that's our report. thanks for watching. i'm john seigenthaler. due to mature subject matter viewer discretion is advised. msnbc takes you behinded walls 6 america's most notorious prisons into a world of chaos and danger. now the scenes you've never seen, "lockup: raw." >> on the ground. >> we're going to run military style. strict. >> before any inmate sees the inside of a prison, he's most first seen the inside of a jail. >> i'm just sitting in a room. i don't know if it's night or daylight. >> and nothing about jail is for

the faint of heart. for some, jail is the ultimate limbo between freedom and a life behind bars. even worse. >> i've accepted the fact that a potential outcome of trial could be a death sentence. >> and for better or worse, time in jail changes everyone. >> i'm afraid of how long he's already been in jail and that it would change him. i hope it doesn't change his heart. >> there are distinct differences between america's prisons, and jails. prison is for inmates convicted of crimes and are now serving sentences. while some jail inmates are also serving sentences, the majority are not convicted, but are being held awaiting trial for the

resolution of the charges for which they were arrested. there is another difference that has made jails a rich source of stories for "lockup." >> unlike a prison where most of the population comes from across the state, in jail, most of the offenders come from the local area. they know each other. they reflect the personality of the city itself and no better example of that is when we filmed inside suffolk county jail, boston, massachusetts. >> he's boston. get familiar. don't get it twisted. he's boston in this. >> in boston, we almost got to learn the lay of the land because people talk so much about the different neighborhoods in the area they were from. everyone in boston was proud of their neighborhood and different represents it once they were inside and kind of stuck to the people that they knew from their

neighborhoods inside. >> i'm boston. he's boston. charlestown. >> he's boston. >> do you know -- >> how many movies have they made on east boston? >> listen, you know the movie "the rat." whitey bulger. >> no, he ain't! >> yes, sir, that's all he's got. that's all he's got. >> chelsea. >> you live in chelsea? >> see you later. >> i'm out of here. >> the inmates in boston shared more than neighborhood pride. they also knew how to throw a punch. >> every day. we respond to fights every day, sometimes they're one-on-one fights, sometimes multiple detainees are involved. >> got hit with a tread. >> he beat the [ bleep ] out of me. >> we just stomped him.

>> on numerous occasions, the "lockup" production team would be in the middle of an interview when a fight call would come over a deputy's radio. >> however, we've had him down. got to go. be right back. right back. got to run. >> you guys must do a lot of running if you're looking at fights. >> we just took the camera off the tripod, grab the boom as much as we can as quickly as possible and we head off to see what's going on. >> lock in, guys. lock in now. >> we told the stories behind several of the fights that broke out in boston during our "extended stay" series. but there were others, as well. one involved two haitian immigrants who had known each other outside of jail. one of them was frank jones. >> what happened, sir?

>> i don't know. people come to me and fight me. i don't know what it is. he just kept fight me. he drop me on the floor. this is -- this is not right. i want to see him first. i don't know -- i don't fight him back. he don't fight me. i don't know who this is. >> jules told the responding deputies that he was atacked by surprise and did nothing to provoke the fight. later, captain michael callwell reviewed jail surveillance footage and confirmed jules' account. >> and what you'll notice, this gentleman mr. john baptiste is just coming into view, and it's an unprovoked attack on mr. jules. mr. jules, from our perspective, and from the officers' observation, never fought back to defend himself.

detainee jules did not see the attack coming. and you can see that mr. jean baptiste really manhandles him for quite some time, actually launching a flying kick there. >> i never do nothing to you. why would you just come to beat me and take me, drop me on the floor like that. like someone who you're trying to kill me, right? so why? my neck, i can't move it. and now i feel headache. i feel headache. and then keep -- >> while jules said the attack was unprovoked jean baptiste told jail officials he was acting on a long-held brung from the streets. >> inmate jean baptiste blamed inmate jules for his previous incarceration. i don't know what happened on the street between them but he blamed everything on inmate jules. apparently he's been waiting two years to get his hands on him. >> both inmates went to the seg unit.

inmate jules was found not guilty, and he was released from the seg unit and put back in population the next day. inmate jean baptiste served 20 days in seg for that particular fight. >> i kind of feel good now, you know what i'm saying? i'm not going to lie. i feel good. >> so it's over? >> yeah. >> it's done? >> it's done. >> what if he retaliates? >> i just hope he don't try and get at me. i'm good. >> okay. >> you thought it was over, huh? >> nearly every fight will have two different perspectives and getting a complete picture of what happened poses a challenge for deputies. >> on the ground. >> an attack in the shower between inmates adidas maston and brad flowers proved to be no exception. >> slow everybody down.

we have two restraints. coming up -- >> he cut me >> where? >> above my eye. >> suffolk county deputies attempt to unravel the fight between maston and flowers. and another boston inmate shares jailhouse superstitions. >> i don't write my name anywhere in the jail because if you write your name in the jail, you're going to come back.

we'll hear a radio call. they usually have to state signals when a disturbance breaks out and we just go. we don't have any idea how it's going to play out. it could be over by the time we get there, it could still be going on but we have to respond. most of the time we encounter the responding officers and in that case we follow in close behind and let the story unfold.

>> during our weeks of shooting, "lockup: extended stay" in boston's suffolk county jail, we often trailed deputies as they responded to a multitude of inmate fights. >> everybody don't. >> don't move. >> into this cell. >> okay? [ bleep ] >> what was that all about? >> i didn't even swing. >> what was that all about? >> basketball target. >> this fight was between inmates brad flowers and adidas maston. it occurred in the shower area, out of view of the jail's hundreds of surveillance cameras. >> turn around. put your hands through the trap. >> lieutenant keith madderous, one of the first officers on the scene, did see something important. >> i observed inmate mastons throwing punches and exchanging

closest punches with inmate flowers. during the restraint he did drop a metallic object which was identified as a nail clipper which we believe was being used as a weapon. >> most inmates will get 10 to 15 days in segregation for fighting. but the sanctions could be more severe if a weapon was involved. in this case, flowers seemed to suffer the worst of the fight with a thin cut over his left eye. lieutenant madderos will question both men to determine what happened. he starts with maston who says the incident actually didn't start in the shower, but earlier in the gym. >> what was that all about? >> over a game in the gym. >> a game? what happened? >> nothing. he was losing and i got hit so started swinging and that's it. >> so the basketball game got a little rough? >> mm-hmm. >> you started talking smack to each other? disrespect each other or something? >> yep. >> so you just went back and

decided to handle it? >> hum. >> who was in the shower? >> just me and him. >> who was in the shower first? >> he was. >> what about the nail file i found on you? >> you can check my radio. you can see there's no blood on it. nothing at all. you can check me. >> he's got a cut over his right eye. he says you cut him with a weapon. >> check it out. >> i'm just letting you know. >> okay. >> mm-hmm. >> close 9, please. 7, please. >> lieutenant maderos will now hear the other side of the story from mr. flowers. >> mr. flowers, what happened? >> argument. >> an argument. >> yeah. >> where did the argument start? >> in the gym. >> in the gym? >> uh-huh. >> you guys had gym this morning? >> uh-huh. >> okay. and then what happened? came back to the unit and what? >> when i was getting out of the shower, he snuck in, tried to cut my face. >> did he cut you? >> yeah. >> where at? >> above my eye.

>> why is this popping off today? >> there's been some indirect [ bleep ], you know what i'm saying, like [ bleep ]. we was in the gym and i guess one thing led to another. i guess he snubbed me. >> yeah? that happened in the gym? >> arguing. >> don't lie to me. something happen in the gym between the two of you guys? fighting? be straight with me because you know i'm going to look at the cameras. >> it was no [ bleep ] >> were you fighting in the gym? >> nothing happened in the gym but words. i was just saying [ bleep ] to him. >> okay. so you guys had words -- >> i offered him to fight me in the gym. >> but he didn't? >> he didn't want to fight me in the gym. >> i appreciate you cooperating with me. >> one of the hardest parts of the officer's job is to get information out of the inmates after a fight, or any kind of situation occurs where disciplinary reports are being written up. it's kind of a rule of thumb for inmates not to talk to the staff about anything really.

you know, you don't want to be labeled a snitch. no one wants to be seen that they're working with the cops. >> with neither inmate providing details the jail gave both men time in the confinement unit. while many inmates in boston settle disputes with their fists, there are other stories to be told there as well. >> when we produce one of our "extended stay" series for "lockup," our crew will be in a prison or a jail for up to 50 days in order for us to produce six episodes. they will interview more than 100 inmates and maybe 20 or so will actually make it on the air and then sometimes we meet an inmate who plays a very small role in somebody else's story and they just appear in the show ever so briefly. but those inmates have stories to tell as well. and one of the advantages of "lockup: raw" is that we get to tell those stories. >> during the boston series, we

told the story of melissa allen, and how her struggles with drugs led to a host of problems for her and her family. >> all this is the dirty work. walk the street, sell drugs, do all that. a couple streets down, that's where i live. and they've put me in a room i can see everything i did. >> but inside suffolk county, melissa was striving to improve her life, in part, by studying for her g.e.d. that's how we met megan duly. she was voluntarily tutoring melissa. >> ten times number? you add a zero to a number. 10. >> 30, 40, 50, 60 -- >> yes. >> she doesn't know the multiplication tables. i do. that's something i excelled in when i was in school. i have a job as a bookkeeper and everything else. so math is one of my better skills, you know.

>> when we asked megan about why she wanted to help melissa with her schoolwork, she said it was because of her father. he influenced her to want to help people and do good and she was able to find a way to do that inside the jail. >> he was sober for 18 months when he died and i used to just watch him at meetings and stuff and young guys would come in wanting to go to a detox and my father would be the first person to say, i'll give you a ride. no questions asked. not even knowing them, just to help them out. and he always told me, if you can't help somebody, don't hurt them. and treat people how you want to be treated. that's one thing that my father instilled in me before he passed away. >> i don't know what it is, honey. i have no idea. >> like her father, megan had struggled with her own addictions. her use of heroin had led to several jail stays. on minor convictions ranging from sex for a fee to disturbing the peace. but this time, the stakes were more serious.

she was awaiting trial on five drug possession charges, as well as being co-defendant on an armed robbery charge. she had pled not guilty to all six charges. >> what kind of book am i looking at right now? >> megan was due in court the next day and was doing everything possible to not tempt fate. in the process, we learned something about jailhouse superstitions. >> i won't start a new book if i know i'm going to court or getting out, without having enough time to finish it. because i feel like if i leave a book unfinished, i'll come back to finish it. i just have superstitions. i don't write my name anywhere in the jail because if you write your name in the jail, you're going to come back. it's just different things. if an officer drops keys in front of you, that means you're going home. last time i went to the review, the officer dropped keys in front of me. but i didn't go home, so i guess that one doesn't work.

anything that i was wearing when i got arrested, i throw away and don't wear it again. >> as it turned out, megan played her cards correctly. the next day in court, her armed robbery charge was lowered to a less serious larceny charge. and even though she was found guilty of that and the drug possession charges, she was released based on the time she had already spent in jail. whether any officers dropped their keys in front of her, we never found out. coming up -- >> all right, no gang affiliation? never have? >> absolutely not. i go to church. if that counts. >> yeah. >> sorting out the new inmates at the orange county jail. >> have you ever tried to hurt yourself before? >> absolutely not. >> are you thinking of hurting yourself right now? >> no, ma'am. feel the power my young friend. mmm! [ male announcer ] for excellent fruit and veggie nutrition... v8 v-fusion, also refreshing plus tea.

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"lockup" field teams encounter unexpected situations on a regular basis. >> you think i'm stupid? >> vicious attacks. >> i've got a knife.

>> don't step in the blood. >> to heartbreaking visits. >> my daddy. >> life behind bars can be an emotional roller coaster but it's when we shoot inside county jails that we get a look at where the ride begins. >> get off of me. >> relax. >> chill out. >> [ bleep ] you. >> virtually every inmate's first incarceration is at a jail, as opposed to a prison. and the booking department is where the reality of being a number, rather than a name, sinks in. >> line up on your right side next to the line. stop talking. pants off your legs, above your knees. let me see your stomach. >> we encountered robert as he was being booked into the orange county jail in southern california. >> okay. go ahead and get dressed again.

>> he was brought in after failing to complete community service for a prior conviction of disturbing the peace. the result of a bar fight. since his community service was in lieu of a five-day jail sentence, he will now have to serve some of that time, and this will be his first full night of incarceration. >> i'm a little nervous. never done it before. don't know what to expect, you know. just trying to keep by myself. keep peace. not trying to get into arguments with anybody. not trying to fight with anybody. you know what i mean. i want to be able to do my time and that's it. >> you look like you're getting a little emotional. >> yeah. >> from here on in, corley's every step is controlled by jail deputies. >> put your back against the wall for me. look up at the here camera for me and i'll take your picture next. these papers are yours to keep. walk on the lines to the right and stop on the red "x" in front of number 8 over there. >> the booking process examines

corley's emotional well-being. >> have you ever tried to hurt yourself before? >> absolutely not. >> are you thinking about trying to hurt yourself now? no, ma'am. >> as well as his physical well-being. >> they have an x-ray to check for tuberculosis. every inmate goes through that process. after that they go through a livescan machine, it's fingerprinting. >> right now we're taking electronic fingerprints that goes into a national database system. it allows us to positively identify the individual. >> and after that step they'll get classified with our classification deputies to determine what type of level inmate they are. >> no gang aville yagss of any kind? >> never have. >> absolutely not. i go to church. if that counts. >> yeah. >> are you homosexual or straight? >> straight. >> tattoos? >> yes, sir. >> what have you got? go ahead and take your shirt off for me. >> the jail also documents tattoos for identification purposes and to determine if the inmate might have gang affiliations. >> what is that? a heart? >> yeah.

it says sabrina. >> just not done yet? >> no, sir. >> what's up with the six-shooter. you a cowboy? >> yes, sir, i was born in missouri. >> all right. that's what it's for? >> yes, sir. i'm an old western. >> nothing else though? >> a girl's face on the back of my right leg. and that's it. >> golly, just keeps coming. calf? on your right calf? >> yes. >> nothing in your hairlines or anything like that? >> no. on my lip i have my initials. >> damn. >> r.c. >> r.c.? what is that in the middle? what's that in the middle? >> it was supposed to say robby but it didn't come out right. >> were you drunk? or what? >> no. >> you did that sober? >> yes, sir. >> all right. all right, let me see your left hand. this is the last time i'm going to see you, right? >> yes, sir. >> corley's tattoos are determined not to be gang affiliated. and he's cleared for a less restrictive general population housing unit. >> all right, man. you're good to go.

>> thank you, sir. >> i.d. pickup. >> but first corley will experience one more sobering step. exchanging his street clothes for jail strubs and plastic sandals. >> let's see what this says. it says we're taking away your freedom right here. >> keep going. >> carly will wait in a holding cell with other new inmates until his housing assignment is finalized. while corley's booking process was routine, many others are emotionally overwhelmed on their first day in jail. >> i'm in the orange county jail. i'm in a room with no windows, no nothing.

i'm veronica de la cruz. here's what's happening. a star-studded crowd gathered to remember whitney houston. her friend and bodyguard co-star kevin costner describes houston as a star who always doubted her talents. but he says she was and will always be more than good enough. gop candidate rick santorum is questioning the president's religious values, saying his agenda is based on, quote, some phony theology. the obama campaign responding this is just the latest blow in a primary field by distortion, and ugliness. i'm veronica de la cruz. now back to "lockup." due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. >> you've got to tell me where to go. >> you've never been to jail before? >> no, i haven't. >> i believe that one. >> neverly every inmate who's done time in state prison has first spent time inside a county jail. and it's a terrifying

experience, especially for first-time offenders. during intake we have hundreds of inmates coming through. you could have a murderer next to a guy who is in for shoplifting. on our first day of filming "extended stay" inside orange county jail in california, we covered the trauma of a young man's first day in jail. >> i'm in the orange county jail. i'm like in a room with no windows, no nothing. nobody -- i don't know what's going on. i don't know. >> when we met 20-year-old richard ruiz, he had already completed the booking process and his first court arraignment and was now engaged in another jailhouse ritual, the first call home. >> so i'm just sitting in a room. i don't know if it's light or daylight. i lose track of time. i get woken up by all of the slamming doors and stuff. like i don't know what's going on in here. i skip all meals because i don't

want to eat. >> ruiz had been arrested 48 hours earlier for the first time in his life, charged with intent to sell narcotics. he hoped his father would be able and willing to bail him out. >> it's $2500. 10% of $25,000 bail. thank you, dad. all right. yep. i love you. bye. he doesn't deserve a phone call from here. but it's all my fault that i'm here. it's no one's fault but myself. >> there's a term that people use called a fish and basically if you're a new booking and you've never been in jail before, it's like you can imagine when you take a fish out of water.

they're just very disoriented, they're lost, they don't know what's going on. luckily they don't flop around. >> honestly, there's probably about $80 worth of pills in my car and it's not worth this. >> what are you thinking about? >> there's so much more than this. just to know that you're stuck somewhere and you have no clue what's going on. in a 10 foot by 10 foot room with no windows. not knowing if it's dark, light outside, it's nothing to look forward to. >> he's a new booking. he's somebody with no criminal experience. he hasn't been here before and then he's been removed from general population so he has nobody to talk to. he can't communicate with anybody. so of course he is scared. >> ruiz had been segregated from

other inmates due to the jewelry implants in his face. >> they're called dermal implants. pretty much what they do is they get a needle, they make a pocket in your face, they push around to make it hollow and they put a plate inside the slit. >> because those piercings, according to him, are irremovable, we don't know that and we don't know what those piercings are capable, once they're taken out they could contain contraband. they could be used as a weapon, could be against himself, against staff or even fellow inmates. >> i have another one on the back of my neck. it's called a surface staple. as you can see, there's a bar through my neck and there's two flat head screwdriver parts to it. >> basically, for mr. ruiz, for him it's been a good thing being isolated because he won't be exposed to a general population setting. he won't be exposed to gang politics. he won't be exposed to inmate pressures. so for mr. ruiz, it might have been a saving grace for him that he actually had piercings and

that he was removed from general population so he doesn't have to answer any of those questions. >> well, as you know, i'm from orange county jail. >> just hours before he would answer to the judge. ruiz used his time in isolation to write a letter to his girlfriend who he had not spoken to since his arrest. >> baby i'm sorry for not picking you up at work. i was in a police car at the time. i hope you're there when i get out. the only thing i can dream or think about is all the right things i'm going to do when i get out. this is too hard for me right now. to be continued. >> okay. we're back in session, back on the record. on case number 10-sf-0604, people versus richard edward ruiz. mr. ruiz is richard edward ruiz jr. your true name? >> yes. >> the following day it's preliminary court hearing ruiz was charged with felony

possession of narcotics which could carry a lengthy sentence behind bars. he entered a plea of not guilty and had one supporter at the hearing, his girlfriend, samantha dunn, who spoke to us afterwards. >> tell me how you found out that your boyfriend was in jail. >> he was supposed to pick me up from work one day and after work i was waiting outside and an hour had passed and he wasn't there and i knew something was wrong. and so when i got home i found out on the internet that he was arrested. >> what are your biggest fears for him right now? >> i'm just afraid that he's in isolation, just completely -- you know, scared and lonely and doesn't know what's going to happen. and on top of that, i'm afraid of how long he's going to be in jail. that's my biggest fear so far. and that it would change him in any way. i hope it doesn't change his

heart. >> i didn't know my girlfriend was going to be in the courtroom. just knowing, some way, i didn't hurt myself, i hurt people that were close, and just -- they are still supportive. it hurts. >> the couple would soon be reunited after ruiz posted bond and was released. he pled guilty at a later court hearing and was sentenced to three years probation. >> do you understand that? >> yes. >> but the memory of his first experience in jail will likely last a lifetime. >> everybody learns the hard way. this is my first time learning. coming up -- >> i've accepted the fact that a potential outcome of trial could be the death sentence. >> we encounter an iraq war veteran accused of murder inside phoenix's maricopa county jail.

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a key difference between shooting in jail and prison is that in prison inmates know their fate. >> come get me out. for real. >> they have pled or been found guilty. and with few exceptions, they know their sentences won't change. >> put your hands on the fence. >> in jail, most of the inmates are still awaiting a trial. their futures are in the hands of lawyers, judges and juries. such was the case with clark fish, who we met at the maricopa county jail in phoenix, arizona, while he was awaiting trial for murder. >> as a producer, it's challenging to find your characters and to find the important stories in a place like maricopa county with 9,000 inmates. so you're always looking for

reasons to talk to people or things that might be interesting. in the case of clark fish, i came across him in a very, very unique way. i was walking past his cell and i saw how his socks had been folded and his socks had been rolled up in a ball with these little smiles. and as a veteran, i knew that's exactly how you folded -- were trained to fold your socks in the military. and so i said, were you in the service? and he goes, yeah, i was in the army. >> i joined the army straight out of high school. it was a conviction of mine because we as a family, a lot of males in the family, have been part of the service. and so i felt it was my obligation, and i was a health care specialist. i had no idea what it meant to be a health care specialist. all i knew is i wanted to do something medical. and i want to work in a hospital with doctors so they told me i'd be doing that. the reality was, i was not a health care specialist but a

pretty name for combat medic. >> one of the challenges is always getting the inmates to share some very intimate details of their lives, and sometimes their crimes. i think in clark's case, the fact that i was a veteran and the fact that he was a veteran really created a bond between us, and he felt comfortable talking to me. >> fish went on to discuss the fear he felt when he was deployed to iraq not long after joining the army. >> i didn't want to go because i didn't want to die. i was too afraid of dying. but also i felt like i had been jilted with the whole health care specialist, it sounded real pretty. >> prior to his deployment, fish requested a discharge and was denied. so he went awol. he was eventually caught and did time in a military jail. >> while i was in jail i had time to think and i said, this doesn't become me or my family to be sitting here in jail, i'm too afraid to go to iraq. i said my dad was in vietnam. i can do this, too.

so i decided, i'm going to do it. and so that was my second chance. so they sent me to iraq. >> in iraq, fish was assigned to an air force base hospital where wounded soldiers arrived daily. >> the only thing i remember specifically is the first guy i treated, he's dead now. and he was a marine. he came in and his arm was damaged. it was totally wrapped up. they're sticking needles and stuff in him and doing procedures on him and i'm helping the nurses as much as i can there. and then the nurse says, hey, if you want to do something for him right now, hold his hand because this is really going to hurt him. the last thing i remember doing is holding his hand for him and he -- and in the throes of his pain, gripped my hand. he was alive enough to feel the extreme amount of pain. but he wasn't able to scream or voice it, and then he got evacuated and died on the way to the hospital in germany. >> after his tour ended, fish

returned to the united states. during a random military drug test, he came up positive for marijuana and was released with an "other than honorable" discharge. soon after, fish says he suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder. >> they put me on medications for it. you start smelling things that you used to smell over there and you start kind of seeing things and you hear an alarm or something and it will trigger something in your mind that puts you into a panic mode like you were over there. >> after his discharge, fish moved back home and got a job at a veterinary clinic. he began to date one of the female doctors who worked there. >> part of the reason that clark was believable is that he seemed to be pretty candid about some of the less flattering aspects of his relationship. he admitted that he was in an abusive relationship. he admitted that he had hit her many times. >> but authorities say that one night the abuse led to murder.

fish admits he and his girlfriend had been fighting. he says everything had calmed down by the time they went to bed. >> i went to sleep, i passed out. i remember putting my head on the pillow, closing my eyes, i woke up in the same exact position i fell asleep in. i know that. i said, beth, we got to get up. and i shook her hand, and when i shook her hand, her hand was just stiff and ridged with rigor mortis, and it was cold. it just had a waxy feeling. i called my dad and my dad called the police. when the police came, i told them the truth. i told them everything i knew. >> the cause of death was eventually ruled asphyxiation due to strangulation and fish was arrested. >> i've accepted the fact that a potential outcome of trial is a guilty verdict from the jury and also along with that verdict could be a death sentence. >> fish stood trial several weeks after we left maricopa.

>> you know, when you meet clark, he's a very likeable guy. he's intelligent, he's affable. everybody likes clark. so you want to believe his version. you want to believe his narrative. but in the end, a jury of 12, reasonable people found that he was guilty of murdering his girlfriend. >> several months after arriving in maricopa, fish received his sentence. though he was eligible for the death penalty, he was given life without the possibility of parole. and has made the permanent move from the maricopa county jail to the arizona state prison system. coming up -- >> stop talking. close that new york mouth for a minute. >> we meet a no-nonsense sergeant who makes a big impression on jail inmates in tampa, florida. >> you give my deputy a hard time, we going to run it military-style strict.

over the years, we have met a number of memorable men and women who work in the nation's prisons and jails. >> just square yourself away. check yourself. knock this off. >> those who stand out the most usually do so because of their straightforward dealings with inmates. >> if you ever going to make it, you're going to have to learn to swallow your pride and learn to take a back seat sometime. those are things that you're going to have to learn if you're going to make it. you've got to learn that. >> long-time viewers will immediately recognize warden grantt culliver as one of the more memorable personalities to ever appear on "lockup." he took a personal interest in all his inmates. but wasn't hesitant to unleash when he felt it was necessary. >> i'm trying to talk to you.

>> you tell me -- you tell me that you would be -- >> if you would shut the [ bleep ] up, then i could understand why we're so pissed off with [ bleep ] you're acting like a child! >> since our last visit to holman, warden culliver has left the prison. he was promoted to associate commissioner with the alabama department of corrections. but when we traveled to the hillsborough county jail in tampa, florida, we met sergeant sarah herman, who seemed to be cast from the same mold. >> you tearing up my property? one-way trip to charlie, dude, and you're never coming out. quiet. stop talking. you don't tell her what to do. close that new york mouth for a minute. jackson, i don't forget something. don't waste my time. how long you been here? okay. don't underestimate miss herman. >> like warden culliver,

sergeant herman was known for being both tough, and compassionate. >> have you been drinking any water? come and get a cup and start drinking some water for me, okay? sometimes when you're sick like that and you're not hydrated, it messes with your mind. >> when sergeant herman would walk into a unit, it was almost as if, you know, a sergeant in the army or something was walking into a barracks. people really, they understood that she was coming in, she meant business. >> attitudes in this pod cease from this moment going forward unless you want to be on 72-hour lock, that means no coming or going. visitation, phone calls will be shut down. if you give my deputy a hard time, we going to run it military-style strict. >> after serving four years in the army, sergeant herman had a career as a media marketing executive. shortly after 9/11, she came to work for the hillsborough county sheriff's office in a quest to find more meaning in her life. >> know this and know it really good, okay? i do not play.

>> she says she has found it working with inmates. >> if you could just touch one with an encouraging word, that makes all the difference. these are our neighbors. this is my community. i live here. a lot of them do see me out at walmart or at the mall and the first thing they want to do is come up and give you a hug and say, that thing that you did, you know, that's what kind of is the reward. that's what you see when you say, okay, this isn't working or this is just a job. no, it's more than just a job. stand by the door. i'm not here to judge them. that's something i do not do. and i try to think positive and display that type of attitude with them as well because a lot of them do not come from a world where they have people speaking positive for them. >> ma'am? >> come in here. >> we captured one such example when sergeant herman was meeting with inmate sonia whose drug use on the street had recently brought her back to jail on her

third parole violation. >> tell me something, what is going to keep you, other than your kids, from not coming here again? >> my plan is actually to complete my g.e.d., finish school, and find me a job to keep myself busy and occupied. >> each day you have to choose and decide what is sonia going to do today. if it doesn't feel right and you know in your gut it's wrong, leave. run. so that was my word for you today. i'm happy to see that you've got your mind set on doing the right thing. >> yes. i thank you and i appreciate it. >> you're welcome. >> thanks. >> when we were filming the exchange between sonia and sergeant herman, i couldn't help but to think that sergeant herman was actually getting through to her. but as soon as she left, the other side of sonia emerged. >> make sure you don't come in here anymore. >> yes, ma'am. >> i don't want to see you in here anymore. >> yes, ma'am. thank you. >> all right, bye. >> bye. >> as we were placing her back

in her pod, i don't know if she was just doing it for show for the other inmates but her comment as i close the door and secure it she says i'm going home and i'm going to smoke a blunt. it makes me very upset. and she knows that i heard her. and she knows that i will probably say something to her a little bit later. was that just a show, or are you just -- are you serious? we'll have to see. you just never know what's going to happen and judging by her history, the odds are stacked against her. >> please raise your right hand. swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? >> and sergeant herman's assessment proved accurate. after hearing of her third parole violation, the judge in her case had had enough. and sent kuerez to state prison in order to complete her six-year sentence. and while change might not have come soon enough for her, a significant change came for sergeant herman. she took a five-week leave during the course of our shoot and explained why when she returned. >> i opted to do a lap band

surgery so i took a leave of absence for about five weeks to get that implanted and done and recoup and come back to work. i may be talking the talk, but i'm overweight and not walking the walk. that's not right. and i'm a field training officer. how am i going to look for new people who are coming in the door, they're all fit and healthy and can outrun me. and i'm the one that's in charge. i think that's a little backwards. miss me? >> though her physical appearance had changed, we quickly discovered that sergeant herman had not lost a step when it came to her no nonsense attitude with inmates. >> you are qualifying every freaken thing that comes out your mouth with an excuse, which means you're not owning it. accept it for what it is. that's a part of who you are. until you decide to change it. you have to change it. you.