i >> -- >> good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo. fair daffodils. we weep to see you haste away so soon. but as the spring continues . there will the spring continues. there will be no wilting in this studio. my political panel will be robust in discussing what freedom means . the house of commons has voted to ban smoking and a prohibition on smacking children is being considered by politicians . what considered by politicians. what should be the limits to the nanny state? local authorities in brussels sprouted authoritarian powers last week

as police there mounted barricades to prevent nigel farage and others from entering a conference of conservative minded politicians. one of the organisers of the event, professor frank furedi, will be joining me to share his experience once we return from the possible ruins of liberty to the possible ruins of liberty to the ancient site of pompeii, where remarkable artworks have been uncovered during a new excavation. the frescoes are amongst the finest yet to be found. archaeologist mario trabucco de la torretta will be here digging into the latest treasures that have been found. stefan kyriazis will, of course, be here to talk about his latest theatrical adventures , which theatrical adventures, which might be summarised as love's labour's lost. and before all of that, your headlines with cameron walker . cameron walker. >> thanks, michael. good morning. it's 11:01. i'm >> thanks, michael. good morning. it's11:o1. i'm cameron walker in the gb newsroom. the metropolitan police commissioner is facing calls to quit over the

force's handling of pro—palestinian protests. former home secretary suella braverman has accused sir mark rowley of having emboldened anti—semites. writing in the sunday telegraph, she says thugs are being allowed to intimidate and harass , to intimidate and harass, claiming they're being waved on by the police. the campaign against anti—semitism is also calling for sir mark to resign or be sacked after its chief executive, gideon falter, was described as openly jewish by an officer . cabinet described as openly jewish by an officer. cabinet minister claire coutinho says the government is addressing the incident. >> the home secretary has made clear that what happened was unacceptable. i understand there's going to be a meeting in there's going to be a meeting in the coming days. i don't know what conversation is going to take place there. i think we should see how that conversation goes. ultimately what's goes. but ultimately what's really that people really important is that people in jewish community feel in the jewish community feel safe. we're on safe. they know that we're on their and that what we want their side and that what we want to is equal policing in this to see is equal policing in this country. to make sure country. and also to make sure that they can go about their normal lives. that's what i want to see. >> a decision by the us to

approve £49 billion in aid for ukraine has been welcomed by the uk, with the foreign secretary describing as a vital step describing it as a vital step forward. after months of wrangling , american politicians wrangling, american politicians ended a deadlock, agreeing to provide a package which will also help replenish weapons and munitions . president zelenskyy munitions. president zelenskyy says the move will keep the war from expanding and will save thousands of lives . the victims thousands of lives. the victims of last weekend's knife attack in sydney have been remembered at a candlelight vigil on bondi beach. judith raanan obe sea bass how sweet the sound . six bass how sweet the sound. six people were killed by joel cauchi in a shopping centre last saturday. the attacker was shot dead by police. australia's prime minister, anthony albanese, told the family and friends of victims that made those we have lost rest in eternal peace, forever in our

hearts . wales is set to change hearts. wales is set to change a controversial law on new speed limits. half a million people signed a petition raising concerns about the 20mph zone, saying some routes should not have been included. the government says the new limits will remain in place around schools, hospitals and built up areas, but has admitted its guidance needed to be corrected in other places. the welsh transport minister is expected to announce the changes on tuesday . a record number of tuesday. a record number of people are running the london marathon. you are about to watch live pictures. here we are in central london where people are lining the routes to support the 50,000 runners taking part this yeah 50,000 runners taking part this year. the events for the general pubucis year. the events for the general public is underway. that got underway just after 10:00 this morning, so crowds are waiting for entrance to come past. for the entrance to come past. gb news political editor christopher hope among them christopher hope is among them and aiming to complete the 26.2 mile route with his children. >> we're running for scope with

the disabled charity. our daughter pollyanna, of course, lost a leg in that bus crash 17 years ago on thursday next week. very sadly , my wife, sarah's very sadly, my wife, sarah's mother, was killed in that crash. so we've been it's something we've been, part of our lives for. so long. but we want to raise money for scope, which which advocates for disabled people. 11, 16 which which advocates for disabled people. 11,16 million people in this country are seen as disabled . so it's a group as disabled. so it's a group which we think is very important. and thanks to everyone for their support. >> good luck to all those marathon runners today. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news by scanning the qr news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or go to gbnews.com alerts. now gbnews.com slash alerts. now it's to michael. >> thank you very much, cameron walker. the house of commons

voted on tuesday by 383 to just 67 to advance the tobacco and vapes bill that would make it illegal for anyone born in 2009 or beyond to buy a tobacco products should we be banning adults from exercising their free will and should we be depriving some adults, younger ones, of a right that is given to others? last week, paediatricians called on the prime minister, rishi sunak, to strengthen the laws on smacking children so as to remove grey areas that give parents a defence for physical punishment. are our individual freedoms at risk of being curtailed by too much interference from a nanny state? after numerous examples of no platforming british of no platforming in british universities , politicians of the universities, politicians of the right were prevented from entering their conference in brussels to consider questions related liberty . i have with related to liberty. i have with me the political editor at the daily express, sam lister, chief political correspondent at the times, allegretti, and times, aubrey allegretti, and historian and author doctor tessa dunlop. welcome to you all. welcome back, sam, you and ihave

all. welcome back, sam, you and i have not been on this show for a while, tell me, are you exercised by the idea of tobacco purchase being banned for adults? >> i feel quite conflicted about this. i think ultimately i come at this from a point of view of we ought to stop infantilizing adults . and actually, once adults. and actually, once you've reached the age of 18, you've reached the age of 18, you are free to serve in the army, to get married, to pay taxes. all these things, but you will no longer be able to choose to smoke . now, obviously, most to smoke. now, obviously, most people think smoking people think that smoking is bad. not a good thing to bad. that's not a good thing to encourage people to but encourage people to smoke, but as adults, the right to as adults, we have the right to choose do things in our lives choose to do things in our lives that are not good for us. for example, too example, drinking far too much wine or, you wine on a friday night or, you know, playing rugby, which know, even playing rugby, which can obviously cause all can actually obviously cause all kinds of injuries, that sitting at home wouldn't do . so we have at home wouldn't do. so we have these rights, and as an adult you should have these rights. and i am deeply concerned about having two classes of adults. those who can choose to live their a less than their lives in a less than healthy and those who healthy way. and those who can't, but said, think

can't, but that said, i think this done with the best of this was done with the best of intentions. think a few intentions. and i think in a few years time we will look back and wonder the fuss was wonder what all the fuss was about, we with about, a bit like we did with the and seven the two thousand and seven smoking which i was, you smoking ban, which i was, you know, it was a bit of a libertarian i was fundamentally opposed within opposed to. but within six months, everyone, everybody just thought a thing thought it was a great thing and everybody those were everybody, even those who were fundamentally to it, fundamentally opposed to it, stopped it . and i stopped caring about it. and i think what will think that's what will happen with think that's what will happen witithe smoking in public places >> the smoking in public places ban been trialled many ban had been trialled in many places i mean, places around the world. i mean, britain some extent britain was to some extent playing catch up. in this case. that not happening at that is not what's happening at all. we're out in the lead. only jacinda in new zealand had jacinda ahern in new zealand had introduced such a law, and it was then repealed by the conservatives they got back conservatives when they got back into actually are into office. so actually we are presently in a position. presently in a unique position. does not disturb you , i does that not disturb you, i think i mean, there's nothing wrong with being the first ones to do something and we can be the trailblazers and obviously for rishi sunak, this an for rishi sunak, this is an issue of isn't it? issue of legacy, isn't it? i mean, clearly be mean, clearly this will be something back on in something he can look back on in years come and say, i did years to come and say, i did this. improved health of this. i improved the health of the i always come the nation, but i always come

back the point of adults back to the point of adults should be free. free to choose , should be free. free to choose, lives live as they lives that they live as they wish. that healthy or wish. whether that is healthy or unhealthy, whether that is, you know, kind of abiding to this moral code we're all supposed to live by now, or whether you want to be a bit more louche in your life, for example. i mean, i think slope, think it's a slippery slope, isn't imposing isn't it? once we start imposing these systems on adults? >> well, i think so, but i'm a de—conflicted libertarian. you're the one who's conflicted. do a de—conflicted do we have a de—conflicted libertarian on the panel? tessa, the of the englishman the liberty of the englishman who can still smack his child. but of course , in scotland, but of course, in scotland, north of the border, you can't. there are all sorts of contradictions when it comes to liberty picking particularly liberty picking up, particularly on smoking issue. i mean, on the smoking issue. i mean, there's a lot of evidence to suggest we run towards risk suggest that we run towards risk when we're young way that when we're young in a way that we don't we're old, and we don't when we're old, and that unique cocktail of that the unique cocktail of drugs in smoking means that we are then hooked for life. lifelong smokers tend to start between the ages of ten and 20, so obviously we want to protect them. my big issue with this

bill wasn't actually about infringement of liberty. it was just it was shoddy. it was done in like most bills in a rush. like most bills passed in an election year. you're it was all about you're right. it was all about rishi legacy. daughter rishi sunaks legacy. my daughter was 2008, so she can was born in 2008, so she can smoke , but those the year before smoke, but those the year before her in ten years, 20 years time are going to have to ask her to buy their cigarettes. i mean, it doesn't idea doesn't make sense. the idea that be the small trader that it will be the small trader in shop who's going in his corner shop who's going to to police this again. to have to police this again. it's passing the buck. >> so you're adding the charge of impracticality? >> i think poorly >> yeah, i think it's a poorly thought through bill. >> not against thinks >> i'm not against sam thinks we're it for we're going to take it for granted few years time. granted in a few years time. i just how can be, just wonder how that can be, because no proposal to because there's no proposal to ban ifs because there's no proposal to ban it's only sale ban smoking. it's only the sale of tobacco yeah. and of tobacco products. yeah. and so i mean, for, for, so as you say, i mean, for, for, you know, in a few years time for a 39 year old to buy tobacco and 38 year old and pass it to a 38 year old will perfectly legal. will be perfectly legal. >> mean, everyone's going to >> i mean, everyone's going to be botox simply prove be having botox simply to prove that , aubrey, a be having botox simply to prove that, aubrey, a rugby player for a man who ages in risk and doesn't want to be banned from taking risks, how do you feel

about the tobacco sale ban, well, i am also a smoker as well, i am also a smoker as well, and so i feel lucky to be able to so young from continuing to be able to buy tobacco throughout the rest of my life , throughout the rest of my life, i will sort of reserve judgement on whether who i might buy it for, but i think i was surprised at the diminished scale of the conservative rebellion here. i mean, obviously you had nearly as many conservative mps abstaining or voting against as voted for the smoking ban. but when you hear the complaints of so many of these conservative mps, they privately say the conservative party doesn't feel conservative anymore, that rishi sunakis conservative anymore, that rishi sunak is engaged in kind of banning things that they think shouldn't be looked at, and they think he's just sort of looking at all wrong sort of issues at all the wrong sort of issues and areas. and if is to and areas. and so if there is to be, you conservative be, you know, a conservative leadership probably leadership contest, probably after only after the next election, only kemi really stands. you kemi badenoch really stands. you know, to be able to stand up to people and say, i voted against this. i stood against the government. >> i mean, it's no secret that i am by background, a

conservative, and i think of all the things that have made me doubt whether i want to vote conservative again time . it conservative again next time. it has and i'm partly has been this, and i'm partly for some of the reasons that tessa gave that, you know, the, the way that it was produced out of a the that it of a hat, the way that it appeared imitate jacinda appeared to imitate jacinda ahern, people on the ahern, of all people on the globe, and the way that it appears to be completely impractical and thoroughly unconservative. but, you were surprised by the lack of conservative reaction? i think i probably was too. and i just wonder then in the new parliament, i have this theory that when the conservatives are struck down at the next election, that many of the members who will be returned will be in seats that face liberal democrats. they'll therefore tend to be more middle of the road . and therefore the of the road. and therefore the conservative party after the election even more election may be even more relaxed about this than is relaxed about this than it is right now. >> i think that's probably true. yes. and i mean, again, if you compare it to 2006 vote compare it to the 2006 vote where you had a greater sort of cabinet, i mean, you could call it a rebellion, but even the

deputy minister deputy prime minister voting against it this instance, we against it in this instance, we had cabinet minister do had a single cabinet minister do so, others abstaining. so it felt hear so many felt jarring to hear so many people complain about the state of the conservative party and yet not stand and vote in the way that you would expect them to . to. >> let's see whether sam is a de—conflicted . on de—conflicted libertarian. on the question of whether the conference in brussels should be closed down by the authorities, what was your reaction to that? >> i mean, ijust thought what was your reaction to that? >> i mean, i just thought it from a very practical point of view. thought it was view. i thought it was absolutely mean, absolutely barmy. i mean, all you do you things like you do when you do things like that generate immense that is generate immense pubuchy that is generate immense publicity the very cause publicity for the very cause that to shut down. that you're trying to shut down. >> is is true. that is >> that is that is true. that is a but what a practical effect. but what about the point of principle, i think incredibly dangerous. think it's incredibly dangerous. i believe freedom of speech i believe in freedom of speech within and, as far as within the law, and, as far as i'm aware, being conservative is not against the law. although some people seem to some people nowadays seem to think and i think it's, think it is, and i think it's, you know, it's a sad reflection, isn't it, on the, the state of the world when people choose to shut down debate rather than trying to win debate. we've seen this recently with the

this a lot recently with the trans debate, for example, extremist that extremist factions in that trying to, make the debate so difficult and so aggressive that people were afraid to put their head above the parapet . and we head above the parapet. and we see this a lot nowadays. it's a really kind of, see this a lot nowadays. it's a really kind of , pathetic way of really kind of, pathetic way of winning debate to shut down winning the debate to shut down the debate because you cannot win, is a pretty poor way to win. tessa. >> was it pathetic? yeah >> was it pathetic? yeah >> but i think what we overlooked was that the crew , overlooked was that the crew, belgium's leader, immediately sort of rectified the situation very promptly. and i'm interested by the rectified. well he he overrode it. yeah. he overrode the little socialist mayor. i mean, we've had a few cunous mayor. i mean, we've had a few curious mayors in london. let's go from boris johnson to ken livingstone. i mean, mayors throw up unusual results. that's one of the reasons why we embrace for their embrace them for their characterful towards characterful attitude towards local think local governance. but i think it's interesting the way in which we're addressing this debate subjects that debate and the subjects that you've you picked you've picked, you picked smacking, brussels , smacking, smoking and brussels, partly because they're in the news this week. i would focus on

a government that has just rescinded giving our young rescinded on giving our young freedom of movement, which is what is offering, and what the eu is offering, and they've bounced back as an they've bounced that back as an idea that's curtailing our young's would young's freedom. i would suggest that public act, which that the public order act, which the government the conservative government passed and in fact, the un's in agreement with me. it severely restricts our right to personal freedom of expression, peaceful expression and protest. the touted legislation by cleverly saying we can't climb on war memorials. most of them are actually designed to sat on. actually designed to be sat on. i know because currently an i know because i'm currently an expert memorials, so the expert in war memorials, so the list on. there are huge list goes on. so there are huge ways which we've curtailed ways in which we've curtailed freedom. there's freedom. it's just there's a tendency on the right to value certain freedoms over others . certain freedoms over others. and i would say more generally that it's being assailed from both the left and the right. our ability to be free. but of course, when i'm free, i then potentially infringe on your freedom, whether that's smoking or or or protesting, i think i think you broaden the point out quite nicely. >> i could argue with various parts of that, but i'd like to move on and maybe get aubrey to

open up the next subject , which open up the next subject, which wasn't really advertised in my preamble, but i continue to be quite amazed by how the military situation in various places abroad the middle east and ukraine in particular taiwan for that matter, doesn't really impact in britain. and we tend to say of the americans who have just gone through this great vote in the house of representatives, that they allow their foreign policy, their commitment to ukraine, to be affected by domestic politics. how very shocking . whereas we, how very shocking. whereas we, of course, are not saying anything very firm, either conservatives or labour say anything very firm about effective defence spending, despite the fact that the security position around the world has changed so substantially, will there ever be a wake up and smell the coffee moment? >> probably . coffee moment? >> probably. but coffee moment? >> probably . but the question >> probably. but the question is, will it be too late? and you know, there seem to be countries which anticipate the kind of growing trends grant shapps has talked about us being now in a pre—war era, but i think there's

it's no coincidence that you hear former defence ministers james and ben wallace hear former defence ministers james them, and ben wallace hear former defence ministers james them, who d ben wallace hear former defence ministers james them, who sayzn wallace hear former defence ministers james them, who say thatallace hear former defence ministers james them, who say that the :e hear former defence ministers james them, who say that the uk among them, who say that the uk is kind of putting its hands overits is kind of putting its hands over its ears and not waking up early enough to the threat of investing to deter war, because people don't understand that war is more expensive when you're in it than to spend money to stop it. and partly this is because it's not a very sort of popular subject in the opinion polls. certainly amongst conservative minded voters, expect minded voters, you would expect conservative politicians to try and make those kind of and kind of make those kind of arguments. it chimes much better. but the conservatives have lost their lead on defence, as they have many other things the public when you i think yougov did a poll recently where if asked them for 18 topics if you asked them for 18 topics or you might spend or things that you might spend money on defence was ranked something like 10th. and that's partly i imagine partly because i imagine politicians aren't talking about it and talking about the it enough and talking about the trade but have trade offs enough, but they have almost chance to do so . almost an ideal chance to do so. ukraine is a really helpful springboard be able to show springboard to be able to show people if we don't take action early this will impact early enough, this will impact you significantly in domestic

you significantly in a domestic way day, to day life. way to your day, to day life. >> we have time for two half minute reactions. sam, do you have a de—conflicted position on military effective spending? >> well, i think you have to invest in the prospect of war to retain peace and freedom , don't retain peace and freedom, don't you? and that is the fundamental. nobody knows this better you, michael , better than you, michael, obviously from your past. but obviously from your past. but obviously americans one obviously the americans at one point spending of point were spending 6% of national on defence. i national income on defence. i mean, that seems absolutely astonishing this day age astonishing in this day and age to think nation spending to think of a nation spending that but obviously that that much. but obviously that was a time of heightened was at a time of heightened russia but at russia is. yeah, but that was at a of tight, a time of a height of tight, a time of heightened tensions. obviously, we heading into that we are heading back into that grant shapps as we're in a pre—war and we are going to pre—war era, and we are going to have this spend have to address this and spend more day we will wake up. tessa. >> well, the great existential crisis of our age, climate change war and every time change and war and every time politicians push them down the road, starmer actually road, keir starmer actually committing to 2.5 defence spending in a way that i think is going to once again outstrip the tories. i always find it really interesting that all recent labour administrations

have defence have spent more on defence than conservative ones have, and yet conservatism its identity conservatism stakes its identity on the pomp, the pageantry, the pride goes. was at the pride that goes. i was at the cenotaph yesterday for the saint george's parade, george's day cadet parade, a bunch of pre 18 year olds in uniform, and yet we don't put our money where mouth is. our money where our mouth is. it's extraordinary . it's extraordinary. >> we can have another discussion one day as to whether we pushing climate we really are pushing climate change the road. think change down the road. i think a lot people are paying high lot of people are paying high bills. necessarily lot of people are paying high bills. with necessarily lot of people are paying high bills. with necii;sarily lot of people are paying high bills. with necii have' lot of people are paying high bills. with necii have to agree with that, but i have to be day. be another day. >> chris. chris darke would agree with me. >> yes, i'm sure you find some people to agree with you. absolutely, thank you to sam lister, and lister, aubrey allegretti and tessa the break, tessa sumner. after the break, i'll return to what happened in brussels last week when the authorities shut down a authorities tried to shut down a conference thinkers conference of thinkers and politicians right. we politicians on the right. are we speaking one the event speaking to one of the event organisers, professor frank ferretti? watching ferretti? you're watching michael portillo on gb news, britain's news channel

and welcome back. brussels authorities set off a political firestorm on tuesday by ordering the shutdown of a gathering of european politicians attending a conservative conference, in a move that sent shudders of anxiety about freedom of speech around the world. the conference had already been blighted as a group of belgium mayors pressured booked venues to pressured to booked venues to renege on hosting the event. keynote speakers at the national conservatism conference, including nigel farage and former home secretary suella braverman, and also hungarian prime minister viktor orban, was giving an address on the second day of the event after police had surrounded the building on the first day to prevent entry. lawyers worked overnight to win an emergency court hearing, which allowed the event to proceed on the second day. should municipal and city authorities be allowed to clamp down on the freedom of speech of their political opponents?

joining me to discuss this is one of the event's organisers, professor frank furedi , the professor frank furedi, the executive director of mcc brussels and emeritus brussels and an emeritus professor of sociology at the university of kent , frank, university of kent, frank, welcome to gb news, pleasure . a welcome to gb news, pleasure. a little detail, but fairly quickly, if you would, as i understand it, you're wrestling with three different authorities and also three different venues. is that correct ? is that correct? >> yes. i think we had a really nice venue , and when i went to nice venue, and when i went to talk to the director, i was told that the mayor has decided that he wouldn't allow us to speak because he didn't like the views of the people who were going to be presented there afterwards , be presented there afterwards, we got a second venue and everything was all right. and just in the evening beforehand, the same thing happened. the local mayor, this was in etterbeek, a part of brussels , etterbeek, a part of brussels, told us that, it wasn't going to happen. we basically went to the courts and the judge decided that the venue director was right and we had to move on. we

finally found a third venue, and the big difference there was that the man who was the director of this venue believed in free speech. so he let us have the venue. but then the then the local mayor there raised the stakes, called in the police and insisted that unless we leave straight away , we leave straight away, everybody will be subject to some kind of criminal charge . some kind of criminal charge. nevertheless, the good thing was we did manage to stay. the venue director indicated that he would back us up in this. but never. but when we left, we were told that we couldn't come back next day because the mayor had issued another order saying that this was a prohibited for this conference to occur. and that's really why i went to the court. to be honest, i was totally depressed night when i went depressed that night when i went to bed, i thought we would lose the but fortunately we out the case, but fortunately we out of you know, the first two judges supported the mayor. but the third judge in what is the supreme court of, of brussels, backed us up and therefore the

conference could go ahead, i should say that the reason why i think this occurred was because the prime minister of belgium, came out in support of the conference and said it was really beyond the pale and democratic society not to allow the freedom of assembly , when the freedom of assembly, when you had all these people telling you had all these people telling you either you couldn't use a venue or that your conference wasn't allowed at all, what was the reason? presumably they didn't say it was because of the views that were being expressed there. or did they? >> well, the second mayor was really explicit . he actually really explicit. he actually boasted, on the news on the news that he is very proud of the fact that he does not allow people with our kind of views, whatever that meant , to be able whatever that meant, to be able to have a platform to speak , the to have a platform to speak, the other the other mayors basically said that they were worried about antifa, coming and creating a demonstration. and there will be a public order issue . but when i, investigated issue. but when i, investigated this and i asked the mayors and

their representatives, well, why don't you do your duty and send the police to protect the venue from the, from the antifa? they basically then kept quiet and said, no, that's not going to happen. and they more or less indicated that they, too, were against the politics of the of the conference. in the end, even the conference. in the end, even the mayor of brussels was honest enough to acknowledge to his, to his people that the reason why he was so , so determined to he was so, so determined to prevent us from having a meeting was because of the political outlook that we had that challenged, the views of the socialist mayor >> and just to remind viewers, i mean, many of the people that you had invited to come and speak were people who had been elected in their own countries. i'm thinking of people like suella braverman. i'm thinking of farage, who has been a of nigel farage, who has been a member of the european parliament, and of course, had an impact on british an enormous impact on british politics, and viktor orban, who has been elected and re—elected, many people may not care for the

prime minister of hungary, but he's certainly elected person i >> -- >> and in addition, we had about 15 to 16 members of the european parliament who were also elected, and they're really living in brussels. and you would imagine that brussels, being the head of the capital of the eu, would allow, elected members of its own parliament to have an opportunity to voice their views. so, i think what was very interesting about this is that the mayors overplayed their hands so that because they overplayed their hands, all pubuc overplayed their hands, all public opinion became entirely on our side. it was so evident, so transparent, that this was really a an attempt to use the police instead of arguments to react to our, our conference. that was a real direct threat . that was a real direct threat. and it is still a direct threat to the freedom of assembly to and free speech. >> yes. i wanted to ask you about what you think are the consequences of all of this. i mean, you've now made the point that have overplayed that they may have overplayed their that at

their hand. does that mean at their hand. does that mean at the of this, that less the end of this, that it's less likely events this likely that events like this will banned ? and or on the will be banned? and or on the other hand, do you think that municipal leaders will spy some sort of precedent here because they can do their posturing, they can do their posturing, they can do their posturing, they can they can display their own political, what's the word? goods for the public to see. so how do you think it leaves? it? is it more likely or less likely that there will be future bans ? that there will be future bans? >> i'm fairly sure that this was a in a sense, a the first of a series of bands that are going to occur. i think this was a trial run and what i really worried about is that if the future of democracy and free speech depends on the ruling of one judge, and you have to remember that three other judges ruled against us, then democracy is in big trouble. and what i'm really worried about as well is that there seems to be a climate of opinion, a polarised sense agent, where the local newspapers are saying it's such

a shame that the mayor's scored an own goal. and when you examine the word own goal, what they really mean by that is that only if there had been more subtle in the way that they behaved, they're not critical of what he's done . what these what he's done. what these mayors done, they're merely mayors have done, they're merely critical manner in which critical of the manner in which they out their action. they carried out their action. and what worries me absolutely is that a strong body of political opinion, amongst established politicians , established politicians, believes that it is okay to cancel conferences and to crush the people's opinions and prevent the freedom of assembly. the democracy actually depends on these these foundational values , professor frank furedi, values, professor frank furedi, thank you very much indeed for speaking us today, coming up, we'll be uncovering some breathtaking new paintings that have been found in the ancient ruins at pompeii. archaeologist mario trabucco de la torretta will be disinterring more details. you're watching michael portillo on gb news. britain's

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and welcome back. and welcome back. a banqueting room adorned with striking frescoes depicting characters inspired by the trojan wars has recently been been unearthed amongst the ruins of pompeii. mythical greek figures such as helen of troy are represented on the high black walls . it's described as black walls. it's described as one of the most exciting discoveries ever made at the southern italian archaeological site. archaeology sites have been studying pompeii for centuries. despite its hold on the popular imagination, only about two thirds of the ancient city has been excavated so far. joining me now to discuss the latest breathtaking discoveries is archaeologist mario trabucco de la torretta. hello, michael. mario welcome. now to me walking around pompeii, i think is one of the great experiences of my

life. i was fortunate to do it first when i was quite a young man, and i've been back again and again, and it is this extraordinary experience of walking through streets which appear be complete. although appear to be complete. although there roofs on the there are no roofs on the buildings you're passing, shops and taverns and houses. you're seeing the ruts that were made by the carts in the marble of the streets. it is to have an insight into the daily life of roman society. it is, is it not? an extraordinary experience? >> it is definitely. and i've made my made it myself personally as well. and it's one of those places, one of those few places on earth where you can actually have the impression of walking inside history, as you were saying, rightly, because those at the end of the day, the, the city was completely destroyed in 79, ad by the eruption of mount vesuvius, the vulcan, or, which

exploded all of a sudden and, basically covered the entire city under four metres of volcanic ashes. this preserved the entire city, in, in in a kind of pristine state, because the only real damage that you can see is all the roofs collapsing. and burying everything underneath. and now we have this amazing experience of finding, as archaeologists , of finding, as archaeologists, for example, finding daily life, the daily life objects that were, obviously in their proper place. they were we find the coins that people were using next to the corpses. we find , next to the corpses. we find, for example, in this particular case that we find the process of renovation of, of a house that has been frozen in time, just as it was, as it was happening with the labourers, basically leaving their tools behind and all the all the, all the building blocks

and the tiles left exactly just as they were . and sometimes as they were. and sometimes pompeii gets described as like a time capsule, which is a horrible , time because at the horrible, time because at the end of the day, pompeii is a is a city that had 600 years before 79 ad, so we actually see an awful lot of the history of pompeii, but obviously , yes, pompeii, but obviously, yes, what we get to see is the state that it was in on that particular fateful day of many say october. some say august 79 ad extraordinary. >> now they have continued to excavate pompeii because, as we said a moment ago, not all of it has yet been studied. and these discoveries that have been made, particularly this banqueting hall, this seems to be something quite stunning. >> yes. >> yes. >> on one word, on, on the on the excavation process, obviously the, in a way, as archaeologists now , we are quite archaeologists now, we are quite careful not to spoil in a way

that deposit that pompeii is right now because, for example, this particular excavation is part of an ongoing effort to maintain the, the ideological and static, state of, the ruins, so it's not a kind of consumer, the deposit for the sake of it. it's actually we are quite careful not to do so. and excavations are up in very , excavations are up in very, very, in a very, very limited way once they happen now, for whatever reason, like in this case, it's a massive effort in terms of technology because we go with all possible technology that we have available at our , that we have available at our, to us right now, there's an archaeology geologists that go there, the palaeobotanical botanists that go there. so we analyse every single bit that is coming up from the ashes right now, in this in this case, obviously, it's, it's part of a, an insula. so a building block

that was excavated in the, in the late 1800s, then it was kind of left there. and so there is part of it that has already been excavated, and it's kind of on course of completion of investigation. and then part of it that is entirely new, entirely virgin. and so we can go and actually expect , a go there and actually expect, a lot of new discoveries, like the ones that you have been seeing and describe what we have found . and describe what we have found. >> talk, talk to us about these frescoes, please. >> so, right, right now, the most astonishing piece, the one that is celebrating that everybody is celebrating right now, is a dining room, basically a dining room that has it's fairly oblong. it has a wide mosaic. and then on three sides you can see, walls that are preserved almost at full height. and they are covered with a lot of intricate mural paintings , which have big, paintings, which have big, rectangular panels with a black background and on this black

background, you have some central scenes as the most important ones are the ones that you were mentioning inspired by the trojan wars cycle , which the trojan wars cycle, which which in a way inform us on the artistic taste and the cultural sensibility of the owner , sensibility of the owner, because it was something that somebody with a, with a fairly good degree of culture could only appreciate , we have, on one only appreciate, we have, on one side, we have apollo and cassandra, the, the, the priestess of apollo. that basically was condemned by, by apollo for not wanting to, go with him and basically, on the other side, we have helen and paris now , you can also be paris now, you can also be certain of the of the identity of these people, because there's even little writing in greek . even little writing in greek. again, another sign of fairly high degree of culture on the on behalf of the owner of these of these paintings. >> so apollo trying to have his

way with cassandra , did not way with cassandra, did not succeed, i think. no, cassandra then became the prophetess of doom. yes she thought that everything was going to hell in a handcart . and it was paris's a handcart. and it was paris's abduction of helen that was the cause of the trojan wars . yes. cause of the trojan wars. yes. so in these frescoes, we're seeing the absolute vital building blocks of the trojan war history. or, i suppose one should say, mythology . yes. and should say, mythology. yes. and this was this was clearly very important to romans. absolutely >> and there is obviously romans are very reliant on greek culture for their own cultural build up . and there is the build up. and there is the famous, say, the greek capta begum , victoriam capital. so the begum, victoriam capital. so the greeks once conquered , conquered greeks once conquered, conquered rome itself. culturally and that's exactly a very, apt manifestation of this phenomenon, the roman elite was a large sized culturally and, in

this case also, the fact that we have, this, this, representation , it's not only speaking about the trojan war. and so this, this kind of doom, etc, but also of a love that is sometimes not, reciprocal or also condemned to doom in its own right. so it's a, astonishing. also astonishing is obviously the state of preservation of these paintings because you see them and once they've taken away all the pumice and the ashes what do you see? it's the freshness of these paintings, which obviously is a huge challenge in terms of conservation , thank you very conservation, thank you very much indeed. thank, thank you, mario, for coming into the studio and sharing the excitement i think many excitement that i think many people feel about this extraordinary discovery, still ahead, it's time to take to the stage for our weekly catch up with stefan kyriazis to hear about his latest escapade

welcome back. another busy week for theatregoers . and stefan for theatregoers. and stefan kyriazis, as always, is one of those, lovely to see you again. thank you, love's labour's lost . thank you, love's labour's lost. oh, yes. >> now, this is the opening of the new season at the royal shakespeare company up in stratford. leadership, new stratford. new leadership, new energy, lots of promotions of 25,000 tickets at £25. and there's been a bit of debate about the opening show because this is quite a light, fun show. we've got a little bit of a clip here to show everybody, just to get a little sense of what it's like

.to . to >> so you can see from that that it's set beachside and poolside. yes. and essentially the plot is that four men think they're going to give up amorous relations , which is fine until relations, which is fine until they meet four women, and then they meet four women, and then they change their minds again . they change their minds again. is that broadly it? >> that's absolutely it. we've been updated to a pacific island and four bros. and and it's four tech bros. and then some glamorous women that come in on a yacht. and yes, it's a super fun. it's almost like a little bit of the trial run for much ado about nothing . run for much ado about nothing. so lots of costumes, so there's lots of costumes, disguises . at one stage, they're disguises. at one stage, they're all dressed as medieval knights singing boys song. singing a backstreet boys song. luke that you saw there luke thompson that you saw there as is a big star at the as baron is a big star at the moment in bridgerton. i will never forget him up a palm tree.

it's joyous, it's fun. it's still it's a light comedy, and i think there's a little bit of a message here. that theatre is fun. come in. enjoy. it doesn't always have to be. they've got some heavier works coming up. this whole season has got an array of things, including ballet as well . there's the ballet as well. there's the theatre outside for children where watch abridged theatre outside for children where but watch abridged theatre outside for children where but thisatch abridged theatre outside for children where but this productioned theatre outside for children where but this production is versions, but this production is just doesn't go too just very light. doesn't go too much into the psychology of it. the women have a lot of agency. the women have a lot of agency. the men are basically buffoons, which shakespeare often quite liked and should be remembered. but thing was you just but the main thing was you just thoroughly enjoy yourself. it's a beautiful theatre. and this, this gives me hope because there's a lot around that's not so enjoyable. but this one, everybody is excellent in it. it clips along, it gets a little bit, panto at times. one of the secondary characters is a bit fawlty towers . fawlty towers. >> what about the verse? is the shakespeare well delivered? >> it's beautifully done. and luke thompson is really impressing. and there was one one line, light si king light

doth light of light beguile, which is one of his lines. and it struck me. and it's it really struck me. and it's just in the middle, always in the of all of the middle of all of shakespeare's silliness. there's a beautiful , all so a line that is beautiful, all so exquisitely constructed, but also you have to think about it also you have to think about it a bit and all about, you a little bit and all about, you know, don't look too hard at one thing and you'll miss everything else. >> but in stratford upon avon. >> this is up in stratford in the main royal shakespeare theatre itself, that's theatre itself, and that's on until the but the joy until may the 18th. but the joy there there's lots of there is, there's lots of different so if you different theatres, so if you spent few there, you can spent a few days there, you can catch or 3 different shows at catch 2 or 3 different shows at different thoroughly, different times. so thoroughly, thoroughly and thoroughly recommended fun and i'm really excited to see what the rest of the season brings from these guys. >> and then what's your number two? >> moving on to something that is not based on is absolutely not fun. based on a 1928 execution of a murderess that hit worldwide news, the picture of her in the electric chair in the united states, in new york. absolutely but this one again, we've got and you can you're going to see from the clip very, very different .

clip very, very different. >> mrs. george h. jones is let me hold your pretty little hands, george h. >> jones. fat hands, flabby hands. don't touch me, please. >> fat hands are never weary. don't touch me, please. no, can't. must >> subway air pressing bodies pressing bodies trembling . air. pressing bodies trembling. air. stop air. late job. no job. fired. late alarm clock. >> alarm. alarm. clock. hurry. tom moore . nag nag nag. no rest, tom moore. nag nag nag. no rest, no rest. burn. gotta earn . no rest. burn. gotta earn. >> mary. earn. no. yes. earn. all girls. >> most girls . ma pa ma. >> most girls. ma pa ma. >> most girls. ma pa ma. >> all women. most women i can't. most maybe must. >> somebody. something must. hammer. can i ma? tell me ma something. somebody getting into the mind of the murderess . the mind of the murderess. >> yes, but. but even back in 1928, there was . there was a 1928, there was. there was a pushback against the show. when it was announced. it was. it was regarded as too salacious, distasteful. and then when the reviews out, everybody. the reviews came out, everybody. the playwright is sophie treadwell,

who was a journalist and then became a playwright, and she had been the of the murder been part of the of the murder case, but everybody then agreed that it handles it in a very delicate, respectful way. it's not about it's not about the murder. this is about a woman that, as we can see, she's having a bit of a breakdown. now, today we we're all about mental health. but this was very much a very normal, regular, low, low sort of income. woman who felt completely trapped, could, didn't enjoy her job hectored by her mother and then almost weaned out of the herd by almost weaned out of the herd by a very sleazy boss who loved her delicate hands and she couldn't bear to be touched by him. but she married him because she felt she married him because she felt she had no options. but this is all part, it's the expressionism movement which came across from germany in the 1920s. so as you can see, it's a hard watch. it's all about exaggerate theatrical forms, about distorted movement and all of this, which is even

more the pictures, the stage is like this two yellow walls, and they pretty much form a corner. so the whole time everything feels very hemmed in. she's trapped. you have all these beautiful projections and shadows and lights. forget big screens at the moment, the lighting, the shadows, the repetitive sounds. it's almost like dancing places. extraordinary lead performance. i can't say i enjoyed it, but i am so glad i saw it and. and you do buy it and you do recommend it. i absolutely recommend it. it's just something you won't forget it. it's absolutely thrilling. this on the thrilling. this one's on at the old vic until june the 1st. okay thrilling stuff. >> so for a thrilling evening that you probably enjoy , that you probably won't enjoy, that's a harsh, but it's a that's a bit harsh, but it's a different of thing. it's different sort of thing. it's a different sort of thing. it's a different sort of enjoyment, but a suffering sort of enjoyment. different sort of enjoyment, but a s|thoroughly: of enjoyment. different sort of enjoyment, but a s|thoroughly glad njoyment. different sort of enjoyment, but a s|thoroughly glad njsawant. different sort of enjoyment, but a s|thoroughly glad njsawant i'm >> thoroughly glad i saw it. i'm really and finally really glad i saw. and finally and finally , with a sinking and finally, with a sinking feeling, going feeling, we're going to take a little, little journey onto the river thames, and we've got a little clip of that one as well .

little clip of that one as well. >> this is the story of a river, the story of death and resurrection . it's a story about resurrection. it's a story about london, about money, about . london, about money, about. love. charles dickens and the river thames. how can you go wrong, our mutual friend. songs by pj harvey, who's a highly respected indie artist . and the respected indie artist. and the direction by ben power, who also did the lyrics he adapted the lehman trilogy hugely promising. i an instinct on these i have an instinct on these things. sometimes i walked in, i saw plastic sheeting at the back of the stage, some chairs scattered around and a drum kit and a piano, and my spirits did start sinking . and early on start sinking. and early on we're on the river, gaffer hexam is pulling bodies out of the river to loot them and then sell them on, but they come on with a long plank of wood, and him and his daughter and another person, and they're of doing this and they're kind of doing this

on and this is over on the river. and this is over three hours. and that was about ten at minutes ten minutes in. at ten minutes in, was this is not in, i was like, this is not going work me. going to work for me. >> what about music? >> what about the music? >> what about the music? >> is painful . dirges. >> the music is painful. dirges. i've seen one good response i've only seen one good response to the wasn't to it. the music wasn't necessary . it didn't move necessary. it didn't move anything on. they've picked people singers. it people that aren't singers. it feels like it's doing everything not musical, but also not to be a musical, but it also forgot to be show, and it just forgot to be a show, and it just leaves these stranded leaves these little stranded scenes that are a bit am dram, and there's no engagement. it's torturous and really disappointing. and there's some good little performances in there. there really are . but it there. there really are. but it did not work for me. and it's a shock. the national theatre, which has never failed me even when haven't enjoyed show, when i haven't enjoyed a show, i've this time. i've respected it. this time. i'm sorry. dead in the water, michael . i'm sorry. dead in the water, michael. sinking i'm sorry. dead in the water, michael . sinking without a michael. sinking without a trace. sorry >> well, drowned out by howls of disappointment, stefan >> well, drowned out by howls of disappointment , stefan kyriazis, disappointment, stefan kyriazis, thank you so much. you're watching michael portillo on gb news, britain's news channel. that concludes the first hour of the program. don't go away . i'll the program. don't go away. i'll be back after the break. we'll

be back after the break. we'll be discussing whether you should be discussing whether you should be able to buy by exclusivity. there this there was uproar earlier this week it came to light that week when it came to light that tourists can enjoy the wonders of such as the of the world, such as the acropolis forthemselves, of the world, such as the acropolis for themselves, for acropolis or for themselves, for a price. and be a high price. and we'll be marking bison scenery, marking byron's bison scenery, and speaking and i'll be speaking to a princess an auction next princess about an auction next week. you week. don't go away. see you then. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news . news. news. news. >> good morning. welcome to your latest gb news weather from the met office. so it's another dry start for many of us this morning with plenty of sunshine around. however, cloudier conditions towards scotland conditions out towards scotland due to weak weather front due to this weak weather front that's to sinking that's going to be sinking its way southwards through rest way southwards through the rest of today. pressure is still of today. high pressure is still in though, that will of today. high pressure is still in bringingiough, that will of today. high pressure is still in bringingiough, sunnierl be bringing us those sunnier skies, much skies, particularly across much of wales and northern of england, wales and northern ireland today. probably ireland through today. probably seeing the sunshine, seeing the best of the sunshine, maybe the odd 1 or 2 showers

just skirting along the southeast england. but southeast coast of england. but it's eastern parts of it's across eastern parts of scotland northern it's across eastern parts of scotlandthat northern it's across eastern parts of scotlandthat will northern it's across eastern parts of scotlandthat will see them it's across eastern parts of scotlandthat will see the1 england that will see the cloudier skies today, with outbreaks pushing outbreaks of rain slowly pushing their through their way southwards through the day. that day. feeling warm in that sunshine. highs of or 15 sunshine. highs of 14 or 15 degrees the south, perhaps 16 degrees in the south, perhaps 16 across northern ireland, but definitely chillier across northern ireland, but definitall chillier across northern ireland, but definitall that chillier across northern ireland, but definitall that cloud llier across northern ireland, but definitall that cloud and rain under all that cloud and rain through the rest of sunday. that cloud sink its way cloud continues to sink its way southwards across much the southwards across much of the uk overnight into the early overnight and into the early hours of monday morning. southern eastern of southern and eastern parts of england, holding to england, perhaps holding on to some clearer for some of those clearer skies for the time the early the longest time into the early hours the morning. so, hours of the morning. so, turning chilly here, turning quite chilly here, we could frost could see some frost with temperatures in low single temperatures in the low single figures, staying. figures, but generally staying. not as cold not quite, not quite as cold elsewhere. temperatures in the high quite high single figures quite widely, it's a cloudy and widely, so it's a cloudy and damp for many us on damp start for many of us on monday. outbreaks of rain continue their way continue to spread their way southwards as we go through the day monday, not turning day on monday, not turning particularly , but particularly heavy, but definitely and more particularly heavy, but definiteday and more particularly heavy, but definiteday than and more particularly heavy, but definiteday than we've more particularly heavy, but definiteday than we've seen�* particularly heavy, but definiteday than we've seen over cloudy day than we've seen over the weekend . perhaps hazy the weekend. perhaps some hazy sunshine across the very far southeast. it's parts of southeast. but it's parts of scotland that will see the best of the sunshine through the

afternoon, of a afternoon, and a bit of a chillier as well, with highs chillier day as well, with highs of degrees the north. >> so that warm inside >> so that warm feeling inside from boilers sponsors of from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good afternoon, and welcome to the second hour of sunday with michael portillo on gb news the world's greatest attractions can be yours to enjoy in private . from the seven wonders of the world to michelangelo's painted ceiling in the sistine chapel in the vatican. you're willing the vatican. if you're willing to enough . but should we be to pay enough. but should we be allowed to exclusivity ? is allowed to buy exclusivity? is it the same issue as asking? should we be able to buy private health care or education? stella stands taoiseach and ryan—mark parsons will be here to discuss

that with me. in the past days, we've marked the bicentenary of the poet rake and freedom fighter lord byron. a compelling new biography examines his life through his thousands of letters to and to friends, confidants and lovers . i'll be speaking to the lovers. i'll be speaking to the author, professor andrew storfer . i'll be joined by princess dora loewenstein as she prepares to sell the eclectic art collection of her late ex—husband, count manfred de la guerra , who was a celebrated guerra, who was a celebrated italian interior designer , italian interior designer, collector, art dealer and curator. she'll be highlighting some of the interesting pieces that will be on display at the auction next wednesday. and finally, as part of my taste of britain series, i was speaking to food editor of the jewish chronicle, victoria trevor, who will be sharing with us some of the passover traditions and food that jews around the world will be enjoying during their festival of freedom. this coming week. all of that ahead. but first, your news headlines with cameron .

cameron walker. >> thanks, michael. it's 12:01. >> thanks, michael. it's12:01. i'm cameron walker here in the gb newsroom . the metropolitan gb newsroom. the metropolitan police commissioner is facing calls to quit over the force's handung calls to quit over the force's handling of pro—palestinian protests . former home secretary protests. former home secretary suella braverman has accused sir mark rowley of having emboldened anti—semites. writing in the sunday telegraph, she says thugs are being allowed to intimidate and harass, claiming they're being waved on by police. the campaign against anti—semitism is also calling for sir mark to resign or be sacked after its chief executive, gideon falter , chief executive, gideon falter, was described as openly jewish by an officer cabinet minister claire coutinho says the government is addressing the incident. >> the home secretary has made clear that what happened was unacceptable. i understand there's going to be a meeting in there's going to be a meeting in the coming days. i don't know what conversation is going to take place there. i think we should see how that conversation goes. ultimately goes. but ultimately what's really important is that people in jewish community feel in the jewish community feel safe. they know that we're on

their and that what we want their side and that what we want to is equal policing in this to see is equal policing in this country. to make sure country. and also to make sure that they can go about their normal lives. that's what i want to see. >> a decision by the us to approve £49 billion in aid for ukraine has been welcomed by the uk, with the foreign secretary describing it as a vital step forward after months of wrangling, american politicians ended a deadlock, agreeing to provide a package which will also help replenish weapons and munitions. president zelenskyy says the move will keep the war from expanding and will save thousands lives . 20 million thousands of lives. 20 million people were plagued by the anti—social behaviour and vandalism last year, according to new figures. shadow home secretary yvette cooper is pledging that a labour government would get tough to restore community safety. however, former police officer oliver lawrence believes more policy is not the answer. >> more legislation, more policy, more procedure isn't going to fix it. i would argue that we've got more than enough

with more than 32 pieces of legislation already there. legislation already out there. what we need is proper enforcement and proper execution of the legislation by our justice system to make sure that we have penalties for people that commit these crimes in our communities . communities. >> the victims of last weekend's knife attack in sydney have been remembered at a candlelight vigil on bondi beach, obe kc grace how sweet the sound . six grace how sweet the sound. six people were killed by joel cauchi and a shopping centre last saturday. the attacker was shot dead by police. australia's prime minister, anthony albanese , told the family and friends of victims that may those we have lost rest in eternal peace forever in our hearts . wales is forever in our hearts. wales is set to change a controversial law on new speed limits. half a million people signed a petition

raising concerns about the 20mph zones, saying some routes should not have been included. the government says the new limits will remain in place around schools, hospitals and built up areas, but has admitted its guidance needs to be corrected in other places. the welsh transport minister is expected to announce the changes on tuesday . a record number of tuesday. a record number of people are running the london marathon as we speak. these are, in a moment live pictures from central london. there we go where people are lining the route to support the 50,000 runners taking part in the last half an hour or so. olympic champion peres jepchirchir set a new world record for the professional women's race, winning in two hours, 16 minutes and 16 seconds. gb news political editor christopher hopeis political editor christopher hope is among the general public taking part, aiming to complete the 26.2 mile route with his children . children. >> we're running for scope with the disabled charity . our the disabled charity. our daughter pollyanna, of course,

lost a leg in that bus crash 17 years ago. on thursday next week . very sadly, my wife, sarah's mother, was killed in that crash. so we've been it's something we've been a part of our lives for so long, but we want to raise money for scope, which which advocates for disabled people , 11, 16 million disabled people, 11, 16 million people in this country are seen as disabled. so it's a group which we think is very important. and thanks to everyone for their support. good luck to all those marathon runners today. >> for the latest stories sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code your screen or go the qr code on your screen or go to news. common. it's now the qr code on your screen or go to back ws. common. it's now the qr code on your screen or go to back to. common. it's now the qr code on your screen or go to back to michaeln. it's now i >> -- >> thank 5mm >> thank you very much, karen walker. there was uproar in athens when it was revealed that those with money may visit the

acropolis when no other tourist is admitted for ,5,000 for a group of five. the aim is to raise money. but some see the arrangement as elitist and unfair. the acropolis is far from being in the vanguard. you can make an exclusive visit to saint mark's and the doge's palace in venice for over £300. you can enjoy the vatican's sistine chapel crowd free for £446, you can have karnak temple on the nile yourself for £410, and a dinner at the luxor temple for just over £1,500. should we be able to buy such private access? is it the same as asking? should we be able to buy private health care or education? to discuss this ethical conundrum , i'm joined by ethical conundrum, i'm joined by the public affairs consultant and former labour aide, stella sanseido. welcome sarah. lovely to see you. well, what is your reaction to this , your your your reaction to this, your your your greek, aren't you? >> i am, yes , born and raised >> i am, yes, born and raised and from athens, by any chance? i'm from thessaloniki , actually,

i'm from thessaloniki, actually, yeah. lovely. thessaloniki. now the acropolis thing. we've just used it as an illustration. there is a point of principle here. should people be able to buy private access , so buy private access, so i generally think that for most things, the problem with buying private access to public goods, pubuc private access to public goods, public services is that you have a situation where rich people don't feel like they're invested in this private public services because they feel like they can get better treatment with their money. so they don't use their social clout and their economic capital to make services better for everyone. when it comes for everyone. now, when it comes to the acropolis, though, and these £5,000 access, this is only the latest in a very long chain of events in greece where we've seen a lot of things that used to be free. now, no longer are or things are just more expensive. one example that i like to give is , water in like to give is, water in greece. by by law, bottled water. a small bottle of water has to cost £0.50, but then you go to, but, but, but since

airports have been bought by, by, the by a german company called fraport , they've started called fraport, they've started selling, evian or other foreign brands for, like, for something like ,5. and they hide the greek bottles of water. so that the tourists don't know that they can buy really cheap water and they only sell and the only they only have at the front, you know, the very expensive water, which is something that's extremely anti—greek. and greek people hate that of thing. people hate that kind of thing. >> let's move it from the >> let's, let's move it from the greek example to the generalisation. can we really stop people in the end, using their money to buy whatever they want? let's, let's want? i mean, let's, let's address health and public address public health and public education, public health and pubuc education, public health and public education. sorry. mean public education. sorry. i mean private health and private private health and private private private. >> we can't stop them, we >> we can't stop them, but we can definitely make an argument for is bad for for why this is bad for everyone. so take public schools, for example. take state schools, for example. take state schools, for example. take state schools, for example, a middle class parent or a upper middle class parent or a upper middle class parent or a upper middle class parent who has the money and the social capital and knows how work system, who has

how to work the system, who has the to send their kids the ability to send their kids to a private school is not going to a private school is not going to be invested their state to be invested in their state school, their local school. school, in their local school. being now , at the same being good now, at the same time, if they were able to take their kids to that school and they improved that school, that would who do would mean that parents who do not ask for better not know how to ask for better schools would also benefit from that school. the same goes for the nhs. if rich people keep on accessing private health health care, how can they know what's going on at the nhs waiting list? how can they vote for politicians who are going to effectively tackle the nhs waiting lists if they themselves don't suffer from them? >> so what's your solution to that? would you oblige to that? would you oblige people to go nhs, the public go through the nhs, the public health so that they can health system, so that they can appreciate how bad it is? >> i wouldn't do that >> no, i wouldn't do that because we live a democracy because we live in a democracy show. people should still be allowed have the choices. but allowed to have the choices. but i should not make i think we should not make concessions. should not make i think we should not make coeasierons. should not make i think we should not make coeasier for. should not make i think we should not make coeasier for them,1ould not make i think we should not make coeasier for them, andi not make i think we should not make coeasier for them, and wet make it easier for them, and we should find ways through should find other ways through taxation, for example, to make sure that one way or the or another, they feel invested into

pubuc another, they feel invested into public services. because what the showed us, what the pandemic has showed us, what covid showed us, is that it doesn't matter how rich you are if and how healthy you can be, if and how healthy you can be, if people are not healthy, if other people are not healthy, then eventually this will get to you as well . you as well. >> we've been joined by ryan—mark parsons. i think you may be panting, you are on the apprentice . of course, tell us apprentice. of course, tell us your view as to whether people should be allowed to buy private space, private health, private education? >> well, i think it's very simple in terms of offering these amazing historical attractions the opportunity for people to have private tours , people to have private tours, for example, at the acropolis, which you can pay for £4,300, and you can actually have a private tour of these amazing sites that mark's basilica you can go to the sistine chapel, you can go to the sistine chapel, you pay can go to the sistine chapel, you pay a premium. even the british museum , which sees about british museum, which sees about 6 million people every year, go there . and i think having the there. and i think having the opfion there. and i think having the option to pay a premium and enjoy it more, but also fund

these amazing sites , i think is these amazing sites, i think is great, and i think people should have the prerogative to do that. and absolutely. and they do. and i was looking at some stats earlier, the world, tourism organisation found that 40% more revenue is received by these venues through these private tours . so you're getting the tours. so you're getting the money and then directly investing it into the preservation, the maintenance, the management of these sites, which are extremely delicate, obviously, and if we're able to diversify the funding options for these sites, maybe the acropolis or maybe saint mark's basilica, then i think that's a great thing. why be reliant? there shouldn't be a dependence on government funds if we have the option to receive more money from private tours from wealthier tourists that are able to afford it, and that's my case. >> and let's broaden it out from there to think about things like private education and private health. stella making health. you heard stella making the point. yes, that people who don't experience the nhs or don't experience the nhs or

don't experience the bog standard comprehensive school become indifferent to the standards that are being applied to those who cannot afford to go to those who cannot afford to go to higher echelons . to higher echelons. >> well, if people if parents have the money to send their children to private school, or if you as an individual have access to funds to afford private health care, i'm i think that's totally fine. i don't think there's any issue in that. it's just i think it really sounds it sounds quite simplified, but i think and quite minimised. but i think thatis quite minimised. but i think that is life and that is just the way it is. i mean, some people have more money than others. end of story. why are we overcomplicating yes it may overcomplicating it? yes it may in a way be the end of the story. >> i mean, and that's more or less i think why i raised the topic today. but do you topic today. but but do you think stella is right, that people who don't experience what the. you know, what the generality of the majority of people don't people experience if they don't experience they experience those things, they become what become indifferent to what that generality experiencing. generality is experiencing. >> think that say, >> well, i think that say, i don't agree with that at all. i think that's the wrong perception. i went to private perception. i went to a private school and experienced

school and i have experienced a generality life . i know what generality of life. i know what happensin generality of life. i know what happens in life. i think to suggest that someone like me, who went to a private school, benefited from private education would somehow be completely shut off from what other people experienced. like, i don't know , experienced. like, i don't know, even i've got private healthcare, but i understand and ihave healthcare, but i understand and i have used the nhs, so i know there are waiting lists. i know that it's hard to get an appointment. i know that it's hard to see gp. so i think hard to see your gp. so i think having access to that doesn't necessarily mean are necessarily mean that you are completely the completely be oblivious to the hardships of people , hardships that a lot of people, the majority of the people in this country face. and that's what i would say to that, quite simply, stella, you you think there's a kind of moral hazard to being a billionaire , don't you? >>i you? >> i mean, it's not only that you worry about what the generality of people, which you do, but you even worry about the kind of mental health, kind of welfare of the billionaire. yes. >> i think that it's very bad for people's soul and for, for

them as, as human beings to be extremely rich because it disconnects you completely from the rest of humanity . and my the rest of humanity. and my worry, the more income inequality continues to grow, is that you have people who literally are completely disconnected from the rest of the world. so for a lot of people, it doesn't even touch them. what goes on in these tours or in these private jets? >> it's interesting that many billionaires have become great philanthropists, don't they? yes and i think it is great that they are philanthropists. >> and i think that it's very important that rich people are as they as they as philanthropic as they as they can it is actually to can be. and it is actually to our great shame that a lot of millionaires in the uk no longer the top, the top 1% no longer gives to charity as much as they used to. i think that's a great shame . but i do think there is shame. but i do think there is something about being able to be to live a life close to the rest of people. i think it's bad for your character as a human being, because you start believing that you are better than others, that

you are better than others, that you are better than others, that you are somehow different. poor people lose their humanities, their humanity. when you have completely sheltered yourself from. >> let me put that point to ryan. do you think that it can be bad for the character of the very rich person and do you think that the very rich person does have an obligation? for example , through philanthropy? example, through philanthropy? >> yes. i would say there's an obugafion >> yes. i would say there's an obligation to give back the obligation to give back to the community. they do community. and whether they do that through sending money to charities, with charities, working with charities, working with charities , promoting awareness charities, promoting awareness to certain causes, i would say there's a moral obligation, but i really don't see where you're getting at with this. i don't understand the solution. there will be people with more money. and i think if you've worked hard and you have access to more money, you should enjoy the luxuries that come with it. you should. you should be able to see acropolis privately if see the acropolis privately if you want to. you should be able to health care. you to get private health care. you should your should be able to send your children what children to private school. what is do we need is the issue? why do we need we are complaining something. are complaining about something.

>> need to be >> why does anyone need to be a billionaire? why? >> we work hard. we're >> of course we work hard. we're going the money. going to make the money. >> one of the interesting things about is about ethical discussions is they necessarily have they don't necessarily have solutions, very solutions, but they're very interesting themselves as interesting in themselves as stella akua and ryan mark parsons, thank you both very much. after the break, i was speaking to professor andrew storfer his new biography storfer about his new biography on lord byron, of the most on lord byron, one of the most celebrated poets. celebrated romantic poets. coinci the 200th coinci with the recent 200th anniversary byron's death

welcome back. in the past few days, we've marked the bicentenary of lord byron's death. george gordon byron is widely regarded as one of the greatest of english poets. a man who was also famously described by his lover, lady caroline lamb, as mad, bad and dangerous. to know . a new book, which we to know. a new book, which we discussed a few weeks back,

byron, a life in ten letters, charts ten distinct stages of the poet's life through a selection of his voluminous correspondence. as we've now reached the byzantine vie, i'm very pleased to be rejoined by the author andrew stauffer , the author andrew stauffer, who's professor at the university of virginia and president of the byron society of america. welcome back to gb news great time. you're here in person, which is absolutely marvellous. it's wonderful . the marvellous. it's wonderful. the last were on the last time you were on the program, discussed , a program, we discussed, a document, an autobiographical document, an autobiographical document had been prepared document which had been prepared by byron, which was destroyed by his former editor. i think a number of people had read it, and the consensus was that it was too scandalous to be allowed to, to live on. and it was destroyed . we don't know exactly destroyed. we don't know exactly what was in it, but i'd like you to speculate. and there's been a recent discovery which might throw some light upon it. is that right? >> that's right. yes. the byron's memoir is sort of one of those lost grails of literary history byron's history that, you know, byron's own of his memoir

own 78 full pages of his memoir that was burned, as you said, by friends and advisors after byron's death, after they decided it was just too scandalous for her to be published, or even for posterity. they made that decision for us that even we shouldn't and some shouldn't read it. and some people did read it, though, before it was destroyed and people left slight memories of what some of the bits that they remembered. so certain anecdotes we have about his relationship with wife for example, come with his wife for example, come from memories. and just from that memories. and just recently a letter has just this week, a letter at trinity has has surfaced. a woman remembered reading part of the memoir and being shocked at how cold byron was to his wife , and how sort of was to his wife, and how sort of cruel he was in his in his rhetoric about her. on the other hand, what's interesting about this new letter to me is how impressed she is with byron's style, even as she says he's perverted or evil or wicked, he's like. but the prose is so strong. it's witty, it's urbane ,

strong. it's witty, it's urbane, it's clear. and she sort of laments that he was such a great writer , even as he could manage writer, even as he could manage to be so sort of seems seemingly cold about about lady byron. >> found that very interesting >> i found that very interesting , too, because what imagines people early part of the people in the early part of the 19th century being pretty sort of stiff , you know, tight laced, of stiff, you know, tight laced, stiff shirted . and yet here is stiff shirted. and yet here is this woman who might have been deeply shocked by what she read. and actually, she does say she's very shocked by what she's read, but nonetheless, she's making allowances for byron. and wasn't this the story of his life? despite so much scandal, i mean, his funeral was attended by thousands, was it not? that's right. >> yeah . he he was right. >> yeah. he he was a right. >> yeah . he he was a divisive >> yeah. he he was a divisive figure almost from the beginning for both the details of his personal life, as which he lived very much out loud in public after a certain point . and for after a certain point. and for the poetry which was deemed blasphemous or scandalous or politically on the wrong side, or to scabrous to be published

so and yet he was a figure that compelled public attention the way celebrities do now. and a lot of that has to do with the strength of the writing that he said , i twine my hopes of being said, i twine my hopes of being remembered in my line with my land's language. and that's a that's worth lingering on, because when he says my line, he means the line of byron, the aristocratic line that he's part of. but he means the line of poetry, the line of writing and the language really , that that's the language really, that that's where he's going to be remembered as he used remembered as the way he used the english language in all of its resources, its complicated resources, really exposing those and using them creatively, creatively . so them creatively, creatively. so even as that woman is and others were disapproving of the content , they couldn't help but part of them being swept away by the power of the verse. them being swept away by the povwell, the verse. them being swept away by the povwell, although. them being swept away by the povwell, although it's very >> well, although it's very shocking he very mean shocking that he was very mean to his and i think his to his wife and i think his mother in law in in this memoir, i venture to suggest that this is that that's not what made the

others burn it. what do you think? yeah, it's a good question. >> i mean, first off, the document, the memoir wasn't written at the end of his life. it was written almost sort of halfway through, soon after the separation so separation from lady byron. so one might that such a one might expect that such a document would have fairly severe things to say about the relationship that has just broken up. right, so that that in certain way, i think that in a certain way, i think that that tone, angry tone, that that tone, that angry tone, that she caught in the memoir is catching byron at a moment where the relationship has recently ended. feeling betrayed or ended. he's feeling betrayed or hurt, whether he deserves to feel that way or not. he felt that lady byron had had sort of treated badly, and her treated him badly, and her family him badly. treated him badly, and her famiso him badly. treated him badly, and her famiso the him badly. treated him badly, and her famiso the memoirhim badly. treated him badly, and her famiso the memoir reflected'. and so the memoir reflected that. and that's what that's what the reader saw. >> it's difficult to know what the scale of things was at the beginning of the 19th century. i mean, it was being mean to your wife regarded as more shocking than sleeping with your half sister . well, or indeed sister. well, yeah. or indeed sleeping men. sister. well, yeah. or indeed sle that's right. and i don't know how he says when he described memoir. byron did described the memoir. byron did that. only treated his loves

that. it only treated his loves in that it wasn't in a general way, that it wasn't a . all right. but a tell. all right. but nevertheless, byron loved tvs. and as the reader, that letter we just that just was discovered. as she says, byron seems to love to present himself as wicked, to even confess things that he might not have done or to exaggerate the degree that he wicked things. that he had done wicked things. and i bet the memoir did have and so i bet the memoir did have some pretty, you know, hot, fiery passages. but it seems fiery hot passages. but it seems to course , an to us, of course, an overreaction that couldn't they have just put it in a in a bank vauu have just put it in a in a bank vault for 100 years and let us, let us read it now. but we do have this is sort of the part of the reason that the biography, i'll these i'll hold it up, these two lovely they nice lovely book. they did a nice cambridge university press , did cambridge university press, did a job with the a wonderful job with the production, have his production, but we have his letters. about 3000 letters survive and in those you get that same, racy , witty, urbane, that same, racy, witty, urbane, varied discourse that probably was in the memoir as well. >> we've talked about trinity college, cambridge, and there's a letter written when he's at trinity college. that's right. do your your

do you want to put your your thumb into your book and give it give moment? thumb into your book and give it giv

drunkenness, nothing but hazard in burgundy hunting mathematics and newmarket riot and racing. yet it is a paradise compared with the eternal dullness of southwell. oh, the misery of doing nothing but make love enemies and verses. and just one more paragraph. i've got a new friend here, the finest in the world, a tame bear. when i brought him here, they asked me what i meant to do with him, and my reply was he should sit for a fellowship. this answer delighted not. we have delighted them not. we have eternal here this eternal parties here and this evening assortment of evening a large assortment of jockeys, boxers, jockeys, gamblers, boxers, authors, poets sup authors, parsons and poets sup with me a precious mixture, but they go on well together, and for me i am a spice of everything. >> we were discussing last week on this program. the sad death of letter writing . and that of letter writing. and that really proves the point. can you imagine receiving such a magnificent letter today? yes, is byron today remembered for his scandalous private life or for his poetry ? i think the for his poetry? i think the answer is probably more for his private life. should he be

remembered more for his poetry? >> it's changed in a generation or two, i would say probably a couple generations couple of generations ago. he was for certain set was remembered for certain set pieces go a—roving. pieces will go no more a—roving. she walks in beauty, maid of athens. certain pieces that were anthologised , memorised in anthologised, memorised in schools recited the. the schools and recited the. the syrian came down like a wolf on the fold. you know, these are all poems that were were known and remembered, they and remembered, but they represent of represent a small fraction of his total achievement. his total poetic achievement. he's hard, he's been it's been hard, i think, for people to keep byron in view as a poet, because he tends work in long formats. tends to work in long formats. epic donjuan epic poems like donjuan or childe pilgrimage, or childe harold's pilgrimage, or long plays and or narrative tales that we just don't consume as much anymore as readers of poetry , we tend to prefer the poetry, we tend to prefer the lyric and short, short bits . and lyric and short, short bits. and then of course, his his personal life is so interesting and full, crammed with incident and locations characters. it's locations and characters. it's like a mini series in its own right that that people get really into that. and i'm hoping that that the life will be a kind of gateway drug to the poetry if people haven't poetry that if people haven't read of poetry,

read as much of the poetry, they'll become fascinated they'll become so fascinated with , brilliant with this annoying, brilliant young man who died at the age of 36, that they'll want to read some the verse and get more some of the verse and get more into that. some of the verse and get more inthould you just restate the >> would you just restate the name book, please, byron ? >> 7- >>a 7- >> a life in 7— >> a life in ten 7 >> a life in ten letters. >> a life in ten letters. >> marvellous, by andrew stauffer. and thank you. thank you, mike, for being with us in a minutes, be a few minutes, we'll be exploring an upcoming art auction in auction taking place in berkshire i'll talking to berkshire. i'll be talking to princess loewenstein about princess dora loewenstein about her late ex—husband's colourful life, an eclectic collection . life, an eclectic collection. >> good afternoon. it's 1230. i'm cameron walker here in the gb newsroom. metropolitan police commissioner sir mark rowley is facing calls to quit over the force's handling of pro—palestinian protests . pro—palestinian protests. writing in the telegraph, former home secretary suella braverman accused him of having emboldened anti—semites. the campaign against anti—semitism is also calling for sir mark to resign or be sacked after its chief

executive, gideon falter , was executive, gideon falter, was described as openly jewish by an officer . a decision by the described as openly jewish by an officer. a decision by the us to approve £49 billion in aid for ukraine has been welcomed by the uk, with the foreign secretary describing it as a vital step forward. after months of wrangling, american politicians ended a deadlock, agreeing to provide a package which will also help replenish weapons and munitions. president zelenskyy says the move will keep the war from expanding and will save thousands of lives . wales is set thousands of lives. wales is set to change its controversial law on the new 20mph speed limits, after half a million people signed a petition raising concerns . the government says concerns. the government says the new limits will remain in place around schools , hospitals place around schools, hospitals and built up areas, but has admitted its guidance needs to be corrected in other places. the welsh transport minister is expected to announce the changes on tuesday . expected to announce the changes on tuesday. in the expected to announce the changes on tuesday . in the last hour, on tuesday. in the last hour, olympic champion peres jepchirchir set a new world

record for the london marathon in the women's only category. the kenyan finished the race in two hours, 16 minutes and 16 seconds. in another record. 50,000 people are taking part in this year's event. these are live pictures from central london. you're seeing where supporters are lining the route to cheer the runners on. the general public, many dressed in costumes, started running just after 10:00 this morning, raising millions of pounds for charities . for the latest charities. for the latest stories , sign up to gb news stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gbnews.com/alerts. michael will be back after this short .

break. >> welcome back. the private collection of the late celebrated italian interior designer. collector art dealer and curator, count manfredi della gherardesca is due to go on sale next wednesday, 24th of april in berkshire. organised by the dreweatts auction house, the count was seen as one of the most colourful, culturally erudite and well loved figures in the international art and design scene. the culmination of over three years of planning, the forthcoming sale explores manfredi's many diversions spanning modern and contemporary art, design and photography to old master paintings, english and european furniture and sculpture, as well as the many exceptional decorative objects that he used to balance and curate an eclectic harmony. joining me now to discuss this remarkable collection is the late count's ex—wife, princess maria theodora zu lewenstein. wertheim freudenberg , also known wertheim freudenberg, also known as dora lowenstein, princess welcome very much to gb news and tell me having me, tell me, how

did the how did the count amass this extraordinary collection? how do they develop his love for the arts? >> well, he was brought up in and born in florence and obviously surrounded by very beautiful things. >> and from a very early age he was drawn to the arts and all the museums and beautiful things in florence. so i think from the age of about six, he started his love for all of the things that he carried on liking all his life. and started collecting from then on, and so really, his life was a journey through the arts . and as he grew older, i arts. and as he grew older, i think his taste developed as he went. >> yes, because the extraordinary thing is that one understands that growing up in florence, he would have this love for, for renaissance and indeed for classical art. but he then turned very much to contemporary pieces as well.

where would he find his pieces? where would he find his pieces? where would he find his pieces? where would you find the inspiration to buy his pieces? >> gosh. well he found the pieces absolutely everywhere . pieces absolutely everywhere. whether it be, a small antique shopin whether it be, a small antique shop in gloucestershire, in tetbury or in a flea market in paris or the south of france, or in india, i mean literally everywhere. he was an avid collector and spotted things, and i think , governed his his and i think, governed his his taste was exceptional and his knowledge of art exceptional. but he also liked things that amused, him and others in the collection that's being sold . collection that's being sold. >> what would you what would you point to as being of enormous personal importance to the count ? >> 7. >>i ? >> i think 7_ >> i think one ? >> i think one of the key items, a pair of capricorns, which he happened upon about probably about 12 years ago, 15 years ago, and they were fashioned after the capricorns that sit on

the gates of the boboli gardens in florence and he lived on that side of florence, near the church of santo spirito, and so would have seen those capricorns, as a child and then these came up, with a dealer. and he, i think, really believed that they were, in a taxes, he made some more because the grand duke of tuscany at the time wanted to revamp the gardens in the 18th century. so i think those are a key, a key item, there's also a wonderful , tower, there's also a wonderful, tower, which christopher gibbs, the famous antique, dealer, had, which is fashioned after the qutub minar , which was made for qutub minar, which was made for the first sultan of delhi . the first sultan of delhi. >> how extraordinary, there was a link between his family and dante's inferno, wasn't there? >> indeed. i'm afraid that they

nestled in the inferno, ugolino della gherardesca was caught up in, great political wranglings, back in the day, i think it's sort of my history is not fabulous, but i think in the 12th century or something, between the guelphs and ghibellines and he was, in pfisoned ghibellines and he was, in prisoned after a long battle in the tower of pisa and was famously purported to have eaten his grandchild , i don't think he his grandchild, i don't think he did. but there are some famous, statues, by capo that and others that, depict that rather famous moment in the inferno , i think moment in the inferno, i think he was also mentioned by chaucer in the canterbury tales , who in the canterbury tales, who defended him and said that he did not eat his grandchildren . so. >> and the count was , greatly >> and the count was, greatly admired. i mean, everyone pays tribute to his extraordinary taste and his knowledge, his absolutely encyclopaedic knowledge of art . but lots of

knowledge of art. but lots of people also enjoyed his company, and they had a lot of fun with him. would you like to give us a little bit of an insight into his life? indeed your life, your life together and the legendary parties that you were involved in? >> indeed. well, we both we both enjoyed and i still do. sadly him not. but people very , very him not. but people very, very much and was endlessly he was endlessly, curious about life , endlessly, curious about life, about people he loved, sharing his knowledge of art with them. and, you know, in our various homes, which were usually stuffed full of his things, it was part of part of our entertaining was to share those things , but he was enormous fun. things, but he was enormous fun. quite a flamboyant sense of dress, which also made everyone laugh a lot. and, yes, i had an event management business myself back then, so parties were quite a quite a feature, whether they be fund raising or just for fun.

>> may i ask you , how do how do >> may i ask you, how do how do you feel about the sale? is it a difficult moment for you? it's a moment when people are going to be celebrating his memory and paying be celebrating his memory and paying tribute to his taste and appreciating his collection, but i guess there must be a moment of nostalgia sadness about of nostalgia and sadness about it oh indeed. i think both, both >> oh indeed. i think both, both my children and i would would feel that it's a wonderful way to celebrate his, as you said, wonderful taste and all of those things. but it's also, i think it's very sad that in selling that you're sort of dismantling something that someone's put together. and in essence, i suppose , you know, it signifies suppose, you know, it signifies an end of something which is which is very sad. he was a larger than life person, and i think his items sort of bear testament to that. so it's very sad to see them go, but it has been a cathartic process for us all. i think , and possibly all. i think, and possibly a good one, i don't know, we'll

see. it's, it's difficult. >> that's bravely said. and the auction is next week in berkshire. it's being organised by dreweatts and people can participate , i think, online as participate, i think, online as well as is normal in these events, thank you very much indeed. princess dora loewenstein. >> thank you . >> thank you. >> thank you. >> tomorrow evening marks the start of the jewish holiday of passover, which is centred around the story of the jews freedom from slavery in egypt. following the murders and the seizure of hostages in hamas in israel in october, this will be a particularly poignant festival for many jewish families . i'll for many jewish families. i'll be joined by the food editor of the jewish chronicle, victoria trevor and rabbi mendy cura, who will share with us some passover traditions and delicious delicacies . stay with us

welcome back. jewish families worldwide are preparing for the major holiday of passover, which starts tomorrow night for eight days of festivities celebrated by jews since about 1300 bc. passover, also known as pesach, is a festival that commemorates the emancipation of the jewish people from egyptian slavery. there are many food traditions observed over the eight days. my guests are the food editor of the jewish chronicle, victoria preva and rabbi mendy cora. rabbi very good to see you. let's start with you. if we may , let's start with you. if we may, tell us about the importance we've heard the brief history . we've heard the brief history. so this is the moment when the jews after what, a very long penod jews after what, a very long period of enslavement in egypt, managed to escape. it's more than michael. >> thank you. it's much more than just managing to escape . than just managing to escape. it's the beginning of nationhood. yes, and it's that beginning of time from then, of having a jewish identity. and that continues throughout all

the generations. having this family festival that people sit together, have the various ingredients that we eat, retell the story and remember , bring the story and remember, bring that story and how it makes us, how we are till today. >> right? so it's obviously a time of celebration. and yet i'm also aware from reading some background on this that there are still important prohibitions. there are things that mustn't be eaten. there's food that needs to be simplified. there's a cleansing process that needs to be gone through. tell me, how does that relate to celebration ? relate to celebration? >> so, with every celebration, we're always going to have things that we're going to put aside in order to allow that celebration to happen properly . celebration to happen properly. so imagine a family that wants to spend a sunday afternoon together, put your phones away in order to allow that space to happen. and that would be the same over here. is we're focusing on putting away food that has been allowed to rise.

so therefore any grain that has got wheat or other types of grain which we mix water into it, we make a point to clean that out from our home and what that out from our home and what that represents. kabbalistically is a concept of humility. you know , a flat matzo, which i can know, a flat matzo, which i can show you over here. >> now, first of all, introduce this box to us. why is this arrived in a cardboard box? so labelled passover? >> yes, indeed. surprise, surprise , so what we have over surprise, so what we have over here is for the chabad community in islington and throughout the country, we specifically try to make a point to make judaism accessible and available for anyone that wishes to celebrate. they're going to be some people that can join community or a that can join a community or a family, there's some that family, and there's some that are isolated in at home. so what we've over here is a go we've designed over here is a go to box where we can take out all the different items . we have the the different items. we have the matzo, we have the wine, we have the various ceremonial items that we eat as well, and the

book as well in there. and each one of these items, people would then be able to use in their home, so, you know, for us, we're organising a big, large communal say that we're having record numbers of people over 150 people coming to our communal seder. yeah, at the same time as well, making this available for people to have in their home. >> now, victoria, here is a sort of map in this kit that the rabbi has brought in and this obviously relates to what you have here. so tell us about this what i would call plate. but obviously we'll have a special name. tell us about that. all right. >> so during the evening that we celebrating, a seder celebrating, it's called a seder which literally means order, and we run through the story of, the israelites departing from egypt and the various items on here are, help us remember what happened right. >> tell us about the various items we have. >> i'll start with with the egg,

which represents, it reflects back to the offerings made, at the altar , but also the, the the altar, but also the, the roundness, the circle of life . roundness, the circle of life. the maror is the bitter. >> just lift those out. would you say we can see what? >> so the egg which i have boiled and roasted. yes we won't eat it, but it's a symbolic. >> absolutely. we have some horseradish. maror which represents when we eat it, it's part of our service . it's the part of our service. it's the bitter flavour, the bitter taste in the mouths of the israelites, i don't know if, you'd like to have a little taste of them. >> well, i yeah, let me at this later stage, may experience some bitterness. >> yes. >> yes. >> so how about i'll just try a little little piece and it's very strong. i rather like that though. and there's something that reminds you of the mortar that reminds you of the mortar that was used for the building of the pyramids. for which jewish slaves were used. >> right. so that is the haroset and that's something we eat only

at passover, although i will continue eating throughout the festival because i absolutely love it. so it's part of our ceremony, it's made from apples and nuts. >> let's be trying this. >> let's be trying this. >> this is lovely . so i've >> this is lovely. so i've brought you today three different versions because jewish people have . obviously, jewish people have. obviously, the diaspora went to live all over the world and our food traditions reflect where we were. so we've adopted local food traditions. so ashkenazi jews predominantly in eastern europe, would have made their haroset from apples and nuts. how are we going to give this to you? >>i you? >> i could i could take you on a napkin, perhaps, or dip them upsuin napkin, perhaps, or dip them upsu in it. >> yeah , absolutely. >> yeah, absolutely. >> yeah, absolutely. >> what do we over here >> so what do we have over here is musar that's hand baked. is a musar that's hand baked. yeah, in factory in yeah, it's made in a factory in ukraine. and actually still open. yes, we could the open. and yes, we could try the different . which one would you different. which one would you like to try? >> well, let's start with the ashkenazi, is one ashkenazi, which is the one i grew up with. right. >> good. thank you very >> very good. thank you very much, is made only from much, this is made only from flour water, isn't it? flour and water, isn't it? >> matzo is. yes it's not

>> the matzo is. yes it's not allowed to rise. and the whole point is we're not allowed to eat anything leavened. and the matzo has to be made within 18 minutes from start to finish to avoid the fermentation process happening. it's also strict. >> what have you put on there now? >> so this is a sephardi style , >> so this is a sephardi style, haroset, which i might say these are delicious. >> it's one allowed to say they're delicious. >> absolutely. thank you . so >> absolutely. thank you. so that's dates, and apricots that's with dates, and apricots and toasted nuts, some red wine. there's red kiddush wine in both of these, i can't think what else i've put in that one, but you get that. so i've cooked that one a little, so that one was raw. think that's more exciting. >> let me rush if i may. >> let me rush one, if i may. yeah. so the far side they're on what's wooden board. so what's on that wooden board. so we this just now. what's on that wooden board. so we so this just now. what's on that wooden board. so we so in this just now. what's on that wooden board. so we so in order�*iis just now. what's on that wooden board. so we so in order to just now. what's on that wooden board. so we so in order to make ow. what's on that wooden board. so we so in order to make them up >> so in order to make them up some more palatable, we got very creative . not me, of creative. not just me, plenty of other food writers. and other jewish food writers. and we've added things to it. so this has got caramel, chocolate, fruits nuts . we call it fruits and nuts. we call it matzo brittle, matzo crack. >> all of allowed , is it?

>> all of this allowed, is it? >> all of this allowed, is it? >> yes. >> yes. well >> yes. well depends >> yes. well depends actually >> yes. well it depends actually there's my i've have one. >> so this one's decorated with what chocolate. you said. yes. >> this is the recipe that >> so, this is the recipe that i've got two recipes my own. and the recipe of a lovely baker. he's got a bakery in bushey. he makes it every year, isn't it fabulous? and he sells out and he. there's not enough to. he doesn't want to make too much. it's messy, and it takes a lot of work. so, he gave us his recipe this year and it's been super popular on our website, so i i would and i thought i would try his. and i make one with just nuts and sea salt and chocolate. >> all they're all >> well, they're all they're all absolutely you absolutely fabulous. thank you very much. so passover begins on which night. which night? tomorrow night. tomorrow night. and a very important, celebration for all of you. thank you so much for coming in just before your passover to tell us all about it. that's victoria and rabbi mendy cora, indeed. thanks to all my guests. as you saw, many of them came into the studio again on a sunday, which i'm always very grateful to and i'm very grateful to all of you at

home for watching the program. i will be back next week. until then, i'm certainly going to miss you, if you are celebrating passover, have a very happy and holy celebration . so . holy celebration. so. >> it looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> good morning. welcome to your latest gb news weather from the met office. so it's another dry start for many of us this morning with plenty of sunshine around. however cloudier conditions towards scotland around. however cloudier con(to ons towards scotland around. however cloudier con(to ons weaknards scotland around. however cloudier con(to ons weak weatherotland around. however cloudier con(to ons weak weather fronti due to this weak weather front that's going to be sinking its way southwards through the rest of today. high pressure still of today. high pressure is still in so that will in charge though, so that will be those sunnier be bringing us those sunnier skies, across much skies, particularly across much of wales and northern probably the probably the best probably the best of probably the best of the probably the best of the sunshine, seeing the best of the sunshine, maybe or 2 showers maybe the odd 1 or 2 showers just skirting along the southeast england. but southeast coast of england. but

it's of it's across eastern parts of scotland northern scotland and into northern england the england that will see the cloudier skies with cloudier skies today, with outbreaks of slowly pushing outbreaks of rain slowly pushing their southwards through their way southwards through the day. that day. feeling warm in that sunshine. of 14 or 15 sunshine. highs of 14 or 15 degrees in the south, perhaps 16 across northern ireland, but definitely chillier across northern ireland, but definitall chillier across northern ireland, but definitall cloud llier across northern ireland, but definitall cloud and rain under all that cloud and rain through rest of sunday. that through the rest of sunday. that cloud continues to sink its way southwards across much the southwards across much of the uk. overnight and into the early hours monday morning. hours of monday morning. southern of southern and eastern parts of england holding to england perhaps holding on to some clearer skies for some of those clearer skies for the time into the early the longest time into the early hours morning. so, hours of the morning. so, turning chilly we turning quite chilly here, we could with could see some frost with temperatures in the low single figures, staying temperatures in the low single figuquite staying temperatures in the low single figuquite , staying temperatures in the low single figuquite , not staying temperatures in the low single figuquite , not quite staying temperatures in the low single figuquite , not quite as:aying temperatures in the low single figuquite , not quite as cold] not quite, not quite as cold elsewhere. temperatures in the high single figures quite widely, so it's a cloudy and damp start many of us on damp start for many of us on monday. outbreaks rain monday. outbreaks of rain continue spread way continue to spread their way southwards as we go through the day not turning day on monday, not turning particularly heavy , but particularly heavy, but definitely and more definitely a greyer and more cloudy than seen cloudy day than we've seen over the weekend perhaps hazy the weekend. perhaps some hazy sunshine across the very far southeast. it's parts of southeast. but it's parts of scotland that will see the best of the sunshine the of the sunshine through the afternoon, of afternoon, and a bit of a chillier day as well, with highs

of or degrees in the north. >> warm feeling inside >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. way. >> hello and welcome to gb news sunday. >> hope you're having a wonderful weekend out there. >> i'm dawn neesom and for the next couple of hours, i'm going to be joining you with a brilliant, brilliant show coming up you, online, on telly and up for you, online, on telly and on radio. and coming up in the first hour. are you proud to be english? well, labour leader keir starmer says labour must not flinch from flying saint george's flag, declaring that his party is the patriotic party . now, don't think he paused before that, but i did then. a teacher has revealed her shock when she asked her pupils if they hated britain and 30 of them, 30, raised their hands with some muslim pupils claiming

that the taliban