your favourite part of the it's your favourite part of the day. with polly day. the news with polly middleton first. >> jacob, thanks very much indeed. >> jacob, thanks very much indeed . well, the top story from indeed. well, the top story from the gp newsroom tonight is that the gp newsroom tonight is that the prime minister has told his israeli counterpart that now is a moment for calm heads, as israel considers its response to iran's missile and drone attack at the weekend . add rishi sunak at the weekend. add rishi sunak spoke by telephone to benjamin netanyahu on a call that was delayed for 24 hours yesterday. israeli media was reporting that mr netanyahu was refusing to take calls from world leaders seeking to influence his country's response. a downing street spokesperson said mr sunak reaffirmed the uk's support for israel's security and stability. meanwhile, the governments rwanda plan has been dead governments rwanda plan has been dealt a series of defeats once again by peers in the house of lords tonight, further delaying passage of the government's flagship policy through parliament. despite mps in the

commons overturning previous changes by the house of lords, peers again pressed demands for revisions to the bill. it aims to remove illegal migrants who crossed the english channel in small boats and send migrants instead on to rwanda for processing to act as a deterrent . and the government's proposal to ban young people from ever being able to legally smoke has cleared its first hurdle in the commons today. mps voted 383 to 67. that's a majority of 316 to push the tobacco and vapes bill through to a second reading. the legislation would make it illegal to sell tobacco products to anyone born after 2009, with the aim of creating a smoke free generation. senior conservatives, including the business secretary kemi badenoch, and former conservative chairman sir jake berry, voted against the bill. >> i believe in freedom and if you are free as a nation, you

it's freedom to make good choices as well as bad choices. and the idea that we are going to create different levels of freedom for our citizens, people talk about this as a ban for a 15 year old. what will happen when they're forget when when they're 40.7 forget when they're chris. they're going they're 40, chris. they're going to in 3 years time. so in to be 18 in 3 years time. so in three time, we're going to three years time, we're going to say citizens, some of you can say to citizens, some of you can smoke have the freedom to smoke and have the freedom to make decision. they make that decision. i hope they don't. the way, but others of don't. by the way, but others of you never have the you will never have the opportunity so . opportunity to do so. >> street has said >> now, downing street has said tonight the attempt by police in brussels to shut down the national conservativism conference is extremely disturbing. officers arrived while nigel farage was addressing the event, giving everyone 15 minutes to leave the venue. it's understood the order came from local brussels mayor emir kir , in a move he said was emir kir, in a move he said was to guarantee public safety. well, belgium's prime minister described the mayor's actions as unacceptable , saying that the unacceptable, saying that the belgian constitution has guaranteed the freedom of speech

and peaceful assembly since 1830. and finally, a portrait of sir winston churchill could fetch up to £800,000 at auction. the houses of parliament had commissioned a british artist to paint a portrait of the wartime prime minister for his 80th birthday in 1954. it's on public display until april, the 21st shown in the room where sir winston was born 150 years ago, the oil on canvas painting will then travel to sotheby's in new york for a period of time, and in june it will go to auction with that guide price. we'll keep you up to date on exactly what it goes for. that's the latest news stories . do sign up latest news stories. do sign up for gb news alerts, scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. common shirts. >> is there any sense of purpose or urgency in downing street?

politically, the guns arranged against us as we trail labour by over 20% in the opinion polls. nearly a quarter of tory voters from 2019 have left for reform in nationally, the world looks as dangerous as it has in decades , facing complex decades, facing complex challenges in the middle east and ukraine. domestically, tax is at record levels, the economy is at record levels, the economy is sluggish and unemployment is rising, immigration is out of control and the small boats continue to come across the channel. net zero is making people cold and poor while our electricity costs two and a half times that of the united states against this background of urgent and pressing problems, what does the government decide to devote efforts to? the to devote its efforts to? the picayune of smoking? this picayune issue of smoking? this lack of sense of proportion is one of the reasons i voted against the government today. however the bill itself is ill thought through and essentially absurd. it seeks to increase the legal age of smoking by one yean legal age of smoking by one year, every year, until no one will be able to smoke. in effect, anyone born after 2008 will never, at least

theoretically, be able to buy cigarettes. picture it now in the year of our lord 2088, a 79 year old man hobbles in on his zimmer frame to try and buy some cigarettes. he's asked identity for the fifth time that week, an outside of an off licence. he lingers instead to see if somebody coming by in his scooter, aged 80, will buy him an illicit pack of marlboro lights. this is britain, a tory government is paving the way for its absurd . it's ridiculous. in its absurd. it's ridiculous. in my own family, my 16 year old son and 15 year old daughter will be able to trade cigarettes to their younger siblings on a modest commission . none of this modest commission. none of this means that smoking isn't bad for you, merely this is a foolish and ill timed bill. the government has failed to tackle illegal drugs, which are available easily across society. even the leader of the opposition would not deny taking them as a student, and this bill

would make it easier for andre teens to buy illegal drugs than to buy cigarettes, which cannot be proportionate . we cannot be proportionate. we cannot police the drugs that are illegal. so instead of concentrating on solving that problem, why on earth are we trying to make a less immediately dangerous addiction illegal too? i had to choose between my children consuming cigarettes or cannabis are unquestionably and unhesitatingly choose cigarettes. they may have long tum health consequences . they do tum health consequences. they do have long term health consequences, but they won't lead to behavioural or mood changes and potentially serious mental . the conservative mental illness. the conservative party has an electoral mountain to climb if we want to overturn the labour lead in the opinion polls, we need to start pursuing conservative policies and show a sense of proportion. how many voters will switch back to the tories because of this complex and impacting ban, aggressively pushed by the people who gave us endless lockdowns as ever. let me know your thoughts mailmogg@gbnews.com. but i'm joined now by alisa rutter, obe

director of fresh and balance. thank you very much for joining me , it seems this is such me, it seems this is such a muddled approach to doing it that it if they were just to say, you can't buy cigarettes until you're 21, that would have some logic to it. but this year by year ban seems very odd , i by year ban seems very odd, i don't think it's muddled at all. |, don't think it's muddled at all. i, i think actually , you know, i, i think actually, you know, congratulations to the majority of the mps this evening who voted on a very clear, evidence based policy, which is ultimately to end the biggest cause of cancer and health inequalities. and i think what struck me this afternoon is this, this concept of free choice, where smoking isn't a free choice, it's an addiction , free choice, it's an addiction, and this is a uniquely lethal product. jacob what other product. jacob what other product out there is guaranteed to sadly kill two and three of its long time users? so i really . hold on, hold on, hold on. >> guaranteed to kill two out of

three so it's not guaranteed to kill. and alcohol can be an addiction. there are all sorts of things that become addictions and we don't try and ban them. people eat junk food that people eat junk food and that becomes an addiction . becomes an addiction. >> absolutely. there are other things, but there is. nothing is uniquely lethal as the cigarette. you imagine in cigarette. can you imagine in 2024, if we're suddenly to introduce this new product , introduce this new product, which is designed to hook people very much on the first, the first time they use it, we're deaung first time they use it, we're dealing with the world as it is. >> that's fantasy land saying if it were to be introduced now, if aspirin were to be introduced now, it would have to go through all sorts of complex tests. it's just things that have been around long time continue around for a long time continue to we tried banning to be allowed. we tried banning banning alcohol in america in the 1920s and 30s. it was a disaster . disaster. >> but how wonderful to think, given the scale of pressure on the nhs, given the fact that we have a known product that causes 16 types of cancer , that we can 16 types of cancer, that we can take this bold, seismic step and

about future generations. so aduu about future generations. so adult smokers now can continue to smoke. this is about saying in a generation's time, why jacob, would we genuinely feel it was quite okay to think 15 year olds now can be destined to die an early grave from completely avoidable smoking related illnesses. i wouldn't encourage people to smoke, but we're completely incapable of enforcing our drugs law. >> though seeing the papers today saying a third of people with serious drugs , aren't with serious drugs, aren't charged the police, the charged by the police, the police it. minor drugs police ignore it. minor drugs are de facto legal in this country. we're doing absolutely nothing about that hopeless failure of public policy, and we're concentrating on cigarettes . cigarettes. >> yes, we're concentrating on cigarettes because 26% of all deaths in the last 50 years have been down to smoking. they've been down to smoking. they've been down to the tobacco companies peddling a highly addictive product with 6000 odd chemicals in it. and the scale of harm on health, on social

care. and really interestingly , care. and really interestingly, the economy. and just previously on, on on the previous programme was about workplace productivity . it was about how sick our workforce is. and this is a very clear driver of that because of smoking. so i think we hold on, hold on then hold on. >> then it should have fallen. and in fact workplace illness has been rising, whereas cigarette smoking has been collapsing over the last 40 or 50 years. and yet we're getting sicker as a nation. so that correlation isn't there. >> there's still a lot of sickness related to smoking related causes, but i think you'll be surprised by actually the level of public support for this . so we the level of public support for this. so we work very the level of public support for this . so we work very closely this. so we work very closely with lots of people in the northeast who smoke, or they've quit, or they've suffered from smoking illness and they smoking related illness and they genuinely regret taking up smoking, really don't smoking, but they really don't want their own children to fall into the same trap. and we know there's cross—party support there's good cross—party support for well. mean, in the for this as well. i mean, in the north—east of our 12 local authorities, every single one supports policy, does

supports this policy, as does importantly , all of our nhs importantly, all of our nhs trusts. so i think we've got very high public and partner support for this. >> so, you know, the nhs loves bossing us about as it did dunng bossing us about as it did during the pandemic. >> and don't think we should >> and i don't think we should leave our for the nhs. but leave our lives for the nhs. but thank very much, elsa. with thank you very much, elsa. with me panel barrister and me now is my panel barrister and former jerry and former tory mp jerry hayes, and the former aide and the former labour aide and pubuc the former labour aide and public stella public affairs consultant stella santykiu . stella, let me come to santykiu. stella, let me come to you first because we get this argument again and again. we must lives the nhs. must live our lives for the nhs. well, nhs is there to look well, the nhs is there to look after us. it's not for us to run our lives for the convenience of hospitals right. hospitals are quite right. >> are other things >> but there are other things that public that we're banning for public health. people like to know what's for what's in their food. for example. like to know example. people like to know what's products that what's in the products that they're so for very good they're using. so for very good reasons, looking at the reasons, we're looking at the government us government to look after us because cannot expect a because you cannot expect a teenager, example, to be teenager, for example, to be able foresee ten years from able to foresee ten years from now, 20 from now, years now, 20 years from now, 30 years from are to be from now, what are going to be the consequences the habits the consequences of the habits that taking up as that they are taking up as children? look, children? now, look, i understand i'm a greek person. we cigarettes. they're we love our cigarettes. they're a glamorous lifestyle choice. it

was at its height during the 90s and noughties when was and the noughties when i was growing was very nice, growing up. it was very nice, but relic of the past and but it's a relic of the past and someone needs to put a stop . someone needs to put a stop. >> but isn't that the important point has become point that smoking has become much less fashionable? that's why collapsed why rates have have collapsed and that actually by introducing this ban, it gives it the allure of the forbidden, the forbidden fruit. and may actually have the opposite effect of that intended i >> -- >> you are making a good point, but i will i will actually call your attention to, people like kate moss, for example , who she kate moss, for example, who she was famous for waltzing around with a champagne on one hand, a cigarette on the other hand, wearing sparkly green gown, wearing a sparkly green gown, green and all of that. and green gown and all of that. and even even here, she has cut even now, even here, she has cut down smoking. she cut down on smoking. she has cut down on smoking. she has cut down alcohol. it's down on alcohol. and it's because it's society where because it's a society where most conscious, however most health conscious, however younger we keep on younger people, we keep on giving them new options for smoking like vapes, which come in all sorts of flavours. so yes, you may say it's going out of out of fashion for all of these reasons , but we are

these reasons, but we are finding other alternatives. while a culture, we are while as a culture, we are recognising that we no longer want to have these things in our life, jerry, the thing that concerns that we do concerns me is that we do absolutely nothing effectively about illegal drugs. absolutely nothing effectively abowell,3gal drugs. absolutely nothing effectively abowell,3galdo ugs. absolutely nothing effectively abowell,3galdo we. absolutely nothing effectively abowell,3galdo we it's very >> well, we do we it's very difficult. i do because i prosecute these cases. i know how difficult it is. difficult. one of the reasons is we don't have enough rehabilitate town centres. and answer is they have enough rehabilitate town certoes. and answer is they have enough rehabilitate town certo prison answer is they have enough rehabilitate town certo prison instead wer is they have enough rehabilitate town certo prison instead andis they have enough rehabilitate town certo prison instead and come( go to prison instead and come out still as drugs. actually banning things. >> if you don't follow through, it ends up not being very effective that i asked somebody today how long it would take to get a cannabis cigarette, and he said he'd get one in half an houn said he'd get one in half an hour, half an hour, half an houn hour, half an hour, half an hour. good heavens. hour, half an hour, half an h0li good heavens. hour, half an hour, half an h0li thoughtzavens. hour, half an hour, half an h0li thoughtzaiwould be much >> i thought it would be much quicker well, there quicker than that. well, there you go. it was. >> probably didn't me to be >> probably didn't want me to be too it rather too shocked, but it rather misses point. misses the point. >> i this is a model piece >> i mean, this is a model piece of legislation. agree with of legislation. i agree with you, we're about you, but we're talking about protecting that's protecting children and that's the thing. you the most important thing. you can't as jake berry said, can't say as as jake berry said, yes, people right to yes, people have the right to make but if make the wrong choices, but if they're they they're adults, they do. >> them when they're >> this stops them when they're

adults, them adults, well, it stops them under the age of 18. >> no, no, it doesn't, it doesn't. >> you can't buy cigarettes. you can't buy cigarettes until you're at all or at all. you're 18. at all or at all. >> if you're if you're 13 now, you will never be allowed to buy cigarettes, even if you live to 100. yeah, there's bonkers , 100. yeah, there's bonkers, isn't it? >> it is bonkers. but we're trying to protect children. you're using the same logic. you're using the same logic. you're using the same. >> only thing i'm going to >> the only thing i'm going to ask there's also going to ask you is there's also going to ban actually , very ban cigars. now, actually, very few die from smoking few people die from smoking cigars . cigars. >> do they not inhale them , >> do they not inhale them, well, no, i don't think it's. look, children are not going to be smoking cigars. children are not smoking . well, no, that not smoking. well, no, that would be stupid. >> that's what the law says . >> that's what the law says. >> that's what the law says. >> well, it's stupid. >> well, it's stupid. >> every year from now on, it will go up. >> cigarettes, cigarettes, cigars , snuff, snuff, snuff. cigars, snuff, snuff, snuff. i mean, well , cigars, snuff, snuff, snuff. i mean, well, so cigars, snuff, snuff, snuff. i mean, well , so there you are. mean, well, so there you are. jerry thought he was in favour of this ridiculous . let me just. of this ridiculous. let me just. >> can i ask you the party political? >> hang on. let me. i've got to

answer your question. >> i want to ask you, as a tory. yeah. really? >> don't smile when you said that. >> really? is this the priority of a tory government, 20 points behind in the polls, do behind in the polls, to do something behind in the polls, to do somepopular with our voters isn't popular with our voters who have wandered off. how does it help? >> doesn't divide the party. >> it doesn't divide the party. the party is hopelessly divided anyway. let give you anyway. but let me just give you anyway. but let me just give you an when i was in the an example. when i was in the commons, was perfectly commons, there was a perfectly sensible legislation, sensible piece of legislation, and children must and that is that children must have seat belts in the back of the seats. the libertarians said, no, no, no, no. the parents know best. they must make the choice. never mind if your child goes hurtling through the windscreen and dies. but parents well, they parents know best. well, they don't . don't. >> but i believe it was a tory government that banned children going up chimneys. thank you very panel coming up, very much. my panel coming up, it seems brussels hasn't forgiven nigel farage for making them foolish . but now them look foolish. but now brussels looks even sillier. plus, unemployment plus, more record unemployment numbers are unveiled in the latest as the latest figures . latest as the latest figures. but i have just the man

well, the mailbox have been smoking this evening . robert smoking this evening. robert says in brighton, i see daily open drug dealing and taking a smoking ban is stupid. why are our real issues not being dealt with instead of this rubbish? steve? how ridiculous the smoking ban is. eventually it will get to the stage where anybody who smokes around anybody who smokes from around the world come to the the world will not come to the uk a holiday and lynn, uk for a holiday and lynn, forget the smoking issue, i think missing most think you're missing the most important the laws important point the rules. laws must for all adults. must be the same for all adults. theidea must be the same for all adults. the idea of bringing in different tiers of adults is extremely worrying. perhaps we have different tiers voting have different tiers of voting and only vote once and you can only vote once you're over 80. that would help the conservatives. i think at the conservatives. i think at the next election. saw some the next election. we saw some rather scenes this rather exciting scenes this afternoon at the natcon conference in brussels, after it was shut down, while our very own nigel farage was speaking on stage. the mayor of saint jose tinued , the neighbourhood of

tinued, the neighbourhood of brussels, emir kir, said he was forced to issue an order banning the conference from taking place to guarantee public safety. one wonders if he'd set himself up as the committee of public safety. then that the safety. he then added that the far is not welcome. the far right is not welcome. the event had already changed venues three times after public pressure previous attempts pressure and previous attempts to close it down. organisers of natcon responded by saying natcon have responded by saying they will launch a legal challenge mayor kier , as his challenge to mayor kier, as his calls to shut down the event lacked legitimacy , and that lacked legitimacy, and that there was no public disturbance and no grounds to shut down the gathering. was revealed this gathering. it was revealed this afternoon the mayor of afternoon that the mayor of brussels, clos, also brussels, philip clos, who also appued brussels, philip clos, who also applied event applied pressure for the event to cancelled , entertained the to be cancelled, entertained the mayor of tehran. earlier last yean mayor of tehran. earlier last year, a man who has been sanctioned by the us for human rights violations . sanctioned by the us for human rights violations. in sanctioned by the us for human rights violations . in other rights violations. in other words, legitimate democratically elected politicians are a no for the eurocrats. but human rights violators from tehran aren't a problem . well, joining me now is problem. well, joining me now is jacob reynolds, head of policy of mcc brussels, who was at the

event. well, how nice to have a namesake on the program, jacob, and very welcome. you were there. so nigel farage was in full flow and inspector clouseau comes in and says, no . comes in and says, no. >> well, yeah, we weren't just there. we've been involved for weeks in organising this event and making it happen. and we have to say, first of all, there's a tremendous , there's a tremendous, tremendous, thanks goes out. i think maybe nigel had mentioned to the organisers of this event, but more importantly, the venue, the in the final case stood firm, stood up to the pressure that came tremendous pressure from political organisations, from political organisations, from the mayor, from all of the authorities of brussels and eventually had the spine and the backbone to allow this discussion. and made a real commitment to democratic debate and free speech. and that's what happened here today. the story is very much that they tried to shut us down and they failed, and that democracy is too strong to lock down. >> well, i'm delighted that they

failed because a number of the people there were elected. i spoke at the natcon conference in london and it seems to me that a european state that is tied into the european convention on human rights, the charter of fundamental rights of the eu, is acting very peculiarly when it tries to stop people who are elected in other eu member states from speaking. and i know we're not a member anymore, but there were elected people from other european countries. >> well, what's clearly happening here is that in the run up to the european elections, the european elite are running scared of the debate because well aware because they're well aware that they're the argument they're losing the argument that they're losing the argument that the deal to the the from the green deal to the farmers protests to net zero, you name it, on a host of issues. the debate is running away from them. the people all across europe are waking up to the fact that the eu is, well, overstepped remit is overstepped its remit is stepping in on the lives of ordinary and the kind ordinary people and of the kind of democratic prerogatives of nafion of democratic prerogatives of nation know nation states, and they know they're losing that argument. and that's ultimately what this

is that have no is about, is that they have no other other than to try other recourse other than to try and down people with and shut down people with dissenting views, because they know that every time put to know that every time it's put to the debate and discussion, the debate and the discussion, when put to the when it was put to the referendum ireland, when it referendum in ireland, when it was referendum or the was put to the referendum or the recent ireland on recent referendums in ireland on on issues or obviously on family issues or obviously brexit, know that lose brexit, they know that they lose the argument because the one thing is the vote. thing that we have is the vote. >> well, that was very interesting seeing those pictures broadcast pictures which being broadcast of the police in and using of the police going in and using this of public safety , this excuse of public safety, this excuse of public safety, this is the playbook of mr this is from the playbook of mr putin, it . putin, isn't it. >> well, what's going on? is this kind of soft authority ism, which has a very hard edge, as we saw with the police, literally coming into the venue. but what they're trying to do, and they use the kind of pretext of there being a safety concern to fulfil what is ultimately a political decision. and this happened to us in the first venue, happened to us in the second venue, and they tried to make happen to the make it happen to us in the third venue, only the third venue, and only for the kind of both people kind of courage of both people involved organising and involved in organising and attending but

attending the event. but most importantly , the venue itself. importantly, the venue itself. like for courage did like only for that courage did this , did this happen. but as this, did this happen. but as you say, it's this pretext of safety that they use as an excuse to close down debate because running scared because they're running scared of the argument. >> well, thank very much, >> well, thank you very much, jacob, for joining >> well, thank you very much, jacob, forjoining me. still with my panel barrister with me is my panel barrister and former mp jerry hayes and former tory mp jerry hayes and former tory mp jerry hayes and the former labour aide and pubuc and the former labour aide and public consultant stella public affairs consultant stella santykiu. this is santykiu. jerry this is extraordinary, isn't it? >> no , because obviously the man >> no, because obviously the man is a bigoted nutcase , i'm is a bigoted nutcase, i'm talking about the mayor of our mayor okay, not that joke, not jacob. not all jokers are mad . jacob. not all jokers are mad. that's just 1 or 2. >> a little harsh, yes. >> a little harsh, yes. >> no. and gosh , you know, but >> no. and gosh, you know, but it's to do with european elites. but of course , nigel farage has but of course, nigel farage has the luck of the devil. i mean, the luck of the devil. i mean, the publicity in this is absolutely wonderful . absolutely wonderful. >> we've got a great clip of nigel, so let's have that. >> yeah. okay >> yeah. okay >> i understand the police are very, keen to close this

very, very keen to close this down. so if they're going to close down, they can close it close it down, they can close it down with me stage, can't down with me on stage, can't they. >> they mm- they. >> they go and arrest >> they didn't go and arrest him. mid—speech but are you worried about an effort to close down free speech? that it does seem to be very heavy handed . seem to be very heavy handed. >> look, is this an illiberal, illiberal measure ? yes it is, is illiberal measure? yes it is, is it not? on a global organisation? and is the brussels mayor under is it under his right to do whatever he wants in his own city? in his own country? yes the absolutely are. i think what we're looking at here is a local community that has come and said, we feel threatened this organisation does not have the same values as us. so we don't want them here. we are worried about them at the same way that suella braverman for months now has been saying , for months now has been saying, oh, we can't have all of these pro—palestine protests in london, we can't have all of these people assembling and making these speeches , and we're making these speeches, and we're very worried about them in the same way the people of brussels

have every right to come and saying , these people don't agree saying, these people don't agree with our ideology. we feel threatened. we don't want them here. >> that fin- fin— >> is that right? because what suella has been saying about the palestinian marches is that people the right to march, palestinian marches is that peo they the right to march, palestinian marches is that peo they don'tie right to march, palestinian marches is that peo they don't have tl to march, palestinian marches is that peo they don't have the march, palestinian marches is that peo they don't have the right:h, palestinian marches is that peo they don't have the right to but they don't have the right to shout anti—semitic slogans. that's that's different. but no one anything of one was suggesting anything of that kind. >> but there were there were people at this conference who are under investigation for extremism. i don't have an extremism. now, i don't have an opinion. i have no idea whether whether they are guilty of that or not. and haven't looked or not. and i haven't looked into but is what the into it. but this is what the people been saying in people have been saying in brussels. they have been saying we threatened. like we feel threatened. we feel like their worldview is different from them from our own. we don't want them here, have been saying. >> that's different from being threatened, you know, threatened, isn't it? you know, the point freedom of the whole point of freedom of speech right to be speech is the right to be offended. essence of offended. that's the essence of it mean, the nut comes it all. i mean, the nut comes the really pretty harmless bunch of eccentrics and, you know, they should be allowed to practice their eccentricity in the whole freedom and the way that they do. well i think

michael gove addressed the one in london. >> i mean, there we are. it's pretty broad stream conservatism in this, in, in that it is, it is. >> liz truss was there. but there we go. this was i wasn't there we go. this was i wasn't there isn't there isn't the point hasn't the point of point hasn't been the point of nut other similar nut con and other similar organisations other organisations and other organisations and other organisations and other pro—western values advocates that we should not allow other nafions that we should not allow other nations to impose their own values on us. >> this has been what they have been saying. we don't want people from muslim countries going against western values. well, guess what, brussels, they've had the values that they've had the values that they've had the values that they've had and they are against natcon as an organisation, certainly not. >> con believes in the nation state and the people who argue for it believe in the nation state. but i don't think anyone at natcon has ever said that you shouldn't be able make the shouldn't be able to make the argument the european union argument for the european union or make the argument for multiculturalism. they have said that they see problems with it, but that's different. but that's very different. >> they see problems >> well, yes, they see problems with it. and you just now just

you said that oh, it goes against the european court of human rights. and if, if human rights are so important that how come case we're come at this case we're not allowing them. but the same allowing them. but at the same time, have been trying to time, we have been trying to the, the same people who the, the, the same people who go on netcom would, would go on to the netcom would, would go against all of these ideas. >> right. i want us >> yeah. that's right. i want us to out the european to pull out of the european convention human rights yeah, convention on human rights yeah, but me that in but it seems to me that it's in force to make us take illegal asylum and not send asylum seekers and not send them to rwanda. but when to rwanda. but then when somebody a view somebody wants to express a view in country that signed in another country that signed up just freedom of up to it, just use freedom of speech , suddenly it doesn't speech, suddenly it doesn't apply. pompous apply. and then some pompous mayor, a political stunt. mayor, it's a political stunt. >> when does come up for >> when does he come up for election ? just out of keir election? just out of keir starmer. do we know it'd be interesting researcher. >> but you found out you'd actually that it's a actually think that it's a political the benefit actually think that it's a po nigel the benefit actually think that it's a po nigel farage? the benefit of nigel farage? >> course it is wonderful. it >> of course it is wonderful. it was natwest. got was cancelled by natwest. got lots oh, this lots of publicity. oh, this will be over papers tomorrow. be all over the papers tomorrow. >> people of brussels >> the good people of brussels have for their mayor. the have voted for their mayor. the mayor decided . and the good mayor has decided. and the good people can choose people of brussels can choose whether to vote him in whether they want to vote him in or there we can

or out. there is nothing we can do it. do about it. >> well, the good people of brussels should remember that belgium thanks belgium only exists thanks to the you the british. anyway thank you very my coming very much to my panel, coming up, unveiled her up, liz truss has unveiled her list of ways to save the world in the next years. but

well, we've been discussing brussels for the first time on state of the nation. and the mayors of brussels. two who want to try and be as famous as hercule poirot. the only belgian anyone's ever heard of. and you've been sending in your mail. moggs george says. i'll say it again, jacob. marxism. marxism. saying free marxism. destroy saying free speech. and paula says, so all we have to say is we feel threatened and they ban or stop it. isn't that what we've been saying about all these illegal migrants for years? and we don't stop that. i mean, it's it's stop that. i mean, it's a it's a very fair point. this is all

this stuff about safe spaces and trigger warnings anybody's this stuff about safe spaces and trigge byarnings anybody's this stuff about safe spaces and trigge by anything. lnybody's this stuff about safe spaces and trigge by anything. it/body's be upset by anything. it has to be banned. thank heavens we're banned. but thank heavens we're no longer ruled by the yoke of brussels and can ignore these pompous mayors. liz truss's new book touches on everything from brexit to the late queen, to the infamous mini—budget of 2022. but i thought the bit that's the most interesting talk about, because it's been the least discussed, is the last chapter of ten years to save the west. the former prime minister gives her six lessons from her short lived but important premiership, which included the need to pursue conservative pursue genuinely conservative policies, dismantling the leftist state and restoring democratic accountability. it's these points that are crucial. her period in office demonstrated that power has been given to non—democratic institutions that seem to be closely attuned to new labour, including the office for budget responsibility in the bank of england. only when these institutions have their power taken back by the democratically elected politicians can we expect to see the real change thatis expect to see the real change that is needed. while my panel

is still with me, jerry hayes and stella santa , kiddo. jerry, and stella santa, kiddo. jerry, let me come to you first on this because when you were in parliament at the height of margaret thatcher, power was genuinely with the executive and with parliament. and there was a view that independent bodies should then be set up. and this starts in the early 1990s and carries on who would be expert , carries on who would be expert, who would tell us what to do. but they lacked democratic accountability. do you think that matters? >> yes, i do think it matters. but this has been going on for years and years and years, and thatcher always used to talk about the quangocracy. but of course we increased them as we always read liz always do. i mean, i've read liz truss's book because i'm reviewing it and i must say, i thought nadine dorries book was pretty bad. but this is just amazing stuff . i mean, she wants amazing stuff. i mean, she wants to abolish the obr, she wants to have more political control over the bank of england, which is a big, big, big ken and eddie show worked extremely well, 92 to 99.

>> well 94 to 97. >> well 94 to 97. >> and that's the only thing i think she's right. and that is there is an orthodoxy and that is there is a groupthink. there's too much groupthink throughout the whole of this country. >> bernanke report on the bank of england. so actually, liz is very much in line with what bernanke is saying. >> i think she is. then she >> i think she is. but then she she to politicise judges . she wants to politicise judges. i know she's got a caveat. she's got a caveat on that. but she wants to make them more accountable, which is a slippery slope , i don't know. well, slope, i don't know. well, that's what says. that's what she says. >> she wants go back to the >> she wants to go back to the lord chancellor, being great lord chancellor, being the great figure chancellor figure that the lord chancellor was when it was people like lord hailsham and before lord hailsham and before her, lord irvine lairg, was a very irvine of lairg, who was a very distinguished chancellor. distinguished lord chancellor. >> was before >> of course he was before lunch, but, you know, she lunch, but, but, you know, she doesn't she doesn't get a history. right? because i knew hailsham incredibly well. if you've been particularly naughty by the whips , you had to by the whips, you had to entertain for lunch a entertain him for lunch on a friday. and didn't find it a friday. and i didn't find it a punishment. i found it very, very interesting. but no very interesting. but he had no power appoint judiciary.

power to appoint the judiciary. she that before she honestly thinks that before 2005, the senior members of the judiciary were appointed by the lord chancellor. technically, yes. in the same way that the prime minister appoints the archbishop of canterbury. in reality, no. >> that wasn't what he >> okay, that wasn't what he said me when i spoke to him. said to me when i spoke to him. but that's a different matter. and this is and i was quite young at the time. stella, young at the time. but, stella, one of the other points she makes is the reassertion of the nafion makes is the reassertion of the nation state. and it seems to me thatis nation state. and it seems to me that is the fundamental building block . she points out that £7.5 block. she points out that £7.5 billion a year goes to international quangos, and then you on the un human you find iran is on the un human rights commission. this all feral nonsense, isn't it? we need to bring things back to the nafion need to bring things back to the nation state. need to bring things back to the nati n state. need to bring things back to the nati mean, . need to bring things back to the nati mean, sure, okay. >> i mean, sure, okay. >> i mean, sure, okay. >> quangos a lot of >> yes. quangos a lot of politicians complain about quangos. of politicians quangos. a lot of politicians complain organisation. and complain about organisation. and it's very, very hard have it's very, very hard to have cooperation nations. but cooperation across nations. but when have international when you have international situations where we need nations to come together and agree with each other on things, then i cannot. i don't think that anyone can argue that we can

just rid institutions just get rid of institutions that taken decades, many, that have taken decades, many, many years and a lot of consensus building to, to happen. we cannot take them for granted . granted. >> but shouldn't politicians be accountable to voters ? and that accountable to voters? and that isn't it. in a way, it's quite convenient for politicians to say, oh, i can't do anything about that. it's all been agreed at this higher level and that politicians must take the one thing i disagree with is that it's not the fault of the quangos, it's the fault of the politicians. for giving the quangos the power because they quite like pushing responsibility off. >> but this is exactly what liz truss is doing in her book. she's not just putting the blame on the external quangos. she's also saying that there is nothing that number 10 can do. whoever is in the number 10 seat will have to deal with the same problems, and then she goes back not to international organisations, but the civil service and the various bureaucracies here in the uk. so it's everyone's fault apart from apart from this has been going on for years. >> remember going into keith

>> i remember going into keith joseph's when i was first joseph's office when i was first elected and was elected in 83, and he was secretary of state, think it secretary of state, i think it was for not education. we changed, secretary changed, but secretary of education and he had his hand, hands over his eyes and says , hands over his eyes and says, jerry, they won't let me do anything but this is nonsense. >> you can do things, but you've got to. i'm saying this is nothing. i know, but you've got to. >> if you're a strong minister, you can. >> i was really struck by this, that when civil servants were telling i couldn't do things, telling me i couldn't do things, it we had passed it was because we had passed something it was because we had passed sometthan it was because the often than it was because the not exclusively, but more often, occasionally it was because of the civil servant didn't like it. >> it was always more difficult in the departments which were sort of client departments, education, sort of client departments, educatofl, sort of client departments, educat of the sort of client departments, educatof the unions in those hands of the unions in those days, energy in the hands of the unions and as the green fanatics. absolutely. right. well, peter, peter walker, one of the things he did, he did not allow circulate round allow things to circulate round whitehall generally, particularly miners particularly during the miners strike. what he used to do is you used to send a biker to the

private office of the minister because by and large, you couldn't trust the private there, the praetorian guard. yes. so he kept under yes. and so he kept it under wraps of what was doing. wraps of what he was doing. >> knew this. >> but we knew this. >> but we knew this. >> but we knew this. >> but say, we say all of >> but we say, we say all of that. and the end, liz truss that. and in the end, liz truss was even in than two was able, even in less than two months, that had the months, that she had the premiership on with an premiership go on with an extremely and unsettling extremely radical and unsettling agenda. even when the facts agenda. and even when the facts were were looking at her in the face, she was able to say, it wasn't my fault, it wasn't me . wasn't my fault, it wasn't me. the bank of england and the treasury is threatening me with market collapse. >> anti—growth alliance. >> anti —growth alliance. >> anti—growth alliance. >> yes. when it was actually the facts, it was what was happening. it wasn't that anyone else, it wasn't that the bank of england the obr could just england and the obr could just go and press a button and the market collapse . market would collapse. >> well, the obr made up some figures that turned out to be completely wrong. the obr is completely wrong. and the obr is useless . useless. >> e put that >> she never put that mini—budget of the came mini—budget in front of the came up with figures a couple of weeks later saying it 70 weeks later saying it was 70 billion something, billion or something, but she never her problem. never cast us her problem. you're generous, would say you're generous, you would say the malevolent, but it the obr isn't malevolent, but it is . but you don't

is incompetent. but you don't ignore expect ignore it. you don't expect consequences. that's what happened. anyway. my favourite part is when the part of the book is when the dear queen died and liz truss, who's so unaware , she just says, who's so unaware, she just says, why did it happen to me ? why did why did it happen to me? why did it happen to me? now the queen died. >> that was a perfectly normal human thing to say. >> any person would have said that. she was just honest enough to put that in her book. >> no she's not. >> no she's not. >> i think that's right. i think liz remarkably honest. she's liz is remarkably honest. she's one honest one of the most honest politicians. anyway, thank you to panel. up next, one to my panel. coming up next, one of greatest economic of britain's greatest economic minds will be joining to minds will be joining me to unpick latest wage inflation unpick the latest wage inflation and figures . plus, and unemployment figures. plus, could more evidence that could it be more evidence that being conservative is good for being a conservative is good for your health? stay tuned for more. >> i'm patrick christie's tonight nine till 11 pm. brussels police attempt to shut down suella braverman and nigel farage. >> no alternative opinion allowed. this is the updated new form of communism. >> has democracy died in europe? katharine birbalsingh ban on

islamic prayer at the michaela school has been ruled as lawful by the high court, for once has common sense prevailed and i expose our idol home office as vietnam soars to the top of the list of small boat migrants. but what are they doing about it ? what are they doing about it? don't miss patrick christys tonight, 9 to 11 pm. be

i >> -- >> well, we've been discussing liz truss's book, and the mail logs have been fizzing in and tom says buzzwords, big statements, but no substance . statements, but no substance. and sarah says. interested to read jerry's review ? well, i read jerry's review? well, i think he gave us a bit of a insight, a bit of a headline. earlier. new figures today have revealed a mixed economic picture on the jobs front. unemployment has risen from 4 to 2, 4.2% from 4% last quarter, and those economically inactive has increased by 150,000,

reaching 9.4 million people. the main factor behind this increase is long time sickness, which is an all time high of about 2.83 million people. on the other hand , wages rose by 2% more than hand, wages rose by 2% more than inflation, which indicates an expanding economy and job vacancies were similarly buoyant. well, with me now to illuminate these figures is patrick minford cbe, professor of applied economics at the cardiff business school. patrick unemployment going up is obviously not good. real wages rising, people therefore having a better standard of living is good. does this make it more difficult for the mpc? the monetary policy committee of the bank of england, whilst it's thinking do next about thinking what to do next about interest rates, or is there a clear pattern developing? >> i think there's a clear pattern developing, first of all, the bank of england allowed inflation to get completely go berserk , and then it introduced berserk, and then it introduced a very draconian in response. finally, rather late in the day,

which has now brought money supply growth and credit growth negative. so actually that people the banks are calling in loans at the moment and, interest rates are painfully high and have caused unemployment to rise and that's a story there. as for wages, wages are reacting to what happened before . so they're happened before. so they're trying to catch up with the inflation that was there before . inflation that was there before. and it's all well behind the curve. >> so this is really important because the bank of england operates on forecasts but also on figures . the figures are on figures. the figures are always lagging aren't they. so inflation lags. what has been happening to the money supply. but unfortunately by an indefinite or indeterminate penod indefinite or indeterminate period about about typically about a year and a half or something like that, it lags behind the money supply. >> and the bank of england doesn't look at the money supply, which is extraordinary .

supply, which is extraordinary. it's like weather forecast and it's like a weather forecast and not out of window or not looking out of the window or looking the charts of looking at all the charts of what's happening in the atlantic. those the atlantic. i mean, those the squeeze of england squeeze that the bank of england has on the economy has exerted on the economy through the money supply and the contraction of credit and the very high interest rates, has caused inflation to come down like a stone. but way below its own forecasts of a year ago. >> and how worried should the bank be by international effects? because the oil price has gone back up to $90 a barrel, is that something that they should be thinking may create an inflation? and with wages rising means they have to tighten the domestic economy? or should they take those sorts of international effects out of their consideration? >> they should take those out of their consideration. because inflation by what inflation is determined by what happens economy, what happens in this economy, what the england does. if you the bank of england does. if you look at switzerland, they didn't have inflation at all have much of an inflation at all while we had 10% or so. so it's up to them. and they, they have done so much that they should

have the confidence in, in the long and variable lags that come out of this process and just know that inflation is coming down. it's come down much faster than their rather naive previous forecasts said. >> and bernanke's done this report on forecasting for them . report on forecasting for them. what opportunity is there for them to learn from that? do you think that will make a real difference bank, or is difference to the bank, or is its slightly? well, its response slightly? well, we're really rather good at this. we've just had a bad patch and don't worry too much. >> the bank seems to ooze complacency. made complacency. having made a complete of its job over complete mess of its job over the last 2 or 3 years, it now oozes complacency. it doesn't seem to have picked up at all on the fact that bernanke said their modelling was was useless, and they hadn't put enough resources into it, and that they hadnt resources into it, and that they hadn't got up to date , things in hadn't got up to date, things in the models that like financial markets and banking and, and

other related things that are now state of the art. so they neglected their art. and what he also said, which was, i thought, very significant . they don't very significant. they don't look at indicators like i was saying earlier, the weather forecasters, they look at what's happening the atlantic, happening in the atlantic, the indicator is what the data is saying because they know it will hit next. the of hit them next. the bank of england doesn't seem look at england doesn't seem to look at the the money the indicators of the money supply, normal supply, which any normal economist in the economist interested in the economy would, would, would look at because they know that that leads in the data into inflation from past relationships, and they're making decisions then based on historic figures, which first of all, sometimes get revised , but also a lagging. revised, but also a lagging. >> so we've got not only high interest rates, but they're still carrying on with quantitative tightening. so they're buying back the bonds that they bought to keep the economy going during covid. >> yes, they this quantitative tightening is going against the

easing of money that they ought to be doing. >> they have tightened money so much it's very dangerous much that it's very dangerous in fact because many balance sheets are in bad shape these bond are in bad shape with these bond pnces are in bad shape with these bond prices having dropped, you know, and also the very high credit costs and, and the property market, something could go bang in that system, owing to this extreme tightness. and they're taking enormous risks with that . taking enormous risks with that. and any sensible bank, in my opinion, would look back at the data and see how much they've squeezed the economy and then have faith, knowing that that in due will bring down due course will bring down inflation. in fact, inflation has come down very fast , faster has come down very fast, faster than they expected because they haven't much attention to haven't paid much attention to those basic data relationships. >> it compare to >> and how does it compare to what countries doing to what other countries doing to the reserve the the federal reserve and the european central bank? >> well, the federal reserve is in a rather different position because the american economy is fizzing, know, whereas ours fizzing, you know, whereas ours has been on a, on a, virtually in a recession and then flat since then, the american economy

has gone on booming with a very strong fiscal policy. >> so can we loosen monetary policy if america doesn't without a risk to a significant fall in the pound? >> certainly we can. i mean, obviously the pound will move around as as relative interest rates move, but that's pretty sort of standard stuff. and it's not going to cause inflation. it's the sort of thing that comes out in the wash pretty quickly . they need to stick to quickly. they need to stick to their last, which is what they have done to the british economy through their monetary policy. and how they need to now ease off inflation is down. off because inflation is down. they should have faith in the things they've done already and be get us back to a stable situation. well, patrick, thank you so much. >> that is such a brilliant explanation of what is going on, if any. patrick, governor of the bank of england. and finally , bank of england. and finally, news suggested going vegan went to your health. and that to prove your health. and that doesn't surprise us particularly a study on the effects of

veganism on the human body found that it increases the chances of high blood pressure compared to meat . before taking part meat eaters. before taking part in the study, volunteers had their tests to assess their blood tests to assess their blood tests to assess their health levels, and the authors found that meat based diets improved blood diets improved their blood pressure. what pressure. the heart wants what the heart wants, which is probably some foie gras. perhaps a friend of mine should take my advice. >> also eaten, vegan sausage rolls . are you? have you eaten vegan? >> i've not, but it's meant to be a monster hit for that bakery chain, isn't it? not bad. they're not bad. well i wouldn't have a vegan sausage roll. >> take it from me being a tory lowers your cholesterol. this is not the record, official not for the record, official medical all from medical advice. that's all from me. next, it's patrick me. up next, it's patrick christys. patrick, have you got a vegan show this evening or is it much foie gras? it very much foie gras? >> no, it's, red blooded. and we actually do some breaking actually do have some breaking news. breaking now , it news. it's breaking now, it appears that angela rayner, according to reports, is under multiple different investigations by the police.

that's just happening right now. i'm also going to be talking about why a muslim prayer ban in schools is a good thing for integration, and there's been a punch but not in our punch up, but not in our parliament. find which parliament. but find out which one which one. one and why i know which one. >> did punch ups in >> and we did have punch ups in our in our parliament, particularly in the that's all the 17th century. that's all coming the weather. coming up after the weather. i'll back tomorrow at 8:00. i'll be back tomorrow at 8:00. i'm jacob rees—mogg. this has been nation, and been state of the nation, and you noticed it rained you may have noticed it rained in london monday morning, in london on monday morning, which draw with which helped somerset draw with surrey . so the rain was welcome surrey. so the rain was welcome at but tomorrow in at the oval. but tomorrow in somerset the weather will be wonderful. absolutely splendid . wonderful. absolutely splendid. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello and welcome back to the latest update from the met office. some showers will continue overnight, but otherwise it turns drier with clear spells and it turns chilly in places . with our air now in places. with our air now coming from the north, that's a

cold direction with isobars opening out as well. lighter winds will mean a greater chance of a frost . there will be of a frost. there will be widespread clear skies across the uk as the showers fade away, although 1 or 2 showers will continue across northern ireland, parts of wales and the southwest, more especially for northeast scotland and north sea coast well. some the coast as well. some of the showers northern scotland showers in northern scotland will be falling as snow because it's going be night. it's going to be a cold night. a touch of frost here and there as we off wednesday. but we start off wednesday. but beautiful many of beautiful blue skies for many of us, this us, particularly through this central swathe of the uk. i think still the north and east of scotland , eastern england of scotland, eastern england seeing a breeze the seeing a brisk breeze from the north and some showers. also some showers elsewhere from the word generally turning word go, but generally turning dner word go, but generally turning drier in many places by the afternoon, albeit rather cloudy. northern ireland, seeing rain arrive and it will feel cold here. seven celsius not much better elsewhere 11 to 13 degrees at their highest in the south. but thursday starts off bright once again , chilly in bright once again, chilly in places, and we keep the brightness across the south and

southeast well into the afternoon, whilst the cloud thickens across the north and northwest, with outbreaks of rain moving south across scotland, northern ireland and northern england , the rain northern england, the rain clears up on friday. the weekend looks very nice indeed . looks very nice indeed. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> it's 11:00. you're with gb >> it's11:00. you're with gb news. the top story tonight . the news. the top story tonight. the times is reporting that the deputy labour leader, angela raynen deputy labour leader, angela rayner, is the subject of a multiple lead police investigation concerning alleged election law offences. the paper also says that police are looking into miss rayner's personal tax affairs. on top of allegations that she supplied false information for the electoral register when she lived between her two former council houses in stockport over

ten years ago. miss rayner has previously said she'll step down if it's found that she's committed any crime, while insisting she's always followed the rules. excuse me , the prime the rules. excuse me, the prime minister has told his israeli counterpart that now is a moment for calm heads, as israel considers its response to iran's missile and drone attack . at the missile and drone attack. at the weekend, rishi sunak spoke to binyamin netanyahu on a call that was delayed for 24 hours. yesterday israeli media reporting that mr netanyahu was indeed refusing to take calls from world leaders seeking to influence his country's decision. a downing street spokesperson said mr sunak reaffirmed the uk's support for israel's security and stability . israel's security and stability. the education secretary said today a court ruling dismissing a muslim student's challenge against her school prayer ban now gives school heads confidence in making the right decisions to prioritise

tolerance between those of different faiths. the student had argued that a no prayer fitual had argued that a no prayer ritual policy at a school in north london was discriminatory, but the headteacher argued schools shouldn't be forced to change their approach because a child or parent decided it was something they didn't like. the judge upheld the school's position, saying there was a rational connection between the school's inclusivity, social cohesion and its prayer policy . cohesion and its prayer policy. it's soon going to be an offence to create a sexually explicit deepfake image without consent, with those convicted facing a criminal record and an unlimited fine. under the new legislation , fine. under the new legislation, people in england and wales could even face jail if the image is shared more widely, creating a deepfake will be an offence irrespective of whether the person who made it intended to share it or not. the new law will be introduced through an amendment to the controversial criminal justice bill, which is

still