when i was covering congress, would in d. c., farmer is up there in the top five. it's like the top of the banks. it's like the most powerful industries. that's still the case in 2023. >> you know it's really interesting because inflation reduction act is considered a loss because there are some drug pricing things that are happening as a result of that. that is considered a loss for pharma, which is the lobbying group that represents the pharmaceutical industry. maybe they are losing some power. brittani sounded shots of the chairman of the senate health committee, and he is dragging these pharmacy deals in front of current congress. we will see if there's more pressure, and if that result in more of this kind of. thing >> we should note, of course, that it started out, that legislation started out considerably more aggressive in terms of what it's gonna do farmer prices and it's a bigger sin print of money from the industry. sean morrow, meg tirrell, thank you for being here. that's all in for this thursday night. rsp john durham, we miss you man. you say to kyrsten sinema? are you just connecting some dots? >> i have a pet theory on sinema that she really believes all this. >> that's more generous than i think a lot believe. >> i don't know. >> we'll discuss that later. thank you, my friend. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. just yesterday nearly two months to the day after his brutal

fight for the speakers dpafbl house speaker kevin mccarthy put that hard fought victory to work and announced a piece of legislation that is at the heart of the republican platform. standing in front of the portrait of george washington the speaker described rights. >> so many parents were attacked, call terrorists because they simply wanted to go to a school board meeting to be heard on what's going on. one thing going on in this country is education is a great equalizer and we want parents to be empowered, and that's what we're doing today, that you have a say in your kids education, not government, and not telling you what to do. >> the irony here is almost too obvious to explain. here's a bill introduced by the speaker of the house changing

the way parents children are taught in school. mccarthy is literally the government telling them what to do, and he's not alone. in the past several months there's been a wave of republican led bills attacking schools and attacking education. the concept of rights, it was listed in the priority of the conservative commitment to america speaker mccarthy kbroused before the mid-term election. you heard it again during the republican rebuttal to the president biden's "state of the union," and then there are the parents rights style bills introduced in states like nebraska, arizona, and missouri. the list goes on. but in pretty much every case the phrase parents rights is misleading. what these government officials are actually doing is telling parents and their children what to do and what to learn and how to understand themselves. there is no politician in america who has seized on this concept of parents rights more publicly and more aggressively

than florida governor ron desantis. he signed a stop woke bill which restricted discussions of race in florida classrooms and workplaces. he signed a parental rights and education bill prohibiting classroom discussion on sexual orientation or gender identity in kindergarten through third grade. and this week florida lawmakers introduced a bill to expand a ban on gender identity education through eighth grade. the bill would also ban people from using pronouns that accurately describe their gender identity. to banning the new ap african american studies course, florida has become the model for restrictions that target minority groups and seek to rewind the clock on the way we teach american history and social studies. and nowhere is governor desantis' campaign to overhaul american education, nowhere is

it more pronounced than at a small public liberal arts school in sarasota called new college. >> today we're announcing a series of proposals to continue to lead in the area of higher education. the first thing that we're going to propose is we want to make sure that everybody that goes through a florida university has to take certain core coarse requirements that's really focused on giving them the foundations so that they can think for themselves, and the core curriculum must be grounded in actual history, the actual philosophy that has shaped western civilization. we don't want students to go through at taxpayer expense and graduate with a degree in zombie studies. >> zombie studies and actual history. new college is funded by florida taxpayers. it was founded in the civil rights era and opened its doors to its first class of 100

students in 1964 to provide a hands on learning experience that wasn't limited by a bureaucratic curriculum. its founders envisioned a place with complete freedom of inquiry. it was launch today be an institution inclusive of students regardless of their race, religion, national origin or their cultural status. despite that history or maybe because of their history governor desantis has targeted new college. the students and teachers there are calling it a hostile takeover. and to be honest if you look at what governor desantis has done thus far they've got a point. to begin with desantis installed loyalists on the new board of trustees this past january explaining the school badly needed a new overhaul. >> it hasn't been successful and enrollment is down so much because people want to see true academics and want to get rid of the window dressing.

>> they're not true academics and graduate with degrees in zombie studies. but actually i went down to new college a few days ago, and wow, did i see something different than the picture the governor has been painting. i talked to some of the students on the campus to find out why they are and what they are actually learning and most urgently how governor desantis is trying to change all of it. how did you end up here? >> i was looking at state universities and i toured uf, toured fsu, sat in these classes and 4, 500 kids and the professor didn't know who the kids were. the student who give me a tour told me when she has a question on her homework where she texts the professor even on the weekend. that's unheard of at school. >> my parents said, no, you're not studying abroad. so what's new college, and i searched it up and i was like oh, my god they imitate the

system of oxford university, have close teacher bonds with the students and i really fell in love at that point. >> what i like about it it's a supportive lgbt environment and early on in my transition i started new college 16 months into that and i didn't know who i was, who i wanted to be, i was running into a new persona i was developing and new college accepts that because a lot of other people are in that same boat. and it gave me a chance to grow as a person and figure out who i want to become. >> what about you guys over here? what surprised you when you came to new college? >> new college has a supportive atmosphere with students if they have a vision and passion and something they want to do they're given the resources and support to do it. for example, i started a collegiate rowing team. i it as an isp independent

project. i got course credits for it. >> when i came back there was no question in my mind i was like i'm coming back to new college because this a place that offers different perspectives and different culture, all the things we can get right here. >> when you first heard governor desantis talk about new college in his context of a war on woke what was your thought? >> i guess this goes back to last year or maybe 18 months ago he really began with the don't say gay bill and stuff like that. and when i first heard about that i knew this wasn't just going to stay through kindergarten through fifth grade. i knew this would spiral upwards. >> why'd you know that? >> understanding reactionary movements always start from more feasible goals. and anyplace that studies history knows it begins with easy targets and spirals up from there. it's even happening right now

where they pick new college the easy feasible new target and spiral up from here to statewide and then national endeavor. >> i know there's been a lot of talk about him running for president. there's a reason why he's picking on new college. there's a reason why he's fighting this war on woke. this is his brand, this is what he does. >> now, new college graduates go on at a higher rate. making the college among the top full-bright factories in the state of florida. new college remains for desantis and his allies a focal point of his anti-woke education, something cheryl grandberg compares to victor orbum. he installed loyalists like christopher rufo, a conservative

activist calling it the perfect villain for his conservative causes. mr. rufo's claims and his ideas have been picked up by conservative politicians and pundits across the country, and they are all watching how he applies those concepts at new college. as "the new york times" puts it for rufo, a reconstruct constructive new college would serve as a model for conservatives to copy all over the country. as rufo himself said if we can take this high risk, high reward gambit and turn it into a victory we're going to see state legislators start to reconquer public institutions all over the united states. he's joined desantis in his call for ending the diversity, equity and exclusion office claiming it divides people. >> one of the items i've discussed today with desantis and legislators present which is that diversity, equity and

inclusion which sounds great but divides people and offers separate judgment on the basis of race and gender identity. >> rufo and desantis' other installed trustees eliminated that very dei office and students at new college are bracing for more. what is it like being a student at new college and be accused of being a victim of indoctrination by the governor? go for it. >> i think it's really unfortunate because one of the reasons why i really love new college is because as everyone said you learn about new perspectives. i think there's this myth about us which is why i kind of think we're going targeted because a lot of the students do think alike, but what we think alike are people are people, we have empathy. we see someone who's not like us and say that's okay, you don't have to be like me. that's what's seen as

indoctrination because we're not just learning about white perspective history. i think they think we're not smart enough to see it's cloaking. they'll say all these things and every time they have the opportunity to change leadership, change anything, it always is another white male. >> when we talk about like wokism, we're not actually talking about wokism. that's not a thing. what is a thing is the belief in, like, in freedom and freedom of investigation, the freedom to learn the truth and to find the truth. that freedom is under attack here as well as the freedom to feel safe as a person that you are, whoever you may be. and those are values that i think the majority of people in this country have. and they're values that are underattack right here by

desantis. >> this is what he said. the core curriculum must be grounded in actual history, the actual philosophy that's shaped western civilization. we don't want students to go through at taxpayer expense and graduate with a degree in zombie studies. >> what is his definition of actual history? that's very, very vague. >> what do you think it is? >> i don't know. he doesn't tell me. i think he just wants to show one side of history, but the world is messy. the world is, like -- the world is diverse. you have to show that. >> when it comes to that statement by ron desantis i personally find it i guess comedic and ridiculous in my own sense because i'm a neuro science major and i'm minoring in applied mathematics computer science and chemistry. >> zombie studies. >> so i don't think i've seen a major listed as zombie studies and how that connection with history came about. i think someone who must have

taken a zombie studies major can make that argument. >> i'm an economics major with a finance minor. i'd love to sit down with mr. desantis and have him call me radical to my face. this semester i'm taking five economics classes, one political science class. i will not take a gender stuies class. at the end of the day we learn what we want to learn here. >> you've been hearing words like woke and critical race theory for years now. i couldn't not tell you what they mean. woke practicing basic empathy, valuing people part of your community, you mean american history? it's so confusing. so it's incredibly frustrating to constantly hear all these buzz words and meaningless things being thrown at us when they have no batsz and don't seek to understand why we're here. i think the bottom line here at new college we do not fear people being educated, do not fear people learning about

history and above all do not fear any books. and i think that speaks for itself honestly. >> the new college students are fighting back. they've organized campaigns and asked people to join a coalition to defend their college and educational freedom by visiting savenewcollege.org. but governor desantis is a well-funded and very powerful opponent. he won re-election last year with 60% of vote and now armed with what he believes is a political mandate. he has a super majority in the state legislature and controls higher education down to the school board to the high school level where he's endorsed and supported candidates across florida. he's preparing for to a likely 2024 presidential bid, some of the wealthiest republican donors in the country are cutting him seven figure checks for his presumed campaign. and when it comes to new college desant has already earmarked more than $15 million for his changes to the school. this is an asymmetrical fight.

what's your expectation about what's going to happen? >> i think that he's going to keep pushing forward this aggressive anti-democratic program across florida, across the florida university system, and he's going to try to take it national as well. and that's why it's important if you are somebody who does not agree with these anti-democratic ideals to epay attention to what's going on at new college because it is something of a cainary in a coal mine. >> governor desantis and his allies have said, well, new college needs to be overhauled because people aren't graduating at high rates, they're not getting high earning jobs immediately after dprajuation. the drop out rate after the first year is quite high. the school needs to be overhauled really undermining the academics here and the performance of students here.

>> i think it's fair to say new college has issues. i'm not a person going to say this college are perfect, our financials are great, housing is great. that's not the issue. the issue is there's so many lgbt -- >> people have been advocating better finances to build better dorms, a lot of infrastructureal things need help and the state never would expand funding, but now desantis is all of a sudden throwing in $15 million to an administration now they're coming in for some conservative takeover. they wouldn't just support this school, they wouldn't actually start supporting the school financially until they see it's being taken over in a conservative ideological manner and that really speaks to where their priorities are. >> is he going to win, though? >> i think he's going to win if people don't take notice. >> the main thing the students

are still here the students are still lgbt. the students still respect and encourage a diverse array of studies and want to understand the truth of society. and as long as we're here they can't change the culture of the school. >> this isn't any way to short change the fight i know you guys all have in you and the desire stoostay here, but have you thought -- have you at any point considered leaving? >> if it comes to a point where i no longer feel safe on campus, it may come to that point. then it's the point i would have to very seriously consider going elsewhere. >> what does that mean? >> there are a lot of extremist right-wing groups have become aware of the school, and that attention is to the detriment of student safety. >> i think students are very passionate about new college. it's different than other schools because new college students develop a very special connection and bond with the

school itself, so a lot of people are prepared to stay here and fight. >> governor desantis war on new college has been specific and aggressive and thus far very successful and it is far from over. when we come back florida lawmakers appear to be ready governor desantis even more power. the dean of columbia journalism school joins me to talk about what is at stake in florida and across the nation. stick around. stick around we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry.

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i hate to follow up bad news with worse news, but everything republican florida governor ron desantis is doing in his so-called war on woke at new college in florida, all of that could be the fate of every university in florida thanks to a bill introduced in the legislature last week. as the tampa bay times puts it the bill would turn many of governor ron desantis' wide ranging ideas on higher education into law. desantis is able to do what he's doing at new college because as governor he gets to appoint the majority of the board of trustees of every public college in the state. this bill would leave all faculty hiring decisions to those primarily desantis approved boards. it would also let the boards review any faculty member's tenure at any time.

so primarily desantis appointed boards could literally hire and fire anyone they want. if the point of these new unsolidated powers was unclear, the rest of the bill helps clear their purpose up. the bill removes all majors and minors like critical race theory or derivative major or minor of these belief systemch it prohibits spending funds on these activities that promote diversity, equity, and inclusion. and general education courses are prohibit from suppressing or distorting significant historical events or including a curriculum that teaches identity politics. in other words, this bill would take all of governor desantis' ideas from that war on woke and super charge them into actual law. this bill would allow the governor to force these policies on all of florida's public universities and all of their students and faculties. joining us now is jelani cobb.

dean cobb, i find this terrifying but i can't maej being someone in academia who's looking at what is happening down in florida and doesn't have chills down their spine. first of all, when you look at the fight that's happening at new college between a kind of ragtag but passionate believers in the mission of this college and the governor of this state is it -- how do you think it ends? >> i mean it's hard to predict how it will end in the short-term. they might get what they want at new college. >> the governor -- >> the governor might gets what he wants at new college. it might be a small institution relatively isolated, small pool of students likely small pool of alumni and you can just steam roll them. but i think in the long run this doesn't really work out to their advantage. and unfortunately, this doesn't really work out to the advantage

of the university system in florida. >> yeah. >> or the very many college students in the state of florida. and the reason i say that is that go ahead, kick out the tenure and strong arm people into what majors they can choose, and then watch what happens to your college records. watch the ways in which the competitiveness of your institutions decline, and moreover if you think you're going to actually do that and attract top quality faculty to your institutions, you won't. >> some people think that this is a really pernicious bid to just erode public education on a whole, to really cement the two tiers of public education, the private and charter school worlds. is that how self-sacrificing the republican party has got, that they're willingly saying we're going to create a public school system of education that's basically untenable that really

at rufaes the learning process and that will be okay because there'll be fewer libs in the world? >> maybe. but the other part there's a long-term economic consequence to this. all the ideals that go into higher edge caication and the principles universities are supposed to uphold and stand for. these are big employers. they generate a lot of revenue. a university has a whole ecosystem, a whole economic system that surrounds anything that happens there. and anything you do to diminish or weaken them has a secondary economic impact as well. and i think that once voters in the state -- and also there's a kind of pool of alumni very proud to have gone to florida state, very proud to have gone to the university of florida, very proud to have gone to the university of miami and these institutions, and they're they're looking what happens in the long run to those

institutions not being what they once were. i just don't see the long run benefit of it. >> there's a discreet conversation about what happens to florida, but i think it's worth stepping back for a moment and looking at the tactics being employed here and not mincing words what's going on, setting aside the end game, michelle goldberg had a piece in the times that basically compared what governor desantis to what an autocrat or victor orban is doing. she basically said we should stop calling this a culture war. this is what it looks like when you have a state trying to control and suppress its citizens. >> i don't think that's an overstatement. i don't think if we were actually looking at what the long-term objectives were here it would be astounding and terrifying to people. and the fact it's being framed as culture war, people thinking, oh, this is, you know, basically

like the equivalent, the political equivalent of a ports rivalry. we're not thinking about this in the long-term for free expression, which is also weird because one of the things they're using -- the rhetoric they're using is this is actually an attempt to bolster free expression. and that is the kind of height of cynical politics as it relates to this. >> i think it's officially called gaslighting. but one of the things about the measure the governor and his allies are taking both once extreme and totally vague, right? you can't engage in activities that are divisive or inclusive -- inclusive or divisive, you know? does that mean the black student union can't survive the litmus test? teachers are papering over their libraries and classrooms not because all the books have been

sensored, but they're terrified they're going to roun afoul of these cloudy, murky new piece of legislation. talk about what the implications are for academics in a moment like this where the fear is almost a point. >> one of the first things to point out the reason we have the tenure system we have now is a consequence of mccarthyism and the red scare where people were being intimidated out of their jobs, where people were being fired. where there were also conflations of red baiting and anti-selltism that drove many jewish professors out of the profession of university teaching. so all of this was learned out of a system, that fascistic element of american politics and that's where the system has come from. and to see it now all of that kind of going out of the window is absurd. one of the absurdities i've pointed out to a colleague you

can't even teach the history of florida. outside of all this you can't teach the fact the state of florida owes its origins as a u.s. territory in part to a desire to cut off an escape route for enslaved black people in georgia who were seeking shelter or being given shelter by the indigenous communities there. and that is part of the reason that the united states had the war, the first seminal war that culminated in florida. >> the irony is maybe the point, right, to not teach the history of florida is actually the point of all this, to not know your history and not know what came before. and we're actually going to -- we're going to talk about that in the next block if you could stay with us. >> sure. >> because coming up next one tennessee republican lawmaker has a shocking proposal that goes back to one of the darkest chapters in our nation's history. stick with us. nation's history. stick with us. ♪ ...i'm over 45. ♪ ♪ i realize i'm no spring chicken. ♪

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while florida governor ron desantis works to legally censor teachings about historic racism in his state an incident in tennessee this week is showing what happens when people disregard that history. on tuesday a bill in the state legislature that would allow inmates to be executed by firing squad, this brought up debate

before the tennessee house criminal justice committee. one lawmaker state representative paultia rel expressed support for the bill but felt it didn't go far enough. >> i was just wondering amount could i put an amendment by that that would include hanging by a tree? >> an amendment to allow lynchings as a method of state sponsored execution. representative shurel either somehow didn't know this history or chose to not recall it on purpose but lynch mobs in the confederate united states killed about 2,800 people about one person per week. 214 people were lynched in the state of tennessee alone during this period. state representative sharel has since apologized and says he regrets using, quote, very poor judgment. but his state representative colleagues had this to say. >> when i heard the statement, i

was sad and i was mad at the same time. i couldn't believe that i was hearing that, and of all committees a justice committee. the irony. a justice committee. and i don't need to hear anybody talk about it wasn't me, that i wasn't alive back then. i wasn't alive back then either, but i can assure you that multigenerational trauma still exists, not in only myself but in all black folks who are in america today. >> back with us is jelani cobb. this just to me seems like such an expression of why we need to talk about systemic racism and historic racism and also it was a full expression of what the right wants to be able to say uncensored, unfettered.

why do i have to worry about what the what the snowflake liberals think of me? i'm going to go out with my vigilante justice ideas, history be damned. >> it's the words those who don't learn history are doom today repeat it. sometimes we repeat history precisely because people have learned from it. meaning there are people who observe the worst of it past and want to actually drag that into the present. but when you look at the history of that state, you know, the indefensible, the memphis riot of 1866 where black women were raped en masse and black men were murdered in the aftermath of the civil war, the anti-lynching crusade that ida b. well, the early journalist who fought against lynching began when three of her friends were lynched in the state of tennessee, you walk through the whole history, the whole blood

soaked history of what happened in that state and other confederate states and other states outside the confederacy for that matter. and so it is a derogatory insult to the people who actually know what happened with that history and who are the ancestors rather the descendants of the people who suffered that. >> i think representative hardway brings up this really important point. it's not just no one should be ignorant but saying things like that continues a cycle of multigenerational trauma. just the utterance of that alone is wrong. and i think people don't -- there's no conception of the human cost of even proposing an idea like that on the justice committee. and that's where the impunity has to -- and that's precisely why we're trying -- that's why you have diversity and inclusion training, right? that's why you teach people history. that's why we talk about racism so people understand how totally

unacceptable it is to think just the idea of suggesting lynching as a method of execution seems unfathomable to even hear in the year 2023. >> that's where we are. >> jelani cobb, thank you so much, professor, dean, great wise man of the moment helping me get through what is just a very unfortunate chapter in american politics. still ahead we'll take a look at the big news out of south carolina tonight where after just three hours of deliberation a jury has convicted south carolina lawyer alex murdaugh of murdering his wife and son, how the jury came to a verdict so quickly and what to expect tomorrow at sentencing is next. stay with us. expect tomorrow ag is next. stay with us

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justice was done today. it doesn't matter who your family is. it doesn't matter how much money you have or people think you have. it doesn't matter what you think, how prominent you are, if you do wrong, if you break the law, if you murder, then justice will be done in south carolina. >> that was south carolina prosecutor creighton waters tonight reacting in the trial of alex murdaugh found guilty of two counts of murder and two counts of possession of a weapon during commission of a violent crime. he was accused of murdering his wife and 22-year-old son of using a shotgun and rifle at the family's rural hunting property.

both local and national news have been focused on this case in part because of murdaugh's deep family ties to the legal community in their small south carolina. a portrait of murdaugh's grandfather who served as the 14th circuit solicitor had to be removed from the courtroom prior to the trial. more recent murdaugh histhas been the source of considerable intrigue. it surfaced alex murdaugh had committed numerous financial crimes. during the trial murdaugh admitted to those financial crimes. murdaugh also admitted to hiring a man to shoot and kill him so that his son could collect murdaugh's life insurance policy. murdaugh could face hundreds of years in prison for those crimes alone. but the crimes murdaugh was just tried for were the alleged murder of his wife and child, and that trial was full of its own twists and turns. initially murdaugh claimed he'd not been present at the time of

his wife and sons deaths, but during the trial the prosecution showed a cellphone video establishing alex murdaugh was at the location of his murders with his son and wifeea the family dog kennels justts before they were kill. faced with that evidence murdaugh then admitted to lying to police and then everyone else about the whereabouts at the time of his family's death. for all the intrigue surrounding this case physical evidence was thin. police never recovered either of the murder weapon, some cellphone tracking data was lost, and dna evidence at the scene did not paint a clear picture. the defense leaned on those facts during their closing arguments and asserted the police investigation was incomplete and accused the prosecution of fabricating evidence to support a case based nearly entirely on circumstance substantial evidence. the contrast the prosecution painted a picture of a reckless man who'd found himself in deep legal and financial trouble and was driven to do unthinkable things. joining us now is nbc news legal

analyst danny sovallos. were you surprised how quickly the jury returned with a verdict? >> yes and no. most juries don't take as long as people perceive them to. they generally take longer in these high profile cases, these close calls although i'm not so sure this was a close call. in the run of a mill case it's not so unusual. three hours is admittedly short. what that probably means is they got in the room, they shut the door, took a quick poll and nearly everybody must have been onboard. maybe there were one or two hold outs but they talked about it, convince them and it wasn't long before everybody was unanimous. yes, very quick verdict considering how much evidence was introduced. >> when you say how much evidence was introduced i think a lot of people and i'm not a defense attorney but were focused on this idea they didn't -- it was all circumstantial. they never had the murder

weapon, the dna evidence was confusing. was that just a defense line of argument, or did you also see this case as unusually circumstantial? >> in the closing the prosecution said to the jury circumstantial evidence is just as powerful as direct evidence, and he had to because that's what's in the jury instructions. what he wanted to say and what i think he could have said is that circumstantial evidence is often more powerful than direct evidence. direct evidence is eyewitness testimony. it's inherently unreliable. circumstantial evidence is about people lie but things do not lie. and the things in this case did not lie, the on-star data, the snap chat video, all the steps murdaugh was taking around his campus there at his estate, those things could not lie. and when confronted with those murdaugh took the stand supposedly to explain them away but his explanation was i lied.

>> yeah. >> you lose credibility with the jury and the reality is you're probably lost, and maybe he lost credibility early on. maybe he sealed the deal when he took the stand, looked the jury in the eye and said i'm a liar. so where could you go from here? >> what awaits him in terms of future -- there were these financial crimes we mentioned in the script opening up the segment. when does he go on trial for those, and what are the implications in terms of sentencing? >> he admitted them or most of them or at least some of them he admitted on the stand. so i imagine whoever is prosecuting those cases breathed a sigh of relief and thought this case got a lot easier. i think it's very telling to the crimes he admitted to on the stand, what if he goes to trial on those even after admitting them? i think it'll tell us a lot about murdaugh we didn't learn during this trial, somebody we know committed a crime that he admitted to it, why would he go to trial? so if he doesn't plead guilty

and decides to take a jury on those crimes i think that will be very telling and we'll learn even more about who this person was because i don't think we learned a whole lot when he took the stand and wove whatever web he tried to weave there. >> i will say to the point of the evidence we did have, technology played such a role here. i mean snap chat, right, and the phone tracking on the steps, like this is just -- it is in many cases a murder case 3.0. >> it is i think juries like to play detective, which is why i think circumstantial evidence is so powerful because juries can draw their own inferences and get in that room and figure, wow we figured it out, it's a mystery. and what we saw here was a defendant who thought he was clever, maybe 30% clever but had no idea there was 70% of all this data he never imagined. he probably knows nothing about snap chat, nothing about on star, nothing how our phone

tracks us. a lot of us learn about it during this trial. so he was clever but not clever enough and i think the jury sow that. >> they sure did. thank you for joining us, really appreciate the analysis. we have one more story for you tonight, a congressional committee takes a major step to possibly holding new york republican congressman george santos accountable for, well, a lot of things. that's next. things. that's next.

if for some way when we go through ethics he has broken the law, then we will remove him, but it's not my rule. >> that was house speaker kevin mccarthy a little over a month ago punting on the issue of serial liar congressman george santos of new york, punting on him and send him over to the house ethics committee and today the ethics committee says it has established a bipartisan investigative subcommittee that will investigate george santos. the four-member subcommittee says it will determine whether representative george santos may have engaged in unlawful activity with respect to his 2022 congressional campaign, failed to properly disclose information on statements filed the house, violated federal conflict of interest laws in connection with his role in a firm providing fiduciary services and/or engaged in sexual misconduct towards an individual seeking employment in his office. it's quite a bit to get through. santos' office has acknowledged the investigation and tweeted

the congressman is fully cooperating. for those of you keeping score at home this is now a congressional probe that santos faces in addition to local investigations from district attorneys in two new york counties, the new york state attorney's general office, the justice department, law enforcement in brazil, and again now the ethics committee in a house where he is part of the majority. that is probably not the list of accomplishments santos' constituents were betting on from their freshman representatives, but it is nonetheless an impressive feat for someone who's only been in congress for two months. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. we don't teach reading or writing or arithmetic anymore. you know, half the kids in this country when they graduate, think about this, half the kids in this country when they graduate can't read their diploma. >> that's just a small sampl