all right, it is midnight on

the west coast, 3 am in the, east i'm ali velshi you're watching msnbc's indictment of donald trump, in just a few, hours americans will be waking up to this front page for th new york times, the head lin reads quote, the first e president to face criminal charges. trump indictment going acros the top manner on thursday, an unprecedente move and grand jury in new york voted to indict the former president donald trump, part o manhattan district attorne alvin bragg's investigatio into a hush money payment, mad to the adult film star storm daniels back in 2016 as of right, now we do not kno what specific crime or crime the vice president's bee charged with, but we shoul know more on tuesday, when i

going to one of trump's lawyers, he's expected to be arraigned. and we do know that alvin bragg, i've been focusing on a felony charge of falsifying busines records which carries a maximu prison sentence of four year we will forget the possibl prison sentence, here's what w can come expect in coming days it's trump so hundreds himself to authorities he will be take into custody like any othe person charged with a crime an then most likely have hi mugshot taken as fingerprint snapped. however unlike any other ordinary citizen, he doesn't d it alone it's gonna do so compete at all times by th secret service, it's part of a protective detail, they've bee coordinating with authoritie in new york about the unique circumstances of a secre service protects, we facin legal action after that will be arraigned i court, we'll hear the charge and enter plea, since that indictment likely kit contains only on violent charges, the e president will most likely b released on its ow recognizance from the waiting game, the

trial will take months t commence, so those wagner who' drive-in gave gun bucket fro west palm beach florida, not from far from where his name i mar-a-lago residence, garamend start with you because there's discussion, now the manhatta da has confirmed that there ar in conversation and show protective detail and others there's not a conversation between trump's detail, and th da is a whole lot of peopl involved, in a surrender and a arraignment would look like. >> yeah pretty much ever security agency that you can think of in the new york cit area, is involved with this. the joint terrorism task force the nypd, the secret service regional entities as well. -- he made mar-a-lago's estate, drive nine minutes fro mar-a-lago to the palm beach international airport. get on this plane there, the palm beach international airport flight to new york are

airport and get there either b what he caved or chalk or to lower manhattan through th streets laurin go to the stree attorney's office at the courthouse there that's where he will b arraigned were told on tuesday it's very specific set o events that are going to happen this is something thos conversations have bee happening among those agencies for sometime now in the even this would happen tonight an indictment could actuall happen if you listen to donald trum and in fact it could be 3 am o the east coast the donald trump is still awak and he's posing on his platfor truth social he saying quote where's hunter this is in reference to hunter biden the legal trouble he got in as the president son of all an effort to deflect t distract and some things become ver good at instantly is done many times in the past few years. -- he's been posting more than

dozen times over the past fe hours about the situation. we can read it portion of what he said on the statements her quoted democrats of light, she did, it's stolen in thei obsession of trying to get trump. but now they don't they think, people - and actively intellectuall interference and so and presented in ou history alley is reall fascinating that he's using th same playbook he always says it's calling it a witch hunt calling it democrati -controlled cities, are th ones doing this to him he feels like he's a victim, hear and his supporters thin that he could do no wrong. when he makes that trip from mar-a-lago to west palm beach, it's very likely he will pas dozens and dozens of trump supporters, and spend almost every single day, on a bridg that separates west palm beach from palm beach, they're flyin trump related flags, they ar playing country music, it' really one woman said, it's no a protest, it's a party. it's really how the trum supporters view this and there

is reporting the forme president. >> ivan, you've covered a lo of this over the years, people at waco what's going on here donald trump leans very heavil into this base he speaks grievance politics the goes back we - but there's something going on here something symbiotic allow donald trump and his supporter not to address the fact that i might even a crime or undoing. as jonathan allen said i'll ge a chance to get clear my name. no that's being talked about tonight. i >> was like no justice wil prevail on the republican side >> now in the campaign they ra 2016 in 2020 that filler clinton did couple of hours ago quot tweeted an old donald trum tweet and set in which he said in all caps law in order here.

because for the supporters o donald trump i think it's important w continually come back to thi idea here, but they have put trust in donald trump, that is difficult for i think you an me to even understand they are not tapping into the traditional news when the fallen right-wing propaganda out let's fine newsmax, oan we we - further solidifies in thes folks minds, don trump is th one who is under attack, and therefore the ire as well. so despite the fact that you and i are reading and seeing and the charges and sentencing them the fdny, ami, an publishing company international acquire. laying out in their ow cooperating agreement, acknowledging wrongdoing, folk aren't saying that would you even bring it up t

them, they're completely out o the no, and so it's hard because sometimes i feel lik when i ask folks about specifi facts, we guess was no appearing on truth so social we we >> honor screen says donald trump indicted, and on fiv screen, it says third worl banana republic. we don't generally cal developing countries benigne focus anymore, says th entirety of the narrative. sony is broken in our countr through the demanded on trump. >> let's look at the reality here that we know from documents we when - they said in august of 2015, there is michael cohen, davi pecker, a publisher that

national enquirer, who met wit a trump campaign official. we now know that the trump campaign official, was donal trump himself here and yet, what do you not see o fox news a recognition of that here >> because these three peopl met cut a deal, that would ostensibly be helpful to donal trump in a close election. >> in august of 2015, they set up an agreement that the publisher of the nationa enquirer, would go and try t catch and kill stories lik stormy daniels, like karen mcdougal's, and it would be at coordination, when year later, that's exactly what happened karen mcdougal's story, an stormy daniels story, and, it' important to note, david pecker, just a couple of days ago, o monday before the grand jury voted to indict. he went for a second time, before the grand jury, david pecker is important, because his company, is alread acknowledged that quote, the want to buy these stories. quote, let me find her my notes.

hold on one second here. i'm gonna come back to you here, but essentially what they said is that it is intended t influence the 2016 election. >> so back to the grand jury >> so that is a new knowledg meant by david pecker publicly here so those were the realities -- >> so don trump can fight this if you once. we - that's not what you're getting even in mainstream conservativ media tonight. let alone far-righ propagandists. conservative outlets we. we could see michael cohen kin of into question recently. we - frankly we've seen all the evidence we haven't seen all

the evidence that laid alvin bragg here michael cohen says we haven' seen it. we - know to file these charges the clearly have seen facts that i frankly believe the most folks who are going to those trump rallies -- >> are not encountering anyway >> let's bring into that conversation caroline form united states attorney for the southern district of californi and an msnbc legal analyst david cay johnston, specia disney - welcome to all three of yo thank you for being with us. carolyn let me start with yo because as van and i were just saying if you read through th commentary for elected republicans. let's forget about fox news in oan and newsmax. free the commentary from elected republicans tonight. you'd be forgiven for thinking that there's nothing to do wit the law illegality breaking law or crime involved in

anything that happened tonight >> yeah so that's why we hav the legal system - but if this case goes to trial we end up with a jury of 12 wh sits in a courtroom listens to the evidence and goes into a room by themselves without influence from outside resources or sources and they talk among -- that's why we have the syste we have. as we heard from many people tonight it's absolutel imperative that we lead th league we -- even suzannah birds of a feather we most likely in his business an financial life, now become

incredibly relevant to the trial because if the charger we understand right now when wants to know is donald trum in his organization had history of it because an weisselberg. obviously and there's been a civil trial going on unite states, how donald trump use two sets of books, is centra to what happened with stormy daniels, and whether donal trump's guilty in this , evidently they have far more than michael cohen's testimony they've got records, one of th things i've consistently sai is when this indictment came ali, it wouldn't be a single thread going to stormy daniels, and which trump can say oh, i wa trying to hide his for my wife or is a mistake. it would be a fabric and i fact there are 34 counts donald has been falsifie business records, and lying in government proceedings, for al

of the 35 years that i'v written about him. and nothing has ever happene to it from doing this. it's a style of doing things the man beat for federal grand juries, in his theory. he didn't have anythin happened to him, over hi involvement in sales tax cheating, where that he came and should've gone to jail we shouldn't be surprised that the world of donald is, he's got to come to america that donald trump has engage in behavior that is unlawful it's a misdemeanor, not on its face in new york, combined wit effort to cover up or furthe another crime, became a felony i think in the indictment, we're gonna be very informed about how donald really does business >> something you tweeted earlier is that the trump team caught off guard by news in th

indictment your reporting indicates the learned about from new yor times. tell me about it, because we only learned about a potential indictment because donald trum -- only said he was gonna b arrested last, tuesday - he below >> so was gonna say look, i wa on the phone with a senior trump advisor, literally as news broke, i can kind of hear on the other end i'm going, oh you know it's this breaking, news item from the new yor times, and i like all my god i'm not to call you right back which of course he never calle right, back is the news as wha it was but this is kind of the patter of what trump and his adviso been trying to grapple with large two weeks. you know, including from tha first post that you mention, when you put on truth social there is gonna be restaurant tuesday. that was nothing more than him responding to news reports, of an increased security, at th

courthouse in manhattan. we >> -- 30 minutes on how to go ahea on the front, before the new leaked carolyn, i will talk about where this goes. we have a great deal of fait and legal system don trump has not under facts, the fact i'm gonna have this chance that my day in court, and clear my name have gon down this separate road that i sort of manifesto tonight on fox news and i want to pla something but i want to viewer listen to is what dom tucker carlson says right at the en of the commentary listen t this >> talking about my greatest

fear is the too many americans too many republicans are aslee in the light and don't understand what's going on tha they don't wake up and don't know what time it is we will find ourselves on the path t one party state an authoritarian government >> yeah, probably not the best time to give up to a 15, i think most people know that. >> and he said, this is tucker carlson, saying to his hug audience probably not the best time t give up your ear eye 15. and i think people most people know that. carol, these kinds of do whistles worries me. >> oh it's extremely concernin it's hard for me to comprehend how host can say something lik that there's no question the this i an attempt to turn this into something much less legal an much more political and in thi case actually violent. and that's just astonishing. there is no rule of law, it th

people who are watching th proceedings i've been told not to give out their firearms i just astonishing, personally and never seen anything like it >> ron hilliard, i just wann talk about this, because the one thing we don't want to donate in this country, is mor political violence what is happening in new yor city there has been aware that went out to all police to come in dressed by sunrise tomorrow. >> in the reform by sunris tomorrow i was down before coming t join you on set, and lower manhattan. manhattan district attorney' office where we saw alvin brag depart, whose whisked away quickly inside of a motorcad here today it's right across the street i the court where we expec donald trump to go, and be worried, if you refused a. this, is when we're talkin about security here, there's a recognition that this is not necessarily, january 6th mob not should be anticipated.

as these one-off attackers here we watch nancy pelosi's ha been almost be hit by a hammer we watched as an fbi office in ohio a man attacked with a gun trying to break in and takedown fbi agents. we've seen in just the pas several months one off attacks and individuals inspired by th likes of donald trump. that there is a deep state there is attempting to undermine him in a political movement here. and so when you look here in lower manhattan, there's som acknowledgment for the new yor police department, but the district attorney's office, of the security threats that ar posed already. manhattan district attorne alvin bragg's office said they received hundreds of threats i the recent weeks there is reason to be concerned, and that is why hillary begins that way >> in the wake of a re-poste don trump put up of him with a

baseball, that next to an imag of alvin bragg, which he too down on the vice floor ver quickly. >> he suggested that there i can be death and destruction years of turmoil, chaos, and hatred, i asked entrepreneurs, plain i would with him fro waco texas back to florida here, i asked him about, the potential death and destruction, i suggested, i'm not for violence, but folks are upset. as my mom is talking when i wa young,, it's important you sai don't use violence, he's suggested that hey, -- >> van, thank you, we're gonna continue with carole hugo, right after the break, let m just tell you about alvin brag he's been harassed's mom said, and threaten threa investigation of donald trump, and he now faces potential raf fr gomop leaders, and discus that next.

your brother has landed in the dark lands. they're under bowser's control. [ screaming ] hang on, luigi. [ ominous music playing ] [ screaming ] yes! fire! [ chuckling ] all right we're back with more coverage on donald trump's indictment, back with me carolyn, former united state attorney, dedicate johnson professor syracuse college o law, and you go low, o political investigations reporter with the guardian carol, there've been a few responses from some of trump's potential i prominence in th 2024 election, ron desanti said here,, there's a lot here

i want you to help us the code he says the soils back the manhattan district attorney, has consistently bent law, t downgrade fennel in these an excuse criminal misconduct, ye now he is stretching the law t target political opponents florida will not assist an extradition request, given the pressure will circumstances at issue, with the soros backed and hatton prosecutor, and his political agenda, no lot t deal with, including the attacking of a prosecutor, you know i had a chance to talk little bit about that on the weekend, what is this business we haven't heard anything abou extradition, and the need fo extradition, we understand tha the manhattan district attorney, through a lot of securit agencies, is dealing with th trump security detail, and tha in theory donald trump shoul present himself and surrende on tuesday, tell me about what this extradition talk is >> well the reference to a extradition really has to do with the fact that, he was indicted by the district attorney in the state of new york, and florida is a

different jurisdiction these are state prosecutions is no at the federal government wher it's all one united states, so if donald trump decided that h was not going to self-surrender, and fly himself up to manhattan, to self surrender to the criminal courts there then the district attorney in new yor has to pursue essentially an extradition it's a treat between the states or among th states, where somebody was indicted in one state they hav to make a request to the other state, where the defendant i located, the defendant then ha the right to appear in court i that state, in this instance i would be florida, and a judg has to find that there i enough cause, in other words the charges are charges that would be recognized unde florida state law as well, and he has to order the defendan removed, to the state of new york, now as you noted, in thi case it doesn't appear, that methodology is gonna be used

it does appear that donald trump is going to voluntaril appear in the state of new york, and avoid the spectacle of a extradition, but it probably sounds good, for a politicia to say, we're not going to agree to this extradition with in this case it just appears t be a fiction >> because we have n information at all, from the trump team that, there's any issue with that, but of course anything can happen these days hugo lowell, one of the things of almost talking about, vandalism waco texas whe donald trump had his rally thi past weekend, and a time tha they are commemorating the 30t anniversary, of the traged down and waco, that was tragedy in which a cult, was facing off against federal agents, the bureau of alcoho tobacco and firearms, behind donald trump on the stage, i imagery of january 6th, that has now become in blazoned and on trump's supporters. ron remain at the rally ther

people who had alvin bragg's picture on their shirts, w this is now sort of skirting align between politica movement, and raleigh, and personality cult >> yeah, and trump wants tha way, and the trump campaign wa that way, for that rally, th campaign was talking about printing t-shirts, that had th words, i will be a rupture bucshon. i am retribution, and this i the kind of mentality that trump wants, because it's also the kind of mentality that trump needs, if he's gonna galvanize that 30% of the maga base, he is really looking a his supporters, as the pressur campaign that he can use t potentially get out of crimina culpability, when this was a pattern on january 6th, as you and i have talked repeatedly over the past couple of years, and this is the exact same playbook, that he if he can he

wants to use again, and it makes with, it's very overt, i think sometimes we lose sigh of how overt it, is becaus trump doesn't so repeatedly, and so openly but this i exactly what it appears to be, he's trying to users supporters, to galvanize political movement, to try to get himself out of hot water. >> david you wrote about this, you wrote and i quote, can h repeat his success, but masses a maga fill the streets in new york and other cities, bacon two more cities, and use force to break any prosecution o their hero, i think not, and such a killer would show tha is once powerful hold on the disaffected, has waned relentlessly shoveling towards an importance, you don't think this is gonna manifest in that you don't think we're gonn take up arms for donald trum here >> i think there will be blood and there will be individuals, they're gonna commit horrifi crimes, because that's the kin

of people who we see do thes things, but a movement two things ali, revolutions ar led by educated people, fide castro for example as a lawyer and young people, january 6th, we are middle aged people. and now that they've seen, there are people going to jail the government i systematically trying to identify these people, prosecute them, get them convicted, and they're getting long jail sentences, that's ca inhibit a mass movement of violence, there will b protests, and there will b noisy, i'm also certain, tha there will be individual horrible acts that may b directed towards people have nothing to do with the case, but somehow represent la enforcement, and one way o another, but secondly, trump's crowds are shrinking, the crow he had at waco, he claimed thousands of people, i've sa with another person, and w

very carefully study the photos, i don't think he had 200 people in waco caroline, part of the proble here is, people davis says people are facing arrest for their participation january six, that is translate into a lot o commentary and tonight fro elected republicans about an authoritarian state, the weaponization of the governmen against people, so the ver thing that a lot of people are worried that the republica party in donald trump, would have done, or might do if he's reelected, is the same languag that they are hearing about th justice system tonight, tw groups of people are looking a the same thing, and coming t entirely by coming to the same conclusion about the other side. >> yeah he to selling a broken record on this, but this is wh we have the system of justic we have, it was just about justice where yes, the distric attorney or federal prosecutor in the case of a federal case, can ask a grand jury to bring charge, but it has to convince

a grand jury, just made up o ordinary citizens, to agre that there is probable cause to bring a charge. once that happens, the justice system the wheels continue t turn, and ultimately, if the defendant does want to plead guilty, it goes to, a jury o one's peers, that jury has t find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and it has to find that unanimously, that's an extraordinarily high burden, that the government has to meet, to convict somebody, so this i not an authoritarian state where one person or one part and throw somebody in jail pursuant to their own whims, there is actually a vali justice system, in which one i entitled to be judged by a jur of one's peers, and that is so important, and that's th difference between the unite states of america, and a authoritarian state. >> in your experience as a prosecutor, gobbler charge t make a public statement is

often some version of, now m story is gonna get out, i'm no my day in court, i'll be gla to clear my name, i'm gonna be victorious, strangely this i all about grievance, it's no actually about that, donal trump is innocent until proven guilty in that system that you described, that is a prett high bar >> i would think that would be more relevant in some of the commentary, than what i' hearing. >> it's not just relevant, tha is the whole story, a defendan has no obligation to testify on his or her own behalf, he has the right to remain silent but if you wishes, he ca either get on the stand intel' story himself, or he can put o witnesses to tell the story fo him, or he can cross examine governments witnesses, that is his absolute right, and that i the right that the judge wil enforce, at the criminal trial so again a big differenc between america's criminal justice system and

authoritarian state. >> thanks to all of, you caroline david cay johnston an hugo lowell, we appreciate you analysis tonight, we he avmuch more of our breaking coverag of the indictment of donal trump, coming out key. your 995 plan fits my budget just right. excuse me? aren't you jonathan from tv, that 995 plan? yes, from colonial penn. i love your lifetime rate lock. that's what sold me. she thinks you're jonathan, with the 995 plan. -are you? -yes, from colonial penn. we were concerned we couldn't get coverage, but it was easy with the 995 plan. -thank you. -you're welcome. i'm jonathan for colonial penn life insurance company. this guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance plan is our #1 most popular plan. it's loaded with guarantees. if you're age 50 to 85, $9.95 a month buys whole life insurance with guaranteed acceptance. you cannot be turned down for any health reason.

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the white house, many ar wondering.

mr. trump is not a norma candidate, he's already said that he would not abandon th race, if he were charged, an the case might even help the in the short term, as he paint himself, as a political martyr indictment also raises the prospect of an explosive backlash from mr. trump, w have to muses legal woes t stoke the rage, of die har supporters, and quote, we're back with one hillyard, an john allen john, let me start with you on this one does this help or hurt donal trump's political prospects? >> it's a multi layere question, ali -- [inaudible >> i can only hear about hal of what he saying. don, we're gonna fix the audio i mean a top the blood for a second - because everybody decides to hear every part of what he's saying van, thanks to shoot for

second if you turned on watc all the coverage on all th networks, he saw some a little different on cnn, they already had mike pence looked for town hall, with wolf blitzer mike pence was saying a lot of things one of the things he said, and it is getting the bring to mik pence for sick, he said th unprecedented indictment of th former president united states and campaign finance issue, is outrageous now there is no love los between donald trump right now mike pence said that donal trump, threaten the safety o his family, mike pence went ou of his way on january 5th, 24t and fifth, of 2001, to not d donald trump's bidding, he's talked about the tension between them, and yet he doe everything possible to not testify against donald trump he's been subpoenaed, he's now pushing back on that, tonigh he told wolf blitzer that this is unprecedented, >> and his family went through a hill, th events around january 6th. >> and they put out a gallow for the guy, you and i are tight, but if you put out

gallows for me, -- felicia the charge you for something i'd be okay. >> mike pence is also very closely, he made a decision to join don trump on and take i back in 2016, i was there an indiana and a decision was made, and he excuse donald trump's profanity, and his entire past saying robin's, racing t suggest the back and forth ted cruz at the time this is a man who's justified lot of actions, notices to where we are now, because it's important because mike pence here, to wolf blitzer's credit he said look, wasn't the prosecutor tomatoes decision to, it is a grand jury, 23 major injuries, take a majority of them to issue the true bill fo donald trump here, and mik pence though, is thi individual who is appealing th judge's ruling, forcing him to testify in special counsel's case when i was in iowa live's month with mike pence i said okay, that doesn't preclude yo from voluntarily going towards departure justice?

and why not, mike pence has no clear answer because he's stil trying to figure out his political future here and fo mike pence here, this is not a political statement here, think jon allen i think you an i, transparency and truth, tell us who you are, tell us your experience, and mike pence, yes he wrote a book about it but leaves the last hour was talking about that phone call, the morning of january six before you headed out to the capitol, he has still not told us >> so don trump and mike pence had a phone call people were i the room with trump, so there' been some account of wha happened on trump side of th conversation >> correct, pence left the room, and he has not gone into detail, exactly about what donald trum told him that day, befor everything that mike pence did do on january 6th, he said tha history will hold donald trump accountable, he said this week while the question is isn' that the justice system'

responsibility, and to the public when one individual tha was so intrinsically involve in that moment, that he ha said was a tarnished america i a present moment, does he no have a responsibility to share the public everything that h experienced. that is what we are working on >> for people like my pants, w don't want to see donald trump pianist president united states, but like you understand thos who would rather be him, rhond santos said last night tha this was backed tissue tierney has consistently spent a lot t excuse colonel conduct, and no he's stretching the law to target a political opponent. , given the questionable circumstances that issued, thi horseback manhattan prosecutor in a political agenda, why wil no one crossed and trump, even though donald trump is being accused of charges, in relat to something we know happened. in other words, we don't kno what the criminality of it is, but we know that stormy daniel got a payment, from michae cohen, those reimbursed by donald trump, you make of that what you will. why is this happening?

>> look, how it is fair in a general election, not clear. in a republican primary, quinnipiac released a poll yesterday, they thought wa notable, nationally, republica voters, 75% of them said, they have donald trump would be criminally charge, that thos charges should not disqualif him from being the republica nominee for president, 75% they see those polls, we saw those polls, they know wha that means and just like after the mar-a-lago search last august, the public and circled the wagon to come to fentany trump they've propped up the idea of the deep state for years, it's too late to go bac on that, they told everybody they told the republican voters, this is real, it's really hard thing to do a one 80, mike pence to finish this up, mik pence back in the wall stree journal wrote the story abou michael cohen stormy daniels hush money arrangement he called it at the time baseless allegations years later nothing's changed.

it's hard for mike pence t also changes to him. >> yeah it feels like a hard couple weeks to mike pence right now he's trying to b everything to everybody. we're still waiting to see whether he will be compelled t testify. i've lied surrounded back in a moment with our continuing coverage of the indictment o donald trump we actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works.

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indictment of the former president, i want to run through a brief of who's who in this particular case. you all will remember stormy daniels, the adult film star who said trump invited her t his home pilgrim for dinner, and sex in 2006. and for michael cohen, trump's former personal attorney and fixer, whose sentenced to thre years in prison, after he pled guilty to nine criminal counts including one count related to a 130,000 dollar hush mone payment made to stormy daniels which he has said that trump told him to pay. -- i wanna bring back john here late into an, alan john, you are transporting >> now you just pretend yo don't know how to use, thing because it moving around in shot, we've had some phylactery's

i'll, talk to me about the state of the race, and how everybody reacts to that because van and i have bee talking a little bit about rhonda santos's reaction, mike pence's reaction these are all guys who love to see donald trump go down but they are not gonna cross him o his people for now >> i mean absolutely not, think the expectation is tha in the short term, this is really gonna help trump, as he tries to get the republica nomination you, know what remains is th question of whether if he wins the republican nomination, whether he can win the general election as a candidate who is unde indictment, potentiall convicted, potentially under multiple indictments, but fo the short term, this is gonn help him with republicans, and the evidences how fast these republican leaders, includin some of his potential rivals have been to get out there and defend him >> it's wild, it was instant and there's a real pattern t hit john including the reference to a far-right radical, socialist soros backe

politicized manhattan district attorney it's out of a textbook, like everybody scalping everyon else's tweets and statements not talking about my day i court, not talking about the justice system, a timeout is until proven guilty, nothing but the fact that donald trump go through an entire trial and be acquitted on the other side none of that it's all a witch hunt. >> yeah, i mean the castle o adjectives that you threw ou there for hearing from republicans, it's not gonna be equal in terms - snuggle question of whethe donald trump is guilty of crime here they can attack the prosecutor all they want. a jury is going to be walled off from that and then look at the facts of the case. >> you know van, the argumen that they may have, is that th public all knew about stormy daniels, before the election they just didn't know she ma have been paid off but they knew, they knew the

story, and they still voted fo donald trump issue, is why are you charging you like this. i did a people tell me tonight if you wanted to see, donald trump faced accountability and justice, may not have been the place you would have wished it started. and i think there is a loc when you look at this, it's th why did this not take plac from the federal prosecutors after the biden administration took over the department o justice in 2021? and those are very questions the frankly we don't hav answers to at this time. why is this coming up only after he launched hi presidential campaign in november well, we don't have answers to that we know that the manhattan district attorney's office essentially stole this investigation last year. mark pomerantz released a whol book, condemning that decision resigning from the office. there's a lot of legitimate, serious questions about this those are very separate from the charges that we should seek. >> and the trial that we may see.

the trial will have evidence >> this is a situation where you have two things to it once question about why took so long, what led to the process, but also there could be very wel legitimacy, and ultimately it'll be up to a jury to decide the political into this, the part part for under, santo mike, pence others they watched this play out, is ted, cruz back in may 2016, was there. he called donald trump, amoral a serial philanderer a republican rival of donald trump's already tried that before and guess what it didn't work. republicans a majority of them -- this time around that's th question potentially could the guilty charge sought that >> so everything that everyone -- i think i saw don bacon saying why don't we see how this play a. -- that's the one republican i've

seen who's not said, one o those things that i said earlier, about a socialist soros backed, far-left radical witch hunt all that kind o stuff. that's not having on that, front and certainly haven' seen it from anybody who's won enough against trump nikki haley said, this is more about vindman's about justice, i read you what rod desantis said, mike pence, who i thin would very much like to thro donald trump under the bus will not do it >> he lived through it, he knows what actually looks like >> he was there, and i don't know it's confounding. just a reminder, donald trum does deny any wrongdoing he also denies that ther wasn't an affair with stormy daniels. despite the indictment, he i innocent until proven guilty indictment is not a court case getting an indictment does not have the standards of a lega case all it means is that he coul face charges now van, jonathan, thanks guys coming up, next more breakin news coverage of florida and trump indictment, next hour.

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