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45th president used one tactic, over and over again, to try and get what he wanted, bullying. sometimes, it came in the form of want -- cruelty and bigotry directed towards everyone from war heroes, to disabled reporters, to judges of mexican heritage. >> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured. you've gotta see this guy, oh, i don't know what i said. i don't remember. we are building a wall, he's a mexican, we are building a wall between here and mexico. >> sometimes it came in the form of hostile exchanges with the press. >> you know you are a fake, you know that. it's okay, i know you're not thinking. you never do. >> i'm sorry? >> no, go ahead. you are a rude terrible person. >> sometimes trump recruited

other people to aid in the bullying, like encouraging crowds to beat up protesters, or getting fox news to pressure republican senators to oppose his impeachment. from the day he entered the presidential race, to his final days in office, trying to reverse the results of the 2020 election, trump thought he could get what he wanted by pressuring and intimidating the people around him. even if it meant tearing apart american democracy. and now, his lawyers have been forced to try and defend that tactic in his january 6th criminal case in washington d. c.. two ex ago, trump's lawyers tried to argue that trump should be, quote, absolutely and -- from prosecution. because all his false public statements about voter fraud and the aftermath of the 2020 election, all of those statements were actually part of his official duties as president. their argument was grandiose,

and maybe just a little unhinged. here's an excerpt. the tradition of presidents making public statements on matters of national concern encompasses at some of the most historic presidential actions in american history, including george washington's farewell address, and abraham lincoln's gettysburg address. last night, special counsel jack smith's team offered a fairly blistering response. in staking his claim, trump purports to draw a parallel between his fraudulent efforts to overturn the results of an election that he lost, and the likes of abraham lincoln's gettysburg address and george washington's farewell address. these things are not to like. so that's jack smith making it crystal clear, in case it wasn't already clear to just about everybody, that one of these things is not like the others. it seems, as we sit here on october 20th, 2023, that trump's intimidation tactics are failing on several fronts right now. today, in the georgia conspiracy case, a third codefendant, kenneth chesebro, has now defied trump by taking

a plea deal from prosecutors which is seriously problematic for trump, and which we will have a lot more on later this hour. but the place where trump's legacy, the legacy of bullying is facing its most humiliating defeat right now, is in congress. for years, donald trump's protegee, and bluster in intimidation, has been ohio congressman, jim jordan. trump even awarded jim jordan the presidential medal of freedom for jordan's service as trump's defender in congress, and an avatar of trump's rage. so we are clear here, this award is typically reserved for icons, people like michael jordan, and maya and gulu. jim jordan has not passed a single bill in his entire congressional career. now, trump endorsed jordan in his bid for speaker of the house, and the campaign to make jim jordan speaker of the house has been full of bullying and intimidation. republicans who opposed to jordan received threatening emails from a fox news host, pressuring them to support jim jordan.

multiple republicans and their spouses received death threats from trump jordan supporters. one member of congress even got evicted from his own office in his home district. yet, none of it has worked, none of it. instead, all week, we have watched jim jordan slowly bleed support in his bid for speaker. that all culminated in today's third floor vote, which saw mr. jordan received the fewest votes of any speaker candidate since the house became a 435 member body in the year 1929. and man, from there, it only got worse. republicans then met behind closed doors, and voted to officially a nominate jim jordan, to depose him as their nominee. in today's public speaker vote on the house floor, 25 republicans broke with their party to oppose jim jordan. but behind closed doors, jim jordan got 86 votes, which is less than half of the republican conference. 112 republicans voted by secret ballot to reject jim jordan as

their nominee. >> i told the conference it was an honor to be there, speaker designate. but i thought it was important that we all know, get an answer to the question if they wanted me to continue in that, in that role. so i put the question to them, they made a different decision. >> the most popular republican in the united states congress was just knife to by secret ballot in a private meeting in the basement of the capitol. it's as swampy as swamp gets. jim jordan deserved better than that. >> did he go? jim jordan's losses a win for opponents of trump style threats, and intimidation. but it is definitely not a sign that the republican party has its act together. in fact, it is quite the opposite. republicans are now going back

to square one. they have no one to replace jim jordan. instead, almost a dozen candidates are actively considering running for that position. it is literally open season in the house. having gone home for the weekend, i mean, why not? republicans planned to hold yet another candidate forum behind closed doors, next week. the republican party is headless, and even its de facto leader is losing his edge. joining me now are charlie dent, former republican congressman from pennsylvania, and executive director and vice president of the institute congressional program, and tim miller, msnbc political analyst and writer-at-large -- thank you guys both for being here. charlie, i would love to know, as someone who has served in

congress, how jim jordan and his allies made such a catastrophic misjudgment of his fellow party members disdain for him? >> well, it shouldn't be any surprise. i served with jim jordan, i know him on a personal level. we were friendly. but politically, we were miles apart. the problem is now jim jordan, he came in there, really to tear things down. he wasn't a bridge builder. most people who ascended into leadership positions in the house conference are out there working with members, trying to help them as best they can. jordan, that was never his style. so it should be no surprise to anybody that he was taken down. not by fringe elements of the party, i would argue institutionalists, pragmatists, largely, members of the house appropriations committee, who for years had to endure jim jordan's attempt to blow up their spending bills, and here's the people who wanted to govern responsibly, and do the nations work. they paid him back these last few days. because they said enough.

they will only go so far, but they won't do that. so, i am not at all surprised that jim jordan didn't have that goodwill within the conference. behind closed doors, but the number of people who opposed him went up by four fold. a lot of courage in a secret ballot. i'm not at all surprised by that. >> yeah, the closed-door vote, tim, tells you all you need to know. having said that, it does look like the campaign of fear and intimidation did not work this time around. i wonder if you extrapolate any further meeting from that? >> well, i think that there's a two sided coin. on the one hand, it's good that jim jordan went down. the bullying didn't work. don bacon didn't fold because his wife got -- thank goodness for that. i think it shows that there's a limit to these kinds of threats and that maybe some of the republican party aren't a spineless at this they might have seemed during the trump years. i think all of that is good

news and good progress within the republican conference. on the other hand, going back to the secret ballot, the billion kind of worked, because only 20 some odd, 20, 25 people voted against jim jordan with their name next to it. but over 100 people voted against him, or abstained, in the private ballot. that leads you to believe there are a lot of people that didn't want to vote for him, but maybe they weren't intimidated by the bullying, per se. maybe there was one part of it, but i think one thing they're worried about is the voters. their own voters, and what their response would be. i think that is the key element here. i think donald trump was able to weaponize his own voters, his own base voters, against these politicians. and intimidate them. in some ways, from fear of primaries. but in other ways, from fear of physical violence. i don't know that jim jordan has the hold over the voters that donald trump does. so i don't think that this means that we are out of the

woods on this front. but i do think it was an encouraging day. >> tim, just to follow-up on that. i am certainly not proposing that the age of intimidation is over. but i would suggest to you that the person who does it most effectively is donald trump. and everyone else sure tries, jim jordan included, maybe even some of the candidates for the republican presidential nomination. but it's really trump saying. he deploys it to a degree of efficacy that no one else can seem to replicate. >> he does. he didn't really seem to have his heart in this one. maybe we are in a different place, if trump was really campaigning for jordan, or up on the hill the last few days, and said he's been on the courtroom and on the golf course, it seems like. he endorsed jordan, but didn't seem to put a lot of him behind it. trump, this has been trevor since 2015. i remember being on cable and discussing trump telling the crowd to knock the hell out of him, with regards to the protesters at his events. that shocked people. that was a scene change and acceptable rhetoric in our political discourse, eight years ago.

he's been honing that skill ever since. obviously culminating january 6th. but i expect if he's going to be the nominee, which it looks like he is, we're going to see a lot more of that in the coming year. >> charlie, let me ask you about what the future is for house republicans. just from the outside, the party is in such profound disarray. i think we have 11 people considering running for speaker. how does this problem get solved among republicans only? are democrats going to have to be involved in the solution here? or do you think the party can really actually solve this problem on its own? >> well, the house republican conference is deeply fractured. i've been saying for sometime now that hakeem jeffries is probably going to have to come in and help solve this problem. they need a, basically, a bipartisan solution, and a power sharing agreement. by that, i -- if they empowered him on a basis, i think they could have some democratic votes, they're going to need to do something like that. more pragmatic institutionalist republican, not an election denier. split the committees evenly,

despite the senate in the last session. we're each side had even representation. -- maybe give the democrats shared judiciary committee just for fun. they could do all kinds of things to share power. now, i think jeffries, he's had to help them on the debt ceiling, the budget agreement, as well as the recent continuing resolution to fund the government. they're going to need his help again. they might as well just accept that reality. because i don't see any particular member right now getting 217 votes from republicans only. maybe tom emmer has a shot, but whoever the republicans were to elect, is going to have to go around and cut a deal by november 17th to defund the government. they're going to need jeffrey to help. that individual will probably suffer the same filled as mccarthy. the place is deeply fractured. this is a fight between the institutionalists and the trump populist wing of the party. i'm glad that we are actually having this fight. this fight should've happened years ago. but it's happening now, because of enough of them are saying we

cannot function like this. that populist weighing is really about tearing things down. it doesn't have a policy agenda. these institutionalists are truly want to govern, and they want to governing philosophy based on ideas. so this -- >> charlie, let me just ask you though, you're putting a lot of stock in the moderates here, right? pushing back, not electing jordan. they are getting death threats. it seems like they've been pushed to their limit. why have they not yet to be made and treaties to the democrats? why is there not a serious sort of migration of moderate republicans towards a bipartisan power sharing agreement with democrats, at this point. what is standing in their way? the house has not done business for two weeks. there are urgent matters to attend to. it doesn't look like the problem can be solved internally. what is stopping them from talking to democrats in a series fashion, and just being done with this problem? >> i think they realize that if

they take this step, that their political careers may be over. but sometimes, you have to risk your job in order to save it. this is one of those times. you need to say that not just for yourself, but for the good of the country, and frankly the good of the party, at the end of the day. so i think that's what the fear is. i know they're going to be savage and attack, but by the way, this bullying, where they secure the steve bannon weighing on all these members, and the echo chamber starts screaming at them, that was a complete and utter disaster. because these leadership fights are typically family fights. they are inside the room, type deals. these are not meant to be fought out in public. i think there's a lot of bitterness and resentful. you're going after, say, don bacon, he used to our store on his shoulder. he was a general in the air force. that stuff is gonna work, especially attacking his wife. i think right now, the pragmatic members realize that this is our moment, this is a hill to die on. i think enough of them are going to make those types of overtures. i think they may have even done so, i've not spoken with him. but he's been offering this

idea -- he knows he needs democratic votes. i have a feeling there have been back channel conversations, but nothing public yet. >> tim, what does it tell you that the people who may save the party, and actually elect a speaker who can help govern would be ousted from their positions by -- republicans would be basically killed off by republicans, figuratively speaking, for doing the right thing here. >> it tells us where the energy and where the power within the party. at least, for now, right? i love her to change, but if the maga folks can throw these guys overboard for just trying to be the basic amount of covering, making sure we support israel, i think that tells you a lot about where the party. as >> charlie dent and tim miller, thank you both for joining me tonight. we will see what happens. we have lots more head. amid the chaos and despair, we have some good news for you. good news for you tonight, about the situation in the middle east. we are going to speak with a relative of the american hostages who were just released. but first, a third codefendant has taken a plea deal in fani willis's georgia election interference case and what does it mean for rudy giuliani, john eastman, and yes, donald trump? that is next. stay with us.

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guilty in georgia today to a felony count of conspiracy. chesebro pleaded guilty after reaching an agreement with prosecutors for which he will avoid prison. and this is a big deal on two fronts. for starters, up until now, no one has been really sure of exactly how to pronounce his last name. tonight, we finally have clarity. it is chesebro, not chesebro. secondly, and obviously, much more importantly, he's the second trump lawyer to plead guilty, and the third codefendant to take a deal. it's a big victory here for fulton county d. a. fani willis. as part of the deal, it's also required to testify truthfully against the other codefendants. including donald trump, and rudy giuliani. and it is clear that prosecutors are going to have a lot of questions on that front. peppered throughout the

indictment are examples of chesebro skimming with the former new york city mayor. on december 12th of 2020, chesebro met with the chair of the republican party in wisconsin, a man named bryan shipping. in that meeting, they, quote, discussed the december 14th 2020 meeting of trump fake elector nominees in that state. rudy giuliani joined the meeting by telephone, and stated that the media should not be notified that the fake elector meeting was taking place. a day later, on december 13th, 2020, chesebro sent another email to giuliani. this one outlined multiple strategies for disrupting and delaying the joint session of congress on january 6th 2020. the day congress was to certify the election for joe biden. that same day, chesebro sent an email to a trump campaign officials saying of another fake elector meeting, giuliani wants to keep this quiet until

after all the voting is done. and now, mr. chesebro will have to tell prosecutors what exactly happened behind those scenes, truthfully, and under oath. joining me now is former dekalb county d. a., gwen keyes, gwen, it's great to see you tonight. fortune has you in new york, so we can dig into this exclusive development, which seems meaningfully more perilous for donald trump than even maybe sidney powell or other flipped codefendants. because he's implicated in the same plot that chesbrough is. >> he is, if you look at the indictments of the former president, mr. giuliani, mr. eastman are all listed in this count, this is count 15 of the original indictment. if you notice with miss powell, they created a separate accusation to present misdemeanors. this is a felony, it's in the original document. it has several people named in the count as coconspirators. >> the fact that when you hear, when i heard chesebro was

pleading, out my thoughts immediately turned to giuliani, eastman, and trump. which is maybe why outside the court today chesebro's lawyers said he didn't snitch against anyone, he went in there, the expected responsibility. almost telegraphing to potential other defendants, i didn't snitch. and yet, he's going to be asked to snitch, isn't he? >> well, one of the conditions of this play is that he made an offer to the district attorney, and he has to testify against the other codefendants. we will see that what testimony is. certainly, we've seen d. a. willis, she's very smart, and she's very strategic. i cannot imagine she has allowed him not to provide incriminating evidence advanced other defendants. >> if you are rudy giuliani's lawyer right now, rudy giuliani, who has a hard time keeping lawyers, who is in financially dire straits, what would your advice -- is it a foregone conclusion? he's going to be under immense pressure to plead on himself. >> i think you are going to

start to see other defendants start to fall. remember the progression here. both miss powell and mr. chesebro, they had motions in front of the court. those motions did not go their way. then you say, within five or so days, that they've made the decision that they don't want to risk going to trial and possibly have a felony conviction with jail time. i think you are going to see that with mr. giuliani, and several of the other defendants as well. as their motions start to get decided. >> it is a big win for fani willis, as you say, because it's a -- she has two very important witnesses. but she also doesn't have to lay out her case, as she was going to have to, right? if the chesebro and powell case went to trial, as their spouse, to eminently, she would've had to reveal a lot of evidence, now she gets to keep that under the hood, as it were. >> not only does she get to keep it under the hood, now she has two more witness statements that she didn't have at the

beginning of this week. so, again she's building a stronger and stronger case against all of the 16 defendants that remain. we'll see what happens next. >> how does this detail -- i was asking this question yesterday with -- vis-à-vis the sidney powell agreement. how does this dovetail with jack smith's case? there's so much cross pollination in these two criminal indictments. >> there is, if you remember with jack smith's case, i wrote believe miss powell was coconspirator number three. mr. chesebro was unindicted coconspirator number five. if you look at both of their pleas, they were warned that pleading to this particular state court indictment might have other implications in the federal case. i think we are all waiting to see -- where these part of a global deal for either defendant? had there been discussions with mr. smith? we don't know at this point. >> what would be the telltale signs of a global deal, if there was one? >> well, i think you would see

maybe commitments to testify in the federal case. something along those lines, where there's a more direct tie. i'm just not aware of that so far. >> as you understand it, right now, we don't have dates for the rest of the defendants in the georgia case. >> right. >> do you think jack smith's case, which is set for march, is going to go before fani willis's case? >> i do think so. again, we don't have any other dates on the calendar for the state court case. what we do have is the court of appeals dealing with the removal issues in the december. i think that's going to take some time. probably will not have a decision that allows the defendants to file their pretrial motions in the state case before the federal case. i also know that there are certain rules where when you have a federal case like that coming up, the state cases have to yield. we will probably see jack smith's case got before some of the other defendants. >> when you say that, because i was talking to new york a. g., letitia james, she said, oh, if jack smith moves forward -- i'm paraphrasing here. effectively, if he moves forward with his case, i would assume that other das would stand down. that didn't happen. but it sounds like, finding fault, jack smith, the federal case, may go ahead of the state case anyway.

do you think that's something fani willis considered all along? >> well, remember, the reason these two defendants were on the calendar is because they filed a speedy trial demands. so miss willis was forced to be able to put those cases up, or risk losing them altogether. but she said from the beginning, she was ready to go. >> yeah, she called their bluff. >> exactly. now you see just how ready she was. >> that should be the bumper sticker on our car. you can see how ready i am. fani willis. dina. >> she's ready. >> ok gwen keyes, it's great to see you. thank you for helping me understand all of this. i appreciate it. there's still more to come tonight, including the release of two american israeli hostages from hamas captivity in gaza. what led to their release, and are there more freed hostages to come? and inside gaza, we will hear from those overwhelmed hospitals where doctors are performing surgeries by the light of their cell phones. that is next.

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northern gaza has a maximum capacity of 700 patients per day. but one surgeon there says that right now they are seeing it 3000 patients every day. the medical director of the hospital sent nbc news a devastating account of what it has been like. this is from last night. i will warn you, some of it is very disturbing. so if you would like to turn away, or turn down t volume, nois your chance to do so. >> sgery is being performed now in the corridors of the hospitals without anesthesia. yes, without anesthesia. saving lives of those o e -- who may have hope to live,

others are just left to die, to succumb to their des hundreds are tin the corridors of the hospitals in front of the operation rooms, and in the emergency rooms on the ground. majority of children. >> doctors without borders is warning that as of last night, that hospital, the al-shifa hospital, only had enough fuel to last 24 hours that most. and al-shifa is not alone. up and down the gaza strip, we are getting reports of hospitals that are out of supplies. some are doing surgery with only the lights of doctors mobile phones. some, don't even have water for medics to wash their hands. the medical coordinator for doctors without borders in gaza said that without fuel and water, and medical supplies, thousands of injured people are at risk of dying needless deaths, in the next few hours. meanwhile, more than 200 trucks full of fuel and water and

medicine and food are stuck being denied entry at the rafah crossing at gazis southern border. today was supposed to be the first day that it would be let through the crossing on the egypt gaza border, but negotiations between egypt, israel, the u.s., and the u. n., about how that aid gets through are still ongoing. the new york times reports that one of the main sticking point is that israel wants to be involved in inspections of the trucks, while the u. n. wants those inspectors to be independent. the times also reports that israel is also letting fuel, in -- against letting feel into gaza, worried it could be used by hamas. while the u. n. argues that fuel is needed to power gaza's hospitals. the u. n. secretary general, antonio guterres, was not the rafah crossing today to plead his case in person. >> we are witnessing a paradox,

behind these walls, we have 2 million people that is suffering enormously. that has no water, no food, no medicine. so these trucks are not just trucks, they are a lifeline. they are the difference between life and death for so many people. >> we have one more story out of gaza tonight. and amazingly, it is good news. two hostages have been freed by hamas. we will talk to a family member of those hostages, coming up next. lowering bad cholesterol can be hard, even with a statin. diets and exercise add to the struggle. today, it's possible to go from struggle to cholesterol success with leqvio. with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by 50% and keep it low with 2 doses a year.

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moment for a long time, two weeks. but i haven't been sleeping for two weeks, tonight i'm going to sleep good. i spoke with my daughter, earlier today. she sounds very good. she looks very good. she's very happy. and she's waiting to come home. i'm going to hug her and kiss her, and it's going to be the best day of my life. >> that was the father of one of the two american israeli hostages, speaking tonight after his daughter, and his ex-wife, were freed by their captors, the terrorist group hamas. this video, shot and released by hamas's military wing shows the moment when judith and natalie raanan, mother and daughter from evanston, illinois, were released to the red cross.

as you can see, hamas blurred the faces of its militants. the two freed hostages spoke on the phone this evening with president biden, who pledged his full support as they recover. about 200 more hostages are thought to be in the hands of hamas, and other militant groups, and ten americans are still unaccounted for. today, while announcing the release of the two americans, secretary of state, antony blinken, thanks to the government of qatar for their, quote, very important assistance the wall street journal's reporting today that another deal involving the u. s. israel and qatar would have led to the release of 50 hostages, but fell apart. joining us now is martin fletcher, former msn -- sorry, former nbc news correspondent and ten b. c. -- judith and natalie also happen to be members of martin's extended family. what a joyous moment this must be for you and your family, martin. i think we are also happy to

have this good news, in what is such a dark, dark moment. i know that they are extended family, but as someone related to them, and as a journalist, what questions do you have for them as they come back to america? >> i don't have any questions. i'm just thankful they are free, a live, apparently healthy, man uri spoke to his daughter. obviously full of questions, but they are going to be traumatized. >> of course. >> i would imagine the first thing they would do, if i was them, i'd get the heck out of dodge. go straight to the airport, come home. they were tourists in israel. they were visiting their grandmother, to celebrate her 85th birthday, when they were taken. >> i do wonder if there is concern about, there's obviously widespread concern about the hostages, and further concerned about the ground invasion and how that complicates the picture of releasing them. given the fact that this and mitchell, at least one of the

initial negotiations seems to have gone well, it's resulted in the release of two people. do you think this is going to put pressure on netanyahu to delay the ground invasion for some period of time, to left other ongoing negotiations workout? >> if there are ongoing negotiations, i mentioned one that fell through, then yes. but at the same time that is good for israel in one sense, because they need much better intelligence before they send their troops in on the ground. we know they completely failed in anticipating the attack in the first place. so the israeli intelligence services must be looking at the information they had before and reassessing everything. so the extra time probably plays into the hands of the israeli intelligence services. they don't want to send the troops in before they have as much information as possible. of course, they're being helped in terms of finding the hostages, by american intelligence agencies to. it gives them a bit more time. >> were you surprised that this came together. i think everybody was surprised at the result, but that hostage

negotiations could even be successful at this point. >> i wasn't surprised, because that's what they do. it was pretty clear there would be immediately contacts through qatar and egypt, backed by the united states to make contact with the hostage, with hamas, to try to come to some kind of deal. there was talk about that. there was early talk, a few days ago, about a partial release of women and children. for women and children held in israeli jails -- israel has 30 female security presence in its jails, and about 120 miners. so you can see that that would be an automatic swap. apparently, that's probably what they were talking about, when we say the deal fell through, and it may come back to life again, let's hope so. >> i do wonder, we were talking with graham, would author of an atlantic piece that has some reporting in it about the degree to which hamas was unprepared to take hostages back to gaza, that they apparently, again, this is reporting from the atlantic, msnbc has not verified it.

but apparently hamas was prepared for a prolonged hostage standoff inside israel. they did not think they would have hours to spirit away hundreds of hostages across the gaza border. if that is true, what are your concerns about the situation in which the hostages now find themselves, which is not one that hamas was necessarily prepared for? >> we are going to find out slowly but surely when naturally and judith are being interviewed. they will tell us what their situation was. but you saw the pictures you showed from shaw fee hospital, horrific stuff. the hospitals are probably underground, in tunnels, split up into numerous small groups, probably 40 or 50 different groups of hostages, i'm speculating now. >> yeah. >> but they're not only in one place, and they're scattered all over the place. horrific conditions. it's dark in the tunnels, no doubt. they do have electricity, they are very sophisticated tunnels. they're probably running out of

electricity, running out of fuel. conditions will be dire. absolutely. of course, we also know that the hamas told their fighters to kill the troublesome hostages, and to keep the rest as human shields. so our best, the remaining hostages will be used as human shields. >> well, all the more reason to continue any negotiations with great taste. let us not lose sight of the good news though, our hearts are with your -- the return of these hostages, and hope that that is a signal that more may be on the way. enjoy them. >> we have, so thank you. >> martin fletcher, thank you again for your time. we have one more story for you this evening. president biden, this week, balanced a major crisis abroad with the chaos of a leaderless house, right here at home. jen palmieri joins me to talk about this insane split screen america, that is next.

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>> we are living in the middle of quite a split screen moment on one side, and utterly defies functional republican house caucus unable to do its job, and on the other, a democratic president making a historic trip to a war zone, and delivering a primetime oval

office address on the israel-hamas war. that is in addition to the official white house request today for more than 105 billion dollars in aid for israel, ukraine, and other national security needs. here's where those two very different realities intersect. for that aid to be approved, there needs to be a functioning congress led by a speaker of the house. joining me now is my friend and colleague, jen palmieri, co-host of the circus and former white house communications director for president obama. she's also the co-host of the how to win in 2024 podcast. she wears a lot of hats. jen, it's so good to see you, my friend. actually, i'm so eager to hear your thoughts about this insane reality that we live in, politically. and the dysfunction in the house serving as a contrast to what's happening in the white house. i know the president is focused on the big picture, but there is a certain political utility in highlighting the dysfunction of the republican congress right now. >> yeah, -- >> full stop. >> yes, alex, correct. next question. yes, there's -- this is all -- 13 normal and then there's team chaos. you used to count on trump as

being tim chaos, and now you have -- i, mean they can't govern. they literally cannot govern. so while there's -- back when i worked for president clinton, certainly, he would get commander-in-chief bumps when there was a national security crisis, and the country would rally around the president. less so with president obama. i don't know that president biden, that you will see that now, just because people are so war weary, after 20 years in a racket of ghana stan. people are, when they see crisis on the world stage, it makes them anxious -- about does the u.s. have to get involved. but still, the leadership qualities that biden is able -- they are very good at this. they're very good at driving home the commander-in-chief moments. i think they understand that they don't necessarily last as long as they used to four presidents. but still they are able to drive these leadership qualities, and the calm, competent, orderly, team normal president, versus the chaos that you see with president

trump, and that you see on capitol hill. >> and it renounces the benefit of all democrats. democrats through all this insanity in the house have sat on the sidelines, including in the white house. from president biden down on. they are not saying anything about it. they are, like call, us will pick up the phone, we are ready to talk. is that right? can they maintain that strategy? >> i think that hakeem jeffries in the leadership team, -- i think they've been very effective at this. that they establish what their principles are, they're willing to work, they're willing to work in a bipartisan way, come talk to us. we need to elect a speaker. i think that, so people here that they are willing to be pi partisan, they're willing to work, but in the meantime, they are just driving home the maga -- hakeem jeffries always says. that the trump era, simple, and repetitive. they just talk about extremist maga. you may think kevin mccarthy's not as extreme as jim jordan, guess what, he voted to overturn the elected, just as jim jordan did. they are constantly dragging that message, while you see the chaos on the other side. >> i would be remiss to biden

highlight that it's been a very difficult week for the white house, -- it's an incredibly challenging. >> those 36 hours that they went to israel, that was high stakes, and i felt like they came through that with flying colors. very difficult. >> can we talk about the moment though, that it becomes clear, after the bombing of the hospital, that the regional partners from the arab world, the president biden is supposed to be talking to, all pull out as the u.s. president is on the way over. that was diplomatic. >> basically as he's boarding air force one, i think, is when it becomes more clear that this is all falling apart. >> how deeply do you think that affected the white house, and do you think that had -- was under girding any of, the i think, sort of change to language that the president adopted in the aftermath of that hospital bombing? even though we are given intelligence it was not on the part of hamas, it was on the

part -- it was not on the part of the idf, it was likely a separate jihadist group. but do you think that change to the white house calibration, in terms of how to talk about what was happening in gaza? and giving more attention to anti-muslim sentiment in this country. >> i think that, one thing that struck me since the beginning of this, since october 7th, it's how the president has approached this with no ambivalence. there are some americans that have a lot of concerns about that, but he dove in headfirst, fully owning this. him and tony blinken, they fully own the united states role in leading in a really precarious situation. but i think that because he has been so clear in his own mind, and his communication, with how he was approaching this, that they didn't have to think very hard about do we go, or do we not go. our number one mission is to show solidarity with israel. if we do that, if we show up, that's going to give him the capital with the israelis, with the leadership, and with the israeli people, to also say, as he did, which i thought was so effective, on his way back to

the united states, he went to the back of the plane to talk to the press. you know how the press love that. he never does that. -- >> we do. >> press love. that -- >> tomorrow. but >> he did that on the record? he actually went back and talk to them on the record, on camera. he said if there are -- working to look at palestinian civilians, we're going to hold israel accountable. if he had not gone and been so embraced, figuratively, literally, these really people, he would not have had the standing to do that. but i think that this clear -- >> wait, do you think that was baked into the calculation? >> definitely. >> we are going to stand shoulder to shoulder, we have the capital to say do not cause a further humanitarian catastrophe. >> he has a lot of -- netanyahu, not that popular with his people right now. joe biden is very popular with the israeli people. it does give him the standing to do this. but you just see, when you see

biden moving with such certitude, so surefooted -- also, just the stamina he shows. doing with his age, going over, they're coming back, doing an oval office address. also, that is strong leader, all caps, -- >> underscore, underlined, italicized. >> that is also been trump's biggest strength. these days are -- you, know this is going to be very difficult. we don't know how it's going to end up. but pocketing important leadership moments, as they can. >> well, the week that was, my friend. what an extraordinary moment for all of us. and the leadership in this country. jennifer palmieri, thank you for your time, your thoughts, your friendship. we will watch you on the circus on sunday night, that is this show, for tonight, now it's time for the last word with ali velshi, who is in for lawrence. good evening, ali. >> good evening alex. you have yourself a good weekend. we'll see you next week. >> a lot of news to get to tonight, including the news that two americans, judith raanan and her 18-year