tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight i conversation with meat loaf. he helped define the sound of the generation with "bat out of hell". he has a new cd called "hell in a handbasket" featuring guest artists like little john. a conversation with meat loaf coming up. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like

you. thank you. tavis: please welcome meat loaf to this program. his iconic record, "bat out of hell", remain as one of the five biggest selling albums of all time. he is back with the much talked- about new album called "hell in a handbasket". here is some of the video from "fall from grace." >> the character of the album has totally fallen from grace in

his own eyes. he then is witness to the rest of the world and it is a constant thing and you hear it all the time now. when the politicians who had the affairs and you heard constantly, another has fallen from grace. -- the sense of your whole world that it can go to hell in a handbasket without much trouble. tavis: there is an affinity for hell. >> it has nothing to do with the "bat out of hell" record. i have been going around for the past seven or eight years going, the world is going to hell in a handbasket. it comes out of my mouth three times a day. i hear these things on the news and i go, what are you talking

about? the world is going to hell in a handbasket. a typical example is the one that got me the most, a prayer -- 50 years ago, a student graduating wrote this prayer and the put on the wall of this high school and it hung in the same place for 50 years and a girl and her mother decided they did not want a prayer on the wall any more. after 50 years of hanging on the wall, and nobody even sees you any more. it is you walk by and they are invisible. they decided they did not want the prayer. i just said, the world is going to hell in a handbasket because there are a lot more things to worry about than whether there

is a prayer on the wall that has been on the wall for 50 years that you think should come down. there is unemployment, there is this, people in great need, people talking about blowing us up, i am going, there is a lot more things to concentrate on than that. i just keep hearing these things. i am schizophrenic. i watch cnn and i will turn over to chris matthews and watch bill o'reilly. i am a mess. because i have a lot of left and a lot of right. i am in the middle. i am somewhere. i am schizophrenic, completely. and so i think the world -- the

original phrase came from the civil war. and it came from a general, this sounds very southern to me. told his tryst -- troops, we are going into hell in a handbasket. we're going into disaster. i researched because i am researching that. that phrase translated from 17th century england which is a derogatory term, have been in a wheelbarrow. which is a way of telling someone to go to hell. there were not going to tell you to go to hell, they will tell you haven't -- heaven in a wheelbarrow. they were not going to tell you to go to hell. tavis: how does an artist take that and treated artistically? >> -- treat it artistically?

>> there was a band in austria, midnight oil. -- australia, midnight oil. they hit you over the head with a hammer. i do not want to hit you on the head with a hammer. we kind of did it through metaphors. except for the one song, " mad, mad world," if you open your mouth about anything, someone will shoot you down. we have divided ourselves, since i have been alive, i think since 2001, we have divided ourselves to a point where the

division is so great, no one will talk to each other. i could be totally off base, and totally wrong, and people can totally disagree with me. i think that a lot of it comes from the internet where they leave it open for comments. and people with a lot of low self-esteem and a lot of hatred can get in there and hide in the corner. and say these things. when whitney died, i saw her in 1984 in london. i could not speak, that is how good she was and i went backstage, she -- i talked to her about 45 minutes which is the longest conversation i have had with a musician in my life. and i saw her again a couple years ago, i wished her good

luck on her tour and they whisked her away. she passed away, i was upset. it started off, god bless her and i hope her family does well. all the sudden, these comments started to get racist and they started to get -- i went, oh, my god, and i had to turn it off. it happens with adele, when she had her throat problems. people were kind and all the sudden, here they come and they were going, she is fat anyway. and i'm going, oh, my god, these people. where has humanity and compassion gone to? this is the inspiration for

that. where is our humanity, where is our compassion? tavis: if i did not understand your modus operandi, connected to who you are as a person, i am not sure i would -- the world is made of skulls. you can see certain countries. i see different countries but they are made of schools. i am not sure i see humanity. >> there is no humanity. that is the point. there is no humanity and there is no compassion on the cover. lay on the first song to myself open, all of me. to say, you know, i have done things that i should not have done. i am guilty for. and i am telling you, this -- i

am confessing to you. at the same time, in the words of michael caine, he says, whatever role i take and i want people to know and be in my shoes. through my confession, i am hoping that people will understand i have done wrong as well. and then you get into things like giving tree. a gospely kind of number. it is hard to -- i was homeless in l.a. for over a year, trying to break into acting, music, whatever. and i found this great spot in the hollywood hills where no one would bother me, just coyotes. i had a tent and people would

drop me off and the police would not bother me, no one knew i was there and people would pick me up and take me to their house and i would have a shower and they would sneak me back up to the hill. and i was not -- i had people to help me out which was a good thing. so you know, in there i am saying i do not want to go back to sleep on a mattress on my floor. a metaphor again, i want to get back to who i am, who i am mad to be as a person. who god put me on this earth to help my fellow man, to have a kind heart, to be a good person. i want to get back to that. that is what i am saying -- through the record. that is what i am trying to convey. i said this on a tv show in england. i got this comment, he is

blaming the unemployed. what are right wing -- how did he get that out of that? i am not blaming them. no. we want to help. we want people to stand up, to feel good about themselves. we want people to have self- esteem, we want -- having a job makes you feel good. about yourself. it makes you feel worthy of being a human being, taking care family. once you establish that and you have this personal responsibility, you feel good about helping other people. and that is where this album came from. tavis: my sense is to your point, part of what people are struggling with is trying to hold on to their dignity. it is one thing to live in a world as you suggested earlier where your humanity is not affirmed. on top of your humanity not

being affirmed, to hold onto your dignity because you cannot find work, that complicates things. >> that is -- that complicates things way -- i mean, i just, it's like my daughter, she is 31, has been going through it. she finally found a job and all the sudden, a complication arose where this guy was able to get some money and i cannot explain it. the person they wanted to sign was this artist, not a good person and her father was not a good person. and my daughter said, i'm going to quit because i cannot deal with this. i do not know what the exact circumstances are. i know that she was upset about

it. dignity -- and then what goes with the dignity, people lose their compassion. for that. and so, that is what this is about. it is very complicated and it is hard -- we also in the world do not deal with the truth. tavis: that is the understatement of the night. >> martin luther king said -- that is the absolute fact. there is no arguing that. like any actor, any actor who walks and a set, i saw a picture with sean penn. if he did not tell you this, he knows it. when he goes on a set besides what laurence olivier said, when

he walks on the set, he is terrified. you as a character are always searching for the truth. if you cannot find the truth, you cannot find the character. there is not enough truth. tavis: i am always amazed given how well the successful you have been musically, you still to this day have the fifth best- selling album of all time. >> they go between 3 and 5. depends on what you read. if you read "the l.a. times," it is 3. tavis: 3 or 5 top albums of all time in terms of sales. you're acting career took off before the music thing. >> long before. i started in new york in 1969

doing "hair." they gave me $12.50 a week not to do the nude scene, so the audience would be there for the second act. it worked. tavis: you took off from there. >> from "hair," i was lucky. there is luck involved. you have a natural talent but that does not make it your in the right place at the right time. there's a lot of people with unbelievable talent but they're not at the right place at the right time. i was lucky enough and i meant -- met joe papp, who was head of the shakespeare festival. he produced "a chorus line," and

he saw something in me and took me under his wing and he made me the 13th actor ever in history to be on salary full-time at the public theater. i still to this date no -- do not know what it was but he saw something. i did a lot of work for him. i got a lot of pep talks and i was called into his office and he would say, you didn't -- do not know how good you are and you are paranoid and scared. i said you are right. he said, there is no reason for you to be. he kept working with me and doing plays and eventually, i a.s assigned to go out to la.. and my career could have changed and not gone into music because i was cast in "one flew over the

sckoo's next" and there was writer's strike. milos foreman was looking for me. and we have cups at home, that say i see dumb people. there is a cast of people who know me. forman was looking for me, why did not try him in london? i called him at midnight and i was scared to death, with that accent, i was looking for you. he said i cast the part this afternoon. my career would have changed but

i was not meant to do that. i was meant to hook up with jim steinman, he came from joe papp. he had a musical with joe and joe introduced us. i remember going to see -- they hated us. we went into -- we did not do demo tapes of "bat out of hell". we would go into people's offices and sing live with piano and voice. after 10 minutes, they look at you, what the hell are you doing? and "paradise" was 10 minutes long. and clive davis, i did not get along with him for the law this

time because of this. we now -- we are good now. jimmyt into clivve, was like a duck, it rolled off his back. i took it in here and it made me mad. clive davis said to jim, "do you ever listen to rock-and- roll?" he said you are like ethel merman, i think she is fine. they said, you are like robert goulet, that made me mad. i was down, it was 530 in the afternoon at broadway and 57th and i am standing in the middle

of broadway, not on the sidewalk, in the middle of the street, screaming at the top of my lungs. i cannot repeat the language. just -- cabs are honking at me, and i am slapping the cab, going leave me alone. i am screaming at clive davis, after calling me ethel merman and robert goulet. they asked him if he had one h regret and he said yes, not signing meat loaf. tavis: how did you develop that style, rock opera? in 1972, i was put in "

as you like it." >> the most money i had made with $6,500. and i had these patrons of the opera. come to me and offered me $60,000 a year to study for five years and make my debut at the met. i am a tenor, which means i sing as high as a tenor, it does not sound like it. that is all this. i sing the same notes as a tenor,it is big. when someone offers you, you

have made $6,500 and you're working at shakespeare at the park for $87 a week and someone says we will give you $60,000, you go, what? again, i did my research and found i would not do well in that world. i am too rebellious. and i do not like to be told what to do. it is ok to communicate like on a set, directors to actors, but if a director came to me and told me exactly what to do, it would be all over. it would want to make some changes, what you think about trying this? let's go for it. i am the easiest, i am easy. when someone tells me what to do, i do the complete opposite. it is a natural thing. on this record, it is the same protection as always. it is not. this is -- it is not a big

production. not in comparison to the "bat out of hell" records. it is very tame. very small. it is just that my voice is big and takes up a lot of room. kind of like i take up space when i walk in a room. you know how people take up space? >>tavis: you left some room for little john and trace atkins. appreciate as much as i do to have them on there. he said, i cannot believe you want me to do this. i do not look myself in that light. i do not expect anyone to know

who i am or anybody to recognize me. i am a plumber. tavis: when i knew we had a chance to get you on this show, it would be exciting to talk to mr. loaf. the new project is "hell in a handbasket". with more, go to our website at pbs.org. can i call you mr. loaf? called me a real e person on stage. that is our show. until next time, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with

thomas gibson on the success of "criminal minds". that is next time. we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.