from kqed, this is the 2022 california gubernatorial debate. california's governor has vast powers and decisions over the lives of the 40 million residents. governor newsom is running for his second term. the former san francisco mayor was elected governor in 2018 and has led california to fight climate change, and ask tougher gun control and the ban access to abortion services. his challenger, brian dahle, who has served it 10 years in the state legislature in the northeast part of california. he has criticized nuisance policy on the pandemic and says

he wants to help businesses by reducing taxes and cutting government regulations. now they share a stage for the first and only time before voting ends on november 8th. coming to you from kqed headquarters in san francisco, here are your moderators. scott shafer and marissa lagos. >> welcome to the 2022 gubernatorial debate from the california statewide collaborative. over the next hour, we will have a wide-ranging cnversation of the most important issues facing the golden gate without strict time limits, giving candidates plenty of opportunities to interact with each other. thank you so much for being here. >> great to be with you. >> let's get started. >> you are running ads for proposition one on abortion and you are running ads against opposition 30. you got ads in florida and texas taking on republican governors there. with gas prices spiking, homelessness unabated, and people living california because it is too expensive,

what is the case for voters giving you another four years? >> the caisson problem is crystal clear on the contrast with my opponent. he does not support reproductive freedom. does not support reproductive choice regardless of rape, regardless of incest. i've worked with the leaders to get this proposition on the ballot. it works with the values of the state of california area did something that i enthusiastically support. >> what about your record? >> as we speak, we are sending out billions of dollars of inflation checks. sending out $9.5 billion, to be exact. up to $1050 to hard-working californians to address the issues of inflation. the issue of the cost of gas and food and other pressing issues in the state of california. it relates to the broader issues of climate change and the work we've done. we have no peers.

california is leading the way. my opponent has consistently opposed those efforts. you will hear today, unquestionably, about efforts to reinforce big oils talking points and double down on the efforts that put us in this very difficult place as it relates to extreme weather and extreme drought that we are working through in the state of california. but i'm very proud of our record over the course of the last few years and proud of the work we have done two seed reforms into the future. very proud of the efforts we are making as it relates to these initiatives, as well. >> senator dahle, many of the proposition to support are out of line with the majority of californians. abortion, gun control, lgbt rights. why should the majority of californians give you a chance of they do disagree with you on these fundamental issues? >> first off, i want to thank you for putting this debate ogether and start out by thanking the governor for taking time out of his going

forward on his dream of being president of the united states and coming to california and having a debate. i really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to focus on the issues that we just talked about here in california. first the governor talks about climate change and he talks about issues that are happening in california. there's nobody that cares more about the climate than myself. i am a farmer. i'm into human with the climate every day. it's changing, no doubt. but the policies that he has put forth are not actually doing anything to help the climate. he's driving up the cost of gasoline and electricity. by the way, californians pay 70% higher electricity rates than across the nation. $2.5 higher per gallon of gasoline. the state of hawaii, which has no oil wells. >> yet the climate package and positions have been very popular with voters. >> i don't know if he's been out on the street or if you've been out on the street talking to people who cannot afford to

live in california but people are fleeing california because úthey cannot afford to live here. he's driving up the cost of everything california. i get calls my office every day hard-working californians. just yesterday i was at the gas pump and a lady put $2.37 worth of gas in her car. a third of a gallon of gas. governor newsom probably does not care about the folks you have to pay these high rate. californians are suffering and fleeing and going to other states while he is campaigning nationally to expand on his dream. californians are suffering. >> we will get to gas prices. >> i would love to pick up a little bit. every single instance you have opposed commonsense effort to address the issue of climate change. you've opposed our climate package. you continue to double down on talking points of the big oil companies. you consistently vote against efforts to address the underlying issue that we are trying to address. it's not only in the state of california but across the country and around the world

the hots are getting hotter. the drives are getting drier. we have atmospheric rivers. we have unprecedented extremes leaving us in a position where we are dealing with unprecedented drought and wildfire. you consistently vote against common sense efforts to address those issues including, by the way, voting against $2.7 billion to address the issue of wildfire prevention, vegetation management. you have consistently opposed, including rebate checks, efforts to provide relief for gas and doubled down on the talking points of big oil. you know why? big oil is supporting your campaign. the hundreds of thousands of dollars that you have received is not only because he double down on the talking points, but you consistently opposed efforts, including the latest effor to go after price gouging. they are ripping us off and there ripping you off and they are ripping everyone of us off and we are going after these companies and we are getting serious about the stress and pain californians their face.

>> the governor talks about ripping people off. i've not received one cent for my campaign from anybody in the pro-life movement or from oil in this campaign. not one cent. the governor wants to talk about climate change. global warming is the issue. we are exporting jobs and our environments out of california to places like china. they are making coal-fired power plants every three weeks. governor newsom talks about the reality of climate change. i presented a bill a couple years ago to count carbon from forest fires. in california, we don't even count emissions from forest fires. every day, he is regulating combustible engines and driving up the cost of energy in california. california -- i have nothing to do with big oil. they have not supported my campaign. the governor is focused on his message to america. californians are fleeing california for one reason.

because they cannot afford to live here. he is out of touch with you every day hard-working middle- class californians. his elite friends can afford teslas at $70,000. the californians on the whole have no opportunity but to just suffer on the policies that he has but are. >> he has repeatedly referred to you as being out-of-state. i want to say clearly, you are asking for four more years. are you committed for former? >> yes. i was out of the state for a few hours to take on his party. with donald trump and how they are attacking democracy, women's right to choose, books, this is a serious moment in american history and californian history. they are demeaning the lgbtq community. i've had enough. i will stand up. what you do not do is stand up to big oil and these interests. we don't, by the way. it is interesting. i love all this energy stuff.

they pay higher electricity bills in texas, florida, indiana, then in the state of california. we have seen energy costs go to the roof in those states. they're doubling down on stupid, on-call and nuclear. i say in the context not of our diablo canyon extension but on old fossil policies including gas, that are actually creating the problems we are trying to solve. california has moved in a different direction. we now have six times more cleantech jobs and clean jobs and redo fossil fuel jobs. this is the next great opportunity of economic benefit for californians and americans. we want to seize on that opportunity. we are not interested in outsourcing those jobs. we want to dominate. >> i want to be clear, that's a yes on former years? >> yes. >> senator dahle, simple question. did joe biden legitimately win the election against donald trump? >> he did win the election. but the big question is does he know that? that's what i wonder sometimes.

>> he being who? >> joe biden. >> what do you mean by that? >> yes. i agree that he won the election but i wonder sometimes if he actually realizes that he is president of the united dates. >> of course he recognizes. you are insulting the president. of course he understands he is president of the united states. >> i want to talk about doubling down on stupid area that's telling people that they're going to be forced into an electric car and two days later saying that you cannot charge her car. the policies that this governor has put forward do not work in california. californians are suffering from the cost of living in california. crime is rampant. another governor talks about all this national stuff. he wants to talk about a president that is not even in office. he wants to talk about our party and everything but the fact of what i see and hear every down the street. californians are suffering because of your policies. i know that your friends and the people you run with don't actually -- they can afford to live in california. but the every day hard-working

middle-class californian, governor, is suffering from the policies you put forward rid at the same time, we have no water. we have no electricity. we have no plan. there is no plan. just throw money at it. you've had more money in the time you've been in office then there has ever been in california. people are fleeing california. those of the fact. i know you don't want to recognize that. and you want to talk about all of these national issues because you cannot talk about the fact. californians are suffering because of high inflation and the policies that you have before. >> ella vaughn is suffering from high inflation. that's why we provided $18.5 billion in tax rebates, which you opposed. you opposed $9.5 billion of rebates that are going out right now to help offset these inflationary costs. >> that's not true. i opposed -- >> i supported that. you need to go look at the record. i actually supported that. >> that's not true.

>> let's ask a slightly different question. you called your fellow republicans for a gas tax holiday to get rid of the $.50 gas tax. there is no guarantee that will end up in the pockets of consumers. how do you propose the state ring down the gas price in a meaningful way for consumers? >> this 1200 oil wells sitting at the desk of the governor waiting to be in california. he prefers not to get those permits out. >> what you have called for a gas tax holiday. >> is the fastest way you can drive down inflation. i own a trucking business. in the last eight months because of the governor's policy, it costs $200 a day to put diesel in the truck. $1000 a week. $4000 per month. drives up the cost of a gallon of milk and a dozen eggs for every hard-working californian. if you lower that across the board it lowers the food. not only the gas you put in your tank. those of the policies we put forward. we had the budget to backfill and take care of the high was in california. we should have done that. it would give california families about a $1700 rebate a year ago. >> how do you guarantee that if the tax goes away that it's actually going to go to

consumers and not just of the oil companies? >> you make sure it is dropped at the pump. >> how? >> how do you ensure that? they are private companies. they don't have any obligation. >> the biggest tax in california, the biggest profiteer is the government. $.54 is the highway tax. all government taxes is $1.42 per gallon. >> so you want to take all of those? >> no, i am just saying if you drop the tax, when people need food and put gas in the car, then it goes to actually lowering the price. >> how do you force them? >> make sure that they do it. through their taxes that we push down. >> governor -- >> me i just -- this is a talking point from the right. we have seen other states move with the gas tax reductions.

we have not seen the reduction because there is no guarantee. it's more money in the pocket of big oil companies. everything he said is literally stripped and ripped from the talking points that big oil provides to him and his colleagues. let me finish. it's two dollars that we were paying. upwards of $2.60 more than the national average because these companies are ripping you off and ripping us off. that's why i want to move forward with a price gouging penalty to address this abuse, period, full stop. you have five refiners that represent 97% of the industry. record profits. 26 alien dollars. just last quarter, 276% increase. chevron corporation alone is funding your campaign and the campaign of others like you. but let me be very clear. this whole idea that a gas tax somehow is going to provide relief as you've suggested in your questioning has been attributed, not just by the

examples of other states, but by leading economists that say it's nothing more than a >>. these rebate checks were providing -- and what i just did , this was important -- a $.65 reduction since peak in the last few weeks because we are out of the winter blend through the air resources board. and we have seen gas prices go down in the state of california without a gas tax repeal. >> your calling for a special session of legislature to enact windfall profits tax. that would be after the election. december 5th, when the new legislature comes in. we have seen the legislation. there's no details. there was a similar outfit and assembly that died this year. how do we know this is not a gimmick on your part? >> we are working with legislative leaders and working to make sure that we get it right. we are reviewing what has happened in other countries that are pursuing similar policies. different and novel strategies

here in the united states. there have been leaders across the country that have promoted similar efforts and we are looking at unique characteristics with a deeper dive of what is driving these prices in california. úthere is whatsoever for these outrageous , you serious costs in the state of california. $1.42, that is nonsense. that's inaccurate. there's an increase in environmental rules and regulation. he wants to roll them all back. there is an increase in terms of those costs, but it nowhere near the $2.60 above average that we were paying a few weeks ago. today, it's $1.97. the reality is they are ripping you off and taking advantage. we are working with legislators to get this right. it's never been done at the state level. we want to do it right. it's the first day back in session on december 5th. we need to mean business. we will be publishing and

introducing that legislation very very shortly. we will have ample chance to review it. and i hope, brian, that you support the effort rid >> raster audience and partner stations what they wanted to ask you both. we received over 200 questions. a lot of these topics we are talking about today. gas prices, homelessness, water, did help shape what we are asking you. we also got a question from the central valley for you, governor. as the state moves to phase out fossil fuels, what are you doing to make sure that places that rely heavily on oil for the economy are not being left behind? what do you say to workers who are worried about their ability to continue making a living? >> we do not believe in a just transition rhetorically. we put $600 million in this year's budget. my opponent opposed that $600 million allocation to create a framework to provide support and economic opportunities in that region. we modeled it after something called fresno drive, which we launched a few years ago.

around the current county area in bakersfield, and novel strategy to build partnerships. public private partnerships and public public partnerships. we added the $600 million appropriation so that we can drive a different conversation about what the world looks like in a post-oil future. >> talk about where that money goes. >> it goes to model programs like the fresno drive. the reason i bring that up, it is a model example of partnerships between the universities and the private sector and local and regional, as well as state agencies to drive a new economic and workforce vision for the region. it was such a success that we put those resources up and we want to see those resources invested area that said, i'm also very proud to see the transitioning already as one of the world's leaders of renewable energy because of our policies. the policy has been an accelerator of providing unprecedented and investments in the state. let me be specific.

there are 200 green energy companies specifically targeting zero electric vehicles. 43 manufacturers already in the state of california. it's $1 trillion industry and we are going to dominate this industry. against all of the council and efforts to undermine the transition. we saw 18%. 17.7% of californians purchasing electric vehicles. we know this works. the strategies and policies work to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions. we also know they work to accelerate our economic growth and development in the state of california. >> i would like to respond. >> sure. >> the governor talks really slick and smooth about all these processes. $100 billion in surplus revenue. what he's done in the last four

years is throw money at every single issue, more than there's ever been. and what are the results for californians? higher gas prices, inflation, homelessness on the streets. our schools are failing our children and people are fleeing california. i just want listeners to understand that he's very good at talking about numbers and all these things he's doing. at the end of the day, you cannot turn the water on in california. electricity prices are 20% higher this year than they were last year in california. and people are fleeing california because of the policies. he wants to demonize the party that i represent and he wants to talk about those issues. at the end of the day, he is failing california and californians know it read every day, californians understand what is happening here in california. the governor is focused on running for president and he is going to leave california just like you left san francisco, with homeless people all over the street, when he said he was going to solve those issues. >> senator dahle, a question

about labor. we have some of the strongest protections for workers in the nation. the fifth largest economy in the world you have consistently voted against protections for voters. as governor, which labor protections would you move to get rid of? >> actually just want people to have a relationship with her work horse. actually employ people. i don't need a union representing my employees. we have a great relationship. the governor is really good at getting a lot of campaign contributions from these unions that support him like california teachers association , where we saw they did everything to keep our kids out of school and lock our parents or they were making sure to fund his campaign. he follows those unions for labor. i want there to be a free market between the owners of the companies and their employees. that's good in california. we have more labor laws. california labor, people that work for other businesses are leaving california because they cannot afford to live here. there dollar goes further in other states. california has 400,000

regulations. more than any other state in the nation. the closest state is new york with 300,000. there is 1000 bels per year that get through to the governor's desk. california is overregulated and overtaxed and overpriced. people can't afford to live here. >> just got to keep unpacking. there's a series of talking points. redundancy in terms of talking points from my opponent. let me unpack on the issue of the economy. california has no peers. the sale of california. regret 5.7% gdp. created 569,000 jobs and just this week -- my opponent will not bring it up, but i will. once again, the lowest recorded unemployment in california history. yes, we had a $101.4 billion operating surplus because of the entrepreneurial spirit, energy, and innovation that is alive and well in the state of california. our approach and strategies about growth and inclusion.

talk about the issue of worker protections, giving voice to laborers. we believe in more voice, more choice, and we believe we have to do a better job addressing the issue of our time outside of the existential issue of climate change. that is the wealth and income gaps in the state and i will tell you what, i could not be more proud of the fact that we received recognition. it's not an assertion. recognition from a bipartisan national education group for our unprecedented education reforms. continue to push down return to do with education. not surprisingly because you oppose universal preschool. we have fully funded it. you opposed the 3.5 million and billion dollars that we put in to retain and support professional development for teachers. you opposed after school for all. you oppose summer school for all. you opposed nine hour days and

reimagining the school day. you opposed consistently all of these efforts, all of these reforms to give parents choices and to give kids a much more robust and comprehensive education. we have seen transformative reforms and i could not be more proud of those efforts despite your consistent opposition and that of your colleagues. >> a quick response and then i want to move on. >> 300 companies headquarters left california under his watch in the last few years. these are companies like tesla, oracle, hp leaving california under his watch. he wants to talk about business in california. they are fleeing. let's talk about education for a minute. all these programs, yes, there is more money in our education system then there has ever been. that's a fact because of prop 98. 50,000 students did not show up for school the first day at l.a. unified school district this year. why is that? the policies that you are pushing forward a portion kids and parents away from the public school system because it is not teaching our children the things they need like, you

know, curriculum. abcs. we are getting all kinds of other social stuff that is being shoved onto her children and parents are leaving our system. that's a fact. he throws money at everything. but every day, californians and parents understand that they want the education for the children. it's not about money. it's about the policies and what scores we are getting. they're plummeting in california. the education system is 70% of kids cannot read it grade level. that's due to the fact of the teachers association and your policies. >> i take offense at our policies and strategies. what you identified are problems. we are identifying solutions every single day. tutoring, reading specialists. high poverty schools providing more staff. changing staff ratios. community schools. the investments we are making afterschool that we know work.

preschool to allow people the opportunity to have the early start in life. all things you have consistently opposed. and we know these policies work. >> the governor -- governor, can i -- >> we just made these investments in the last two years. i cannot make up for the 10 years you've been on the legislature but i can talk about the last three or four years as governor of california. there has never been investments targeted that address these issues like the ones we are making. i have confidence they're going to work. and i have confidence that you will continue to oppose all of these commonsense reforms. >> governor, it's true there has been a huge investment in public education and yet still huge challenges. teacher shortages, teacher burnout., is leaving public schools. you have chosen to put your kids in private schools. obviously, there's a lot of things that go into a family decision like that. what do you say to parents who wonder if you have faith in our public schools, given that arsenal decision?

>> i am passionate about public education. i am a product of public education. my kids are going to school right behind our house, which is about creativity and critical thinking. the kinds of things we are advancing in our education system. the approach we have taken is to provide the same kind of choice and opportunity that my kids were reported for every single one of our six plus million californians going to public school. this year, we did something that no other jurisdiction has done. that was provided college savings accounts for 3.4 million incoming kindergartners. $1.9 billion investment. we put a partnership for achievement with our higher education system. we not only provide a community college for free, we have new attainment goals and we are lowering the cost of tuition and attendance. our higher education system from community college and the k-12 education system. we are on the precipice of order of magnitude reform. again, not one of these efforts was supported by my opponent. >> let's move along. >> i want to talk about

education. actually put my two older sons through public education. but i have my daughter in private education because you and i both know that the better education is a private education because our schools are failing. no matter how much money he throws it every single issue in the state, by the way. it does not matter -- >> we want to get to those issues and we want to talk about homelessness. >> our system is failing our students. parents know it. they're leaving our system. no doubt they are. >> you can tell a lie as much as you want. people are walking with their feet. they know. does not matter how many times you say it. does not mean it's true. california parents are leaving our education system because it is so poor. and it's not been fixed under your watch or the watch before. you want to blame anybody. you cannot blame republicans. republicans have not been in control of california for the past 10 years. >> i blame you for not having one imaginative idea except for those provided by the public education system. anything that we know it. that's what you've promoted. that's what we are for.

we've been identifying solutions and strategies. >> and the result is still the same. zero. >> there is obviously a lot to talk about. let's move along. you oppose abortion. the senator would have veto power. this year, california's budget includes $200 million in reproductive rights and protecting access to abortion. if you were governor, would you move that sort of spending at the legislature puts it in the budget? >> first of all, yes, i am pro- life, number one. number two, i want to talk about prop one. he brought that out in the opening statement. the question is about the budget. just to be clear. >> the governor put $200 million to pay for abortions from people from out of our state to come here. the law today is six months. you can have an abortion up to six months. the governor proposed prop one and the legislature put on the ballot to expand abortion to the minute before birth. that's what it would be in

california. at the same time, he wants to make this a sanctuary state where all americans can come here and get an abortion at the expense of california taxpayers. i know that is a great platform when you are running for the president of the united states, but here in california, people are struggling. i would absolutely take that out of the budget. >> that was 200 million for reproductive services, though. that was not her out-of-state travel. >> i will absolutely fund reproductive services. i'm not going to find out-of- state abortions. >> what about in-state abortions? >> yes. i am pro-life. reproductive services, absolutely. >> you will take out of the budget and he help with seeking abortion? >> no governor has full control of the budget. he has to work with the legislature. i will work with the legislature to put a budget together that will work for californians? >> would you allow abortion funding in a budget you've signed? >> if that's what it takes to get the deal done, i will sign a budget that i worked out with the legislature. >> with respect to you are not

pro-life. you are pro-government mandated birth. if you are pro-life, you would support these efforts to provide support for childcare and preschool and prenatal programs. you have consistently opposed these programs. we believe in reproductive freedom. we believe in reproductive care . california's values are well- established. we want to codify them under prop one in the constitution. i was proud to support and promote a budget of $200 million to reduce co-pays and access to reproductive care. and we are not embarrassed and we don't apologize for having the backs of women and girls all across this country that are fleeing persecution and the kind of extreme policies that you are promoting. and let me just close on that. what my opponent believes is that a 10-year-old who is raped by her father should be forced

to bear her brother or sister. this position is extreme. that is something that i hope the people of the state of california will consider when they go vote this november. >> governor, i want to change topics to something that has been mentioned, which is water. >> i want to respond to that. he talks about extreme. extreme is not ever having a conversation. your party just put on the ballot that californians will decide whether prop one extends the life of abortion to the minute before birth -- >> to be clear, you are saying that could possibly allow that, but there is nothing in there to say that they're changing the viability limit, which is the statute right now. >> correct. >> we don't get the opportunity to have a conversation. it is all or nothing. that's what you want to happen under this prop one. the people will choose. we will know november 8th where they're going to be. >> we know where you stand and

we know your opposition has been demonstrable. about $20,000. >> i did not put any money. >> that's not true. prove it. >> people will have the opportunity to adjudicate different points of view. we are proud. >> we're going to try to move along. >> we are in the fourth year of the drought. unlike governor brown, governor newson, you have not issued an executive order mandating statewide restrictions on water use. you are leaving it to local water districts to make our decisions. it does not seem to be working. in fact, the state water board's conservation manager recently quit, accusing your administration of, quote, a gutwrenching unwillingness to take steps to reduce water use. the question is, why have you not been more aggressive in ordering water conservation? >> we have. 436 agencies have. >> that's a lot of mixed messages. >> only. just the opposite. d 12 to 2016, we put out a

conference report and provided it to my opponent in the legislature. lessons learned from the drought. one of the principal lessons learned is it is different in every region of the state. the water agencies requested a basis of deeper understanding. we provide flexibility. what they refer to as level two plans. 436 water agencies move forward with that mandate of mandates. with an 11% reduction in that use. comprehensive detail plan as it relates not just a water conservation but a framework of abundance to invest $8.8 billion on new strategies and approaches to create more water. wastewater, stormwater, diversion efforts and the like. >> why not as governor use your authority to give a sense of urgency? >> what was the point of an after action report that analyzed the best practices of the previous drought and made a

recommendation not to do one- size-fits-all as it relates to mandate where the conditions of riverside county are completely different than the conditions here in san francisco county. that is why we moved forward with the flexibility that was recommended in that plan. and it has proven successful. 11% reductions. the differentiation between regions now affords new strategies. it's consistent again with what was promoted. >> clearly, these local water agencies are not all getting the message. >> most are. i want to applaud californians. 11% reduction. >> is that enough? >> we have to do more. but i will say this, we came into the drug using per capita 16% less water use then we went into the last drought. here's what i believe, and this is important. it's not just a mindset of scarcity. it's also about creating more water. that's what our specific strategy set forth in the water plan. we have 37 desalinization plans

in the state and we want more. we are promoting different strategies on groundwater capture and different strategies specific on storage. belowground, not just aboveground storage. we have invested, despite my opponent's opposition, $8.8 billion to advance this cause. unprecedented general fund support and consistent with his previous record on topics that we've discussed today, he opposes those investments. >> number one, this guy, i supported proposition one in 2014, which was a water bond. $2.7 billion to build the reservoir. we have doubled our population in the last 30 years. we have not increased our water supply. we only have rationed. i want to talk about the facts. i represent -- my district represents 60% of california's water. schossler, orville, and fulsome all in my district.

2018 was the wettest year recorded in the history of our state since we've been keeping records. the orville spillway broke because we had so much water in california. we need to capture that water and save it for the times when we don't have water like right now. that is the goal. the governor talks about it. he talks about rationing and all of these things. money, throwing it out. but what's the result? what do we actually achieve? we've had $2.7 billion to build the reservoir, which environmentalists love. municipalities love. farmers love. talk is cheap, governor. you've got to perform. you throw money at it, you get no result. your policies don't end up with results. we have to suffer a constant state of crisis under your leadership. your leadership has not solved one problem. we have fires that you haven't solved.

storage that you haven't solved. electricity that you haven't solved. all those things that you talk about and what are the results? zero. californians are suffering with the cost of living and rationing and all of those things. californians, we can have a california dream and make it a reality if we had a change in leadership. >> so much distortion. first of all, proposition one, which i supported my correct, was it $2.5 million? it's gone to seven specific projects. sites alone is a $3.9 billion dam. >> we just finished that project, governor. >> forgive me., let me -- >> i'm not going to forgive you. it's the facts. >> $3.9 billion plan, of which we have utilized from proposition one $875 million. there are six other project. for belowground and three aboveground that are also part of that. everybody recognized when the

promoted the policy and bond that we needed to leverage private sector money and federal money. that's exactly what we are doing. we got $30 million from the biden administration last week and we are working against the advice and counsel and support of your party to get $2.2 billion from the infrastructure bill that the biden administration passed for low interest loans. i take umbrage with your notion that we have not laid out a specific detailed strategy and plan. we have. you've opposed that plan and opposed the $8.8 billion appropriation in that plan and you consistently oppose our efforts on wildfire suppression and prevention. consistently opposed our efforts across a myriad of issues. you are just laying out talking points, but no substance. form and substance, only a fog in terms of the delusion and

reality of facts that you are promoting here today on these critical topics for the people of the state of the california. >> senator, a response. >> the delusion of facts, he keeps talking about the party you represent. the party hasn't had control in this state for almost 30 years, governor. where all these problems not fixed? because your policies are horrible. californians know it. at the end of the day, you talk and throw money. californians are suffering. you haven't solved the problem. name one thing you've solved. >> highest reserves in california history. >> $4.5 billion last year. >> there is an opportunity to answer the question or just oppose the response? i would like to continue her family and forgive me. if i may. >> it is want to make sure we have time to talk about homelessness. >> i am proud of the fact that the state of california is providing free meals for those who are food insecure in the state of california against his opposition. the proud to be the first date in american history to provide universal health access. the first state in american history despite his opposition.

pension obligation. one of the fastest-growing economies in america. proud of the fact that we have a wildfire forest resilience strategy and drought strategy. proud of the fact that we have real concrete plans on issues of homelessness. >> let's talk about that. >> mr. dahle, on all of these, you have consistently oppose those efforts. >> i want to push on homelessness. it's fair to say that the state has done more to address this in the last four years and virtually ever before. the virtual issues of encampment, homelessness, street behavior, drug use appears to be worse than ever and many places around the state. what do you say to voters who feel like this is not getting better? >> they are not. it's an outrage. it's unconscionable what has been happening. accountability plans. i have 75 accountability plans. we're not going to just hand out money any longer. local governments can produce real results. encampment grants to address the issues of encampments. we are providing new tales tools. of course, my opponent oppose

the funding. honky and ricky have allowed us to get 68,000 people off the streets. 12,500 new units have been procured in the last number of months. >> are more people becoming homeless, do you believe? >> with all of the headwinds of covid, there was a laissez- faire attitude in terms of addressing what was on the streets and sidewalks. you're right. the premise to your question is accurate. there was no homeless strategy. no plan. the resources of any merit. today, $15.3 billion. real strategy, real plan, accountability for the first time. all that, all of that opposed by my opponent consistently. nowhere to be found. his entire policy for homelessness is some policy of, well, we will just do an audit. i've been around long enough to know that when someone's response is an audit, they don't have a response.

>> you have been very critical of the governor's response to homelessness. i noticed that last week you joined republican colleagues to call on the legislature to declare a state of emergency and man encampments within 1000 yards of sensitive areas. would that help? >> it would help children going to school be able to be free and get to safety get to school where there's not a homeless camper in the schools. but i want to talk about the homeless for a minute. there's a theme here. the government, the governor talks about my party and all of this. what are the results? exactly. spent 20 billion dollars. $75,000 for homeless person and we have 22,000 more. it's growing. we know the number. 22,000 more. the team theme of this debate is that the governor has all of this talk, but the policies don't actually fix the problem. i was a county supervisor for 16 years. he said in 2003 when he was the mayor of san francisco that he

was going to end homelessness. i just drove down the street here today stepping over people defecating on the street and needles. he has not fixed it. >> what is he not doing that the state is doing a? >> 75% of people who are homeless are addicted to drugs. i would make fentanyl a state of emergency to tackle fentanyl. 5700 people died from fentanyl in california. twice the amount of people in the city. >> what would a state of emergency do? i want to understand. >> it would focus on the fact that fentanyl is an issue. people are addicted. we need to get them off of drugs. that's the first thing you do. get them off of drugs. you fund the counties with mental health programs that they need and the clinicians. the housing cost in california, those of the things that would need to happen to take care of homelessness. >> he did promise -- >> rev $11.6 billion of investments on mental health. rapid rehousing for mental health that we have just now put up and put out. the next few years, we will see results of his efforts. but you've consistently oppose

them. state of emergency and then we will magically solve fentanyl? that's what my opponent just said somehow it will magically disappear on the basis of a state of emergence the. that he will somehow adopt a secret strategy that will absolve any deep accountability for the fact that he is consistently oppose our efforts to address fentanyl. let me be more specific. even oppose the budget that we just advanced. $7.9 million to 25 new people to create a new criminal investigations unit. you opposed the national guard, of which we have 100 on the border addressing fentanyl. and you know it? you should know this. you are unaware of this. or 10,000 pounds of fentanyl, we have gotten off the street. to 38 search warrants we provided in the last year. 238 percent increase over the previous years because of our efforts of the previous years. we put out a strategy not just on addiction, which you oppose,

but as it relates to fentanyl and opioid abuse, which you oppose. a strategic plan with 40 state agencies and nonprofit partners. you oppose the funding for that. focuses on treatment and prevention. strategies for managing pain. he proposed all of those things. >> okay. >> senator, a quick response. >> of opposed his budget because he spends money with no results. all the things he talks about don't ever root achieve results. he's talking about fentanyl and all these things walking down the street. just asking, walking down the street, you know the difference , that this governor is really smooth and talking. at the end of the day, he delivers zero. >> if you are elected governor, the legislature is likely to remain in democratic hands. there are some things that a republican governor could do. governor newson, for example, a

moratorium on executions. there are 36 people on death row have exhausted their legal appeals and will be eligible for execution. with you and the moratorium and allow those fusions to go forward? >> how and when? how is that with your pro-life position? i'm curious. >> have committed a crime against other people. a jury has chosen, then i support the death penalty. >> what you had qualms about 36 people being executed on your watch? >> i don't know that they're going to be executed under my watch. but if the courts have held them up to be in for life, but it would be for life and they will face the death penalty. >> want to ask the governor about proposition 47. 2014 ballot measure that has become a real political lightning rod in california. it made possessions of small amounts of drugs and misdemeanor and made it more difficult to charge someone with felony theft. law enforcement and republicans often blame this ballot measure for an increase in shoplifting. i think the data is very mixed.

there has been no proof that it is increased. violent crime, your administration says it has saved taxpayers $161 million this year. i wonder if you have any regrets about supporting prop 47 or support any changes to it? >> the natives don't fit the facts. we are average in terms of that threshold. there are 30 states. 30 states that have the same or higher threshold. the reality, the end of the day is that they have used it as a scapegoat. they oppose all of these criminal justice reform efforts. he has consistently opposed all of these reform efforts. we believe in common sense criminal justice reform. the reality is that he also opposed our crime reduction plan. $758 million investment that included 1000 new officers, which you opposed. $55 million to address their wellness and mental health, which you oppose. $200 million for and prevention, evidence-based crime

prevention strategies and the grants for strategies, which you opposed. we've put out detailed strategies to address this issue, and the issue remains a vexing issue. but prop 47 is not the culprit. it's not the reason why. we've seen an increase in crime in the state or the country. as you know, when it comes to the murder rate, eight of the top 10 states with the highest murder rates are republican-led state. 40% per capita higher in the states that donald trump won area this is an issue that has no political jurisdiction. the realities are real. we need to own up to them. put out strategies and plans. tried and true strategies of the far right to scapegoat a reform that cannot directly be connected to these. >> senator dahle, you oppose 47. >> absolutely. murder has gone up and the last

two years in california. gavin newsom let out 30,000 prisoners out of prison. that's a fact. >> i have no authority to let anyone out. that's not a fact. >> she did support the safe neighborhood and schools act, which allows you to rape an unconscious woman and a not a violent time in california. >> if you only get that as an enhancement but not an underlying rape charge. >> we actually brought a bill together to make the sex traffic of a woman and the rape of an unconscious woman a felony. his office killed the bill. >> will you support the recommendations, including monetary payments when the task force finishes? >> i want to see that recommendations. by definition, we created the work group to adjudicate the merits of different strategies. what i have done is supported what i think are very common

sense strategies, including the reparation that we did advance. a family that was denied their inheritance. a business taken away by the city council in santa monica years and years ago. they point of deep pride that we moved to right that wrong. this task horse is convening. we will see whether the recommendations come out and we will make a determination as to the facts. >> actually support the reparation study as well, and i supported the bruce's beach legislation. >> we found one thing that you to agree on. >> those things are wrong and we made it right. >> we are short on time. we want to ask you a question that is a little bit of a curveball. governor, let's start with you. name a time in your life you were wrong about something and did a complete about-face. how did you realize your mistake and what did you do to remedy it and make sure it

would not happen again? >> there's a myriad of issues without the case. look. mistakes are a portal of discovery. i have a failure award in businesses that i start up and one of the great prize of my life is starting a business right out of college. putting pen to paper and creating roughly 1000 jobs at the root one of the things i always encouraged was initiative. risk-taking, not restlessness. if we make a mistake, we learn and try not to repeat it. let me be specific. over the course of my life, personally, professionally, in every way, shape and form, i have been iterative but there are things that i learned from that did not turn out to be as clear as i had hoped. or consequences that turned out to actually to produce the results as intended. dozens of them. perhaps one of the most significant ones, i have a significant learning disability. i cannot read or write and those doing speech therapy as a kid. i thought that i was dumb. i made the mistake of falling prey to that. back of the classroom, not

raising my hand. feeling of the van, feeling lesser than. that's why i don't like bullies. i don't like cruelty. i don't like people that humiliate other people. and i learned i wasn't that person. i will tell you that is the most profound mistake i made early in my life and that i did not, did not learn quickly enough that all of us are unique, all of us have a unique expression, and all of us deserve dignity and respect. as a young child i did not fully embrace or understand that. that was a mistake. >> senator dahle, name a time that you are on about something and did an about-face. >> have made many mistakes in my life. i'm human. we'll make lots of mistakes. i've heard other people in just the perspective of not understanding the full issue. when i was in the board of supervisors, i worked with the quincy library group and environmentalist. i learned a lot about things i didn't know.

and has helped me expand my ability to be able to be very sensitive to the environment and what people think about their perspective in life. having this preconceived notions of the way somebody was is something that i learned. >> can you give us something specific? you talk about in their mentalism. water issues as a part of that. but is there something that you changed your mind about? perhaps a farm and fished a bit. >> learned a lot from my friends and environment the community and took those approaches to actually educate legislators. i've had 127 legislators out to my district over the 10 years i've been in sacramento, educating them that one size does not fit all. i invited the governor to come fishing with me. he did not take me up on it. but i believe in working together and getting things done with people and listening more and understanding that

there's two sides to every story. and when you find out the other side, you can have more compassion, understand, and learn from it. what have you learned from democrats that the montier district? >> the main thing is that we have a lot in common. reduce sawyer represents usc compton. he came to my district and learned about were his water comes from. i went to his and we both find out that we have for people in our communities. has four people are black young men. i have native american young men in my community. a very high suicide rate for young men ages 18 to 25 are native american. our policies when it comes to law enforcement and crime are way different. but that's what i've done in the legislature over years. finding things we can work on and the things that we disagree on. something in the parking lot to move california in the right direction. >> think you might go fishing after this? you guys did agree on one thing. >> will want to be respected and connected in some way, shape, or form. we'll want to love and be

loved. we are on a journey together. i appreciate it. it's a nice way to end this debate. i think we will have to find these commonalities into the future. regardless of this debate. the debates are being held across the dinner table. thanksgiving soon, as it relates to which country or state. at the end of the day, we have rings fundamentally in common. those are the things we should be focused on. it's my pledge to look forward to working with you. hopefully, been successful and continuing in the role of governor of california, defining that agenda in those areas of commonality as we move forward together. >> senator, you, as well. >> i just want to say things to the governor for the debate. i want to say to californians, if you like what you're getting for the last four years, stick with him. if you like change and you want to go in a direction where we can make that dream a reality, the california dream, stick with it. >> all right. governor got the first word. senator got the last one. thank you to both candidates.

>> thank you to listeners and viewers for tuning in and our partner stations who helped make it all possible. >> for more facts and context about all the races and contests on the ballot. visit kqed.org . election day is november 8th. register to vote and make sure your voice is heard. for now i am marisa lagos. >> i am scott shafer. for kqed, thanks for joining us.

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