georgian capital against a proposed new law. opponents say it will punish critics and restrict media. what is behind the legislation? this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program. a bill making its way through the georgian parliament is causing anger. it would require to register

with the state. the government insisted will bring more transparency but opponents say it's the way to crack down on critics. thousands protested outside parliament demanding it be withdrawn. the president is against the bill and has threatened to veto the measure. >> no one needed this law. he came from nowhere. maybe it was dictated from moscow. it needs to go. i said from the first day i would veto the law. >> it can be overruled by parliament but the government may face other hurdles. the foreign policy chief says the bill is incompatible with eu battles and but have serious consequences for relations.

washington is also opposed. >> we are deeply concerned and troubled for what this could mean for the people of georgia, but also because the united states has been a partner in recent decades and have made tremendous progress in becoming the democracy they saw from those days and integrating georgia into the euro-atlantic community and making sure stays on the path. we see a draft piece of legislation that would be a tremendous setback. >> it would be a setback to the ability of the united states to continue to be a partner. >> before we start, we reached out for a representative but

were unable to get anyone to appear. >> let's bring in our guests from london. i politician and founder. warm welcome to you all. thank you for joining us. what exactly is behind this legislation? >> it's part of the overall context, shifting from important , historically predetermined path or there have been serious question marks, who is behind the russian oligarch informally ruling this country?

after the war started, questions of disappeared and the answer is clear. he is a russian guy under prunes control who is moving georgia into russia direction and away from the european perspective, which has become more realistic. although strands have caused -- the legislation has turned out to be a redline for many different groups in georgia, political parties, even people who are loyal to the current government. it was a united, overwhelming

unification pro western forces saying georgia will not be like russia. those organizations like russia are disappearing. i am sitting at the central office, watching many groups of young people, it's continuing. people are committed to defend their european future. >> was expected the bill would pass overwhelmingly? >> it's worth noting, the point

is correct the way the law has been interpreted. russia has used foreign agent law's it has used two shut down independent groups. this law has been proposed by a faction that broke away from the party but is essentially controlled by people's power and aligned with the former prime minister. the government play fast and loose and said the vote would not be held yesterday, then table the vote. politics are highly fractious. i large portion has boycotted over controversial measures, the government has the votes to get them through and engages in stage management to make it look like democratic processes are

being followed. >> we know brussels is considering e.u. membership. how much would impede closer ties and for a potential membership? >> representatives have made clear it would jeopardize the european perspective. remember that georgia applied for candidate status in february along with ukraine and moldova. it was turned down for candidate status and given something of a substitute and given a list of things they would have to achieve before getting candidate status. that had separated them from other applicant statuses.

the heart is not in the process. the european union clearly said you are jeopardizing the path is illustrative of the fact the government is not committed and people have argued why it is and some have traced it back. george's rule de facto by an oligarch. he made russia in the 1990's and has power but not responsibility. >> did you want to jump in? >> i was nodding in agreement. the point to the heart of the

issue. he is taking certain actions to stop georgia proceeding down the path is a fair and just common. to what extent is he boil to the current criminal? that is a nuanced issue. while he did make his money in russia before putin came to power, boudin did allow him to leave for georgia with his money to sell all the number of interests, but he put his own interests before anyone else's and theses the government needs to avoid getting drawn in to the pro-western narrative, he has stopped the government from implementing sanctions although the majority of institutions comply with them, in georgia if you go shopping, you would have

to agree russia is an occupier, so public support is strong. he sees it as risking georgia being brought into the war, russia continues to occupy 20% of territories. he is trying to play game with both sides. is it because he wants to be friends with moscow or defend his own position? miss actions like this continue to happen, in the eyes of youth and a large section of the population, he is letting himself be branded as putin's puppet. that is dangerous in a country

where moscow was extremely unpopular. >> the president has said she is prepared to veto the bill. as i understand it, that can be overridden by parliament. i want to ask as far as procedure, where does the bill go from here? things seem very tense, there were fistfights. what happens next? >> is my colleagues outlined, the whole story is about the kind of rule in georgia. no matter the motivation, whether its direct instructions from the kremlin or motivation to do anything to give power,

it's clear the influence of russia over the years has been increasing in this country, he is pursuing russian propaganda. he created a special group within his party which is all the time occupied with attacking european and american ambassadors and taking your crane officials in making the point that ukraine is losing the war, russia is strong, all of those narratives are close to with what russia is saying. that's on the one hand. on the other hand, like in russia, we have the parliament, the court system.

in georgia, we have none of them. we have political prisoners, head of the media who was arrested right before the decision. the third president we had many palooka prisoners. whether it is veto or he fears debates in the parliament, the law will be enforced. to what extent with a resist this adoption of the law. yesterday in the days before have shown it was the last

straw, people are fed up with oppression and are serious. i don't know, but it's clear no government in georgia has managed to derail commitment to european futures. >> on i will give you the chance to jump in. these protests are ongoing and i want to ask you how significant protests are and if you expect they will be growing. >> the protists are significant. i would expect that there have been protests on a number of issues over many years. the government has been in power for a decade. you might say there is an important context in political history. protests occurred in every country, but in georgia they

have a tendency to trigger major shifts in government. this led to a power shift in georgia and similarly, the successors are all learning to be wary of future protests that take place as a catalyst for regime change in government losing control. they've all taken place at the exact same spot. no government can ignore these types of protests. the level of force being used has been disproportionate, it's been a major own goal not only domestically, it displays weakness that they are not able

to enter into a dialogue. that is the way they're looking at georgia. medieval becomes -- and loses its interest and i think that is suggested by many people in georgia, that is why you see this emotional response even if it requires strong protest. >> want to ask you about a different type of protest. civil society groups announced

if a law is passed eventually, they are not going to comply. it will have a chilling >> we have to do all we can to resist, i think there are two processes we should follow. one is disobedience. if everyone refuses to comply, it will be difficult for them. they can still follow with restrictive measures, the total

disobedience will have a serious effort. the other road is international friends. personal sanctions war against the west and ukraine and undermining georgian democracy and personal sanctions against international presser. it's an important factor. it is not just a tiny problem in a tiny country, but in the region, if we're talking about the war in ukraine, for want to find new solutions, for our

friends. there are two ways. >> how much of a chilling effect do you think this legislation could have when it comes to civil society groups and journalists? what do you think it happened? >> it could have a very chilling effect. georgia has a vibrant media sphere, alex r heavily politicized either in favor or against, many outlets to get international funding but this has helped set georgia apart and made georgia such a leader in the region. they have been a number of

officials who went through the programs, the real risk i worry about is russia, boudin has been adept at using her option and political elites to try and lean on them and get the action he wants even in countries that have economic relations with the west and we may see independence fall, the government is left with nowhere else to look. there has been a huge amount of ronnie coming in. of course, accusations that georgia could serve as a loophole for sanctions.

this could weaken the ability to have the opposition against him and raise the prospects next year which will be less democratic. that will be a huge tragedy for the georgian people. many georgians want to have a continued role going forward. >> did you want to jump in? >> it is discouraging for many georgians because they do not see an exit strategy, those things make it very difficult for any opposition, the

politically organized opposition is fragmented. one of the key leaders is in prison. this law is seen as an attempt to close out the small civil society to critique the government. the government polarized society and divided into patriots who support the government and anyone critiquing the government is anti-georgia. that's not only polarizing but look government is not going to fund organizations who are interested. who's going to fund an organization who's looking at corruption? this is dangerous. most realize it's a critical

crossroads, they see the path opening up with moldova status being accepted, they see it being possible but taken away. >> let me pick one boy. i want to ask, how necessary is it for these groups that monitor government activities? how much are they depended to continue the work they are doing? what support for basic they are

supported financially by our partners there is no level playing field. the government has concentrated resources. they are pressuring businesses not to support critical point of view. there are institutions under his control. it's aimed at killing all of the remaining resources in georgia, that is why they are fighting

after polarization, now the time has come to eliminate media and ngos. everyone understands it's not just about ngos but the future of democracy in europe. >> it looks to me like you want to interject? go ahead. >> 1.i want to add to that is this is a broad piece of legislation. understand the language around

the way the government is trying to demean those involved. this is our version of the farm registration act. here in the u.k. where there is an attempt to build up a lobby register. this is a version similar to what has been introduced in russia more than a decade ago, using this as a total to remove them from the political space. >> we have one minute left.

one last question, how do you foresee this playing out tomorrow >> as i said, it is discouraging. as i said, they cannot cna's strategy. the longer view of georgian history ms. they lose them by not reflecting the will of the people, this has been consistently over many decades been towards europe. in majority of people -- the government is taking them away from the path. the government itself is positioned.

>> we have to leave the conversation. thank you for watching. you can see the program any time by visiting our website and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. you can also join the conversation on facebook. for me and the whole team, goodbye for now.

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