good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquartersñr in new york city. history on 3w■hold, just in the last çóhour, we've learned a manhattan d.a. has canceled today's scheduled grand jury meeting with no word onñr why. now, as the country waits for those jurors to decide donald trump's fate, the former president is reportedly invigorated by the possibility

of an i]indictment. does he have reason to ñye,ñr os it all just wishful thinking? plus, thwederal reserve with a big decision to make, expected to hikexd interest rat just an hour from now-ó butxd t may be thec easiest part of the fed chairman's day. jay powell trying to balance multiple challenges from bank failures to stubbornlp inflatio and will face a grilling fromñr reporters later this afternoon. thelp mother of=ñ irvo otie praises the grand jury for indictingñi the people she call monsters now charged withñi but we begin today, the d#a we thought the grand jury would reconvene and possibly vote on

is a sobering reality that trump's fate along withçów3 tha future to his are at st'. i want to bring in nbc's garrett haake joining me from outside the d.a.'s office inohr manhatt ì(lc% political analyst, paul butler is añi formerw3 federal prosecu and law professor at çógeorgeto. he's also an msnbclpr analyst. so garrett, what, if anything,

the grand jurorsçó don't commen on them. even what we know about the schedule is what we've been able to glean largely from movements back and forth. so the relative schedule, when things are canceled, uz9■ events come and go can mean a lot or it can meanr it could mean a witness wasn't available today or somebody has covid. you could name the possibilities here, but what this does, i think, is obviously draw out the time line, which as recently as bep be, you know, this kind of caseú could be drawn to a conclusion at some point this week, obviously, donald trump's post over the weekend elevated that possibility, and now as we all stand around and wait, i can kxd pleased with this 2ñ they think it makes it looks like thee1 manh#l)9■ d.a.xd doe have its act together, perhaps this case isn't as strong as the d.a. believes. we don't any of that is true. &/]%q

>> okay, paul, what's your take on this w3delay? obviously as we know, this is all done in secret. there are a number ofxd possibilities. is there in your mind a probability? >> yes, there is. it's true that grand juries are e1 procedures, and these prosecutors have been signaling that they're at the end of their investigation and that they ■ the grand jury to return an indictment. they signaled that by inviting donald trump to testify and also by presenting that rebuttal r witness, that attorney robertlp costello who basically appears to have testified on trump's behalf. so chris, the next step is if that they've heard from, all of the documents that they've saved, and then the grand jury votes. the cliche is if you aim for thd

king, you best not miss. the bottom line is this would be a riskyxdçó prosecution for the manhattan d.a. with several opportunities to missçó includi by getting the case thrown out by a judge or goingjf to trial d losing. so prosecutors want to make sure they have as compellinge/qxdçóñ1 q" as possible, and that's probably what they're working on. >> so brendan, you know, we've been waitingt( fori]fá this, ane been talking about the importance of this.lpçó is it hyperbole to say that the stakes are high? they're high for donald trump who's running for president in 2024. they're high for his party as we mentioned. they're the folks who have largely tied their fortunes to his and, frankly, for history. >> yeah, it's remarkable.çó on one hand it feels likei] thi historic event, obviously something we have never seen. ite1 also in some ways feels a little familiar, right? donald trumpok inviting chaos, having all ofe1 us think maybe

this is the thing that finally gets people to turn on him or they likexd theox/xñi chaosçó t. as long as republican voters ard there for it, they're probably not going to see elected officials walk away from him at any time. it ultimately has the sameçóçó feeling. i don't know that an indictment is ultimately good for anybody, but it certainly does feel like itgugugugugugugugugugonald trum ír3 he loves the attention, he loves playing the victim.xd he loves controlling the narrative. here we are, again, talking about him and his poll numbers are on the areñiçó rise. >> so in that context of the donald trump show, the reality show star brendan, when we hear that "new york times" reporting

that he's, you knowfá talking about the perp walk. should he smilrps) not? we know that at least according to theire1 reporting, he thinks this could be a fun experience. he wants to showñi signals of strength, not of shame.lp it all fits intor about the show part ofe1 him, t opj) s side of it. what i posited at the top is that there's this#q how much he actually thinks thi spin or reality, and proba:l/■j it's a little bit of both, what we know is that he's not going ápáive. he's going to get out there. he's going to rally people behind him. we'

defense, rehabbing him, and he is always in control, and that's just the way he likes it. >> paul, trump is also described as, quote, significantly disconnected fromñi the legalt( trouble he's in. let me read to you part of "the5 new york times" reporting, quote, he has been spottedxd zipping around his palmi] beach resort in his golf cart, and ini if he's disconnected from reality, paul, give us a reality check. what really is he facing herei] potentially? >> soçó he'si] facing being

away really quickly.xd he's facing a misdemeanor charge or possibly a felony charge in new york, and here's the thing. ok be theqñifá least of his worrie he's chargedçó by d.a.é@■ fani s in georgia, he's looking at up to 20 years in prison if she goes with alp racketeering char, he's alsoe1xd ■ investigation involving both mar-a-lago and whether he illegally hoardedq documents there and obstructedw3 justice. and of course january 6th, he's in huge trouble. this is probably the worst trouble he's ever been in in his life. ne of the -- you just mentioned, mar-a-lago because there's new reporting on that from abc news about the investigation into thoseçó classifie$■d documents. it says prosecutors and the special counsel's office havei] presented, quote, compellingxj(

preliminary evidence that trump knowingly andñi deliberately misled his own attorneys aboutq classified materials after leaving office and committed, quote, criminal violations. now, that's according to the judg- who is overseeing the case, and nbc news has noti] confirmed that. the lawyers are supposed to kee clients confidential, but not if the client tells you to do something illegal or asks youñio help him do something illegal. soçó chris,5a■ this would be impossible evidence for jack

also kept documents that they shouldn't have, that might have cam weaker, but neither biden nor pence isçóxd accused offáe1ñi o justice, and that's just the kindt( of testimony that evan corcoran has now offered theçó grand jury. jryou, brendan andq paul, both offá yo are stickingxd çóaround, and we expecting a major decision from the federal reserve in the next hour as the central bank weighs whetheru those problems blamed in part on those high interest rates. the markets are expecting a quarter point bump, less aggressive than what we've seen over the past year. that would still leave rates at a 16-year high withxd massive implications for your money.!u■1 cnbc's seni&8■ó[■t(zv■ markets

correspondent bob pisani joe)ñi us from thelpfáq new york stock exchaw;eyp,■ what arelp they likely to get? >> what they want is they want the feds to hike 25 basis points, aym■ quarter point, and then stop. they want them to hike a little they want thant the fed to+■tle imply they're still concerned about inflation, but thelxrauseu is the key here. they wantt( the fed to acknowlee that this banking'c■ crisis mig have slowed the economy down a little bit. that's what the fed wants to do to fight inflation, slow the xd economy, but they also want the fed to say we've hiked interest rates, you know, 4%, 400 basis points, more thant( thate1 in t last year or so. let's just stop and see what the effects are. here's the problem. the problemd don't imply that they're goingú to pause. if the fed comes out and jfsays you know, we're not really done fighting inflation. it hasn't gone away.

we're still worried, we can't preclude the idea that maybe we'll do additional rate hikes at the next meeting. if they don't give a clear signal of a pause, i think the market'sq with that. that's why we've been rallying in the last few days. >> let's show folks a graphic. i looked at iti] and i hadñi forgotten just how much 3/4 point ratee1 hikes there have been. for the average american, i think a quarter of a point is just the latestzv■w3 in this lo line, some might argue brutale1 series of increases. i guess to your point, the point does the fed say this isn't working and so we're going to stop, or it has worked and we're going to stopñ2hju is stopping, period, not rearcv÷ in the card, ñ likelyf0ny scenario? >> yeah, i think the pause is the best that anybody can hope for. so it's -- there's an argument for a pause. many people have argued that this banking crisisq is going t slow economic growth down, and that's a good ñrthing, butñr th

at least what the federal reserve wants. there's an argument to be made about this. here'slpi] tpé problem, the fed reputation for fighting inflation has been badly tarnished. they were very late hiking interest rates. õjey were behind the curve. there's not a logné@■ ofe1 plus them to say, okay, we're goingu to go along with all the people s 3!= signal, don't worry, we're done right now. we're just going to sit around and watch what happens to the economy. i think that they're going to say,nb■ we want to be very vigit about this, and it's going to be difficult for the market to sit around and say, they clearly told us that this is it. i think they're not going to go that far. >>q cnbc's bobñrñi pisani, than.

rkts. the new and gut wrenchingok reaction ofxd i$>l oat."■a5■fams mother says shows a homicide ■ég his brother says hasi] leftçó t family broken. emmanuel macron's comments about hisñi decision to raise9■ retirementa5■e1 fáage, is his d helping or hurting him. and a tale from the high seas that even her manxd mehlvie might notr the firsthand story. that's highway. you're watching 5a■t("chris jan reports" only on msnbc.

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qi %ì(lc% the family of irvoçó otieno opening up for the first time since the public release of a video that appears to show officers and medical staffçó pi on top of the 28-year-old for 11

minutes. ten people have nowxd been indicted by the grand jury. prosecutorsxd arguing that otie w#kñ smothered to death threew3 weeks ago.ñixd >> those ten criminals, i was happyñit( to hear that they wer indicted. >>ñixd for 11 minutes, focus onr breathing. imagine what irvo's body was doing, how hard his heart was working. don't fail us this time. we don't need another irvo after this. families deserve to wake up and love their loved ones, even though they sometimes can'tfá lr themselves. >> nbc's marissa parra is live on the ground in virginiajd i'm also joined by paul i]e1but msnbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. marissa, what is next in this case against those seven sheriffsñi deputiese1 and three medicalñr xdprofessionals? >> reporter: well, we know that

there will be a jury trial at some point, but betòq now andlp then there are bond court hearings that are actually happening today. several of them have happened this morning. we know that there's at least one happening right now as we xd speak. we have learned at least some new details fromfá defense for several of thoseqñi deputies as well as hospital workersxy.u■q k on your screen. they had a question on the injection, there was an injection given to otieno. one of the questions pet one of the district attorneys hadxd is di they've pointedñi to the autops the defense alleging that it tooke1 20 minutes to even bring otieno inside, that apparently there weren't hospital staff to

help them with that until much later, and then there was questions on why were deputies having to be part of that process. should that have been something that they had to be involved in. those are questions that thee1 agency that qlpoversees psychiac hospitals in theçói] commonwealf virginia are facing right now. the department of behavioral health ande1 developmental services came out with a statement, not in response toh say in part that the threet( hospitalok staff members who ha been charged will befá placed+■ admin leave pending the results of the legal proceedings. that's an entirelyr thing. we know that the sheriff'sçó deputies involved in this also on administrative leave as part of this process here, and they said that they're cooperating with virginia state police on this investigation. and chris,2alother thingçó to point out here, when we talk about next steps, when we talk about questions that e1remain xd unanswered and where the s] failed, one of the things that defense attorneys areçó pointin [ginia statei]

police report hasn't been completed and won't be completed for some time. a lot that still needs answering as we low forward and aheadxd t >> based on the evidence, they took about three hours, and they camexd back with ten indictment. what does that say to p,■you? >> it says to meñi that these ne menfá and one womanfá murdered son. those animals that treated him so wrong and squeezed the life out ofq him. i want themw3lpçó brought to ju and with every breathe1 that i'v got, as long as i have life in me, i willokp,■ work towards th.

>> paul, that emotion from his mother, the outrage, how much og this case going forward willñit focus on whatçóápp'd what presumably the jurors will ""á able to see on that video fort( themselves? seven police officers, threefá hospital workers, hands on mr. otieno's mouth, his head, all the wayq down tofá his toes. they're usingñi the restraint procedure of puttinglp pressuren someone lying in a prone p,■ position,fáñr handcuffed, leg cuffed.b.■ the whole worldñi learned durin the floyd trial howwsñd life-threaá?'ing that is, and prosecutors have alsoxd suggest açóçó cover-up. medical workers gave mr. otieno a sedative,t( but the prosecuto

says this was after he was hc >> it's such a great question and a tragic question. how could a human being let another human being dou

>> marissa parra and paulñi butler, thank youq5a■ both very much. in the fight of his political life, what french president macron had to say about that controversial pension bill as nationwide protests continue in france.$x■

we'll head to paris for the latest. and joint war games, the u.s. and south korea launched their largest militaryçóe1 exer■ in five years. nbc news has been on the ground in the middle of the action. we've got a live report from seoul next. business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence. think he's posting about all that ancient roman coinage? no. he's making real-time money moves with merrill. so no matter what the market's doing, he's ready. and that's... how you collect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company. mara, are you sure you don't want -to go bowling with us tonight? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are --

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>ñ?mç we have breaking news outf colorado, you're looking at the live pictures afterñiw3 a shoot at a school, and a manhunt is underway for the gunman. let me tell you what we know m■w3 conference that was just held. two staff members were hurt in that shooting at denver's east high school. one is said to be in serious condition, oneqjf in critical condition, one other student suffered an allergic reaction and was also taken to the hospital. police say the suspect is a student andçóçóq what happened e agreed to be patted down and then opened fire on the two male staffers. that school is in lockdown. you see the number of people who are now outside. the local paper, the denver post is reporting a large police presence in the area east ofñi downtown. the atf is already on scene, and the mayor has come to thew6schol according to the post saying we know who he is, regarding the suspect. we will find him, and we will

hold him accountable.çó but again, that is an active manhunt in the east side of denver,e1w3ñi colorado. meantime, abroad, president macron for the first time today defending theçó decision that h ■ a massive nationwide xdthat h protest. macron sat downñi with two top french xowrnalists after his government survived two no confidence votes over the pension reform bill that would effectively raise the retirement age for most folksñi from 62 to■ 64. let me bring in çónbc's meagan fitzgerald who is on the ground in paris, where she has been talking directly withñi protesters. what exactlyxd did president macron have to say today, meagan andtñ.!■at reactione-y■ are youd hearing? >> reporter: we saw a $w%9q■ emmanuel macron doubling downt(n hist( decision to push through that legislation, bypassing a vote inçóçó parliament to incre the retirement age fromw3 62 to 64. he said he didn't want to do it

but he had to do it because the current pension system is in jeopardyçó of running a deficit. he hopes in the future the french people will see he's right and that his only regretç is that he didn't convince the people. he's got aq lot of oppow8urjz ÷ parliament that are angry at him.t( they say he didn't have to do i1 this way. he could have foundi] the money elsewhere. you have a country that has erupted in anger. 70% of french people are opposed to what he did and the way in which he did it.q he's at+■i]q a 28% favorability rating right xdnow. there'sfsh speculation on howt( effective heok will be movinglp forward as he goes forward four more years in his presidency. the people are upset. they have been protesting for the last six days since he pushed through that legislation on thursday. people angry because they feel as though he's not listening to them andxd that he didn't go abt this in a democratic way. where we're standing right now, we'refái] anticipating another protest. protesters tell us they're n going to stop. this is justñi the start of man

more demonstrations to come, and then of course tomorrow, çóchri we're looking at a nationwide strike that certainly has the potential to bring france to a >> thank you for that. also today, thefá u.s. and south korea are wrapping up their largest militarye1 exercis their largese've 'tarye1 exercis video of theset( rxufóq fire exercises, which involved everything from artillery toxd blackhawks to offensive operation drills. they come as north korea isq ramping up missilexde1 tests, fg multiple cruise missiles off the east coast lpçótoday. that is according to south korea's military.xd nbc'sçóñi josh lederman followit all from seoul, south korea. tell usq a littlekthmore, josh, about these exercises and why they're so important. >> reporter: chris, it's in part gotten out of the business of holding these massive joint

focused training on it. >> reporter: and it's not justç provocations, chris, in the midst of"n■tp all of these laun the north is advancing its weapons system, testingú new intercontinental ballistic ■

missile, andjffá also according photographs, developing underground silos that they can use to launch icbms with very little notice that are very difficult for the u.s.fá and soh korea to detect. and so those are causesfá for increasing concerns for the5a■ i militabyr that is really drivin the sense ofxd urgency behind these war games and behind u.s. efforts to show that it is going to stand up to thisi] aggressio1 and to make■ó sure that south korea5a■r potential!u■ threat from north korea. >>zv■ j's+ lederman, thank you that. açnew normal, how the trump team is reportedlye1 preparing r a possible indictment heading into 2024, as governor desantis gives us a preview of candidate desantis. that's all next. and enterprise control, vmware helps you innovate and grow. realtor.com (in a whisper) if we use kevin's college fund, we can afford this house. the house whisperer! this house says use realtor.com to find options within your budget.

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to improve short-term memory. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. think he's posting about all that ancient roman coinage? no. he's making real-time money moves with merrill. so no matter what the market's doing, he's ready. and that's... how you collect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company. a newlp interview and new insight, the clearest ron desantis's opening argument if he runs for president.

in that interview with piers morgan,xd the florida governor slammed trump's leadership style, he went there on the is it ron ñrdesanctimonious? >> i can't -- i don't know how to spell desanctimonious, i don't know what it means. i kind of like it. we'll go with that.fá that's fine. you can call me whatever you want, just as long as you also call me a winner. >>xd lpmeantime, for donald tru whose combative campaign style whose combative campaign style has been consistent, there's the ends up running while under indictment. let's discussxds!%m■ with usa lá today's washington bureau chief and brendan buck is back with us. susan, i'm curiousñiçó what you take is on this interview. we've only heard aq bit of qit, you know, we read more yb5uq■ iq but obviously withi a friendly

piers morgan. do you see it as maybe a previep ofxdçk]xca 2024 opening argumen? >> i think so. i think you see governorñr desantis attackinge1 former president trump on hisr pollingñilpçó-ñâ]ch%í'!u4q?

look, you don't beat donald trump by just presenting yourself as açó sunny alternati. i think we knowlp enough about donald trump that he's going to com upmonmouth univ out that had donald trump up 14 points on ron desantis. three months ago ron desantis

we do knowfá there's a core, ho big that core will +■be, right, brendan has yet to be seen, and we don't even know if any indictment is going to happen. let's be clear about that.

let's be clear about that. now, they mayu

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about new abortion laws, right? >> absolutely. as you said, they cited staffing issues, a decline in the number of babies being born in the hospital, but really went into the anti-abortion laws in the state saying that ob/gyns are leaving the state. they can't have them come to the state where they could potentially be criminalized, sued if they're giving care that could qualify under the anti-abortion laws in the state. they're saying this is not a safe environment for ob/gyns anymore. >> you talk to a lot of women and moms, what did they tell you? >> i talked to one mom in particular, eight years ago, she's from sand point, wanted to have a home birth, something went wrong. she experienced complications, she was rushed to the hospital and was able to have an emergency c-section. she says now, considering what her community is going to have to go through, she shutters to think of what would have happened to her under the circumstance. that will be a reality for some women there. they will need to travel over an

hour, certainly potential horrible health outcomes for women and their children. >> that is the key question, what could it mean. could the baby survive? could the mom survive? are hospital officials offering any advice or what's -- i mean, you never know. some people obviously have a high risk pregnancy, but you never know if you're going to be in the situation that mother was in, which suddenly she needs a c section. what do they do? >> they have to travel further. an emergency room is not equipped to deal with what an ob/gyn would have to deal with. that's what it comes down to is travel further. that's what's going to plague this community. it's plaguing those in the state who feel like they have to prioritize their families, even future ob/gyns, i talked to one future one who wanted to go in a residency. is this a community i could give birth in or am i going to put

myself in a position where if i have a family, i could be imprisoned or fined or sued because i was doing my job. >> if you get pregnant, where do you go, what do you do. danielle, thank you so much for this reporting. we appreciate you coming on the program. it's a story that could have straight out of an epic novel or a movie. the stunning rescue of a sailboat crew left stranded in the pacific after a whale, you heard me, a whale sunk their boat. you got to see this story, next. you could save hundreds. that's a great idea, tv dad. listen to your tv dad. drivers who switch and save with progressive save nearly $700 on average. nicorette knows quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like... just stop. go for a run. go for ten runs. run a marathon. instead, start small with nicorette, which will lead to something big. young lady who was, you know, mid 30s, couple of kids, recently went through a divorce. she had a lot of questions when she came in.

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and now to a whale of a tale, sailboat crew, very lucky to be alive today after abandoning their sunken ship in the pacific. nbc's sam brock has the story. >> reporter: from aboard the boat that came to his rescue, rick rodriguez describes a sensation that was unlike anything he'd ever experienced as a sailor. >> we immediately looked inside and saw a very big whale. >> four friends were sharing a pizza about a week ago on their long awaited sailing excursion to polynesia on board the rain dancer. when that initial jolt quickly forced them to snap into survival mode. >> it was just an incredible amount of water coming in. >> i felt like it was a scene of a movie. everything was floating. >> at once, rick sent out a may

day call to authorities and sent text messages to his brother roger in a miami and his friend tommy joyce who was sailing a buddy boat in the area. specifically there for safety. tommy, this is no joke, we hit a whale when the ship went down, we're in the life raft, we need help. asap. what followed was a digital version of telephone, involving texts, whatsapp messages, and the peruvian government. as the friend anxiously waited, an inflatable life raft and dingy. >> it was the boat watch group that ended up having somebody on there that knew rolling stones. >> think about 60 miles. 65 miles a day when we realize we're on the coast. >> nine hours later, that boat named rolling stone pinpointed their impact location and scooped up the four sailors. >> we saw them so far out, and then we realized we're still

like an hour and a half away from them. but for that hour and a half, we were really excited. >> for this confident group, there was never any doubt they'd survive even in rough waters. >> it made me realize, you know, how capable we are. and how scared we are in focused situations like this. >> sam brock, nbc news. >> that's a hard story to cop, but we have a lot to cover in our second hour of "chris jansing reports" reports. let's get right to it. at this hour, a man hunt underway in denver for a student who shot two staff members and then fled the scene. we've got a live report ahead. , we are moments away from a key fed decision on interest rates. what it means for wall street and your wallet. >> after housing prices