velshi will be back in the chair at 3:00 eastern. i know he's missed. you all have been tweeting about it. "deadline: white house" with steve kornacki in for nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. i'm steve kornacki in for nicolle wallace and at this very moment donald trump's own aides are on edge. they concerned about what might happen tonight in cincinnati. this is donald trump's first campaign rally since greenville, north carolina, where the crowd infamous erupted in those chants of send her back, to no objection from the president. that incident kicking off weeks now of controversy around the subject of race, in part because trump himself has been fanning those flames, at least according to democrats. and today his aides are worried he will use his turn at the podium to venture right back into fraught territory but they cannot seem to keep him away from. right now trump is talking to

reporters before he heads out to cincinnati, commenting on what he might do tonight if the crowd does break into those chants again. the associated press is reporting, quote, all eyes will be watching both the ohio crowds behavior and how trump reacts, even his closest advisers seem uncertain as to what may transpire. and the presidecedent is he maye motivation to put distance between his democratic rivals. we know trump was watching last night's debate, he was tweeting alongside, so that means he would have seen the 40 separate attacks from those candidates on leadership, conduct and policies. >> mr. president, this is america and we are strong and great because of this diversity, mr. president. not in spite of it, mr. president. >> mr. president, kids belong in

classrooms, not cages. >> when we look back in history what happened when the president of the united states started acting more like an authoritarian leader than leader of the free world, what will he have done? >> i have seen people go to prison for far less. >> on january 20, 2021, we will say together adios to donald trump. >> and that is the picture democrats were trying to paint last night, donald trump as a race-baiting, corrupt breaker of promises. so it is worth noting that justice as the candidates were about to take the stage, trump retweeted yet another controversial attack video on the conditions in baltimore. here to talk us through all of this, phil rucker, white house bureau chief for "the washington post" and white house correspondent for pbs newshour, yamiche alcindor. at the table with us, former democratic congresswoman donna edwards, executive editor for bloomberg opinion, tim o'brien

and politics editor from the root, jason johnson. phil, let me start with you. the president about to head out to cincinnati. going to have one of those giant rallies. we saw what happened the last time. he said afterwards maybe -- he wasn't too happy and maybe he would try to tell the crowd not to do it if they did it again. what is the likelihood the crowd would do this again and what's the likelihood the president would say anything if it does? >> steve, the crowd certainly could do this chant again. i don't know. we will have to see what happens tonight. but the president is unlikely to admonish his supporters. i don't think we have seen him do that in the 3 1/2 years as a presidential candidate or president. he's leaving the white house now and just telling the pulling about this, he was asked by some reporters what would happen if the chant happens again, he said, quote, if they do the chant, we will see what happens but i prefer they don't.

that's his state of mind as they head out to ohio. we will see what happens tonight, but i can tell one thing, there's nothing his staff or aides can do to force him to handle it one way or another. he's going to probably follow his gut when he's on that stage and decide how to deal with it if it happens. and i would be very surprised if he actually followed through and admonished his own supporters. >> yeah, yamiche, take us through what's going on behind the scenes. phil said his aides and all of the reporting i have seen folks around trump are uncomfortable to say the least about him venturing into this territory and completely incapable of getting the message through to him that he shouldn't. what is the mood around trump like right now? >> everyone is a bit on edge because the president tweeted out that these four congresswoman should go back do their countries and tried for about a week to pivot away from that and say they should leave the country. but these supporters understand clearly what president trump was

aing saying to them. i just came back to ohio and the people said they liked he said send them back. he liked the chant. they said this is a president fighting for america and republicans. they feel they have been painted racist for some time and he's speaking for his values. the peopresident said he doesn' want the crowd to be chanting this but he likes these crowds. the day after he called them incredible patriots and when i asked him specifically, does that mean you're trying to walk back that disavow, and he wouldn't answer me. you have a president torn with embracing his supporters and also not be painted as racist, at least that's what he tells reporters like me and fl aphil others. >> jason, what phil was saying and the president apparently

telling the president before ohio, he was asked what happens if the crowd starts chanting that tonight, his answer is not i will tell them not to. it was we will see what happens. >> donald trump is a racist and wants people to be excited about it. he wants his supporter to feel like he's an avatar for all of the racial animosity they want to have. the fact is not whether or not it has impact on the supporters, it's what manifests down the road. i have been to cameron indoor stadium with duke, you can't stop a chant. even if you want to. so the question is, how does he decide he wants to weaponize this? a bunch of screaming people doesn't provide the best look for the rest of ohio. it doesn't make people in toledo and cleveland say i want to go there. a lot of americans, even republicans, will look at that and say that kind of looks like a nuthouse. that's what i'm curious about. how will he use this going forward? he can't stop this behavior and

he won't. >> everything i read and the reporters who have gotten to know his world a little bit is saying this, he's fixated on what he sees as his base. he's tuning out folks who he doesn't perceive to be his base in the interest of catering to them and there's nobody as pure as his base who show up at these. >> the thing to remember is trump opened the door to this a long time ago. i think it's both healthy and completely depressing that we can acknowledge that we have a president who is a racist and he's created the conditions for these kind of events and he's given them the script. everything that was said in north carolina was based on things he himself had said. he's got no interest in pushing back on this really for two reasons, one this is who he is. the president is a racist and he reve revels i think in throwing these flameballs into the middle of

the public dialogue to incent people to feel passionately about things they may have kept in check before. the other thing is i don't believe he sees this in a political framework. if he did, he wouldn't be doing this. he doesn't need to be pandering to the worst instincts of his base. he needs to try to expand his electoral base into swing voters. as jason was saying, i think there are swing voters will detest this. we are seeing suburban white women don't like this. they were a crucial voting block to put the democrats in the house in the 2018 election and trump is not being strategic. he's being who he is. >> donna, what do you think? >> i think the president revels in the energy of the chanting crowds. i mean if you look at him, he was basking in that chant. and i think he feeds off of it as well as the crowd feeding off of him. so i think it's highly unlikely he's going to stop it in his

tracks, even if he had the ability to do that. the other thing is i think the president, and tim, we acknowledge he's racist and the question i think for the rest of us is what do we do with that? do we ignore it or move on? i argue you don't move on. you have to hit it head on every single time so the american public doesn't just become immune to the idea we have a racist president in the white house. >> we have had police studies, sociological studies that show a rise in hate crimes and attacks and racial assaults on attack. like a virus whenever he has one of these conferences or big rallies. so i think that's the other thing we need to talk about. the consequences on the ground of bringing this kind of consequence together and having people screaming and having people chanting and having him play gladiator emperor with his thumb up or down, we need to look at a pure civic perspective of how many people go out and threaten somebody at a walmart?

how many people go out and burn a cross? how many people go out and wave a gun at somebody at a gas station? we need to look at these civil disturbances and encouragement of domestic terror rather than just a political rally. that's essentially what they manifest into. >> what jason is talking about i specifically just came back from hearing about. i was just in dayton, ohio, since 2000 the city's immigrant population doubled. just last week somebody was walking in dayton where immigrants had been welcomed for years now and somebody screamed, send her back. go back to your country to somebody walking in that community. that mayor told me we have been doing years of work and in one sweep the president can drag us back to a time before we were not welcoming immigrants. i talked to a family who said they're scared to send their biracial muslim children to school because they are afraid somebody will take their children away from them or even hurt their family if they listen to the president's chants and

tweets. this is something black and brown people and allies, white allies are feeling around the country, and have everyone on edge. >> the question here too, there is a question too about how trump's party handles -- certainly handles the last instance of this coming up at a rally, if it were to come up tonight, we will see. if it would happen again, we will see. you saw the resolution to hit the house floor a couple months ago the democrats put up i believe four republicans who ended up crossing over with the democrats and the rest though voted against it. here was trump's vice president, here was mike pence. that was an interview with major garrett on cbs just after the last eruption on this topic. this is how mike pence addressed it. >> this could all go away with one simple road or phrase or something. you have a chance to stay it right now. don't do it again. is that your message? >> major, the president was very clear. >> was he? >> that he wasn't happy about it and if it happened again, he

might -- he would make an effort to speak out about it. >> phil rucker, that was such an extraordinary comment or seemed to be from pence. you can hear him hedging. you can hear this political instinct that pence has to condemn this, at least distance himself from it, but then the hedge because it's almost as if he's thinking, hey, maybe this is going to happen again and i don't want this interview being held up as me saying something different. >> yes, steve, it was one of the very few moments where we have seen vice president pence shaky and uncertain. and you might even say weak in his convictions about that answer. and it's worn pointing out also it wasn't entirely true what he said. president trump was not clear in what he said about that chant. in fact, it took until the next day for him to say anything, only when reporters asked him and only after republican lawmakers urged the vice president to convince president trump to condemn what had happened in those chants and had started speaking out about it.

trump himself said nothing that night at the rally. he said nothing on twitter on the way home when it became a huge news story. he said nothing the next morning. it wasn't until later in the day. >> this came up sort of indirectly at the debate last night, democratic debate. i think it was joe biden's opening state last night. we played a little there where he was looking directly into the camera, addressing the president, making the argument his country is better than the rhetoric is putting forth. is that a message, i remember democrats raising that point in 2016 and donald trump is in the white house now. is that a message that resonates different, that plays differently now? >> i do think there's also a democratic base and there's part of that democratic base that stayed home in 2016 and i think they want to hear leaders really directly confronting this president. ordinarily people say well, move on, sweep it under the rug. don't talk when it because there's some negative

consequence. here's an instance where for democrats the negative consequence for them of not speaking out and not confronting this president is they will have s a whole set of people going what's the point or benefit to vote for you? and they will challenge him every single time, even if they pivot to health care, the reason you can't get this done is you have a racist in the white house who is challenging you on every front. i think that's a winning message for democrats. >> again, it strikes me watching that last night, as i was mentioning, i do remember this coming up in 2016. i do remember democrats, folks in the clinton campaign who were convinced the basic message is america is better than this would win the election in 2016, and it didn't. >> i think one of the differences of 2016, i don't think the american electorate had a full handle about the

nature of the man who was about to go into the white house. it wasn't a mystery he was a racist. it wasn't a mystery that he was ill-informed and he was a race baiter but a lot of this burst into the open in a much rawer way now and i think it will reside with the electorate in a different way. donna was just saying how imperative it is for democrats to speak to this. it's also really imperative for the gop. it's still amazing to me at this point we're now a week beyond trump's flame-throwing at elijah cummings and city of baltimore, not a single member of the gop and washington or governor's house, maybe except maryland, has come out and said -- and that was give cal -- >> and squishy. >> has come out and said simply, this is wrong. we're a country that tolerates racial and ethnic and religious diversity and we celebrate it and this is the worst of who we are. the biggest example is mark meadows. elijah cummings went to back for

mark meadows earlier this year, defend him on the floor as a communist for not being racist. matthews thanked him for that. has mark meadows been seen at all out front saying my good friend elijah cummings is being treated horribly by the president? no. >> yes, had you a statement in which he lumped cummi think they're both racist. the other thing i mentioned is the vote in the last eruption of this, there was that vote that resolution notice house to condemn trump's comments, four republicans crossed over. one of the republicans who crossed over, susan brooks from indiana, had just announced a few weeks earlier she's retiring. but i'm wondering, phil rucker, maybe you have insight into this, we have seen a spate of republican retirement announcements in the past week. i'm thinking of susan brooks opinion other republicans all of a sudden, it seems like there's a sudden rush of it. is it related to the president

in the last couple of weeks really stepping up this particular approach? >> the truth, steve, is we don't entirely know but i don't suspect it's related simply to the news of the last couple of weeks with the racist comments by the president. rather it's a reflection of the broader political atmosphere for the republican party there and minority in the house right now. some of these lawmakers may have made a calculation that it's unlikely in a presidential election cycle that they would win back the majority in the house. life is not as good in the minority as it is in the majority and maybe they decided they don't want to stick it out or they've had enough. that's often the reason why some house members will decide not to run again. and did should certainly also be a reaction to what they see with president trump. but i don't think these are decisions that they make in sort of a two-week window. it's something these lawmakers think about for a long time before deciding and announcing. >> you knew -- it's been a few years since you were in the house but we know a lot of the

republicans who are there now. i imagine you have a pretty good sense of what motivates them. you probably have a good sense of what motivates them as people. we don't hear a lot from them publicly but what do you think is going on behind the scenes as republicans in congress as this sort of thing plays out? >> i thought about this and i don't think it matters what goes on behind the scenes because if they whisper behind the scenes they're uncomfortable with the president and it makes them worried about their own district, it doesn't matter because they haven't said anything publicly. when i look at some of the returns, only one is in a district where the democrats could have a pickup. the others are in pretty solidly red districts. so it seems to me they're making a two-fold calculation. one, they can't be defended by the president anymore. martha roby, who's retiring, she had to beg the president for an endorsement because of a close election being challenged on her right. does she want to go with that

again with this president in the white house? i don't think so. i wouldn't be surprised if we saw more retirement announcements. republicans are feckless, co-conspirators, complicit in the president's racism. i just said the republican party to me is like dead. i don't know how it will be reinvented. >> the most recent republican to really come out and make a stand against trump was justin amash. by the way, justin amash is no longer a member of the reason party. i don't know what his prospects are to come back to the house. quick break. as we mentioned, the president was talking to reporters before heading out to ohio. the question came up, if that crowd starts making the chant like they did in carolina a couple of weeks ago, what are you going to do? the president's answer seemed noncommittal. we will play that for you. and many looked at last night as the joe biden survival test and he seemed to pass it. the real test may yet to come and it might be elizabeth

warren. whapsz wh what happens when biden and warren finally end up on the same stage together. plus, is the crowded democratic pack about to shrink dramatically? we will talk about what it takes to get on the next debate stage. and hint, there are a lot of them. this is the most diverse field of candidates ever but yet a white guy is the most black voters. we will understand why that is and much more coming up. ♪ here i go again on my own ♪ goin' down the only road i've ever known ♪ ♪ like a drifter i was-- ♪ born to walk alone! ...barb! you left me hangin' on the high harmony there. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle.

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welcome back. as we mentioned, the president's aides are on edge at this hour. why? because he's scheduled in just a few hours to be at his first rally since that rally in greenville, north carolina, a few weeks ago. where those chants of send them back broke out and where the president stood there and did nothing and said nothing on the stage as those chants broke out. of course, the question, what will happen in the chants start up again? what would the president do? what would the president not do for that matter? just a few minutes ago he was speaking to reporters before heading to the rally. he will be in cincinnati, ohio. he was asked about that. here's what he said -- >> i can't tell you whether or not they will do that chant. if they do the chant, we will have to see what happens? >> will you stop them, sir? >> i don't know that you can stop people. i don't know that you can. i prefer they don't but if they do it, we'll have to make a decision then.

>> i don't know if you can stop them, he says. >> what is he going to say? we're going to take this rally and turn around and go home. he doesn't care. he's going to encourage it. >> is that right there an invitation to do it? he said basically what it is. and also if we're to believe what omarosa said a week and a half ago on donny deutsche, he puts people out there to start these chants and tests them in one way or another. this is what donald trump does and an environment he wants to create throughout the state. he wants to create fear. i think it is incredible for democrats to even understand, there are a large number of americans who love this stuff, who want this kind of white man, who feels this is powerful and empowers them to say these things. until we recognize that these people, call them poor or racist, whatever, these people are immovable. they have a belief system of a pluralistic democracy, and until

we look at it that way, he will continue to get away with this nonsense because he thinks these are people to be discussed with rather than dangerous to our country. >> i gather there will be folks going to the rally who see or hear that clip before the rally begins tonight. is there anything that happens before the president takes the stage? if there are folks around him they're nervous about this, is there a chance they will make an announcement at this thing, refrain from doing that? do you have any sense at all? or is it he shows up and starts talking and we will see what happens. >> i don't think anyone will warn the crowd not to make the chant sent her back. but i think the president is doing something that excites a lot of republicans. i was just out in the field and a chair of a republican party in a county in ohio told me they like the idea the president is doing this. they think it's the president

standing up for them and the president exciting the base and they need something to rally around and this is the chant can be their way of doing that. this is the republicans counterpunching. the other thing is if i'm thinking about how i have seen the president do this when he knows he's in sort of a sensitive situation. the president can joke with the crowd, oh, they told me to tell you that that chant is not good. they told me i'm not supposed to be saying that but we all know i can't stop you from doing that. i kind of feel like the president could just be joking about this. the way he's been able to i think the same thing people can say he's disavowing that while also winking to his supporters that want to say the chant. that's a fascinating point, phil, yamiche raced. when somebody made a crude comment by ted cruz, then

candidate trump repeated to the crowd, and i remember when the lock her up chants were taken up in 2016 and there was a lot of public pressure and unease among republicans and president trump at one point said, don't say that, let's just defeat her. and a couple days later the next crowd did it and that was it, started going again. >> yeah, steve, that's trump. it's a really smart point yamiche made because he's done this time and time again. the other thing that he does, one of his tricks he may try to do tonight is turn it all on the media and point at the press pen and riser cameras and say come on, they're going to call all of us racists and make it about his supporters versus the media. what he's probably unlikely to do is stand up at the podium and say don't say that. it's wrong. it's racist. we're not like that. that's not what we say in america. because we've never seen him make comments like that before. >> okay, phil and yamiche, thank you for joining us. thank you for sticking around.

we did want to hear exactly what it was the president said. we appreciate that. and we will be watching to see tonight what does transpire in the rally in cincinnati. meanwhile, back to the 2020 race. the candidates need a candidate to run against trump. there's still one matchup just about everybody watching would like to see, a showdown between joe biden and senator elizabeth warren. the two of them representing polar opposite constituencies within the party as "new york magazine" notes, without them on stage together answering the same questions and engaging each other over their visions for campaigning and running the country, audience could be forgiven for thinking they're all competing for different voters. here's how the other contenders took on biden last night. >> first of all, mr. vice president, it looks like one of us has learned the lessons of the past and one of his hasn't. >> vice president biden, you're simply inaccurate in what you're describing. the reality is our plan will

bring health care to all americans under a medicare for all system. >> mr. vice president, you want to be president of the united states, you need to be able to answer tough questions. i guarantee you if you're debating donald trump, he's not going to let you off the hook. >> mr. vice president, there's a saying in my community, you're dipping into kool-aid and you don't even know the flavor. >> joining the table, rick stengel, former editing manager for "time" magazine. a big picture question about biden last night. obviously came into it as the front-runner but all sorts of questions that i think really revolved around his performance. was he going to show people he was up to it? that's the question so many people were asking after the first debate. did he succeed last night? what was your sense of biden's performance? >> generally the consensus is he succeeded and managed to hold on to enough voters and policies and he was air articulate enough. i will step back because this is a different l. trump has polluted our

democracy, undermined our democracy and in a normal election, people might go well, this guy biden seems a little too old and he seems maybe he doesn't have -- his hands on the wheel in the right way with. but the rational for his candidacy is, hey, i've got this. the country is falling apart. i'm a safe pair of hands. i'm not talking about structural change like elizabeth warren. i'm talking about improving and getting back to what they care about in this country and moving forward in an incremental way. >> i will ask our producers here because i didn't do my home work and read the sheet, do we have the clip biden talking about the press an hour ago? we will come back to that while they tee it up. the point is biden was talking to the press about an hour ago, and essentially what he was saying to democrats is let's not over-think this. yes, donald trump is president. yes, democrats need to find a way to beat him. hillary clinton won the popular vote upward of 3 million votes

in the combined margin that made trump president, michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin was about 75,000 votes. in fact, i'm paraphrasing. here's the exact quote. take a listen. >> if i get the nomination, i will win michigan. i promise you that. i will win pennsylvania. i will win ohio. i will win these states that he got 72,000 extra votes on to give himself an election. look, folks, there wasn't a great migration to him. it didn't occur. we're talking about 72,500 votes and three states that changed. otherwise hillary clinton would be president with the margin of over 3 million votes. >> you got bernie sanders calling for a revolution, elizabeth warren with the very comprehensive platform. is that message biden is articulating there extra powerful to democrats? just the idea hey, this is pretty simple and i can do it? >> look, i think democrats want

to win. that's really clear in all of this and biden does represent that kind of safe choice. unt here's the thing, until we see biedsen and warren next to each other, we have to put that to the test. the difference is warren says yes, we have to win and we also have to stand for something. you can see that in the debates on the first night. you know what her gut is, you know what her instincts are, you know what her values are and rational for winning is and you don't get that from jobs yet, and i think it will be important to have the two of them together. we will contrast and say, you know what, we want vision and we want to win. >> that's the question. we played the attacks the candidates were making last night. it strikes me, hires the argument why biden might still trip up because of warren and the argument may go warren is the strongest in this field and whether you agree or not, warren

as a comprehensive theory of the american system or wafr you want to call it and she knows how to prosecute the case on behalf of it and she will make biden sweat on stage with him. what do you think of that? >> it's true. i think elizabeth warren is easily the best narrator of where the democrats should be on policy of the whole field. she's at ease with herself. she's enjoying the process, you know that moment when she rubbed her hands together when the wealth tax question came to delaney. she revels in it and unflachable at least thus far on almost any question, regardless of the complexity. she offers a straightforward, intelligible and quick and concise answer on where she is on the policy. biden has almost been disastrous on this, including last night. yes, he survived but any sentence or explanation he had to give that went beyond two, three sentences he started to lose track of where he was and just wasn't good. i don't think harris was on her game last night the way she was in the previous debate but she's

got a lot more charisma at this point than joe biden. at the end of the day i think it will be harris, warren, buttigieg and biden. and if biden's only rational he can convince voters in swing states he's preferable to donald trump, i'm not sure that's enough to continue to campaign on, but he has an argument there. >> so what he said mathematically is true. michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania just got democratic governors. the reason hillary clinton lost is they had republican governors suppressing the vote and discouraging people. almost any democrat that goes into 2020 with a 3 million vote lead and the three critical swing states now in the hands of a republican congress. so whether he can do it remains to be seen. i don't think enough americans can be galvanized by i can take us back. that's not very exciting. elizabeth warren is very good and i don't think she will be

the nominee, but what are you running for? why aren't running without big ideas? and if joe biden can't give us a big, exciting vision you're going to have too many americans saying this is more of the same. i thought his closing argument, it wasn't closing but he said this during the debate, his most important point was look, four years of donald trump is an anomaly. we can fix that. if we let this guy get eight years in the office he will destroy what we know of to be america. if he can make that point i'm the only guy who can keep that from happening, four years where you won't be able to recognize this country, that might be enough for him to overtake the message of elizabeth warren, beto o'rouke, kamala harris, pete buttigieg, people who are much more eloquent and engaging and believe it or not, bernie is still out there too. i think bernie will be more likely to be there than pete. >> biden has to do his homework. >> when democrats say their argument is i'm a safe pair of

hands, they don't win. that's mondale and dukakis. bill clinton and obama came in from nowhere and excited people. it was a different era. donald trump wasn't president. >> and you mentioned kamala harris, star of the first debate and certainly at biden's expense. they're on the stage together. last night certainly on medicare for all early and a couple of other issues mixing it up. "the washington post" did their winners and losers for the second debate. they did list harris as one of the losers. her rational said she was a big winner. she was in for a much tougher time. tough on time as a prosecutor and equivocation on certain issues including bussing and medicare for all made her a convenient target. she didn't exactly hand tell well. challenged repeatedly by some of the lower-polling candidates on the stage, was sometimes halting and didn't seem fully ready for the challenge at hand. donna, the capsuled version of this is kamala harris like any good prosecutor, when you give her the rehearsed script to carry out, it's brilliant. but when she has to sort of

improvise, maybe there's a struggle. is there something to that? >> i think there is. can you go back to the beginning when she's asked about the role of private insurance and she says immediately get rid of private insurance and she has to sort of fix that and now she has a new plan. i think it's a solid plan but it's really tough to go from one thing to another thing and back to the other thing. so i thinks this something to that. the other thing we experienced is kamala harris isn't the first time in top tier status that she's been attacked and has had to respond. i think any candidate who makes it through the entire process is going to have to be hit, get back up, hit again, get back up. and she has to prove that. >> she basically had a joe biden moment. she should have known gabbert was basically announcing this with smoke signals and announcements and tweets all week. this woman isn't qualified. the fact harris wasn't ready for that attack shows she was just as overconfident and arrogant that joe biden was in that first

debate when he was shocked by her coming after him. >> gabbert hasn't gotten much conversation. she had biden's back in criminal justice and i thought a striking moment, biden's iraq war vote came up. here's gabbert, a veteran who made this an centerpiece issue, she was given an open invitation to hold biden on that vote and took a pass. she did not want to inflict damage on joe biden but did want to inflict damage on kamala harris. after the break, we're looking at the dwindling of the field could cut the democratic candidates in half but there still would be more than ten. who's in and who's out and who's on the bubble is next. t. ♪ more, more, more ♪ how do you like it, how do you like it ♪ all you can eat is back. how do you like that? applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.

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we don't need a liberal or pro depressive with big ideas, or we don't need a moderate who can win back trump/obama voters. you need someone who can do both, and that's who i am.

please go to kirsten gillibrand.com so i can make the next debate stage. >> that was as blunt as it gets, kirsten gillibrand's final appeal in the debate last night. she's saying what many of her fellow candidates on stage were certainly thinking, get me to the next debate. keep my campaign alive. and why is that? because we are on the verge of what is likely to be a dramatic and severe culling of the herd because the qualifications for the next democratic debate, which is going to be in the middle of september, are no joke. if you want to make it on the stage the next time, you will need 130,000 unique donors and at least 2% in four separate polls. all of this needs to be done by the end of this month, august 28th. that may not sound like much but look at this, there are 20 candidates who participated in this week's debate in detroit. after that group seven of them have met that criteria and qualified for the next round of debates, buttigieg, sanders, warren, o'rourke, booker, biden

and harris. they will be on the stage in september. then there's a book of three on the bubble, castro, yang and they need one more qualifying vote to get there. and amy klobuchar has 120 of the 130 thousand voters. she will probably do that. but from there there are even two more long shots who seem to be anywhere near the target. tulsi gabbard and john hickenlooper qualified a single qualifying poll and there's a lot more work to do. the table is back with me now. rick, people talked about the size of this democratic field in varying terms. is it healthy for the party to get this thing down to ten or will there be vital voices missing because of this criteria? >> i'm of two minds about it, which is not a good thing on cable tv. on the one hand you have not had any voters vote for a candidate.

so you're having a party and this artificial rule culling the herd. i don't think that's democratic with a small d. at the same time there's nobody who thinks having two nights with more than ten people each night is a good thing or the party or good thing for any of the people who might eventually be the candidate. so, again, i'm bothered by it a little bit but i also think it's better for the democratic party. >> we go through the list, by the way, candidates who were there this week, seth wasn't there this week, doesn't look like he will be in september. tom steyer, the billionaire who started putting tons of money into early state ads, it's not impossible he will reach the polling threshold, that's another name you can put in the mix. there's even joe stes ak, who ran for senate in pennsylvania. >> he's not going to make it, i promise. >> mike ravel probably won't make it too. i will give you that one. let me put this on the table, the candidates in that group

like inslee, ryan, hickenlooper, who seem unlikely to keep going, is there one you look at and think that is a shame, that candidate should be out there and really should keep going? >> i don't know, i think if you look at the ones who will be there, it does actually span the spectrum, ideological spectrum we need going into this next round, and i was kind of a fan of the thousand flower blooming thing but now i just want the roses. >> it is amazing that you have basically two dozen people out there who decided to run and four, maybe five, registering in the polls. >> only four or five. look, i wrote an article, i was being somewhat glib a couple weeks ago called "so many white guys." it was based on what they had written but you have all of these people with this pretentious idea i should be running. some of these people should be running for the senate, mr. hickenlooper. some should be actively on the ground in their individual states, running for senate and house and doing other sorts of

things. i don't have a problem with the party creating arbitrary criteria. if i want you to be my party representative, you should be able to get 130,000 people to give you $1. you should be able to get into 2% in a poll on a regular basis. i don't think it's ridiculous. what will be compelling, once we get it down to the ten, what kind of opportunities will the lesser candidates even in that group have establish themselves? will beto finally pop? when he's finally down to ten people and it's just him, will he pop? elizabeth warren and joe biden, she's shown she does not necessarily attack people. she and bernie sanders did this mr. and mrs. smith think and they went and attacked the moderates and didn't go at each other. she may not even want to do that. the anticipation of a smaller group will not necessarily give us the interactions we want but i think it's good for democracy and good for the party. >> you mentioned the threshold is there to get a couple of points in the polls, donations. viral moment. can i just get a moment where i

go viral and people give me small money? and here's andrew yang, one of the candidates going to that. take a look. >> we need to do the opposite of what we're doing right now and the opposite of donald trump is an asian man who likes men. the way we win this election is we redefine economic progress that include all of the people that matter to the people in michigan and all of us like our own health, our well being, mental health, clean air and clean water, how our kids are doing. if we change the measures to lob around our own well being, we will win this election. >> i have to say, kirsten gillibrand, u.s. senator from a giant state in danger of not staying in these debates. members of congress, people with serious political resumes. andrew yang will probably keep in these debates. he's got enough support, polling and financial, to keep going. >> let's pause it, i know this sounds corny, but i revere the fact this many people are dedicated to public service and you had a stage full of people

who are competent, committed and passionate about it and all of them would be an improvement over donald trump. i would not include her, frankly. but by and large it's nice to have a committee full of talented people. and i think the lens is show how canny and street smart voters are already about this, is everyone is seeing this through the prism of donald trump. joe biden wouldn't be even in contention right now were it not for donald trump. i think voters are already sorting through who can beat trump. i think that's why polls have sort of mirrored where you're seeing the field shake out. >> you mentioned williamson, she got a lot of viral buzz after that debate but she right now would be on the cut line, would not make the next round of debates. august 28th, they have until then to do it. after the break, no one won the nomination in decades if they have not won the black

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ask your doctor about eliquis. mr. vice president, there's a saying in my community you're dipping into the kook-aid and you don't even know the flavor. [ laughter ] you need to come to the city of newark and see the reforms that we put in place. >> joe biden's high support among black voters hanging over last night's debate. candidates like cory booker trying to drive the wedge on biden's record on crime. black voters increasingly becoming a major part of democratic primary politics growing from less than 10% of democratic primary voters back in 1976 to at least one out of four we are expecting in next year's primaries. everyone is back with us. let me put the poll numbers up on the screen. we see biden doing well with black voters. this is a recent poll here. that's not what we were looking for. looking for white voters versus black voters in the democratic primary. joe biden isn't even leading.

joe biden's in second place behind elizabeth warren among white voters. but look at that, black voters, a quarter of the democratic electorate's going to be black, and joe biden is running laps around the field. by the way, cory booker sitting at 4% right now. jason johnston what, do you make of that? >> biden is comfortable. biden is someone the people know. i don't get a lot of these numbers myself. a lot of this is about age. older voters love them some joe biden. and all we want is trump out of office. the younger voters millennials and generation x like myself often want something more, often don't think that joe biden is going to be transformative enough. so the issue that he's going to have is sort of the reverse of bernie sanders in 2016. bernie sanders got young black voters, couldn't get anybody over the age of 30, right? basically joe biden's got to figure out a way to get younger african-americans to believe in him to understand that he's made changes since the 1994 crime bill, and then he actually has to have a comprehensive on the ground plan which very few

people except for cory booker talked about of how you're going to fight voter suppression. because even if you've got black people supporting you, if their votes don't count or they can't get to the polls, that doesn't count. >> and i am so glad you raised that age issue. black voters by age, biden's support by age. this is exactly what jason was pointing out. youngest voters, he's only at 27%. 65 plus he's at nearly 60%, donna. >> yeah. i mean, this is where you come to this question of younger voters who really think in terms of intersections. they don't just think about, you know, sort of where's the guy who's been with the black guy. and i think that that provides an opportunity for a lot of the other candidates to eat in there and turn that vote out. that vote basically didn't really show up in 2016. and this is a real opportunity. and the other thing is for joe biden, he's got to start looking

at what he's doing and saying what am i going to do to try to energize and galvanize this vote. the but i look at some of these candidates that won't be really appealing to those younger voters. and so i see that as an opportunity to grow. >> when donna says those voters stayed home in 2016, the consequences of staying home in 2016 was donald trump. and again i think this is another indication of voters being realistic about the consequences of not using their vote properly. >> and black voter turnout in 2016. quick break. we'll be right back. quick break. we'll be right back. this is not just the flu. it's meningitis b... and you're not there to help. while meningitis b is uncommon... once symptoms appear, they can progress quickly and can be fatal... sometimes within 24 hours. before you send your teen to college... make sure you help protect them.

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hey, and my thanks to rick stengel, donna edwards, tim o'brien, and jason johnson. that is going to do it for this hour. i am steve kornacki in for nicolle wallace. and "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts right now. ♪ if it's thursday, the second debate is over. but now the democratic battle shortly begins. is joe biden ready for a long fight? >> the first thing that i'm going to do when i'm president is i'm going to clorox the oval office. [ laughter ] >> plus, kirsten gillibrand's clorox swipe. it might've been the line of the night, but will it help her clean up in the polls? the 2020 candidate joins me live. and mitch mcconnell gets russian trolled. the nickname that's