the u.s. is ranked number 15. what are the unhappiest countries? lebanon and afghanistan. i suppose you could think of countries that could be unhappier, but it makes complete sense why you are, if you're in the middle of massive civil conflict and total government disruptions. very hard to live a happy life. what's interesting about the survey, and it's been done now for decades, is that there are some findings that you can apply beyond country to country. ukraine has every reason to be mis miserable, but they have rel relatively high ratings for trust in their leader, benevolence, health, reduced inequality among people. happy people help other people to be happy. >> that makes sense as they rally around a common cause. margaret talev, thank you. >> have a happy day. >> you, too. thanks for getting up "way too

early" on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. i don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged affair, i can't speak to that. >> right. ouch. left hook. >> yeah. >> you know, also, i can't answer any questions about "playboy" stars. i can't answer those questions. oh, and i know nothing about having businesses that go bankrupt after you inherit $400 million from your father. i can't speak to blowing that money that quickly. >> can't speak to being creepy. >> come on now. come on. boy, that was quite the defense, wasn't it, willie? >> it was. it actually was the first time really with any strength we've seen governor desantis speak out. i guess that was indirect. >> and amid some other things.

>> it quickly spun to an attack on the investigation, an attack on the manhattan district attorney, as a soros-backed leftist, everything you expect, but he dipped his toe in the trump criticism. >> i saw it. >> let's hear that again, t.j., if we could. i didn't write all of that down. >> you want to get it right? all right. >> for details. >> i'll pipe this in. hold on. >> roll it. >> i don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged affair. i can't speak to that. >> that was very specific. >> it was very specific. i don't know what it's like being a new york developer who has gone bankrupt dozens of times and -- >> all right, okay. >> and to pay off -- and notice, he said to pay off porn star to cover up. >> very specific. >> i mean, it was -- >> very specific.

>> we'll leave that there and say ron desantis finally had something to say about the potential indictment of donald trump. we're going to have more of the back-handed defense from the florida governor who could be in a pickle, depending on how this goes, if this goes. >> a pickle. could he be in a pickle, mika? are we in the 1950s? if we are, is he -- >> i am. >> -- a pickle? >> yes, i am. >> okay. >> i have jay johnson here, who agrees with that. >> okay. meanwhile, a trump ally could be the last witness the manhattan grand jury hears from before voting on indictment for the former president. we'll show you what he had to say outside the courthouse and break down what's next in the case. it comes as more trump supporters are likely headed to prison for the violence on january 6th. we'll go through the latest convictions for members of the oath keepers, keeping in mind trump's post on truth social about this potential indictment which has some parallels.

good morning and welcome -- >> so -- >> hmm. >> good morning, mika. why, thank you. that's very nice of you. >> yes. >> good morning. >> morning. >> you know, it's tuesday, march 21st, and you are, of course, watching the ron desantis variety hour. willie, it is interesting. so the arrests keep coming for january 6th. >> yup. >> trump the trying to get them to do another january 6th today or tomorrow. the justice department is going to have to get a bigger boat or at least hire more attorneys if they do it. because, again, i think we're all supposed to be panicked and freaked out by the stupid things republicans do. it ends up losing them elections. if people go out and do this in the streets, just going to get arrested, thrown in jail and stay there for as long as -- if they want to follow donald trump and break the law, you know, they do that, they just end up in jail like all these other people. >> well, there is a link between the two stories we just read, which is the reason, perhaps, or

at least some of the reason you're seeing prominent conservatives, prominent trump supporters on their podcasts and in interviews saying, "stay away from new york. don't go to the protests. you don't want to be part of this." yesterday, yes, four more oath keepers were sentenced to prison for obstructing an official proceeding on january 6th. the people who did the worst on january 6th are, in fact, going to jail. they are, in fact, being held accountable. the justice department has taken a couple of years to get there, but they've shown that justice does find its way. that's probably why you've seen even some prominent republicans like kevin mccarthy saying, "no, i don't think i'd go down there and protest." the protests we've seen so far, so far anyway, attendance has been light, let's just say, here in new york. >> yeah. >> well, i mean, let's hope for their sake and, of course, for police officers' sake, that there's not a huge disturbance. it just ends up being bad for them. they end up going to jail. elton john had a line off of his

album, captain fantastic and the brown dirt cowboy, that said -- see, i'm doing the ari melber thing but doing it with the 1970s. jesus don't save the guys in the tower of babel. donald trump doesn't save you. you'll go to jail. there is a chance donald trump himself may go to jail. everybody can scream and squawk, but here's the crazy thing. i know this is radical for some of you, but just because an election turns out the way you don't want it to turn out doesn't mean it is not an election. it is going to be recognized, and we're going to move forward, whether a democrat or republican wins. it's the same thing with the law, right? you don't like the law? too bad. you follow the law or you get arrested, you go to jail. you can't discount law breaking because it's on one side or the other. let me just say, too, the what about is on this hunter biden thing.

if you expect us to sit here and defend hunter biden, you're going to have to turn to another channel. because i'm not defending hunter biden. i'm not attacking hunter biden. let the justice department do it. i think they're investigating him, so if chips fall, the chips fall. but that what aboutism won't save you. even if hunter biden gets sent to jail, democrats will not go out trashing the judiciary, trashing the justice department, trashing the rule of law. they'll keep beating you in elections, too, because of it. before we get to business, and i know we have to get to business, i want to bring gene robinson in here. can i bring gene in here? >> pull up gene. >> wonderful op-ed yesterday in "the washington post" about her art. i know you're proud of her. she's a gifted artist.

tell us about it. >> oh, my gosh. look how beautiful. >> our editorial page editorial, david shipley and avis cooked up this project. she's making four fabric pieces to harold the four seasons this year. yesterday, on the first day of spring, on the website, and i believe this morning in the newspaper, we published the first heralding spring. i think it's a great project. i'm way biased on this, but it's been a really good reaction from others, as well. >> wonderful. >> yeah, i'm really proud of it and really happy with the way it's turning out. stay tuned. >> congratulations to avis. >> yes. >> very moving op-ed, too. mika talking about what avisd

-- for avis, what spring meant to her, the beauty of it and tough memories. if you haven't had a chance to read that in "the post," do that. >> the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. and former director of homeland security under president obama, jeh johnson. ahead of a possible criminal indictment of former president donald trump, sources tell nbc news that law enforcement is bracing for modest protests in support of the former president today around trump tower and the d.a.'s office. yesterday, a handful of supporters responded to trump's calls for mass protests over the weekend to, quote, take our nation back. those came as prosecutors are reportedly zeroing in on a charge of falsifying business records in connection with the hush money payment trump

allegedly made to porn star stormy daniels in 2016, to keep her quiet about an affair she says the two had a decade earlier. trump denies the affair and any wrongdoing. sources say tomorrow is the earliest we could see an indictment. that's when the grand jury in the case reconvenes. the jury heard from robert costello yesterday, an attorney who previously advised trumps own one-time lawyer michael cohen. cohen, prosecutors' star witness in the case, was brought in yesterday to be on standby as a possible rebuttal witness for costello's testimony. but that rebuttal was never needed, even after costello spent more than two hours trying to discredit cohen before the grand jury. after his testimony, costello, who also has represented the likes of rudy giuliani and steve bannon, told reporters he has no agenda except exposing the truth. cohen later responded in an

interview with msnbc's ari melber. >> did ruby urge you to do this? >> no. i'm the one who decided to do this. a lot of people cautioned me against it because i had nothing to gain. the only thing i'm doing is trying to tell the truth to the grand jurors because i read all these lies in the media that are being promoted by one side. >> it's a typical donald j. trump play out of the playbook. figure out how you can muddy the water as best as you possibly can, denigrate the person, disparage them. the district attorney has the documentation in order to validate every single statement that i've made. and to basically dispel anything that costello has to say, which is probably, again, why they didn't need me for rebuttal. meanwhile, donald trump continues to lash out at manhattan district attorney

alvin bragg in posts on his social media platform. a campaign-style attack ad repeats his complaints against bragg. >> i'm the only thing standing between the american dream and total anarchy, madness and chaos, and that's what it is. i'm representing you. i'm just here. always remember, they are coming after me because i am fighting for you. that's what's happening. >> ominous music and everything. in another post yesterday, the former president accused bragg of breaking the law, writing that the d.a. should be held accountable for, quote, interference in a presidential election. secretary johnson, we can come back to that in a minute. i want to go back to the security question, something you'd be familiar with as head of homeland security. what do you suspect is going n behind the scenes at the new york police department, homeland security, secret service, everybody else? >> first, it would appear from everything we see and hear that

if there is to be a court appearance by mr. trump, it'll probably be later this week at the earlier, possibly next week. the grand jury is apparently still hearing testimony. they heard from a witness yesterday. my recollection of grand jury practices, once all the evidence is in, the prosecutor gives the grand jurors some sort of instruction on the law. they then have to vote on the indictment. the indictment has to be handed down. behind the scenes now, i'm quite sure, is a five-way negotiation between donald trump's lawyers, his secret service detail, the d.a.'s office, the court officers who are responsible for the security of 100 center street, and the nypd. the nypd, i suspect, is sort of leading the discussions about where the appearance will occur, when it will occur, will there be photographers, will there be press, so forth and so on.

that is a five-way negotiation. i have a lot of confidence in the nypd. the nypd, the court officers, are used to high-profile court appearances at 100 center street. none like this, however. this will be unprecedented, clearly. but the nypd knows how to read social media, gather intelligence, anticipate crowd size, anticipate what level of security will be appropriate around 100 center street, assuming that's where this actually takes place. >> they're already setting up. >> yeah, it seems on january 6th, the washington police department, the city of washington, capitol hill police, they were all caught off guard. i think most of us that have spent some time in new york city can attest to the fact that you don't sneak up on the nypd. they got this, right? if you come to new york city, we're going to have the guns right across the bridge, and

then we're going to get the guns and bring them over to -- don't do that. that's just going to be real, real bad for you. leave the guns in arlington to come to the capitol. it's just not -- you're in new york and dealing with nypd. lots of luck there, fella. jonathan lemire, so i'm shocked. i'm shocked. there's gambling. there's gambling in the back. i'm shocked. donald trump actually lied about being arrested on tuesday. i'm not really good with this time thing. mika will tell you, we're walking down the street and i'll go, "what season is this?" she'll go, "it's spring, joe." i'll go, "what year?" that's where i am as far as self-awareness about dates, times, hemispheres that i'm in. but in this case, let's see,

it's tuesday. he's not getting arrested. he lied again just to stir up the water. this is just what he does. >> yeah, i will say, i sure wish it were friday. but it is only tuesday, and so far, donald trump has not been arrested. in fact, his team had to acknowledge that there's been no communication from the manhattan d.a.'s office. they acknowledge, privately to reporters, they have no idea where he got tuesday from. in fact, some people have gone back -- >> he lied. >> -- and looked at hits on fox, did guests suggest tuesday and he saw it? no one found that either. this appears to be a lie, an attempt to push his supporters and perhaps, more importantly, push republicans out there to start defending him. it seems like this indictment is going to come soon. tomorrow is a possible date. it's the never time the grand jury meets. there is a chance, though, as the secretary mentioned, this could slide to next week or the week after.

there is no rush here. the manhattan d.a. doesn't have to do it on any pitch clock. the former president is trying to get republicans out there to muddy the waters, to start their attacks on bragg. members of government, including speaker mccarthy, threatening to use the tools at his disposal to try to investigate bragg, to cut off his funding, and some ominous threats out there, as well, hence all the security being put in lower manhattan. there is no sense when or if this will come, but it doesn't look like it'll be today. >> we need to talk about if, as well. we don't know, right, jeh? we don't know. meanwhile, republican alies of former president trump are moving to his defense. congressman jim jordan, an outspoken trump supporter and chair of the house weaponization committee, sent the new york d.a., alvin bragg, a letter, asking him to testify about his,

quote, decision to pursue a politically motivated prosecution. >> come on. >> that's hard. >> get out of third grade. that's not even smart. >> yeah. >> it's not even -- like, duh. who are these guys? >> i don't know. >> who are these guys? it's not a pro among them. >> house republican leadership seems, at least for now, to be standing by trump. conference chair elise stefanik said yesterday -- >> no, no, no, we're not going to play anything she said. >> let me just -- >> mika, let me tell you -- >> i want to see a second. >> no, we're not going to play it. >> why. >> harvard, by the way. >> disgrace. >> another phony populist from an ivy league school. they have to do a better job screening their prospects. anyway -- >> i kind of want to see it. >> i don't want to see it. >> you have to face what's going on here. >> she says, oh, here's another

example. see tweeted, here's another example of the justice department or the d.a. or whomever leaking, leaking things that will attack donald trump. george conway just sub-tweeted and said, ah, it was donald trump who released this. like, the stupidity. >> we don't need that. >> also, willie, i think -- and we ought to hear from gene, too, on this, but, willie, i think maybe we kind of brushed over the desantis thing, too, you know, talking about him, going, well, i don't know what it is like to pay off a porn star to keep them quiet from an alleged affair. we did kind of brush past his anti-semitic swing. >> backed thing. >> he did the, oh, it's the international jewish bankers' fault. straight out of pure, anti-semitic drivel. we now see ron desantis is

quoting talking points from put putin about territorial disputes, and he is repeating old anti-semitic tropes, attacking international jewish bankers. it's like, come on, this is who you guys say is the anti-trump? >> that wasn't a one-off from ron desantis. that's the party line about this investigation. elise stefanik said the same thing, that bragg, the manhattan attorney, is a soros-backed candidate. they put that modifying every time they use his name, criticizing the investigation. jim jordan and others are using the power of the house of representatives, the united states congress, to spend their valuable time to go after alvin bragg and protect their guy, donald trump. let's talk more about this with congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany. also, of course, an msnbc contributor. good morning. so we are seeing republicans en masse rally to the defense of

donald trump here, to go after alvin bragg, and to use, as i said, the judiciary committee to get bragg to testify before them. where is this headed? >> yeah, well, i'm down here in orlando, florida, at the house gop retreat, where trump has been the center of conversation despite speaker mccarthy's desire to have it be about anything other than trump. even though he did exactly the opposite on sunday by declaring a sort of war on alvin bragg by issuing this notice, that committees should investigate bragg, and whether or not this investigation was, quote, federally funded. yesterday, at every single press conference and media briefing that was held with reporters, jim jordan, mark green, brian style, all of the heads of these committees were all asked about this impending investigation and

this directive from mccarthy. again, it was deja vu. everyone coming to trump's defense, attacking alvin bragg, using this george soros dog whistle. you know, defending their right to simply ask questions, even though this is an ongoing investigation, and issuing subpoenas and doing this sort of investigation during ongoing criminal investigation is very unprecedented. >> yeah. gene, they're not even trying to hide the international jewishan anymore. you know, one week, ron is repeating kremlin talking points about the war and territorial disputes. the next week, he is blaming donald trump paying off a porn

star for an alleged affair, $130,000 that already sent his lawyer to jail. he is blaming that on international jewish bankers. like, this is the great white hope for the republican party? as ali would say, more like the great white dope. what a joke! again, let's just call it what it is. it's anti-semitism. >> oh, it absolutely is. and it's really shocking. when you think about it, i mean, to go straight to, you know -- the code words they use are globalist, george soros, globalist, you know, banker who was jewish. it's full, flat out anti-semitism. there's no two ways about it. it's amazing that, to me at least, a bit surprising that desantis would go straight there.

sort of follow the herd in that direction rather than, you know, geez, guy, pull back a little bit. you're planning to run for president. you don't have to go out on that rotten limb this early in your campaign, but there he went. it's just stunning. you know, you mentioned earlier that what comes to mind for you is an elton john song. i think of an older song, "i fought the law, and the law won." >> yeah. >> you know, that's what happens. i mean, in the end, that's what happens. >> it's a good song. >> he committed a crime, he is, you know -- the wheels of justice are going to grind. yeah, he can be arrested if he gets indicted, and if he is guilty, he can be convicted.

that's the way the law works. >> right. >> get in front of the sherman tank, be my guest. >> they keep doing it, mika. of course, just for people at home, if you're keeping score, when gene is talking about "i fought the law, and the law won," eddie cochran version. mika, she goes, it's a good song, she's thinking of the clash version. you're a huge fan. >> i am. >> oh, please. name three clash songs. >> the politics of this, it's hard not to laugh on if you're a former republican, you might be crying at this point because of their obsession with losing. jeh johnson, there are some dangers here. from anti-semitism all the way back to the beginning of this story when it broke, trump's truth social post. can you talk about what homeland security is dealing with now? what thoughts are going through your mind as you watch this play out? >> several things. first, it's revealing to me that, while desantis is trying

to be the anti-trump, the extent to which he will go to pander to trump's base. >> right. >> with the anti-semitic quotes and things. joe, we call the desantis comment about paying hush money to porn stars a good-faith cheap shot. >> yeah. >> we now know that terrorism in this country is principally domestic based. we saw that on january 6th. we see it over and over again. in the homeland, the antidefamation league tracks homeland terrorism, how it is inspired by domestic-based forces. the other thing i have to point out about republicans in congress, you know, they all call themselves federalists, you know, states rights when it is

something states are doing they like. when states do something they don't like in congress, oh, we have to investigate this. we have to issue a subpoena to the manhattan d.a. to find out if it is being federally funded, to interfere with a state-level prosecution. i am sure that the department of homeland security now is monitoring this threat environment around what could happen in new york in a few days, as they should be. >> right. you see his post, how he worded it parallel to january 6th. >> what's amazing about the post from saturday, you know, his only defense, dangling by a thread to january 6th, inciting the riot on january 6th, is somewhere in those remarks, he used the word "peacefully." the statement on saturday didn't use that word at all. it was just, "protest. take our nation back," which is significant and revealing. before we go to break, a few

of the other headlines. french president emmanuel macron, his government, narrowly survived two no confidence votes in parliament on monday, triggered after he pushed through a deeply unpopular measure to raise the retirement age from 62 to 64. afterwards, parliament adopted the divisive pension bill which faces a review by the constitutional counsel before it can be signed into law. the french president wants to raise the legal age of retirement in an effort to put more money into the system, which the government says is set to run a deficit. a nationwide day of strikes and protests is scheduled for thursday. >> you know, gene robinson, you obviously covered britain. you were "washington post"'s bureau chief there. you understood what was going on with thatcher when she made moves such as these in the 1980s, which, again, whether you

liked thatcher or not, transformed britain, made it less of a massive declining welfare state. macron sees himself in that same position. understands they have the most generous retirement benefits, where you can retire at 62. he's a reformer. he promised, if you elect me, if we're going to survive, we've got to move up our retirement age and make it for people who actually work a couple of decades. he's facing a lot of resistance, but i don't know we're paying a lot of attention here, but it is a remarkable thing he's done. he survived a no confidence vote yesterday. >> it is a remarkable thing he's done, but he's not out of the woods yet on this. i mean, this is deeply unpopular in france. you could argue, looking at the

numbers and looking at the demographics of france, you can certainly argue that it is necessary. to us, raising the retirement age from 62 to 64 does not sound onerous. but in the context of france, this is a big, big deal. you know, he could not get this through the french parliament with a vote initially, and so he had to -- he essentially did it by decree. he used this provision where he has a no confidence vote, and he squeaked by that. now, it has to be reviewed. meanwhile, there will be people in the streets protesting this. as i said, people don't like it. so this is not quite -- it's not quite over yet. >> we haven't seen the end of this. back at home, it'll be a tough day in los angeles. more than 60,000 los angeles school district employees going on a three-day strike starting today. a union representing about 30,000 support workers is demanding a 30% pay increase.

they say their members make little more than minimum wage and are struggling to afford the cost of lving in southern california. the teachers union, representing 35,000 ememployees, also asked s members to walk out in solidarity. classes have been canceled for more than 400,000 students. >> all right.following that. new convictions stemming from the attack on the capitol. we'll go through the guilty verdicts for a third set of oath keepers taken to trial, as jurors deliberate additional charges. also ahead, live reporting from beijing after a meeting of, quote, dear friends, in moscow. we'll have the latest on china's so-called peace mission in russia, as the leaders of those two countries prepare for another round of talks today. plus, a leading voice in the administration on national security, john kirby. >> jim:s -- joins us live from the white house. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. e white hou.

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nicorette knows quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like... just stop. go for a run. go for ten runs. run a marathon. instead, start small with nicorette, which will lead to something big. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. ask your doctor about fasenra. - double check that. headache and sore throat may occur. eh, pretty good! (whistles) yeek. not cryin', are ya? let's tighten that. (fabric ripping) ooh. - wait, wh- wh- what was that?

- huh? what, that? no, don't worry about that. here we go. - asking the right question can greatly impact your future. - are, are you qualified to do this? - what? - especially when it comes to your finances. - yeehaw! - do you have a question? - are you a certified financial planner™? - yes. i'm a cfp® professional. - cfp® professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's gotta be a cfp®. find your cfp® professional at letsmakeaplan.org. joe? >> exactly. >> t.j.? >> i'm going to go to you. >> i got word of that, too, which is why i looked like a deer in headlights. >> can we go to t.j. for a second? see, oh, you don't have the t.j. cam. >> no, sorry. >> we need it for moments such as this. i said, i'm going to go to willie here. >> that's what i heard, too. >> willie comes out with a shot

of willie, and willie is, like, what did i do? >> that's not going on my reel, joe, that moment. >> no, it's not. >> we're not putting that on the reel. listen, willie, i feared i was out of my depth, right? i fought the law. eddie cochran i said. no, it wasn't. the editor of the new republic, also quite a historic. i fought the law was by the bobby fuller four. >> yeah, '66. >> not eddie cochran. now, was the bobby fuller four the band that also did the closing credits for "fantastic mr. fox"? i think they were. >> random. >> need some help from the control room on that one. >> yeah. like you're going to get it. >> you won't get any here. >> bobby fuller four. >> guys, as much as you think

people want to see you -- >> this is good tv right here, us googling. >> we're doing this for our -- "let her dance," incredible. >> let's talk about the oath keepers. >> willie, want to talk about baseball a little bit? >> let's lighten things up and talk about the oath keepers. >> sounds good. let's get back to the news. >> thank you. >> as we were, six more members of the oath keepers have been convicted for their roles in the january 6th insurrection. a federal jury found all of them guilty of entering a romanian restricted building or grounds. they were found to obstruct a proceeding. juries are still deliberating over the counts for the other two defendants. ryan has been following these cases from the beginning. good morning. tell us about the latest convictions and how they are

different from the previous ones we've seen with the oath keepers. >> that's right. so the first two oath keepers trials involved seditious conspiracy. this didn't involve that. it's been less high profile as a result. also, because of the fact there's been unfolding proud boys trial happening in the d.c. courtroom right now. you have the competing trials. the second oath keepers seditious conspiracy trial also overlapped with the proud boys case. there's been occasions i've been sitting in on the cases and have been the only reporter and only person in the room because there's just so many of these cases that were sort of churning through right now. these individuals, three of them -- rather, four of them were convicted of the top charge of obstruction of an official proceeding. that was sandra parker, lara steel, megs and william isaacs. two other individuals are still

having their charge discussed. the two individuals convicted didn't go inside the building, but they were outside. that's sort of the layup case you can get against anyone. if you wanted to charge thousands of people with that, you could charge that against them. all of them are universally guilty of it. ultimately, we might not end up with the more serious charge against those two defendants, including michael greene, who testified on behalf of stewart rhodes during the first oath keepers trial. >> jeh johnson, we touched on this earlier, but juries are returning convictions around the attack on the capitol on january 6th. rhodes was convicted of seditious conspiracy. very serious charges. >> yes. there is something to be said for investigating and possibly

prosecuting, not just those who took to the streets, not just those who broke into the capitol building, but those who incited the insurrection. january 6th was the very definition of an insurrection. in my view, it's in the national interest that in prosecuting these cases, we call it what it was. you know, we read that the special prosecutor is contemplating charges for obstruction of the official proceeding, fraud. this was an insurrection. let's call it what it was. the insurrection statute punishes not just those who participate in the insurrection but those who incite it and give aid, too. so in investigating former president trump and others around him, i think we have to call it what it is. i think it's in the national interest we call it what it is. >> that's what maybes this moment dangerous, joe. >> well, and the thing is, do

you know what you call this, what we're watching? it's a technically term. those not in television, i can understand why you've never heard what we call this. we call this video. okay? we have a lot of video. in the post truth world that donald trump inhabits and his supporters inhabit and people on cable news television that want to defend him inhabit, this video is held by millions and millions of people, especially because of social media. so if you lie about what happened on january 6th, if you try to redefine it as, you know, and try to redefine, jonathan lemire, saying, oh, the weird guy wearing the horns. i don't know who people were trying to say, oh, he was a peaceful guy and never walked through a window. boom. couple seconds later, we've got

reporters like mr. riley who will say, actually, look at this video. here he is walking through a broken window. so that's the thing. they don't understand that in this post truth world that donald trump lives by and they think they can live by, they don't understand that this is just a jim and tammy faye bakker scam. he wants them to do his dirt addy work. he goes back to ptl land, and they go to jail. at the end of the day, their lives are ruined because they broke the law. his life, it just keeps going on because, until now, donald trump is above the law. again, make no mistake of it, you know, fox news can try to redefine this any way they want to redefine this. congressmen who were helping capitol cops from having people break through doors and shoot up

the house chamber can lie about it a couple weeks later and say, "oh, they were just tourists." but we've got something called video. and it shows, still, that it was a riot, an attempted insurrection, and they keep going to jail. so for those who think they're going to screw with the nypd today, stay on the other side of the bridge. it's not going to go well, even if they come into new york city and break the law, they're going to jail. it's pretty simple. break the law, go to jail. there is no post truth world. >> going to rikers. >> yeah, rikers. by the way, one-way ticket to, somebody said it, rikers. have a good day. >> jeh johnson. >> over the long bridge there to rikers island. post 9/11, real shows of force,

they safeguard big events. they'll be just fine in insurrectionists show up either today or tomorrow. to your point, yes, there has been a consistent effort to whitewash, to downplay what happened on january 6th by so many on the right. a leading cable news network and its top hosts, as well as many figures in the republican party. lawmakers, some with positions of real prominence in the republican-controlled house of representatives. we're also seeing on the 2024 campaign trail candidates, potential republican candidates for president are ignoring january 6th, except for a few comments from mike pence. no one using it to attack donald trump, to say he is not qualified for office. of course, they are so afraid of alienating his supporters. but there is video, joe. this is the most documented crime scene in the history of the united states. that's per the fbi. there's video. there's evidence. those people are going to jail. we should note, there is an open

investigation by jack smith, the special counsel, into donald trump's role that day, too. he is not out of legal jeopardy either. >> ryan riley, justice reporter, thank you for bringing your reporting today. and former homeland security secretary jeh johnson, thank you, as well. >> thank you, secretary. coming up on "morning joe," a conversation on the inspiration for today's gop. we'll be joined by the author of a book that examines the birch society and how it is shaping the current republican party. a little later, we're going to break down the stakes of an election in wisconsin that is coming down to the wire. "morning joe" is coming right back. we must finally hold social media companies accountable. it's time to pass bipartisan legislation to stop big tech from collecting personal data on our kids

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♪ i was feeling sad, kind of blue i didn't know what i was going to do ♪ ♪ the communist was coming around it was in the air, they was on the ground ♪ ♪ they was all over ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." ten minutes to the top of the hour. we approach the first presidential election since the january 6th insurrection. we are seeing shadows of a resurgence of a far-right political movement of the past. our next guest has a look at how the john birch society's teachings are being mirrored in the trump maga movement. joining us now, george washington university professor matthew dalek, author of "birchers: how the john birch society radicalized the american right." >> there is an ebb is flow.

when reagan campaigned in 1986, john birchers supported him. he was told to distance himself. i know matthew will know the statement better than me, but along the lines of, if they support me, they have to support my views, not vice versa. when i was running in 1994, there were still john birchers around. they were sort of kept at arm's length, the same way reagan kept them at arm's length. they were still in republican politics. the biggest difference now is the door has been opened unto them, and they're having a bigger impact than they have in quite some time. >> the thing i'm so struck by is the first 40, 50 minutes of your show, much of what we heard from ron desantis, donald trump, other leaders of the republican party strikes a birch key.

the conspiracy, the idea of a george soros plot, right, a jewish international figure, the kind of nativism and isolationism we've seen come atop the gop. a lot of these ideas are the descendents of the john birch society. you're right, joe, they still -- the birchers still exist as an organization. although, there are not many left. it's not like the 1960s when they were really the epitome of far-right extremism. now it's maga. >> the interesting thing, too, is, and i really should have focused more on this the last five, six years, but now that you're talking about it, they'd have these grand, sweeping conspiracy theories and it'd be international jewish bankers, just like ron desantis is talking about now. they would, you know -- surrounding it all was this fear that the communists were coming to get us, right? but the deeper you dug into it

when you'd push back, just like on the trump conspiracy theories, wait a second, we're pushing back on communism. we actually won the cold war. this was happening in '94 with me. we actually won the cold war. then they'd say, yes, but the united states is part of the conspiracy along with the communists. the deep state, they're working with -- i'd go, wait a second now. we fought a war against communism for a generation, we beat them, they're in total collapse, but, somehow, we're conspiring with the communists who we've been against? you get the idea because you know all of this. none of it made any sense. i was like, okay. then i'd say, let me talk about banning offshore oil drilling, everybody, and i'd go to another group of people. it didn't make sense. >> they're hard to follow. the most infamous conspiracy from the birchers was robert welch's, the

dwight eisenhower, the president and leader of d-day, a war hero, a general, was a dedicated agent of the communist conspiracy. that, of course, offended not just liberals but many republicans at the time. i mean, you know, how do you get from eisenhower to communism? the thing about these conspiracy theories is that they're very adaptable, right? their pliable. when the cold war ended, what you see are people like pat robertson, for example, or paul, adaptive versions of the conspiracy theories and waving them to different ends. ron paul spun this theory about a north american union. that george bush was conspiring with canada and south america to create a union like the european union. george bush said, i've been in

politics a long time. i've seen this rodeo show before. you throw out a conspiracy theory, they want you to refute it. i'm not playing that game. you know, it's impossible to refute. you know, the theories are so visintine, they spin a shard of truth and spin it into something unrecognizable. >> is this a strand of thought in american political life that is always there, that's always been there, and gets tapped into by the birchers or the tea party or by maga or whatever from time to time? >> it has -- yes, it's been there from the inception of the republic. i mean, of course, we were founded in opposition to the central state, and so, you know, this idea that the federal government was going to take away our liberties is really deeply engrained inside the united states. joe, you referenced trump's ref

rhetoric about a deep state. that's similar to joe mccarthy talking about the traders inside the state department, or you can go back to the founding of the republic or the 19th century, where they found conspiracy theories based in washington or about international bankers. i think within the country, and a lot of people have written about this, there is a deep rooted sense of especially centralized powers, whether that's mass media or washington, d.c., that is depriving people of wealth and their liberties. look, trump, in his final campaign ad in 2016, spun one of these. i mean, you can go back and watch the ad. he talks about how globalists, and he flashes on screen, i think, three jewish bankers, and says that the globalists are trying to take away your wealth. they've been stealing your wealth and rigging the system on your behalf.

so it's a very good question. you're right, i mean, it's deeply american. in some way, the difference now is it's become more and more mainstream for a variety of reasons, some of which i get into in the book. >> the book is "birchers, how the john birch society radicalized the american right." matthew dallek, thank you very much for coming on this morning. >> thanks so much. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll look at the stories making front page headlines across the country. in our next hour, we'll be joined by white house national security council official john kirby. we'll have a lot to cover with him on china and russia. that is straight ahead on "morning joe." if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, getrefunds.com can see if it may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee. all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then work with professionals to assist your business with its forms and submit the application. go to getrefunds.com to learn more.

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standard, and i used to be deputy chief of the criminal division in the southern district of new york, i wouldn't have touched a guy like michael cohen, especially if he is a convicted purgerer. >> first of all, he went to jail for being part of this scheme. so, willwillie, i mean, he's no lying about that. he actually got sent to jail. this was one of the reasons why. because he helped -- what did ron desantis say? he arranged a hush money payment to a porn star. so, yeah, it's interesting that bragg's office thought so little of trump ally robert costello's testimony, they didn't even call -- >> right. >> -- anybody back to repute it. it was, i guess, just a big nothing burger. >> that was the thing. michael cohen was put on standby in case the d.a.'s office needed

to rebut anything. they said, "you're cool at home. keep watching the basketball tournament. we don't need you." >> yeah. >> michael cohen pled guilty more than a year in the sentencing, some in home confinement. it was this payment, who made it, how it made its way. there are questions even democrats are raising about whether this is the case to lead with, whether this is the case that should be out front with donald trump with january 6th, the mar-a-lago documents and everything else coming. >> well -- >> you know, the d.a. is not coordinating with the justice department at the national level on who should go first. >> exactly. >> some people are worried this could end up being small potatoes, to borrow a trump term. >> less serious maybe, but a crime is a crime is a crime. i don't think the justice department and prosecutors are touching base with republicans in congress or members of the media as to their timing. as for michael cohen's testimony and whether or not this man

could refute it, we have experts here that can explain that they corroborate testimony with other sources. they're not just hanging on michael cohen. welcome back to michael -- to "morning joe" with reporting about michael cohen. it is tuesday, march 21st. jonathan lemire is still with us. joining the conversation, we have professor of history at rice university and presidential historian doug brinkley. "new york times" opinion columnist david french. and msnbc legal analyst charles coleman joins us this morning. so sources tell nbc news that law enforcement is bracing for modest protests in support of the former president today around trump tower and the d.a.'s office. yesterday, a handful of support ers responded to trump's calls for mass protests over the weekend to, quote, take our nation back. those came as prosecutors are reportedly zeroing in on a charge of falsifying business

records in connection with a hush money payment trump allegedly made to porn star stomy daniels in 2016 to keep her quiet about an affair she says the two had a decade earlier. trump denies any wrongdoing. charles coleman, for those who say this is the weaker case and, oh, there's a problem here, what say you to that? i'm assuming that those who are investigating donald trump for possible crimes committed are not interested in the level of the crime, they're interested in whether it's a crime. >> that's exactly right, mika. this is not the home run that some people may be looking for. at best, it is maybe a double. at the end of the day, accountability is accountability. you cannot have a conversation on one hand about a two-tiered justice system in america and then, on the other hand, say, well, this is not worth a prosecution. if the law has been broken, then the law needs to be upheld. that's really what we're talking about.

it's the rule of law and how alvin bragg is going about making sure it is upheld, regardless of the severity involved. >> what's your sense on a possible indictment from what we see in terms of new york preparing? obviously, we heard from the homeland security -- former homeland security secretary in the last hour about the tandem discussions, five different parties, the u.s. secret service, the nypd, all these different entities working together, preparing for something. >> right. i think that's an important point that you've made. you have coordination between a number of different law enforcement agencies. the secret service, new york police department, federal agencies, and they're all making sure that what we saw on january 6th, nothing like that is going to take place. it's also important for a sense of calm among all of us. the reason i say that, when you think of the number of people who showed up for january 6th, out of 74 million people who voted for donald trump, you had a few thousand who showed up to d.c.

literally over 99% of the people who voted for donald trump were not coming to d.c. they weren't protesting for donald trump. so to think that we would see anything near even a fraction of that, right here in the big apple, is unfathomable. we're not worried about that. alvin bragg, however, has shown tremendous leadership, standing with his staff and assistants and letting them know, we are not going to be intimidated. we are moving forward. >> and the maga voices are saying, don't go the new york. don't protest. let's hope it holds up and there is safety and peace here. from the long view of history, doug, we haven't seen this before, a former president potentially indicted. we don't know if the indicted will come down, but that's the signal we're getting. >> there was a vice president who had to resign. we've had bill clinton during his presidency have to become disbarred from practicing law.

we've had debs who ran for president as a socialist go to jail. this, though, is all something really different. we're deal winning a two-time impeached president donald trump. somebody who cheerleads for the proud boys, the birchers that matthew dallek wrote about so well. we have a president here calling for people to go in mass protest over my relationship with a port star. i agree completely, i don't think you'll get a big crowd in new york. there will be fringe people, the ones that show up at the grassy knoll, that see the qanon movement, to see john f. kennedy jr. appear. donald trump is going to milk this. >> he'll see a small crowd, and it'll bug him. >> this is the tip of the iceberg, maybe the least of his worries. the georgia investigation is out there. january 6th, as i said. of course, the mar-a-lago documents. this is all playing out in the middle of a presidential

campaign, of course. florida governor and possible 2024 candidate ron desantis weighed in on the potential indictment of trump for the first time yesterday. appearing to offer a backhanded defense of the former president. >> look, i don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged affair, i can't speak to that. but what i can speak to is that if you have a prosecutor who is ignoring crimes happening every single day in his jurisdiction, and he chooses to go back many, many years ago to try to use something about porn star hush money payments, you know, that's an example of pursuing a political agenda and weapon size weaponizing the office. i think that's fundamentally wrong. we are not involved in this.

i have no interest of getting involved in a manufactured circus by some srsoros d.a.,kay? i don't spend my time on things that don't matter to people. we're not going to be involved in any way. >> trump took to his truth social account and suggested desantis could find himself facing, quote, false accusations and fake stories in the future, going after ron desantis in more personal ways that we'll leave out of this conversation for now. joe, ron desantis for a brief moment went after, in his own way, donald trump on the charge of paying off a porn star hush money, but then attacked alvin bragg using george soros' name again and again. >> he did. it was the afterthought, though. notice what he led with. then he got the laugh from the audience. that's what everybody was focused on.

then he sort of had this recitation of, you know, republican talking points. of course, he had to end with the anti-semitic trope because that's just what trumpist republicans do right now. talking about international jewish bankers coming after donald trump, the former george soros. but, david french, i mean, the headline here, the rest was dicta. i mean, the headline here was, i know nothing about paying off porn stars, da, da, da. he set it up so that's what everybody would take note of. we saw from donald trump's post on social media, that was trump trump's takeaway, complete with his personal attack of ron desantis. >> yeah. i mean, there's no question that what just happened here was ron desantis took a real swipe at trump. i mean, one of the first major swipes at trump that we've seen

from him. so far, he's really done nothing more than sort of point to the scoreboard of election results and sort of tout his results in florida. but this was aimed directly at what donald trump actually did. when you aim at what donald trump actually did, i think you remind a lot of people exactly just how sleazy he is and has been. so for those people who are wanting to move on from trump, being reminded of trump's sleaze, i think, is a pretty clever tactic. then everything that followed after that was much less important than that initial shot across donald trump's brow. >> david, you're a perfect person to speak to this. when i hear people going, oh, this indictment will only help trump, first of all, no, it won't. everybody can keep whistling past the graveyard. i love left-wing members of the media who think they now understand the trump people. i drove 90 minutes into eastern

pennsylvania, so now i understand trump voters. i'm going to tell you, this indictment will only help him. as i was passing by a rest stop, i said, "will it help?" you know, it's a joke. first of all, the indictment doesn't help. you're going to have to spend more time than, like, five minutes in a rest stop in eastern pennsylvania to figure out the trump voter. secondly, david, let's dig deeper into the people, into our tribe, the people we grew up with. evangelicals who, in my opinion, shamelessly backed donald trump over the past four, five years. i have to say, i know people won't understand it watching this show, it breaks my heart that billy graham's son would continue to defend donald trump, but side issue we can talk about another day. but evangelicals, my friends, i

know your friends, even though i haven't talked to you, they're kind of like, okay, we voted for him so he could beat hillary clinton. he took it to those left wingers in the media and those left wingers on college campuses. but, you know, the porn star stuff, all that, it's just a mess. let's move on. i actually think, and i've thought from the beginning, this indictment, for where donald trump is in this campaign, is actually the worst. the discussion about a payoff to a porn star is actually the worst thing for donald trump right now. those evangelicals are so important to him, and this, every day, is picking away at that scab that, unfortunately, evangelicals have felt nagging at them for six years. yes, i'm voting for a guy who paid off a porn star illegally, and desantis knows that.

it's why he brought it up yesterday, right? >> well, absolutely. first, on this point, does the indictment help trump? if somebody is sitting there saying, i was really over donald trump until they indicted him, and now i'm back on team trump, they weren't over donald trump. i mean, that's absurd. they were with him. they're remaining with him. look, i think what happened in the evangelical voting public is really a lot of the people who held their nose for him in 2016, by 2020, were the third bass boat in the boat parade. a lot of people went all in on him, even knowing all of his problems. for them, i don't think this potential indictment does anything at all. i don't think a georgia indictment does anything at all. there is a category of people in the evangelical community, a people who are just all in on trump, in part because he is so punitive and pugilistic. they like that. but there is another category of people, and i interact with them all the time, that they are

truly tired of the drama. an indictment isn't going to bind them to donald trump. an indictment is going to further separate them. i just think all of this commentary that says an indictment is good for him politically, that's twitter nonsense. it's not where people really are. >> it's twitter nonsense and liberals in the media trying to say, i got the trump voter. i get how they think. it's not going to do it. it's also going to peel off swing voters, willie, as we've said, in wisconsin andand michi and pennsylvania, suburbs of north carolina, arizona, all these places. it'll peel off another 1%, 2%. people say, what am i supposed to do, vote for hillary clinton or donald trump? what am i going to do, support aoc or blah, blah, blah? now, the choice is do i support donald trump or ron desantis? the ground isn't so fertile for

donald trump. i agree with french. somebody said in a joke, i am so offended by what donald trump did, and i have never supported him, but this is so offensive, what the d.a. is doing, i'm going to be forced to vote for him for the third time. >> exactly. there is that category of exhaustion, too. when you talk about the suburban voters, they go, oh, 2016, stormy daniels, are we really doing this again? maybe they will look on and it could be, though he's not in the race, jonathan lemire, ron desantis. there is a reason donald trump breathes fire back at ron desantis in the way he did yet on truth social on this comment, but also going into personal stuff that's not true. that's never stopped donald trump. ron desantis is the only person, is he not, that donald trump is threatened by, potentially joining this 2024 race? >> there's no question. every conversation i've had with people in trump's circle say they think this is a two-person race.

they, of course, are confident. they think they'll win it. they see desantis as his only rival, which is why trump has been so on the attack for weeks. also, desantis is the governor of his new home state there in florida. yesterday, it felt like a warning shot across the bow of desantis. i'm going to deal in ugly rumors, not facts, doesn't have to be. in 2016, most of those republicans who took on trump still adhered to the guardrails. they still sort of conducted that campaign like all the other campaigns that came before. we're in a new era now. this is a trump era. desantis, you know, is going to have to play on that turf, at least to some degree. we saw yesterday he hit back, at least a little bit, with the hush money payment. i'm sure next, we'll hear him use, i don't know what it is like to be impeached twice, and go from there.

doug brinkley, let's talk about how ugly this could be. there's never been a presidential candidate running under indictment, but there would be some historical parallels for a scorched earth, grievance campaign. we should note, donald trump's first rally of the election cycle, this saturday, waco, texas, where he is really leaning into this idea of deep state government conspiracy, and a dangerous one. >> exactly. i mean, waco is perfect for donald trump. that's why i was suggesting earlier, new york is not going to be where this showdown takes place probably next week. when trump gets to waco and other places, he is going to start using the fact of new york city is after him. northern liberals are after him. the george soros crowd is after him. he's going to kind of pile it on to a new set piece, trying to use this to his advantage. i agree with joe. i mean, there's nothing quite

like this. this is indictment number one. in may, we could have georgia as number two. number three. indictments on a former president who, on a good day, he could get 40% of the public behind him. this has become not a democratic party issue. it's trump and desantis. can the republican party navigate through this? trump is going to go scorched earth on desantis? you'd have the mitt romney, liz cheney, sununu lane, and then desantis damaged by trump who will say, i'll bolt the party if you don't vote for me. you have an ex-president coming like niagara falls onto the political scene again and doesn't have a lot of supporters but has a megaphone. we can't use the word tweet. his new social media saying, tuesday would be the day. >> terrible.

>> blew all this up. i'll use the word arrested, so it'd get the base going. he has to be the one we're talking about. that's for donald trump, a win of sorts. >> first of all, i want to just really quickly say about waco, i've got a lot of friends. my best friend from church in high school is in waco. i've got a ton of friends that went to baylor, who love waco. i love waco. spent some time there. the republic reasons i love wac the reasons donald trump is going to waco. david french, i remember when oklahoma city, when there was the oklahoma city bombing in 1995, people on cnn kept -- i was a freshman member of congress. people on cnn kept talking about, oh, muslim extremism, islamic extremism. after listening for 30 minutes, i called frank sessno, and i

said, this is not islamic terrorism. i think it was the an verse are anniversary of ruby ridge. i'd heard people talking about this date, and this is domestic terrorism. we went, what? i said, this is the anniversary of -- again, i think it was ruby ridge. this date means a lot to these white nationalists. that's -- oh, sorry, it was waco. i'm confusing myself. it was the anniversary of waco, which is why oklahoma city blew up the way it did. it was anniversary of waco. forgive me. it was 20 years ago, and i'm an old man now, david. but that actually proves my point better as i bumble along like grandpa joe here. that waco holds such a symboic,

just hold over these conspiracy theorists. that was the date used to attack oklahoma city. >> well, right. look, i think, you know, when you're talking about trump right now, if you followed him on truth social, and i hope for your own mental health you're not really following him on truth social, but if you are following him on truth social, you'll notice that he's just gotten more conspiratorial as time has gone by. that reflects his core base. his base has narrowed and intensified. so what you're dealing with is a base that is smaller than it used to be. desantis made inroads, though there is troubling polling indications that desantis has been losing ground of late. but his base is narrow but very, very intense. i can tell you, if you are talking to a lot of the grassroots activists and republican americans now, you'll find people deeply committed to

a lot of different conspiracy theories. again, not everybody. not most people. but when you're talking about donald trump's core base, you're talking about a very intense, very conspiratorial set of americans. that, to me, is what's dangerous, is their sheer intensity, their conspiratorial mindset. that's what's dangerous. >> i looked at the list of positives about waco. the dr. pepper museum, joe. also, most importantly, chip and joanna gaines, "fixer upper." let's add that in. charles, let's go down the list. we're talking about the investigation from the manhattan district attorney's office. we still have fani willis down in georgia looking into what we have on tape, donald trump trying to flip with the secretary of state some votes there in 2020. you have the january 6th special counsel investigation, donald trump's inner circle already brought in for interviews and depositions. you have the mar-a-lago documents case. you have more than 100 classified documents. so this is just the tip of the

iceberg, what donald trump is facing. >> absolutely. this is the first domino, if you will, to fall in the numerous different investigations that donald trump is engaged in and that the legal entanglements he has, that he is embroiled in. out of nowhere, alvin bragg has taken the lead in a foot race that everyone has been trying to hedge their bets in terms of who was going to be the first person to make history around indicting a former president. and so even though alvin bragg at one point held off, he at some point decided that there was new information that made him want to move forward with this legal theory he'd already tested in the past. you're right, of all the things going on, this is the first. there's so many other things he has to worry about it. jack smith, fani willis. neither have been finished with what they're doing. he is still in significant legal trouble. >> all right. msnbc legal analyst charles coleman, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. douglas brinkley, thank you, as well. david french, let me ask you

real quickly, now, you're a kentucky fan. did you go to kentucky? >> no. i grew up in scott county, just one county away from the mecca of college basketball. >> my mom and dad both went to kentucky. i always cheer for 'em, especially since my dad passed. i cheer extra hard for them. rough loss this weekend, huh? >> you know, john caliperi's days might be numbered as the university of kentucky. >> whoa. >> there's not been a lot of success in the tournament in the last few years. that's the measure, not the number of nba number one draft picks you have. it's how you do in the tournament. we'll see. >> yeah, no doubt about it. hey, before we let you go, really quickly, you were talking about, you wrote a column about stress. stress and anxiety that our children are facing. talk about that. why is that happening?

we talk about i all the time here. curious about your insights. >> yeah, there's been a ton of attention on teen stress and anxiety. 44% or so of teens now report persistent feelings of sadness and hopelessness. there's been a lot of speculation. is it the phones? is it increasing secularization? is it politics? it's all of those, but it is also something else. if you look at stress and anxiety, not just of teens but of adults, of parents, parents are stressed and anxious, as well. one of the things that i talked about in my piece was how parental stress and parental anxiety is inflicting stress and anxiety on our teen kids. whether it's from politics, stress and anger about politics, or achievement, where parental pressure for achievement is an independent stressor for kids. but it's one of the most important issues in american public life right now, this escalating sense of anxiety and

hopelessness in our kids. i wrote the column to interject a new factor into the discussion, where we're not always talking about phones or politics, but where we talk about parents, as well, and what role do we play in projecting depression or anxiety or other forms of stress onto our kids because they take cues from us. >> yeah. well, it actually -- again, we talk about there's a legal case we were covering yesterday and we will be following out of california, a school system suing social media. the parallel to big tobacco. again, cigarettes. kids modeling after adults in many ways. david french, thank you very, very much. we appreciate your coming on this morning. we'd love to have you back to talk more about that. still ahead on "morning joe," secretary of state antony blinken is criticizing china's leader for providing, quote, diplomatic cover to vladimir putin during a so-called peace mission in moscow this week.

we'll discuss the implications for the war in ukraine with national security council's john kirby. plus, the ranking member jim himes will join the conversation. also, a record setting win at the world cup just made mikaela shiffrin the most successful alpine skier in the history of the sport. the olympic champ is our guest this morning. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. 'll replace, and recalibrate your advanced safety system. so automatic emergency braking and lane departure warning work properly. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

live look at the white house at half past the hour. new this morning, chinese state media reports xi jinping invited vladimir putin to an event in china later this year for an international forum called the belt and road initiative. putin attended both of the previous forums held by china in 2017 and 2019. this comes as the two leaders

hold a second round of meetings today in moscow. look at that. joining us now, national security council coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby. i assume that the white house is watching this closely. what is the white house's response to this meeting so far? >> we've been monitoring as best we can. we're not in the room, so we don't know exactly what the leaders are talking about. we made clear one of the things we'd be concerned coming out of the two-day meeting is a call for a cease-fire. we believe that would, at this time, ratify russia's conquest. we've also been very clear that, while these two nations can certainly have bilateral relations, we don't view this discussion or this burgeoning closeness of these two countries as anything more than a marriage of convenience. president xi finds in president putin a useful foil for what i having or bristling or pushing

back against american leadership around the world, particularly on the continent. president putin needs xi because he's running out of ammunition. he's running out of the inventory he needs to continue to fight this work. it is likely that he is going to be looking for more help from china. >> admiral, president xi and the chinese government claim to have brought with them to moscow a proposal for a resolution in the conflict of ukraine. president putin said yesterday he viewed that with respect, whatever that means exactly. do you believe that china, do you believe that president xi has the power to influence vladimir putin over ukraine? >> he certainly has influence over president putin. there's no question about that. because you can just see how aggressively president putin has been seeking president xi's approval and president xi's assistance in helping him fight this war in ukraine. whether he has that much influence over president putin i think remains to be seen. i will say this, willie, to date, president putin has shown

absolutely zero interest in ending this war. he could end it today. we don't have to go to the negotiating table. pull the troops out. no interest in doing that. quite the contrary, he continues to bomb innocent ukrainian citizens, deport their children, and strike at their infrastructure. we're judging him on his action, not his words. >> in fact, just visited mariupol to reinforce that russia is in this for the long haul. if not the influence of president xi, if not the influence of china on president putin, where do you all view this headed? where do you view an off-ramp, it's an overused term, but a way for this war to end if vladimir putin, frankly, isn't listening to anybody? >> given he's not going to pull out and end the war today, we all want this to end as quickly as possible, the ukrainians themselves would like to see this war end, of course, as soon as possible. we're going to keep working with president zelenskyy to help him actualize this idea of a just peace. you saw him put out a 10-point proposal in the summertime about

that. we're going to help him and his team, see if there is a way to actualize that. also, we're going to make sure that we are teeing him up, zelenskyy, for success at the negotiating table if and when it comes to that. we just announced another package of support yesterday. mostly ammunition, missiles and artillery ammunition, to help them in the fighting that's to come. make no mistake about it, willie, for all this talk about peace and cease-fire, president putin is making every intention known, that he is going to restart offensive operations in the spring when the weather gets better. we have to make sure the ukrainians are ready to defend themselves and also go on the offense themselves. >> admiral kirby, let's talk about this lasting friendship between china and russia. when you first look at it, you'd say, what hurts the united states helps china. so maybe this war, maybe some people might say, well, this is hurting the united states.

but it's actually -- isn't it hurting china more? isn't peace in china's best interest? look at the gdp of the united states, of europe, of japan, of australia, of all of the people on our side of this conflict. it's over $50 trillion a year. you look at china's, it's $17 trillion. russia's is less than texas by a good chunk. so how does this help china, for this war to continue, if they're going up against the richest, most powerful countries on the planet and their economy is sagging? >> you're absolutely right, joe. you hit on a key point here. china is in a difficult spot. they'd like this war to end, too. they don't want russia to go down in flames in ukraine. they see russia as a useful foil for american leadership around the world. that's the only reason this

relationship is persisting the way it is. president xi sees president putin as a helpful aide in pushing back on the west. he doesn't want to see russia lose. he doesn't want to see the war go on. he is trying to balance this competing need, which is why if you look at china's position, joe, they haven't condemned the war but they haven't provided lethal weapons. they haven't enforced the sanctions. they're buying russian oil, but they weren't enforced the sanctions. a few months ago, at the shanghai cooperation organization meeting, president xi publicly criticized president putin's nuclear rhetoric. the bombastic talk that putin has put out there about the potential use for nuclear weapons. president xi finds himself in this weird position, wanting the war to end but not wanting russia to lose. >> jonathan lemire. good morning. speaking of ammunition, as you

said, russia hoping china will supply them with some, with some lethal military aid. give us an update, if you, about where ukraine stands. they've been sounding the alarm in recent weeks, that they didn't have the weaponry, the supplies, and perhaps the manpower needed to launch this spring counteroffensive. can you give us a sense as to where they are right now on the eve of what could be this assault? >> well, we're mindful that they are working through their inventory at a pretty fast clip here, familiarly in the donbas and this fighting over bakhmut. we also reognize that if they're going to be able to adequately defend themselves in the spring, and yet again, go on the offense, they're going to need more. that's why you saw in the package president biden signed out yesterday more rocket systems, more artillery rounds, clearing equipment, what they'll need in the spring in the weeks and months ahead. we're mindful of their inventory

concerns. we're marshalling ours, as well, to preserve our national security interest. we're working with allies to help them backfire the needs ukrainians have. we know it'll be a tough spring. both sides are going to come out slugging, and we have to mange the ukrainians to punch above their weight. >> the pols are helping. poland sent migs over there. i have to ask you a question i asked hillary clinton when we were in abu dhabi. she didn't have the answer, but i'm sure you will. why does it take two years to get abrams tanks over to ukraine? >> yeah. >> to help the ukrainians push back against russian aggression. and how can we speed that up? >> okay, two things here. f-16s and tanks, very, very different systems. the president has been clear

that we're -- that for right now, we're not looking at f-16s to go to ukraine. we are really, joe, trying to prioritize on the kinds of systems that we know they're really going to need the most in the weeks and months ahead. it's artillery, ammunition, air defense and, of course, arbored armored capability. that gets to tanks. the pentagon is working as fast as they can, and they'll have more to say on adjustments they're making, to try to get abrams tanks to ukraine a little faster than previously expected. we're working on that. there's some changes that you can make to the process, to sort of speed that up. again, i'll let the pentagon speak to that. these are sophisticated tanks. we don't have a heck of a lot of them sitting on the shelf. to learn how to use the tank takes a lot of training. for instance, the training on

the abrams tanks for american soldiers is 16 weeks long, just to operate it. then you have to maintain it. you have to have a supply chain to keep the parts and supplies going while you're in combat, while you are fighting and while the tanks are going to be taking hits. there's a lot to be considered. when we get them an advanced system, patriot system is a good example. just finished up the ukrainians training a couple weeks ago. when you get an advanced system like that in place, you want it to fall on ready hands. you want it to fall on a ready supply system and a supply chain that can handle it. that's what we're focused on. >> coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, retired rear admiral, john kirby, thank you very much. >> yes, ma'am. coming up, a conversation about the importance of local elections and non-partisan politics. one of our "morning joe" originals, oscar-winning

screenwriter john ridley joins us for that. >> ridley is back. >> he's back. plus, former democratic senator al franken. >> hold on, mika. i thought when you said one of our "morning joe" originals, you were talking about chris licht. he was on the set. >> he was typing. >> our man. >> john is such an original. he was in new jersey with us. >> i know. that's going way back. >> og status. >> with the fake brick. >> way back. >> he was in the fake brick building near a strip mall. >> you loved the fake brick. >> i know. i liked the stores nearby. they were, like, outlets. >> yeah. >> ours was a former outlet. >> once i parked at the outlet by mistake, got lost. >> walked into liz claiborne? >> no, it was 4:00 a.m., willie. i got confused. former democratic senator al franken who kicked off a week-long stint as "daily show" host last night, he's our guest

this morning. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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47 past the hour. it's been called the most important election this year because it could decide the future of abortion rights, redistricting, and more in a key battleground state. voters in wisconsin can cast their ballot starting today in the state's high-stakes supreme court race. later today, republican-backed dan kelly will face off against democrat supported janet protasiewicz for the first and only debate just two weeks before election day. whoever wins the april 4th election for a seat vacated by the retirement of a conservative justice will determine majority control of the court for at least the next two years, including leading up to the 2024 presidential election.

the wisconsin supreme court came within one vote of on turning former president donald trump's defeat in 2020. this year's election is expected to be tight, with the minority vote seen as crucial in a state where about 80% of the population is white. joining us now, academy award-winning screenwriter and founder of no studios, john ridley. he grew up in wisconsin and held an event last week with young people to help turn out the vote. ridley, it's great to see you again. obviously, your home state, but tell us what compelled you to get involved in this way. >> as you say, mika, it's where i was born and raised. my parents still live in wisconsin. my parents were about service. my father was a doctor who served in the air force. my mother was a teacher. her younger system, her family still lives there. with my older sister, lisa, we

started no studios, which is art and activism. we've had q&as with senator ron johnson as well as governor tony evers, as well as q&a with both of the candidates, dan and janet. as someone from wisconsin, it's a good name. we had a debate with them, and this is an important election. you mentioned reproductive rights. the laws in wisconsin date back to 1849. before members of my family were free people, these laws about women's rights were in place. gerrymandering, gun control, potentially overseeing elections, all of that is on the ballot. in wisconsin, and across america, unfortunately, young people are more likely to go to concerts than they are to vote. among the things that we're

doing, it's part of the i voted festival. go to ivotedfestival.org. people should vote no matter what. if you vote, if you show you are a voter, you can go to free concerts across wisconsin. we want to get people out. this is important. we know people are tired of hearing about every election is an important election. about eve an important election. important election but that is the truth. however you believe, whether i agree with you or not on the policy, vote be part of the process. >> jon, wisconsin really is the heart of so many challenges and when democrats a couple years ago complaining about this or that happening and how could this be, i would say, republicans have gerrymandered the states republicans focus on local politics and this sort of stuff.

if you didn't like the jury instructions in the kyle rittenhouse case, it was by the state legislature elected by local people if you don't like the fact that democrats always outperform against republicans and compared to how many seats in the state legislature don't blame th blame yourself. i can't think of a state more important for people who care about representative democracy and who hate gerrymandering to focus on than wisconsin. wisconsin is the swingiest of swing states. senator ron johnson very conservative republican re-elected and the governor very progressive democrat in my opinion a great guy was also re-elected. you see people who are splitting

votes crossing line to vote for the person they believe in. just an indication of how important wisconsin is to the national landscape in 2020 the democratic national convention meant to be held in milwaukee. but in the next presidential election cycle the republican national committee is holding their convention in milwaukee because how wisconsin goads -- look. this is truism. focused on georgia and michigan. wisconsin is as purple as it gets and both sides want to plant the flags and drive the vote. i was in wisconsin during the first shooting of a black man in the back by police officers. kyle rittenhouse used a self defense in his defense talking about self defense but underage

and carrying a gun. wisconsin is full of stress points. it is where i'm from. i returned to have a business there for a reason. republicans talked about it with pride of how they tried to suppress the vote in milwaukee. 80% of the population in wisconsin is white. wonderful, great people but there are opportunities to divide people in that regard. we can't have that again. i may not like how that vote goes but there's a difference between saying to everyone your vote counts or stopping people from voting. that is not right. >> it is sono great to see you. i know you miss sitting next to me as i do to you in new jersey

at 4:00 in the morning 15 years ago. another race comingye up with tammy baldwin fighting to keep her seat in 2024. want to get your smart brain on the bigger stuff playing out this morning. we have had manhattan d.a. potentially going to indict donald trump. a case in georgia with the fulton county d.a. mar-a-lago documents and now house of representative controlled byof republicans looking toll rally a defense around donald trump talking about the weaponization of the federal government and the district attorney's office. what doof you hear when you hea that term? >> i'm going to be try to be very, very calm. you know i have been writing about policing in community going back to the article in

"esquire." people may have challenged the direction but notal the facts. i want to be careful. i don't want to paint with a wide brush or try to indict all white folks but hearing from privileged white men talking about the weaponization of the law they don't know what they are talking about. as a black man, the law has been weaponized against us going back to the constitution and being considered 3/5th of a human being. segregation. if you are an asian american, the chinese exclusion act. that's weaponization. executive order 9066 is weaponization. i won't explain what that is. i'm sure professor ron desantis will tell you all about that. individuals talking about the weaponization? as black and brown people we are told part of the problem with negative interactions between

community and police is because we don'tli comply and listen. we don't appreciate law enforcement. we don't care about this country but the moment that the process is in play as it should. i don't know if donald trump is guilty or not but i know that the court of law is where an individual goes to i literally have their day. and when it happens to them, when the process is presented, whoa, it is being weaponized and turned against me. kevin mccarthy saying to alvin bragg come in and answer questions. that's what the court is for. i'm not trying to be hyper bollic but when kevin mccarthies of the world say to the black prosecutor you no ed to come in and answer questions -- i'm sorry. we are not living on the plantation anymore. he has no right and reason to ask this individual to come in

and answer questions when that is what the court is for. that is what the juries are for, what evidence is for, what grand juries are for. not for kevin mccarthy. not for jim jordan. by the way, asked to answer questions, when you literally see a white riot and they don't want to talk about that, don't switch the game on us. don't flip the script. i would hope mr. bragg while i hope he obeys and respects the law as wes do. my father served in the u.s. military. he didn't hate this country. uncle was a tuskegee airman. we don't hate this country. we love it with our flesh and blood and vote but what we have problems with is when the law is turned against us and the law

is -- choosed to be used as the prevailing culture. we see it and it is painful to us. like myself. i believe sometimes i failed to serveed my country in the ways could but i do to get people to vote and painful seeing moments like this playing out in front of our eyes. >> think about this. you have those republicans you were talking about ignore subpoenas. they just ignored subpoenas. now the same republicans are saying, to a black d.a. we will subpoena you. come on in here. you got to talk to us. we got some things to say to you. think about this. i have spoken about this on the show. i find it remarkable that it

took this country from 1776 to 1965 to actually begin moving toward being a more perfect union. we are still moving in that direction. we have made extraordinary gains over 50 years. we have a long way to go. like you said, there's a lot to love about this country. i find it remarkable that the americans who have the least reasone to love this country given what they have been through for the better part of 200 years, black women were the ones that stepped up in atlanta, stepped up in philadelphia,

stepped up in detroit, stepped up in milwaukee, stepped up all over america and actually saved -- here's the great irony. they saved mansonian democracy. they had the least of reasons. like your father loves america. we have other people on who talk about this. whose parents served in the military. they didn't hate america. they love america, through it all. proud to be americans and serve in the uniforms and wave the flag. yet theve snowflakes in the republican party are triggered because they lose one election. they lose the 2020 election. suddenly they hate the military.

ted cruz says i wish we could be more like the russians. they hate the pentagon. fox news says they're going to use helicopters that killed people in afghanistan and bring them to america to kill us. they hate law enforcement. they use american flags to beat the hell out of cops. they say the fbi is going to kickgo down doors and kill americans that voted for trump. they lie about irs agents saying they are going to iowa to kick down doors and kill small business owners. john, they act this way because they lost one presidential election. i'll just say they are ready to say the hell with america. we hate america. we hate american institutions because we lost one election.

these people you speak of, your family, the black women that came out and helped defeat a guy who wanted to quote terminate the constitution, they still love america. it's a remarkable story. >> i agree with everything that you are saying. i really do. i would sayly this as a black m in america. how can youca not love this country? the fact that i'm sitting here with you, the life i have had, my parents said to me and i believe i said this on the show before. they said i'm lucky in two ways. i think they kidding on the square why born to a pair of great parents. i believe that. i was lucky to be born in this country. no disrespect to any other country but where else could a young man come from a family who were slaves, chattel, beaten to

a family who believed in education? my father's parents looked at the family and said my father was going to be a doctor. he didn't have a choice. he a did it. and he gave myself, my sisters every opportunity there is in termsis of education and furthering ourself to say to our children, do what you want. we have built this family. it is your time to succeed, to fail, to live, to do what you want like any other citizen. and to see people as you say one election that was legitimately lost. al gore conceded. people challenge elections but to have people riot. if youle saw the chris rock special who are they trying to take thery government from?

themselves. it is not like it was a lot of blacks folks coming in and hispanics. but to them just the idea it wasn't more of the same. as you say it is not funny. officers were beaten. law enforcement tested. that is wherew it becomes painl because we are told we don't love the law and respect police officers. i'm sorry. i don't know when the last time it was black and brown people. it is pain. but that's why people vote. you got to vote. but you got to vote. >> john ridley, thank you so much. the only laughing is to not cry for our country. >> thank you. just passed the top of the hour. >> throwback tuesday. fantastic. >> march 21.

we start the hour with this. >> i got to say, who would have ever thought that donald trump would be brought down by a porn star? all of us. right? it was pretty predictable. but yeah. donald trump paid stormy daniels to keep the story quiet and here we are still talking about it seven years ago. that's another failed trump business venture. >>ne that is former senator al franken on last night's "daily show." i cannot believe your guest is alan ruck from "succession." >> yeah. >> want to talk about that. >> want me to get him here? >> yes. >> okay. i'll ask him. >> please do. also with us john breznahan and

jonathan lemire. we start in manhattan. sources tell nbc news that law enforcement is bracing for modest protests in support of the former president today. around trump tower and the district owattorney's office. a handful of supporters responded to quote take our nation back. those capable as prosecutors are reportedly zeroing in on a charge ofn falsifying business records inf connection with th hush money payment trump allegedly made to stormy daniels in or2016 to keep her quiet abo thequ affair she says they had decade ago. earlier than that. trump denies the affair and wrongdoing.

the grand jury in the case reconvenes tomorrow. yesterday the grand jury heard from lawyer robert costello who advised michael cohen. michael cohen, star witness in the tacase, brought in yesterda to be on stand-by as a possible rebuttal witness for costello's testimony but that rebuttal was never needed. after two hours costello tried to -- told reporters he has no agenda except exposing the truth. i don't know, willie. do you see that as his agenda? al franken? >> noble agenda. >> yeah? >>nd exposing the truth. >> generally speaking, yeah. >> yeah. >> y yeah. >> he was quite loquacious yesterday getting into the drama

about michael cohen's behavior. i think the only problem here is it is not just michael cohen's testimony that the grand jury is looking at but corroborating evidence. you can discredit him as much as you want but they're not just taking that. >> evidence of the payment. theof check. the emails. at the 11th hour they can go after michael cohen's credibilityco but the grand jur seems close to something here. watching thishi play out in new york, potentially the tip of the iceberg for donald trump with georgia, january 6, mar-a-lago. how do you see this playing out? how does it hurt him if it does? >> i don't know what will happen. just because donald trump said he would be arrested his track record on --re an i no evidencef that, by the way. made up the day, tuesday.

>> he could be. wanted to>> whip up the people. you saw the size of the demonstration on his behalf. about three people. it is a crime. she was trying to win the election and covered that up. she wept to "national enquirer" and this was about winning the election and a crime. the biggest crime of course is i had lindsey graham on last night. it was fun. we are friends kind of. the voice said he was the funniest senator and people like me hateeo to hear that. but you know, he agreed the election wasn't stolen. and trump knew the election wasn't stolen. number one agreement in the country is peaceful transition

of power and then we made a bet. he said trump would be the nominee. i said biden is. he said okay. may the winner of the election. i saidwi that's the way it's supposed to be. >> right. right. > that's the way it was supposed to be. >> joe, jump in. >> talk about what it's like. you salk about lindsey. we talk to members of the house and trash trump behind the scenes. cannd you let the friends that watch thefr show in on just how widespread you found that to be during your time of service and beyond? >> it was pretty uniform. i tell the story about in '16 running against trump and

lindsey at about 2%. i'm in the senate bathroom. i say if i were a republican i would vote for you for president. lindsey said that's my problem. he hated trump at the time and said terrible things about him and then -- when he was elected, i have to say, my colleagues were shocked. all down the line except for sessions ie guess. on the subway republicans couldn't believe it but they fell in i line. if you didn't they got clobbered. >> and continue to fall in line. >> then lindsey became his best friend and plays golf with him. that's lindsey. he is a cynical guy, too.

once he said taking your family for sun? i said more. he said do one for the people of statehood and one against. they never talk to each other. >> oh my god. >> that is his sense of humor. it is all about how cynical he is. lindsey is from south carolina. you got to be for trump. he is also in the action. now he is the biggest trump supporter there is. >> even on the night of january 6, that's it. i'm out. i'm out. then harassed at national airport and back on board. >> keeps saying i voted to certify. he did on the 6th. >> there's been wish casting that the party is moving past donald trump. maybe ron desantisng is the alternative. it is not in the polls. the party seems to be staying

with donald trump despite his track record. do you talk to republicans who actually believe the party moved passed him? >> lindsey doesn't. you don't know. desantis, you know, scott walker. we have seen it before. it haven't seen him as a star yet. who knows? no. there's no real listen to believe -- if they have primaries and they're winner take all and could win with 30% like he did and get the nomination. i wouldn't -- do it while indicted. >> hmm. joe? >>. senator, for you, what do u think is at stake in the 2024 election if donald trump is the republican t nominee? >> oh, everything.

i was basically saying this to lindsey last night. the guy is a malignant narcissist. he picked a few good people at the beginning of the administration and when they went away it was one worst person after another. it was a cleptocracy. he tried to -- he staged a coup. this is the worst possible person we could have in the whitee house. republicans who care about this country if bernie sanders is running against trump they should go at least we want that believes in the country and the system why it is a frightening prospect. i don't think he wins. >> let's bring into the conversation ranking member of the house intelligence committee

jim himes. talked to him about what's going on with the banks in a moment. let you jump in on the conversation about a possible indictment from the manhattan district attorney. the former president's reaction to it and some colleagues in the house that republicans in the judiciary committee want alvin bragg to come to washington and explain himself about why he is investigating donald trump. >> styeah. it is appalling. you guys hit on the key point here. one, i'm not too worried about violence. the three or four people that showed up. just wait until they meet a prepped and m ready nypd. it will not look like january 6. number two, trump doing this is completely unsurprising. we continue to be surprised by the depths of his depravity. he breaks the rules and the

norms and the law and doesn't know he is doing it. what is appalling considering where i work is the fact that these representatives of the party ofes reagan and eisenhowe and family values are now taking a guy who apparently paid off a porn star and defending him. that tofe me really just shines light on this festering wound on the democracy that we just don't see more willingness on this formerly great party of people to say this is not who we are but that is donald trump. >> hey, to this point most republicans have backed donald trump. they have stayed in line with him on the eve of this what could be a possible indictment and going to get cover from the new republican majority in the

house. kevinin mccarthy. others. brandishing real threats. walk us through what they plan to do and what alarm is being sounded by democrats over the possible maneuvers. >> wele had three house committ chairmen write a letter to d.a. bragg. they sent a letter to bragg saying we want you to come in for an interview about this case by next thursday. by thursday. and then we also want you to turn over documents related to the case and any discussions with the justice department. they haven't threatened to subpoenane yet but that's a rea possibility out there. this is an extraordinary action to have a house committee

intervene in ongoing criminal investigation. it is bad precedent. so the idea of a subpoena is probably out there. we expect something out of bragg possibly today, some response to the letter. we are told that he is not going to comply with the request for an finterview and then the republicans will make a decision. will they subpoena him which would be again a further problem for the separation of powers. >> congressman, the ceo of jpmorgan chase is leading the effort to save first republic bank. jamie dimon with conversations about to boost the capital. last week 11 of the country's biggest institutions deposited $30 billion into first republic

to save it. the bank is facing pressure to reassure investors it can survive. closing at the lowest price on record. the bank stock lost more than 90% of the value this month. just for the layman what is going on in the last two weeks with the banking system? are you confident that it is solid today? >> i am confident. we had a problem that originated at silicon valley bank that was a pretty narrow problem. you have banks who has deposited the vast majority of which uninsured. of course that is what happened at silicon valley bank. this is not 2008, 2009 all of

again. where the monsters had toxic paper on the books. what's interesting is the regulators stepped in. they did a very narrowly tailored operation to restore confidence. i think the regulators stepped in in a competent way. this iset interesting if you lo at the politics. first republic is sustained by the banks industry itself. this has something to do with the more you see the regulators need to step in and guarantee depositive its americans notice the notion that when banks act irresponsibly the government are there tosp help them but your average american struggling with

the mortgage don't get that supporter. that is politically toxic. i think what you are seeing is the industry recognizing if we don't assist the stabilization here the t political blowback i going to be ugly just the way it wasth in 2009, 2010. >> all right. thank you so much. i wanted to ask about the temperature. taking a temperature on this issue in congress. obviously a lot of populists on both sides of the aisle and banks that wouldn't pass a stress test suggest more bailouts might be on the horizon. what's the appetite of congress? >>et there's discussion about extending the fdic's $250,000 guarantee on accounts. democrats talking about it. republicans don't want to. i think everybody is waiting on the fed tomorrow.

what happens in the markets today. there'se a really tush went we. i think congress is waiting for guidance from above. treasury secretary yellen will speak today. i think they are waiting on the administration. >> all right. thank you so much for being here. hey, senator, tell us what the rest of the week is looking like on "the daily show" and how much do you enjoy being there this week? >> last night was my first night. i was nervous. >> really? were you sweating? >> i don't sweat. i just get jittery. it came out great. >> good! talking to lindsey and the audience is really hot. so yeah. going to be talking a lot about what's happening. probably the bank crisis which is hilarious. but have alan ruck who's from --

>> "succession." we need him. >> heather mcghee talking about how the upper class whites have told poor whites that anything helps black people hurts them and nothing could be further from the truth. she actually also studies banking. and there's -- tonight i think we have a t film where i go to e sanitation department in new york. i'mew fascinated with trash. we have lots and lots and lots of trash. the commissioner tish is doing a great job there. >> is there a political narrative to be watching? >> i discuss with lindsey last

night is he acknowledged that the election wasn't stolen and we agreed that the person who wins the election should be the president. >> imagine that. >> good point of agreement i thought. >> yeah. >> it's -- yeah. that wass an interesting discussion. obviously going to be following this. i believeow he'll be indicted i georgia. you remember whengi trump said could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot somebody and -- >> get away with it. >> i wouldn't lose a vote? that might have been true but we would have been indicted for shooting disomeone. you know? aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. he will get indicted at least a couple times i believe. >> we shall see. thank you very much for being on. >> thank you. >> you can catch al guest

hosting "the daily show" on comedy central. senator, thank you. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," several more people with the oeseo keepers are found guiy of conspiracy. nbc's ryan riley has that new reporting. plus a next guest is out withis a brand new guide to mastering change and successfully reinventing how you live, work and lead. we'll have that. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ill disrupt. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin.

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six more members of the oath keepers convicted for the roles in the january 6 insurrection. a federal jury found all of them guilty of entering or remaining in a restricted building and grounds and four found guilty of

conspireing to obstruct an official proceeding. joining us now is nbc news justice reporter ryan riley following the investigation sense the very beginning and the cases specifically. good morning. tell us more about the ratest convictions and how they are different than the previous ones with the oath keepers. >> first two trials can charges of conspiracy. less high profile as a result and the fact that there's an unfolding proud boys trial in the d.c. federal courtroom so you have two competing trials and the second oath keepers seditious conspiracy trial. there's occasions sitting in on the cases and have been the only reporter and only person in the room with so many cases churning

through right now. the individuals three of them, four of them convicted of the top charge of obstruction of an official proceeding. two other individuals who the jury was still deliberating on the top charge for and convicted of the base level charge which is being present on restricted grounds of the u.s. capitol. two individuals that didn't go inside the building but thousands of people outside and that's the case against anyone and to charge thousands of people with that you could because all of them are guilty of that. we might not have a more serious charge. >> so jeh johnson, juries are

returning convictions. stuart rhodes convicted of conspiracy. there are still cases pending against members of the proud boys for conspiracy. very serious charges. >> yes. there's something to be said for investigating and possibly prosecuting not just those that took to the streets and broke into the capitol building but uncited the insurrection. january 6th was the very definition of an insurrection. it is in the national interest that in prosecuting the cases we call it what it was. you know? we read that the special prosecutor is contemplating charges for obstruction of an official proceeding, fraud. this was an insurrection. let's call it what it was and the insurrection statute

punishes not just that participated but those that gave aid and comfort. in investigating former president trump and others around him we do have to call it what it is. it is in the national interest. >> that's what makes this moment dangerous, joe. >> do you know what you call this what we are watching? technical term. i can understand what you don't understand if you are not in television. we call this video. okay? we have a lot of video. and in the post truth world that donald trump inhabits and supporters inhabit and people on cable news television that want to defend him inhabit this video is held by millions and millions of people especially because of social media. if you lie about what happened

on january 6, if you try to redefine it as -- try to redefine, jonathan lemire, saying the weird guy wearing the horns, people trying to say a peaceful guy. boom! couple seconds later. we got reporters like mr. riley saying look at this video. here he is walking through a broken window. that's the thing. they don't understand that in this post truth world that donald trump lives by and that they think they can live by they don't understand that this is just a jim and tammy faye baker scam. at the end of the day he goes back to ptl land and they go to jail. at the end of the day their lives are ruined because they

broke the law and his life just keeps going on because until now donald trump is above the law. make no mistake of it. fox news can try to redefine this any way they want to redefine this. congressmen helping capitol cops from having people break through doors and shoot up the house chamber can lie about it and say that, oh, just tourists. we have got something called video. and it shows still that it was a riot. attempted insurrection. they keep going to jail. so for those who think they will screw with the nypd today, stay on the other side of the bridge. it won't go well. they will go to jail. it is pretty simple. break the law. go to jail. there is no post truth world.

>> going to reichers. >> right? >> pretrial detention. >> reichers. one way ticket to -- somebody said it -- reichers. have a good day. >> over the long bridge. there's the nypd specialized in shows of force and safeguard major events. they will be fine if insurrectionists show up today or tomorrow. there's an effort to downplay by so many on the right. yes, a leading cable news network and top hosts and figures in the republican party. lawmakers with positions of prominence in the republican controlled house of representatives. also sighing on the 2024 campaign trail, potential republican candidates for president ignoring january 6 except for mike pence comments. no one using that as a means to

attack donald trump to say he is not qualified for office. but there is video. this is the most documented crime scene in the history of the united states. that's per the fbi. there's video. there's evidence. they are going to jail. we should note there is an open investigation by jack smith into the role that day, too. coming up, house republicans huddle in florida for the annual retreat. for the third year since he left office donald trump still seems to be the focus. we'll have that new reporting ahead on "morning joe."

as we approach the first presidential election since the

january 6 insurrection we are seeing shadows of a far right political movement from the past. our next guest has a look at how the john birch society teachings are being mirrored in the trump maga movement and joining us now george washington university professor ma knew dallek, author of "birchers." joe, i can't imagine better timing for this book. >> it is fascinating. there's an ebb and flow. when ronald reagan first started campaigning in 1966 john bircher sported him and he was told to distance himself and he came out with a pithy statement. something along the lines of if they support me they have to support my views.

matthew, when i was running in 1994 there was still john birchers around. they were sort of kept as arm's length the same way reagan did. they were still there in republican politics. i think the biggest difference is the door is open unto them and having a much bigger impact than in quite sometime. >> you know, the thing i'm so struck by is the first 40, 50 minutes of your show much of what we heard from ron desantis, donald trump, other leaders of the republican party strikes a birch key. the conspiracyism. this idea of a george soros plot. right? a jewish international figure. the kind of nativism and isolationism we have seen come atop the gop. a lot of these ideas are from the john birch society why they

still -- the birchers still exist as an organization. not many are left. not like the 1960s when they were the epitome. now it is maga. >> the interesting thing, too, is i should have focused on this in the past five six years but they would have these grand sweeping conspiracy theories and it would be international jewish bankers like ron desantis is talking about now but surrounding it all is a fear of the communists but the deeper when you push back like on the trump conspiracy theories, wait a second. we are pushing back on communism and won the cold war. and then they say, well, yes, but the united states is part of the conspiracy along with the

communists, the deep state. workinging with -- wait a second now. so we fought a war against communism for a generation. we beat them. they're in total collapse but somehow we are conspireing -- you get the idea. none of it made any sense. i was like okay. now let me talk about banning offshore oil drilling, everybody. >> they are hard to follow. the conspiracy is robert welch's idea that dwight eisenhower, a war hero, a general a dedicated agent of the communist conspiracy. that, of course, offended not just liberals but many republicans at the time. you know? how do you get from eisenhower

to communism? the thing about the conspiracy theories is that they're very adaptable. right? pliable. when the cold war ended what you see are people like ron paul adapting versions and weaving them. ron paul, for example, spun this theory about a north american union that george bush conspireing for a north american union like the european union and george bush rejected that. he said i have seen this rodeo show before. they want you to refute the conspiracy theory but i'm not playing that game. it's impossible to refute. the theories are so bizantine.

they spin it into something unrecognizable. coming up, alpine skier mikaela shiffrin is our guest ahead. "morning joe" is back in a moment. the promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union. will you join us? call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today.

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new book called ç■"next, the por of reinvention in life and chief content officer at ganet. ie1 love this for so many reaso. let's talk about the timing. it's always great timing for a book like this. lik why ñinow? >> absoly utely. mika.than it's great to be here. you're in the book. >> i appreciate it. >> it's a guide to navigating change in how we ñrlive,çó how work, how we lead. i literally wrote it for this moment ine1 time, because after this pastçó tumult s few years w we are looking for that newc normal, reprioritizing, rethinking our careers, looking for more meaning in our careers and our lives.r what i really want to do is

empower people to feel like it's okay to change, to give them tools to navigate change in thi uncertain time. >>lp and we're working longer io our lives. >> we are. it's especially relevant now. we are no longer in a sort 40-yearr now it's going to be a 60-year career path.ath. it's a whole other ball game.gae room for reinventing our careers multiple times. >> you go through examples of people who have made that there are many different road maps. you have alan r others. incredible examples. >> ied had so much fun reportin this book.

some of the people you will recognize. some aj not but have equally remarkable stories. alan green span is one of my favorites. he started out as a professional jazz saxophone player. >> that's amazing. >> i had interviewed him a while back. he had actually told me. he walked me through how as he was a professional jazz player during thepr breaks, he would d his ñibandmates' taxes. he started looking forward to the breaks more than he did the actual performance.e james patterson is another one e love. i met him when i was a very v young "wall street journal" "wa reporter. he was anst advertising executi and a struggling writer. i asked him to walk me through how hek got from there to bein this mega selling author. >>se i love how the message is e men and women.çó

>> absolutely. >> i love that you're speaking to everybody on this. strategies for success, i love o these. move before you move. what do you t(mean? >> it's so fascinating that almost everyone i spoke to who k had a major transition actuallyt started on that path long before they even realized it. if you change your career, for example, it might have been liki a side hustle or a hobby or just añi random interest. peoplefá generally don't necessarily know where they're going to transition to, but their interests are taking them there already. >> image your possible self. >> i love this.xde if you think about whoxd you mit be, could be, want to be, it's the first step, but it's notlp enough to think about it.t you actually have to take action. you want to writee it down. share it with another person or

take action like a course or shadow someone on their job. >> i'm jumping around, but i love the last two. take a break and create aw3 cv failure. i'ver it's like a scroll. it would roll out onto the he floor. >> the cv of failure is basically you are taking every job you didn't get, every assignment that went wrong and make a list of it. i first of all, it makes you feel better because everybodyw3 fail. also it gives you data.u i spoke to a scientist who created a cv of failure. she said it taught her all the things she tried and showed her all the ways she was failing. she's a biology. she realized she was failing in the lab but succeeding with

computational biology. it made her shift her career r r i love this idea of an expert an expert companion isúú■#■ ter from trauma psychologists. it is the person who can seel■ u objectively, who can look at you and say these areçó■strengths y have, this is progress you've the cfóm thing about this is so often the6z best strengths are innate and we don't even realizv we have enthem. it's great to have someone to /e■#lect them backom to you. >> thank you very much forba ha coming on. congratulations on the book.he it's amazing. "morning joe" continues at the top of ourinue fourth hour u kúd'=ñnoú■g■ntrh ,■ trump. we'll be right back. ctf former t trump. we'll be right back.

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there's los angeles this morning. it's 6:00 on the west coast, 9:07b hour. donald trump is responding to a possible indictment inó[ manhatn withc defiant anxv dark message on his social media platform. we'll getpáu caught up on the latest developments in the case. also ahead, andrewñi weissm is here to explain why charging trump is required by the rule of

you look at the gdp of the nations supporting ukraine. you combine the u.s. gdp with europe's gdp. that's massive. that more than doubles china's. it's massive. you add japan, australia and other countries, you'ree1 talki about $50 trillion in gdp. china is sitting at $17 trillion, having trouble with their lpeconomy. they have to be able to trade with europe. they have to grow their trade relations with all of the countries, the industrialized nations that are supporting

ukraine.xd so them leaning harder and harder on russia doesn't make economic sense. that's why i don't buy that they're going all in. i think xi has to push him toward peace. i think this is whatc it's all about. when you'reñr trying to get an ally out of the corner, this is probably what it looks like. i tell you who's not an ally, though, one of vladimir putin's admirers, d!v ld trump. ron desantis.xd yesterday you talk about damning with faint praise. this is more like damning with a left hook and a pat on the back when he started talking about donald trump and porn stars.b. poor ron just not+ knowing what that's like. do we have that nbclip, tj? you're loading it right now.

tj is getting the betamax. >> now it's getting all tangled up. >> you put the pencil in it and twirl it. it'll wind it back. we do have thefá beta tape now. this is florida governor ron desantis talking about a potential indictment of donald trump in manhattan. here's what he said. >> i don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged rnt(r). i can't speak to that. >> joe, he just can't speak to i that. he's not an authority. >>q no. >> some people eat popcorn while this is going on. >> joe, get him off. he's eating granola. chuck from maine sends us gra

granola. let me give ever1bt"y a lesson in what's going on here. i'm telling tj to take joe off the screen. >> oh boy, this isn't fair. >> tj. >> joe, what do i do? >> ñrtj. >> it's "morning joe." we got the tj cam.i] thank you, tj. i need popcorn to watch this fight between desantis and trump, because desantis, you know, he tells that as a defense of donald trump. the audience laughs. q' heq goes on and goes down thei] checklist, oh, political persecution, jewish international bankers, all the anti-semite garbage republicans spew out of their mouth any time donald trump gets in trouble. but really, no doubt about it,

he started with a left hook to trum ñ, politically. >> yeah. he led with his line. probably got with his advisors and said it's probably time i say something about this. he's been under pressure to speak out against the d.a. alvin bragg. notably he started out mocking donald trump and the substance of this potential indictment, before turningok to an attack o alvin bragg. governor desantis is not alone in republicans going afterq the manhattan district attorney right çónow. garrett haake is in downtown manhattan. >> reporter: today is the day donald trump predicted over the weekend he would beup2 arrested. it has;c happened yet. according to sources, it's highly unlikely an indictment will come down today. anticipation is continuing to

build down here about the q first-ever indictment of a president. on the brink of a possible criminal indictment by a manhattan grand jury, former president trump remaining defiant, weighing in overnight on truth social. >> our enemies are desperate to stop us because they know we are the only ones who can stop them. >> reporter: in a new video lashing out at manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, now wrapping up his investigation of mr. trump's alleged effort to keep an extramarital affair a secret by paying hush money to adult film actress stormy daniels. >> i'm the only thing standing between the american extreme and ñt( chaos. >> reporter: grand jurors heard testimony from michael cohen, alleging mr. trump gave him $130,000 in 2016 to buy daniels' the former president has denied any wrongdoing.

on monday, cohen's form legal advisor robert costello was asked to testify at the request of mr. trump's legal team, blasting cohen's credibility. >> if they want to go after donald trump and they have solid evidence, so be it, but michael cohen is far from solid evidence. >> reporter: his response? >> the district attorney has the documentation to validate every single statement i've made. >> reporter: in lower manhattan, law enforcement officials are bracing for possible charges against mr. trump, increasing security around the d.a.'s office. florida governor ron desantis taking a dig at bragg. >> that's an example of pursuing a political agenda. i don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star toñr secure silence over?;ñi soe of alleged affair, i can't speak to that. >> reporter: house republicans launching an investigation of bragg's investigation,c thoughç

democrats say congress has no jurisdiction over a local d.a. >> president trumpçó announced was going to run for president again. suddenly now they're coming after him for some allegedfá bookkeeping error? you've got to be kidding me. >> reporter: the manhattan d.a.'s office the former president continues tow3 hammerçó michael cohen on social media, trying to undercut his credibility. he just posted talking about cohen had asked him multiple times forjf presidential pardon on çóunrelated issues. it's very clear this investigation isçó top of mind r theq former president, though i let's bring in andrew weissman, the former general counsel to the fbi and lead prosecutor in

office. greatçó to see you. i want to ta-k about the specifics of your piece inxd ju a moment. how do you see things playinge1 out downtown? do you suspect an indictment is coming? >> yes, i do. you have the trip team asking somebody to testify yesterday. i don't think you would have the defense team making a presentation to the d.a. to avoid a prosecution. you have michael cohen going in. all ofw3 these things are thing that would becomew3 very public very quickly. the idea that's happening without alvin bragg making a decision toi] go forward seemse pretty remote. the grand jury does have to make a decision here and vote anú indictment. remember, the standard is just probable cause. it is not the standard of trial, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. the grand jury apparently sits

mondays and wednesday. if there was not an indictment yesterday, which byok all accous is the case, one has to think1u it's going to be tomorrow. >> andrew, let's say that happens and the grand qeqy reaches a conclusion for indictment tomorrow. what are the next steps in the process?çó how and when does donald trump get notified? how and when does he surrender? give us the rundown. >> sure. one of the unusual aspects in a state case is new york only has jurisdiction to seize somebody when they're in new york. if somebody is not in new york, that person either can voluntarily surrender to the charges o2ñá they have to beçó extradited. we're hearing that donald trump would actuallyq voluntarily surrender and not go through the somewhat lengthy process of extraditing him fromñi florida. in terms of the process of notifying him as soon as the

grand jury indicts, you could imagine the d.a.'s office is going to call the defense team. then it will be worked out as to how exactly the former president is going to come up here. he has secret service protection. presumably there will be a bail package worked out so he is not going to do jail time yet. that could wait untilñr a trial and if there is a conviction. then people should be ready for the fact that if there are charges, it could take quite some time to bring a case to trial. one benchmark for people to think about is the trump organizationxd trials that happened this past october where mr. weisselberg,e1 his former chief financial officer, was also convicted. that took 16 months toeiitz to trial between the time of indictment and those cases going to trial. so you reallyçó shouldn't expec if there are charges, that there's going to be a trial any time soon. there's a lot of process for

which a defendant is entitled to time to okprepare, to make motions, to review discovery. so people should really understand even though there could be an indictment, which would be obviously unprecedented, there won't be a ó)sq soon. >> andrew, i'm so glad you wrote the piece. tell me what you think as somebody who spent their lives dedicated to pursuing the rule of law. let's forget about the republicans. what do you think about the liberal hosts on media who are trying to prove they're down with the trump votee1 and they what kind of message does that

send and how does that make you feel as an officer of the court? >> i think there's two partsç'u that. one is criminal justice is somewhat messy in that if there are different prosecutorsçó looking at potential crimes for the former president, and yes, you could say in an ideal world you'd like to see the january 6th prosecutions go first because çóthey're the most serious, then maybe mar-a-lago daniels hush payments would be - third in severity. but that's not how lifeçó works. also, people should be patien r because all of those may, in fact, be happening. to your larger point, if the crime that manhattan is thinking of charging and eventually w

the reason we wrote this op-ed for the "new york times" is to basically go through otherjf charges that have been brought againstó[ other people to say, u know what, donald trump is not going to be treated any better or worse than other people who have faced similar charges, so let's hold peopleçó to the sameç willie, i just want to circle back. we were talking about desantis and him going after donald trump. i just think it's fascinating. you file this under how stupid

do these republican leaders think republicans are? donald trump goes, i am the only one standing between you and anarchy. donald trump sayingt( he's the yes. donald trump is saying if you hold me accountable to the law, then i'm the only one standing between you and ñianarchy. this was all trump.ñi

if he announces, why would he announce early? i guess he'd announce early so he could say when he's going to get prosecuted, oh, they're only doing this for political reasons. jim jordan knows that.çó very insulting for the republican base jim jordan thinks republicans are that stupid and donald trump thinks

republicans are that stupid but they do. >> the]k remain loyal foot soldiers. you had members ofw3 the house elise steph nick saying in an interview ron desantis will suffer for his attack on donald trump, the attack being heñi pointed out the porn star hush money payment. how dare he go after donald trump. that's where they are. they're there to defend him. they're going to investigate or at least attemptok to investiga the investigators,jf calling aln bragg perhaps next week if they can get him there to testify and explain himself in an active investigation, jonathan lemire. we knowçó who they are. this is who they've been for the last six and seven years and they will continue to protect donald trump. >> we know who they are. they know better. they're doing itzv anyway. trump did jump in early for this campaign. after republicansçó suffered the

midterm losses, there were some who said to him,çóxd you shouldd wait, you should wait. he went in any way. just a few days after it was clear the democrats were going to control the senate and only lose the house by a couple of seats. that was one of the motivations, was to be a declared candidate so that would complicate theseñ investigations. he didn't do anything for months. he sat there and didn't r his campaign, but it was important to him that it be launched. joining us is congressional correspondent for the "new york times" annie carney live from florida where republicans are gathered for their annual caucus retreat. talk of trump and desantis dominate the landscape. give us a sense of what republicans are saying. >> reporter: this is the third year in a row this republican retreat, which they hold every year in florida, has beenw3 dominated by trump even though

they want to talk about immigraáuon, parents bill of rights, the fiscal crisis they think they can solve before the end of the year. instead, it's trump. in the middle of this retreat, kevin mccarthy authorized three committee chairman to launch an investigation intolp an active criminal inquiry. he sort of spins it back ont( u every time he talks to us here saying we're talking about other things. the fact ok the matter is they took an extraordinary measure smack in the middle of their retreat to protect him and to try and undermine this investigation on his behalf. i have also talked to some republicans here who had been on the fence between trump andñr desantis. florida congresswoman luna had been loyal to them both. desantis campaigned with her andçóó[ endorsed her. she came out and vociferously endorsed trump yesterday, kind of indicating the+ braggçó inqu

pushed hernb off the sidelines choose sides because she found it to appalling. i haven't heard a single voice here who hasn'tóy9 on the talking point that this is a soros-funded political d.a. one notable thing is two years ago this retreat was ñidefined liz cheney speaking out against trump and the divisions in the republican conference caused by that. theúu((sq thing here two years later is trump is still defining the discourse. there's just no liz cheney or no there's just no liz cheney or no one 0'aking out against it.xdfá

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