watching. watching. watching. coming up on the maybe hasn't. so to make sense of the upper shifting narrative to explain why trump took classified documents mar-a-lago. you need to understand the math trump has tapped to be his point person on this and believe me to just the tip of the iceberg. plus, you knew biden's historic stone relief would be taxed. but why is some of it coming from within his own party? democratic congressman and debt cancellation supporter talk. and conservatives tried to report him twice. but l.a.'s progressive prosecutor isn't going anywhere. i'll speak the da george gascón about his victory the path ahead for criminal justice reform.

welcome to the show i'm mehdi hassan. you know you can tell the case of the classified documents at mar-a-lago it's serious. donald trump isn't doing interviews. not lucky used to. and it's absent, one trump boxes all over right-wing media. showing he can explain this calmly. should he can explain take down the heat about the face trump using his message to the dartmouth. >> it starts and hence with russia. ukraine impeachment. one karat at the hillary clinton email investigation scandal. the hunter biden laptop. we have the same winds for pete operation by the democrats or the radical left in the media. same correct we are government gangsters, the same agents that were involved in russia gate they want to hide the corruption of the fbi and doj. but the deep state does is they

fight back by attacking has personally. public enemy number one has always been donald trump. this is what the mar-a-lago rate was about. this farcical raid operation of the doj and the fbi as part of a political operation by the same select few of the corrupt politicians. who are acting as fbi agents. >> wow that is a cool measured character. meet kash patel the man making those baseless games you just heard. he's a former trump defense department official who has been deputized by the former president to be his representative to the national archive over those missing documents. if trump is going to battle this is a star lieutenant. did you notice this wasn't just one appearance by patel it was three different interviews on fox and newsmax. all banging the same. john that is some serious message discipline from capitol. there is also a grand unified theory about the conspiracy theories. the quantum mechanics of

tinfoil battery when it comes to the trump documents. story was this guy really? but is a former pentagon official doing as trump's attacked all in this legally sensitive moment. it all kind of makes sense if you view cash patel's pending job and his current role as loyalty rewards for doing trump's bidding during his term in office. but tao was so involved in trump's battles with the intelligence community that the washington post designation wrote patel appeared so frequently and so many in turkey nations that he was almost as then it's bigger in president donald trump's confrontation against what he imagined has the deep state. but tell doesn't exactly fit the standard mold of a trump stalwart. he's the ice hockey loving sign of indian immigrants, he worked for years the public defender in miami. before joining the justice department in 2014. let's face it trump's hard-pressed for defense lawyers will take a month. hey, now you've got a guy who's defended accused killer sparkle traffickers and financial criminals. helping him fight off the deep

state. but does political career really took off at the start of the trump presidency when he became a top stopper on the republican-led house intelligence committee. according to sources who spoke with david the justice department will later investigate whether patel was leaking classified information that the committee had access to. concerning the initial investigation of trump world contact. with russia. the doj has not commented on that publicly but tell responded to the reports this week on newsmax. >> you know, when the washington post spent months doing it hit pieces on. you and i think that's the second one but that genius journals over. they're just gonna know you're over the target. >> charming. as with most of trump inner circle, and the silver look at themselves resume with suggest he was unqualified for his very senior post in government. especially his final job in the trump administration running the day to day affairs of the pentagon, as chief of staff to act in the pen secretary chris miller. but south within that job, on

january six when he later told the tannery bear reported that he was a regular contact with them chief of staff, at the white house, mark meadows. all day. so a pretty crucial figure. last, year patel, eventually compiled with a subpoena to speak with the house january six committee. we don't know what's patel told the committee behind closed doors, but what is patel saying publicly now about how trump handle january the 6th? when he's not talking to congressional investigators? >> they said, hey guys, we have enough security posture to assist law enforcement on i'm paraphrasing. he said, as the commander chief, you have my authorization for up to 20,000 national guardsmen and women. our response, roger that sir. >> we are. that is not the former acting defense secretary, chris miller, told the once a committee. or for that matter what even donald trump initially said. according to trump, after the generated six, he said you want to be 10,000 troops. a court to chris miller, even

that said by the president in jest. and the pentagon has no record of trump giving them an order. so again why is kash patel the man of the hour to plead donald trump's case on tv? perhaps it is for his ability to spin fantasies of trump's interest. i don't mean that just as a trauma phrase, i mean i literally. just look at cash patel's children's book. yes, his children's picture book. titled, the plot against the king. the picture book uses characters such as king donald and hillary clinton to tell the story behind the steele dossier and the russian collusion narrative. i kid you not. that even makes himself a wizard, in the book. i was a two proclaims cling tunnels this and said the route. he says republicans wants banned books. donald trump this book should be in every school in america. but when patel is not writing very odd and there are, say very sycophantic children's

book. he's back to his old tricks on right-wing, is running interference or trump. according to patel, the mar-a-lago rate happened because the feds are trying to block you from seeing the explosive truth. he says, trump had some classified documents from that fbi investigation of russia contacts. and the rate was to keep him from sharing them with you. there's only one problem with that. the washington post and the new york times is citing sources familiar domestication site now that those documents, run in the midterms pertain to the russian invasion should be the cash of documents -- but wasn't trump's resort home going to a letter from the national archives? was a cash of more than 700 pages of classified documents. including documents related to special access programs. some of the nation's most closely held secrets. but of course, as you heard, kash patel say earlier. that's just fake news from the radical left of the media. but the problem is, that invoke

i'm directly from the national archives in the letter they released this week. but not to, worry cash patel has another rather absurd legal argument for. you that donald trump can work literal miracles with a wave of this hand. he areas, making that case into different fox appearances, this month. >> the president's soul and universe arbiter and classification of the authority in the united states of america. president trump, as a sitting president is a unilateral authority for the classification. if he says a document is the classified, or set of them, that is it. >> you can literally stand a reset of documents and say these are not the classified. >> he can? i bet he can turn water into wine to? okay fine, it is more like how michael scott from the office thinks bankruptcy works. >> i declare bankruptcy. >> unfortunately for cash patel,

outside experts and other former trump officials, say that is not how the classification works. it still needs to be deliberations and written receipts. notice declassification states of any that material matter to when there he broke the. law as former fbi agent aysha told me on the show on monday. >> the legal liability that trump has goes beyond the classified documents. any official document he has is a stolen government official documents and stolen property, he's on the hook for those. >> cash patel's right in one regard. the mar-a-lago rate is like the clinton emails, that hunter biden briefcase, the russia investigation, the trump impeachment, and the january six probe. in the sense that republicans spin masters, right-wing pundit, trump will die hards, ike patel himself. have money to all of these affairs with partisan conspiracy theories and lies. still, why am i spending ten

minutes on this of all people? we want to dismiss was just one of the big talking trump like. but for all his lies, all his belligerence, all these children's book fantasies. it is worth remembering that after donald trump lost the election in the closing months of 2020. he tried to stop cash but so as the number two man at the cia. sarah direct the time threatened to resign. it 2020 we dodged a bullet. but if trump runs again in 2024. and with the presidency. and seeks to crush of the investigation against them. who do you think donald j trump will want to put in charge of the fbi. as for the cia. this guy. still to come. we turned back to the current administration. how will president biden's historic decision on student loan relief impact they november but terms. wisconsin congressman mark

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exactly the way it is, buying votes for a 10,000 dollar loans? >> we have a lot of people who work on my tv show. they're not making 125 grand. there are no eligible to cases to 20,000 other cases 10,000. this is new green deal radical socialism. >> it would be like someone who

is addicted to heroin going from horrendous withdrawals, there is a certain person in the room who says, the major we can do to give them withdrawals give them another bump of heroin. >> those are just some of the bizarre reactions from fox hosts to biden spans to cancel some student debt for millions of americans. and can i just, say sean hannity, then after 1 am totally in favor of members of my team getting student debt relief if they are eligible. but his tent has knowledge for boris, and up to 20 grand for low and middle income wars are also risky power grants. also extending the repayment freeze one final time before the end of this year. we wouldn't really do -- room ethiopia lawmakers are -- but it is just coming from the right. some centrist democrats are also complaining. tim, ron who is currently running for the senate, said in part that ray waving gap for those already on the trajectory for financial security sends the wrong message to the

millions of ohioans without a degree, working just as hard to make ends meet. you have congressman chris pompous arguing that president biden did not have authority on the matter, saying the statement of this announcement was no way to make policy. and five steps congress in our oversight in fiscal responsibilities. -- concerns you raise an important issue. biden's plan may not survive the courts. since it would be implemented by executive action, and is likely to face legal challenges. the centrist think tank third wave tells the washington post at such a college could be based on the recent supreme court ruling that says the federal government can collect cannot act on policy. with the current hard right majority on the supreme court, biden student loan forgiveness ambitions could be squashed before anybody gets to take advantage. the president has not yet addressed these potential challenges, keeping his focus winds down those who stand to benefit. especially those who could see their remaining balance is

completely eliminated. >> that is 20 million people who can start getting on with their lives. all of this means people can start finally crawling out from under that mountain of debt, to get on top of their rent and their utilities. to finally think about buying a home or starting a family or starting a business. and by the way, when this happens the whole economy is better off. >> to talk more about biden's student loan relief pant plan, let's turn to mark hogan, a member of the congressional progressive progressive caucus. , kokand thank you for coming back on the show. what are your thoughts for the biden student debt plan? does it go far enough? some of the left in your party say it, doesn't some say just drop in the if you compare to the total, what is, it 1.6 trillion dollars of federal student loan debts? >> thank you for having me on your show. i think it is a really great announcement and a great move to help both the economy and society, so many people have

student debt. i was listening to the radio the other day, someone who was 60 years old and still paying off their student debt. that is not good for that individual, for their family. and it is, not ultimately, good for the economy. with the president did is relieved when he said he was going to do when he ran. once again kept to his word. $10,000 worth of dads. and also $10,000 for people who are pell grant recipients. i was a pell grants recipient. i grew up in a lower middle class family. so the families in the people who need it the most are going to get the most help. and i think this is a really strong move. >> and it is not just criticism from the left. some on the right of your party are going to be knocked it with this biden plan. you are the main congressman, for example, jarred golden, who says this plan is, quote, out of touch with a majority of the american people want from the white house. which is leadership to address the most immediate challenges the country is facing. i mention ohio congressman tim

ryan. who also, said quote, instead of forgiving student loans we should be working to level the playing field for all americans. what would you say to your colleagues on the right of the party? pretty scathing about the plane and the president. >> it was all kinds of good things we were doing for different people. the infrastructure bill, that creates 1 million and a half new jobs. a lot of the blue collar jobs. they are gonna be, done by people, in many, places without college degrees. we've done something to help those people and their families. in this case, while people who have a college education. in many, cases called from some of the poorest families. you can help lift everyone's a vote and to do the right thing. i think the president keeps doing the right thing, and this is just one more of those proposals. >> some critics also argue that biden's plan does not address the root cause of this issue, which is the it rages cost of a college education in america in 2022. how do you address that, congressman? because without action, their debt cancellation is just a temporary mandate. >> that is a very valid concern,

which we all should have. i want to make sure the people are not priced out of education. if they are smart enough incapable enough you should be able to get that education. which is why support things like pell grants and student loans. i think that is a very real issue that we are looking, at a number of ways in congress. some of those private colleges that folded in the last while from student debt, the president also fix that situation. but those were some of the worst actors that were out there. many of them don't exist anymore. i think there is some forward movement on that. but i think we can continue to work on affordability, well we are dealing with people who currently have debt, and relieving some of that. >> just circling back to what we were discussing a while ago but your colleagues criticisms, probably political poorly thrown view -- a good response -- from a political perspective it is a mid term year. is it helpful to have high-profile democrats like tim ryan running for the senate,

basically lynn besting the presidents signature plan on student debt? >> i will not comment directly on anyone's comments. i will tell you what i'm saying. about my district as i go up with other people in other districts. which i am doing. this is a great move. this benefits a lot of people. this is good for the economy, good for society. we want people to be able to get higher education and get into jobs that can continue to pay well, and pay taxes that support the overall government. there is no reason to take one idea down, when there are other guys ideas instead. when you talk about all the good coming out of the session in this administration. from the rescue plan to the infrastructure bill to the chips act to the inflation reduction act, and now something like this. we have done a lot to help people. let's to celebrate those things, that's my attitude. >> very diplomatic, answer congressman. i want to turn to tuesday's election results. we saw new york democrat path to ryan defeat republican mark

molinaro and a special election. which was seen as a bellwether for november. congressman-elect pat ryan spoke to my msnbc colleague alex wagner on wednesday night but his campaign. alison. >> as a politician and a swing district who is trying to win as he, hold on to a seat. how much of the words donald trump uttered? >> we are not afraid to color donald trump as someone who, i believe, is essentially traitorous, at this. point threats to democracy are now top of mind among all these other issues for people. it is this cumulative effect of, in 48 hours you put more salt weapons on the seat. you will be way reproductive freedom and access to abortion. you dismantled the epa. we are hearing more about january six. we are hearing about we'll continue talking with the president. it is guardrails of democracy increasingly being his. that is a wake up call for folks. >> has your soon to be new colleague pat ryan found the

key for democratic party messaging in november? the democrats can and should lean into all these issues, and not follow the mark hospice advice of those who, say, stick to economic issues. kitchen table issues. as if those issues do not include abortion rights and democracy and standing up to gop extremism. >> we just saw its own polar, the numbers of new recent poll was democracy. -- that's going to affect their families. i was in wisconsin second directional district, is an open sea there trying to hold on times retiring. guy name brad ross is running -- went to the insurrection using campaign funds, and he got into a fight with a 17-year-old librarian turned over lgbtq book book display. then he proceeded to check out all the books, but one. there are some wackos out

there. and we need to be able to settle differences out there. that you can either have an extremists who thinks an inter selection is proper for behavior of congress or you can elect the broad patch across the country who are going to talk about these issues in a much stronger way. i think congressman-elect -- is right, and i hope more people run like that. >> one last, question congressman. in florida we saw big progressive win in the democratic primary in florida's tenth district. he is now likely to become one of the first gen z members of congress. i know you went to florida to campaign for him. what was that? like >> you know, he is a great candidate. this is what you need about 30 -- diversity in congress. it is not just 70 years old and 30-year-olds. we need gen z members, somebody is already a talented community organizer. had a support within the community from labor across the spectrum. to win a primary, this is a future of the democratic party. we need more candidates like this.

and groups like the progressive caucus are strongly behind it maxwell. he is going to be an outstanding member of congress. >> congressman mark pocan, thank you so much for your time, appreciate it. >> yeah. same to you. >> be sure to tune in tonight at 8 pm when i will be talking to florida congressional candidate maxwell frost about his bid to become one of congress's first gen z members. still to come, conservatives want you to believe that progressive prosecutors are soft on crime. and get them recalled from office. work in san francisco, but not everywhere. i will speak to l.a. district attorney george glasgow, who just some of the second attempt to kick him out of office. stay with us for that conversation. nversation

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they told me with the l.a. district attorney george gascón he was in danger of losing his job. conservatives they're trying to recall him twice, but after all that rigmarole, gascón will be staying in office. he was elected in the wake of george floyd's murder despite the fact that he was once a. calk gascón the support of activists by promising to reduce incarceration rates, and reform the criminal justice system. the conservatives soon targeted the new da and soft on crime, and they blamed him for the county's rising crime rates. -- has seen more homicides in violent crime since gascón took office. but it is not clear at all his

attempts to reduce incarceration are to blame for that. a point i guess going himself made well appearing on this show back in december of 2021. >> when i am trying to do it is not something that actually is probably safe. on the contrary, i believe that reform some public safety actually work well together we have seen the. reverse this county we have 27% increase in violent crime during the period of time when we get incarcerated. four times the rate in san francisco, and higher rates in almost every other county and state. there is no correlation with over incarceration and safety. >> it appears that l.a.'s voters may agree with him, because opponents knew there were 550,000 signatures to get gascón's recall on the ballot. the pay came up nearly 50,000 signatures short. so, he is safe. but gascón's counterpart in san francisco, former da chaser bouden was not so lucky. they're the concerted effort effort to brand putin this off

crime work, and he was officially recalled the place earlier this summer. to progressive california do, yays to recall efforts one success in one failure. why does the takeaway? as activists continue to try to reform the broken criminal justice system. it is gascón used to see another day as da, has his approach changed at all? let us ask. him george costco joins me now. thank you so much for coming back on the show. it turns out the delay did not want to go the way of san francisco. what was the key to beating this recall effort in a light in your view? >> you know, matty, i think that during my election i was very strong supporter by many, many different parts of our community. and that support continues from the very beginning of my administration. i think that we were able to continue to galvanize people, and those that were seeking the recall went way of their way.

they spent a lot of money. they liked people. they did all kinds of -- then geisha and fraudulent activity, the collecting signatures and falsifying signatures. even after that, with a very low threshold, people say popping 2000 is a lot of signatures. it is if you consider the 10 million plus people county. the reality is they could not get through the first one because the people of this community want to have a criminal justice system that is more -- and they want safety, but they recognize that safety and reform are not -- with one another. >> the recall is not happening, but i'm sure your critics would still play into warring crime statistics in your jurisdiction. for example, point to a homicide being a ten-year high. it has increased 50% from just two years ago. what is your response to those critics? >> look, first of all, it is

concerning. i will be the first to admit that i worry a great deal about violent crime. with so many things in our community, working with the prosecutors, going after -- fingers. the other part of, this this is a national problem, is funds to us the have very conservative prosecutors. they're perricone for the violent crime is actually higher than ours. the point is hard to make, especially with all the fearmongering, is quite frankly, the worst that the work the prosecutor does on the basis is not really going to influence the daily increases of addictions in violent crime. they work that we do does have a tremendous impact on the quality of life in our community, or among a period of time, when you break down community by unnecessary longer periods of incarceration. when we over incarcerate or

criminalized. that waiting list is where we have a tremendous impact. the day-to-day swings in crime numbers going up and down. when you are right wing or moderate or a progressive prosecutor, quite frankly you are going to have very little impact on a daily basis. we've seen across the board. >> i want to play you a clip from fox. how about we listen to some of the rhetoric. >> the fact we have the highest increase in the murder rate on history, that is a direct result of democratic policies, whether defunding the police or limiting bail systems or cutting sentences for drug dealers. despite with the democrats are saying, now the american people know that democrats are and always have been soft on crime, and that is endangering americans. >> that was tom cotton of arkansas in fox pushing the standard conservative narrative, which, is crime is out of control, democrats have to trump crime, progressive

prosecutors out of control. how sure democratic candidates in your view, going into the midterms or crime is a big issue, not just with conservatives but liberals too, how should they combat that gop talking point about rising crime, crime and of control? >> first of all i think we need to push back. we cannot lose our center of gravity. i'm worried that some democrats are running scared and are. forgetting the reality is there have been very releasing publications of violent crime and crime increases and restrictions have gone up. unfortunately, much higher than in other jurisdictions. those numbers are up there. i understand in the political camping trial, statistics sometimes don't matter. but we half to be very thoughtful about the things that we do in the things that we say. we cannot go back to the 19 and 1990s. we cannot go back to --

the war on drugs, the war in our community. yes, we have to be concerned with the increase in crime. yes we have to make sure that we are doing everything that we can. but we have to do it in a way that is smart, but is thoughtful. and we have to be a better communicator than we often are. i include myself in this. we have to be out there. we to call things as they are. i fear that if we try to outdo republicans we will never succeed. and it will go down the rabbit hole. >> one last question, changing tack. you are the da in l.a. of course. some state and local prosecutors have become household names thanks to the efforts to try to hold former president trump and his allies to account. if you were new york -- or fulton county da ferrante willis would you be going off to trump in the same way they have? more aggressively? >> i think they are doing the right thing. obviously i only know it is in the media.

but white collar crimes which is what this really amounts to or integrity crimes require tremendous amounts of effort. it lends itself to complicated cases, a lot of resources went into it. but you know, we have an obligation to make sure the reporting everybody accountable. everybody should be held to a standard and a high belief, that these are prosecutors into doing the work that they were elected to do by their community and certainly those cases if they were to come our, away would be looking at the very similarly. i commend them for their courage, i know difficult it is to go after someone that is powerful and politically influential, it is not an easy job. >> we will have to leave it there. it certainly is not an easy job. george, gascón appreciate it. thank you. still to come, what are today's young activists dreaming about? we know what they are fighting against, boarded a fighting for?

those are the questions posed by book worth in 20 years ago. freedom dreams, black radical imagination. the, author robin dj kay, joins me after the break. me after the break d's work, meet daughter's playtime. thankfully, meta portal auto pans and zooms to keep you in frame. and the meeting on track. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you. ♪ ♪ the smart video calling device discover sound that can truly move you in the 2022 grand wagoneer. awarded best driver appeal by j.d. power. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis persists... put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill.

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important tool in our tool box in the fight for social justice. if you don't use it, protests mean nothing. if you do not vote, advocacy means nothing. and the reality is the vote is the most precious and important

tool we have. if we use, it we can change lives. do not forget that. do your research. pull back the latest. ask the questions. but at the end of the day, make sure you go to that ballot box and vote. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> it's been more than two years since the fatal police shooting of breonna taylor and her kentucky apartment. we are still getting more details about what led to that shooting. this week, a former louisville detective pleaded guilty to federal conspiracy charges for helping falsify the search warrants that allowed police to break into taylor's apartments. investigators say he should have the false lying to the warrant and conspired with another detective to create a story when taylor's shooting death began to get national attention. breonna taylor, george floyd, ahmaud arbery. those places galvanized millions of protesters across america and around the world in

2020. protesters demonstrating against racial injustice and bias in policing. there have been continuing calls to spend less money on police, more on social services. demonstrators also pushed big corporations out the government to address systemic racism and economic injustice. when joe biden took office we had a president using phrases like systemic racism and racial injustice. in finding executive orders to try to address those issues. of course, there was a backlash from the right. which has already begun attacking schools were teaching about the injustices brought on racial minorities. now, we saw conservatives accusing racial justice advocates of being anti police and even and state wise. to hear them tell us, just talking about systemic racism was somehow anti american. the country has taken some steps forward in the fight for racial justice since 2020. but it does not always feel that way. how do we measure where we are now, from where we have come in

two years? did we achieve anything? was it worth it? or maybe there's all the wrong questions. this is from acclaimed author and professor robin d.k., in the new forward for his 2002 acclaimed book, freedom dreams. quote, a prudential snow touts to move beyond a bipolar understanding of social movements is either winning or losing. to, focus instead, on the collective radical imagination that conjures and sustains visions of freedom, even in the darkest times. kelly is with a 20th anniversary edition of the book, it looks at block grassroots movements and radical traditions differently from some other scholars. how does the professor from a ucla see the racial justice movement, the, quote, black spring of 2020 as he calls it? it is a compared to past movements, and what makes imagination about the future radical to begin with? award-winning author robin dj k joins me now, he is a distinguished preface of american history ucla a

recipient of the prestigious guggenheim fellowship of 2014. thank you so much for coming on the show. let's start with some, news news unmentionable want to go. with the breonna taylor case. the office with a guilty to falsifying a war that led to the deadly police raid. what is your reaction to stories like this, even though in 2022? >> thank you. kelly goodlow was forced to confess to this, is not unusual. falsifying warrants is so common that in fact with the kentucky's overestimated reporting fans that something like 70% of the warrants executed and a one-year period from 2019 to 2020 had, unelectable signature from a judge, or based on some misinformation. in, fact this is a national problem. none of us were surprised by that. what is tragic for me and i think for a lot of people is that -- she may be prosecuted for lying,

but no one is being prosecuted for killing taylor. >> yes. very good point a very depressing point. let's talk about the. police in the bookie reference something you worked in 2017. i want to. quota you said the today's organized protests in the street, others pretend the release of a police state in the united states. for the past five, years of the insurgencies of the movement for black lives and its dozens of allies organizations have left the country's racist state sanction violence and the mass catering of black and brown people. we are headed for a fascist state. that is a quote. it was uncomfortably pressure and in its warning, given what came in 2020 and january six 2021. so let me ask you this. what's a factual state in america look like? given the old refrain of, it could not happen here? >> that is an excellent question. especially in light of the recent conversation with the white historians, and biden,

about the threat of fascism. which i felt was pretty interesting. because though in some ways the quote maybe professions, it also refers to a long history of fascist presence in the united states. aj so happens that the majority of americans may not have experienced that kind of fascism. for example, jim crow itself is a form of fascism. it is denying people basic constitutional rights. under a police state. slavery certainly was a form of extreme fascism. colonialism everywhere is a form of fascism. in, fact part of the argument about fascism in europe is that is the application of colonial practices to european nations. in terms of germany and italy. so in some ways what we see are flashes of fascism. but right now, what i think we are afraid of is the possibility that you could actually have a fascist state affect everybody.

just to be clear, fascism is not simply state power and state rule. it is not putting people in camps. sometimes it is denying people eat right to assign books in the classroom. it's book banning in book running. it is creating a narrative. so we see the fascist state, in some, ways is already here for people who are a locked up. people with reservations. we are facing the threat of it. >> just on the whole defund the police controversy, an ideal it has become perhaps one of the most polarizing from the 2020 movement and protest, you write in your book how many cities pushed for defund efforts. but as we know now, a lot of that was rolled back. what might roll there? how will it gain elusive or so quickly, especially becoming a taboo, phrase especially on the left? >> i will forge myself, because

i know any other person who's yesterday the day before, that you were talking about republicans and their demands to defund the fbi. which is, hilarious when you think about it. because in a, sense the front is not even the best word. the best phrase is divest, invest. the wishes to, say the movements that a marriage not just in spring of 2020, but i've been in virginia there for the last 20 or 25 years, have been pushing for taking money away from prisons. policing. this failed war on drugs. this military budgets. we've two thirds of the pentagon spending goes to private contractors, fossil fuel industry, trade policies that benefit risks. and investing, creating different kinds of public -- by putting money into education, universal health care, housing, living wage jobs. and especially things like

community based drug and mental health treatments. restorative justice. not spending money on catering people. and that makes us safer. the police have shown over and over again that making us safe is not merely their objective. and one last thing i should say about defund, we spend so many billions of dollars. billions of dollars of covering police misconduct. unlawful death. cases where police violate civil rights. and cities have to take out loans. basically taking it municipal debt to pay for these settlements. that is a huge amounts of money. then, of course, finance capital like tradesmen helmet makes money off the interest, and there are those who hold the bonds, ultimately, of the interest.

this is the reality. because of rules that allowed police to violate civil rights without being prosecuted. >> it is. it is. thank you for putting it in that. way we are there. time robin dj, we appreciate you coming on the show. the 20th anniversary edition of freedom dreams, a black radical imagination, is out now. coming up, joe biden may have had one of his best moments as president this week. did you miss? it will catch you up after the break. it is a good one. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months... and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections, or a lower ability to fight them, may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. ♪nothing is everything♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi.

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