thank you for spending this thursday afternoonxd with :jnus. starts right now.ri melber a, ari. welcome to "the beat." i am ari melber, and morejf importantly,fá this is james carville. veteran gristled strategist joins usñi for the first time since trump escalated. your our guest. i'll see you in a minute. sometimes we get clues. sometimes wer what's going to happenñixd out this usually secretive probe, and sometimes we report on the 9-

s:5i9ñcohen was operating on hi own volition, not reporting to anyone, #p19 9 time -- this was not a negotiation that took 30 minutes. you don't draft a document of had naturefñp'd spend ani] hour. we're talking about hours and hours and hoursñr of work backñd fort/ñd the payments. it's a lot of work.q and the wants to american people to believe thati] he was justñi ou there doing all of this onok hi own and not reporting to anyone% about it, it's not believable. >> that was stormyi]i] daniels' lawyer at the time. here's what's strike about that record. clinging to that fádefense, whi

he now opposes. he was agreeing with what trump claims now, thatt( cohen went rogue. that is now the %nu defense, and now as you may have noticed it is mr. cohen whoçó insists - and he said so under oath --xd t himself at legal risk if he's not telling !uáruth. he insists back then is when he was still in with the trump folks so he was still lying for his long time client, and that's what he says he i]retracts.xd but it is a remind they are donald trump's team will have evidence and tv tapesw3 like th to tray to undercut cohen. avenatti also led the way on arguing that there could be other violations. >> there can also beok addition campaign financeçó violations associated with thatjf conduct. thec a.m.i. was purposely engagd in an organized effort with michael cohen and thee1 trumpeq% organization to influence thas campaign, and it was effecp being coordinated by donald

trump or michael cohen but none of that wasxd reported, that cod be very, very problematic.fá >> it really could, because wha only been born on the since cohen shifted. mr. trump directlyrshowe1 + voice, in that to try to use the tabloid to bury the story. a lot changed. cohen wentñrw3çó to w3prison. avenatti was convicted of defrauding clients like stormyx daniels and convicted of an q what is not even as some of these individuals have run into their own legalxdt( problems. then you have alvin bragg who i÷ now obviously in the sights of donald trump. i have a report on that later c

he has becomeçóçó famous to man people to viewers or trumpe1 fa learning about him asq an public enemy or many other peoplew3 seeing him as someone o might do what other prosecutors haven't done, w.tict donald çóçó trump/ before he became a nationalok name, he was running for this job, and here's what he heard from him right here. >> you mentionedxdi=$tájjt afte mayors, but an ex-president is different. it is more !u■pressure. t thatxd thisjfp,■ offi, the d.a. has the lege■ authoj to indict the next president ifq warranted? >> okcertainly.lpñie1 i actually haven't heard any argument to the contrary in terms of the legal authorityw3 investigate and prosecute a former president, certainly not on these facts, which i understand them to be unrelated to the president sim i think the better part of that argument is múlhat wet( can't have a system where anyone is above the law.ñr

look. ájju$at when we reach a conclusion, whether that's-9■ bqi indictmen closing the investigation. >> with regardxd to mr. trump. >>c the message it sends toxdñi others, the general deterrent that we won't stand forws■d cheg and lyingfá and greed in manhatn is all very important in and of i think, but it'st( also a chapr in a larger book and part of a larger investigation. >> he was talking aboutr significant act, a convict of trump's cfo. and you heard him there.xd he said it that night. he saidjf in that ñiinterview,

larger investigation, one chapter.ñi i don't know if that night orxd the next day it reverberatey that waye1 as the next chapter would beñi donald trump.ñir ■ñi that with his prediction this week, and that is what the d.a. was telling us. looking ate1 what we have, evidence, stkt5qm1ñ indications in the light of day with what we know now. meanwhile, trump's÷ there is in the real world a lot of political heat here.

i'm sure you remember some of those characters. i come to youe1 notfá for statu analysis of the new york business records law. i did that last night.t( might do it tomorrow. i come to you for yourt( respon tolp wh allies say, when he is indict it will be good for him, and what do you think as a matter of politics and ethics your party should be doingt(q right now. >> it will very likely have a na5■ peoplee1 y likely have a that are already galvanized.w3ñi republicans saying -- whatever crt mob is coming after our guys. i don't imagine this will be helpful in montgomery county pennsylvania or places like that. but, if we're going to have a real test -- assume heñrxdi get indicted. assume that's the t(case, politically. we'll see april 4th there's a

gigantic supreme court5a■ race wisconsine it's a swing state. a 3-3 supreme court. this is for all theq marbles.xd and we'll see if theyt( galvani and turn out in some of the redderñi counties in wisconsin. we're actually going to have an experiment in realtime here, because if this indictment takes place, it's going to be like a so let's keep our eye -- if it does, we'll have realñi voters checking ) this year. it's a question. i'm not drawing a false equivalence. billt( clinton was neverxd linko an insurrection or series of crimes, i just want to be clear in my role as journalist. however, you are familiar with the fact that thee1 perceptions partisançó overreach against hi

did later -- to his benefit.3w■ i imagine youñiñi might disagre

bill clinton was notçó perfectxd man;yuj things, but a broad swath of the country,jfçóñixd including inde at the time felt the legalé@■q s didn't match, and what you're saying here is if the le#z facts pile upy1 -- i alwaysg if there is an indictment in new york, there will be a trial and trump will be able to defend himself. my last question for you, so you see folks stepping up and using this more, or dicey because it cuts both ways?e1 yout( hit them in the mouth. that guy,w3 he doesn't know whether to wind hislp kneew3zz% scratch hisñió[■ watching and h tried to play in a league he can't play in, and that's pretty evident. he's aq confused guy. trump hit him ivphe mouth, and

he lost hisq plan. he just went totally off key. so my hat's off to iron mike. ñ a good tyson. sounds like you're not impressed that desantis is up there. we haven't seen him in setting andfá debates. we'll lpáqq ixd got a lot cooking. happy to start with e1you. james carville, thank you for being here. >> thank you, sir. we'll watch this closely. it will be fun. watch wisconsin for app4h. >> there you go, we always learn something fromzv■ you. i'm not sure everyoneqçó had th jzñr on their mind. james carville, thank you. shortest breakjf coming up, next a special reportt( we have been workinga5■ on on "the beatu efforts to go out and intimidate prosecutors usuallyñr fail. i'm back with you in 60 secondsi

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report on pressure, threats, and even criminal violence that can be a raid against prosecutors and law enforcement, which looms over this trump case. and he has a longi] history pushing violent rhetoric, which is now a:.wc÷÷p8pk knock the crap out of them, will you? i will pay for the legal fees.

echoes of his calls for the -- and then■=ñ new york d.a. has t an5a■ $=unusual step,kí sendiuk to the staffvú assuring his safy as a top

threat against the office will be investigated and the propero■ safeguards in place soox■ allh÷0 of us harg a secureq work?■ environment. thi9■ all america. thatxd response came with these additional signs of safeguards, barricades, increased security. some of that would be expected for any high profile caseñr at e but his coup attempt, attacks on the rule of law, clashing with

three ñ!w÷e1çó1d.÷ óááq(q"ented and d.aíie1 bragg÷ ÷a"ing whatet -- after mar-a-la se. again, that was unprecedented for ai]q former president'sr property. he sent a bam channel message to the attorney general saying touchdown country is on fire. what can i do to reduce the xd heat? seenxd largelylá that might commit violence. at some point, all of this evidence may lead government officials to focus more on addressingfá trump's unprecedend actions and alleged criminal misconduct, rather t your hands about-

for example, a procedural matte3 knocks out a charge or a count,% we will cover that. all defendants are supposedht■ be afforded those options and ecms that's the law.q we also

if thatçó sound9hwr illogical, ■ because it is not appealing to any logic.ñr ñ q%c vigilante defense for trump. >> ron desantis should be standing in the streets to stop any sorts7■ of extradition of tp from the state of florida. that would cause so much mayhem. that would be a monstrous mistake. >> riots, mayhem.w3 r(the rule of law to rioters is the end d literally. lindsey graham is aqhlawyer. he

views of certaint( rioters. conservatives famously denounced the lawlessness of thexd riots that responded toñi lawless outcomes like theñilp verdict ç"ú it's a contrast$h■ to what we h gop's claim that> enough is$1 enoughe1 is ñeno. stopyz letting violent criminal out of jail. let'3■p protectlp our citizens. let's do our job. >> no one is above the law. >> now, in fairness, there may be some conservatives whoñi genuinely back that approach consistently for all xdpeople, d they may be ablet( tloi show

through their votes and (uqsq'ts over time they that view. but a bunch of people i showed youo about thisxd at about thisxd at where8 enforcement and people in powerp lawmakers are saying, surrender to the mayhem if it's on behalf of trump. senators graham, cruz, and hawley arer ifut donald trump isn't :pzv■ñi. the calls for order only seem to matter for them when they're using specificfá instances to sw who they're talking about. basically minorities, peopou■ o 5urj all out in the. the climate includes k! recent fa beyondró■ it. at least surgev in domestic

that's the fbi director, )uppos appointed byqñr donald trumpq be way. they surged the it have lawful search aft i]mar-a-lago. there was an attack on a fbi office three days later,çó attributed toe1 a suspect who d{q fbi agents there are many plots and attacks we'regr familr with against a rauúz of publice op■r(rp&s.ç

>> hatred, e1bigotry, and violei have no place in the great state of michigan. we will find you. we will hold you accountable, and we will bring to you justice. >> she was speakingfá just week out from the election, which donald trump then tried to steal with ançó attempted coup and kñ4 insurrection, and then the january violence. ■ of thatçó plot wasa convicted and ,l a-'eukñaw÷ 16-y=árájráq'tence, as did

others.çó when the suspects were first arrested -- i just showed tr■yo it was thatga was quite clear about what she viewed as a line backxt>■ó then-president trump. >> just last week, the president of the united states stood á:efore!lá7ññi the amer refused7c to]uçó condemn whiteó supremacists and hatey groups like these two michigan militia groups. >> not a drill. and not a warning aboutxd what' take all those plots together and you'll see the targeting of the officials in the legislatur is charged withõ6ñcmvl&■enforci law, and the threats to prosecutors and their law enforcement partners themselves,

now, does this stuff work? can these plots and attacks intimidate prosecutors or change where a criminal probe heads? i can tell you in some countries, criminals wieldñr?+!% violence to control part of law enforcement.xd or high corruption face this as a very effective tool, and itñi c be quite tragic. i'll give you one recent +■ example. a mexicanw3 cartelçó kidnapping membersr $ehrtuing them to obtain games of police. then the cartelxd hunts them do on their days offríz front of their families. that's according toxd a 2021 a. report which reports a analyst saying that effort, that plot hardly works and manye1 ñioffic quote, have decided to desert. re fleeing and in hiding.sert. 0qv that's quite serious.

ì(lc% ght3 in the modern@qap of the u.s., whenw3 you look at the history d look at these cases and these types of problems and threats,q this doesn't work. that's not a trump era fact.e1 historical examples of prosecutors staring down threats go, back to some of theçó most violent forces and eras in americançó history. the mafia, cosa nostra a different context welpxd asked veteran prosecutor of mafiaxd cases about thr%@;ák not suggestingçó they would end a whole criminal investigation bud wonderxd field goal he got scar. i wantlp to show thank you ñi tonight. this is robert fáfisk, who ran e famed e1çósdny, tapped by attor generalw3 reno, here what happe he told us on that xdñijfscore. >> do you or any of youri] team get scared? >> y

indicated, personally drug lord anthony barnes, picky fáscotto. i always felt if people were sensible about it, there was no future in threatening or knocking off a prosecutor, because you would just get another one and then you would have another problem on your hands besides the original charge. >> listen to what we just said. that's aó[■ veteran prosdwéúju&u about his own hypothetical assassination, quote, another problem besides that initial charge. pretty clinical way toq talk about your own murder. documented threats and plots or even hits put out. americanñz8$váq(uáors and their teams stay on the case with intensity. they do not desert. one prosecutor who took on the mob, william aaron wald facedt( reds mafia boss whojfp,■ ordered a m a that fáumja

but the hitmen then found andt( killed the prosecutor's father instead. quite kl arly a horrific tragedy. but again, on this point of whether this works, itlpi] did nothing to deter the prosecutor ñjob.ñi aaronwald talked about his fatherñr was a victim of somethg intend forok me. it was painful bug work went on. decade ago there wasi] a brazen attacai that gunneda5■ down two prosecutors inu an the final phasee1çó ofr an an ied, a pipe bomb>4)pá would explode in myw3 fáhouse. áejq) ñi retired judgejf reflecting on

threats and the overall duty of court officials. >> everyone inxdñi this lineok k at some point in time has threats levelled at them. it is part of tit job and you can't let it run the way you run your court or your life.=sm rñ recall standing up the gangsters and bombers. when you listen to them you see this is serious stuff. (báujukñit( books, court cases, they deal withxd all kind softs stuff. sometimes you get obstruction, a type of interferencew3 that may and otherqh times you get peopl violent enoughçó or dumb enougho this ort( getjf other people to it on theirq behalf.d sqáfá me important why we put this report together. none of those u.s.fá officials were referencing axd formere1fì%

president of the united statesç or current candidate. this is a sobering contrastjf tt cannot be normalized. republicançó voters will laterx decide if the calls toi] take bk the government after insurrection, e1sedition, are i their view disqualifyingçó when they have other choices. this is a democracy and it'#■ñd to people in that process to pick that nominee. but thefá threats and plots and violence havei] not stopped the past probes. there is no evidence they will stop the prosecutors the working today. and at a time where wefá don't know what comes next but know how donald trum,en■ attacks hav worked -- we know what happened on january 6th. we knowlp how many people have beent( convict offend that ym■ violence, andfá we knowv what isu

⌞3"■ that is o."á point for the rule of law qqtonight. it's alsozv■ something any coule criminal can considert( or possibly find out the hard way. you're kelly clarkson? yes. and you're in our bed? yes. what about five star dining sets? sorry i didn't have a reservation. you're kelly clarkson. i love your work. thank you. find just what you need at wayfair! even a personal sauna. oh! can we do the wayfair song? yes you can. wayfair! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ wow. it'd be better if you did it.

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james carville had a few choiceñi words for ron desantis tonight.

now they want to run it all the way through high school. critics say this is part of the big government approach desantis uses to control speech and limits how teachers andçó studes can discuss, for example, equal rights, themes in÷history, prepares ine1t( classrooms or e potentially on school grounds. look what happened when a reporter asked a question about this today. >> there's a rule w3proposed, wouldçó expand the ban on classroom instruction onfá gend identity and sexual orientation all the way through 12th grade. the legislature is looking at going through 8th. >> that is the visual of somebody walking away or ducking a question,xdq which is strikin because desantis apparently

there's anfá imageçó thatñr mig remind you of the infamous imfilm fáp

if somebody keeps telling youx truth, t(truth, truth, while trying to keep you from learning or environment to your

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congress ise1çó still at wo and there's a big hearing in washington all about tiktok, which is one of the most influentiy it is owned by çóchina. it hasxd over a billion active users worldwide, and us a l%55 it, share short formfá videos, d it's really driven our culture &■ >> i'm still jennie. jennie. jennie from the block.ñijf

>> i like that.çó i really, really like that. >> asg

there'se1p,■ a reason we keep returning to dancing -- we have thousands andok thousands of years. new technology, old habits. younger people really embraced this. as i mentioned earlier in the broadcast, should you'c■ care at this if you're not on tiktok? yeah, if you care abouti] media how people are learning, what we do as a society, wherexd we get our information. v]= as the biden administration, saying maybwó they need to ban the app completely. there are social security concerns. to gather alllp kinds of information about qus, our kw$( andñr the rest ofht@e informati on our phone. the company ceo today faced a bipartisan grilling.

many lawmakersçó here in thislx hearing discussing aspects of this that range from what i mentioned, the whole china trust communist weapon the spy on and =x=1=%q■ forçó futureñd] genera >> public outragló and apologie alonet(i] are not going reign i] tech. congress has to protect the american people. >> one of the biggest questions is whether there has to be an %. does the biden administration or congress want the take something as bigq asñi goog and say you'r banning it xdentirely. on the other hand, how do we get our arms around somethingçó tha fix our children inlp ways we

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report out publicly. i've committed to do that, when we reach a conclusion, if that's indictment or some other way of closing the investigation. >> with regard to mr. trump? >> with regard to mr. trump. >> alvin bragg told us we're going to get notice, and he's been very different from the bob mueller approach, where you wait around to learn anything, and there's more than one way to do that within the confines of the law. now bragg is telling republicans it was trump who created the false expectation he'd be arrested on tuesday and his lawyers urged to intervene. neither fact was a legitimate basis for what republicans are claiming they want to do, which is haul him down to congress. trump is making moves today, saying everyone should just be removed from any case investigating him, which is not credible. so, we don't know what will happen, but we do know if the case ends with no charges, d.a. bragg committed on this show, in fact, to telling us. so, whether they meet today or next week or whenever, we believe they'll be meeting monday in the grand jury.

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what is that? >> i got bored one day. and i put everything on a bagel. everything. >> who would like an authentic new york bagel? >> if i've said it once, i've said it to you a thousand times on this program. bagels are part of our lives. our shared culture. and last night, we got some tips on bagels from some real new yorkers. what is the best place to get a new york bagel? >> place across from the pier. >> h and h. >> h and h.

see? asked the wrong person. >> maybe you came here today. you're one h and she's the second. okay, shoutout to h and h. you want it crispy but doughy in the middle. got to be doughy in the middle. last night, after that moment popped up, i asked for your favorite bagel spots. we heard from thousands of viewers. we heard reports. not a formal pole, certainly not scientific, but here we go. based on what we heard from viewers, new york bagel favorites, h and h, utopia bagels, someone said that's not even close. brooklyn bagels was called the biggest and the best. and blackseed, where one of you said no further questions will be taken at this time. some of the handles are written there. and i'll tell you, new york bagels are special, reportedly because of the water, as well as our general experience in the matter, out here in new york. but we opened it up nationally and you told us philadelphia south street bagels, the best, absolutely. over in indiana, bagel fare,

outstanding, even by new york standards. in georgia, d b's bagels gets the list. the crunchy outside, soft inside, hand rolled bagels. and as i've told you, it is key to have that soft doughy center. might sound obvious, but no. you can find all kinds of bagels. sometimes in new york, and definitely around the nation, that don't have that mix. now, obviously what's the next question? i'll keep asking you, where are the best doughnuts in america? you can go to twitter, facebook, wherever, what are the best doughnuts in your hometown or in america? i love doughnuts more than bagels. let us now. "the reidout" starts now. tonight on "the reidout." >> president trump announces he's running for re-election and now we're going to pursue it. so -- this is something that i

think