better human beings we want a better world. in order to become better human beings, we have to confront the ugliness of the world, which means we have to confront the ugliness in us. the white liberal, always wants to feel good, virtue signal. baldwin says i'm skeptical of people who want to do something for me, as opposed to some people who want to do something with me. racial justice is not a philanthropic x enterprise. it's not a terrible gesture. if we want to be better people, we look summer. >> thank you, erin, for everything. thank you for helping us launched the velshi banned book club. thank you for making us smarter about james baldwin and your book. all right. eddie glaude junior is a professor in the chair of the african american studies have princeton university. and embassy contributor, and he's the author of the important book, began again, james baldwin's america and it's urgent lessons for our own. that does it for me. thank you for watching, catch me back here tomorrow morning from ten a.m. noon eastern, don't forget,

though she is also available in podcast form. right influencer free when it begins with a. stay right with your, the katie phang show starts right now. e phang show starts right now.

this with you guys, i showed that h to my husband, he though it was a deepfake. he's like, there is no way that man iksaid that.

danielle, your thoughts? >> i mean, i wish it were a deepfake, the reality is that donald trump, himself, is a deepfake. he's a liar, he's a grifter, and he believes very little about ieblack people and what they actually have to offer this country, right? that oh, so long as you get arrested and you have sneakers, those are good things that black people are aligned with. i don't know how much more racist you can be than what donald trump has provided and continues to provide. but people like tim scott stand behind him grinning, so he thinks that somehow, he is aligned with black people. there are people in this country who see donald trump for who he is. he's a racist, he's a big, he's telling you all of the quiet part out l loud, so you don't have to pretend or really figure or wonder, i wonder whatr he's thinking. i wonder what he will do when he becomes president. he's telling you he will be a dictator, he's telling you women atcan have bodily autonom he's telling you he doesn't want people to vote. pay attention, right?

like, all of the things that he saying, he needs and he will do, and the fact is that the republican party has thought very little about black people. don't care about black people. and don't want black people to be active participants in this country. period. >> so lucy, you've got nikki haley hanging on by a thread in her haown home state of south carolina. her messaging to voters is, i could beat joe biden in a general. i respectfully disagree with nikki haley, but realistically speaking, what's the best-case scenario? her name is clearly never going to make a short list for vp. >> yeah, i think that was important is to figure out what nikki haley is going to do when she inevitably does not get the republican abnomination. you are right, we know she's not going to beat trump and so, what she does next is really what's important because all of the other people in who are running for r the republican nomination inhave fallen in lin you see people like tim scott out this week stumping for trump and really behaving in quite an appalling way. and sort of being silent when

donald trump said something like, you know, rutim scott doesn't like u talking about himself, but he loves talking about trump. you can see all these people that even kind of, like, never trump adjacent to republicans sort of cope world, folks like that, we're copinning their hop on, welike tim scott, have all fallen in line with donald trump. so, what is nikki haley going to do? we know she's not going to win nomination. is she also going to fall in line? and people in a position like mine, people who work as -- trump ex republicans, never trumper publicans are really waiting to see because if nikki haley stays the course and she goes the way of someone like liz cheney and comments out and says on equivocally, this man is a menace to democracy, he's an existential threat , to the american way tof life, she can have a very, very powerful voice in the 2024 election and hopefully be beyond. if she doesn't, if she does a thing that swe've seen so many people inof them do, which is sort of be like, just kidding, actually i think he's a great guy, let's all go, you know, vote for adonald trump, that w are very, very disappointing. ultimately, i think that will

make the . progress that she's making right now, the powerful- ness of our campaign at this moment, oall for not. so, people like me are really hoping that nikki haley stays the course niand speaking out about the truth of the situation. >> yeah, so daniel, obviously this week republicans are struggling with how to react to that album supreme court rulingb that frozen embryos created through ivf are considered children now, under state law. early in the week, nikki haley seemed to y support that ruling but then emshe later walked bac on those comments. and listen, it's not just li exclusive to her. the new enyork times reporting g several senate republicans, the campaign arm is urging candidates actually support ivf. i have to ask, do republicans step in it again? that alabama isupreme court is all larepublicans, we're now in 2024. decision 2024. daniel, is ivf the next one issue vote coming up in november? >> it's going to be of you tive, katie, and it's also going to be birth control. they are not stopping, right? republicans are showing us exactly what a, you know, after roe v. wade america they want,

right? when you listen to that judges ruling in alabama, what he's talking and invoking biblical scripture and god, and all of these things, what happened to the e separation between church and state, right? what happened to our ability to function inside a democracy? they want a theocracy, they want white christian nationalists rule and so, i don't care if republicans today want to say oh, ivf went too far, because what they're doing is just playing hide and go seek with who they really are for the voters. we've seen that every time abortions, that reproductive health care is put on the ballot, they lose. and so, people have to understand that what they are doing in alabama, what they are doing in texas, and across these red exstates, they will nationalize if it is donald trump or if it's nikki haley, who becomes the next president. >> so, lucy, donald trump is racking up millions in damages, president biden racking up winds. this week, raising $42 million for his reelection campaign just in the month of january.

biden also announcing the cancellation of federal student loan debt for nearly 153,000 borrowers. what more should biden be doing right now as enhe watches trump and haley battle it out? >> well, i know that people may not like the sensor, but i'm not sure things like a -- loan debt is actually what joe biden should be doing right now. i think t that joe biden should be attacking the center and continuing to make the case that he's the person who's going keto bring reasonable na moderation to our political system, that he is the person who is emgoing to deliver on th border bill, that he is the person who is helping americans get back to a way of politicking where both sides could come across the aisle and actually get legislation done and get it to his desk that he is s willing to sign . so, i think that all of these things are good. it's great to see those fundraising returns, but i think that joe biden should continue to stay the course, to try to ntbring into the fall those people that we called double handers. those are people who are disaffected republicans or

independents who, you know, don't really like trump or biden, but ultimately, we hope that they will come vote for biden this election, as it in 2020. so, i think that's what he needs to doing and then stylistically, joe biden just needs to be joe biden. he had some great moments this week where he smade jokes abou his age, he showed people that he knows how to take selfies on cell phones. frankly, i think sometimes joe biden's team is playing three- dimensional chess but their fate is going to make a gaffe am or that his age will become an issue. when the right run right into un things or republicans are trying to igmake his vulnerabilities, that's really when joe biden is at his best and i hope that we can continue to hosee more and more of that version of joe biden, as he ramps n up the campaign trail. >> danielle moody, lucy caldwell, thank you so much for getting us started today. we appreciate it. and msnbc is going to have special coverage of the south carolina coprimary starting tod at 4:00 eastern, with my colleagues, jen psaki and jonathan capehart. and at 6:30, rachel maddow and the team will pick up analysis with steve kornacki at the big board. but still to come on the katie phang show, creeping christian

nationalism. how alabama supreme court is using the threat of, quote, god's inwrath to determine women's control over their own bodies. destroying the separation of church and state as the republican party twist itself into knots to build support and oppose ivf. but first, trump's cash crunch. the millions just keep stacking up against former president. raising stbig questions about h financial solvency and whether or not he's even going to be able to afford appealing the eye-popping judgments racking up against him. that is up next. there's nothing better than a subway series footlong. except when you add on an all new footlong sidekick. we're talking a $2 footlong churro. $3 footlong pretzel and a five dollar footlong cookie. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. order one with your favorite subway series sub today. want the power of 5 serum benefits in 1?

olay super serum activates on skin to hydrate, smooth, visibly firm, brighten, and improve texture. it's my best skin yet. olay a test or approve a medication. we didn't have to worry about any of those things thanks to the donations. and our family is forever grateful because it's completely changed our lives. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further.

proudly made in tennessee, a safe step walk-in tub is the best in it's class. the ultra-low easy step helps keep you safe from having to climb over those high walled tubs, allowing you to age gracefully in the home you love. and now, back by popular demand, for a limited time, when you purchase your brand-new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package! yes! a free shower package, and if you call today, you'll also receive $1600 off. now you can enjoy the best of both worlds. the therapeutic benefits of a warm, soothing bath, that can help increase mobility, relieve pain, boost energy, and even improve sleep. or, if you prefer, you can take a refreshing shower all in one product! call now!

the twice impeached, quadruple indicted one term ex president, donald trump, will soon be joining the billionaire boys club before the wrong reasons. trump's legal woes are costing him big bucks. yesterday, on your clerk officially recorded the 464 million dollar judgment in the civil fraud case brought by the new york attorney generals office and now the question

becomes, will trump appeal? frankly, can he even afford to do so? while trump rummaged through mar-a-lago for spare change, the interest on his judgment is growing by a staggering rate of $111,000 a day until it's paid off. new york attorney general letitia james had this to say about the judgment. >> if he does not have funds to pay off the judgment, then we will seek, you know, judgment enforcement mechanisms in court. and we will ask the judge to seize his assets. >> also yesterday, in a desperate bid to stall for time, trump's attorneys pleaded with the new york judge to say execution of the judgment in the e. jean carroll case, where trump is on the hook for more than $83 million in damages. the bond in that case? 91.6 $3 million. joining me now is joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. attorney in alabama, and the co-host of the hashtag

sisters in law podcast. so joyce, let's start with trump and money because that's what he thinks makes the world go around, but he's hemorrhaging it at this point. the new york clerk formally recording that judgment ordering trump to pay 454 million in that new york attorney generals case, plus prejudge meant interest, plus daily interest. i mean, if he's going to appeal, joyce, he's going to have to post a bond that's 120% of that total judgment. by my math, that's about 600 and something million dollars, if you can find that with the e. jean carroll verdict. i mean, talk about how that bond actually is achieved. there's been some back and forth about his ability to appeal, absent being able to post that bond. >> he can always ask the court for modification, i suppose. but the reality is that like every other litigant, if donald trump wants to take an appeal, he's got to post an appeal. that's required by the rules of procedure. and it is in there for a good reason. it's a way of guaranteeing that

the losing party, following trial, we'll be able to make good on the judgment that they aren't just using the appeal for purposes of delay and avoiding accountability. so that, i think, ring some with donald trump. katie, you raise an interesting question. what if he can't get a bond together? what if he's in a position where tish james begins to collect on the judgment? you know, you can envision a world where donald trump turns this into a political argument. they are out to get me and tries to avoid her collection efforts. really, it could be a public political mess heading into the election. >> i rarely, if ever, disagree with you. in fact, i defer to you all the time, but i will disagree. i think it's already begun to make it a political argument, from day one. that is a perfect segue into the next case i wanted to touch on with you, joyce. mar-a-lago, in my home state of florida, trump filing a slew of motions a couple of nights ago. one of which that was particularly noteworthy, a motion to dismiss based on presidential immunity. some of the arguments were

familiar. we've seen them in the chutkan case in d.c.,'s january six election interference case. but he also raise an interesting argument that he declassified, re-classified materials, with his mind, of course, the jedi mind trick that he does. and then he made them personal records, so he's able to take them wherever the heck he wanted to. talk about that. >> yeah, so this argument is flawed. it is deeply flawed. for one thing at best, it would apply to the charges in the indictment that he took the documents from the white house with him. they don't have any force against the obstruction charges. but they're more deeply flawed than that, to the extent that he suggests that he had the power to do this. you know, you can't convert classified material into some sort of personal property of a president or something covered by the presidential records act. and this motion has only one purpose. it will come as no surprise to you, katie. it is to delay the proceedings. because in the hands of judge aileen cannon, who's not shown a willingness to move quickly,

she can sit on this motion for some period of time. it will likely be one of the nails in the coffin that removes this case from a trial track, for may. >> so joyce, let's stay on it for a second, the. let's talk about to give that trump maybe gave aileen cannon in the instance of the filing of that motion. the reason why i say that is because trump's application for a stay of that presidential immunity, you know, case, the mandate, right? he's asked the supreme court of the united states to give him the time to be able to appeal. do you think now, based upon the fact he filed a presidential immunity motion in mar-a-lago, that that kind of forces the hand of scotus to maybe take up his appeal? >> so, that is such an interesting question. you know, when we talk about forcing their hand, we are normally thinking about a circuit slip where cannon would rule either for or against trump and the issue would go to appeal to the 11th circuit. and if they rule differently,

then the court of appeals in the district of columbia than maybe the supreme court would feel obligated to take the case. but i think your point is actually more sophisticated one that suggests that now the argument is percolating in multiple courts, rather than just letting the court of appeals judgment in d.c. stand. the supreme court may have to create a law for the entire country on this issue. you are absolutely right to think that that could slow the process down. i think the supreme court can simply make the argument that they will decide the case that is in front of them and that other courts can make whatever the will of it. trump's presidential immunity argument is just so weak. you talked about the consequences. that would unleash joe biden, for instance, to do whatever he wanted to do to stay in power, following the 2020 election. tough to see the 11th circuit doing anything other than adopting the reasoning of the district of columbia. >> well, joyce, we got the schedule in conference coming up on friday, march 1st, in

fort pierce. i agree with you, i think aileen cannon is going to keep this on the may trial daca. thank you so much for being here, joyce. it's always so good to see you. and coming up after the break, dodging disaster. gop speaker mike johnson says he's got a new plan to avert a partial government shutdown next week. democratic congressman robert garcia joins me next on the stakes on capitol hill and what it could mean for the future of critical foreign aid. don't go anywhere. u would y th. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. this new charmin ultra soft smooth tear is soooo soft and soo smooth. new charmin ultra soft smooth tear has wavy perforations that tear so much better for a smooth more enjoyable go. charmin, enjoy the go.

a force to be reckon with. no, not you saquon. hm? you! your business bank account with quickbooks money, now earns 5% apy. 5% apy? that's new! yup, that's how you business differently. at st. jude, the mission is just something that everyone can truly get behind. look at our little st. jude pin there on the fridge! we're just regular people donating. yeah. and i think it's cool to be able to make a difference in someone's lives in a way that is meaningful.

at bombas, we're obsessed with socks. tees. and underwear. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. - i got the cabin for three days. it's gonna be sweet! one purchased equals one donated. what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. - hmm! get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. - see you down the line. the economy is simply not working for millions of hard working families. they're working harder than ever and they still can't make enough to get by to afford food

and medicine to even keep a roof over their heads. we need to build more housing that's truly affordable. we need to address this terrible epidemic of homelessness. we need to invest in good paying jobs, union jobs and investments in our future. this, this is why i'm running for the us senate. i'm adam schiff and i approve this message. this election is about who shares your values. let me share mine. i'm the only candidate with a record of taking on maga republicans, and winning. when they overturned roe, i secured abortion rights in our state constitution. when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one.

don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. meet the traveling trio. each helping to protect their money with chase. wooo! tools that help protect. alerts that help check. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. so, we are just days away from yet another potential government shut down, but there may be hope on the horizon. according to two sources, house speaker mike johnson unveiled his plan to avert a shutdown on a call with house republicans last night, which would be great. except how his is out on recess until wednesday and even if the house can pull it together for

a vote by thursday, the senate still needs to vote, approve it, and get it on the presidents desk before the government shut down on march 1st. joining me now is congressman robert garcia of california, he's a member of the house oversight and department of homeland security committees. congressman, speaker johnson, god bless him, and the house gop reportedly working through this weekend with democrats to come to an agreement on the four appropriations bills needed to avert a shutdown. we've done this for different times, right? we keep on pushing, you know, kicking the can down the road. have you actually seen this plan yourself and do you think is going to work? >> so no, i mean, i haven't seen the planet. we understand that it's some sort of short term extension to the current budget, so we avert a shutdown. i mean look, unfortunately, this is just chaos, more chaos, and more chaos over and over again. we've had a chance to do the right thing on multiple occasions, and speaker johnson has no control of this republican caucus. he continues to listen to the extreme right wing fringe that

control the current republican party in congress. so, i have no confidence or actually going to get anything done, extreme conservatives keep trying to insert all sorts of really crazy ideas in our budget process around access to women's reproductive health, around discriminating lgbtq+ people. and so, time and time again, speaker johnson is showing us that he cannot control and deliver for the american people. we are waiting to see what this plan actually looks like. i'm hopeful that we can, obviously, avert a shutdown. there are millions of jobs at stake and millions of people depend on services. >> yeah, so we also just got word a short time ago the body of alexei navalny has been handed over to his mother. it comes after biden levied more than 500 sanctions against russia and on the two year anniversary of russia's invasion of ukraine, congressman, do you think these sanctions will have any effect, and more importantly, do you think the house can actually finally agree on a plan to send necessary aid to ukraine?

>> i mean obviously, i support the presidents approach here. but let's be real clear, we are in a very dangerous situation as it relates to ukraine and essentially a much of the extremist congress spending the need to putin. we have a serious situation in ukraine and in eastern europe. we have a democracy that needs our support and help, we cannot leave them out to dry. putin continues to engage, continues to pummel ukraine, and we cannot get a national security package onto the house floor. because mike johnson, once again, continues to listen to listen to whatever donald trump ordered him to do. you know that ukraine needs or support now. we need to vote on that funding immediately and we've heard -- we are weeks away from causing serious damage through this effort, so we are urging mike johnson to bring forward the ukraine funding package immediately onto the house floor. the president has done so as well and why we're listening to

donald trump and why we're essentially supporting putin's war is completely lunacy to me. so, it's time to vote. it's important for ukraine today. >> and while the republicans chaos caucus continues to control house republicans, republicans continue to waste americans time and money. i have to put this tweet up that you did, i love it. this is the next star witness for the house republicans on their fruitless quest to impeach president joe biden. we have to talk about alexander smirnoff, the gop star witness now accused and being indicted of lying under oath to the federal government. the fbi also saying that smirnoff has proven ties to russian intelligence officials. i mean, congressman, it's their playbook, right? you just throw something on the wall, you slander people along the way, you have zero evidence, you hope something sticks, and yet look at what's happened, right? chinese whistleblower, you know, you've got smirnoff, you've got devin archer says

biden didn't do anything to help under-. i mean, it's just never ending. like hand they not get out of their own way and actually help americans? >> i mean, this whole thing is such a scam. it is unbelievable. the level, at this point, it's a joke. this whole impeachment process has become, and you're absolutely right, katie. we've got chinese spies, we've got russian intelligence, we've got discredited witnesses, i mean, you literally couldn't make this up for a movie. and of course, we know, and this is really serious, that a russian intelligence is likely directly been involved with evidence collection. the republicans are now using, for this impeachment scam. so, we have serious questions. what does james comer know? when did he know it? why is he possibly working with russian intelligence? at least for their information to damage the president? i think the reason why this is all falling apart is as you said, there is zero evidence making president biden -- any sort of wrongdoing.

there is nothing there. why do they continue to scramble? why do they continue to push all these tinfoil conspiracy theories? it is because donald trump is ordering them to do so. all this is about is trying to damage president biden and his reelection opportunity. we also know that once again, this is russian election interference. we've got to be honest about what's happening here, push back forcefully. >> we appreciate you saying that, congressman, because the gop has also often tried to pooh-pooh the fact that each -- russian interference in our election system in the united states. yet, this is hard and fast proof,. if the gop continues to tie itself, being married to this, then it's just like being married to vladimir putin. congressman robert garcia, i'm always grateful for your voice. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> coming up next after the break, damage control inside the gop's desperate about face on the alabama supreme court's decision to recognize personhood for frozen embryos.

as other states push to enshrine abortion rights in the constitution's. keep it right here. right here. d , ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver.

(♪♪) we come from a long line of cowboys. (♪♪) when i see all of us out here on this ranch, i see how far our legacy can go. (♪♪)

i strongly support the availability of ivf for couples who are trying to have a precious little, beautiful baby. i support it. >> that is donald trump, who loves to trumpet how he, alone,

is responsible for the demise of roe v. wade, backpedalling, though, last night. in the wake of last week's alabama state supreme court decision defining children now to frozen embryos. the republican party is also scrambling to deal with the fallout of cohesive response. we have women's health care is in dangerous disarray yet again. multiple alabama hospitals have paused ivf procedures indefinitely and nationwide, embryo shipping services have stopped transporting to and from alabama. this is very personal for me. we were blessed with the gift of my daughter because of ivf. i am pro-choice. what i do with my remaining frozen embryos is exactly that, my choice. as a lawyer, i also believe in the rule of law. but if i didn't go through ivf, i wouldn't have my little girl. this alabama decision is a dream stealer, taking way the chance for so many to have a family.

it is unjust, cruel, and a dangerous harbinger of christian naturalism destroying our individual rights. joining me now is a senior writer for slate, mark joseph stern. mark, you've been tip of spear on this alabama decision straight when it came out. i need you to be on the show to talk about, it so people really understood the import of what has happened. people who do ivf want to have children. they want to have grow their families. now they may not be able to do so. is this the end of ivf, at least in the state of alabama? >> it certainly is, for now, unless the legislature acts and even then, the alabama supreme court has strongly suggested that it will not allow ivf to go on as currently practiced in accordance with the standards, even if the legislature steps in and attempts to legalize it. these hospitals and clinics, and shipping services that have ended all kind of business or transfers, or practice within state of alabama, they are,

sadly, acting quite rationally. under alabama law, embryos are now the equivalent of children. that means that the destruction of embryos could potentially be homicide which means that the way that ivf works, the fundamental system of in vitro fertilization could be a criminal act and is at a minimum potentially the equivalent of killing a child that can subject cleans clinics to millions in damages. >> you know, mark, you tweeted the other day that this ruling is a direct result of dobbs. some of us have warned that because of dobbs, abortion, medication, mifepristone, was going to be on the chopping block. look at what is happening right now. now we see ivf, contraception is probably also going to be around the corner. i mean, talk about the chilling effect that has happened because of this dobbs decision. >> yeah, so first of all, let's be clear. the alabama supreme court cited dobbs, repeatedly, for the proposition that embryos are

human beings with equal protection under the law. i have seen republicans tried to distance dobbs from this ruling, absolutely not. they are fundamentally intertwined. that is because what dobbs did was give states absolute leeway to define when life began and when that so-called life could receive protection, under the law. now, at the time, i think most people thought about this as abortion, right? a fetus, when that fetus could be terminated, when a woman is experiencing a medical emergency during pregnancy could get an abortion. you know, those are the immediate issues. but dobbs also applies to ivf because it has allowed alabama to fully implement a state constitutional amendment that says that, essentially, embryos arguments, embryos our life, and they merit this kind of sweeping protection that just to note, is not granted to actual human beings and actual children in alabama where some of the most impoverished and undereducated children in the

entire country. so, this is not only a direct result of dobbs in terms of precedent, but in terms of the supreme courts reasoning, freeing states to take these extreme steps. it just could not have happened if trump had not appointed the three justices who led the way in overturning roe v. wade. >> yeah and mark, the chief justice, greg parker, of the alabama supreme court, wrote a concurrence that nobody else signed on to and maybe they thought was just as naughty as we all thought it is. but i'm not being casual about this, parker went on a qanon interview or show. he talks about how christian nationalism is the way to go, he infused a biblical passages into his concurrence and talked about how is the invocation of the wrath of god to be able to, you know, dispose of embryos in any way. how is this not disqualifying, mark, for a judge to be able to be promoting this type of philosophy and then infusing it directly into an opinion that

is filed into court? >> yeah, i think the question, really, is how could this opinion possibly withstand constitutional muster, under the establishment clause of the first amendment, which guarantees a separation of church and state? and here again, we have to look to scotus. we have to look to the united states supreme court, which in a series of decisions, especially in 2022, kennedy versus remington, absolutely if it's rated what remained of the separation of church and state. took away these key protections against the infusion of religion and government, and essentially freed judges, like chief justice parker, to implement their own extremist evangelical ideology as part of state law. the supreme court took away all of the remaining safeguards that shielded us, as a pluralistic society, as citizens of many different religions, from the state imposing one specific religious belief on all of us. so again, you know, chief justice parker appears to be a real coop, affiliations with

qanon, his decision is outrageous. but it just does not happen and it doesn't have legal force if the united states supreme court had not given him free reign to do this. >> our thanks to the supreme court justices, once again, mark. mark joseph stern, i want you to come back. let's keep on tracking what happens with this decision and hopefully it doesn't have even more of a ripple effect. thanks for being here, i appreciate you. >> thanks, katie. >> coming up next, misspent millions. after a six -- week long civil corruption trial in new york, a jury found the nra and its former leader on the hook for millions of dollars. what the verdict could mean for gun safety across the united states. united states. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus 10% off all bases. sara federico: at st. jude, we don't care who cures cancer.

we just need to advance the cure. it's a bold initiative to try and bump cure rates all around the world, but we should. it is our commitment. we need to do this. to a child, this is what conflict looks like.

children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes. a steady stream of refugees has been coming across all day. it's basically cold. lacking clean water and sanitation. exposed to injury, hunger. exhausted and shell shocked from what they've been through. every dollar you give can help bring a meal, a blanket, or simply hope to a child living in conflict. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today with your gift of $10 a month, that's just $0.33 a day. we cannot forget the children in places like syria, born in refugee camps, playing in refugee camps, thinking of the camps as home. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today with your gift of $10 a month. your gift can help children like ara in afghanistan,

where nearly 20 years of conflict have forced the people into extreme poverty. weakened and unable to hold herself up, ara was brought to a save the children's center, where she was diagnosed and treated for severe malnutrition. every dollar helps. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today with your gift of $10 a month. just $0.33 a day. and thanks to special government grants that are available now, every dollar you give can multiply up to ten times the impact. and when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special save the children tote bag to show you won't forget the children who are living their lives in conflict. every war is a war against children. please give now.

it took five days of deliberations for a new york jury to find the national rifle association and its former leader, dwayne litt here, liable in a civil corruption case that was brought by new

york attorney general letitia james. lapierre, along with other nra executives, were found to have failed to properly run that gun lobbying group where the jury finally got left here spent millions of and are $8 on lavish spending, including vacations, luxury flights, and yacht rights for himself and his relatives. it is a huge financial blow for an organization which was once a major voice in gun control and politics, but it's definitely seen its membership numbers fall by millions in recent years. joining me now for more on this conversation is fred guttenberg, the father of jamie guttenberg, who was killed in the parkland shooting. he is also the coauthor of american carnage, shattering the myths that fuel gun violence. fred, i say it is an honor for you to join me and it always is for you to spend the time. i was saying, during the break, you are tireless when it comes to the advocacy that you provide. i know you've been fighting the nra for years. what does that verdict say to you? first, i hope wayne rots in

hell. my daughter was -- doing business for a lobby that he built, for an industry that profited off of gun violence and death, and the verdict says, to me, that accountability is coming. here is the thing. that industry still exists, the nra still exists, other entities that are even more extreme than the nra still exist. america, if you're as fed up as i am, you have a response that now comes in just nine months. it's called election day. vote, vote, vote, vote, as if this is an issue that matters to you more than any other, because it should. >> and because democracy matters to you and because this issue is so important, you and joe walsh have actually gone on a tour. the two dads defending democracy tour. talk about that because i am interested. you and joe have crossed divides on that.

some of us maybe would never have anticipated. i, myself, you know? i've had some really meaningful conversations with joe. why was it important for the two of you to take it on the road to share messaging? >> because a few years ago, going back to the nra, the day after my daughter was killed, i walked into my house after the parkland vigil and i said, i'm going to break the effing gun lobby. demonizing people like joe was a part of that. you know? because i just thought they were wrong. and then about two years after that, joe reached out to me and said, we should talk. and we did. that conversation led us both to realize, we like each other. that there is a lot we actually agree on, that there is a lot together that we can say to the country that will be helpful. and so, we decided to do that. you know, listen, joe and i, we don't agree on all of the

issues, but we agree on enough that we could solve things and we agree on democracy, and we agree on the importance of this upcoming election, and we agree on the necessity to reelect president biden and give him a congress he can work with. because what we are seeing from the other party right now is disgusting, despicable, watching the former guy mock an audience yesterday, just because he knows it will turn out his maga vote, it is simply reprehensible and joe and i want to talk to the country and convince them that their vote matters and they need to vote. >> so, you are one of the strongest advocates that i've met. you always bring 150%, if not more, of yourself because of jamie, because of jesse, your son. and because of jennifer, your wife. and i bring them up because when you showed up today, and i'm not sure if we can see it,

you are wearing these orange sketchers, which were made just for you and jennifer. it reminds me of positive love. it's an organization that i want people to understand what it is about and why you and jennifer decided to start it. >> well, when my daughter was killed, we had a five year old -- and house, we also had a four month old puppy and i tell people all the time, those dogs saved my family. my wife, about two years ago, while we were driving, said, i want to start something where we can help families affected by gun violence. and we immediately knew it had to involve dogs. my daughter, jimmy, was obsessed with her dogs. my dogs are my kids. and so, we started pause of love. what it is is we give 8 to 10- week-old golden doodle puppies families affected by gun violence and the entire first year. everything they could possibly need, medical, medical

insurance, food, training, the crate, the toys, everything, because we want families to know that even when affected by gun violence, there is a way that you can connect with others through love and support. we are hoping that we can show that love and support and help them through this most horrible time in their lives. our dogs helped us and we are now looking to help other families and for people who want to know more, just go to the orange -- for jamie website. the whole program is there, you can apply their. we are there for you. >> you know fred, very quickly, before i have to let you go, you are a reminder that this trauma happens, these tragedies happen, and the headlines go by, right? the families are left to pick up the pieces. >> and listen, it's so true, the only horrific part of that is gun violence keeps on happening and we keep getting

reminded. and i will only say this to anyone who was affected by gun violence, and you know this, we are a community of survivors that stand with one another and always will, and we also have this opportunity right now in front of us to continue the great work that has happened the past few years, to reduce gun violence, we all need to show up and vote. this election matters unlike any other. don't sit it out, don't sit home, show up and vote. >> fred guttenberg, my friend, i'm always so grateful for you. >> thank you, i appreciate you. >> thank god. i want to thank all of you for joining us today. you can catch me back here next saturday at noon eastern. remember to follow us on social media using the handle at katie phang show. you can also catch clips of the show on youtube and don't forget, you can listen to every episode of the show as a podcast for free. scan that q r code on your screen to follow now and don't forget to tune into tonight's special coverage on msnbc of the south carolina primary starting at four eastern with

my colleagues, jen psaki and jonathan capehart. then at 6:30, rachel maddow and the team will pick up analysis with steve carnegie at the big board. don't go anywhere, msnbc reports with alex witt is coming up next. there's nothing better than a subway series footlong. except when you add on an all new footlong sidekick. we're talking a $2 footlong churro. $3 footlong pretzel and a five dollar footlong cookie. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. order one with your favorite subway series sub today. [cough] honey...

honey. nyquil severe honey. powerful cold and flu relief with a dreamy honey taste nyquil honey, kayak. no way. why would i use kayak to compare hundreds of travel sites at once? kayak. i like to do things myself. i do my own searching. it isn't efficient. use kayak. i can't trust anything else to do the job right. aaaaaaaahhhh! kayak. search one and done.

is it possible to count on my internet like my customers count on me? it is with comcast business. keeping you up and running with our 99.9% network reliability. and security that helps outsmart threats to your data. moaire dida twoo? - your data, too. there's even round-the-clock customer support. so you can be there for your customers. with comcast business, reliability isn't just possible. it's happening. get started for $49 a month. plus, ask how to get up to a $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet package. don't wait, call and switch today!