cigarettes killed so many more people and the industries behind them fought against regulation but now cars and roads are safer and traffic fatalities have fallen by 50% over the last few decades and our relationship with smoking has been transformed. we can also transform this nation's obsession with guns and we can do so constitutionally. few issues have been more cluttered with disinformation than the second amendment, but the law and the legal community are unequivocal. a letter signed by six former attorneys general says, quote, for more than 200 years the federal government courts have unanimously determined the second amendment concerns only the arming of people in service to an organized state militia. it does not guarantee immediate access to guns for private purposes. in 1973 in eckert v. philadelphia, a federal appeals court rules, appellant's theory is that by the second amendment he's entitled to bear arms. appellant is completely wrong about that. the right to keep and bear arms is not a right given by the

constitution. in 1996 conservative legal icon robert bork wrote the supreme court has consistently ruled that there is no individual right to own a firearm. the founders considered adding the line, the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and they decided against it. when the nra stands behind the second amendment, they are lying. gun control is constitutional, rational, reasonable, commonsensical, widely popular, and absolutely necessary, and if we keep pushing, we will get the reform and the nation we deserve just as the civil rights movement kep pushing when things looked bleak, gun control is just as important and it is just as possible. martin bashir, your witness. >> and that was the reverend dr. toure. thank you. and good afternoon. it's friday, march the 1st, the president has spoken. the sequester is real, and john boehner has gone home.

>> these cuts will hurt our economy, it will cost us jobs, arbitrary cuts. >> while there are smarter ways to cut spending than the process we're about to engage in -- >> it's unnecessary and at a time when too many americans are still looking for work it's inexcusable. >> there are smarter ways to cut spending. >> it will cost about 750,000 jobs. >> there are smarter ways. >> none of this is necessary. it's happening because a choice that republicans in congress have made. >> wile there are smarter ways to cut spending. >> we just need republicans in congress to catch up with their own party and the country on this. >> while there are smarter ways. >> couldn't you just have them down here and refuse to let them leave the room until you have a deal? >> i am not a dictator. i'm the president. i should somehow do a jedi mind meld with these folks. >> why did you wait until friday?

♪ what have i done ♪ >> good afternoon. these cuts were supposed to be so savage, so onerous, so reckless that lawmakers would do anything to avoid them, even compromise. but after a last ditch white house meeting produced no break-throughs whatsoever, house speaker john boehner emerged with his heels firmly dug in against any attempt at a balanced approach to deficit reduction as he just told nbc's david gregory in a sit-down interview taped for this weekend's "meet the press." >> there's no plan from senate democrats or the white house to replace the sequester, and over the last ten months, house republicans have acted twice to replace the sequester. >> in the end you don't really see a pathway here that's open

as you sit here. >> if i did, the meeting at the house might have gone better. >> after that white house meeting boehner spouted mindless talking points for all of 60 seconds, then sauntered off perhaps with a cigarette and cocktail in his future. joining the rest of the house on recess since thursday. as for the president, he not only stayed at work, imagine that, but faced the press for a 35-minute briefing which started with the real cause of the cuts. >> none of this is necessary. it's happening because a choice that republicans in congress have made. they've allowed these cuts to happen because they refuse to budge on closing a single wasteful loophole to help reduce the deficit. >> indeed. with cuts set to impact everything from defense workers to disease control, education to infrastructure, mental health services to meals on wheels, the president seemed genuinely

perplexed as to why republicans cannot, will no meet him anywhere near halfway on the compromises he has offered. >> the fact that they don't take it means that i should somehow, you know, do a jedi mind meld with these folks and convince them to do what's right. this idea that somehow there's a secret formula or secret sauce, if there was a secret way to do that, i would have tried it. >> there's been some debate over the president's conflating jedi mind tricks with vulcan mind melds but i'm not sure we want a president who knows the precise difference and in any case perhaps the president does know exactly what stands in the way of his powers of persuasion. >> i recognize that it's very hard for republican leaders to be perceived as making concussions to me. if there was something else i

could do to make these guys -- i'm not talking about the leaders but maybe some of the house republican caucus members not paint horns on my head. >> unfortunately, i'm not sure there is much the president can do about that. i want to bring in nbc's kristin welker live at the white house. kristin, i know you were reporting from outside the briefing room, but as i watched the president from here, it seemed as though this sequester business has become extremely personal for the president. would you agree? >> reporter: well, i think that's right to some extent, martin, and you heard him say this is a loss for the american people to some extent, an acknowledgment that washington has failed the american people in this instance. as you point out, he held that 3res conference for 35 minutes, answered a number of questions, in part explaining what this really means for the rest of the country. not just washington gobbledygook as he said but really what the

real world implications will be. so that is sort of the personal side of this for president obama. now, of course, there is a political side to this as well. the american public if you look at the polls, they are on his side when it comes to getting a deal done. they do want to see a deal that includes new revenues as well as spending cuts. he has a bully pulpit. he used it today. he enacknowledged that's going to be part of his strategy moving forward to try to get republicans to move closer to what he would like to see, to use his bully pulpit. will it work? we'll have to see. >> speaker boehner sees no plan. the president faces a house republican caucus that paints him as a devil. so what's next? which mex circle of dante's inferno must the president journey through, anger, violence? >> as he said, he's not a dictator. he can't keep them in a room to work this out, but i think what's next is you are going to

see president obama leave the white house, leave washington, d.c., use a similar tactic that he believes is useful which is to go out and talk to the american people about what he would like to see happen. i think that as he gets closer to that march 27th deadline, that next fiscal fight, the cr fight, i think you will see the public pressure mount. that is really now the new deadline. >> nbc's kristin welker. thank you. let's bring in our panel now. with us from washington msnbc political analyst karen finney and msnbc political analyst professor michael eric dyson. karen, if i might begin with you, have we not arrived at the most ridiculous and absurd moment when the speaker of the house of representatives is praised and lauded by his caucus not for his achievements, but for doing absolutely nothing, nothing whatsoever in the face of these devastating cuts. he gets paid for doing nothing. >> he gets praised for doing nothing, but he's obstructing,

and that is what the tea party members in particular in his caucus, that is why they're here. we've talked about this before. they do not believe in government. so to them this is a victory. halting the wheels of government is to them a victory. i hope as these cuts start to show the implications and start to feel the ramifications throughout our economy, that they might take a step back and say, hey, blowing the whole thing up might not be a good idea. >> professor dyson, i'm beginning to wonder if republicans in the house are nursing a love for say dough mass kiss am. how else do you explain their ability to derive such pleasure from self-injuring the economy. this is 50 shades of gop, isn't it? >> they're obsessed with obama as the horn rimmed, if you will, devil who refuses to negotiate. here is the point. they are willing again, this is another form of taking the american people hostage.

they did it before with the debt ceiling crisis. now they're doing it with sequestration what they're doing is showing an inability to negotiate to on behalf of the american people to do the bidding and business of the people. however you take that, if you look at the polls as miss welker indicated, they're on the side of the president. so the president realizes it's the american people who will suffer. you already pointed out the distinction between the vulcans and the jedis, between, you know, what's going on in one star trek and what's going on in another, but i fear we've all been shatnered upon in this case. >> i'm sure you're right. i'm not dr. julian bashir. karen as speaker boehner and house republicans whistle off into another long weekends, the states are left to face the worst impact of all this. florida republican governor rick scott tweeted today congress and obama administration should not get paid for every day sequestration continues. the thing is you see, karen,

these house republicans, they can trash the country, trash the states, injure the disabled, hammer the poor, they can do it but it's governors who have to pick up the tab, isn't it? >> governors and mayors. certainly earlier this week when we heard from republican governors who were imploring republican members of congress to get with the program and come to the table, i think it's because they know that's where the rubber hits the road. where it really hits the radioed is mayors. i hope part of the group that gets brought in is as those ramifications kind of filter through our economy and filter down through the states and to the local level, i hope we hear from mayors. one thing i want to say on the politics of this, john boehner, and part of the problem is this is -- john boehner has essentially become such a feckless leader because he cannot essentially control his caucus. they've had no unified message, no unified strategy -- >> he can't even put a bill on the floor without the support of nancy pelosi and the democrats.

look at the violence against women act. >> and he can't get anything done, and i think time and again what we've seen is the speaker kind ever gets himself painted in a corner from a message standpoint and now they have no way to go. they've been so adamant there's no way, no condition under which they discuss the idea of revenues, where do they go from there? >> professor dyson, we have had a lot of color remarks, jedy mind meld, references to rolling potatoes with noses, but when it hits the workers getting furloughed, the aids patients losing drug benefits, the mothers losing child care, the students losing their grant so they can come and attend the lectures you give, it's not such a joke anymore, is it? >> not at all. let's throw into that already admirable list you have detailed the fact that let's appeal to their self-interest. what about the defense cuts that are coming? what about the security of the nation? so both in terms of the local

municipalities that miss finney spoke about, in terms of mayors and governors, in terms of average, ordinary people who will suffer, what about the nation's security which they claim top their os ten cybill goalpost they're always concerned about? even by their own measures they failed. they failed by the standards of the american people who feel that we don't have a congress that represents us, and they failed us in the sense their very own ideas they have nurtured and nourished from the beginning of their time in this administration they have repudiated. we know they're willing to do anything and everything not to give president obama and by extension the american people a victory. >> extraordinary. very quickly, karen. >> just -- remember, this morning general ray odierno, chief of staff of the army, if you don't believe president obama, how can you not believe the chief of staff of the army talking about the implications. that's how ridiculous it's gotten. >> karen and michael, thank you so much. be sure to watch "meet the press" sunday for more of david

gregory's exclusive interview with the hapless speaker. we'll be right back. the headline in "the washington post," your newspaper, was woodward says that he was threatened -- >> but i never have. >> i don't know if you have spoken to your editors about that but -- for over 75 years people have saved money with...ohhh... ...with geico... ohhh...sorry! director's voice: here we go. from the top. and action for over 75 years people have saved money with gecko so.... director's voice: cut it! ...what...what did i say? gecko? i said gecko? aw... for over 75 year...(laughs. but still trying to keep it contained) director's voice: keep it together. i'm good. i'm good. for over 75...(uncontrollable lahtuger). what are you doing there? stop making me laugh. vo: geico. saving people money for over seventy-five years. gecko: don't look at me. don't look at me. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him,

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and people wonder why you push people's buttons every once in a while. >> it's fun to push buttons. >> is it? >> as you just heard, supreme court justice antonin scalia loves to push people's buttons

and this week has been loaded with laughs for him. take a listen to what the distinguished jurist had to say in a case that would decide the case of the 1955 voting rights act. this features the oral arguments on wednesday. >> now, i don't think that's attributable to the fact that it is so much clearer now that we need this. i think it is attributable, very likely attributable, to a phenomenon that is called perpetuation of racial entitlement. it's been written about. whenever a society adopts racial entitlements, it is very difficult to get out of them through the normal political processes. >> there, wasn't that hilarious? of course, there are some people, kill snjoys to mr. scalia's way of thinking when you inject overt bias into arguments before the supreme court. >> do you think that the right

to vote is a racial entilement in section 5? >> no, the 15th amendment protects the right of all to vote -- >> i asked a different question. do you think section 5 was voted for because it was a racial entitlement? >> well, congress -- >> that, of course, was justice sonia sotomayor taking the phrase used by justice scalia and throwing it into the face of the attorney arguing in favor of weakening the voting rights act. joining us now is my colleague toure, co-host of "the cycle" and msnbc contributor jimmy williams live with us from washington. toure, this is hardly the first time justice scalia has, to borrow someone else's phrase, pushed people's button. a federal judge named richard posner criticized his ruling on the arizona law. let me quote. there are no citations to that part of the opinion where he

talks about the people of arizona are trying to defend themselves from this horde. it gives that part of the opinion the air of a campaign speech. campaign speeches are all well and good, but do we really expect that from the bench of the supreme court? >> i don't know what to expect from the bench of the supreme court at this point. it's definitely becoming a very politicized body, which it's not supposed to be, but it is completely that. sort of another congress per se. is fairness a racial entitlement? is protecting people's right to vote a racial entitlement? is telling people that shats will not play shenanigans and change your right to vote in terms of redistricting, in terms of voter i.d. which all those areas including shelby in 2008 redistricted to make sure the one black elected official they had was not re-elected. so we have these shenanigans happening all the time and protecting them is an entitlement? so you're giving us the right to

vote as if we are the takers in this game of makers and takers, which that whole language is completely racist and this idea that white people work hard and then they give their money to lazy black people. >> of course. jimmy, you have a very interesting new piece coming out on our website. you say and i'm quoting your piece, justice scalia's comments from the bench of racial entitlement were code to white americans. now, i'm not asking you that you become a traitor to your own race, jimmy, but would you mind unlocking this code for toure and myself and perhaps for the benefit of our audience? >> let's be clear, if the argument from wednesday were in 1963, i wouldn't be at all shocked or surprised. this is 2013. when i was a kid growing up in south carolina and i was, you know, a gay kid growing up in south carolina, i would hear code words, sissy or fairy or fruity or whatever the word was, i knew who they were talking about. when you hear someone say racial

entitlement, i am reminded of just four or five or six months ago during the last presidential campaign when we heard things like food stamp president, welfare queen, et cetera, et cetera. i wrote a piece in the agrgre t know in november saying there is no difference between racial entitle am and using the "n" word. i grew up in a racist society which is far less racest than i was as a child, but today in my home state's capitol building flies the confederate flag. it is overt and blatant. what justice scalia said from the bench in 2013 is one of the most political racist comments i have ever heard in my 21 years in washington, d.c. i'm embarrassed he's a justice. >> toure, if you really want to know what makes justice scalia crazy, mad crazy, take a listen

to this. >> but it really enrages me to hear people refer to it as a politicized court. thert i nor any one of my colleagues votes a certain way because he or she likes this president or is a member of the party that that president belongs to. i couldn't care less who the president is. >> there he is raging against your suggestion that the court is politicized. maybe he didn't mean what you think and what jimmy thinks he meant by racial entitlement. >> well, i mean, as jimmy broke down so eloquently, there is really only one way to take this concept of racial entitle am and the makers and takers, the 47%. all this way we said of why people work hard as romney showed in his welfare to work ad, white people work hard and we're forced to give our money to black and brown people, isn't that wrong? shouldn't we change that? the court we see today is pretty well divided, and we know which way that thomas and alito and for the most part roberts and of

course scalia are going to go. we know the way sotomayor and kagan and breyer are going to go. it is very locked in just as congress is, and what they're doing in defanging the voting rights act is they're creating a situation where people will have to be discriminated against via the shenanigans and then suffer discrimination, have the election pass, then prove it in court, wait through the years it might take to get their case into a court, deal with appeals. after they've been discriminated against once or twice or multiple times say back then we were discriminated against, the election is long gone. doesn't it make sense to prevent the discrimination at the door especially when we have seven of the nine full states that are under the preclearance thing? all seven of the nine of them have tried to put in voter i.d. laws, especially texas which was struck down in 2008. this is not about 1965. this is happening now. >> jimmy, toure is from massachusetts, so you know that conservatives love to show their

patriotism by denigrating the state that helped start the american revolution. take a listen to this. >> which state has the greatest disparity in registration between white and african-american? >> i do not know that. >> massachusetts. >> now, the secretary of state of massachusetts is calling chief justice roberts outs on this one. he says, and i'm quoting, the concept of black communities in massachusetts not voting is an old slur, and it's not true. the chief justice shouldn't be using phony statistics. it's deceptive and it's truly disgusti disgusting. >> how about that? >> i would like to suggest to anyone that's listening right now that if they remember the busing riots, where did the busing riots happen? they didn't happen in south carolina or florida or georgia or alabama or mississippi. they happened in massachusetts. racism is in every pocket of this country. every community. i am sick and tired of this idea that the south is filled with bigots and the northeast is filled with progressive

liberals. that is not the case. at the end of the day racism is everywhere, and these justices have a problem -- >> jimmy, jimmy, jimmy -- >> wait. >> i know you're from the south. you know that -- yes, racism is everywhere. i loved through some of the busing riots and boston was up south, but, i mean, there is more concentrated racism going on today and historically in america in the south than anywhere else and it's not really comparable to other areas -- >> i'm not suggesting -- wait, wait, wait. but wait. i'm not suggesting to you that the south doesn't have a lock on racism. i just gave you the confederate flag being in front of the south carolina state house. what i'm suggesting to you is this. the idea will isn't racism elsewhere in the country, if that's the case, then, in fact, section 5 should only be applied to those places. when, in fact, section 5 frankly in my opinion should be like section 2, applied to the entire country. >> sure. >> that's what i think should happen. >> rather than thoking it down it should be extended. >> that's exactly right. >> toure and jimmy williams, i

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to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. from the first lady and the best pick to a very romney sequel and some questionable politics. here are our "top lines." >> save us from ourselves.

>> what a country. >> the moment we have all been waiting for. >> there's michelle obama! >> i am a big fan of the bangs. >> this woman is who is so the brif ledged. >> if you need 30 runds you shouldn't be out there shooting deer. you're dangerous to your partner. >> you're carrying a gun, you're only allowed seven bullets. >> i was more worried about the big gulp. >> the media called me crazy. >> you're crazy. >> the excuse it's too politically risky is no longer acceptable. >> get down. >> i'm bucket listing. >> the president is off campaigning in newport news, virginia. >> in order to use our military men and women. >> bucket listing? >> golf with tiger woods? >> speaker boehner has got challenges in his caucus. is there something else could do to make these guys not paint horns on my head. this is not a win for anybody. most people agree that i'm being reasonable. >> that gave me a chill. >> nobody in the republican

party should be think being running for president. >> got to slap him around. >> that's good advice. >> anybody who is anybody in the republican political world will be there. >> say taylor swift were to become a rapper. >> it's a vast overreaction and a mistake. >> i wish them all the best. >> a hannity highlight real. jur the worst excuse for a journal its. >> you are a total waste of time. >> i have been called a liar. >> you are going to regret this. >> you felt threatened why didn't you say don't threaten me. >> i haven't used that language. >> looks to me like woodward hyped that claim. >> we were on a roller coaster. >> when you're going 100 miles an hour and when it's over. >> dad always goes to the line first but he's usually finished by the time the rest of us sit down. >> the ride ends and you get off. >> let's get to our panel. krystal ball is my colleague and

angela rye is a political strategist and principal of ige packet strategies. i'm glad both of you are here on this special sequester day. krystal, let me start with what happened between the president and speaker boehner two years ago. they were friends, they were on the verge of a grand bargain. now the president is regarded as satan. >> well, it might be a bit too strong to say they were friends, but i think john boehner has always been one of the people in his party who is actually most willing to come to the table, most willing to try to strike a grand bargain which really would realize a lot of republican principles that we have been fighting for for a long time and i think he recognizes that. i don't think the problem is so much with boehner and obama. i think the problem is with the president and the republican caucus and with boehner and the republican caucus. i mean, he cannot get them to go along with anything. so it really doesn't matter what john boehner agrees to. it really doesn't matter how cordial his relationship with the president is -- >> how many meetings he has.

whether he plays golf. makes no difference. >> it makes no difference. >> angela "the new yorker" has a lengthy profile of eric cantor. he is asked whether he and paul ryan are responsible for breaking up the deal we were just talking about. here is cantor's reply. take a listen. >> i would say it's a fair assessment because in the end we felt that -- well, let me back up. this is probably a longer answer. yes, it's probably an accurate conclusion. >> angela, regardless of what you think of boehner on a personal level, how do you rate his effectiveness as a leader because often times he doesn't seem to be in command of anything, does he? >> no, martin. i think that's very, very true. you know, first of all, the grand bargain fell apart because of the grand old party, and you see they're unraveling each and every day. you see, you know, eric cantor i think constantly undermining the

leader -- i'm sorry, the speaker in his capacity as the leader. they can't whip votes because their party is so diverse, not in race or necessarily even in policies that support people of color or others that are under served, but they're very divergent in their beliefs, whether it's the tea party caucus that we see starting to unravel as well or the other more moderate folks in the republican party such as boehner who traditionally has been a moderate, but now has found himself in a role where he's got to try to bring everybody together so he's saying things that he originally didn't say. >> okay. now, krystal, the great mitt romney is back in the public eye. >> that's right. >> and here is what his mittness says about the president and sequestration. take a listen to this. >> he didn't think the sequester would happen. it is happening, but to date what we've seen is the president out campaigning to the american people, doing rallies around the country, flying around the country, and berating republicans and blaming and

pointing. >> so just so i have that right, krystal, the president is going around the country rallying voters to his side to win public opinion, gave them free stuff. that's the mitt romney analysis. >> heaven forbid he talk to the american people. what else is the president supposed to do? he's dealing with a caucus and another side that has no interest in working with him, no interest in negotiating, so what he found in his first term i think a lot of what he learned is that his strongest hand is to take the case to the american people because they are behind him. they support a balanced approach. they support gor nover governan. that's what the president is doing. it makes perfect sense. not only is it the logical thing for him to do but it's in the best interests of the country. >> i think mitt romney proved by the american people rejected him. angela, last question, the annual korve conference, cpac

meets in two weeks. national editors are acalling on cpac to allow go proud. they write conservative opinion on the intersection of homosexuality and politics is not mon lit ink, especially among the college-aged set that makes up the better part of the c nns pac attendees and a gathering that hopes to speak for the conservative movement will be better quipped to do so if it represents the overlapping gamut of views included in it. it's in the enough to allow people who are gay to attend, surely they must be allowed to contribute and speak, yes? >> i think when you look at what's happening with the republican party or conservatives, because some of them are acting like they no longer wish tosh under the republican umbrella based on what we see on more conservative networks, i won't name any names, but you have a situation where they don't understand that the american people overwhelmingly are supporting different causes. this is not the 1980s, people. it is time to wake up and understand that people feel very

differently about policies. they didn't stay the same. they're not frozen in time. people have evolved. and at some point the republican party is going to have to catch up or they're going to be left behind in the dust. >> angela rye, krystal ball, thank you both so much. >> thanks. why wayne lapierre may have had the worst week ever. stay with us. >> just for the record from my point of view, senator -- >> how many cases have you made? >> it doesn't matter it's a paper thing. i want to stop 76 -- i want to finish the answer. >> no -- >> i want to stop 76,000 people from buying guns illegally. that's what a background check does. if you think we're going to do paperwork prosecutions, you're wrong. people have doubts about taking aspirin for pain. but they haven't experienced extra strength bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 95% of people who tried it agreed that it relieved their headache fast.

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turk yir counterparts on the continuing bloodshed in syria. on a day when rebels claimed the assad regime executed 72 people and burned their bodies, the united nations secretary-general says there is a very small window of opportunity for talks between the syrian government and opposition. words echoed by the secretary of state during a joint press conference. >> there is no legitimacy in a regime that commits atrocities against its own people, and we need to continue to work to make certain that the assad regime makes a different set of choices. >> michael o'hanlon is a senior policy fellow at the brookings institution. mike, the administration has approved, as you know, another $60 million in aid to the syrian opposition, but it's humanitarian aid. given news of this latest atrocity, do you think the pressure is growing for some

kind of military support, perhaps even intervention? >> martin, it's a great question, and the answer is i doubt it, not yet. i think you could hear that in john kerry's choice of words a moment ago in what you played. he said we need to get the assad regime to make a different set of choices. i thought he was going to say we need to get the assad regime to collapse or to go away or at least assad to go into exile. he didn't say that. he may have said that in a different part of the press conference to be fair, but in other words we are still ambivalent about how much we care about this particular war, how willing we are to get more engaged, and also, of course, whether we want to play hardball with russia or hope that russia sort of comes over and helps us just by a change of its own heart. >> i was going to mention the russians, mike, because the russians have criticized any support for the syrian opposition saying it will only encourage further violence. so is the russian position that we just sit back and watch their

friend and ally, president assad, murder his own people? >> yeah, i'm afraid it is. i think the russians have been of the view that assad can probably ride this out. we've been of the view that assad will fall quickly, and we've both been wrong. i think that both sides have, frankly done mediocre military analysis because here we are two years in. it's a stalemate and, therefore, your question i think is very apropos. will humanitarian aid really be enough to tip the tied of battle? i'm skeptical. i think if we really care about driving assad out of power or even convincing the russians to put more leverage against this problem and try to coerce assad into exile, we're going to have to show a little more willingness to step it up. that's my gut view. >> right. now, although this is an escalating crisis, the turkish prime minister seems more obsessed with israel saying earlier this week referring to zionism as a crime against humanity. john kerry denounced those comments as objectionable. doesn't this speak to the

complexity of a region where america wants to deal with the turkish government which chooses to launch verbal assaults against israel. >> exactly. i think secretary kerry did a great job. that's a beautiful way of saying you're not making any sense, mr. prime minister, but i also don't want to get into a spat with you unnecessarily because we still need turkey's help. i don't see any solution to this problem without turkey playing a role. however, i doubt that turkey can be the leader in a sl lution for the kinds of reasons that we saw reflected in mr. erdogan's comments. i don't think turkey necessarily has a fully balanced view on either the arab/israeli peace process or on syria for that matter. while he can be helpful, going to have to i think rise above these internal squabbles and show some real leadership. >> michael o'hanlon, we're grateful for your expertise. thank you. next, wayne lapierre may not want to look at the polls. he's losing badly. [ male announcer ] it's a rule of nature.

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this has not been an especially good week for the nra. 90% of voters in ohio support background checks. on wednesday it was milwaukee police chief who handed nra apologize -- apologist lindsey graham his backside. >> the powerful elites, they aren't talking about limiting their capacity for protection. they have all the security they want. our only means of security is the second amendment when the glass breaks in the middle of the night and we have the right to defend ourselves. >> joining us now is democratic strategist julian epstein. julian, good afternoon. how bad of an effect on popular

opinion do you think the nra and its apologists are having on this debate because the polls are not looking good for mr. wayne lapierre, are they? >> every time he opens his mouth, the numbers get worse for him. a gix of that and the other things we've been talking about, the president's leadership on this, the fact the media is focusing on this, the fact you have people on this network like the victims in newtown, the chief attending officer who we talk about yesterday, the noms are moving quickly. you cite the quinnipiac poll in ohio which has traditionally been a very pro-gun state and you are seeing majorities supporting the assault weapons ban, a restriction on clips and unbelievable majorities of 90% plus on background checks and that's kind of the point, martin. the point is you have to remember that congress is a lagging indicator. we've spoken about jobs being a lagging indicator on the economy and on gdp. the congress is a lagging indicator of public opinion. and this goes to the central point about democrats and others who say that congress will never pass the assault weapons ban or

clips. the point here is this, if the republican majority in the congress goes against what is now very clear majority public support on the assault weapons ban and on clip, then the issue isn't over. you get background checks through and you keep clips alive and you make the members opposing this pay a political price at the polls. >> but just explain to me then, julian, the politics of what's going on in the senate because i can show you poll after poll that say voters want background checks and assault weapon bans. yet the senate has decided to delay discussion of gun violence legislation another week. why the disconnect? >> i'm not overly troubled by the delay. i mean, i have been through this process of marking up these gun legislation many, many times when i was there. i think what leahy is trying to do is to forge as much consensus

as possible. but leahy understands this and the person who understands this i think most in american politics is vice president biden. leahy understands that we're going to do this in several stages. we're going to get through what we can get right now, but this issue and this is the central point, does not go away once it passes the senate and once something passes the house. vice president biden realizes that if hillary clinton doesn't run in 2016, i actually am a big hillary clinton supporter, i hope she does, but if she doesn't run, he is out there in front like no one else on this issue and he understands exactly where the public is and he understands that politicians are going to get political dividends if they're with the american people on this, not if they're against the american people, and so the smart politicians have figured it out. the guys who are either in the pocket -- the hip pocket of the nra there, the gop who is being run by the nra rather than being run by what are the best interests of our children. you know, we have 33 gun deaths a year -- a day, martin. that's the equivalent of a jumbo jet airliner, more than the

equivalent of a jumbo jet airliner going down every week of the year. if there was a jumbo jet airliner going down every week of the year, do you think the republican party would be up saying we don't need to regulate this problem? >> i think the answer to that question, julian, is i'm not sure given the current republican caucus. >> well, they're losing the argument with the american people and that's the point we have to remember. they're losing it and we will eventually get these measures through. >> julian epstein, as ever, thanks. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. dad, i'd put that down. ah. 4g, huh? verizon 4g lte. 700 megahertz spectrum, end-to-end, pure lte build. the most consistent speeds indoors or out. and, obviously, astonishing throughput. obviously... you know how fast our home wifi is? yeah. this is basically just as fast. oh. and verizon's got more fast lte coverage than all other networks combined. so it's better. yes. oh, why didn't you just say that? huh-- what is he doing?

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