> better than what? >> better than forced banning of petrol cars. >> anybody's having gun >> anybody's having a gun pointed head forced to pointed their head and forced to buy them. >> is what would happen. >> they're going to ban , petrol >> they're going to ban, petrol cars from 2030. cars from beginning from 2030. you'll to 80% will have to you'll have to 80% will have to be non petrol by 2030. and i think that's very good. yeah. >> no i think that's i, i think it's ambitious and i think it's the right thing to do. and i think it does encourage the motor industry to do something. it's to have do anyway. it's going to have to do anyway. or end up buying all our or we'll end up buying all our cars i don't cars from china. and i don't think very good idea. cars from china. and i don't thi i( very good idea. cars from china. and i don't thi i am very good idea. cars from china. and i don't thi i am deeplyary good idea. cars from china. and i don't thi i am deeply in good idea. cars from china. and i don't thi i am deeply in favour dea. cars from china. and i don't thi i am deeply in favour ofa. cars from china. and i don't thi i am deeply in favour of us so i am deeply in favour of us moving in that direction. and i'm not going to anybody. i'm not going to force anybody. you can't people to buy. you can't force people to buy. and way, just something and by the way, just something about run. about the way this story is run. sale vehicles went sale of electric vehicles went up sale of electric vehicles went ”p by sale of electric vehicles went up by 3.8. up last night by 3.8. >> it quite carefully >> i phrased it quite carefully to make sure that i didn't

exactly imply that they'd actually fallen overall. >> but it's a very interesting point to this because overall it's about our current it's about 15% of our current car sales are electric vehicles. now that difference fleet now that difference is fleet bias. and what it means is private individuals are not being helped. fleets are able to are able to take advantage of the fact that your overall cost in running a car, as is prudent for those companies , is lower. for those companies, is lower. if you have an electric vehicle. and what's happening because the government is not backing off on this, it's going to make it harder for private individuals. >> if it's lower, if the overall cost is lower, then people will buy electric cars. and if they've got the range and if they've got the range and if they don't fail when it's cold and things like that, people will buy them . the market will will buy them. the market will work well and i can't think why you don't just leave it to the market. need market. we didn't need a government to make us government regulation to make us buy than horses buy motorcars rather than horses and carriages. >> because if you're, i'd be very let the invisible very happy to let the invisible hand of the market if it hand of the market work if it weren't all the invisible weren't for all the invisible hands get in the way. so,

hands that get in the way. so, i mean, i don't believe in magic . mean, i don't believe in magic. >> and can get rid of some of >> and can we get rid of some of the interference? >> let's about about >> let's let's think about about about constraining about what's constraining people from what you rightly say from doing what you rightly say should be a choice that individuals make. well, let's, let's let's look what's let's let's look at what's happening in high inflation. let's look at high interest rates. let's look at a cost of living crisis. and then let's wonder why it's only the private, slowdown in the private sales of cars, not the fleet sales of cars, not the fleet sales of cars, not the fleet sales of cars. >> i have to look at some other things, that technological issues, that it is very difficult to charge car difficult to charge a car rapidly you can fill rapidly in the way you can fill it petrol rapidly, simply it with petrol rapidly, simply because of the way battery because of the way a battery being charged heats up, and that there's very little as yet that can be done about that technologically. >> that's true jacob. actually, i you can. in fact, you i think you can. in fact, you can get two different grades of charger you can super charger anyway. you can super charge. about you're charge. it takes about you're talking you're talking talking about. you're talking about, if you like, just to put this in the context of people's lives, talking about the lives, you're talking about the 20 or 25 minutes you might stop

at a but by the way, fill up with petrol in five minutes. >> that's 20 minutes. if i'm doing a 2.5 hour journey to somerset, which do regularly , somerset, which i do regularly, i increase it by i don't want to increase it by 20 to charge the car. 20 minutes to charge the car. when takes little time. when it takes so little time. >> know your time lot >> i know your time is a lot more precious than all our more precious than all of our time, but most people, time, but for most people, stopping people stopping for most people stopping for most people stopping on a on a on a long journey when you have to journey when you might have to recharge. and remember you're now mile for now talking about 200 mile for a flexibility, availability for a petrol car can easily do 400 miles, but how often does anybody drive 400 miles? not very often. you quite often do 200 miles and then another 200 miles. >> you may not do it all in one 90, >> you may not do it all in one go, and you're probably quite wise to stop if you're driving that far at a filling station and take a rest anyway for safety on the roads. >> so i frankly don't think this is a problem. it's is much of a problem. it's really think. really what i think. >> you see think is the >> you see that i think is the problem, the technology problem, that the technology isn't that the range isn't yet there, that the range isn't yet there, that the range isn't recharging is isn't there, the recharging is much slower. and that is a technological barrier because

batteries have to cool down as they're being charged, otherwise they're being charged, otherwise they overheat . they overheat. >> i have much more. i have much more confidence than you do in our engineers and our technologists, in people . i'm technologists, in people. i'm much is not very much more this is not a very significant barrier i'm trying to get towards. i'm trying to to get us towards. i'm trying to get agreement. get us towards agreement. >> you see, i think get us towards agreement. >> perfectly you see, i think get us towards agreement. >> perfectly possible i think get us towards agreement. >> perfectly possible that nk get us towards agreement. >> perfectly possible that in it's perfectly possible that in ten years time, these barriers will have been brought down and that we will sit here and say, goodness, electric cars are amazing and the petrol car is so out of date. but that should be market driven rather than this shutter coming down, pretty much beginning now , but write down by beginning now, but write down by 2035 so you cannot buy a new petrol car. >> jacob. markets aren't things that exist in isolation. they exist because governments up exist because governments set up rules by how they should work. so all saying is, should so all we're saying is, should you different you have somewhat different rules market works? rules in the way a market works? yeah, i'm great believer in yeah, i'm a great believer in the markets to drive the use of markets to drive change and in the competitive pressure of doing that. but you don't have that in an unbounded

way. if you have that in an unbounded way, what you get is anarchy chaos everybody anarchy and chaos and everybody loses copper. loses a point, lord copper. >> seems to me in this >> but it seems to me in this case, what you're getting is the government force government trying to force people an expensive people to buy an expensive and second product . well, it's second rate product. well, it's not as petrol car at not as good as a petrol car at the moment. not as good as a petrol car at the you nent. not as good as a petrol car at the you didt. not as good as a petrol car at the you did say were trying >> you did say you were trying for agreement, and clearly you and i disagree about whether it's or not, but but it's second rate or not, but but also we know also very simply what we know especially how markets especially about and how markets work, by the way, especially when you're a product like this, where the cost goes down, the more of them you, you buy, build . course the faster you . so of course the faster you build them, the the cost build them, the lower the cost comes . what to do is stop comes. what i want to do is stop having businesses an having businesses have an advantage isn't available having businesses have an ad private�* isn't available having businesses have an ad private individualsivailable having businesses have an ad private individuals because to private individuals because we're not helping the rules to accelerate this of taking accelerate this favour of taking the vat off charging points outside your own home down to 5, because that seems to me to be a racket . racket. >> so can we have one point of agreement? >> we are. >> we are. >> we are. >> we haven't got into the chinese manufacturing of batteries and child labour and all those of things. but all those sorts of things. but thank you much. have an thank you very much. we have an agreement now, last

agreement on one point now, last of all, throughout the program i've promising explain of all, throughout the program i've details romising explain of all, throughout the program i've details regarding explain the details regarding the imminent invasion of germany. yes, you heard correctly of germany earlier. i said the elephants could be coming home to have to be to roost. they'd have to be pretty sturdy trees for our friends in europe. did not friends in europe. and i did not mean figuratively . nellie mean this figuratively. nellie the elephant packed a drunk and said goodbye to the circus. >> off she went with the trump, trump, trump, trump, trump, nellie the elephant. >> back to trump. and trump pulled out of the jungle. >> off she went with a trumpety trump. trump trump, trump . trump. trump trump, trump. >> well, the botswanan president mokgweetsi masisi has threatened to send 20,000 elephants, not all called nellie, to germany as all called nellie, to germany as a means of protest against the german government's proposed restrictions on trophy hunting, imports , it seems to me a very imports, it seems to me a very brave thing to be trying to do. i don't know how they get them all there. they'll have to fly in jumbo jets. that's all from me. you're probably relieved to heat me. you're probably relieved to

hear. up next, it's patrick christys. you got christys. patrick, have you got any singing this any elephants singing this evening? although i for one, evening? no although i for one, welcome the elephant invasion, jacob. >> but no, i do have a big exclusive for you, though. two radical hard left groups are teaming up and saying that they are to plan mass criminal are going to plan mass criminal action into action over the weekend and into next week. we've done the police's job for them. we'll be exposing who they are, and we hope that maybe there could be some arrests at. one of your colleagues, of course, has outed himself being of this himself as being part of this sex scandal. so sex based honeytrap scandal. so we'll talking we'll definitely be talking about are going about that. gp's are going on strike well, strike as well, despite well, potentially fact strike as well, despite well, pote some' fact strike as well, despite well, pote some of fact strike as well, despite well, pote some of them fact strike as well, despite well, pote some of them are fact strike as well, despite well, pote some of them are on:t that some of them are on £140,000 a home office £140,000 a year home office trigger warnings civil trigger warnings and civil servants are going on strike over arms to israel. it's all kicking off, it's all going to be very good. >> and patrick of dock >> and it's patrick of dock green later green coming up later and that'll after weather. that'll be after the weather. i'll be back on monday at 8:00. i'm jacob rees—mogg. this has been and been state of the nation and you'll looking forward to the you'll be looking forward to the weather, have weather, because i have a feeling it may be telling you that the weather in somerset will be simply superb. i will be

motoring in a petrol motoring there in a petrol engined shortly after this engined car shortly after this programme ends, and i won't have to worry about filling up for 25 minutes with electricity because i've got petrol. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on gb news . news. news. news. >> hello again! it's a wet night for many of us with spells of rain crossing the country, staying cold in the north, and as those spells of rain move north, well, we'll see some hill snow across of scotland, snow across parts of scotland, but well and truly but low pressure well and truly in charge at the moment. one low departing into the north sea, the next low coming along for tonight. another low the way tonight. another low on the way for the weekend that's been named storm kathleen by met eireann because the strongest winds will be across ireland, but it will be a windy night tonight with outbreaks of heavy and rain, and persistent rain, particularly western hills particularly for western hills of first then of britain at first and then into by dawn. that rain into scotland by dawn. that rain through the central could through the central belt could cause issues and above 200

cause some issues and above 200 250m we're going to see some snow building up north of the central belts, and so that could affect some higher routes of central scotland during the morning, up to ten centimetres in places. but that does peter out through the morning and by the afternoon some brighter spells emerge, especially across parts wales, spells emerge, especially across parts there'll wales, spells emerge, especially across parts there'll be alales, spells emerge, especially across parts there'll be some where there'll also be some heavy it will stay heavy showers and it will stay blustery, the wind blustery, although the wind coming the south will lead coming from the south will lead to temperatures 18 celsius or to temperatures of 18 celsius or so parts of the so across parts of the south—east in scotland it stays cold and it's another wet start for scotland on saturday morning. of rain moving for scotland on saturday mornionce of rain moving for scotland on saturday mornionce again)f rain moving for scotland on saturday mornionce again followedyving for scotland on saturday mornionce again followed by|g north once again followed by showers. and it's a windy day. those winds peaking in western parts of the uk at 50 to 70 miles an hour, leading to big waves leading to disruption in places. but it's also going to be relatively warm with some brightness by the afternoon. and in england, highs of in the east of england, highs of 20 to 22 celsius looks like things are heating up. >> boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> it's 9 pm. i'm patrick christys tonight. a gb news exclusive. we expose two radical far left groups threatening to act next week. will the police stop them? also . i take you live stop them? also. i take you live to the falkland islands as residents tell argentina's president where to go and whilst having my coffee, i use this opportunity to update myself with the current news and reply to any urgent emails. with the current news and reply to any urgent emails . gps on to any urgent emails. gps on about £140,000 a year are set to strike. should they be banned from walking out on patients. plus, mr speaker, i said