used no real blockers being used with no real understanding of what the long time impact ever was. also that gender ideology was overruling pretty much everything else. i'm asking you, will this finally be asking you, will this finally be a watershed moment? will sanity finally be restored , or will finally be restored, or will nothing actually change? also tonight , the echr have ruled tonight, the echr have ruled that governments have a duty to protect us. people from climate change after a group of women in switzerland successfully claimed that doing so was breach that not doing so was a breach of their human rights. do you agree with that or not? also, let me ask you this. do you think being working class is the biggest barrier to career success or not? and last but not least, get this the baby boomers have been described as the luckiest generation in history. are they or . not? yes, indeed. are they or. not? yes, indeed. we've got all of that to come and more over the next hour. massive response to that cast reviewer . we're speaking to reviewer. we're speaking to juue reviewer. we're speaking to julie bindel as well,

imminently. but before we do, let's cross live to polly middlehurst for tonight's latest news headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening to you. well, today , the evening to you. well, today, the former chairman of the post office mediation scheme has described the wrongful prosecution of subpostmasters across the uk by the post office as the greatest scandal he'd ever seen. and he's called for a re—evaluation of the justice system itself. sir anthony hooper told the horizon it inquiry we've had many miscarriages of justice, but nowhere as many as these . he nowhere as many as these. he went on to say. a new approach is needed to ensure there is no repeat of the same. our apologies. that clip doesn't appear to be rolling. we will get that for you in our next hour of news. meanwhile, pro—palestine protesters have sprayed red paint all the

sprayed red paint all over the ministry of defence in london today, youth demand and palestine action jointly carried out it. the move on wednesday , out it. the move on wednesday, demanding both conservative and labour parties commit to imposing a two way arms embargo on israel . the metropolitan on israel. the metropolitan police have confirmed five people were arrested for criminal damage and are in custody , while the defence custody, while the defence secretary, grant shapps, has weighed in, saying the armed forces can't and won't be intimidated, adding those inside the defence headquarters stand up to dictators and terrorists every day. and he goes on to say those targeting us today are the opposite cowardly criminals who i'm glad to see arrests and now children's gender care on the nhs has been based on weak evidence and has been branded scandalous by the shadow health secretary after the publication of a new study today, the cass review says children are being let down by remarkably weak evidence and calls for gender services for young people to match the standards of other nhs care centres . labour's wes

care centres. labour's wes streeting said children have been let down by a lack of research and evidence, saying the report is an important piece of work which has now raised serious concerns. the report said the toxicity of the debate around gender issues has meant health professionals have been too afraid to openly discuss their concerns. the prime minister, rishi sunak, said today children's wellbeing is the government's priority. >> of course we must treat children who are questioning their gender with compassion and sensitivity, but we have to recognise that we need to move with extreme caution in these areas because we just simply don't know the long time impacts of what this all means. and children's wellbeing is uppermost in our mind, and that's why we've acted on the interim findings previously. whether that's the nhs banning the routine use of puberty blockers or indeed the guidance that we gave to schools about how to treat these issues . how to treat these issues. >> now, assaulting a shop worker will be made into a new criminal offence as the government

responds to a surge in retail crime. it's after a new report found that violent and abusive incidents against shop workers rose by 50% in 2022 to 23. the government previously said it didn't think a change in the law was needed, but the shadow home secretary, yvette cooper, has commented on this today and she says the move is long overdue . says the move is long overdue. >> but the conservatives have finally done a u—turn and agreed to labour's plan for a new offence assault against shop offence of assault against shop workers. but we've been calling for stronger action against that violence on shop workers for ten years now, and they have resisted at every stage . even resisted at every stage. even now, it's still a pale imitation of our plans because they're not putting the neighbourhood police back on the streets to actually help take the action and do the work that we need . labour's plan work that we need. labour's plan would be 13,000 more neighbourhood police and pcsos in our town centres , high in our town centres, high streets and neighbourhoods across the country. >> yvette cooper, five members of a bulgarian organised crime

group, have all been convicted today of falsely claiming over £50 million worth in universal credit in the uk's biggest ever benefit fraud case. over four and a half years, the gang made thousands of false claims for universal credit, using either real people or hijacked identities. the investigation identified three benefit factories based in london, where repeated false claims for benefits were supported by forged documents, including fake tenancy agreements, counterfeit payslips, forged letters from landlords, employers and gp's. the defendants will appear for sentencing in may. a father has been jailed for life with a minimum tum to serve of 22 years for murdering his baby son. four week old ollie davis was pronounced dead after being found lifeless in his cot in october 2017, having sustained a number of serious injuries, including broken bones. his 29

year old father, michael davis, was found guilty of murder and two counts of causing grievous bodily harm, and his mother , bodily harm, and his mother, kayleigh driver, was also jailed for seven years for causing or allowing the death of a child. detective constable natasha batstone, of leicestershire police, spoke on behalf of the baby's family outside leicester crown court . crown court. >> this has changed our family forever and we suffer mentally with these evil actions . all we with these evil actions. all we want is justice for ollie as thatis want is justice for ollie as that is the least that he deserves. as a family, we have been dragged through hell for nearly seven years with all the lies and deceit . ollie will be lies and deceit. ollie will be forever in our broken hearts and his memory will forever live on. >> now new home office figures show £43 billion of britain's overseas aid budget has been spent on housing, refugees and asylum seekers in the last year. £8 million was spent every day. in fact, last year on tens of thousands of asylum seekers staying in hotels who were

waiting for alternative accommodation. james cleverly says 150 migrant hotels will now close by may and will be returned to their communities . returned to their communities. the government says they've also reduced the number of asylum seekers from 2000 to 800, staying at raf scampton in lincolnshire after concerns from local residents there . the local residents there. the national audit office, however, says that around £1.2 billion is still expected to be spent on housing migrants on large sites . housing migrants on large sites. and finally, tech giant apple has been accused of anti—semitism after displaying the palestinian flag instead of the palestinian flag instead of the israeli flag. when typing in the israeli flag. when typing in the name of the capital, jerusalem. some users with devices running on the latest software for the iphone have noficed software for the iphone have noticed the prompt in their predictive text function. however, not every user , however, not every user, particularly those with older phones, sees it . that's the news phones, sees it. that's the news for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to

gb news. com slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that, polly . i am michelle dewberry polly. i am michelle dewberry and i am keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel . until 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel. i've got until 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel . i've got the my panel. i've got the conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan and the political commentator jonathan lewis. good evening to both of you. you're very welcome tonight. you know the drill, don't you? it's not just about us three in the studio. it's very much about guys at home very much about you guys at home as what's on mind as well. what's on your mind tonight? got tough tonight? we've got some tough topics for you tonight, and i can you divided opinion on can tell you divided opinion on pretty much all of them from my panel pretty much all of them from my panel. and suspect among you panel. and i suspect among you guys home well. so you guys at home as well. so you know drill. i want to hear know the drill. i want to hear from you tonight. you can get in touch with me and send me your views. you can post your comments. new comments. of course, this new way that we're doing things, we're down with the kids it we're down with the kids when it comes technology here comes to modern technology here on go the website gb on gb news. go to the website gb news your say. that's how news .com/ your say. that's how you can get in touch with us.

i'll be reading some those i'll be reading some of those out. course, you can also get out. of course, you can also get in touch us on twitter or x in touch with us on twitter or x or whatever it wants to call itself days. our handle itself these days. our handle there is gb but of there is at gb news. but of course got to start the course i've got to start the program tonight with what i would call one biggest would call one of the biggest medical time for medical scandals of our time for a very long awaited report has been released today . it's been been released today. it's been called the cass review. it's been conducted by the paediatrician ian hillary cast or to hillary cass. and long story short, it was looking at, how young children who essentially were thinking that they were born in the wrong body . what kind of treatment have they been receiving when it comes to the nhs? now, let me tell you now, the reports, the outcome report is outcome of that report is damning. also have to say, damning. i do also have to say, though it did say some of the things that many people have been saying very long been saying for a very long time. speaks toxicity time. it speaks of the toxicity that that debate that surrounds that whole debate . it speaks of the fact that actually, when you're trying to use puberty blockers to essentially puberty, essentially stop puberty, guess what, term harms what, folks? the long term harms associated doing that associated with doing that were not understood . as i say,

not really understood. as i say, many people have been saying this, shouting this from the rooftops for a very long time, to quite a lot of personal detriment, i have to say. well, one of those people that have been shouting from the rooftops, about this subject joins me now. i can speak to live. the feminist author and journalist juue thank feminist author and journalist julie thank you, julie, julie bindel. thank you, julie, for i've read your for your time. i've read your piece in daily mail today piece in the daily mail today where respond to this report where you respond to this report at length . found very at length. i found it very interesting for anyone that hasn't this , your piece, hasn't seen this, your piece, can you just give what is can you just give me what is your initial reaction to that report? >> well, obviously it's been a very long time coming. we've known about this scandal for more than 20 years. in 2003, i heard about mermaids, and i also heard about mermaids, and i also heard about mermaids, and i also heard about , heard about mermaids, and i also heard about, children being targeted by gender ideology and wrote about it then in a national newspaper. so this was over 20 years ago, and i know that clinicians had been also trying to blow the whistle about practice back then. but my so therefore, my reaction is, yes,

some relief that at last the era of no debate and this stalinist shut down of a differing opinion has come to an end. but also real sadness and anger because many, many children and their families have been harmed and not just children , women as not just children, women as well, because of course, along with this gender ideology that tells children they can change sex. guess what? their children, they're going to be believing you, right? so apart from that, many women have had sex many women have had our sex based rights threatened and we have ended up with men with rapists in women's prisons claiming to be women. we've ended up seeing the dreams and hopes of young sportswomen dashed because men who claim to be women, you know, have taken their place and all other manner of atrocities under the name of trans rights. so it shows that the cas report does show that there's been, excuse me , what's

there's been, excuse me, what's phrased as a toxic debate . but phrased as a toxic debate. but let's never forget the toxicity is coming from one side. and this was never a debate . we were this was never a debate. we were hit over the hammer with transgender ideology, and it became almost impossible to speak out lest you lost your job, your livelihood, your reputation, the career, your family . family. >> when i was looking at your, piece in the mail today, julie, you were saying, actually, you don't think that there is such a thing as a trans child? >> of course there isn't. there's no such thing as being trapped in the wrong body. of course, are that course, there are children that feel desperately unhappy with their bodies, we understand that puberty is a nightmare to go through. all of us that are perhaps post pubescent. remember that time transitioning from childhood to adulthood as very painful and uncomfortable and often uncertain. but we have understood that self—loathing and self—harm in the guise of

anorexia, for example, and other eating disorders, comes along with that , that, you know, with that, that, you know, journey into puberty . and we journey into puberty. and we would treat that as mental disorder, as a problem, a psychological problem. we didn't take a surgeon's scalpel or ingest those girls going through those, terrible illnesses and conditions with harmful hormones . we didn't feed into their fantasy that they were a different species or the opposite sex. so there is no such thing as a trans child in the same way as the idea of transsexuality as it used to be, known as only exists in the minds of extremely conservative, deeply sexist clinicians, sexologist , psychologists, and sexologist, psychologists, and the like who believe that if you don't act as a real man, or a real boy, or a real girl and a real boy, or a real girl and a real woman , you must be trapped

real woman, you must be trapped in the wrong body. let's fix it. that's why we see the highest number of sex change operations being performed in countries like iran , because being gay or like iran, because being gay or lesbian is so unacceptable for being gender non—conforming is so unacceptable that they seek to fix it by surgery and by claiming that this person is actually the opposite sex. it's crazy. >> well, i've noticed i've been looking at the reaction to this, and bizarrely , because often, and bizarrely, because often, you know, these kind of reports, they divide people based on where they are on the political spectrum. but actually, this report have united report seems to have united people across the political spectrum. couldn't help but spectrum. i couldn't help but nofice spectrum. i couldn't help but notice quite a lot of, notice i've seen quite a lot of, reverse ferrets happening, on social today. social media with people today. but do you think but i wonder, do you think anything actually change anything will actually change because of this report or not? >> yes. i mean, the fact that we've all been under some ideological cosh. well, not all, you know, many are driving this or and the liberals have stayed silent for a long, long time, capitulating in the most cowardly manner, watching those

of us desperately trying to expose this harm to children and aduu expose this harm to children and adult women, from the sidelines. but things will change. yes, because it has now been exposed that children were being given harmful drugs, not based on weak evidence, based on no evidence, or based on evidence that they are harmful. it is harmful to give children puberty blockers. cross—sex hormones are irreversible. and so what will change is that the cat is out of the bag. we now understand that there's been something like a 5,000% increase in girls and young women presenting at gender clinics . ik young women presenting at gender clinics. ik from, i think, about 50 a few years previously, because it's a social contagion, because it's a social contagion, because they have been that a one stop shop quick fix , one stop shop quick fix, solution to their myriad of

problems that comes with being a girl and a young woman can be fixed by going down the gender clinic. and on top of that, you will get loads of attention and you will be seen on the block and your school teachers tell you to do that because they don't have to tell their parents. they think loads of teachers are trans activists and they allow girls to go to school. for example, call themselves by a boy's name and demand that they're known by he him pronouns. yeah >> so indeed, it's, very concerning stuff . julie bindel, concerning stuff. julie bindel, thank you very much for your reaction. jonathan of course you, have followed this report too. what's your thoughts on it ? too. what's your thoughts on it? >> well, i mean, just in response to what julie just said. i mean, julie is very lucky that she has not had gender dysphoria. i'm very lucky that i have never had it. in many ways, she doesn't have a monopoly on the experience of

being a woman, just as i didn't have a monopoly of the experience of being a man. and experiencmanyeing a man. and experience of being a man. and experienc many differentan. and there are many different people who different who fit into many different categories, think that categories, and i think that there a moral panic currently there is a moral panic currently going about rights or going on about trans rights or trans people, as there was 30 years ago about gay people. and the same terminology was used then about social contagion, the fear of gay people in 30 years ago was that gay people were secretly paedophiles . and if one secretly paedophiles. and if one gay person happened to be a paedophile, that somehow confirmed the prejudice in much the same way that if a trans woman actually does turn out to be a sex offender, that is somehow, you know, a representation of all trans women , i think that we have to women, i think that we have to be very, very careful and very understanding and not tar people with different brushes . i think with different brushes. i think that there are. >> do you think you can change your biological sex? so do you do you actually agree with this nofion do you actually agree with this notion that a little boy can essentially become a little girl? i think that there are many different ways to be a man,

and many different ways to be a woman, and that sex and gender aren't necessarily the same thing. my question do you thing. my question was, do you think can change your think you can change your biological sex? >> don't think that >> obviously, i don't think that you change your chromosomes, you can change your chromosomes, if that's you're asking me. if that's what you're asking me. but think that trans women but i do think that trans women are and trans men are men. are women and trans men are men. so that's that's answer so that's that's the answer to your question. so that's that's the answer to your quit's on. so that's that's the answer to your quit's not, because when >> no, it's not, because when i'm asking about biological i'm asking you about biological sex. so, for example, you're jonathan, you're a biological male. think male. i'm assuming, do you think that a biological that you can become a biological woman and when i say a biological woman, i'm not referring to just the sense of chromosomes and all the rest of it, i do find quite it, albeit i do find it quite interesting that people kind of it, albeit i do find it quite inteialmostthat people kind of it, albeit i do find it quite inteialmost dismissple kind of it, albeit i do find it quite inteialmost dismiss chromosomes it, albeit i do find it quite intthought dismiss chromosomes it, albeit i do find it quite intthough they're;s chromosomes it, albeit i do find it quite intthough they're this romosomes it, albeit i do find it quite intthough they're this kind somes it, albeit i do find it quite intthough they're this kind ofnes as though they're this kind of like small issue over like irritant, small issue over there. not anyone that's there. they're not anyone that's got child, for example, that's got a child, for example, that's got a child, for example, that's got extra chromosomes or got an extra chromosomes or whatever will recognise, the chromosomes are a huge matter. so i don't want to dismiss that issue of chromosomes. but away from that, this whole notion of biological sex. so for example, you cannot get pregnant. no you cannot have a period in the same way that a lot of women, you

can't get cervical cancer, but a lot of women don't have cervixes. >> a lot of women can't get pregnant, but that's because of a health issue. >> so if a woman is infertile and, you know, i'm very for and, you know, i'm very sad for that, that's, you know, really, really sad. if they want to have children infertile, really sad. if they want to have chilthat's infertile, really sad. if they want to have chilthat's because infertile, really sad. if they want to have chilthat's because of nfertile, really sad. if they want to have chilthat's because of aartile, really sad. if they want to have chilthat's because of a health but that's because of a health issue preventing that. but that's because of a health isslbut preventing that. but that's because of a health isslbut if preventing that. but that's because of a health isslbut if you're enting that. but that's because of a health isslbut if you're using that. but that's because of a health isslbut if you're using that as >> but if you're using that as well, then what's what's the kind of predetermined then kind of the predetermined then that she would have that she, she would have been able hadn't a able to if she hadn't had a health condition much the health condition in much the same that you're saying that same way that you're saying that trans would be trans women would be, would be biological women if they hadn't trans women would be, would be biolivariousromen if they hadn't trans women would be, would be biolivarious thingsif they hadn't trans women would be, would be biolivarious things happeniadn't trans women would be, would be biolivarious things happen to n't had various things happen to them. i mean, so i kind of think that dissolve that the categories dissolve pretty are many pretty quickly. there are many different pretty quickly. there are many diffirent pretty quickly. there are many diffi think that is all quickly. >> i think that is all quickly. >> i think that is all quickly. >> there are many. there are many ways being many different ways of being a many different ways of being a man and many different ways of being and you know, being woman. and as you know, 99.9% people will aligned 99.9% of people will be aligned in their chromosomes and their genden in their chromosomes and their gender. and that's gender. and that's and that's great them. but i'm not. but great for them. but i'm not. but i'm just saying are and i'm just saying there are and this been this has been this has been this has been established for time. established for a long time. michelle, 20 years ago there was almost debate about this. the almost no debate about this. the people just accepted that some

people just accepted that some people them. we said, you have accepted them. we said, you have the to be who you are. it the right to be who you are. it doesn't sort you know, doesn't sort of, you know, people necessarily have to people don't necessarily have to accept or understand it, but accept it or understand it, but there was kind a that there was a kind of a sense that people were entitled to live the lives that they freely chosen. >> e continue chosen. >> continue this debate, >> we will continue this debate, not i'm chomping not least because i'm chomping at hear what lord at the bit to hear what lord moylan has to say all about this as but i know that many of as well. but i know that many of you will have strong opinions to the that's out today to the report that's out today to what said what julie bindel just said also as to what jonathan has as well to what jonathan has just said. get in touch with me. tell your thoughts. tell me your thoughts. we'll come this topic lord come back to this topic and lord moylan a say as well.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry. i'm with you for 7:00 tonight, we've just touched on the opening topic. it's a big one. the cass review. we're going to continue that conversation alongside me and my panel. remain the conservative life peerin remain the conservative life peer in the house of lords,

daniel moylan and the political commentatorjonathan lis, jonathan was just giving his perspective before the break, so just, i haven't heard from you yet, daniel. so i'm keen to bnng yet, daniel. so i'm keen to bring you into this conversation. i've got so much i want to say to you, so much i want to say to you, so much i want to say back to you, jonathan. i'm chomping at the bit, but i'm conscious that we need to hear from you as well. daniel, thoughts all this? >> well, well, jonathan ignores is fundamentally is that this is fundamentally about children, this report and it that, i mean, 20, 30, it is true that, i mean, 20, 30, 40 years ago, there'd be a small number of people, normally adult males, number, who number of people, normally adult males,have number, who number of people, normally adult males,have an number, who number of people, normally adult males,have an operationer, who number of people, normally adult males,have an operation that1o would have an operation that would have an operation that would into would turn them from man into a woman. happened here is the woman. what happened here is the huge numbers teenage girls huge numbers of teenage girls started quite started presenting really quite suddenly , claiming suddenly in big waves, claiming they wanted to be boys. and what happened was that the nhs, on the basis of no evidence at all. i'm picking up on what julie bindel said. start giving them treatment, which inevitably was going to be damaging to them in terms of drugs and in an often irreversible , in the case of irreversible, in the case of surgery, definitely damaging and

irreversible . and they started irreversible. and they started doing that on the basis of no evidence. but the nhs is meant to be a medical service based on medical science , and there was medical science, and there was no evidence behind this at all. that really needs looking into. and related the fact. and that's related to the fact. and that's related to the fact. and want to again pick up and here i want to again pick up a point made by julie that really this whole trans thing is essentially ideological. granted, there are a few granted, that there are a few people, you know, in the past, but it's essentially ideological . biological sex has a scientific and medical basis to it, which is identifiable gender is an ideology that has been created over the last 40 or 50 years. it's not true. it is an ideology. and the idea that we have separately from our sex, that we have a gender, is something that we do not have to believe, because it has no scientific basis whatsoever. >> are you saying that it's an ideological didn't exist before the 1970s? is that your serious contention? there have been trans people throughout human history. people history. there have been people who living , there are people. >> there are people who have had

operations to change the parts of their body, to make them something close from from a man or a boy into a woman. that is true. and that has been part of the culture of some countries going back for centuries. yes. but even before that is a different matter. europe. that is a different. yeah. before the 20th century in europe, even outside. i don't know about inside europe, but certainly outside europe and in india and i and in places like i believe and in places like that. i believe and in places like that . understand that. but that. so i understand that. but having operation that changes having an operation that changes you physically isn't the same as the ideological assertion that separately sex, you separately from your sex, you have this thing called gender, which is a matter of choice, and that you can you can opt into and out of genders. no, i don't think that's an ideological proposition. >> i don't think and that is new because that wasn't the in fact, the use of the word gender itself never used to apply to people at all. >> it was nouns that had gender. if you looked up the oxford

engush if you looked up the oxford english dictionary 50 years ago, nouns had gender. people didn't. the terms has been abused as part of promoting an ideology about what people are really like . and it's not true. like. and it's not true. >> i think it does people a huge disservice to say that how they feel very intimately about their own bodies and their own identity is somehow, it's somehow, it's somehow . i've somehow, it's somehow. i've already said it's somehow a product of a kind of sociology department. >> some it is a product. it isn't. >> it might look there might be some people who believe very strongly in gender ideology, as you put it. i'm not denying that for a moment. and there are people on both sides of this, of this argument who have very, very and are very strong agendas and are using political using children as political footballs. discard footballs. i don't discard discount the role of some trans actors who would also be doing that line with some gender that in line with some gender critical and children critical people. and children should used as should never be used as political that does political footballs. that does not fact that there not change the fact that there are some people, and are some people, adults and children who very, very children who feel very, very strongly that doesn't strongly they do. that doesn't mean the wrong, mean born into the wrong, doesn't they want to live doesn't mean they want to live a different life and have surgery

to correspond with that. >> that doesn't mean there will be that doesn't mean that >> that doesn't mean there will be is that doesn't mean that >> that doesn't mean there will be is suchit doesn't mean that >> that doesn't mean there will be is such adoesn't mean that >> that doesn't mean there will be is such a thing�*t mean that >> that doesn't mean there will be is such a thing asnean that >> that doesn't mean there will be is such a thing as genderat there is such a thing as gender which actually as exists which actually belongs as exists as attribute. but it as a human attribute. but it absolutely it's an absolutely isn't true. it's an ideological proposition without any scientific evidence, and we can it. do not have to can reject it. we do not have to believe it. >> i don't think it actually matters in terms of what we should be talking about. >> what you just mentioned. >> is what you just mentioned. we should talking about we should be talking about using. what this report using. this is what this report is about using children is about, about using children as footballs, as political footballs, about shutting by shutting down debate by deplatforming critical deplatforming gender critical people like julie bindel, for example, who've tried to make the case a different case. that's what this report is . that's what this report is. >> well, it's not well, it's not it's not a report about academic freedom. and julie bindel has multiple platforms as we just juue multiple platforms as we just julie bindel on this program as she says, because she's julie bindel on this program as sifreelancer.ays, because she's a freelancer. >> she's been was squeezed >> she's been she was squeezed off other people off the guardian. other people have jobs where they have lost their jobs where they weren't they weren't freelancers, they were employed they've their employed and they've lost their jobs as a result of their views on this. and that is was part of a attempt down a distinct attempt to close down debate people saying

debate and stop people saying what i've just said. >> but also, jonathan, you've received huge, huge abuse as well. don't think i'm saying, huge abuse for your position, and one of the things that doctor hilary cass was saying in her report, she, she says the whole thing has become toxic . whole thing has become toxic. and, i mean, even many people now are even wary about even getting into this topic. yeah. >> look, michelle, i'll be honest with you. i absolutely hate coming on to tv programmes to talk about this because i know that it is profoundly toxic. it's profoundly polarising. used until polarising. it used to be until even 15 years ago, a relatively uncontroversial topic. most people were centrist on the issue and what we've seen is a radicalisation happening on both sides, where people have been pushed towards to take, well, what you what happened here was, was a was a us was an american culture war, which was, which was exported to what happened in britain is that huge numbers of kids started being processed through this factory. >> that's what happened. i think

that's a very that's a really unfortunate time to use. >> it's not no, no, please do not try and correct my language or shut down debate. >> i'm not shutting down debatably what it you went >> i'm not shutting down deia tably what it you went >> i'm not shutting down deia child what it you went >> i'm not shutting down deia child t01at it you went >> i'm not shutting down deia child to this you went >> i'm not shutting down deia child to this place ou went >> i'm not shutting down deia child to this place and/ent as a child to this place and with few inquiries and no with very few inquiries and no medical science. you were set off on a path that's what actually happened. that's what the report. >> well, there's huge that's >> well, there's a huge that's what knows. years long what everyone knows. years long waiting people have waiting list. people who have been been desperate waiting list. people who have been seen been desperate waiting list. people who have been seen by been desperate waiting list. people who have been seen by genderzn desperate waiting list. people who have been seen by gender clinics erate waiting list. people who have been seen by gender clinics and; to be seen by gender clinics and haven't able to be seen. haven't been able to be seen. and there are children who are suffering. the fundamental point, the fundamental point, michel, and think i think michel, and i think i think people on both sides would agree with is that children with this, is that children should be listened to and supported. that mean supported. that doesn't mean that children should be encouraged to be trans. i can see daniel rolling his eyes and a lot of people would take my words mean that. i'm not words to mean that. i'm not saying saying that when saying that i'm saying that when children they want be children say they want to be known as a different name or a different clothes, or use different clothes, or use different pronouns whatever, different pronouns or whatever, rather down rather than being shut down saying wrong, been saying you're wrong, you've been brainwashed, misguided, brainwashed, you're misguided, you're insincere, you're just

trying authority to trying to challenge authority to be supported. be listened to and supported. and it goes on for long and if it goes on for long enough, then go down further routes. but just to sort of say no to that child is or to send that child for some kind of psychiatric care, i think that's profoundly misguided approach. >> that's i respond to >> that's how i would respond to my if my boy came to me my child if my boy came to me and said, mummy, i think i'm a girl. my response would be, well, what? you're not. well, guess what? you're not. you're a boy. and it's not physically possible. despite what be being told to what you might be being told to believe on social media and all the rest of it whatever. the rest of it or whatever. despite what you might be, have your pumped social your head pumped with on social media, my boy cannot become my girl, however much he might wish it so. or people tell him it can be so. it is a simple biological fact that a boy cannot become a girl. a man cannot become a woman , and vice versa. and if woman, and vice versa. and if people had the balls. excuse me , people had the balls. excuse me, using it in that context, if people had the backbone and the courage to honest about courage to, to be honest about that biological fact, that simple biological fact, a lot of this mental health pain ,

lot of this mental health pain, a lot of these children's anguish would have been avoided because i actually where i do agree with you, jonathan, is in all of this . there are a number all of this. there are a number of children and it gives me goosebumps because i don't like the thought child the thought of any child suffering. there a number of suffering. there are a number of children, very real children, that believe now that this is true, that there can be a girl or there can be a boy, and there can be non—binary. and they are now stuck because they have now stuck now because they have been to believe that these been led to believe that these tablets, treatment is tablets, this treatment that is like the the mecca, it's like the it's the mecca, it's going fix all of your going to fix all of your problems. it's the thing. and now been withdrawn from now that's been withdrawn from now that's been withdrawn from no it's going to no one's saying it's going to cause it. >> i but i would w—i >> i mean, but i would just say to michel, that, you know, to you, michel, that, you know, 40 ago there gay 40 years ago there were gay children who would who would have same conversations have had the same conversations with parents, have with their parents, who'd have said sexual said exactly that sexual preference different preference is a very different thing know, a biology reality. >> i cannot get my head around how you can argue that you can change your biological sex. >> gay children were not given damaging drugs or irreversible surgery. >> well, actually, that's not true because plenty of plenty of

young people were sort of forcibly converted, had electroshock therapy until as recently as sort of 30 years ago in some european countries. so it's simply not true. the who. only delisted homosexuality as a disease in 1994, so it's simply not true to say the gay people weren't medicalized and pathologized. >> i listened to this afternoon, actually to an interview with some parents. it was, a mum and her husband and, i tweeted about actually, it made me cry. it really , really moved me. their, really, really moved me. their, child when at the age of 13 and i made notes because i didn't want to misquote this. so at the age of 13, this , their daughter age of 13, this, their daughter came to them and said that actually they were a boy. they wrote them a letter, they wrote these parents a letter and said that they were a boy. and these parents didn't really take it that whatever. that seriously. whatever. whatever. out then, whatever. anyway turns out then, that had said the that this child had said to the parents, you know, i've attempted, my life attempted, to end my life because feel actually like i'm because i feel actually like i'm the opposite anyway, so the

the opposite sex. anyway, so the parents obviously parents then were obviously frightened. the frightened. they went to the doctor. said, know doctor. they said, we don't know what anyway, long story what to do. anyway, long story short, it went over to the social services. that's what they were saying. and they were saying were saying saying these parents were saying that they received a letter, and the was directly to the letter was sent directly to the letter was sent directly to the child , was saying, the child, that was saying, you're old male born you're a 13 year old male born into a female body. and it was advising the parents not to question the gender identity of this child so that they didn't cause harm. this parents, his mum and the father, they were saying they desperately want these long waiting lists because they want as much time as possible to pass before their child gets onto this treadmill of potentially irreversible interventions. their daughter, by the way, has autism, and they feel that this is one of the reasons that their daughter has been sucked into this path. and as a parent and some of you might have experienced this, perhaps grandparents, parents, if your child telling if your child is telling you that they wholeheartedly believe this , and then being told

this, and then you're being told that you don't indulge it, if this, and then you're being told thatdon'tj don't indulge it, if this, and then you're being told thatdon't affirm indulge it, if this, and then you're being told that don't affirm this, lge it, if this, and then you're being told that don't affirm this, your , if you don't affirm this, your child potentially die. child could potentially die. that's parents that's every single parents worst nightmare. but i believe it's . i believe it's manipulation. i believe that those children have been manipulated. they've seen so much on social media now, these these so—called trans icons, they are like celebrated. you've got brands that use biological men to promote female women's sports bras . sports bras. >> archewell. it's the same look. it's the same argument that we used to hear about that, you know, under section 28 about sort of children being sort of promoted, you know, promoted this of homosexuality . vie. this idea of homosexuality. vie. and they can become gay. you and so they can become gay. you can't no more teach can't you can no more teach a child to be trans. you can teach a child to be gay. i i'm not i'm not trans myself. i don't think that's true. i don't i'm not trans myself and i feel nothing. i feel great sort of sympathy for people do go through for people who do go through this kind distress, because this kind of distress, because it be absolutely awful for it must be absolutely awful for them. think the them. but i just think the answer is not to shut them down and to them they're wrong.

and to tell them they're wrong. and actually, cass says herself that children have been let down. and think that people on down. and i think that people on both sides argument can both sides of the argument can agree with that. the children have let by the nhs have been let down by the nhs and should have access and that they should have access to many more to a great deal. many more counselling options. >> feel really sorry >> i genuinely feel really sorry actually, for all the children that have caught up in that have been caught up in this, the families, because this, all the families, because this, all the families, because this really not easy thing this is really not an easy thing to with. if you're affected to deal with. if you're affected by this, in touch with me by this, get in touch with me because i'd love hear how because i'd love to hear how it's affecting you. your families, and how your best deaung families, and how your best dealing touch dealing with it. get in touch with all the usual ways. with me all the usual ways. coming lots coming up after the break. lots of angry because i asked of you are angry because i asked at the top the, the show, our at the top of the, the show, our baby boomers, the luckiest generation. and i also want to talk about a ruling echr talk about a ruling in the echr as was talking about as well, that was talking about climate control.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry, and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, i've got the conservative library in the

house of lords. daniel moylan and the political commentator john anneliese. lots of you guys have been getting in touch. alex says, please, can just leave says, please, can you just leave trans alone when did our trans people alone when did our sense of gender boil down to our chromosomes ? but you see, you've chromosomes? but you see, you've hit on a key point there. that whole notion of gender. but worry not everyone. i'm not going to reopen the whole thing again. so we'll agree to disagree, someone says, disagree, someone else says, i've name. now, the i've lost your name. now, the majority of people now, michel, are witless saying are scared witless of saying the wrong sometimes can wrong thing, sometimes it can feel that we are being bullied now when it comes to issues . so now when it comes to issues. so we all just stay silent, there you go. lots of lots of people. i'm especially keen to hear from you, though, if you are affected by this, you, your family , get by this, you, your family, get in touch with me and let me know what's happening in your family. all the usual ways, but for now, i'll move on to different matters. a landmark ruling now, has that echr says has ruled that the echr says that have a duty to that governments have a duty to protect people from climate change. this is all about basically 2000, women from

switzerland came together and challenged , the swiss challenged, the swiss government, basically, that their human rights basically were being undermined. this is basically article eight of the echr and they won that ruling, that case. what do you make to this? >> well, the british judge didn't agree with the. >> that's absolutely right with the ruling. >> think the really >> and i think the really worrying thing about this not worrying thing about this is not about climate such. the about climate as such. the really worrying thing is that we've from a position over we've moved from a position over the years where judges the last 30 years where judges knew that there was a line to be drawn between what was properly a political decision to be decided in a democracy , because decided in a democracy, because all the countries that are part of the echr are democracies , of the echr are democracies, there are proper there's a line to be drawn between those things that were decided by in a democracy and those things that should be decided by the courts. and so what we've had, and it's been true of british courts as well, is this creeping, been true of british courts as well, is this creeping , judicial well, is this creeping, judicial ization of what are essentially political decisions, things that judges in the past would have

said that's really for parliament to decide. and parliament to decide. and parliament is responsible to the electorate, and we shouldn't get involved in it. now the judges are involved in everything, and that's what's happened here. fundamentally, policies about how you with climate change how you deal with climate change are matters that should be decided in a democracy through political processes. if you move everything over into the courts, then you're devaluing democracy. what is the point of democracy if all the big decisions end up being taken by unelected judges , being taken by unelected judges, actually, before i bring you in, jonathan, i will just say, actually the uk judge what he said because you're quite right, he didn't vote in favour of it. what he actually said was, i fear that in this judgement, the majority has gone beyond what is legitimate and permissible for this do, and this court to do, and unfortunately doing may unfortunately in doing so may well exactly the well have achieved exactly the opposite was opposite effect to what was intended. what make intended. yeah what do you make of it, jonathan? >> i think there's always a debate to be had about how far courts should be involved in the application of law. i think that

we obviously have to bear in mind that the judiciary is one of the branches of our constitution, just as it is in most other countries, and that judges have always had an important role to play. i was, you know, was surprised by the you know, i was surprised by the ruling, but i think it's, you know, it's important in the sense that our understanding of what the law is and human rights is evolves. obviously, climate change would not have been considered a human rights issue in 1951, when the echr was sort of set up, because climate change didn't exist in those days and it wasn't a scientific of scientifically observable fact. now it is. and we are seeing the results of that as the swiss women were sort of arguing that their lives are being put at risk by heatwaves and the responsibility for stemming the risk of that comes from the swiss government implementing what it has agreed to, what is agreed to under the paris agreement, and if it doesn't live up to that, then it is endangering those women and compromising their human rights, which is not what would have

been understand by human rights so ago. but human so 30 years ago. but human rights can and so rights can evolve. and so i think it's important landmark in the that we're now the sense that we're now considering human rights as a human rights issue , a climate human rights issue, a climate change, rather, is human change, rather, is a human rights and think that rights issue. and i think that also going to seeing also we're going to be seeing a lot more this in the years lot more of this in the years ahead when people we have sort of migration that as of migrant migration that is as a product of climate change, for example, land becomes example, when land becomes uninhabitable that of uninhabitable and that sort of forces people leave where forces people to leave where they . they live. >> and your point about democracy an interesting democracy was an interesting one. the things that one. one of the things that caught lawyer who caught my eye, the lawyer who was actually representing these women, what she had to women, listen to what she had to say about, the democracy and where this ruling fits into it. listen well, in switzerland, it's particularly problematic because they have referendums and one of the defences run by the government was we had a referendum on this, and the people decided they didn't want it . it. >> and therefore that's we've done our best effectively . but done our best effectively. but this is something that comes up all the time in relation to

human rights. it's the conflict between this idea of democracy as just what the people choose and democracy as entailing some fundamental and universal rights which matter irrespective of what the majority party decides. >> that's very interesting, isn't it ? isn't it? >> well, she's basically saying she wants the courts to make decisions because democracy doesn't give the right decision, doesn't give the right decision, doesn't give the answer. doesn't give the right answer. >> no. saying that there's >> no. she's saying that there's something called there's something called there's something what majoritarianism, which is what she's talking about. when, she's talking about. how when, when minority, when a minority when a minority, when a minority is that the is affected in ways that the majority not the majority majority is not the majority should to decide for should not be able to decide for everybody, life is about us women argued family life for him, because the swiss women were swiss women argued that they were more at risk of climate change from heat waves, etc. because older people are more exposed than younger people. that was they were. people. that was what they were. >> to with your >> this is to do with your private family life. private life and family life. >> it's a pretty >> i think it's a pretty important for private life to be able to survive. >> whole has been made >> the whole thing has been made up strong words

though. >> do you agree with that? can >> do you agree with that? i can tell you we're talking about older people, baby boomers. do you they have been the you think they have been the luckiest

>> yes. >> yes. >> hello there. i'm michelle dewberry until seven alongside me. the panel. i can tell you sometimes, right . me. the panel. i can tell you sometimes, right. i wish it could be a fly on the wall dunng could be a fly on the wall during these breaks, i accidentally sparked up a conversation about brexit and whether or not people regret their vote. i wish i hadn't, because that's what you could hear when we came back from the break. very different opinions from tell you from my panel, i can tell you that, lord daniel moylan alongside jonathan alongside me, as is jonathan lace. one going to put lace. this one is going to put the cat among the pigeons as well, let's straight to the well, let's get straight to the chase, we? do you think chase, shall we? do you think the baby boomers are the luckiest generation in history? i'm only laughing because i know that inbox has been on fire that the inbox has been on fire already. i asked this already. when i asked this question, daniel. already. when i asked this quewell, daniel. already. when i asked this quewell, i)aniel. already. when i asked this quewell, i don't i don't know >> well, i don't i don't know about luckiest, but i do think the baby boomers, which includes

myself been a very myself roughly, have been a very lucky generation, but not for the reason that people are going to talk about, i think, but for a different reason. and is a different reason. and that is that managed to live our that we've managed to live our whole lives so far without the country actually being involved in a major war. unlike previous generations whose grandparents, generations, great grandparents, generations, great grandparents, generations who had to go and fight and who had to live with the poverty and constraints that were involved with the war and the prospect of defeat. and i think we've been extremely lucky in that respect. i don't think it's true say that we're it's true to say that we're massively better off if you compare people today, not compare young people today, not with young people ten years ago, but with young people when the baby boomers were growing up in the 1960s and 70s, in material terms, they are very well off. they have many things that we didn't have . and it is true, didn't have. and it is true, however, that they're having a massive problem getting onto the property ladder. and i entirely understand that . and a lot of understand that. and a lot of their income is consumed by rent. that is to do with failure

of policy in terms of building more houses and flats and homes, and that should be addressed. i understand that, but in terms of many other things, they are a great deal better off than we were when we were growing up. and i think you balance the two out, and i don't think we're that, you know, a huge advantage in that. >> jonathan, but we're very lucky to have avoided a war. >> of course. look, obviously i agree with what daniel says about we haven't had to fight in about we haven't had to fight in a i think obviously a war. i think obviously everyone very grateful everyone can be very grateful for course , the for that. but of course, the boomer generation has been exceptionally lucky . if you look exceptionally lucky. if you look at 1960 and the, you know, the average house, i think costs £3,000. and even by the end of the 70s it was £20,000. and look at now what? it's around £300,000. and in london, considerably more than that. and, you know, in 1960, i think it was the average cost of a house was three times one's annual wage, and now it's 8 or 9 times at least . it's

times at least. it's extraordinary to me to think that in the as recently as the 90s, you could live on or you could have quite a modest wage, quite an average job, and you could afford a house with garden and often, you know , if you're a and often, you know, if you're a man, you could, you know, your wife could, could stay at home and look after the children, didn't you didn't need to have two full time earners in that family. and that just seems completely risible to vast numbers people from dare numbers of people from my, dare i our generation, michelle. i say, our generation, michelle. and seems a and that just seems like a complete dream. have complete pipe dream. you have sort professionals on quite sort of professionals on quite high are living high salaries who are living in flat shares, or their flat shares, or with their parents well into their 30s or 40s, with no expectation of ever being able to afford a home. and so you have this idea that young people don't have the opportunities or incentives that were taken granted by people were taken for granted by people who now in their 60s. 70s who are now in their 60s. 70s 80s, who bought these houses for minuscule sums and were then able to hoard housing wealth and to sell those houses and get on the property ladder and have now

accumulated quite sort of quite significant, property portfolios and assets, which they can then pass down to to, their descendants when they die. and that seems it does seem unfair , that seems it does seem unfair, for it's not to say that the older generation is deliberately taken from young people, but when you look at someone of my age for example, and what has happenedin age for example, and what has happened in the last 15 years, the first we had the financial crash and austerity, then obviously obviously obviously brexit and obviously our an indisputable our right. what an indisputable fact brexit is, we don't have fact of brexit is, we don't have the right to say to live in european countries anymore, which people use which a lot of people made use of then. obviously you of before then. obviously you had now you have wage had covid and now you have wage stagnation years and the stagnation for 20 years and the biggest in living standards biggest drop in living standards on record? >> go, who do you >> well, they go, who do you agree can tell you now, agree with? i can tell you now, agree with? i can tell you now, a couple of, well, a couple a couple of, well, not a couple more a couple of baby more than a couple of baby boomers have been touch, yes, boomers have been in touch, yes, we very says rose, we we are very lucky. says rose, we had upbringings, we learnt we are very lucky. says rose, we had manners bringings, we learnt we are very lucky. says rose, we had manners andjings, we learnt we are very lucky. says rose, we had manners and we s, we learnt we are very lucky. says rose, we had manners and we learnt.earnt we are very lucky. says rose, we had manners and we learnt howt we are very lucky. says rose, we had manners and we learnt how to our manners and we learnt how to dress decently. that, she says, is that seems to have is something that seems to have been lost a lot of people, been lost on a lot of people, many people getting in touch, saying, we started work at, glyn says. started work we

says. we started work when we were younger. these, these were 15 or younger. these, these young now don't start work young lot now don't start work until they're their mid 20s until they're in their mid 20s and wonder what's on. and they wonder what's going on. and rich yes, michelle, and rich says, yes, michelle, i'm baby boomer and we're i'm a baby boomer and we're certainly because certainly lucky, mainly because we left to live, we don't have long left to live, which is a great relief in this ridiculous, crazy, dysfunctional country. baekje rich, okay, all views welcome, anyway, look, that's all i've got time for jonathan. thank you, lord moylan. thank you. and thank you to you guys at home. i appreciate your company. don't go anywhere, though, because nigel farage is next. thank nigel farage is up next. thank you. nice >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello there. good evening. well, after a rather overcast day, there's going to be more in the way of dry and bright weather on the way tomorrow. but for tonight there's still some further rain to come. that's as these weather fronts that have lingered across the northwest continue to push into these

northwestern areas . they'll also northwestern areas. they'll also sink bring more sink further south to bring more southern some outbreaks southern areas. some outbreaks of through the night, so it of rain through the night, so it will stay cloudy , with will stay fairly cloudy, with drizzly rain continuing across northern but this northern scotland. but this main rain band actually further rain band actually sinks further south of wales, the south into parts of wales, the midlands and then it sits across the south coast. by tomorrow morning. it's much weaker feature, will bring a lot feature, but it will bring a lot of to these areas of cloud to these areas elsewhere, though, be elsewhere, though, it should be a and clearer start to the a drier and clearer start to the day. but going to be a very day. but it's going to be a very mild start tomorrow. temperatures not dipping much below most below ten degrees for most areas. be quite areas. there will be quite a brisk breeze brisk southwesterly breeze overnight. should overnight. those winds should ease the day and ease through the day and actually across the east and the north it's going to be a dry and bright a much better day bright day, a much better day than it's going to than today, and it's going to feel warm in that feel quite warm in that sunshine. indeed. different feel quite warm in that sunsithoughieed. different feel quite warm in that sunsithough ,ed. different feel quite warm in that sunsithough , acrossiifferent feel quite warm in that sunsithough , across the rent feel quite warm in that sunsithough , across the south story though, across the south and west particular, where and west in particular, where the will linger for much the cloud will linger for much of we could see some of the day, we could see some drizzly outbreaks of rain, particularly coast particularly across the coast and the ground. now and over the high ground. now for the rain returns for friday, the rain returns into north—west and northern into the north—west and northern ireland. western ireland. much of western scotland another fairly scotland will see another fairly wet day, the rain will be wet day, but the rain will be much more limited compared to

today. think eastern today. so i think many eastern areas, of scotland, should areas, even of scotland, should get with a fairly dry day. get away with a fairly dry day. and across the south it looks like should be staying fairly like it should be staying fairly dry temperatures still dry as well. temperatures still on side of things for on the milder side of things for the year into the the time of year into the weekend. it's a similar as weekend. it's a similar story as well . well. >> looks like things are heating up boilers sponsors of up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. the european parliament today passes a new eu migrant pact. but already the poles and hungarians have said we will have nothing to do with it. i promise you, it will not stop the flow of young men that want to cross the english channel. the problem for flooded farmers after rainfall, farmers. after heavy rainfall, we farm in lincolnshire we go to a farm in lincolnshire that has been under water for eight consecutive months . we

eight consecutive months. we ask, what does this mean for the crop in 2024? and last night in arizona, the supreme court passed a ruling that bans abortion within mistake completely. i think this is pretty bad news for donald trump's attempt to get re—elected as president. all of that in a moment. but first, let's get the news with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> well, our top story today is that children's gender care on the nhs has been based on weak evidence and has been branded scandalous by the shadow health secretary after the publication of a new study . the cass review of a new study. the cass review says children are being let down by remarkably weak evidence and calls for gender services for young people to match the standards of other nhs care centres. labour's wes streeting said today children have been let down by a lack of research and evidence, saying the report

is an important piece