and webb, and the author and broadcaster amy nicholl. tana as always, as you know, i want to hear from you. it's a crucial part programme. email me part of the programme. email me mailmogg@gbnews.com. part of the programme. email me mailmogfavouriters.com. part of the programme. email me mailmogfavourite partn. part of the programme. email me mailmogfavourite part of the it's your favourite part of the day. the with polly day. it's the news with polly middlehurst. >> jacob, thanks very much indeed and good evening to you. well, the top story from the gb newsroom tonight is that west yorkshire police have confirmed that a nationwide manhunt is now underway for the man wanted in connection with the murder of a woman in bradford. they confirmed today. the suspect is also known to them, 25 year old habiba masum is a bangladeshi national who came to britain on a student visa. police say he knew the victim, who was stabbed as she pushed her baby in a pram while out shopping. the baby is unharmed . police want to speak unharmed. police want to speak to any taxi drivers who may have dnven to any taxi drivers who may have driven the suspect to bradford moor park, and they're warning the public not to approach him, but instead to call 999 with any

information . ii but instead to call 999 with any information . 11 people have been information. 11 people have been arrested following a pro—palestine protest at the labour party's hq. the group , labour party's hq. the group, known as youth demand, sprayed both the inside and outside of the building in red paint from loaded fire extinguishers. the protesters claim that the party is complicit in the murder of palestinians in gaza. it's after sir keir starmer reiterated his call for the government to explain whether israel is violating international humanitarian law in gaza. meanwhile, the labour leader says the nhs is on its knees and he's promised to modernise it if the party wins the next election . it's hoped that a plan to digitise the red book of health records, which parents receive when a baby is born , will boost when a baby is born, will boost vaccination rates and improve access to health care. that would see parents receiving automatic notifications for appointments and health information via the nhs app. sir keir starmer says the plan will

make the nhs fit for the future. everybody has that. >> red book knows that it can get lost, it can get forgotten. all the details have to be re—entered. it wastes a huge amount of time. and this is an example of the sort of reform that we want in the nhs. obviously, everybody will know the nhs is absolutely on its knees. if we're elected into government, if we're privileged enough to come into government, we have to pick the nhs up, put it its feet. but we also need it on its feet. but we also need to make it fit for the future. and that's where the reform comes in. >> sir keir starmer, now the prime minister, has dismissed suggestions prime minister, has dismissed suggesti

of its future . millions of of its future. millions of senior citizens will be feeling the benefits of an 8.5% pension boost today, worth up to £900 annually for people claiming the full amount that means last year's rate of £10,600 will now rise to 11,500. but the liberal democrats say so—called stealth taxes will wipe out over three quarters of the increase as more pensioners are dragged into paying pensioners are dragged into paying income tax. that's the news. for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alerts, scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts . to gb news. com slash alerts. >> for years, the labor party accused the conservatives of trying to privatise the national health service. this reached absurd heights in 2019, when jeremy corbyn made the ridiculous claim that boris johnson was going to sell the nhs to donald trump. it was

precisely this sort of sentimentality and hysteria that has held back the nhs. but finally the labour party has turned a corner. the shadow health secretary, wes streeting, has declared, as if he were vying for a tory leadership bid that, quote, the nhs is a service, not a shrine. and he went on to say, pouring more money in without reform would be like pouring water into a leaky bucket. we will also use spare capacity in the private sector to cut the waiting lists. middle class lefties cry betrayal. the real betrayal is the two tier system that sees people like them treated faster , while them treated faster, while working families like mine are left waiting for longer. that's the end of the quote. and while i think that the labour party is really trying generally to say as little as possible before the election, just hopes to win by not being conservative, i think wes streeting has started a really important conversation , really important conversation, because it's with this that we can begin to fix the problem that the health service has now ,

that the health service has now, you probably know that it uses the nhs, uses the private sector already to its advantage. gps have independent contractor status and while they are part of the nhs, they are paid separately and are not a formal part of the bureaucratic machine. in mental health services. the nhs has been using the private sector for residential and mental health care for years, and it can work private contractors also granted for pharmacies out of hour gp appointments, patient transport, diagnostics and other things. the point is none of this has threatened the principle of health care being free at the point of use. but there are other areas where we can use the private sector to help the struggling system. along the trouble is that for too long, the conversation has always been if we don't have fully nationalised provision and supply of health care, we will become like america . but this is become like america. but this is nonsense. other nations have devised health care systems that are free at the point of use,

but don't necessarily have the entire system nationalised germany. that liberal paradise to which we are so often compared by the left, is uses an insurance based system that comes out of people's wages. it enables markets to compete while ensuring everyone is covered. australia has better health care results, spends less as a proportion of gdp and operates under a public private model. japan uses an insurance based system that ensures everyone is covered. it has better results than we do too. it's similar in canada, france and belgium, mr streeting said in his article for the sun that the public doesn't trust the tories with nhs reform. now if there were any truth in this , it's because any truth in this, it's because of decades of fear mongering from the labour party about privatisation. even the labour party can now recognise that using the private sector to assist the health service, which, as i say, is already done to a considerable extent, does not mean privatising or getting rid of the free at the point of use principle. the basic tenet

then , in the tories should now then, in the tories should now consider embarking on a radical agenda of health care reforms. two taking advantage of the opportunities that the private sector brings, mr streeting may to paraphrase disraeli, have found us bathing and stolen our clothes. or perhaps the alternative disraeli quotation is that we've got labour men with tory measures as ever. let me know your thoughts. male margaret gb news. com but i'm very pleased to be joined now by doctor bashar mukherjee , who's doctor bashar mukherjee, who's coming to talk about this. thank you so much forjoining me. this is important statement by is an important statement by wes streeting , isn't it.7 streeting, isn't it.7 >> i think so, and i think i like that the labour party are taking the point of view of embracing change. and i think the public needs to as well, because the, the demographic of the uk has changed. we're not what we used to be 20 years ago. the population is neither racially, culturally, financially the same anymore .

financially the same anymore. and i do think we all need to embrace this change and actually , i'm looking forward to what wes streeting will do as , wes streeting will do as, potentially the future, health secretary >> well, and even if he isn't, he's made this topic discussable whereas previously it was a competition as to who would give the nhs more money. and i think one of his most important comments is that putting more money in is like putting water in a leaky bucket, that it's about structures rather than in a leaky bucket, that it's abormoney. ures rather than just money. >> i 100% agree. i think there's so much wastage in the nhs and personally it just breaks your heart to see the money that actually is not free. people think that the nhs is free, it's not. we are paying for it every day with our from our national insurance and various other ways of taxation. but people are not getting what they're paying for and that's because of extreme amounts of wastage. you've just got to walk down a corridor in a hospital in any hospital, in any parts of the country, to see

broken beds, broken it, which people have paid for, but they're just left after they've been bought out. they cost a lot, by the way. >> and why do you think this is.7 what >> and why do you think this is? what do you think has been leading to this waste? because obviously good and competent people are working in the nhs. they to it well. so why they want to do it well. so why are the beds left broken and the and the it problems we've known about for years? about for many years? >> i still to >> i am still trying to figure this mr you know, i'm this out, mr mogg. you know, i'm thinking is just down to, thinking this is just down to, generation after generation of people being burnt out. i feel i worry that do people just not care anymore? people just so numb to all the things that are going wrong around them. i felt that in certain points where i've looked at the waiting list in a&e and it's been eight hours and you just end up smirking to yourself because nothing surprises you anymore . and i surprises you anymore. and i worry that that's what the current nhs is turning all the clinical staff into. but that does not excuse for the number

of managerial staff we have. we have 50% managerial to 50% clinical, but we're a clinical service, so why is the wastage so heavily on managerial. >> but that comes back again and again doesn't it. about shouldn't the clinicians be managing. and then the next thing you have is complaints that the clinicians are spending their time managing rather than being and that's being clinicians. and that's another the difficult another of the difficult problems within in the so problems within in the nhs. so do you think buying in some private sector resource will help, or is that going to be a small part of the solution? >> i think as a clinical person myself, it's really difficult to say exactly what the solution is. but i do think that our population needs to be to prepared be more frugal with their use of the health care system and not be abusive of it, and currently, we still have a very, you know , a mindset of very, you know, a mindset of trying to abuse the system just because you can just because it's free. and i worry that is

this a problem that we are we're almost advertising to other countries as well, with people coming over to this country to do health tourism or even people who are coming in with immigrant like status and just using the services without necessarily paying services without necessarily paying any money into the national insurance, or they're not to tax taxes at all. >> that's a really interesting point about people taking a free service for granted , because service for granted, because it's just there. they think, well, i may as well get away. and even though it's something that i could probably take a couple of aspirin for, and then you your eight hour waits you get your eight hour waits with people who have serious conditions and we've seen the papers today, the numbers who may actually be dying because they're not being by a&e in they're not being seen by a&e in time, then having to wait longer because now how do you change that in a system that's free at the point of use, which the country's very attached to as a principle? i think it's we underestimate our population and the human mind . the human mind. >> we were able to make such rapid change in the mindsets of

people in terms of when we were deahng people in terms of when we were dealing with the pandemic , in dealing with the pandemic, in terms educating our terms of educating our population handwashing, mask population on handwashing, mask usage and the population complied, achieve complied, how did we achieve that ? i think complied, how did we achieve that? i think patient complied, how did we achieve that ? i think patient education that? i think patient education is absolutely central to this, and this needs to start absolutely at the grassroot level , from school level, in level, from school level, in fact, of getting a baseline, understanding of health education, understanding what conditions can be something you can manage at home versus you need to go into hospital for. because that's exactly what you're saying, that currently, just because of the number of patients that are turning up at acas, unfortunately, the more unwell patients are the ones that are going to be at disadvantage . disadvantage. >> and one of the interesting discussions i had with the manager of a hospital was that dunng manager of a hospital was that during the junior doctors strike, where more consultants were involved, they were willing strike, where more consultants we make olved, they were willing strike, where more consultants we make fasterthey were willing strike, where more consultants we make faster decisions willing strike, where more consultants we make faster decisions and ing to make faster decisions and therefore you got through the numbers in a&e and they're thinking of restructuring in the hospital concerned to have more consultants on duty because of

the faster flow . so there are the faster flow. so there are structural things that can be done , that's an interesting done, that's an interesting point. you make , i'm not sure if point. you make, i'm not sure if that's a sustainable model though, because consultants, if they are doing what something is a little bit i suppose somebody slightly less experienced is able to do then we we're going to compromise their action on on what they do best essentially. >> yeah. but it's interesting. this conversation's now started and we're not just in that trench of more money. >> i agree with that. >> i agree with that. >> thank you very much , doctor >> thank you very much, doctor mukherjee, for joining >> thank you very much, doctor mukherjee, forjoining me. mukherjee, for joining me. coming up, i will be breaking my silence on the william wragg westminster honeytrap affair as the metropolitan police announces an investigation. and don't forget, i'll be talking about what happened to billions of pounds of your money with my government predecessor

well, actually, whilst you were away, we were talking about the fact that today is the feast of the annunciation. moved from holy week. but you have been sending in your mail moggs on the and pete says when the nhs. and pete says when labour was last the cost of labour was last in, the cost of the nhs trebled. it did not get three better, the three times better, but the number managers trebled. greg number of managers trebled. greg says boris johnson said he wouldn't drive the nhs since he made that statement. it's quite obvious instead obvious that instead of privatisation, made privatisation, he just made it so unworkable to so bad it's unworkable to function. , everything function. and jeff, everything seems so unsolvable. people are becoming apathetic. oh becoming more apathetic. oh dean becoming more apathetic. oh dear. that's a gloomy thought . dear. that's a gloomy thought. no apathy at gb news judge not that ye be not judged. these are words that should be seared on the heart of every sensible politician. the cry of any length. all politicians make make mistakes, and they should not be too harshly criticised by other politicians as long as they're made in good faith and with the right intention . it's with the right intention. it's different if they're incompetent

or acting in bad faith . now or acting in bad faith. now william wragg, who is at the centre of a storm, has never followed this advice and has always been willing in his glasshouse to throw stones when people fallen below his people have fallen below his high standards. so the question anses high standards. so the question arises of how much sympathy does he deserve for falling for a pretty obvious honey trap? sending deeply insalubrious photographs over the internet and then revealing telephone numbers that he held as a matter of trust for other politicians. the chancellor exchequer, jeremy hunt, thinks he's courageous, but can somebody who is simply so silly remain as vice chairman of the very powerful 1922 committee and as the chairman of the public administration committee, two jobs that allow the media to refer to him as a senior conservative or even as a tory grandee. well with me now is my panel writer in gb news is very own amr webb and the author and broadcaster amy nicole turner . amy, how sympathetic turner. amy, how sympathetic should we be? >> i was sympathetic at the act of sending the as you say,

insalubrious photo. however, my sympathy ended when he then saw fit to throw away 14 of his colleagues numbers, which is a clear, massive security breach. and my sympathy ended even more so when, by his own standards, he's called for people to resign for a far, far less. he didn't think he should resign, and then for him to not have the whip removed. additionally, yeah, my sympathies run out and for somebody to send photos like that and then be called courageous and brave by our chancellor is bizarre. and i think it's interesting that diane abbott was completely right when she pointed out that she had got more flak for drinking a mojito on the train than he's got , but but what what than he's got, but but what what william willie wragg's done . william willie wragg's done. >> so would the old william wragg have called for william wragg have called for william wragg to resign? >> almost certainly. >> almost certainly. >> think the temperature has >> i think the temperature has just plummeted in hell and it's frozen over because amy and i

agree with each other for the first time. >> but i also initially i felt i felt quite bad for him because, you know, my first instinct was how awful must be to be how awful it must be to be blackmailed in way , but in, blackmailed in this way, but in, you know, the first obvious point to make is that it's he should he nigel farage is right. he called him an idiot, should he nigel farage is right. he called him an idiot , that he he called him an idiot, that he should have known better than to send these texts in the first place. these messages, but there is an obvious security problem. and actually, i think this goes back your , referring to his back to your, referring to his roles on those various committees he should almost committees that he should almost certainly resign for if he has any integrity from, if he has any integrity from, if he has any because he, he any integrity because he, he allowed himself to be vulnerable in this way. and this is not just about the security of the individual mp. this is also about the security of our democracy. because if mps are not, can can't be trusted to behave in a way that is upstanding and moral with respect to these sorts of things, then they're actually putting our democracy at risk.

and that's a real fundamental personal flaw. and so i think it would be right for him to resign from those committee. >> but amy, he's young. he's 37. yeah. >> 37 seems to me to be still is older than 30 years. no. better yeah, he was under pressure. it must be a really nasty thing to be blackmailed that somebody saying to you and putting pressure on you, you don't know what to do. you think it may become that would become public? that would be a further pressure somebody in further pressure on somebody in the public eye to go back to my first point about judge not that ye be not judged. wouldn't most people potentially behave in this give to in the this way and give to in the first push of blackmail? >> 14 mps were contacted. i think only three replied and luke havers mp went straight to the police with this. i think as mps you'll know more than me that you sign a code of conduct, and in that it says you shall protect the dignity and the integrity of the house. what integrity of the house. at what point think he was under? >> i mean, luke evans, a great man. he was my pps and is really a first class individual, so it doesn't surprise me that he he

got right of how got it right of how appropriately to react in this situation to have good judgement. >> this shows massive lack of judgement. if huge judgement. so if under huge pressure, huge pressure, i think if gone straight to if he'd just gone straight to the then this would the police then, then this would all that would be showing, demonstrating sort of demonstrating he has the sort of judgement that we expect from our servants. however, our public servants. however, can angela rayner can you imagine if angela rayner had this? angela rayner had had done this? angela rayner had sent have these sent these have had these pictures sent to her and then sent 14 shadow cabinet phone numbers out. whoa. it would be on the front page for the rest of the year. >> i think he made an idiotic mistake. he apologised. he knows you could tell that he was expressing so much compunction. he really feels guilty. he knows that what he's done is wrong. his judgement. he made a serious, serious error of judgement in not only in sending the initial text, but then in further handing over those, phone numbers. but i think what's really mystifying thing is jeremy hunt describing it as courageous. i think that's very strange. >> isn't the success of

blackmail that lots of people, when presented with a blackmailer, pay the first £100? and that's basically what he's done. and that that is something that which a lot of our fellow citizens . sorry for him. citizens. sorry for him. >> i initially felt sorry for him because i think that to be blackmailed in that way and you can understand how someone might be thinking when they even, you know, handing over those images in first instance, he made in the first instance, he made himself and probably himself vulnerable, and probably because kind of because he felt some kind of investment the first place. investment in the first place. in so, it was an error of in doing so, it was an error of judgement, and i'm sure of judgement, and i'm sure lots of other people, and i, you other people, lots and i, you know, i know people who have experienced blackmail. is an experienced blackmail. it is an awful i do feel sorry awful thing. so i do feel sorry for in terms of his for him in terms of his experience at that stage. but it's also a question about the security democracy. if security of our democracy. if you know, mps don't exercise theirjudgement you know, mps don't exercise their judgement , wisely you know, mps don't exercise theirjudgement , wisely in you know, mps don't exercise their judgement , wisely in those their judgement, wisely in those times, because the on either of you explain to me, bearing in mind we're a family program why anyone ever sends pictures of themselves in a state of

undress. >> well, we've we've discussed this, didn't we? >> and we said it's because sometimes the heart thinks before the head. the heart. >> well, in that case, i'm not going to have one of those. i mean, i just do not i do not understand this. and i especially this instance, especially in this instance, it wasn't just it wasn't just somebody. >> i think it's silly to send anything electronically, even to someone that, you know, but in this instance , he was sending it this instance, he was sending it to somebody that he hadn't even met which it is such met yet, which is why it is such an extraordinarily idiotic lost like idiotic, and the like lottery idiotic, and the type of that if anyone type of thing that if anyone else it, he'd be the first else did it, he'd be the first in line to say they should resign. >> he must feel he should. >> he must feel he should. >> no, he must feel horrendously embarrassed i do embarrassed by this. so i do just enough to leave. >> he was so embarrassed and >> if he was so embarrassed and he much regret, he he has so much regret, surely he would step aside. would just step aside. >> i don't think there are any photographs of me in adult adulthood a tie on, adulthood without a tie on, unless when playing unless possibly when playing cricket, anger, cricket, showing a bit of anger, william wragg issued this william wragg has issued this statement. had compromising statement. they had compromising things me. they wouldn't things on me. they wouldn't leave would ask leave me alone. they would ask for i gave them some

for people. i gave them some numbers, not them. i told numbers, not all of them. i told him to stop. he's manipulated me and other people. i and i've hurt other people. i got chatting to a guy on an app and we exchanged pictures. we were to meet up drinks were meant to meet up for drinks but didn't. then he started but then didn't. then he started asking numbers of people. i asking for numbers of people. i was because he had stuff was worried because he had stuff on . he gave a whatsapp on me. he gave me a whatsapp number which doesn't work now. i've weak, i've hurt people by being weak, i've hurt people by being weak, i i'm mortified . i'm i was scared, i'm mortified. i'm so sorry that my weakness has caught other people hurt. well, thank you very much to my panel coming up next, how would you feel about renaming the foreign office that once office the institution that once governed a quarter of the world global plus , i will be global affairs plus, i will be reciting some poetry in protest against trigger warnings

well, we were talking about william wragg and you've been sending in trenchant views. alan says andrew jenkins mp and nigel

farage are correct. william wragg mp should be suspended pending an investigation. if found guilty of an offence or have contravening parliamentary or conservative rules, or conservative party rules, he should dismissed as an mp. should be dismissed as an mp. and gary says why is it that the highly paid ceos of the various nhs trusts are never challenged by the media when there are issues that they're supposed to be responsible for fixing? surely individuals should be responsible for fixing? su|held individuals should be responsible for fixing? su|held accountableials should be responsible for fixing? su|held accountable for should be responsible for fixing? su|held accountable for the uld be held accountable for the effective running of the service rather than government ministers . and says, and i think . and katie says, and i think this a very important point, this is a very important point, how would you feel if you were in wragg's situation and we should always try and think of what would be like if we were what we would be like if we were in somebody shoes. a kind in somebody else's shoes. a kind of national palace or drawing room for the nation. these were the words of george gilbert scott, one of britain's most celebrated architects, to describe his magnum opus, the foreign, commonwealth and development office. the resplendent grade one listed building was built to impress, visiting dignitaries and is where some of the most important foreign policy decisions of the

last 100 years were made. yet this great monument to british values, the drawing room for the nation, has been sharply criticised in an excoriating polemic produced by ucl and hertford college, oxford, as an elitist edifice which supposedly has too many colonial era paintings, which is out of step with yawn. britain's current position in the world. these people are so boring , aren't people are so boring, aren't they?it people are so boring, aren't they? it suggests that modernisation of the building may create a more open working culture. and viewers, will i think, be amused by this, because civil servants aren't going into work, so how can they have an open working culture? the report also describes british attempts to project greatness as anachronistic. certainly, britain is not the power it once was , but we power it once was, but we shouldn't be so defeatist. we shouldn't be so defeatist. we should think of our wonderful history and our continuing role in the world. only last week we were ranked as the second most powerful country in the global soft power index. well, my panel is still with me. emma webb and

amy nicole turner, amy, the english, the english, the enghsh english, the english, the english are best. i wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest. quote flanders and swann i. >> ..- >> same .._ >> same old, i. >> same old, same old with the criticisms. actually, you and i spoke about this once before when i was writing a piece for the spectator, and you made the point that one of the great things about the government buildings and working in parliament is you it's one parliament is that you it's one of the reasons why it's so offensive to ideologues is that , offensive to ideologues is that, that they are, incapable of, you know, that being in a, in a modern working environment allows them to forget anything except the endless present that they're working in, yeah. i think , that with the civil think, that with the civil service and i'm in favour of some flexible working hours in certain jobs, but with the civil service, of course, they should be. they should. how can you run a country from from your bedroom? >> well, i agree with that. in parliament there are wonderful pictures of our history, and it's such a powerful

advertisement for our belief in democracy. if you look at the pictures going all the way through from alfred the great, varne magna carta to the civil war, an understanding of where we've come and therefore we've come from and therefore what want to do next. what we want to do next. >> yeah, think what we've >> yeah, but i think what we've established that we want to do next organically in our legislation needs to echo that rather than way round. rather than the other way round. >> that we are going to be >> is that we are going to be working from home because it's actually proved. >> but but shouldn't we be proud of our nation whether we're working i think working at home with i think we'll of our nation we'll be prouder of our nation without great buildings. >> with these discussions about where we're working and if we're talking about, say, the civil service for example, we want the most talented people, but where we're working is a sort of side effect of this report. >> is really about saying >> this is really about saying the foreign office should be rebranded. >> i don't have a problem with that. >> really. i just think it's just wet. move. we roll just so wet. we move. we roll like, what's thing? like, what's the thing? >> not i actually >> it's not just i actually think it's immoral. i think it's unethical. i can't and i know that that's i know that that

sounds it's an sounds like it's quite an extreme statement. but actually when we've seen in all when you we've seen this in all sorts institutions as well, sorts of institutions as well, there an aspect this that there is an aspect of this that is deeply immoral. and those buildings, same buildings, it's the same with cathedrals . there's element cathedrals. there's an element of transcendence, element of the transcendence, an element of the transcendence, an element of i think that's of truth. and i think that's what so offends activists who are who want are relativists, who want to erase foundations of erase the foundations of our national identity . see that national identity. see that these do have a self—confidence that doesn't fit with this self repudiation, that we're always forced to wallow. and it's like having your head constantly dunked underneath the water. >> do you think? because i think your heads are under the water by constantly trying to perpetuate that? the past was brilliant britain great brilliant and britain is great and all this stuff? >> if we weren't great, >> well, if we weren't so great, why did 1.4 million people want to come here the last two years? >> currently we're not that great because our productivity is so we need is absolutely woeful. so we need to out a way move to work out a way to move forward. and if you have this sentimental pity for this anachronistic kind anachronistic past and you kind of energies of focus all your energies on that, are we going that, then how are we ever going to develop? >> that's the incentive >> surely that's the incentive to do is that we were

to do better is that we were great and therefore we should try and be again. we try and be great again. we shouldn't just home shouldn't just sit at home in our vegetating when our bedrooms vegetating when there's work to be done. >> but the thing is, we lost 500,000 people out of the workforce after covid. people didn't want to go back to work. so realistically, we need to kind of try and think, why is that? and make work appealing if we're going to have the growth that we so badly need . that we so badly need. >> i think it's not about the past, though. it's also about the and i think if the future. and i think if you're sitting at home and you're sitting at home and you're on dining room table you're on your dining room table or the end of your bed or at the end of your bed working from your on working from your lap on your laptop, the laptop, that is not the foundation of right foundation of the right environment for building a great nafion environment for building a great nation . and when you're in an nation. and when you're in an environment like parliament, like the beautiful foreign and commonwealth office , it's one of commonwealth office, it's one of my favourite buildings in whitehall. there is this sense of confidence and hope, and i do think that that is actually offensive to the activists who want to erase these things. that is a proper foundation for a

great nation acting in the world. sitting on your bed at home is not. >> and i want to broaden this out a bit because i think i was touching on a really important point, which is values. touching on a really important point, which is values . and point, which is values. and surely we believe in our values. we believe in democracy, we believe in freedom of speech, we believe in freedom of speech, we believe in freedom of speech, we believe in the rule of law. and these are epitomised by our buildings, which show confidence in what our values have achieved and can achieve in future . and can achieve in future. >> yes, but i think those those buildings can also be quite intimidating for a lot of people. and this taps into this idea that you too like to characterise. working from home as people sitting on their. >> well, we're coming on to working from home because i'm with actually, with me when actually, amy, we've got measures introduced over weekend . mean employees over the weekend. mean employees now have the to ask for now have the right to ask for remote from the very remote working from the very first in their job. so we're first day in their job. so we're going encourage even more going to encourage even more idhng going to encourage even more idli but this is what frustrates >> but this is what frustrates me with characterisation of me with your characterisation of working home, because it's working from home, because it's not idling, is it's not about idling, is it? it's about it is about complete idling, burdening the talent

pool i idling, burdening the talent pool. i think the times idling, burdening the talent po my i think the times idling, burdening the talent po my i that( the times idling, burdening the talent po my i that i the times idling, burdening the talent po my i that i could the times idling, burdening the talent po my i that i could have mes in my life that i could have really used flexible working when baby, when i had when i had my baby, when i had to care for my grandma when she was are two was dying. those are the two times. and was taken out of times. and i was taken out of the workforce those times. the workforce at those times. >> since have worked from >> since people have worked from home, had decline in productivity. >> the public sector that is costing about £30 billion a yean costing about £30 billion a year, ons has has never year, the ons has has never found there was any any decrease in productivity . in productivity. >> but we have found the hybrid model of working has been found to increase productivity. >> we have found that the public sector as a whole, since working from home and covid came in, has gone by i know that gone down by 6. i know that coincidence not causality, coincidence is not causality, but pretty strong coincidence. >> it's also about discipline. and back to what we and this goes back to what we were saying buildings were saying about the buildings and because if we were and values. because if we were a more and more disciplined people, and i think we as a culture very think that we as a culture very clearly lost clearly have lost our discipline, that would be one thing. if you're a company thing. what if you're a company and andi thing. what if you're a company and and i know people who and you and i know people who have who are have companies who are struggling their struggling to get their employees work, those employees back to work, those companies go bust if those companies will go bust if those employees not as productive employees are not as productive as be. if they were

as they would be. if they were in the office. however, amy, i do agree with you in that i do think that flexibility, think that some flexibility, particularly with particularly for women with families kind of families that that kind of flexibility be beneficial . flexibility can be beneficial. and if people do have discipline, then sometimes working from home can make them more but in certain more productive. but in certain contexts, running country contexts, like running a country , you just simply cannot work from and it's important , , you just simply cannot work from and it's important, i from home. and it's important, i think, to be in the heart of the seat of power and to be around those buildings that represent the values and anchor that work in the long history of that service. it gives you a sense of your role as a public servant, rather than just being in the same context that you would be if you were watching netflix of an evening at home with your family. >> i think what you're doing again is you're you're forgetting that if you don't offer flexible working, then you are immediately, not inviting as much talent and talent and happiness and a work life balance is what creates productivity. what about all those mothers have to leave those mothers that have to leave the workforce every single year? because can't? they

because they can't? because they can't. happy does not >> being happy does not necessarily productivity, necessarily create productivity, does a very nice thing does it may be a very nice thing to denmark, in finland, to have in denmark, in finland, but harvard but there's a harvard, harvard study are reduces study says we are reduces productivity miserable actually europe actually male, work king is the best indicator of good mental health. >> and that's proper working. that's what i think for families. >> some element like i said, i think some element of flexibility for families , flexibility for families, particularly if people are not able to afford to live close to where they work and the commute is extremely long, if they've got young children that can. so i'm not i don't think that companies should also should be dictated have to dictated to, that they have to have all of their employees in the office. but think that the office. but i do think that there are some things for which you simply be in the you simply have to be in the office and running a country is one of them. >> i don't think you would have to in the office the whole to be in the office the whole time. maybe for time. i think the maybe not for the of working, but the hybrid model of working, but for most of them, is for most of them, what is definitely this is definitely i think this is you're desperately elitist argument. >> all the people running the security, all the people

cleaning building, they have cleaning the building, they have to work. i saw this to go into work. i saw this dunng to go into work. i saw this during covid the of during covid in the palace of westminster. during covid in the palace of westm the er. during covid in the palace of westm the poorest paid jobs during the poorest paid jobs were the best paid were in every day the best paid people. the top exception of mr speaken people. the top exception of mr speaker, were the ones were people. the top exception of mr sp home. were the ones were people. the top exception of mr sp home. anyway, ones were people. the top exception of mr sp home. anyway, thank were people. the top exception of mr sp home. anyway, thank you were people. the top exception of mr sp home. anyway, thank you to re people. the top exception of mr sp home. anyway, thank you to my at home. anyway, thank you to my panel at home. anyway, thank you to my panel. up next, i'll be panel. coming up next, i'll be speaking my government speaking to my government predecessor new predecessor in light of new revelations billions of revelations of billions of pounds of money that was pounds of your money that was lost covid fraud. oh, and lost to covid fraud. oh, and don't forget, have a poem don't forget, we'll have a poem at end against trigger at the end against trigger warnings.

when we were talking about foreign office couch potatoes, and mick says the woke brigade won't either rewrite or destroy our history. it's just the latest fad. and if large numbers of the staff are working from home anyway, why should they seek to revamp their workplace? a fine point. and steve, a very fine point. and steve, how on earth can serious discussions over running the country be done? long term over zoom? well, you're zoom? well, steve, you're absolutely on. absolutely spot on.

extraordinary times often called for extraordinary measures. the sudden, unprecedented arrival of a contagious virus in 2020 forced a national lockdown and the closure of businesses. in response, the government set up covid support schemes such as furlough aid businesses and furlough to aid businesses and industry . with these measures, industry. with these measures, one an one would expect an extraordinary level of oversight an attempt to regulate and support being allocated and the money being given out, and to check that all claims were legitimate. unfortunately, this did happen . it's now did not happen. it's now revealed that £10 billion had been lost as a result of fraud and error. taxpayers money has carelessly away to carelessly been given away to tricksters or through mismanagement. public sector fraud authority an institution that i actually set up to much foot dragging from the treasury, is responsible for calculating the waste and publish the report that totalled the lost money up to 10.3 billion. lord agnew , the to 10.3 billion. lord agnew, the former anti—fraud minister, resigned in 2022. in protest over the treasury's lacklustre approach to finding and dealing with fraud. despite the story dominating headlines , action

dominating headlines, action should always be taken to regain taxpayers money and ensure exploitation cannot happen again. i'm very pleased to be joined by my predecessor, former anti—fraud minister lord agnew. thank you very much for coming in. the extraordinary thing was, and i was very lucky to inherit from you because you'd done all the groundwork on this , how much the groundwork on this, how much resistance there was in whitehall to working out how much fraud had taken place. >> yeah. i've never got to the bottom of that. is the most bottom of that. it is the most extraordinary conundrum because the of money colossal the sums of money are colossal and it go straight into and it could go straight into tax cuts for people . about £6 tax cuts for people. about £6 billion is a penny off income tax. and this admission just just come out over easter is 10 billion. so it gives you a sense of the scale . if they were more of the scale. if they were more enthusiastic about it and the urgency in tackling it gives you a better chance of getting it back because people have less chance to hide it. >> but , the government was very >> but, the government was very reluctant to put in any anti—fraud measures when the

schemes were being set up. in conversations. i had, if they'd waited 24 or 48 hours, they could have put in a number of protections and this didn't happen. it is it's very odd that they were so careless about fraud. >> well, again, i was a joint treasury cabinet office minister at the time. they set the thing up, as you probably remember, and i pushed hard then for better credit checks, fraud checks. and i was i was ignored. they were desperate to get the money out unreasonably quickly. i mean, as you say, another day wouldn't have made any difference. and for example, the french, who had a far bigger scheme than ours, they lent about ,130 billion. they had proper checks and they have had much less fraud than us. >> and people could basically go to several banks and borrow money, and it was just being handed out to them with no questions asked. >> well, it was even worse than that. there were 1500 companies that. there were 1500 companies that were just bought from agents had never traded agents that had never traded before , and they immediately

before, and they immediately were applied for £50,000 each. i mean, they'd never traded penny. >> and what about the banks themselves? shouldn't they have been making some checks in the sort of routine? know your customer level to stop this happening? the ordinary fca rules that require you to have these protections in place? >> absolutely. but again , it's >> absolutely. but again, it's all driven from the top. and the treasury were reluctant to push that hard enough, in my view. i tried to get them to hold the banks far more to account, but they didn't. >> and you say the treasury, the treasury obviously made up of individuals. you were a minister, ministers are meant to be in charge. where was this coming from? >> well, jacob, you've been a minister too. and you understand what it's like. i mean, thank goodness took over the job goodness you took over the job because you saw through because at least you saw through the of the public the creation of the public sector fraud authority, which actually of actually partially came out of my resignation because there was was enough hoo and indeed was enough hoo ha. and indeed the person running it, mark

cheeseman, is one a very, very skilled civil servant. and he's so good at fraud , count of fraud so good at fraud, count of fraud that we even rent him out to the australian government. but they don't have enough resources. >> and your resignation definitely changed things and meant came in, first meant that when i came in, first of all, i could on your of all, i could draw on your expertise, which was extremely helpful, they didn't want a helpful, but they didn't want a further row about it. but when i was in, i required a lot of support to get the treasury to agree to the public sector fraud authority and for it to publish any information. they were clearly embarrassed about what had happened. >> yes. and they agreed to set up a government committee to oversee and checked oversee it. and i've checked today think that today and i don't think that that committee is sitting any longer, and do you think this level of fraud is still taking place or that with the new protections? and of course, there aren't these schemes at there aren't these schemes at the moment, but in other areas? or do you think with the public sector authority , it is sector fraud authority, it is much better and stronger now? >> well, report that was >> well, in that report that was spred >> well, in that report that was slipped over easter slipped out over the easter holidays, the authority admitted

to fraud, government fraud in the range of 32 to £55 billion a yeah the range of 32 to £55 billion a year. so it's still endemic. and that figure is not dissimilar to the national audit office. so there's a huge win here. if only we could get a bit more serious about it. >> well, it's stunning because the higher and that's 5% of government expenditure. and that's, i mean that's the abolition of some taxes that you can get in scale too. so it really it really matters. do you think the public sector fraud authority has the resources that it needs to do this? because whenever i spoke to them, there's one of the very few areas where the spend to save rule is actually true , that lots rule is actually true, that lots of good ideas come to you as a minister, with people saying, if we spend a pound, we'll save five. and normally if you spend a pound, you've spent a pound with fraud. you can really track it, can't you? you spend a pound and you get back however much and you get back however much and you get back however much and you stop however much. and that's real. >> absolutely. well, i if one it

should be on a statutory footing to give it more teeth. it should be able to hold to account the other 22 anti—fraud agencies that are in government. so there's far too many of them and there's far too many of them and there's no coordination. but also, as you say, if they don't dehven 3 also, as you say, if they don't deliver, 3 £4 to £1 deliver, say, a 3 or £4 to £1 spent every year, then they should be shut down. i mean, it is that simple. and the opportunities there. the opportunities are there. the margins actually much margins would be actually much higher that. higher than that. >> that was one the >> and that was one of the really interesting things about getting set up is getting the authority set up is that people had swindled that if people had swindled £1,000 off their social security, something i think security, not something i think they should do, but nonetheless something that does happen, then there's a very good investigative system to come down that . but if you down after that. but if you swindle £50,000.1o times over, nobody seemed to care. there's a sort of extraordinary lack of proportionality in the interest of the of the structure of the government. >> well, i agree with you that it seems to be one of those sort of bad smells. they wanted to go away rather than get stuck into it. and i mean, there is still

chance to go after these people. i mean, the trail does go cold, but if there was a renewed assault on it, there are still people that they could recover this money from. i mean, a lot of it was opportunistic fraud, like taking the money was meant for the companies, but they'd take it out and go and buy a turbo tub, bath or something or a sports car. and so those sort of people , they could easily of people, they could easily repay it. they they didn't. they were in absolute breach of the of the loan conditions because we thought very little of it was organised crime. >> most of it was just people taking money spending it or, you know, extending their house, but basically the wherewithal basically having the wherewithal to pay it back. >> there was a lot of >> there was quite a lot of opportunistic fraud. exactly. >> lord agnew, thank you >> well, lord agnew, thank you very much. to end on very much. and now to end on some poetry, actually, i was taught by governess many taught by my governess many years was a boy whose years ago. there was a boy whose name his friends were name was jim. his friends were very he ran away very good to him. he ran away when he was able. and on this inauspicious day he slipped his hand ran away. he hadn't hand and ran away. he hadn't gone yard when bang i the open gone a yard when bang! the open jaws a lion and hungrily

jaws a lion sprang and hungrily began to eat, the boy beginning at his feet. now just imagine how it feels when first your toes and then your heels. and then by gradual degrees, your shins and ankles, calves and knees are slowly eaten bit by bit. no wonderjim detested it. no wonder that he shouted hi! the honest keeper heard his cry, but when he bent overjim, the honest keeper heard his cry, but when he bent over jim, the honest keeper's eyes were dim, the lion having reached his head.the the lion having reached his head. the miserable boy was dead . when nurse informed his parents they were more concerned than i can say. his mother, as she dried her eyes, says, well, it gives me no surprise he would not do as he was told. his father , who was more who was father, who was more who was self—controlled, made all the children round attend to james's miserable and always keep a miserable end, and always keep a hold of nurse for fear of finding something worse . now i finding something worse. now i am sorry if this spine tinglingly frightening poem disturbs your slumbers later this evening, but the wet wipes at pan macmillan have given it a trigger warning as harmful.

whereas i think keeping a hold of nerves is just a jolly good thing to do, and is why i hope nanny will have supper for me when i get home, anyway, that's all from me . patrick christys, all from me. patrick christys, what are you having for your supper this evening? i don't know, i mean, i was triggered by a lot of that, jacob i'll be honest. >> so i'm not sure i'm going to be eating for a while, but, look. great show, by the way. i've got an exclusive for you on grooming gang monsters who are set freed. speak to set to be freed. i speak to a very brave victim who's come forward. have problem with forward. we have a problem with young, in this young, fanatical muslims in this country to introduce country who want to introduce things law. look things like sharia law. i look into why that is happening, and there's be had about there's a debate to be had about whether or not we should decriminalise after decriminalise abortion. after a certain the angela certain point, the angela rayner revelations go revelations that will not go away should either come away should she either come clean, resign or be sacked? and do how e—bikes do you know how many e—bikes burst every single burst into flames every single day? jacob i have no idea. >> but no doubt you'll tell people i will. >> i will indeed. excellent. >> i will indeed. excellent. >> as always, a very exciting programme. that's all coming up after the weather. did of

after the weather. i did of course the poem. jim, in course edit the poem. jim, in the interest of time, i'll be back at 8:00. i'm jacob back tomorrow at 8:00. i'm jacob rees—mogg. state rees—mogg. this has been state of you're of the nation, and you're probably what the probably wondering what the weather to like in weather is going to be like in somerset. think it's going to somerset. i think it's going to be good in west be exceptionally good in west harptree. the sun will be out in taunton. getting taunton. they'll be getting the cricket the cricket square ready as the cricket square ready as the cricket season gets underway, and people will looking and people will be looking forward looking at that forward to looking at that wonderful setting of the two churches either side , where churches either side, where endothum used to hit the ball so regularly into the river, bath will be a great place to visit if you are a tourist, and glastonbury, where christ himself was supposed to go with joseph of arimathea, the weather. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , the sponsors of weather solar, the sponsors of weather on gb news. >> good evening. here's your latest gb news weather brought to you by the met office. most of us will see some heavy rain and some strong winds as we go through tonight into tomorrow.

in association with a relatively deep area of low pressure. now, this feature has been named by meteor because it's going meteor france because it's going to impactful weather to bring some impactful weather there. it's not so there. in the uk, it's not so stormy, but nonetheless there'll be strong be some strong winds, particularly coastal particularly around coastal parts, a spell heavy parts, and also a spell of heavy rain feeding across parts of rain feeding in across parts of northern england and across scotland. through the scotland. as we go through the early hours of tuesday because of blustery, wet and cloudy of the blustery, wet and cloudy weather, temperatures for many of aren't going to drop much. of us aren't going to drop much. most places holding up in the mid to high single figures, so a relatively mild start tomorrow morning, a cloudy and morning, but quite a cloudy and a one and a windy start for a wet one and a windy start for most of us. the heaviest rain will be across eastern parts of scotland. cause some scotland. could cause some problems, on the problems, particularly on the roads. heavy rain for roads. also some heavy rain for northern but all of northern england, but all of this does gradually clear away towards the northeast, with something a bit drier following in also a scattering in behind, but also a scattering of . now temperatures of showers. now temperatures will be down several degrees compared today , highs of just compared to today, highs of just 13, perhaps even celsius. 13, perhaps even 14 celsius. towards the south—east. a chilly but bright start many of us but bright start for many of us on wednesday . however, the fine on wednesday. however, the fine

weather wet weather doesn't last. more wet weather doesn't last. more wet weather going to push its way weather is going to push its way in from west, and we're in from the west, and we're going see wind strengthening going to see wind strengthening again again. rain could again and again. that rain could cause problems, cause some problems, particularly southwest particularly over southwest and parts at the parts of scotland. at the moment, looks a moment, thursday looks like a dner moment, thursday looks like a drier day for of us, and drier day for many of us, and that drier theme looks like it will continue into across will continue into friday across the before rain the south before more rain arrives further north. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers, sponsors of weather on

news. >> it's 11:00. you're with gb >> it's11:oo. you're with gb news. i'm polly middlehurst in the gb newsroom. and some breaking news this hour. william bragg has reportedly resigned from his position as the vice chair of the 1922 committee. it follows the tory mp claiming he had been manipulated into sharing other politicians personal numbers as part of a

westminster sixteen scam. he's since apologised, saying he felt mortified, prompting the chancellor, jeremy hunt, to call him courageous for coming forward . scotland yard says it's forward. scotland yard says it's continuing its investigation into the scam after major security concerns were raised by several members of parliament. that news, just into us and also released to us in the last half houn released to us in the last half hour. court documents have revealed that the murder suspect in the fatal stabbing of a woman in the fatal stabbing of a woman in bradford was out on bail after making to assault after making threats to assault and hen after making threats to assault and her, 25 year old habiba and kill her, 25 year old habiba masum is a bangladeshi national who came to britain on a student visa. masoom was conditionally bailed by manchester magistrates court in november , despite court in november, despite prosecutors objecting to his release. he had pleaded not guilty to both assault and threatening to kill. at a heanng threatening to kill. at a hearing on november the 27th last year, he was ordered not to contact miss kusama. contact miss akhtar kusama. akhtar was stabbed as she pushed a a pram while out a baby in a pram while out shopping . the baby unharmed.

shopping. the baby is unharmed. police want to speak to police say they want to speak to any taxi drivers who may have dnven any taxi drivers who may have driven suspect to bradford driven the suspect to bradford moor park, and they're warning the public to approach him, the public not to approach him, but to call 999. but instead to call 999. assistant chief constable damian miller spoke to news teams earlier today. earlier on today. >> there are significant resources conducting cctv and house to house enquiries and we also have local bradford officers carrying out increased patrols in the area, which i hope will be of some reassurance to residents. >> meanwhile, the killers of 23 year old footballer cody fisher have been jailed for life with minimum to serve of 26 and minimum terms to serve of 26 and 25 years. the semi—professional footballer was stabbed and killed during a fight on the dance floor of a birmingham nightclub on boxing day in 2022, a jury at birmingham crown court found 23 year old remi gordon and 22 year old cammy carpenter guilty of his murder. cody fisher's mum tracy said you never expect your child to be murdered .

murdered. >> the sentence passed