>> former president trump's chilling threat amid mounting legal challenges. >> the president's rhetoric, it is dangerous and if he kicks it up, he is going to get someone killed. >> democratic outrage after former president donald trump issued an ominous warning in response to a possible historic indictment. >> if they can do it to a president, they can do it to anybody and they are. >> house republicans rushed to defend him as new developments emerge in multiple probes io the former president. plus. >> i don't know how to spell it. you can call me whatever you want as long as you call me a winner. >> one of trump's rivals for the gop presidential nomination takes aim at him for the first time next. >> this is wa-- this is

"washington week." >> for 25 years consumer cellular's goal is to provide wireless service that helps people communicate and connect. we offer no contract plans and our customer service team can help find one that fits you. to learn more, visit consumer cellular.tv. >> additional funding is provided by -- >> the ewing foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. sandra and karl magnuson, rose hirschel, robert and susan rosenbaum. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ >> good evening and welcome to "washington week." former president donald trump's legal troubles escalated this week with significant developments in two of four criminal cases against him.

on friday trump threatened "potential death and destruction" if he is indicted by the manhattan district attorney. that office is investigating his alleged hush money payment to adult film star stormy daniels during the 2016 presidential campaign. in it was his most explicit call to violence yet. and it sparked swift criticism from democrats. >> we have already seen the consequences of incitement from the former president. he is principally responsible for inciting the violent insurrection that happened on january 6th but clearly he has not learned his lesson. >> at least one top republican, majority leader steve scalise, said "there is no place in america for political violence of any kind." this comes a federal judge pierced attorney-client privilege between trump and his defense attorney in a separate

investigatn into classified documents found at mar-a-lago. today corcoran testified. he was also ordered to turn over his notes and transcripts of audio recordings. in addition to these probes, trump is being investigated by the justice department and fulton county, georgia, for his efforts to subvert the 2020 election. if indicted in any of these cases it would be the first for former president. joining me to discuss this and more, deadline -- a reporter at "the washington post." and joining me in the studio, the managing ater of punch bowl news. eugene daniels, white house correspondent and author of political's playbook and heinz nichols, a political reporter at axios. i want to start with you because one of the most significant developments was in the classified documents case is investigating. essentially what happened the judge totally blasted through

attorney-client privilege. what does that mean? >> so, it means that one of the people closest to donald trump and one of the people who knows the most about the events that followed a government subpoena demanding the return of classified documents walked into the grand jury today and provided testimony. we don't know what the answers were or how contentious those question and answer sessions were this is something that trump and his lawyers try to avoid but they lost at appeals court level. and so trump's lawyer was called into the grand jury to testify. and that is a big step. and it is really, another example of how the documents, the classified document investigation, has entered a crunch time. >> and devlin, that same judge, howell also rejected executive privilege claims in the investigation into trump's

efforts to overturn the 2020 election. and ordered mark meadows, the former chief of staff, to the former president as well as other aides to testify. what is the significance? >> i think the significance is that they are forcing people in trump's inner circle to come into the grand jury. i think sometimes people hear that close aides have to testify and they think, this will be evidence against the person. i don't think we can assume that. remember a lot of these witnesses are essentially people who support trump and people who have argued publicly they do not think trump that anything criminal. so, that is not necessarily they are gathering evidence incriminating the former president, although that is certainly possible. part of what may be going on is gathering a better understanding for prosecutors of what any trump defense might be. and that has been an important objective for procutors looking at the conduct around all of these events.

>> so, eugene, former president trump has not really talked about this week the cases that devlin was just talking about, but he has bee very explicit online, issuing threats in regards to manhattan district attorney's investigation he posted a photo of himself holding a baseball bat alongside the district attorney. he posted online the threats of death and destruction. this also comes as trump is about to go to texas for one of his first big rallies. and waco is a really big place for the far-right extremist group due to what happened in 1993. what is the message the former president is sending? >> we saw this on the debate stage, he does a wink and nod a lot of times to folks. if you talk to him and the

people around him, they will say he didn't expressively call for --violence but the other people say they are taking cues from the president when he talks about there will be death and distraction. it is telling some of these folks in the right wing groups that he wants us to do these things, whether or not donald says it explicitly, that is what they have seen we saw that on january 6th. people i was talking about waco for tomorrow, his rally tomorrow, they are very concerned about the security of what is going to happen and as these cases start coming down, if he is indicted in any of these cases, what that looks like around the country because of these calls, these calls for violence. >> hans, as trump is attacking the district attorney who actually recently received death threats this week, republicans in the house are vowing to investigate. where is this attempt to investigate the investigators

going to go? >> use all republicans on the senate side say, not so fast. this is not a great idea. which seem to be like the first sign that this was dis other is the back-and-forth of the separation of powers. the congress can try to subpoena them and try to force them to compel testimony but to do that you know you need? you need the justice department and the justice department is controlled by joe biden. it is really hard to see how he actually had hrings on capitol hill with a local prosecutor justifying an investigation and decisions he or sheay have made. which puts us into sort of familiar territory in trump -- the trump era and that is a lot of things are performative. the president says this, a lot of lawmakers make their say, we are going to investigate. but do they really have the power to really summon that guy, bring him before them and force him to answer questions? it will ultimately be decided by the courts and as we know there

were other cases going on that will probably overtake this one. we're back to sort of these three investigations that devlin's talking about and i do not know which one -- >> so far the district attorney's office has rejected requests for documents from republicans. >> pretty forceful he. -- forcefully. i think we know where he stands. >> his office called it unlawful. heather, speaking of attempts to attack bragg and discredit this investigation into hush money, there is also among house republicans again, an attempt to discredit investigations into the january 6th attack and trump 's efforts to overturn the election. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene and a dozen house republicans went to the d.c. jail to visit with accused january 6 defendants. this seems to be a pattern here. >> and this is interestingly, this goes back to kevin mccarthy

in the deal he made with conservatives in early january after 15 pallets to-- ballots to secure the speakership. i'm part of that was to shed some light on what really happened on january 6th. now you talk to democrats on the hill and senate republicans and they say a lot of this is nonsense. january 6 was an insurrection, it was violent. why are we trying to rewrite history in the house? i think there is a lot of hurt feelings, even among senate republicans and anger about this but, yes, it is part of a pattern. when speaker mccarthy met with abbott's mom yesterday and release the 41,000 hours of security footage to tucker carlsen. not any other media. there was a lot of criticism about that. then we have barry loudermilk, whose promising to investigate the generous six committee and say, here is what they did not look into. -- to investigate the january 6 committee. and here is what they did not look into. a lot of this is carthy trying

to keep the house republicans -- happy. none of this is good for house republicans. as we get more into the election cycle in 2024 when voters are returning to the ballots will they keep hammering on this or turn to somebody else? >> a significant amount of the republican, of the gop base and trump supporters believe that january 6 was not as dangerous as it actually was. and believe that the 2020 election was stolen. devlin, i want to come back to you because there are a number of indictments that the former president could be facing across these multiple cases. what happens next in the two we are talking about right now, the special counsel's investigation into classified documents as well as the manhattan d.a.'s investigation into the hush money payments? >> so, let's start with manhattan. in manhattan there were signals

last week that they were, according to people familiar with that grand jury, very close to voting on whether to indict or not. then something seemed to change in the public understanding of what was going on. and that process seemed to slow down a little. next week is going to be a week of waiting to see if that grand jury actually moves forward or if there is some wrinkle brought on by the last-minute hail mary defense strategy to give the grand jury additional information to try to change their minds or change their momentum. in the classified documents case, what we're really seeing i think is, if you look at the witnesses that they have come, particularly the lawyer who did the search at mar-a-lago originally for the documents that the fbi and the justice department decided was so problematic and so insufficient. i think that the fact that that

person was in the grand jury today really suggests that there was just a very tightening circle of people the government has not talked to, and they have done a great deal of evidence gathering so far. and now it is really coming seems to me like there are not that many more people to talk to once you have talked to evan corcoran. >> that investigation could wrap up soon? >> i mean, wrap up is a tough term in federal investigations. most criminal investigations take years. so, i don't want to over speculate or over predict, but i will say, if you think about who the witnesses are, evan corcoran is the type of person who should be among the last to go in the grand jury and that is how i think it goes. >> devlin, if there is an indictment, what is the process after that? >> well, if that happens, we. willbe in uncharted territory obvious.

obviously, for the historical reason that a former president has not been indicted and a couple of very practical, technical reasons, that this is a personwho is secret service security detail that cannot leave him. and so, i think it is, not a specific predictable thing as to exactly how they would process someone, but what normally happens when you are indicted, especially for a white-collar crime, financial crime and a nonviolent crime. you are allowed to self surrender to the courthouse where you are processed. you get your photograph for the mug shot. and then you up in court and then you are released. something like that would happen if donald trump is ultimately indicted for something, but you would have to do it with the sort of protective barrier of the secret service. and again, that is something we have never seen before. >> the one thing we have not talked about here is the way democrats have been reacting to the specific legal developments. what's their response been so

far? >> until today there were mostly silent. i mean, they did weigh in a bit. but today we saw the house minority leader jeffries come out as u played in the beginning, didn't -- to respond to trump's threat overnight of deh and destruction, or whatever he wrote. they have kinda stayed on the sidelines. and this is in a pattern that we have kinda stayed on the sidelines. and this is. -- but part of that i think is they have realized that there are a lot of issues within the republican party that are lot of -- a lot of differences between senate and house republicans. there is a lot of debate over whether they should support former president trump and democrats are happy to step to the sidelines and be in the minority and just let speaker kevin mccarthy deal with it on his own, right? they don't want to add any fuel to the fire. that is really what we are seeing. >> we're going to be laser

focused on that manhattan district attorney, the developments there in the grand jury but thanks for joining us and sharing your reporting. >> thanks for having me. >> it is unclear how trump's growing legal issues will impact his support among the republican base. but after months of jabs one of trump's 2024 challengers, florida's governor ron desantis, took aim at him for the first time. >> i don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged affair. i can't speak to that. >> desantis went on to say that manhattan d..a.'s office was pursuing a political agenda and weaponizing office. that was a very cautious jab from desantis. >> the important thing is he is making the jabs. up to this point, chris

christie, mike pence a little bit but this was the first time desantis has thrown a punch. not to do this all on boxing metaphors during march which should only be basketball month. but you saw him taking shots. you know, he walked it back a little bit but i am not so sure the walking back and when he says, sanitizes a little bit, i do not know if that matters with trump. you have an audience of one, and the audience of one is donald trump to see to what extent he response and that it gets interesting. i think we are just at the beginning of this. what we learn from desantis this week is that he is in this fight and he is prepared to take a swing. >> he's trying to have it both ways. also defend him in the hush money payment case but desantis also backtracked on recent comments that he made about ukraine. he said that russia's, russia's invasion was a territorial dispute at first. now he's calling it a real invasion and called russian

president putin a war criminal. what is behind that change? >> if you look at the backlash he received from establishe workd republicans and desantis will claim he does not want the distant-- the establishment but in reality if you want to be the candidate you need the support of the establishment. but the backlash she received especially from senate republicans who are mostly united and aligned to fund this war and support ukraine and also the donors. a lot of them were taken aback by this. a lot of folks realize republicans, we talked to them on the hill, they see him as their establishment candidate. but if you talk to republicans especially on the senate side privately, they see him as kind of trump lite, someone who can bring this base along if anyone who is not trump can, but appeal

to more establishment republicans and the donor base they are looking at. i lot of them thought it was an unnecessary air -- a lo-- a lot of them thought it was an unnessary error. >> he is very much aligned in policy and message. aren't we seeing that base moved away from trump and towards desantis or anyone else who would get into the 2024 field? >> the answer is, no. that it's frustrating for a lot of republicans whose names are not donald trump for years is that his base is with him. they have been with him from the very beginning and it is hard to shake that. we went through january 6th, all types of things he has said and done over the years, they have'' t moved. i would say with desantis, punching a little bit or pence doing the same thing, it has to be sustained and has to be on the debate state. -- debate stage. it cannot be in a dark room

where reporters cannot record or sitting down with piers morgan. it needs toe in front of donald trump to see how he reacts because voters have not seen that. it did not happen in 2016 and when it did with marco rubio, it did not go over very well. so, that is something when i talk to some of these strategists who want someone like ron desantis to jp in and be that trump lite, that is what they want to see but the other reason they like ron desantis is not ju because he is tough with the media and reporters, it is because he has been able to use the levers of government in florida to take on the issues they care about. and that is something i think that republicans, especially conservatives, are looking to do on the federal level. and that is another reason that he is the man to beat. they also likehat he won. >> and you saw desantis wink at that, when he says, i'm a winner. the core of desantis is that he won big in a state that used to

be -- donors look and notice that. >> florida is very different than the same states across the country where trump didn't win. but republicans back in washington are also working on another disagreement over increasing the debt ceiling, which needs to be done to prevent a default, which as we all know would cause catastrophic damage, send the economy potentially into recession and the u.s. would default, not be able to pay its obligations, but punch bowl was just reporting about this as house republicans are demanding president biden negotiate over spending cuts in order for an exchange on increasing the debt ceiling, they're also struggling amongst themselves to figure out what spending cuts they are trying to do. where is this headed? >> yeah. right now democrats including biden, are saying, show us your plan, put your budget out. we put ours out, you and show us

what you have. house republicans want to roll this back to fisl 2022 leavens but they do not want to touch the fence. where these cuts going to come from. the problem is they only have a five seat majority in the house and most of them do not agree on what the cuts are and so they have not put a budget out yet. they keep saying that they will probably be sending out in april as late as may, but in the meantime, they want biden to continue to negotiate with them. democrats say we have nothing to negotiate. what are we supposed to do? it is a very interesting position they have put themselves in. we reported this morning that senate republicans are getting a little bit nervous about this , saying, all right, we are getting close. we need to get to the table and figure it out. >> hans, do you think there is any appetite among republicans, heather is saying they still want those spending cuts, but any appetite for clean debt ceiling increase? >> probably not. there might be privately but none that anyone can take and

expect to be speaker of the house. that is mccarthy's challenge. heather, you guys are doing a great job, at political -- on how he has kept his coalition together and how he has gotten the votes and it is by listening. so, you know, if you we are all going to be taking a bet in april and may, take the over, that it will be made, there has to be a lot more conversations on just what is doable. and i think, you know, we might all be nervous, wall street might be nervous about it, there are senate republicans that are nervous about it. the nervousness does not seem to seep into the core of the house republican conference and until that does, and no one knows -- is it a massive market correction or a big seller -- until that happens, i think we are in the pre-lim's on this and not in the fight in. >> the recent bank failure has

prompted some republicans to argue that we should make spending cuts. this is a good reason. what has the white hse response been to the? -- to that? >> the white house said especially with the -- what the svp issue showed, it had nothing to do with spending cuts, is about regulation. there were also some republicans who were saying, this proves that we should not be moving the debt limit unless another thing, the white house surprise, does not agree with. they don't want these things coupled. i do not see them changing their mind and over and over aides will tell you in the white house that republicans have done this before and they eventually win. they eventually shake the donors, start panicking, the is this community starts to panic and republicans get in line. the house republicans, this set of house republicans do not seem to have that same kind of fear of those rooms the folks. so, it's the senate that i think we should be watching.

senate republicans will have to take this over at som point is how a lot of folks in the white house feel because they do not see kevin mccarthy, though he is listening, they are worried he will not be able to lead his people into doing something that will keep the country from economic catastrophe. and we have some income that will be coming into the government based on taxes in april. that will tell us exactly when that x-date it, it might be august and it might be september but it is very unclear and that is not good. >> it is not good at all. let's hope that we don't reach economic catastrophe but we have to leave it there for now. so, thank you to my panel for joining us and for sharing your reporting. thanks to all of you for joining us as well. don't forget to watch pbs news weekend on saturday for a look at the barriers preventing people from receiving basic medical care and screenings. good night from washington. >> corporate funding for "washington week" is provided by -- >> for 25 years, consumer

cellular has been offering no contract plans designed to help people do more of what they like. our u.s. based customer service team can help find a plan that fits you. to learn more, visit consumer cellular.tv. >> additional funding is provided by -- euwen foundation, committed to bridging cultural divisions -- in our communities. sandra and carl magnuson and rose hirschel, robert and susan rosenbaum. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning performed by the natial captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.] ♪ ♪ >>

- [narrator] coming up. - shwas the ultimate agitator and feared because of it. - [narrator] as racial terror reigned over the south... - there were close to 200 lynchings in tennessee alone. - [narrator] a young african-american woman struck back with her pen. - she was writing not just to inform, but to shame. - she says i'm gonna challenge you on this thread-bare lie that african-american men are lynched because they rape white women. - [narrator] she fled to chicago where she emerged as a radical black leader. - [woman] there was never a time when ida b. wells was not getting pushback, especially so in chicago. - [narrator] and became an inspiration to a new generation. - black lives matter! - black lives matter is addressing the same issues