the first woman of color to create, right, and star in a primetime sitcom. she empowers a new generation to tell the stories with their own reverence and sincerity. gladys knight, who i am crazy about with music. gladys, as i have said before. you are truly one of the best things to ever happen to music. i am a fan. [applause] and speaking of good things and music, the bosses here! [crowd chanting] the bosses here! back on tour, approaching -- 3000 concerts around the world. let me father, i have sinned. [laughter] burris, some people are just born to run man. [laughter] colson whitehead, one of the first and only novelist to win

the polson prize for back-to-back work. how did you do that? pretty good man. i'm trying to go back to back myself. [laughter] [applause] >> and on that note, i wish you a good night. i am symone taylor townsend in for stephanie ruhle. across all the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late! >> at the start of 2018, the wall street journal broke the story about the alleged hush money payments to stormy daniels coordinated by michael cohen to buy her silence over an alleged sexual encounter with donald trump. the manhattan district attorney at the time, a man named vyvanse, before and an investigation after the journal book that news. cohen, trump supporter merv -- to campaign finance violations, then went before congress at the beginning of 2019 and he threw the gates wide open. cohen not only

revealed new details about how much direct involvement in the hush money scheme, but he also dropped this bombshell. >> mr. trump. is a cheat. as previously stated, i am giving to the committee today three years of mr. trump's personal financial statements, from 2011, 2012 and 2013. it was my experience that mr. trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes. such as trying to be listed amongst the will fierce people in forbes, and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes. >> that -- not only caught the attention of the manhattan da -- it also caught the attention of the brand-new -- letitia james. few weeks after mr. cohen's testimony, reports broke that a g james had opened

a civil investigation into cohen's claims that trump and the trump fraudulently inflated and deflated his assets to obtain favorable loans and reduce the tax -- respectively. it wasn't just the hush money payments anymore, the scope of the inquiry at widened. for his part, the manhattan da five vance, he brought a note his criminal investigation beyond those hush money payments as well. he is not going to include those same allegations of fraud. michael cohen went to federal prison for the hush money payment, vyvanse made the trump organizations broader in shorts and bank fraud the central focus of his investigation. and according to reports, the men had included that there was enough evidence to obtain an indictment and conviction on trump's fraudulent business practices. on january 1st, 2022, a new district attorney took office unnamed alvin bragg, mr. brag decided to refocus his offices efforts on the stormy daniels

hush money payment. the investigation into trump's alleged fraudulent business practices, was reportedly pushed to the side. meanwhile, the new york attorney general sprawling three year long investigation culminated in her office filing a sweeping 200 and $50 million several lawsuit from new york state about donald trump and his three adult children, and his business. that lawsuit which accuses trump, his family, and their business of staggering fraud, that was filed this past september and it is slated to go to trial later this year. and that is how we got here today. where donald trump find himself in the middle to massive investigations for prosecutors in his home state, which will both second motion at the same time. these two big cases are now at the front burner and they both have the same beginning. they're both now coming to a head. this morning, in lower manhattan, donald trump's attorneys were in court seeking to delay the start of the 250 million dollar

civil lawsuit brought by a. g. james. trump employed his standard tactic when it comes to legal battles he can't make disappear, this is delayed, lay, delay. but before the hearing in that case can get underway, it was delayed. indeed. after reported bomb threat was called in the courthouse. after the security threat was clear, the hearing went on as planned. not the -- trump was looking for. things did not go as planned for the former president. the judge in that case said that this case is complex but it is not complicated. and he concluded that this proposed october 2nd trial date is quote, written in stone. which is pretty final. and it was definitely a blow to trump's legal team today. meanwhile, on mr. brags hush money case, the whole money remains -- indictment watch. the grand jury is slated to meet tomorrow in manhattan and we have reports that an indictment could potentially come as early as tomorrow. as in, the day after this one. and that reportedly, the grand jury

is set to hear tomorrow, the grand jury's reportedly, the grandeur essential martha here from at least one more witness. now, that reporting is not confirmed by nbc news, but nbc new york reports that the nypd sent the memo today mandating that all police officers wear uniforms and prepare for deployment ahead of a possible trump indictment. this comes as reports have been trickling in the past few days of law enforcement at every level reportedly preparing for that indictment. and manhattan grand jury is slated to meet tomorrow. and donald trump's legal headaches are, it seems, coming front and center from every possible angle. joining us now are suzanne craig, investigative reporter for the new york times and one of the league reporters in the times pulitzer prize investigation into trump's princes, also with this is rebecca right fee, a former assistant da in the manhattan district attorney's office. thank you so much for being here, there are not two better people here, to break this all down with. thank you

for coming. let me just, craig, when you trace back the humble origins of all this, the 2018 what street journal story that, talked about hush money payments to porn star in the way in which that moment set in motion, is kind of cataclysmic large investigations into trump to where we find ourselves now on the eve of what may be a really explosive moment for donald trump and the trump organization. you knew this man and his organization quite well, from your reporting. did you expect that that would be the straw, as it were, that would break the camel's back. >> i think you never expect what it will be, i think you never expect what will be the fault and these things, and they come up on you. so i didn't think all of this was going to come from that. but i am not surprised. and i actually think that the

valuation case, i think it is a much more threatening case legally, for him. yes the civil case coming forward to go to trial and, in the fall in october, and it is not a dead case for the manhattan da. they can still move forward with it. >> when you say it isn't that case, i want both of your thoughts on this, is it your expectation, it is hard to watch, i'm sure it is hard for vance to watch, the a. g., letitia james, moves forward with this massive civil case that in many ways has its -- alongside the the vance -- hasn't come to fruition. it doesn't mean it is over but it has been, a piece of it is moving forward, the hush money payment. you think it is maybe still alive? >> -- i think right now what they are doing, it is yet another piece of it which is, allen weisselberg is sitting at rikers. he is due out april 19th, he is doing time for crimes that had to do with the

case that they have a guilty verdict with, few cooperated but he has definitely been notified by -- he is facing potential charges to do with something that came out of the eternal henry's -- misrepresentations for financial means to two shuns. and that story broke same week that we heard about the fact that there was a grandeur area panel, lash many case. not a lot of people heard about it. so he is facing potential charges. very serious that it is going to be -- five months at rikers. that is very serious time. the question, i think, right now and we are sort of waiting, we don't know yet but will he ultimately cooperate? he has cooperated so far. you wonder how far that goes. what he is facing, israel prison time, if he does decide i'm going to cooperate rather than -- if the chargers become real,

that they are threatening him with, and they notified him about. he could cooperate, and in that case, it could revive it. i think right now the manhattan da, alvin bragg, put a lot on this case. and a lot of the work that has been done, the valuation the is there, they lost key lawyers over a fight about this, they could revive it. i think right now, a lot hinges on where allen weisselberg will go. >> if you talk about, i wonder if you think it is an overstatement to say that the reason that alvin bragg case is as circumscribed as it is and because they couldn't get out, -- people who don't remember who allan weisselberg is, he is a chief financial officer of the trump organization. he's a key player in all of this. and at every juncture in this investigation it comes up on this show frequently, there is the question, will it flip weisselberg? is this enough to flip weisselberg? can they get the cooperation?

the so seem to need in order to preserve our broader fraud case. do you think he is the reason that the case is where it is now? more focused on hush money payments when fraud? >> i think that fraud trial would have been extremely hard to bring without an insider testifying about the former president and his involvement in his state of mind, so i do think, of course this is the speculation but i think the disagreement happened between those lawyers who left the office, and alvin bragg, it had to be around the strength of the case in the ability of the office to prove intent without a cooperating witness. so i do think it could furiously change the calculation, if they had weisselberg on their side building that case. and i think this case is a simpler, more straightforward case and that is why they are bringing it. >> i don't know if this is going to fit interest meant that this is a -- a lot of -- circles, about just how quick and this is in. order to make it a felony it can't be one crime. it needs to effectively be to. cooking the books, to put it in layman's terms, and then with the intent to commit

another crime. is that fairly accurate? >> right. i would put it as more straightforward, i didn't say simple, i actually, from the perspective of someone who has tried cases involving these particular statutes and has charged cases involving these particular statutes, there is always that difficulty, but it doesn't seem like an insurmountable difficulty, as opposed to proving intent in a case in which the industry practice and real estate is to pray around with valuations. it makes it so, so hard and it makes it much more suited to a civil case. that is unless you have someone on the inside saying, here's the smoking gun. and there is no way they had that. so i really do think it could change. alvin bragg's consistently saying we have that k still open, so if this fact, if this new information about weisselberg and his potential criminal exposure is enough to change his mind about

what he wants to talk about, and i think that case could very much be a lot. >> i do wonder, suzanne craig, weather, you know we talk about the specifics of this case and what may have been covered up. a lot of people think the case that the da's building around the sort of, not keeping the write books on the hush money payment, with the intent to commit campaign finance violations. >> the new york times floats this, your paper floats this improved, something to think about. i will read an expert. the public understanding of the theory of the case being assembled by alvin bragg and in particular, while underlying crime he may appoint to in order to transform new york law against bookkeeping fraud into a felony, that remains imprecise. it remains possible that brag has obtained non public evidence of some other intended offense like if there was any initial intention to deduct payments as a business expense on state tax returns. now without getting too wonky

about this -- >> i thought about this for a long time. why are you creating false business record? to what end is it? it is usually a tax deduction. so did they find out that the payment turned into a tax deduction and it would allow him, so the text mantle of him to -- régis -- >> tax burden. which is something they did a lot at the -- >> he saw this movie at the trial. it is a recent trump organization trial. so that happened. you have to wonder why they would create a false business record. michael cohen, we don't see, the new york times has his -- we don't see ten 99 painted minutes, which is how illegal fee would be accounted for. we don't see them going to him. there's no direct line where they filed this to the tax man. but there could be a lot of other ways to do it. rudy giuliani made a

cryptic remark that it was somehow put into legal fees somewhere. and this could be an office party for all we know. we just don't know. the alvin bragg may know, which is what may come out. there's a lot we don't know right now, this is what we will learn of the indictment goes forward. this is one of the things that has been -- >> the campaign violence violation the, with the case is built, that is the way, it bears remarkable similarity to the case that was brought against john edwards in 2010 i, think it was, over hush money payments regarding an extramarital affair he had. i will read an excerpt from the washington post. the lawyers would question whether we'll be rise to -- payments given, particularly given the outcome of past cases against edwards, the presidential candidates beat to criminal charges -- extra medical -- illegal campaign contribution. by the way those payments were made by donors. and they told, they were 1 million dollars. on its face that seems like, i am a lehman, a play lure on tv but i don't of illegal education, quite on obviously and it feels like that if, that failed in court -- he hesitated case than

the one brag maybe building if. in fact it is about campaign violation. >> we don't know the details. i'm not exactly sure whether it would be a tighter case. sounds like it was more money in new was coming from external sources that doesn't make it a stronger case necessarily. but i do think there are some problems about building that case, there are some difficulties. certainly it would be much more straightforward if there were tax implications here. and that could be the secondary crime. and that is often charged with falsification of business records to bump it up from that misdemeanor to a felony. because, as suzanne was saying, why do people create false business records? >> yeah. it would be a more straightforward one, more clear case for the jury. it wouldn't one into the complications of coming into federal law in state law and that sort of

legal complication. >> we will obviously find out about that. i do want to talk about this james investigation. it is not this. talk about, the hush plenty, thing comes with its own peril because their potential -- historical criminality. the history of it all. but watch, what you see is the most threatening part of the laetitia james investigation in terms of penalties, if he was found guilty? >> money 200 and $50 million. most of his businesses habitually lose money year in and year out but this is a huge amount of money. she's also going after, he wants, there are terms about this, she wants to run him out of new york. this is what she is seeking. she wants to limit the loans that he can make. how he can do business in new york. there is a list of things she wants to make sure that there are never officers -- it would be devastating. and it looks like

it is marching forward. in october didn't get the delay today. >> it was written in stone, that data in october. >> how does trump's, how are his businesses these days? >> for the most part they continue to lose money. he is putting in money to prop a lot of them up. and that is not a new story. that has been going on for decades. but it can no longer go on. these are expensive properties that he owns. he is having to prop them up. they don't make money. he gets money from one or two ventures. but most of them lose money. >> some would say that is being a bad businessman. >> yeah. >> suzanne craig, rebecca rosy, thanks for joining me tonight. really appreciate your time. still to come this evening, the potential rest of the former president, it's weird to say that, trump is rallying his base with racist antisemitic

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>> did you know that the tabloids in the national enquirer ran op-eds? i didn't. but back in august of 2015, the national enquirer was the paper for candidate donald trump when he laid out for divisions of the white house. an op-ed rents between the story about a country singer, reba mcentire's divorce, and the column called hollywood hookups about which stars or smooching and in case you are wondering, nick jonas recovered quickly from his june split with olivia couple, and

is now experiencing a new reality. dating kendall jenner. a lot of change since then. nick jonas is now married to sophie turner, oh no, priyanka chopra. that's true jonas. and donald trump won from a reality star facing op-eds in the national enquirer to becoming the actual president of the united states. we now know that trump's relationship with the national enquirer was more sinister than then just sort of ridiculous. that same month of the op-ed, august of 2015, trump had a meeting with the publisher of the inquirer, david pecker, which the new york times reports that pecker promised to publish positive stories but trump negative stories about his opponent. cover stories like hillary six, months to live and hillary, going to jail. those stories ran in the month after that meeting. but most importantly, at that august 2015 meeting, the publisher of the inquirer agreed to work with trump's personal lawyer, michael cohen,

to suppress stories that could damage trump., which was a practice known as catch and kill. as we are all currently awaiting the likely first indictment of a former president, the first in u.s. history, it is worth taking a step back and remember how absolutely tawdry this story appears to be. the adult film actress stormy daniels was past donald trump's age when she said they met into thousand six at a celebrity golf tournament in lake tahoe. trump's wife melania had just given birth to the couple son of humans earlier, so she stayed home and trump whistle oh. daniels claims that trump invited her, we only knew as a porn star he had just met, to her hotel penthouse where he greeted her in black silk pajamas. that is what trump was wearing. then she claims he promised her that he could get her on his reality tv show the apprentice. and then, this up together. after that, trump reportedly called

daniels occasionally from a blocked number, referring to as honey bunch when he did. she says they met up two more times. once at the launch party for trump vodka, and another timeout beverly hills hotel where daniels claimed trump again invited her up to his room, but when she got there, they just watched shark week on tv. and this whole story has always been juicy, but originally it was tabloids truthfully, not new york times juicy. the first time stormy daniels tried to sell the story was in 2011. she was upset the tang trump promised together on the prentiss never came true in trump was just thinking of the idea he might run for president. at the time, it was so observed admitting that it was literally a punchline. >> donald trump's been saying that he will run for president of republicans, which is surprising since i didn't think he was running as a joke. >> he is not laughing there. but by the time trump would be the actual nominee for

president in 2016, he was no longer punchline. after the excess -- account of black silk pjs and pen pals, that became supercharged with the potential to be a real political scandal. the plan trump hatched with the publisher of the inquirer, that plane went into action. trump lawyer michael cohen about the story. he caught it and he killed it. and trump allegedly paid cohen back for that to the tune of $130,000. you could argue that we would not be where we are right now, awaiting a possible criminal indictment of donald trump, had not been for the dog reporting of key journalists at the law street journal. michael rust belt and joe powell zola are the first reporters to break the story of michael cohen arranging the 130,000 dollar hush money payment to stormy daniels in 2018. -- team at the journal that worked at several more scoops of the payment to daniels and karen mcdougal a former playboy model who allege

she was also having an affair with donald trump. they earned a pulitzer prize in 2018 for that reporting. they also cowrote the fixtures, bottom feeders, crooked lawyers, gossip mongers and porn stars who created the 45th president. joining us now is one of those journalists, michael rust belt, who was now an investigative reporter for the new york times. thank you so much for joining me. and for chronicling the insanity of this moment in such a compelling way. i would love to know, as we look at this magnitude of what maybe on deck ahead of us, whether this really all begins with a porn star who is angry about not getting a cameo on the and prentice. can you take me back to what was happening and how this dynamic was established between this, this combative dynamic that eventually works its way over to the national enquirer between stormy joint daniels in donald trump? >> sure. and yes, i think it does. starting daniels is a

porn star pitcher is also an ambitious woman. she had aspirations. she wasn't just acting in porn films she was also directing them. and she appeared in mainstream movies, had cameos. so when donald trump invites her they meet by chance at this golf tournament, and invites her to his room and she sleeps with him. but this promise to put it on the apprentice is meaningful to her. it is sort of, she sees as an opportunity. and then when he, she said he doubted he would actually do it, but he said i can absolutely do it. and then he didn't. and she felt taken advantage of. and she wanted to get something out of it. to make up for the fact that she slept with him and she felt a little bit duped. >> what surprised me, i think a lot of people don't realize is that there were communications beyond that night in the hotel room. there were first of all, shark week at the beverly hills

hotel there or the phone calls that trump is placing to stormy daniels. and then she eventually it is the want to start screening the calls and not taking them. but, is that evidence of her frustration within? or was evidence of his, the fact that he was taken with her? how do you read that strange dynamic? >> he liked her. he obviously gave her tickets to a beauty pageant that she attended. he was there but they didn't speak. he invited her to a trump backup party launch which -- also at this golf tournament. so he was maintaining these various relationships, according to these women stories which he denied. but she, they did have, they kept talking about the apprentice. eventually he did tell her that he wasn't going to get her on. and i believe there was another porn actress who may have been on the apprentice -- >> you would have to ask someone who watched the apprentice. i am not in that

vast, vast number of people unfortunately. the promise is, trump's want to make promises, regardless of whether or not he keeps them. the story ratchets up in terms of the potential illegality once michael cohen enters the picture. he of course is potentially the star witness in the da's investigation, as we set right now. i would love to know about how you see his reliability as a narrator. baptist l o, who is representing trump land in all of this, came out today in a pretty public way and fueled michael cohen's credibility, and he was actually, do we have a picture? he was holding a copy of your book as evidence, first of all, insanely good book promotion, but as evidence of the fact that michael cohen couldn't be trusted. what you make of michael cohen as a key witness in all of this? >> i think he is a problematic witness because he has lied. he lied to congress about a trump hotel in moscow that he was

trying to build, he pleaded guilty to that. he committed these crimes and then admitted to them, although he is recanting some of the stuff. so he hasn't been 100 percent truthful. that is something that trump's lawyers are going to be able to, assuming he's indicted, if there ever come to trial, they will absolutely be able to attack michael cohen's credibility and have concrete examples. does that mean he's not telling the truth now? no. it doesn't mean that. there is a lot of supporting evidence. there is the picture of them together. there is the fact that he did all of those things on trump's behalf. so there is some corroborating behavior that could show michael cohen to be telling the truth. and bob crystal also, he is the giuliani -- so he is basically trumps surrogate in that situation. so i wouldn't take him if he's value either. >> after askew. how speaker kevin riccardi today suggested trump wasn't trying to hide his payments to stormy daniels.

from your reporting, we know that michael cohen first of all took out a home equity line of credit, he transferred money from that line of quite it into a delaware shell company that he created and then was wire to stormy daniels's lawyers and then wire to stormy daniels. is that right? >> that more seems like something who is trying to -- >> ridiculous to say that he wasn't trying to hide the payment to her. was it difficult to track down those payments? as you were doing the reporting? >> yes. well, we have good boo-booed, we didn't get records about the actual payments at the time but we had multiple sources about what happened. and we feasted together. we found the shell company. and we were able to report that michael cohen paid her hundred 30, 000, and it was, it was painstaking reporting, but we felt very confident. >> maybe kevin mccarthy should get a copy of your book. >> i will send him one.

>> michael rust belt, you want to pulitzer prize for and that is why, you did the work. really, really appreciate you having on the show tonight. thanks for time. trump is back this evening with the old playbook, calling the bachmann who may be prosecuting him a racist. we are going to unpack all that coming up next. hey bud. wow. what's all this?

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racist prosecutors do anything

wrong or illegal, i hope we are going to have in this country, the biggest protests that we have ever had in washington d.c., in new york, in atlanta and elsewhere, because our country and our elections are corrupt. in reality, they are not after me, there after you, and i just happen to be the first person that is in the way. that is what thereafter. it has been going on for years. >> in january 2022, judges in fulton county, georgia, that is where atlanta's, they granted district attorney fani willis permission to empanel -- a special grand jury investigate former president donald trump's efforts to overturn the states 2020 election results. and so, trump singled her out. he singled out prosecutors in new york and d. c. as well. repeatedly calling them vicious, and racist. although he did not name them, he seemed, in that rally, to referred to manhattan da, alvin bragg, no york

attorney general english tissue james and former washington d. c. attorney general carl racy in addition to fani willis. now, there are two things that those folks all have in common. they are prosecutors investigating trump, and all of them are black. the remarks trump may during that rally prompted fulton county da willis to request additional security from the fbi's atlanta office. that was not the last time trump leveled similar accusations against those same prosecutors. in september, when new york a. g. james filed a lawsuit against trump, his businesses, and his adult children for financial fraud, trump lashed out at her once again. he called her lawsuit another witch hunt by a racist attorney general. and he nicknamed her attorney general letitia peekaboo james, term that many pointed out, some similar to a derogatory term used against black people. earlier this month, trump referred to willis has the racist extract attorney in atlanta. there's a clear pattern here. an investigation into his alleged crimes is advancing and he feels his back is against the wall, trump

calls the black government lawyer in charge of the estimation a racist and he says that they are out to get him. he says it will not stop there. block government prosecutors are going to come for you to. so do something. that is a trump play. and it is one we saw him on this weekend. he announced in all caps diatribe that he expected to be arrested in new york today as part of a manhattan da, alvin bragg,'s investigation into hush money payments. trump told his supporters that they should protest, take our nation, back and he wrote, we just can't allow this anymore. they are killing our nation as we sit back and watch. trump follow that up by calling brag a thorough, racist and reverse. in case of definitions of we and they and racists are not clear enough, trump released this video yesterday. >> george soros, funded

democrat alvin bragg is known as the worst da in the country. his soft crime policies have unleashed violent criminals on citizens, and turned new york into a health escape of crime, drugs, and chaos. >> and the only thing standing between the american dream, and total anarchy. madness and chaos. that's what it is, i am representing you. i'm just here. always remember, that they are coming after me because i am fighting for you. that is what is happening. >> it is hard to say with certainty what being a soros funded racist means in donald trump's head. but there are some of the far-right we might see this as trump signaling that the bogeyman george source is somehow out to get them. whether or not that, is what trump means to say, the danger here lies and how it is being interpreted by his followers. that is something to watch. one right-wing broadcaster took trump's remarks about who is

racist and who is a criminal, he took a step further yesterday. >> the criminals in this country, if you want them held accountable, the criminals are barack obama, eric holder, susan rice, military,. join us put all of us put them be against the concrete wall, just lack -- and do what we must do to save not just our country, but the entire world. >> that is where we are right now. a right-wing media personality calling for the execution of black politicians because trump might be indicted for alleged crimes. we recently learned that on saturday, trump will hold his first rally since announcing his intend impending indictment in waco, texas. we will be the 30th anniversary of the armed standoff between federal agents and followers of cult leader david courage. for people in the far right, waco has become a symbol of anti government, pro white christian nationalist sentiment and again,

it is hard to know if trump knows that. if he is going there, because of that. or not. but for some of his followers, this decision to pull this rally there will mean something. and they will be listening to everything he says. when we come back, we will examine what exactly it might take to pry the republican party out of trump's hands. that is next. the first time your sales reached 100k with godaddy was also the first time your profits left you speechless. at the counter or on the go, save 20% with the lowest transaction fees and keep more of what you make. start saving today at godaddy.com dupixent helps you du more with less asthma. and can help you breathe better in as little as 2 weeks. dupixent is an add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma

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local da, playing in presidential politics. that starts right there -- don't you think it will happen across the country? it is obvious this is a sham. what happened? president trump announces he's running for right reelection and should sam, now says, we will do it. >> it's disgusting and terrible for our country. >> -- of the federal government and departments against political opponents. >> it's going to blow up our country. and this is a bunch of bs. >> as donald trump faces a potentially historic indictment, republicans are rallying to his defense. the theory among those republican seems to be that this indictment will help trump show up his base in the republican presidential primary. but heading into this tumultuous moment, most republican voters were already expressing some reservations about trump as a candidate. an nbc news poll from earlier this year found that only 33% of republican primary voters

say they support trump more than they support the republican party. 62% say they support the party over donald trump. so are republicans making a mistake when they assume that defending trump is their only option? joining us now is stuart stevens, former chief strategist for the mitt romney for president campaign in 2012, and now with the lincoln project. he's the author of it all was a lie. stuart stevens, thank you for joining the program. given the title of the book, i wonder where you think the party stands in this moment. certainly there are some 33% of the gop that are trump die hards. but what about the 62% that are going to witness the unfolding of potentially historic criminal indictment? where do you think they have been in their support for donald trump? >> you know, i think that poll is a little misleading. because the republican party has become donald trump.

so, it's not really much of a choice. there is no anti trump movement of any size in the republican party. what happens if you oppose trump? you are liz cheney. they threw cheney out of the party. so, it's an easy thing to say, well, i don't support donald trump. i support the party more than donald trump, when you are really saying the same thing. look, this is where the republican party has ended up. it began when they accepted donald trump, when donald trump went out and called for a muslim ban in december of 2015. everyone knew in the party, if this party stood for anything, it was the constitution. this was a religious test. they knew this. but they didn't stand up to trump. and there was this thing the republican party to say when i worked in it, that character counts. and that was right. and this is now all unfolding. and it is just beginning. the majority of the republican party does not believe that joe

biden is the legally elected president. so, play that out. what does it mean? it means they live in an occupied country. that not only gives them a reason to do whatever it takes. but for some, it gives them an obligation. and i think this is just beginning. i think the republican party is shameful in not standing up for the rule of law, which is what this is. the reason there is a former president being indicted is because the republican party nominated and elected a criminal. it's no more complicated than that. >> what do you think -- you know, one of the things that trump has been saying in recent days is, if they can get me, they can get you. can you unpack that a little bit for me? and why do you think that is so resident with the gop in this particular moment -- >> well, it's all about grievance. the organizing principle of the republican party now is fear. think about it. it is fear of these horrors

coming over the border. it is fear of the rapists and the criminals coming from mexico. it is fear that there are these large powerful forces in the world out there that have control -- the party wants to believe, that when ronald reagan was president, if you were born in america, you had one lifes lottery. there are inequalities in america. but nobody was disadvantage because they are american. that's now been turned on its head. and for trump, to be born in america means you are a victim. you are a chump. there are powerful forces out there. so, once you fall into this victim mentality, that is what trump is rallying. and really, it's all about this. it's always been about race. when they tried to haul the votes that they said were illegal on january 6th, when 57% of the party voted not to certify the election, where

were they? atlanta, detroit, philadelphia. why were they suspect? because they were predominantly african american votes. so, the country is headed to be become a minority majority party. there is nothing the republican party can do to stop that. and what you are seeing here playing out is this sort of the attempt to stop the inevitable. >> yeah. >> instead of doing what the party should have done, which is to do the hard work to appeal to these non-white voters, they have gone the other way. it's pretty much officially a white grievance party now. >> do you think there's any room for other republicans to criticize trump in this hour at all? i guess i'm looking at governor that ron desantis, who, with a wink and nod, has mentioned the phrases porn star and hush money as much as he could this week. do you think he will be punished for that? even though it wasn't outright criticism of trump but just a nod to the absurdity and tawdry

news of what's happening here? >> i think the real test here is going to say be that, will run desantis say that joe biden won a fair and free election? are we even talking about that? -- he hasn't said that. he said that joe biden -- he accepts joe biden as president. so, they have to stand up to trump if they are really going to try to say that the party has to go in a different direction. but they won't do it. mitch mcconnell won't even say donald trump's name. and they are all saying that they will support donald trump if he is the nominee. even after what happened on january 6th -- even when we know that the russians backed him -- so, what do you do with that? i don't see how that is any sort of definition of patriotism or putting the country first. it is putting the party first pour for power. >> stuart stevens, former republican consultant with a dire prognosis for the gop.

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news tonight relating to the manhattan da's hush money investigation. cnn reports tonight that communications between stormy daniels and her lawyer, currently defending donald trump. those communications are now in the hands of the manhattan da. daniel side says the exchanges between daniels and current trump lawyer, joe tacopina dates back to 2018 when daniel approached tacopina about representing her. these communications raise the possibility the tacopina could be sidelined, for now, in turn from defending trump. tacopina denies that there is a conflict of interest and says he neither -- stormy daniels. that's it for us. tonight stay tuned for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >>