presents "the recall reframed" a criminal justice documentary it's debuting on msnbc it was made independently, but afterwards, professor melissa murray and i will cohost a conversation with the filmmakers and legal ecperts. sunday, 10:00 p.m. eastern if you're interesting this does wrap up the week i want to remind you, if you want to connect with me beyond the tv screen, you can go to arimelber.com. you can connect with me, find my writing, subscribe to my free newsletter if you want i a new piece up there writing about the big interview this week if you're busy or not an internet person, that's fine just keep meeting up with us here at 6:00 p.m. whenever you have time on msnbc okay, have a great weekend "the reidout" with joy reid starts now tonight on "the reidout" -- >> you come saying i made my

mistakes but now i want to change my life if i hear you correctly, it sounds like you're crying out for a new normal, for getting back to normal and i'm hoping that the things you have said today will help us begin to get back there. >> the late great chairman, elijah cummings in 2019, speaking to and about michael cohen. the ex-trump lawyer who testified this week before the grand jury investigating trump's hush money payment to a porn actress. cohen's attorney, lanny davis, joins me in a few moments for his first tv interview in the case also tonight, a major development in the criminal investigation of trump's mishandling of classified documents. there's a judge who ordered trump lawyer evan corcoran to testify. plus, ron desantis allegedly

chooses his fingers as the spoon of choice for his chocolate pudding. it's just one of the weird, strange tales of the would-be presidential candidate who apparently likes political stunts and performative hate politics but people, not so much. we begin "the reidout" tonight with the man who assisted individual one with the hush money payment to an adult film star in the waning days of the 2016 presidential campaign >> when it was ultimately determined this was days before the election that mr. trump was going to pay the $130,000 in the office with me was allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer of the trump organization he acknowledged to allen that he was going to pay the $130,000 and that allen and i should go back to his office and figure out how to do it >> trump's longtime person

attorney and fixer michael cohen testifying before the house oversight committee in 2019, about his role in orchestrating the scheme that ultimately sent him to prison. well now it could be donald trump's turn to face the music as it appears that trump will be indicted by manhattan d.a. alvin bragg who has been investigating the case if that happens, cohen likely will be the key witness for the prosecutor and you can expect trump and his allies will escalate their attacks on cohen and it will get personal and ugly we have heard from many legal analysts as well as members of team trump who call cohen a flawed witness and relying on him as the linchpin of the case could prove problem at frequent the prosecutor if it happens if many believe it will, as soon as next week. joining me now for his first interview since michael cohen completed his grand jury testimony is cohen's attorney, lanny davis. >> nice to see you in person >> a new thing we're kind of in normalish world again. let's go through this.

the attacks on your client have been pretty vicious for now. i'm assuming they'll get worse donald trump called him a rat multiple times his lawyer, joe tacopina, attacked him and said he's a fraud, he's a liar, he's a convicted perjurer in trump world and outside of trump world. that's the preview of what we're going to see, but when people say he would have a credibility problem in front of a jury, he would be a liability to the prosecution, they're talking about him pleading guilty to crimes i want to go through what the crimes are it begs the question, what did he plead guilty to he pleaded guilty to tax evasion, making false statements to a federally insured bank causing an unlawful corporate contribution, making an excessive campaign contribution and making false statements to congress let's talk about the tax evasion case he pleaded guilty to it so he did it >> he pled guilty when he was coerced on a friday afternoon. his lawyer told him that on

monday he would be indicted with his wife on this completely concocted and baseless tax claim. as well as all the other counts. and he wouldn't have an opportunity to meet with the prosecutor so they gave him from a friday afternoon to monday to decide whether to plead guilty. so the guilty plea on that issue was coerced. and i can prove to you that there was no even slight evidence of a tax fraud. >> what the proof of that? >> let's start with the fact that h & r block is an expert on tax. 1 out of 150 million people in the last year that this was done by h & r block are criminally prosecuted most people in the millions of dollars are not paying taxes are treated in civil there was literally nothing that the prosecution presented as evidence of tax criminal fraud if in $1.3 million is the amount of money, tens of millions of dollars have been settled civilly is all that was alleged against michael.

that was over five years and created five accounts. so there was something about the prosecution case that was so concocted that had he gotten his day in court, it probably would have been dismissed before he had a trial. >> let's go on to this question of the helock. he took it this is him using it for those who don't know, it's using the equity in your own home, borrow from yourself, and he used that money to pay stormy daniels this $130,000 >> this is why the cook case of the southern district, we were told by geoffrey berman, the u.s. attorney, that he got a phone call from trump's attorney general interfering in the cohen case so there's something wrong here. when you take your own money, you draw down $130,000 at donald trump's instruction, which is what the southern district published in the filing. he instructed michael to pay that $130,000 to avoid the stormy daniels affair coming out, alleged affair. right before the election, for political reasons.

that's what the federal prosecutor said. now, they're saying $130,000 with $8 million of equity in his apartment. that's his money and he drew down $130,000 because trump didn't want to be involved or have any connection. >> he wanted a separation. >> how is it possible that $130,000 with $8 million of equity behind it could possibly be a crime >> they're claiming that the lie to the bank is about the valuation, about how much equity he really had. >> actually, they're not claiming that. they're claiming he had written down a somewhat mistaken assessment of assets in another venue. but banks don't care about what you write down on a bank statement. if you have equity and if you don't pay back your own money, they don't care either, but they have equity. it's completely absurd, and it would be dismissed had it ever gone to trial. as i said, they said to him on a friday afternoon, his lawyer refused to meet with him, we're going to charge you with an

80-page indictment on monday morning and we're going to indict your wife this has never been given full airing, and part of what i like to say about his credibility and let's remember, michael cohen on july 2nd, 2018, decided to tell the truth. since that day, he's been under oath before a congressional committee, before the intelligence committees, before prosecutors, he went into a grand jury just recently under oath has never once, not once, has anyone said there's a fact untrue about all of that testimony. and he's been so vindicated the attorney general of new york depended on his testimony to bring a civil case of fraud against donald trump so everything that you quoted mr. tacopina, who i know from other venues, he uses adjectives and attack words i know lawyers when they use attack words and they don't use facts, it means they don't have facts. now not a single fact has undermined anything that michael cohen has said under oath in contrast to mr. trump, who

refuses to show up when he is under oath, he takes the fifth amendment. >> there's another one people don't think about enough this is the false statements to the u.s. congress. now, those were not about stormy daniels. those were actually about trump tower or -- explain that >> facts get in the way of rhetoric a false statement to congress is a serious crime. number one, he was directed to make those false statements by donald trump >> what were they about? >> this is the abserbty of the assertion it was a crime he was having conversations and negotiations about building trump tower in moscow. trump said to him, i don't want you to say that during the campaign i want you to lie and say there are no discussions even while there were discussions. so michael said there were three discussions rather than ten. now, let me repeat that. that's the false statement called a crime that will undermine his credibility with the jury trump tells him to lie, and he had three, which is what he

said, rather than ten, which is what happened. that's the crime and it's done at the instruction and for the benefit of not michael cohen, donald trump. every juror who is going to be sitting in the jury box is going to ask the question, did donald trump pay the money to hush up stormy daniels because right before the election he was worried about the effect on the election if that came out? that's the only question a jury is going to be deciding. by the way, as much as i say michael cohen can be trusted and credible based on the record i laid out for you, michael cohen isn't needed in this case. all these pundits and pontificators and lawyers who are speaking on tv, especially on another rival network, have no clue what the evidence is in this case. i'm in the room. i know what the evidence is. they don't so they're speculating, and they have no idea that this case is surrounded by documents, evidence, and facts. i think this case is extremely strong i hear people say it's a weak

case it's because they have no clue, no facts they're just speculating >> you mentioned mr. berman. and you did mention that he has this chapter in his book where he talks about getting a call from william barr, who we do know was acting as a fixer for donald trump and as attorney general at the same time but what you said sound like you're alleging some intimidation tactics against mr. berman and maybe against mr. cohen as well. >> no question that mr. berman wrote that in the book he waited a little long to talk about what was basically criminal obstruction of justice, even if the attorney general does it when he calls a u.s. attorney and tries to interfere in a case, and something was amiss in the prosecutors not allowing michael cohen to not come in and talk, even on the friday before the monday they threatened to indict him i know as a lawyer we called after and said can we come in and present you with new evidence on mr. trump? and the criminal lawyer that i was working with said the first time in his career, the southern district prosecutors said no, we

don't want your information, and they dropped everything, and the only person prosecuted who went to jail in the whole trump organization was michael cohen geoffrey berman gave us the answer there was pressure from washington, and that call from the attorney general, there were other involvements from washington that interfered in the administration of justice. i would love to see the inspector general of the justice department investigate what happened in that time period when trump was interfering and targeting michael cohen. >> and he was then -- he was released from jail due to covid and then was put back in or at least there was a threat to reincarcerate him. >> great that i can get into this this is now a federal judge who was told by the justice department, by the same prosecutors that coerced him into these guilty pleas, file papers and said we're sending him back to prison because he refused to sign a paper. it had nothing to do with the fact he was writing a book about trump. that the judge heard the

evidence and the judge said, what was told to me by the federal government prosecutors was not true and that's a nice way of saying lying. he was sent back to prison out of vengeance to force him to sign a paper that he wouldn't write a book and the judge ordered him out of prison people in the southern district of new york and the bureau of prisons had to have been embarrassed and mr. berman tells us why that happened it had to come from somebody in washington >> it sounds like the sort of case you're making is there is an attempt to dirty michael cohen up or the things he did, he did for trump and they're trying now to use that as the thing that undermines his credibility the fact is, they're going to still continue to do this. but there's also preparations being made for security around donald trump potentially being tried in new york. are you concerned, is your client concerned about his security >> he's absolutely concerned, since the moment he decided on july 2nd, 2018, he has been -- his family has been through a

lot of pain. he worries about his own personal security and his family's security. if and when there's an indictment, he'll have even more pressure on him. can i just return to the topic as i watch these pundits on these cable stations who don't have a clue what the evidence is and they talk about michael cohen's credibility problems but not a single fact is contradicted all this sworn testimony, he's never taken the fifth. the most important moment in the hearing before elijah cummings, and i was so moved to watch him again, was when i think it was jim jordan, the symbol of truth in the republican party, who is accusing michael cohen of being a liar, and over and over again, apologizing for trump. at one point, and we knew it was coming, i kind of tapped michael on the back sitting behind him he saw me sitting behind him and that was the moment. and michael said the following i would love to leave this message with your viewers as they listen to these people who know nothing talk about his

credibility. michael said to jim jordan, i know what you're doing, congressman. i know what you're doing, apologizing for trump and attacking me as being a liar i know what you're doing because you know why i did it for trump for ten years, and that's what trump, that's his playbook. now the playbook is aimed at michael cohen, and guess what, facts matter it won't matter in the courtroom other than the facts the jury hears. >> lanny davis, thank you very much appreciate you taking time to talk to us >> great to see you in person. of course, michael cohen will be joining my colleague chris hayes on "all in" right after "the reidout," so we'll continue to talk about this obviously. lots to talk about here. thank you again. all right, good old maga still trying to make attorneys get attorneys, as a federal judge ordered trump attorney evan corcoran to testify we'll bring you the latest after this showed that centrum silvr supports cognitive health in older adults.

it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say... ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, getrefunds.com can see if it may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee, even if it received ppp, and all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then we'll work with you to fill out your forms and submit the application; that easy. and if your business doesn't get paid, we don't get paid. getrefunds.com has helped businesses like yours claim over $2 billion but it's only available for a limited time. go to getrefunds.com, powered by innovation refunds. i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! and i'm about to steal this game from you just like i stole kelly carter in high school. you got no game dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. game over. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem,

yeah, like me. thanks, bro. take a lap, rookie. real mature. for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are positive for acetylcholine receptor antibodies, it may feel like the world is moving without you. but the picture is changing, with vyvgart. in a clinical trial, participants achieved improved daily abilities with vyvgart added to their current treatment. and vyvgart helped clinical trial participants achieve reduced muscle weakness. vyvgart may increase the risk of infection. in a clinical study, the most common infections were urinary tract and respiratory tract infections. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or if you have symptoms of an infection. vyvgart can cause allergic reactions. the most common side effects include respiratory tract infection, headache, and urinary tract infection. picture your life in motion with vyvgart. a treatment designed using a fragment of an antibody.

ask your neurologist if vyvgart could be right for you. good news! a new clinical study showed that centrum silver supports cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say... ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver.

the ides of march are coming for the former president earlier today, chief judge barrel howell of the u.s. district court in d.c. partially granted a request from u.s. prosecutors to force trump lawyer evan corcoran to testify before a grand jury. corcoran's testimony is related to the former president's possession of classified documents after leaving office the request was made when prosecutors sought a crime friday exception to his testimony. a lawyer can be forced to divulge private conversations

with a client if the client is seeking advice in furtherance of a crime. this is an unusual move but it suggests that jack smit's prosecutors provided significant evidence that trump did in fact do that. corcoran, who has already appeared before the grand jury, had previously testified to federal officials that trump had returned all classified materials after they searched mar-a-lago looking for documents they had sought to recover for more than a year a claim that was proven to be false. "the washington post" is reporting that trump's legal team, the ones who have yet to allegedly commit a crime on his behest, are expected to ask incoming chief u.s. district judge james bozberg, who succeeds the term limited howell as of midnight to stay the order while they appeal. joining me now is jill wine banks, who served as an assistant watergate special prosecutor she's the cohost of the sisters in law podcast and jill, i want to ask you, great to see you, i want to ask you to comment on that, the fact

this lawyer, mr. corcoran, they have seemed to breach the attorney/client privilege to get him to testify what do you think the significance of that is when it comes to the jack smith investigation? >> it's important. first of all, there are a couple of things that he could be a witness to one is a phone call that he had with trump, and the other is instructions he gave to christina bobb to sign an affidavit that said there had been a diligent search and that all of the documents had been turned over. and she actually cleverly added some language to that, saying based on information that i have been given, because she didn't do the search, corcoran did the search so he could be responsible for a deliberate falsification of information, and that could get him into criminal trouble himself. not just in helping his client and he would be the second lawyer on the trump team who has had this happen.

eastman had the same thing, where the judge concluded that he and trump had probably more likely than not committed a crime together that's one of the only ways that you can force a lawyer to give up the confidential information provided it is something that every lawyer knows and that every client should know so there's no big deal and donald trump's defense claiming that this is a terrible thing is just nonsense. >> i want to actually play -- you know, let me play you this one. trump is facing all of these sort of multiple potential cases that are all kind of building and brewing at the same time, but the one that appears ready to sort of bloom first is this new york case about the payment to stormy daniels. and i want to play this. this is from june 25, 1973 you'll remember this clip. this is john dean testifying before congress about what he told then-president richard nixon. >> i told him that i thought he

should know that i was also involved in the post-june 17th activities regarding watergate i briefly described to him why i thought i had a legal problem. and that i have been a conduit for many of the decisions that were made and therefore could be involved in obstruction of justice. he would not accept my analysis and did not want me to get into it in detail other than what i just related he reassured me not to worry, that i have no legal problems. >> and he later went on, john dean, to plead guilty for aspiring to obstruct justice in the cover-up and served a sentence, went to prison he got one to four years, yet he would have been the chief witness had richard nixon been prosecuted so what do you make of this attempt to say that michael cohen, who caught a jail sentence for helping donald trump do this cover-up, it seems odd to say he wouldn't be a good key witness because john dean would have been the key witness?

>> that's a great question, joy. and it is absolutely true that in most white collar crimes, or mob crimes, the people who testify against the defendant are co-conspirators. it's not bank robbery where you happen to be a patron in the bank who witnesses someone pull out a gun and say give me your money. that isn't what kind of witnesses you have you only have wintnesses who knw because they participated in the crime. no one was more credible than john dean. he made no mistakes in the facts. and frankly, no one has questioned cohen's accuracy in the things he has said they are attacking him for having been convicted of a lie, and your interview with his lawyer, lanny davis, clearly shows how they are defending him against those accusations. right now, who looks more credible to you?

john dean, cohen, or donald trump? i will tell you for sure, the loser is donald trump. >> yeah. and the third thing is, you know, and melissa murphy making attorneys get attorneys, these all all attorneys we're talking about on both sides of these accusations. another attorney, and his name is joe tacopina, who has been on the attack against michael cohen. here's a challenge for him representing donald trump. he previously talked to stormy daniels about representing her and law professor ryan goodman points out and new york state has ethics rules that would say it would be difficult to see how he could represent trump should there be a trial after he has attacked stormy daniels and sort of tried to sort of undercut her credibility but he talked about potentially representing her what do you make of all that >> well, anybody who saw his interview by ari melber knows, how can i say this nicely, that

he's a clown, that he's a joke grabbing for the evidence, i have never seen anything like that saying it's not a lie because it wasn't under oath. no, perjury is under oath. lies are lies. if i tell you a lie, it's a lie. it doesn't have to be under oath so his character and his ethics are clearly at issue here. and i think if you have represented someone on the other side, you cannot represent the other person you just can't this is, you know, it reminds me of advice i got early on in my career as a defense lawyer, which was sometimes the law's on your side, you argue the law sometimes it's the facts, you argue the facts. sometimes both are against you, you pound the table. that was it. he was pounding the table. >> real quick, what's your pin before i let you go? >> i'm wearing two because it's st. patrick's day and in chicago that's a big deal, and because

we're talking about individual number one, i'm wearing a pin that says #one >> when i tell you jill wine banks never messes with the pins, appreciate you thank you. still ahead, is ron desantis' aloof angry persona his achilles heel? his potential presidential rivals sure think so more on that when "the reidout" continues after this

(tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. - [female narrator] they line up by the thousands. each one with a story that breaks your heart. like ravette... every step, brought her pain. their only hope: mercy ships. the largest floating civilian hospital in the world.

bringing free surgeries to people who have no other hope. $19 a month will help provide urgently needed surgery for so many still suffering. so don't wait, call the number on your screen. or donate at mercyships.org. your heart is the beat of life. if you have heart failure, entrust your heart to entresto. entresto helps improve your heart's ability to pump blood to the body. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium.

ask your doctor about entresto. when that car hit my motorcycle, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto. insurance wasn't fair. so i called the barnes firm, it was the best call i could've made. call the barnes firm now, and find out what your case could be worth. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million and i d d so my y quesonons coueouout hicacase.y y son, ♪ call one eight hundred, cacalledhehe bars s filion and i d d soit was the best call coueouout hii could've made. call the barnes firm aand find out what your case all ccould be worth.uld've made. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪

as ron desantis gears up for a potential run for president, he has one big glaring vulnerability that may not go over well with potential voters and it's not the book banning or shutting down drag shows or using florida taxpayer money to fly migrants to martha's vineyard the problem is he's downright awkward. we know about the white knee high boots he wore to a photo op that became an internet meme, even drawing parallels to the green m & m. now in a new report from the daily beast, two sources recall some rather unflattering stories about his social skills, particularly his propensity to

devour food during meetings. one former staffer equating it to a starving animal who has never eaten before the article reads, during a private plane trip from tallahassee to washington, d.c., desantis enjoyed a chocolate pudding dessert by eating it with three of his fingers. ew okay, now compared to the fascist blue plate special he and his republican legislature are serving up in florida, it may not seem like much, but it could be the perfect bait for donald trump in a presidential primary. and joining me now is rick wilson, republican strategist and cofounder of the lincoln project. and don callaway, democratic strategist and founder of the national voter protection action fund i don't even know who to go to first. my mind is saying so many things to me about where to go, but you have the disadvantage of not being at the table, so rick, i'm going to throw this to you because you live in florida. >> let me tell you, there's a real rule about campaigns and it's the candidate with the most

curis tends to win whether you like it ornot, donald trump had more charisma than hillary whether you like it or not, joe biden had more charisma than donald trump in a weird sort of funky way. if you're the guy who gets the reputation early in the campaign for being a difficult diva and for eating pudding with three fingers, i can't even tell you, like, the memes write themselves for this guy it's going to get -- it's never going to get better. he's in a position now where people think he's already awkward and weird and it will just get worse and worse he'll get the yips from it and it will just cascade on itself there's no natural base to this guy, there's no like charm you are going to sit this guy down in a diner with some local committee man and this guy wants to talk about the gold standard for an hour and ron desantis is going to want to flee. >> or put up three fingers and say send me some pudding that's so gross, though.

that's just nasty. let me ask you, don. here's the challenge of going against trump. he has one skill, making up nicknames. i mean, you cannot look at marco rubio and not think lil' marco you can dislike trump, think he's a fascist and you would be right, but he's good at that i mean, ron desantis is short. he wears like high platform shoes to make himself look taller, and they have been photographed he did have the boots moment and now he's got the pudding moment it's like, donald trump is two ticks away from either making his nickname pudding or boots. >> both of which would be wildly entertaining and acceptable to me when i look at, first of all, just watch him walk around and then you see the dining stories. i'm sure you grew up with this and i know it well no home training ain't no home training it's clearly not there and that will not appeal when you have to go through the grind of iowa and new hampshire and really foclksy

people but i worry about getting caught up in this stuff because the easy thieng pivot to is find somebody who has all of the soels graces but whose policies are more aggressive and oppressive to black folks and i'm looking at you, glenn youngkin this is where the former governor of south carolina has an opportunity to split the gap here, but she's even worse and she's going to tell us all she took down the confederate flag, but the policies are going to be there and she's going to eat with the proper knife and fork ron desantis is a clown by all means, but i really like to focus more on why he's actually bad. >> and the thing about it is, rick, that he's done -- you both can jump in on this. there are certain things he's done that are just politically stupid the policy, you just had the state senate in florida have to fix -- i'm going to come to you first on this and then i'm going to come back to you, rick. they literally almost got into a war with the divine nine because they decided to create a policy

so ugly and so insane that it would have barred black fraternities and sororities from state funded colleges, including florida a&m. >> that's the goal, that's the goal, and ron desantis is the only governor who has the atrocious cajones if you will to put it out there but that is by all means the actual goal is to eradicate a people's history, and so you no longer have to justify slavery or justify white people did these things or say it's not over you just don't have to prove it exists at all. and within 25 years, folks will no longer ask because, by the way, my kids are in the green room getting their information from tiktok. that's what makes this stuff especially pernicious. >> the other thing, nikki haley's name was called. you can talk about any of these k candidates, but all of their presentations are dystopian. they're all saying america is in the toilet they're all taking up donald trump's sort of view of sort of

downing the country and saying that it's awful, and they only are doing social issues and culture wars none of them have offered a vision that's beyond that. i don't know how any of them would appeal in a general election >> you know, joy, that's exactly right. these people are -- this is the secret of maga it's dark and paranoid and depressing and pessimistic and weak philosophy. because they may beat their chests and do the whole monster truck thing, but the reality is they think we're weak. they think our country is bad. they think the things that make this big crazy country work and go forward are wrong they want to turn the clock back to this imaginary past that never existed in any reality at all. they want to enter some alternate universe, and it will never work the average person out there, they're not worried about wokism or whatever the hell it means. they can't define it, of course. they're not worried about that they're worried about the

economy, their kids' education, their jobs they're worried about things that matter to their families. when they see things that threaten their families and hurt their families, bought like it or not, ron desantis, there are a lot of gay people in the country, there are a lot of african american people in the country. you just banning books, banning books about rosa parks and hank aaron in florida schools because you don't like them, or taking out the fact that rosa parks was african american in a school textbook, that's insanity. people will see that so the darkness and the weirdness all together is going to make him, i think, very offputting until of course donald trump tears his liver out and eats it live on stage. >> i worry, though, rick, and i appreciate that optimistic perspective. that hasn't worked out for black folks too well over the last 15 years in american politics there are a whole lot of folks who agree with ron desantis. that's why his perspective is particularly dangerous there are a lot of people who don't understand when he talks

about woke, he's talking about eradicating gay people, african american rights, women's rights. that's what woke means we didn't acknowledge the threat when trump came down the escalator in 2015 until it was too late ron desantis is crafting a campaign in that mold. >> when ledbelly said it in 1938 and black folks were saying it since i was a kid, it just means watch your back. when they say it, woke means black. let's be clear and it means gay, and it means when you're anti that, you have told us who you are. >> he says this is where woke goes to die. >> i'm going to leave it there they mean black again. they don't know what it means. rick wilson and don callaway thank you both up next, filmmakers erica alexander and whitney dowd join me to talk about their recent debate series based on their new documentary about reparations. and we celebrate a very special women's history month birthday we'll be rig bhtack. you get advice like...

just stop. go for a run. go for ten runs. run a marathon. instead, start small with nicorette, which will lead to something big. get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a new tool in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside and the other goals along the way wealth plan can help get you there. j.p. morgan wealth management. ♪♪ remember the things you loved doing... before your asthma got in the way? get back to the things you love... with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma. having too many eosinophils, a type of white blood cell, can cause inflammation and asthma symptoms. fasenra is designed to target and remove eosinophils

and helps prevent asthma attacks. fasenra is 1 dose every 8 weeks. fasenra can help patients to breathe better. most patients did not have an asthma attack in the first year. and fasenra helps lower the use of oral steroids. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. and get back to your life. ask your doctor about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. type 2 diabetes? if yodiscover the ozempic® your medicatri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults

also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. ask your health care provider about the ozempic® tri-zone. you may pay as little as $25.

joint pain used to keep me out of these moments. but not anymore. blue-emu put me back in the game. it's the powerful relief my joints need. blue-emu, it works fast and you won't stink.

good news! a new clinical study showed that centrum silver supports cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say... ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. we were so excited when we saw the legislation. in fact, we have used it in presentations that we have made. i use your outstanding construct. you have been a real hero to me. >> we can have layers of repair and remedy because as we know, those damages, yes, they're rooting in lavery, but it looked like discrimination even still today because the color of our dark skin.

>> the big payback is a documentary film about reparations for slavery in america. it premiered nationwide in january. i am one of the executive producers of the full film, full disclosure the film focuses on evanston, illinois, the first u.s. city to fund a plan to distribute reparations to its black residents. the filmmakers are now taking that conversation on the road to universities, hosting a series of student-led debates around reparations at every hbcu in north carolina here's a peek at the one hosted by bennett college >> this is such a hot topic for some people, it's radioactive. so who best to talk about it but in educational institutions where they're supposed to tarkal the hard subjects. >> reparations means funding it means respect it means preserving those institutions that make sure our needs were met >> what would be your take on emotional reparation and psychological reparation where would this money being coming from where a country $20 trillion in debt >> what are the next steps

>> i'm joined now by the big payback directors, actress, producer, and activist erica alexander, and filmmaker whitney dow. my friends, thank you for being here and this is fascinating. erica, i'm going to start with you. when you're in these schools talking about reparations with actual people students, young people, what are the kinds of questions that they're asking and what are they debating >> they're debating reparations and they're debating its effect or maybe its effect on them, their lives, their schools they go to. we kicked it off at bennett, an all women's college. they were in it to win it, and they helped ideate and create the tour and create the whole foundation of it so we were trying to replicate the baldwin buckley debate in 1965, the great james baldwin massacred william f. buckley in that debate at cambridge university in england. they asked what is the

americans' effect on american negroes. at this point, we're allowing them to choose the question, but they often ask how it's going to affect them and their families or their schools >> and whitney, there is this like sort of reticence about the topic of reparations it's been difficult to even get congress to deal with it because there's a visceral negative reaction to it what have you heard that has sort of shown that when the students are talking about it, and do you hear those kind of reticences >> absolutely. it's really interesting. we did a debate, great to see don callaway wearing a shaw university sweatshirt, and the students debated both sides of it two students who debated against reparations. you know, against the idea of reparations because there's a lot of concern that it somehow with certain students that it will somehow make them -- it sort of makes them feel badly

that they don't have the same agency in the world. they're very sort of really focused on self determination and not this idea of what they consider might be a handout is something that makes them nervous to think about >> you know, it's interesting that you're doing this in colleges at a time when colleges have become a real political hotbed of attempts to strip not just k-12 education of history, including specifically black history, but in florida, they're going for the colleges too they're trying to attack it there as well. can you even imagine being able to do this debate in a place like florida and did you feel that kind of pushback in north carolina >> well, i just was listening to y'all talk about the atrocities, wouldn't let them do what the are doing now with just having a pea history on america history they probably wouldn't do this we are here in north

carolina specifically with the north carolina ten hbcus, eigh of them will be doing this because we thought it needed t be in a place where they would be not open to it, not afrai of it, but also had skin in th game that's why we are her it's hard to have thes discussions, but it shouldn' be it should be a place, especially in universities that you can talk about th hard things there's no doubt but also be safe and be free t have conflicting points of vie and then come out of it and be friends and move forward >> an with me, we are seeing, th film came out and talked about this evanston discreet case of trying to make reparations wor there we are now seeing this conversation in other cities san francisco has apart program that they are toying with the idea of doing, pretty major reparations, sort of program with 5 million dolla payout, is what the reportin is what do you make of the way th debate has metastasized from the time that you all were

making this film >> what's so great about the film, and you know this from being involved in it, that robin show that the impossible was possible it was almost like the dam broke, and as soon as she sa the community could look at it past honestly, look at the injury it causes black residents, plan restitution, and come out stronger on the back end, so many communitie say this is a model that we ca apply, especially evanston, an there's not an obvious relatio to slavery every community has a relation to the legacy of slavery, an the shows how each community looked at their own situatio and figure out how to make amends for their particula situation. >> and of course the star of the film, she is the person wh did this on emerson. what is your reaction to these debates, erica >> she loves it. she has created this thing called first repaired ou oregon she's getting a lot of peopl asking her how she did it. local communities all over are

trying to do it and they nee this information so she is trying to do her due diligence by putting out information about best practices we get a big kick out of i because for a lot of people wh are in this work, it can be so draining and this is fun. we've got a -- ice cream, one of the fe companies who came out i support of a lot of social justice issues, especially reparations in h.r.40 talkin about not only reparations for social justice issues with young students who have thei future in front of them. she loves it they love her. it's a chance to have a lot of love between present and the future >> where does it go next whitney? where are you guys going next? >> on monday we're going to be at, what is it, johnson an smith, and tuesday at st augustine, and ap amt and then

we're going to william smith college. and if you go to our website the big payback movie.com, there's a big list, they'r open to the community. so what's great about it is no just students, community members have come out an participated in this as well >> hopefully people llwi com out. eric alexander, whitney tao, thank you. we'll be right back. dupixent is an add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that's not for sudden breathing problems. dupixent can cause allergic reactions that can be severe. get help right away if you have rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor about new or worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. ask your specialist about dupixent. hi, i'm tony hawk, and like many of you, inci take a statin, without tto reduce cholesterol, but statins can also deplete coq10 levels. that's why my doctor recommended qunol coq10.

qunol has the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. qunol. the brand i trust.

i've never been healthier. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older.

shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. as a business owner, your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to 60% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. >> on this day in 1933, civi comcast business. powering possibilities.

rights icon marley evers williams was born. that makes her 90 years youn today. a long rich life, dedicated to racial equality but also one haunted by tragedy white supremacist assassinated her husband mississippi's fo statewide naacp field secretary, medgar evers, in front of thei home in jackson, in 1963 she had three young children witnessed the bloody aftermath the murder would serve as catalyst for the path of the 1964 civil rights act. with nearly fighting decades longer to see her husband' killer convicted of murder after two previous all white male hung juries black woman played essential role in leading the civi rights movement, something w want to especially highlight this women's history month marley evers was one of thos crucial figures, embodied by far more than the southern terrorism that took he husband. she blazed a path toward justice and voting right through the civil rights era a

a civil rights worker in her own right. later serving as the chair o the naacp and then com becoming the first woman and first lady person to give th invocation at a presidential inauguration for america's first black president. , president barack obama i 2013 her incredible legacy was recently honored in collection of photos and video created by pomona college, her alma mater >> the pain and the scars that come from being my color and living in a segregated society is something you don't forget. we're human beings we are no different. and hopefully someone who view us will grow to be another strong leader in our country >> happy 90th birthday to my personal