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i'm christian fraser and this is the context. >> we charge netanyahu and ga llant as co-perpetrators in these alleged crimes. >> the attorney general mentions the prime minister and minister of defense of the state of israel alongside the abominable nazi monsters of hamas. >> there should be no equivalence between israel and hamas. none. ♪ christian: the prosecutor at the international criminal court seeks an arrest warrant for benjamin netanyahu along with israel's defense minister and three hamas leaders. we will get the thoughts tonight of the united states former war crimes ambassador. it has taken decades to get here but the long-awaited report into the scandal of infected blood

given to nhs patients has reported with a shocking account of error, betrayal and cover-up. those affected feel the truth has come out at last. we will hear from those who have lost loved ones because of that negligence. and a victory for julian assange. the high court in london today blocked his extradition to the u.s., at least for now, granting him permission to appeal. he has spent five years in jail. is it fair to keep pursuing him in this way? a very good evening. the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court says he is seeking arrest warrants for the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and the defense minister on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity in gaza. he has also applied for arrest warrants for three to leaders of hamas for war crimes and crimes against humanity in connection with the october 7 attacks in israel.

1200 people were killed and 252 others taken hostages. since then more than 35,000 people have been killed in gaza as part of the idf operation according to the hamas-run health ministry. the request sent to the judges, the prosecutor alleged there is evidence to suggest starvation has been used by the prime minister and his defense minister as a method of war against civilians. he also alleges the israeli leaders have killed willfully, intentionally directing attacks against civilians. with respect to hamas, the prosecutor says there is clear or -- clear evidence they ordered rape and the inhumane treatment of hostages. the panel must now decide whether they believe the evidence - the reonse from israel and hamas has been swift. hamas said the arrest warrants equated the victim with the executioner. in the last few minutes the

israeli prime minister released this video statement. >> the outrageous decision by the icc prosecutor to seek arrest warrants against the democratically elected leaders of israel is a moral outrage of historic proportions. it will cast an everlasting mark of shame on the international court. israel is waging a just war against hamas, a genocidal terrorist organization, that perpetrated the worst attack on the jewish people since the holocaust. christian: with us tonight, stephen rap, former u.s. ambassador at large for war crimes within the obama administration. thank you very much for being with us. heas come under fire for a lot of political criticism in the west today, kareem con, but i against -- but i guess he would not have done this unless he thought there was evidence to merit a charge. stephen: yes. the prosecutor operates independently and has a staff including an american who is

leading the investigation, chief prosecutor for the special court of sierra leone. this is based upon their evaluation of the evidence. and on the operability of the statute to israel and palestine, because palestine is a state party and the judges determined there is jurisdiction. christian: you say palestine is a state party. i think the british government made the point today that palestine is recognized as a state. is that relevant here? stephen: it was relevant. there was certainly a good argument on that question. but since palestine was admitted to the u.n. as an observer state in 2012, it became a state party to the icc in 2015 when that was recognized, that ratification was recognized by the united nations. their former prosecutor put that

issue before the judges in 2020 and in 2021 the judges said yes, a state. any crime committed on the territory of palestine, art of the west bank or the gaza strip, would be under icc jurisdiction. and any crime allegedly committed by a citizen or national of palestine, particularly people in gaza's michael over to israel, -- they could be subject to the icc. christian: the united states put out a statement saying this could get in the way of the peace negotiations, the negotiations for a cease-fire. it is not a party state to the icc, nor is israel. some have called on the biden administration to impose sanctions on the court. what difference would that make were that to come to pass? stephen: we do recall that the trump administration put

sanctis on the icc prosecutor and her diplomatic assistant because they opened an investigation on alleged torture by the cia and by the military in afghanistan and elsewhere. but those sanctions were lifted by the biden administration. i don't think sanctions are appropriate, sanctions you would use against a terrorist organization, against a legal body. everything that goes on here will have to be determined by qualified and independent judges. so that is not the way to approach it. the way to approach this case is to defend it. the way to defend it for israel is for them to say -- theres a lot of ways to challenge it. the issue the administration

raises in regard to pieces one i am quite familiar with. when i was ambassador and we had issues like this,, i would often reach out to international courts, the prosecutors, the judges, indicate that this might harm certain positive things that were going on at the time, peace negotiations and that kind of thing. prosecutors listen to you, sometimes they time things accordingly, but they rarely decide not to do a case based on some kind of political influence. it's important to note here that at this time, there was some hope of peace negotiations several weeks ago, and now those have completely broken off. the relations regarding humanitarian access, the deprivation of food and fuel and other necessities for the palestinian population in gaza. there's obviously, the u.s. government is making strong statements about that. on the other hand, not enough is

reaching the people to support their survival, to be frank, in northern gaza to be particular. now we have the blockage of the main entry point at rafah. so, the humanitarian situati is in a way even worse than it was several weeks ago. so it's kind of hard to make the argument right now not to proceed with justice. but obviously we will see how this case goes. christian: that is really interesting. soou think actions on the ground have -- stephen: it wekaned the case not to proceed. there has not been positive -- sufficient positive developments on the humanitian front. of course we have the

interference of some humanitarian convoys crossing israel towards gaza, but no arrests, no detentions of those beating up truck drivers and others. you don't see any investigations yet regarding violations. obviously it takes time. but those are all factors that i think make it difficult to argue the prosecutor right now not to proceed. now, we will see what the judges do with these arrest warrants. i would anticipate relatively prompt action, within several weeks. then of course the fundamental issue with international justice, which of course get s us back to the international arena, is it requires international cooperation. it has to rely on states. and they will be relying on the 124 countries that are in the

icc, which is essentially almost all of europe, almost all of latin america and large other parts of africa and asia. and so, those states will be under an obligation to cooperate and make an arrest. and some countries will of course condition various aspects of their foreign relations on whether states are complying. so this will have an effect, without question. willoughby arrests? we will see-- will it bea rrests? we will see. christian: thank you. some really intereing points there, not least the fact that events on the ground may have dispelled the arguments that were being made not to issue these warrants now. >> there are constantly month after month promises by israel to accelerate the deliver -- delivery of aid pressure by the biden administration.

statements by the administration that it is going to happen. you remember them saying that the magic word is there would soon be 500 trucks a day. there was perhaps one day where they came close to it. so this has been a particular issue. of course the israelis say they are doing all they can. the u.n. is acting for hamas, is the most brutal accusation they make, which of course they deny. they say the u.n. doesn't have the trucks or ability to deliver the aid. so both sides sniping at each other. caught in the middle are more than 2 million palestinians on the rink of starvation. and of course around 130 hostages, with no real crity as to how many are still alive and weather conditions are. christian: what do you make to ambassador rapp's point there, that sometimes you have to find a balance between the efforts to get a cease-fire and the search

for justice? because this has come up before in other conflict around the world. lyse: this relationship between peace and justice has been brought up, as he mentioned, time and again for decades. i remember the u.n. envoy working in afghanistan in the region in the 1990's and 2000's saying to human rights groups, you go after justice. my job is peace, and don't get in my way of peace. and others saying peace is not possible without justice. true peace means justice must be done, and must be seen to be done. i remember others, including someone who heads a new region refugee committee, he was a u.n. envoy heading with the -- he was indicted. he said to me, this is getting of the way of peace.

he was a former human rights advocate. there are those who say yes, they must go, but first we have peace and then justice. the sequencing has always been at the heart of issues about, how do you move towards peace, and in the long run, justice? do they go sequentially or in parallel? this is exactly what is happening now. time and again you see it. christian: stay with us, because i do want to talk iran, where today they declared five days of mourning for the country's president ebrahim raisi. he was traveling back from azerbaijan with the iranian foreign minister when the helicopter came down in thick fog. that search in a mountainous area in northwestern iran was hampered by the bad weather, but they have recovered the bodies. there were several others on board we are told. what does all of that mean? because everybody has been making the point that the hardliners, the conservative hardliners, will fill the gap./

but there is a certain amount of celebration that we have seen on social media. so, is there a security vacuum at the moment, and how concerned will they be? lyse: there is no security vacuum and tre is certainly no political vacuum. first of all, the conservatives, the hardliners, the ultraconservatives you could say, they now control all of the main leaders of power, all of the elected and unelected bodies in iran. this process began to be solidified in the elections in 2021, which brought abraham are easy to power in elections, which saw a record low turnout in the country. i saw for myself and you 1990's covering elections in iran, really strong and enthusiastic turnout among the voters. that has been declining in election after election. and in that process, and i would expect that this will happen again in the elections they are now preparing, is that all the

other rivals, the candidates who are moderates or pro-reform, will be excluded from the race to clear the path for the conservatives. bear in mind, as we have said time and time again, while the president a senior position, it is not the most powerful. that is the ultimate authority, the supreme leader, houthi five-year-old ayatollah khamenei, and also the islamic revolutionary guard corps when it comes especially to foreign policy. christian: are the protests that we have already had and celebrations in the fireworks we have all seen on social media, that is reflected, as you suggest -- in respect to the decaying legitimacy there is around the clerics and a conservative government. lyse: for decades now. for decades which has seen the standards of iranians, the financial hardships they live with the deepening and deepening.

partly because of crippling international sanctions, but also because of corruption and mismanagement. we saw in those unprecedented protests sparked in 2022 that there's a whole new generation, particularly women, who don't want to stand for these very strict islamic rules governing their lives, telling them what to wear, how the must act, that they must wear a headscarf. in those protests we saw, often, they definitely shook the islamic republic, but they did not break it and bring it down. will the opponents of the islamic republic inside and outside the country try to take this moment to maximize the possibility, to give another poke to the conservatives? they will do everything possible now. this is their main priority, to ensure continuity. christian: i don't know whether he was really a front runner to replace ayatollah khamenei, but

clearly with him out of the picture now, that does clear the way for the ayatollah's son. does that mean that iran becomes more authoritarian, more militarized, perhaps even more brittle? lyse: even though as i said, that it will be the conservatives who are likely to dominate the upcoming elections, it does not mean that they are also unified. there is expected to be jockeying for position. between the more hardline camps and the more pragmatic camps. they understand it is not just about the changeover of the presidency, this is preparing the ground for the transition which matters. ayatollah khamenei is 85 years old. in recent years he was seen to be at death's door. at some point this transition will come. there will be a link between choosing the person as a president and perhaps choosing a new candidate. that is a very opaque process. if a reminder was needed about the unpredictability of politics, i noticed last week

how there were suddenly all these articles, intense speculation as to who would succeed the supreme leader. i thought it was interesting they were picking up the story again, and raisi was mentioned as a contender, so too the second son of the ayatollah. but the job of choosing the successor is the task of the assembly of experts. and raisi had a coveted spot ther, and that position has to be filled too. so all of this is linked, and the conservatives will be very mindful of this as they try to connect these dots, to ensure that it remains business as usual. christian: interesting times in iran and also across the middle east. thank you. around the world and across the u.k., you are watching bbc news. let's take a quick look at a mother major story -- another major story in u.k., the blood scandal, widely considered to be

the biggest scandal in nhs history. today they identified a catalog of failures. more than 30,000 people in the u.k. were inflected -- infected with hiv and hepatitis c after being given infected blood products in the 1970's and 1980's. many have since died. others have knowingly passed infections onto their partners who then died. victims and their families have spent decades looking for answers to the questions, fighting for compensation. often big nord by successive -- often ignored by successive governments. today the prime minister and opposition leader apologized to the victims and the families. we will have more on that inquiry later in this hour, including reaction from chris smith, who lost his father when he was just eight years old. members who contracted fatal illnesses from that contaminated blood. big day for julian assange.

the high court in london has blocked his extradition to the united states for now. the court had previously sought assurances from washington the 52-year-old would be able to rely on a first amendment defense to the spine charges -- spine charges he faces, and if convicted he would not face the death penalty. the wikileaks founder has spent more than a decade resisting deportation. had he lost his appeal today, he could have been on a flight within 24 hours. with us tonight, u.n. special rapporteur on torture. thank you very mu for coming on the program. can we talk about this? it has been a long-running legal saga here in the united kingdom. he spent five years in a high security prison. has he suffered enough, in your opinion? >> yeah, i think so. i have been wary worried about assange's mental and physical health.

this long-running legal saga has taken a terrible toll on his health. an underlying this take -- this case is about our values and the protections we afford to people who are essentially blowing the whistle on crimes that are committed in wartime. christian: of course you have to set that in a legal context. the u.k. is a signatory for the u.n. convention against torture. so what needs to be considered within this appeal? alice: what i understand is only two of his nine grounds for appeal have been allowed to proceed. they actually revolve around freedom of expression and the compatibility between u.k. law and u.s. law. that is not the area i work in. my concerns are around the fact that he may face a disproportionate penalty, which will not be before this court, but should he fail in the next and final round in the domestic

courts, he should be given the opportunity to challenge any extradition under the european court of human rights. i've been a bit perplexed that these questions about disproportionate penalties have not been fully litigated. i was please to see that the death penalty had been taken off the table, although that was a strange one because was brought in at the last moment in the february hearing. so, still some way to go for mr. assange. christian: does his mental health, because he is obviously suffering from a depressive disorder at the moment, does that have any relevance in the case, particularly given where he would be detained if he were sent to the u.s.? alice: look, if he is unsuccessful in the next round, and that is the found no -- the final round in u.k., they still have to do a final health check on mr. assange to see that he is fit to travel and to withstand

any proceedings. what i would really like to see is that the three governments, the united states, and the united kingdom, and his own country australia, coming to some kind of arrangement so that this saga can finally be put hunt all of the actors. the case has been terrible for mr. assange, but of course it is still affecting the credibility and human rights credentials of the u.s. in particular. christian: right. are you not suggesting though that they would be -- i know there are lots of discussions around the european court of human rights when it comes to migration at the moment, but you are not suggesting he would be denied an appeal at the echr, are you? alice: no, i think the european court of course would take the case. there's a procedure over rule 39 injunction that has to be taken very quickly. what i have been reminding t u.k. government is, whatever the outcome, if it's negative, he

would need to be given e time to make that challenge and that they do not extradite him before he has had that opportunity. but i understand hearing may be held in autumn. he's still got this chance to fight on freedom of expression grounds. and i think they are relatively strong, so we will see how he proceeds. christian: it is interesting, when i talk to the u.k. government i noticed today that jeremy or corbin -- do y get a sense this is a major problem for the u.k. government, given their relations with the white house and obviously trying to hold the extradition treaty they have? is it now becoming a political soreness for the u.k. government? alice: i think it is actually a political sore for the u.s. and the u.k. i think western governments now are under a lot of scrutiny, and this is another one of those cases that has animated the

human rights community, and rightly so. sometimes it looks like there is a double standard being applied. so, i think in an election year, it would be great if this could be resolved. assange mr. is a human rights defender. he has stood up for human rights and the provisional war crimes, etc. so i think time would be better spent on other matters of international affairs. christian: alice edwards, thank you for coming on the program. we're going to take a short break. on the other side of the break we're going to focus the blood announcer: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... financial services firm, raymond james.

cunard is a proud supporter of public television. announcer: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation, pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ announcer: get the free pbs app now and stream the best of pbs.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ announcer: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... woman: two retiring executives turn their focus to greyhounds, giving these former race dogs a real chance to win.