wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. now you won't miss a thing. this is the way. xfinity internet. made for streaming. >> good evening. i am geoff bennett. >> on the newshour tonight, the international criminal court issues arrest warrants for israeli and hamas leaders for war crimes and crimes against humanity. >> iran's president and foreign minister are killed in a

helicopter crash, raising questions about the future leadership of the country. >> it will bring the resistance in iran a big step forward. this was a big blow for the dictatorship in iran. amna: the prosecution rests its case in for my president donald trump's hush money trial. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions, and friends of the newshour, including leonard and norma clore vine and the judy and peter bloom kohler foundation. >> two retired executives turned their attention to greyhounds, giving them a chance to win.

a raymond james financial advisor gets to know you, your purpose and the way you give back. life well planned. >> the william and flora hewlett foundation. for more than 50 years advancing ideas and supporting institutions to promote a better world. at hewlett.org. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. amna: welcome to the newshour.

in an unprecedented announcement, the international criminal court said it was seeking warrants to arrest not only the leaders of hamas but also the elected leadership of israel on charges of war crimes and crimes against amenity. geoff: president biden called it outrages and benjamin netanyahu called it a blood libel, but the prosecutor defended his position. nick schifrin starts our coverage. >> my office charges them as co-perpetrators. nick: from the hague, devastating and divisive allegations accusing israel of intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population and starvation of civilians as a method of warfare, and requesting arrest warrants for netanyahu and the defense minister you off the lot -- minister gallant.

>> these individuals through a common plan have systematically deprived the civilian population of gaza of objects indispensable to human survival. nick: at the same time, the icc also seeks arrest warrants for a hamas leader and military branch leader on the right, both of whom are hiding in gaza and the political bureau head, who lives openly in qatar, for killing more than 200 and kidnapping more than 250 on october 7. >> there are reasonable grounds to believe that these three hamas leaders are criminally responsible for the killing of israeli civilians and attacks perpetrated by hamas and other armed groups on the seventh of october, 2023. nick: israeli and u.s. officials argued the icc has no jurisdiction especially with ongoing domestic israeli investigations. the israeli prime minister calling the announcement had caught himself -- the announcement and cahn himself

outrageous. >> through this decision, he takes his place among the great anti-semites in modern times. he stands alongside those infamous german judges who put on their robes and upheld laws that denied the jewish people their most basic rights and enabled the nazis to perpetrate the worst crimes in history. nick: the announcement united usually fractious lawmakers in israel. the opposition leader condemned it. >> it is unforgivable. we have and we are managing a just war, and it needs to be clear we will not stay silent over it. nick: president biden also called the announcement outrageous and said there was no equivalent between israel and hamas. hamas also condemned, quote, the attempts by the icc's public prosecutor to equate the victim with the executioner. a panel of judges will now decide whether to issue the warrants he requested today. for the pbs newshour, i am nick schifrin. geoff: we will get two perspectives on this.

a professor from rutgers law school, and the chair of international law at the hebrew university of jerusalem. he is also a former chair of the u.n. human rights committee. thank you both for being with us. how significant is this move by the prosecutor at the international criminal court to seek arrest warrants for the top leaders of israel and hamas? and what might the practical impact be, given that israel's government does not recognize the icc? >> the significance is tremendous. we have the prosecutor of the international criminal court bringing serious charges against the leaders of hamas and the leaders of the israeli military and the political establishment. there are a variety of crimes ranging from, in the case of hamas, murder, rape, torture, the taking of hostages. and on the israeli side, the use of starvation as warfare,

killing of civilians, and crimes against humanity. both the leaders of hamas and israel have been charged with crimes against humanity as well as war crimes. these are incredibly serious allegations and crimes. they are being charged in an independent, objective, and evenhanded manner by the prosecutor and that's of enormous significance. the practical significance, if arrest warrants are issued by the pretrial chamber, it may be very difficult to execute them. but they are significant in two other ways. the first is the expressive value, affirming the rights and dignity of the victims of crimes committed by both sides of the conflict. and the other is to catalyze the political process to bring the conflict to a close and create accountability for the many victims on both sides. geoff: what about that?

what has been the reaction in israel? do you think this move by the icc might change the way israel is carrying out its war in gaza? >> i tend to agree with adil that this is quite a dramatic development. i would note that the prosecutor -- although the charges are quite significant and broad, ultimately they deal with a relatively narrow set of facts, so it is really dealing with the murders that took place on october 7, the taking and mistreatment of hostages. on the israeli side, it has to do with the policy regarding humanitarian aid, which has been characterized as a policy of starvation. the reaction in israel has been extremely negative. the very idea that the israeli leadership is being put on a similar level to the hamas

leadership has been regarded as a form of insult. i imagine that israel is not going to cooperate with these proceedings going forward. it has also been commented, at least by the opposition, that this is a diplomatic failure by the government, that it has led us to such a low place. will it affect the war in the short run? probably not. israel has changed its policy with regard to humanitarian aid. now the declared policy is allegedly flooding the gaza strip with aid. but i do believe that beyond the very short term range, this could be another impetus for israel to bring the war to an end because it does appear to be

in a state of a tailspin where the legal front and diplomatic fronts are becoming more complicated every week that passes. geoff: in a statement, president biden called the application for arrest warrants against israeli leaders outrageous. secretary of state antony blinken said the u.s. fundamentally rejects the call for arrest warrants and says it could jeopardize diplomacy for a cease-fire or hostage deal between israel and hamas. adil, how do you assess the u.s. response and position? >> the u.s. response has been disappointing. a striking feature is i have not yet seen any defense of israeli policy on the merits. the objections are to supposed equivalents being drawn between the israeli and hamas leaders. or objections based on jurisdiction or process or propriety, but nothing really though on the merits. nothing saying the israeli

leaders are not guilty as charged. on this point of equivalence, it is important to understand that international law does not compare individuals with each other. it compares each individual's conduct with their legal obligations. so the standard is not, is one side better or worse than the other? the standard is the law. is each side complying with legal obligations? certainly according to the prosecutor, neither side is complying with its obligations. so both have to be charged and brought to justice. geoff: yuval shany, the icc chief prosecutor has faced significant pressure from washington for months to avoid bringing arrest warrants against top israeli leaders in particular, and yet they move forward anyway. what do you think accounts for the timing? what is the overall impact on the israeli prime minister and his political standing? >> his political standing for

the short time, we will see some rallying around the flag and there has been already more than 100 parliament members in israel out of 120 have signed a statement that condemns the proceeding. but in the long run it does increase the perception of netanyahu as a political liability on the state of israel. netanyahu, who has ran many campaigns on the basis of his diplomatic skills, i think may be running out of road in this regard. geoff: yuval shany and adil haque, thank you both for your insights. we appreciate it. >> thank you very much. ♪ vanessa: i am vanessa ruiz with newshour west. here are the latest headlines. the container ship that caused the deadly bridge collapse in baltimore has finally returned to port. this morning the dali may be low

2.5 mile journey back to land escorted by tugboats. port officials said they are getting closer to fully reopening the channel. >> as far as the depth and draft necessary to bring larger vessels in, the depth is there, we just don't have the wit. there are still bridge sections that are in place. as the army corps unified command has indicated, they are looking at the end of may. vanessa: shipping company officials are working on allowing the 21 crewmembers to disembark. they had stayed on board for maintenance and help investigators determine what led to the crash. wind and hail battered large parts of oklahoma and kansas last night as the latest bout of severe weather sweeps through the region. nearly 20 homes were damaged in western oklahoma. officials say two people were injured. the national weather service said they received 13 tornado reports across three states. the

risk of severe storms is expected to continue into early tuesday. defense secretary lloyd austin is vowing to keep the flow of weapons moving to ukraine as russia intensifies its attacks on the country's northeastern region of kharkiv. austin spoke this morning to a virtual meeting of some 50 defense leaders from europe and around the world. he promised that weapons would keep coming "week after week." >> we are again delivering urgently needed assistance to ukraine, and the security assistance that we are now rushing to ukraine will make a difference in this fight. the united states remains determined to do our part. vanessa: the comments come as ukraine's president's zelenskyy again expresses frustration over the pace of western military support. a british court has ruled that wikileaks founder julian assange can challenge his extradition to the u.s. his lawyers had argued that his free speech rights would not be protected if he was sent here to

face trial. supporters outside the court celebrated the decision. the australian activist has been indicted on 17 espionage charges over the publication of classified u.s. military documents. assange has spent the last five years in a british prison, after seeking refuge in the ecuadorean embassy in central london in 2012. , a public inquiry has concluded that a decades-old blood transfusion scandal was not an accident. it finds that britain's national health service knowingly exposed tens of thousands of patients to hepatitis and hiv-tainted blood from the 1970s to early 1990s, then tried to cover it up. an estimated 3000 people are known to have died. british prime minister rishi sunak apologized today. >> this is a day of shame for the british state. today's report shows a decades

long moral failure at the heart of our national life. at every level, the people and institutions in which we place our trust failed in the most harrowing and devastating way. vanessa: sunak also said the details of a $12 billion compensation package for victims will be announced on tuesday. the chairman of the federal deposit insurance corporation, or fdic, is resigning. martin gruenberg is currently serving his second term as head of the bank regulator. he's come under fire in recent months after an external review found evidence of a toxic workplace culture, including reports of employee mistreatment and sexual harrassment. in a statement, gruenberg said that "in light of recent events, i am prepared to step down from my responsibilities once a successor is confirmed." a federal judge is reopening the sentencing hearing of david depape, the man convicted of attacking nancy pelosi's husband

paul with a hammer. depape was sentenced friday to 30 years in prison, but the judge said she erred in not offering him a speaking opportunity before sentencing, as the law requires. a new hearing is scheduled for may 28. and a wall street related passing of note. ivan boesky has died. a central figure to the insider trading scandals of the 1980s, he was also the basis for the michael douglas character gordon gekko in the film "wall street." boesky made his fortune betting on corporate takeover targets, often with the help of illegaly-obtained information. as part of a plea deal, he worked with authorities to bring others to justice, including the so-called junk-bond king, michael milken. boesky was 87 years old. still to come, major questions surface about the future of artificial intelligence as tech firms showcase new products. tamera keith and amy walter break down the latest political

headlines. and we get an inside look at a career retrospective of critically acclaimed artist lorraine o'grady. >> this is the pbs newshour from w eta studios in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. amna: iranian president ebrahim raisi and the country's foreign minister were found and confirmed dead today, hours after their helicopter crashed in fog, leaving the islamic republic without two key leaders as extraordinary tensions grip the wider middle east. supreme leader ayatollah ali khamenei, who has the final say in the shiite theocracy, quickly named a little-known vice president as caretaker until a new election and insisted the government was in control. but the deaths mark yet another blow to a country beset by pressures at home and abroad. special correspondent reza sayah in tehran has the latest.

reza: it was a crash felt across the middle east. in iran's mountainous northwest, a dense fog thinned out this morning, revealing the helicopters mangled tail and shardsf debris wedged'neath the trees. after an hours long search, rescue teams found no survivors. among the eight people on board, iran's hard-line president ebrahim raisi as well as the countries foreign minister, hossein amirabdollahian. two of iran's most senior figures killed. >> this is a serious incident for all of us. reza: a stunning loss that threatens instability. but today, the country's newly appointed caretaker, first vice president mohammad mokhber, delivered a message of reassurance. >> the country will continue moving forward under this leadership. everyone should continue on with their roles despite this

incident. in no way will this tragic incident interfere with the government and running of our country. reza: raisi was viewed as a regime loyalist, rewarded by iran's supreme leader with numerous promotions and finally a presidential candidacy in 2017. that year, raisi lost. four years later he won after a carefully-choreographed election campaign. raisi's government cracked on internal unrest after the death of mahsa amini sparked mass protests in 2022. raisi won the 2021 elections with the lowest voter turnout in four decades. he was clearly not a popular figure. even so, many believe his carefully engineered political rise was not going to stop at the presidency. many believe he was being groomed to replace the aging supreme leader. with his death, the most important question now may not be who iran's next president will be, but who iran's next

supreme leader will be. in tehran today, hundreds of raisi's supporters gathered in the streets to mourn. >> we were shocked that we lost such a character, a character that made iran proud and humiliated the enemies. reza: outside iran's borders, a very different sentiment. in berlin, iranians living in exile showed little sorrow. >> we are very happy, and we hope as soon as possible we will take our country back. reza: raisi and his convoy had been flying back from azerbaijan late sunday, where, hours before the crash, he met with leaders and visited a dam construction site. flying conditions were poor but officials did not immediately say what caused the bell helicopter to go down. u.s. state department officials

blamed iran for flying the helicopter carrying the president in dog whether. >> -- in bad weather. >> ultimately the iranian government is responsible for the decision of flying a 45-year-old helicopter in bad weather conditions. reza: the acting president spoke by phone today to leaders in russia and turkey and condolences came from countries around the world. officials in lebanon and iraq announced a morning period to span the next three days. for the pbs newshour, i'm reza sayah, in tehran. amna: to break down what this means for iran's future and how it impacts foreign policy at this crucial juncture, we turn now to suzanne maloney, vice president and director of foreign policy at the brookings institution, a washington, d.c. think tank. let's begin with this helicopter crash. is there any reason to believe this was anything other than an accident, that this could have been foul play? suzanne: the most realistic

explanation is the most obvious. it was very poor weather, based on some of the scenes from the rescue efforts. there was fog, rain, and it was a helicopter that was quite old. it is understandable there are conspiracy theories. iranians have a tendency to interpret events in the light of their own history. in particular the region has been aflame recently. iran recently struck israel in an unprecedented attack, and the israeli response was quite mild. given the past history of iranian assassinations of nuclear scientists, it is not surprising there are conspiracy theories among iranians and those in the region. amna: tell us more about ebrahim raisi. we heard he was not a popular man but tell us about his leadership role, how he was seen by the public. suzanne: his most notable achievement was his role in the deaths of thousands of political

prisoners in 1988 who were sent to their deaths in sham trial's over which raisi and several other judges presided. that seems to have cemented his rise through the judicial apparatus within iran, which is typically not a path to power in the executive branch. and yet raisi was plucked from the judiciary, clearly being groomed for something greater by the iranian supreme leader. he had close family connections to iran's powerful religious establishment and had run iran's largest religious shrine in my shod. many considered him to be the leading candidate for the succession to the supreme leader in iran, who holds the ultimate authority. he is 85 years old and is expected to pass from the scene in the coming years. amna: as you mentioned, he is 85. succession talk is ramping up. is there a clear successor to company -- clear successor to

him in raisi's absence? suzanne: the only other well-known candidate is the son of the current supreme leader and who is quite influential behind the scenes but has never held a leadership role and has dubious clerical credentials. given this as a system that has inveighed against hereditary monarchy, it would be hypocritical if he succeeded his own father. amna: this is a jarring moment for a nation to lose two leaders at a time of enormous upheaval in the region, especially as we see iran working through so many proxies at the moment. could the uncertainty of this moment have broader implications outside of iran? suzanne: i think it will have a big shock to the system. the foreign minister who was killed was quite influential, well-connected to the security bureaucracy, and played a major role in iran's coordination among its proxies across the region. his loss will be felt.

the regime i think will be on edge as they want to avoid an appearance of vulnerability. they have to stage-managed an electoral process among a population that has demonstrated little interest in these heavily managed elections. and they have to ensure they set the leadership up for a smooth transition with the expectation of a potential succession for the supreme leader. amna: do you see any future leader dramatically changing iran's posture or strategy in the region at the moment? suzanne: it is hard to imagine someone coming from within the system of the islamic republic that could make major changes at this point in time. there have been times in the history of the islamic republic where there have been movements to try to promote gradual rough -- gradual reform. those have been shut down by those that control the security bureaucracy and the judiciary. raisi was a key figure in that repression. he is likely to be replaced by someone who comes from a similar background. amna: less than a minute left,

but i have to ask about what one gentleman said in the report, that raisi's death could empower embolden the resistance within iran. do you see that happening? suzanne: i think it's an opportunity, and iranians have very few opportunities to both celebrate and dream of something different for their country. i look forward to seeing what may happen in tehran and around the country in the coming weeks. amna: suzanne maloney from the brookings institution, thank you for your time. ♪ geoff: cross-examination wrapped up today for michael cohen, donald trump's former lawyer and fixer who is also a central witness in the criminal hush money trial against the former president. mr. trump's lead defense lawyer portrayed michael cohen as a serial liar and someone that has profited by turning against his former boss. the prosecution has rested his

case against the former president. william brangham was in court today and joins us now. the cross-examination of michael cohen ended today, his fourth day on the stand. how else did mr. trump's legal team try to undercut the man that was arguably the most important witness for the prosecution? william: they did what they did a lot of last week as well, which was point out all the times they could when michael cohen said one thing one time and then the opposite another time. they kept bringing up stories of how michael cohen said once upon a time that donald trump had no knowledge of the stormy daniels hush money scheme and now claims that he did. todd blanche again was saying that michael cohen is not motivated to be some truth teller, as he sometimes like to portray himself, but is instead motivated by vengeance and greed. he again brought up how cohen has made millions of dollars off books and podcasts and things

like that. he is arguing that if trump is convicted, cohen will make more money on top of that. he got michael cohen to admit that he at one point stole money from the trump organization. all of these stories are just to reiterate to the jurors that michael cohen is not a trustworthy witness and everything coming out from him , jurors, cannot be believed. cohen himself under this cross-examination reiterated what he has said all along, which is yes, i lied at one point for donald trump, because i was loyal to him and i was under his sway, but i am not anymore and now i telling the am truth. geoff: when it was the trump's legal team turn to present their case, they called attorney robert castillo, who tried to further undercut michael cohen's credibility. what did he have to say on the witness stand? william: costello is a former

terminal prosecutor, now a lawyer in private practice. in 2018 after michael cohen's offices and hotel room and apartment were rated by the fbi with regards to a different investigation, costeo offered himself to cohen as a legal advisor. this was during the time when michael cohen was still saying donald trump had no knowledge of the stormy daniels affair. cohen says that costello to him. like he was part of a pressure campaign by rudy giuliani, who costello is close with, and by donald trump to make sure that michael cohen never changed the story. on the stand today costello said , when i first met michael cohen, he said i have nothing on donald trump to offer any authorities, donald trump knew nothing about the stormy daniels business. he said michael cohen was somewhat manic and near suicidal, and he rejected any notion he had been trying to

pressure cohen to change his story. costello's testimony was something of a last-minute addition and he was truly a cantankerous and feisty witness. at several times today he expressed verbal displeasure with the judge's comments, with the judge sustaining certain objections. at one point the judge was so perturbed by the way costello was behaving that he cleared the court room and gave costello a tongue lashing, saying in my courtroom you will not behave this way, you will uphold the koran, you will not be giving me any side eye, and if this keeps going, there will be repercussions. the jury was brought back in and costello finished his testimony. he will still be on the stand for more cross-examination tomorrow. geoff: in the less than 30 seconds we have, walk us through the timing for the rest of the trial. expected to wrap up as early as next week? william: that was the plan originally, that we would be done this week, but the judge

did not want to have a circumstance where this week the jury got to hear the closing arguments from both sides and then sat basically with that information for the entire memorial day weekend. he said because costello's testimony ran a little long, we are going to push this off and have closing arguments tuesday after memorial day. geoff: that is william brangham again in new york city for us. william, thank you. william: thanks, geoff. ♪ amna: rapid advancements in artificial intelligence continue as companies roll out new products sparking both wonder and concern. over the past week, openai unveiled its next generation chatbot, or chatgpt 4.0. the new ai assistant can respond to voice, text, and visual commands in real time. as in this presentation when engineers asked it to tell a bedtime story. >> oh, a bedtime story about

robots in love? i've got you covered. gather round, barrett. once upon a time-- >> i want maximum emotion, maximum expressiveness. much more than before. >> understood. let's amplify the drama. once upon a time -- >> can you do this in a a robotic voice now? >> initiating dramatic robotic voice. once upon a time -- amna: openai actually paused the use of that particular virtual voice after some pointed out its similarity to the robot voiced by scarlett johansson in the movie "her." >> good morning, theodore. you have a meeting in five minutes. you want to try getting out of bed? good, i'm funny. i want to learn everything about everything. amna: google unveiled a new ai powered search function this for more on that and all these developments, we are joined by the editor-in-chief of the verge

and host of the decoder podcast. let's start with google, the most visited website in the world, making major changes to how people search the web. users will now see an ai generated answer to their search. how big a deal is that? >> it's a momentous change for how the web works today. a lot of websites you visit are driven by the need for google traffic. it's up to 30% or more of most big websites' traffic comes from google. when google keeps more traffic for itself, that changes the economics of putting content on the web and shifts some content to platforms like facebook, youtube, and instagram, and will shake up how the web has organized its structure. instead of getting links from google, publishers might try to get their way into the ai previews. google has a big question to answer around what is the incentive to put new content on the web is if it is just going to synthesize that content and present it to people searching

for free. i talked to google about this. he said it is a paradigm shift, there are going to be changes. amna: you described the reaction of people who make websites as fundamentally apocalyptic. why? nilay: the web has reached a steady-state over the last 25 , 30 years where people put up websites, google indexes the websites, we allow google to do that because it is considered fair use, and in return google sends traffic to websites. it is a huge portion of traffic for a lot of websites on the internet, google search traffic. if google starts to keep the traffic for themselves, a lot of businesses will fail. amna: what about this new chatbot, chatgpt, that openai just revealed? we saw a brief demo. is this the model of how all of us will be interacting with our tech one day? nilay: it is the vision.

google unveiled something similar called project astra. the idea you have a multimodal search interface with a phone in your hand and it is talking to you about what it sees. you can ask questions. it has a personality. openai is really leaning into the personality factor. what we haven't seen is a huge leap in terms of accuracy. because the chatbot's are very good at language, you can build these projects that are very convincing. they can talk to you, have personalities, you motor. they can do different image generation and recognize videos of broken toys in your home and tell you how to fix them. the flipside is language and intelligence are not 100% correlated, maybe not at all correlated. you see a gap in demos where you ask a question and it is very confident in what it tells you but it is sometimes wrong. i think that is that thing that will hold these kinds of products back from widespread adoption. they have to get better at being accurate. i think we are seeing incredible

advances in facility with language and a steady state in terms of intelligence. amna: meanwhile, microsoft, we should mention, is also going to make its own big ai announcement this week. what do we expect to hear from them? nilay: today microsoft has unveiled a of ai pcs. they have a chip that they claim will be faster than the chip in apple's product that has been standard in the industry for a long time. and they are rolling out a new version of windows. programs built for consumers, including recall, which is fascinating where the operating system of windows watches along with you as you use your computer. you can ask it questions. as you play games, you can talk about what you are seeing in the game. you can ask it about what is on the screen in the game. as you are using the applications on your pc and you , ask for help, it can help. this has been the dream for a long time.

you will have an intelligent agent on your computer helping you use that computer. microsoft took the first steps to that today with the copilot pcs. it seems very compelling. i have a lot of questions about privacy and security and where that data is going and who is tracking and who has access to it. microsoft said it is local on the pc but i want to test to make sure that is actually true. amna: you mentioned privacy and accuracy concerns with some of the other ai functions. how much insight do you have as someone who covers this into where all of the concerns rank in terms of how quickly some of these tech firms are pushing out new products? is not -- is that a shared concern? nilay: i don't think that concern ranks nearly highly enough. i think what you are seeing is an extraordinary battle between big tech pressure for the first time in a long time from openai, from one another, and they are racing to capture the

market share. in a few weeks, apple is going to roll out new ai features in the new version of ios for the iphone. we will see them partner with openai in a way that may cut into some of their privacy promises. we will see what they claim. that is all because of the pressure that this is a paradigm shift on the order of multiple. -- of mobile, on the order of social networking. if you get left behind, you are going to lose a ton of market share. amna: that is nilay patel, editor-in-chief of the virgin host of the decoder podcast. -- editor-in-chief of the verge and host of the decoder podcast. thanks for being with us. geoff: as donald trump criminal hush money trial nears its conclusion, high-profile republican supporters continue to make appearances to the new york city courthouse to show their support for the former president. is this the new litmus test for gop candidates? one of the questions for our

politics monday team. amy walter of the cook political report with amy walter and tama ra keith with npr. let's start there with this stream of gop elected leaders who have been making the pilgrimage to the new york city courthouse to speak out in support of donald trump. what should we make of this? these elected leaders say they are there to speak on behalf of mr. trump because he can't speak on his own behalf because of the gag order. >> they are delivering the message that the former president wants to have delivered. a message that both with their presence and their words is saying this trial is not serious. this trial is a witchhunt or a democratic prosecutor run amok. by making that pilgrimage up there, often dressed in the trump uniform, they are standing behind him quite literally and signaling certainly to republican base voters, it's ok, you don't need

to worry about this thing. no matter how it turns out, this is fine. don't worry. geoff: amy, speaker mike johnson's appearance is notable given the constitutional heft of his office. he is effectively leveraging his speakership and the symbolic weight and significance that carries against the justice system. >> yes, although i would argue that really what he is trying to do by going there showing support is trying to keep his own job. we know the role that donald trump can play in keeping the fractious republican party together, and in fact, he was pretty much responsible for making sure the congresswoman, -- making sure that congresswoman marjorie taylor greene's call to oust mike johnson failed. he put out on truth social that she is really great and everything but now is the time

for us to come together. don't vote to oust the speaker. he had a very important note at the end of that missive where he said, we may at some point need -- at some point it very well may be the case that he needs to be ousted. that is not now. so ultimately if you are mike johnson, you know that literally every day your ability to keep your job depends on getting the support of the former president. geoff: at the same time, the big -- the so-called big lie about the 2020 election has now become this big litmus test for republicans and has expanded to their willingness to accept the results of the 2024 election. senator marco rubio was on meet the press yesterday and would not accept or commit to accepting the 2024 results. >> will you accept the elect -- the election results of 2024 no matter what happens?

>> no matter what happens? no, if it is an unfair election, it can be contested by either side. >> no matter who wins. >> i think you are asking the wrong person. the democrats have opposed every republican victory since 2000. geoff: he is not the only one. senator tim scott would also not commit to accepting the results of the 2024 election. this has become party orthodoxy now. >> this is similar to language that many republicans, including mike pence, landed on after the 2020 election and before january 6. they did not want to go all the way as far as trump was going and sadie election -- and say the election was stolen, but they wanted to say, you should look into it. and what they are saying here is, we will support the results if it is a fair election. it is worth noting that former president trump really only thanks an election is fair if he wins. i will remind you that after 2016, he won, and then claimed there was voter fraud in california and new hampshire

because he did not win those states. he is someone who has a very lengthy proven track record of denying election results. and now you have republicans out there, mainstream republicans, creating a permission structure, saying if it is fair, then maybe i will support the results. they are not willing to commit in advance, and that creates a permission structure for mainstream republican voters to say, if they are ok with this, then i can be ok with this. geoff: we know how damaging this denialism is for our democracy. how does it play clinically? is there political utility in republicans rallying around this issue? what does it do for moderate republicans or centrist voters who are going to be the swing deciders in this election? >> when you see folks like marco rubio or the other candidates you discussed going on tv and answering questions like this, they are not speaking to voters , they are speaking to an

audience of one, donald trump. many of them are essentially in tryouts to be the vice president. what we know about this president, it has always been the case but i think it has even ratcheted up in the most recent time period, that he looks for loyalty above all else and especially in his vice president, the person that will be with him if he gets back to the white house. he wants to make sure that no matter what, this person is going to stand with him. i think we are going to see similar loyalty tests all the way down to any office that would get filled by a political appointee, should donald trump win the election to a second term. geoff: let's talk about the debates because i think the news broke last wednesday. it was after we had a chance to speak with you both last monday. the first scheduled debate is six weeks away in june on cnn. the rival campaigns have skirted around the commission on presidential debates.

tam, what is the risk-reward calculus for both sides? having this debate in a studio, no audience. >> both trump and his team and biden and his team think his opponent cannot stand there for 90 minutes and conduct a debate without embarrassing themselves, falling asleep, slurring words, you name it. they think their opponents are incapable of going into a debate. that is part of the calculus on both sides. what i will say is that on the biden side, i have spoken to people close to the biden campaign. they really believe and have been saying it for months that people are not focused on the campaign. when donald trump said anytime, anywhere, they said let's do it in june because we want people to start paying attention to the choice and be aware of the stakes in the election. that is the theory the biden campaign is operating under. their numbers will improve when people realized that yes, in fact joe biden and donald trump

are the candidates. they are trying to jump ahead of conventions, which would be a traditional time when people would become more aware of the election. geoff: amy, how do you see it? is june too early for a debate that will matter? >> if you are the biden campaign, it's not too early. you need to shake this race up. if anything, the decision by the biden campaign to accept this debate shows they know they are running behind or at least not in the position they want to be for an incumbent president. they need to turn this election from one that's a referendum on biden to one that's a choice between biden and trump. the risk is that either it doesn't work and now it is june and the numbers don't move very much and the president goes into his convention a few weeks later with an even more depressed and anxious base of voters. and trump is able to go into his convention with a lot of wind at his back.

so there is i think a very big risk for biden here that it doesn't go as planned. but if the biden campaign, as tam pointed out, their entire theory of the case is that this has to be made clear that it is a choice. that that choice has to be put in front of voters as quickly as possible and as often as possible. geoff: amy walter and tamara keith, thanks to you both as always. >> you're welcome. ♪ amna: some 50 years into her career and almost 90 years old, artist lorraine o'grady was recently honored with the prestigious guggenheim fellowship. if that sounds like an honor delayed, must of her career has played out with a slow burn. with her first ever museum

retrospective at wellesley college, she looks back at her long path to acceptance in the art world. our special correspondent from wgbh in boston has the series for our arts and culture series, canvas. >> in her work and in life she has long confronted a world of black and white. in her own art making, but also in racism, including what she experienced working at the bureau of labor of statistics in the 1950's. >> even though we were all intellectuals and they saw me as an intellectual, they could not imagine a black intellectual or a black female intellectual. they had not seen it, and that was because the black middle class was being willfully ignored. jared: but she would not be ignored, and over the last years she established her voice. and then she decided to be seen. in the 1970's and 80's, she

became an artist herself zeroing in on the new york art world by reinventing herself as a conceptual and performance artist. >> those fields did not have a history. that meant that you could make a history. you could make the present and the future. jared: and make career defining statements. the art world at the time was deeply divided along racial lines, so o'grady called it out. she invaded new york city art spaces under the guise of mademoiselle bourgeoise noire. a fictional character o'grady devised with a back story, that she'd been crowned miss black middle class complete with crown, sash and a gown comprised of white gloves. it was a vision that had come to o'grady after many encounters with what she describes as the safe, white art world. >> i said, oh that's what art was. it was art with white gloves on. this piece had two motivations, the kind of introduce myself as an artist and to answer the

white art world. >> she is an icon. she is one of the most prominent contemporary conceptual artists that we have among us. jared: nikki greene is an associate professor of art history at wellesley college, it's o'grady's alma mater. on view now at the college's davis museum, is her first-ever retrospective. coming nearly half a century into the now 89-year old artist's career. >> because of lorraine's persistence over the last four decades, i think people have finally seen the light in many ways. jared: gallery after gallery reveals o'grady's argument that the world is so much more than black-and-white. cross-pollination courses through her work. the trunk of a palm tree crowned by for tree branches. -- by fir trees branches.

a family album that features egyptian queen nefertiti alongside the artist's sister devonia. harlem parade attendees suddenly framed as art. so are they simply joyous bystanders or the subject of a portrait? is it a fir tree or palm tree? royalty or family? the answer as o'grady has argued time and again is both/and. the name of this show. >> she always had a sense of a kind of duality in her own personal heritage. being black but also having ancestry of european descent. being american but living at home with parents who had very accents.” -- you had very strong jamaican accents. jared: in 1982, o'grady depicted her life in a one-day only performance in central park. called rivers first draft or the woman in red, a figure emerges from her blended new england and caribbean black round -- caribbean background. >> the key moment is when she

sees a white stove and realizes it's now or never and she begins to paint it her own color. she pains it red. it's me becoming an artist. jared: for her project titled art is, o'grady hired dancers and actors toting gilt frames to join the annual afro-american day parade in harlem. mademoiselle bourgeoise noire was there, but the greater focus was on the community, wre parade-goers joyously made themselves the art. >> when one thinks of an ornate gold frame, often they're thinking of precious fine art, perhaps from the renaissance or baroque era. so taking a gilted frame means you are the finest, most precious art as well. jared: less precious to o'grady, the new york times. in one of her most famous series, she spent successive sundays cutting out headlines, words and phrases, restructuring them into her own poetry. >> we see it too in quilts.

i think that's probably one of the most beautiful examples and visible examples of how this cutting and pasting and stitching can really create something on its own that's completely new and iovative. jared: for o'grady's latest work, she has gone back to the beginning, remembering statues of both athena and joan of arc that adorned her boston high school, she commissioned her own suit of armor. and in making this, she's also going back to her creative roots, fusing renaissance armor with a caribbean palm tree. >> i never know which part of my body is getting me into trouble and which part of my mind is getting me out of it. so i said, i see an image that's the opposite. i knew i needed in the position of the body, i needed europe. in the position of the mind, i needed the caribbean. jared: for lorraine o'grady, the sum of her parts is as great as the whole, or as she would put

it, both/and. for the pbs newshour, i'm jared bowen in wellesley, massachusetts. geoff: join us again here tomorrow night when we will have our interview with the late-night host bill marr. that is the newshour for tonight. amna: on behalf of the entire newshour team, thank you for joining us. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- ♪ >> cunard is a proud supporter of public television. on a voyage with cunard, the world awaits. a world of flavor, diverse destinations, and immersive experiences. a world of leisure, and british style.

all with cunard's white star service. >> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant, and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org. and with the ongoing support of these institutions. ♪ this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.] >> this is pbs newshour west, from weta studios in washington and from our bureau at the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university.

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