♪♪ hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york as we begin msnbc's special coverage of super tuesday. millions are headed to the polls in 16 states in what is the biggest day of voting for election day, of course. a moment after which americans will have to face the fact that this is, as a dear friend of this show, do you want to have

any more elections-elections. voters are not just choosing between the candidates but making critical decisions about the basic fundamentals of the democracy. polling in the last knew 2024 primaries show us everything show us that donald trump will defeat nikki haley by significant margins. and super tuesday will perhaps mark this days away from trump clinching the republican nomination officially. that means today will, if nothing else, crystallize the choices that americans face in november. this between two presidents, one current, one former. one president who has an agenda that commands broad public support. his commitment to our democracy and our institutions has never been in doubt. but he's dogged by some lackluster polling that doesn't match up with support for his policies. and the other, well, you know the other. four times indicted, twice impeached ex-president who

currently faces 91 felony counts in four jurisdictions. he's been found liable for sexual abuse. set to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties for years of financial fraud. who also makes no bones about his specific and concrete plans to rule as an autocrat, a, quote, dictator, on day one if he's re-elected. his tenure in office was marked by an endless series of low points, not just for the presidency, but for the country. each one more disgraceful than the one that preceded it. he seems to be in the rear view mirror, "times" asking do americans have a collective amnesia about donald trump? quote, more than three years of distance from the daily onslaught has faded, changed and in some cases warped in memory, and have a hazy recall of one of

the most tie tie multi wus times in politics. in the wording of the most haley voter out there, quote it's the snake oil salesperson versus the incumbent politics. that quote was uttered by dallas mavericks owner mark cuban. he said he's voting gore nikki haley as a protest against donald trump regarding the biden/trump rematch, his choices were clear, if they were having their last wake and he versus trump, i would still vote for joe biden. with the stage between donald trump and joe biden in an election where nothing else than our democracy is at stake. where we begin with some of our favorite reporters and friends. with me at the table for the hour, former senator and co-host of msnbc, title win 2024 podcast

claire mccaskill is back. and former republican msnbc analyst david jolly is here. david jolly, there is something -- i don't want to use the word ceremonial, because there's nothing ceremonial about donald trump but there is something significant about the milestone. >> sure. >> in a post-super tuesday point in the cycle? >> right, he will not obtain enough delegates to make him the nominee statistically, but the race is over tonight, we know that. unless something is unforeseen and interferes with that, it's a rematch with joe biden. you eyes turn to who are the nikki haley/joe biden voters. >> yeah. >> because very respectfully to the former south carolina governor she has never been competitive in this primary. this was the primary that never was. >> right. >> but what she did do is

mobilize a constituency many of whom have said i simply can't vote for donald trump. a lot of them, perhaps nikki haley will vote for donald trump. they'll fall in line. what about those who won't? the joe biden coalition looks and feels different than the coalition of the past. it's the coalition we saw emerge in '18 and '22. it's the coalition that led biden to the nomination. claire knows this better than anybody. it was also a family conversation nomination where the party had to decide which direction are we going? biden was the electable coalition. the haley/biden voter becomes everything when polls close tonight. >> haley/biden voter -- i can already hear voters saying you're going to spend too much attention on it. the point is, elections are decided by a tiny sliver. >> sure. >> and in this instance, i think a lot of elite voters are women,

more female over the trump voters. they've also accepted what haley has been articulating which is trump should be disqualified, calling her pelosi, mixing up biden and obama. she's gone after things, she's gone after trump's own funny bone. trump walks around taking the mocha test, tomato, tamale. >> the haley/biden voters are important, no question. we know about 20% of the 54s who voted for haley said they will not vote for donald trump under any circumstances. but also really important, nikole, the people who don't vote in the primaries but will vote in november. there is a huge number that will not vote in the primaries or infrequently vote in the primaries and then show up in november.

it's those voters, listen, don't yell at me, everybody, i'm not saying that democracy is not on the ballot. but what i am saying i want to be careful in talking in such generalities. because people who will show up to vote in november that maybe won't vote in these primaries, they're not talking about democracy, they're talking how much they pay for ground beef. by the way, they should be talking that gasoline is down to $3 a gallon from $4 a gallon. and the wages that they're seeing or the bridge getting built in their neighborhood they that he wanted built for years. it's not just a contrast to somebody who is crazy, demented and horrible in character versus a really good man but he also has to make sure he brings it down to a level that people can get their arms around easily instead of just saying democracy is on the ballot. >> and let me separate the biden

campaign from what we do here, i think they do that, josh shapiro does that and governor webber does that. there's a class of politicians who have become much better at marrying the democracy questions that we grapple with day in and day out with their agenda. i think president biden does it very well, governor josh shapiro does it the best. governor whitman does it the best. i think that happens maybe outside of these conversations. do you think you want to see more of it? >> i do. and i think what they've got, in these swing states right now, it's not great in swing states that he has to win. and the third party stuff complicates it even more but in those states you got to figure out a way to make it as local as he possibly can. what he has gotten done. whether it's whether people in that state talk about their insulin, only $35 a month, what that means for their budget and what that can do for their families. they've got to do that on a

granular basis in each of ease swing states to get those voters to show up in november that aren't voting today. >> and there's probably something in the democracy that isn't granular. and that is taking away a right. >> yeah. >> you step away for three months, and admittedly, you don't hear a lot of people talking about jack smith's filing or the gag order. you do hear people, men, women, younger americans, older americans of all socioeconomic persuasions, all sorts of kinds of nonpolitical gatherings talking about the fact that they don't want to live in a country where their sons or daughters can't have -- you know, can't make a mistake and not have health care choices that are between a doctor and a patient. >> yeah. i'm so glad claire went there first. >> it's always better when claire goes there first. >> look, there's a healthy suspicion that the biden camp has been relying on donald trump as the candidate to do a little

of the work to help close the gap. joe biden has to do a couple things at the same time. he has to defend democracy, whether or not that informs voters or not. i'm in claire's camp, i don't think it informs a lot today. but i think what tie those together is only in a healthy democracy are your fundamental rights protected. only in a healthy democracy does your economy work for all people, reproductive freedoms protected. only in a healthy economy do we have equities that republicans want to punish. i think part of that, and this is tactical as much as anything, joe biden and the biden administration has to take control of the narratives that they're losing on. don't avoid issues like the economy and the border. own them and reframe them. nikole, it is morning in america again. more people will go to work than

ever before. home ownership is at historic highs. the stock market is breaking records. retirement accounts the an all-time high. inflation is going down, real wages are going up. joe biden has led a bipartisan border security package and families have better access to health care and education than ever before. >> i want to bring out like an old-fashioned tape recorder. you have told them this? that's it, right? i also, having covered republican campaigns, i think there is a place for a dark reality of a second-term trump presidency. >> that's right. the danger is, danger is republicans instead of moving for the chaos at the border, try to fix it and move america forward. you saw joe biden do that at the border last week. he said to donald trump come help me. i suspect at the state of the union address, we will see that again. this is a guy that played rope-a-dope with rick scott on medicare last year. and if republicans think they can walk into the election making it about the economy and

the border, it's up to joe biden to say, okay, let's talk about the issues because i've got something to say. >> knew colleague is here, ali vitali, in south carolina where nikki haley headquarters just down the street from where she is staying. giving us the view, not just the candidates but her voters and supporters today. >> reporter: first of all, nikole, so happy to have you back and so happy you got time with baby. >> it's super tuesday. >> caller: yeah. >> look, all quiet on the danielle island front here with the nikki haley campaign. at least for now. we've been getting color updates, i heard from one official just a few hours ago said, look, we're putting on the vibe of being happy warriors right now. the ones around the headquarters are listening to music. some of the tunes they're listening to on the nose including "started from the bottom" by drake, as well as

feminist-leaning tunes from aretha franklin and others. that is very much the tone they've taken over the course of the last few weeks, too. they're aware of the republican apparatus as it existed thind donald trump is trying to foot-tap them out of this race. and haley has put the brakes on that and said, hey, no, i'm going to allow voters at least in super tuesday states to have an alternative. they are looking at results out of south carolina and michigan as yet donald trump victory but trying to say for a quasiincumbent like trump, he should not be losing 40% on the ground, roughly in south carolina. 30% on the ground, roughly, in michigan. those are the reasons that haley says she's staying in. for how long the reasons extend are the ultimate question here. in my conversations, nikole, with the candidate and campaign. super tuesday is a clear inflexion point for them. they have money on the airwaves here. they have staff on the ground. they very pointedly said that

super tuesday say mile marker. but when i asked the campaign, okay, you've got leadership and forces on the ground in georgia sand louisiana, that would take you through the end of the month. they just say it's going to be step-by-step in the candidate's words after super tuesday. the fact that we're not seeing haley at all at least to this point is notable. the fact that sarah dean sand sigh just called some of those endorsers in georgia. and saying should we read into the fact that you got these guys, we called some of them, and they said there are no events planned at this point. you've worked on campaigns, you know how quickly events can be stood up. it could very well be they get a phone call tomorrow and they're still off to the races. but at the same time, this could be the beginning of the end for haley depending on what the super tuesday results are. >> ali, she has made a fitness argument against donald trump. she's not running a campaign -- christy ran a corruption and

close to running sort of a democracy rule of law campaign. haley has been personal. she's called him unfit, not just to be president but, essentially, you know, to run a council meeting. she just pointed out that he mixes up who she is and speaker pelosi. she'd be a laughingstock on the world stage, a place where she cares what people think of her. what's she going to do? >> reporter: look, she would say it's not personal. and when we asked her before, do you wish you had gone after the former president and former boss sooner in the race, she said, no, then i would have been with chris christie. for haley, i think it doesn't track with the reality of the republican world that we all live in, she said this is not an anti-trump campaign for her but the reality is if you're the

only candidate whose name is not donald trump you are innately the nontrump or anti-trump candidate. that doesn't mean that haley didn't vote for him twice as she often says. i do think it's difficult to come back in the fold and say in the same breath when she drops out of this race, if that happens that she's endoring the former president. she said he's 200 cute by half with putin commenting that he never said that putin was responsible for alexei navalny's death. she's been critical on the world stage as you point out. of course, on his mental fitness, the way he's clearly mixing things up you-o on the campaign trail. it's why it's striking over the weekend, haley said the rnc pledge is just a piece of paper i'm going to make the decision that i want to make when the time comes whether or not to endorse donald trump. i talked to haley supporters, by a few dozen in the five or eight states we've been in, they would be disappointed if they came out

by and large and endorsed the former president. this is a group of voters by 2 to 3 margin, unscientific numbers, don't want to see trump as the nominee again. would struggle if he was in terms of what their decision in november would be. i think haley is aware of what the vibe is on the ground in that sense. that, i think, will inform her decision whether or not to endorse, too. >> let me share with all of you what mark cuban had to say. he falls into this category we talk about, i confess, we may be spending too much time talking about them a bit but they matter with the margins as precariously close as they are. mark cuban says this, quote, it's the snake oil salesperson versus the incumbent politician. one will tell you the snake oil will cure everything that ales you, the other will show you details of charts and graphs. he's precise and wants to sell the steak, not the sizzle. trump voters are happily with the snake oil whether it works

or not. the thing about 2024, the fraud is the point. trump is running -- that's why i think we're sort of post -- you know, legal concept, as with trump. voters don't think any of it is real anymore. with the american president, they're crawling through the desert, eating the sand, they know it's sand and they still want to eat it. how do you grab the mark cubans and turn them into a bloc that matters in november? >> i mean, it's really hard. i think there are certain voters in this country that have been victimized by a very simple concept. if you lie boldly, frequently and repetitively, it will work. and that's what trump has done. he has consistently sold lies. >> snake oil. >> snake oil. and these people are -- they're there. i mean, i talked to them in my state all the time, nikole. >> sure.

>> they are just totally convinced that every prosecution against him is beefsteak. they're convinced there's nothing wrong with january 6. that was staged by the federal government. they are convinced donald trump diagnose everything right. >> how about calling active military losers and suckers? >> that's what's really bad. what i'm saying we need to quit fixating on those who are gone. >> i agree. but this is an interesting group, arguably, nikki haley came around about the reality of trump after benefitting in that association take a very long time in the primary to tell the truth about him. >> why? why did she take so long? >> well, i think she made a political calculation, and she's in there longer than chris christie, that's probably going to -- they're all going to lose to trump. if she can look in the mirror

that she enabled him and propped him and took a long time to tell the truth about him, but that's what she did. you know, i think she becomes an interesting figure because there are voters that care about her, not so much because of the campaign she ran. >> i agree. i agree. and i think she has an opportunity to make history here in a positive way as she unfolds like everybody else has folded. history is not going to be kind to this man. just the border, as david was talking about, if biden takes trump on the border i was in the senate when trump was president and he had said i'm going to build a wall, mexico's going to pay for it, i'm going to stop people at the border. he did none of that. >> he did none of that. sigh remember to the day i die, steve schmidt sitting in a remote shot yelling where are

the. pesos. >> he had no idea. >> yeah. about what he was going to do. what biden has to do, whether it's crime or the border or the economy, he's really got to take it to them and point out how many promises, really, those voters on the edge, on the bubble, they need to hear how many things trump prompted and didn't deliver. how many lies he told that he was going to do because he's going to do the same thing again. >> not only on the bubble, the ones that think it was all great but what they thought were good ideas, it was all a lie. >> i like his policy, i like his policy. >> ali vitali, it's very nice to see you, my friend. i missed seeing your face and getting to talk to you. thank you very much. the table sticks around. when we come back, we'll go to a polling site in north carolina

where shaq brewster is tracking a significant amount. and then mark cuban turning into biden voters next november. and the alleged conspirator, kenneth chesebro has a new problem, what his allies couldn't keep hidden from the public forever. what we're learning about the fake elects scheme and the dubious legal strategies that were always cover for their political spots. we'll have that story and brand-new reporting from today's "the new york times." later in the broadcast, steve kornacki will be at the board. he'll unpack the first round of exit polling, telling us how the voters feel about the country and their choices this november. all of those stories and more when msnbc's super tuesday coverage. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere.

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switch from trump to nikki haley? >> the man is a lunatic. >> the stronger voice. which might be a little quieter is nikki haley. it's the voice of reason, not the voice of treason. >> i'm not sure. i'm not sure. i don't know what to do. i'm hoping that somehow it works out that nikki gets the nomination. >> because i think she's the best chance we have right now. and i want to make sure that i put out a vote against donald trump. . >> a cycle so far lacking suspense they make up one of the

great mysteries of the election cycle. when all is said and done are the people who think trump is a lunatic who committed treason. what do they end up doing, when you look back at them and things they said, you call them swing voters this cycle. a few of nikki haley supporters interviewed by nbc news suggested she's anything but a long shot to win the republican nomination. the real question becomes, what do they do? where do they end up? joining us, shaq brewster in south carolina. shaq, tell us what you're hearing. >> reporter: well, nkole one interesting factor, the people building nikki haley support is a range of coalition, a range of voters. some of them voted for joe biden in 2020 either who were turned off by donald trump but consider themselves republicans and see nikki haley as a conduit for

that energy. others are traditional republicans who just like nikki haley and will go back to donald trump if they need to in the general election. so, when you ask a question of what happens to them after, it really depends on how they're entering that base of support for nikki haley. and i want you to listen to a couple of conversations i've been having with voters when i asked them that very point, not just who you're supporting and why, but what happens if you get that likely general election matchup. why nikki haley? >> two reasons, one, i think she would do a very good job. and, two, i think donald trump is a threat to the world being of our country. >> reporter: it's a donald trump/joe biden rematch, what do you do in that case? >> donald trump. >> reporter: what made you switch from trump to nikki haley? >> the man is a lunatic. and i think he's terrible for

the country. >> reporter: what are you thinking about when you say that? >> just that he lies, he cheats. he bankrupted millions of businesses and people. i don't see anything good about him. >> reporter: let me ask, if donald trump is the nominee in november, do you support joe biden over donald trump? >> no. >> reporter: what do you do? >> i don't know. it will be say hard decision. >> reporter: and that last conversation, her name was monica. we went on a little bit longer. and i asked her, well, what do you do? how do you ultimately make a decision? she said she doesn't know. she'll wait it out. but she did say that if donald trump chooses a vice presidential candidate that she likes, then that could swing her over and be a vote for donald trump, despite her thinking that donald trump is a lunatic. a lunatic in her words. that just gives you a sense how it's a difficult decision. some of these voters generally say they don't know what they'll do if it gets to november with

donald trump/joe biden rematch. you can bet, based on the conversation i've been having at least, a lot of them will likely go back to the fold. most likely go back to the republican candidate and vote for donald trump. >> so interesting. i would say having worked on a lot of campaigns if trump's vp pick is decisive, it may be the first time in american political history, shaq is a tremendous journalist, i'm sure that's what people are saying. but there's never been an instance, even the lore around palin, it was still lost. i feel like we're still talking about small numbers and anecdotal pieces. the fundamental thing that i think is so vital is that trump's own voters know that he's a threat to the well-being to the country. that he's a terrible person. he bankrupted -- these are their quotes. that he's a lunatic, and that he committed, in their words,

treason. that has seeped into a part of sort of the political spectrum that there's no impression for me. >> that's right. it's an important baseline to just focus on the haley/biden voter is not the be all, it's joe biden marching with voters from the right to middle, main line democrats, moderates, so forth. this in novel is where the haley/biden voter matters. is it you have built your campaign questioning donald trump's fitness for office, around his patriotism, loyalty to the country, you have called him unhinged unstable. you have said his skills are those of a loser. you have said he sided with putin and said he's not

competent enough to be president. donald trump beating nikki haley does not make trump more fit for office. the question earlier what changes the dynamic it actually relies on leadership voices like nikki haley and list cheney and chris christie to say we are voting for joe biden in november. if they fail to do that, they fail the greatest test probably. many of the voters are able to answer that question they'll vote for joe biden. >> voters have to answer that question, they're going in the booth and two thing on the menu. liz cheney has said she won't vote for donald trump. saying she wouldn't vote for donald trump, or the philosophy. i mean, the not voting for donald trump has to become a clarion call about the fitness question. >> about voting for joe biden, though. >> right. >> very gratuitously, nikki haley has called joe biden more

dangerous than donald trump. >> which we know she doesn't believe. >> she brought up issues of corporate taxing and border policy, not threats to democracy, not existential threats to individual rights and future of the country. so, do we see people who play in the space of oh, i'll never vote for donald trump, are they willing to say it's a binary race to protect the country, thus far, that's where a lot of people continue to be. >> we're talking republicans unparalleled, the other piece of that, with winning, it shouldn't be hard to vote for joe biden. wherever you are chasing at the white house again, donald trump is another universe of scary and bad. >> another universe. and the woman who told shaq she might vote for trump if he picks the right vice president, i'll put money that he won't. >> but even if he does -- how do you go for the last guy?

>> what she's looking for is for him to pick someone that would embody seriousness. he's going to pick a sycophant, donald trump, you're so great. i don't notice that your face is too orange or your hair is too orange and you that lie every day. that's who he's going to pick. he's never been about building out. he's always been about bringing out the folks that are for him. i do think that if biden can -- and here's the other thing to remember, and i'm kind of harping on this, right now, the party identification is the lowest it's ever been in terms of democrat and republican. it's now, just as many people identify as independents as the two parties. so, we probably need to take a stroll down the road of do any of these people end up with these third-party candidates? >> it's interesting. our thanks to shaq brewster with

fantastic reporting. we're going to put these questions and theorys to the biden campaign. coming up in a little bit. don't go anywhere, for us, a cloud of confusion, brand-new evidence in the trump pot, shows how trump allies started to overturn the election that trump lost, just days after election day. that's next. all parts working in sync to move your business forward. with a streamlined shipping network. and new, high-speed processing and delivery centers. for more value. more reliability. and more on-time deliveries. the united states postal service is built for how you business. and how you business is with simple, affordable and reliable shipping. usps ground advantage.

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it is exactly the kind of smoking gun evidence that was bound to come out eventually.

trump has said the wheels of justice ground over and over again. revealed that his deputies in the fake elector plot really did do what people worried that they did. we've all been numb or distracted by other things. frankly, only november's election will answer that question. but here is the evidence that the fake electors were always a scam and a sham and a political smoke screen, not an actual legal strategy. two trump lawyers, ken neither chesebro, he has pleaded guilty in georgia to crimes, part of that felony rico case that's been charged and jim terpis, another trump lawyer, settled their suit over that plot. as part of that settlement, the lawyers turned over pages of documents including emails and photos that show the true intent behind the fake electors scheme.

"the new york times" reporting, through litigation, mr. chesebro said the campaign could allege various systemic abuses and court proceeding pending. quote, at minimum, with such a cloud of confusion, no votes from wisconsin and perhaps also michigan and pennsylvania should be counted perhaps enough to throw the election to the house. mr. chesebro wrote to mr. tropeis referring to the swing states of michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. of course, we all know what they thought the house was going to do for them. this is stunning, let's bring in "the new york times" congressional reporter luke broadwinter. this is amazing. i read it and read it again. of course, we're going to get to this chapter, but here it all is in black and white. >> right, and you really see the origins of the schemes to overturn the election and text

messages and see mails, it's literally one day after the associated press declares that joe biden has won the election that you see the first email come in in which ken chesebro who has since pled guilty to conspiracy proposes this idea of creating a sea of confusion that could be used to their advantage politically, to try to use politics to overturn the election, rather than the actual votes of the voters. and then, you see it go all the way through to ken chesebro himself there with the crowd on january 6th. he's taking a picture of himself and sends it to tim troupis who brings him into the campaign and troupis responds enjoy the history that you've made there, right before the crowd there with the capitol. you can see the through-line all the way, with the pitch that we

saw on january 6 and how it resulted in that dark day in history. >> luke broadwater, you see that the quote, trump said let them do it it, enquote, that you see that the lawyers were just trying to get it to the house. and the house was already part of a plan of overthrowing an election that sends them back to the house. it's crazy. >> yeah. i mean, it's very clear if you read the emails and these text messages that the litigation was always sort of a subterfuge. now, there was a distraction, to try to get, the end result, which was the overturning of the election. so, they were really looking at anything they could just to keep the courts in motion, to keep sort of a smoke screen going, where they could achieve their political end which was to keep donald trump in power. and a couple times they refer to that, you can see they really

wanted litigation in georgia. they thought they could get litigation through clarence thomas, up to the supreme court. and that that would put special pressure on mike pence to agree with them on january 6. so, they had all of these theories and strategies, and this really fascinating batch of emails that came out as a result of this settlement. >> what's amazing to you is their disdain for mike pence's refusal to go along with the coup. this is one of the attacks from chesebro to troupis, the two trump lawyers. quote, i sketched what we had in mind with alternate electors of pence not opening envelopes. i detected no enthusiasm from the electoral count act. i now thing that pence had decided by then not to do anything to press the envelope or create a test case but decided not to be straight with the president. if he had be up front, trump would have known he had no course other than winning before january 6. if i'm right, pence gave him false hope.

amazing that pence is sort of who he is, when they all were willing to throw him under the bus. >> yeah, and there is -- in fact, some of those text messages as you see, chesebro has taken, he's actually taken the copies of the false slates of electors, and he's gotten them in the hands of republican congressmen to get them over to pence. you can see he expressed frustration that a pence aide won't except some of the fake electors because the envelope's been open and improper. he's insisting that the envelope's been sealed and everything's been done right. you can tell in these texts that pence really doesn't want to have anything to do with the false slate of electors. and they're really trying to hoist them on to him and their frustration is very palpable in the messages. >> he's not here, i'll weissman. he tweeted this while jack smith's cases are on hold,

here's a thought, instead of waiting, indict chesebro and the other co-conspirators, thank you for this fantastic reporting to spend some time on it to talk about it. coming up for us, in politics, when the dust settles in the republican primary there will likely be one man standing between the white house and donald j. trump and that is president joe biden. we'll talk about the biden strategy for denying the ex-president another term in office with a member of his campaign team, next. ah, these. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? life, diabetes, there's no slowing down. each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. that's why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. uniquely designed with carbsteady.

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♪♪ democratic voters and even a few republican voters across our country, you'll see one thing, there is a very real and tangible fear of losing our democracy. that fear is something that has not gone unnoticed. by the smart people over at biden campaign headquarters. they are banking that democracy will, as it was, in the last election, continue to be top of mind for significant chunk of voters in november. joining our conversation about this very topic from wilmington, delaware, at the biden headquarters, the campaign headquarters directors is here. how's it going? >> i'm doing well, thank you for having me. >> we were talking about you, we talked to you a couple hours ago. we appreciate you jumping on in

short order. we should talk to you. tell me what will you're looking at and sifting through tomorrow after the super-tuesday results come in? >> yeah, look, tonight is further going to submit what we have known what is the reality for some time now, a general election between joe biden and donald trump. who is on the front foot, with the metrics that matter, it's joe biden on his front foot relative to donald trump, it's joe biden consolidating the democratic base, while donald trump continues to struggle with the hard core maga base. it's joe biden who has amassed $130 million in his war chest while donald trump if you look the agenda, it's joe biden who is running on a historic record of accomplishment that's incredibly popular with the american people, versus donald trump who is running on an agenda that's even more extreme than the last time he ran for office and held power. as we kick start the general election, go into the month of

march, this campaign is on its front foot with the voters who are going to decide the election. >> i mean, extreme agenda is putting it politely. donald trump is running as a, quote, dictator on day one. are you surprised the polls are close at all? >> well, listen, we are eight months out from this election and so not going to put too much stock into any one poll. obviously the quinnipiac poll had joe biden up, there are other polls saying otherwise at this stage in the race, but for us right now what matters is communicating relentlessly with the voters who are ultimately going to decide this election and it's go we're looking into the data tonight to see where further targets might lie and make sure that we are talking about everything that's at stake. as you said, our very democracy is at stake. we have a candidate in donald trump who is pledging to serve as a dictator on day one, who is bragging about the role that he played in overturning roe v. wade as we now see further implications of that playing out in states like alabama where access to fertility treatment is now at risk.

he's openly rooting for the economy to crash because he thinks it's going to help him politically. that's the fundamental choice and the stakes we are communicating to the american people as folks wake up and realize that we are in a general election right now. you have somebody in joe biden who is waking up every day fighting for them and somebody in donald trump who every single day is thinking about himself while he's running a campaign of revenge and retribution and threatening to tear down the very fabric of our democracy. >> so, yes. first of all, i don't think enough has been talked about that trump has had way more votes against him in these primaries than president biden. you know, president biden is dominating every primary contest in a way that donald trump would like to dominate and he has not. my question to you is how soon are you all going to move full staffs for groundwork in, what, the 12 or 13 states that are going to decide this election? are they already there? how much of the campaign is going to be spent on that kind

of groundwork? how much are you going to try to take this campaign locally to those states that are going to really make the difference once we vote the first tuesday in november? >> yeah, that work has already begun in earnest in all the battleground states that are going to decide this election. i think you can expect us to ramp up those efforts throughout the month of march and into the spring because the work begins now. we have to do the work of building the grassroots army that's going to communicate with voters on the ground in every single state. we obviously need to communicate on the airwaves, but we also have to communicate digitally on all the platforms where voters consume their information. those efforts began in earnest last year, we are now at the point in the race we are scaling up those efforts because to your point this is a national election but it's a series of statewide elections. in the ball west, in the south, in the south, the states that will get us to 270 this campaign is aggressively ramping up its operation toss meet the moment and confront the threat that poses us in donald trump. >> michael, david jolly.

democrats and particularly joe biden have often polled pretty much upside down on the issue of border security against republicans and yet won elections. this race they are really historically upside down and we saw a new posture from the president after the bipartisan senate bill on border security. joe biden said he would shut the border down, it was language we typically haven't heard from the president nor leading democrats to turn that issue around on republicans. can we expect to see that joe biden going into november? will the campaign spend money on that type of messaging on the border? >> well, listen, this issue is emblematic of the entirety of the choice facing the american people in november. you have a president in joe biden who is working to bring people together to actually solve the problem, to put solutions on the table. he said bring me a bipartisan solution that secures the border and helps fix our broken system, put it on my desk and i will sign t we were working towards

that until donald trump came along and said below it up. he said blame me if this doesn't get through. he did that because he thinks it helps him politically and that's the fundamental choice. that's true on border security and fixing our broken system, true on the economy, true on our fundamental rights and freedoms as it relates to abortion. you have somebody in joe biden who is working to bring people together to solve problems and you have donald trump who is blowing things up, does not care the damage that he causes, the harm that he inflicts so long as he's serving himself. it's true on this issue and every issue facing the american people as we head towards november. >> michael tyler, communications director for the biden/harris reelection campaign, thank you for joining us our conversation as it was under way. we're grateful to you. >> thank you for having me. >> i think some of your point in the beginning getting on offense, campaign does channel that more offensive -- i mean, i like what he said about being on the front foot, but there is a long -- i guess there are many more days, many more news cycles to be waged, but there is a long way between a campaign footing

and the perception of the voters. how do you read that? >> republicans time after time rely on negative partisanship, democrats are awful, they're terrible, it's a bad economy, it's a bad border. in this case you have one of the most productive administrations we've seen in recent history on all of those issues and my point earlier was don't fight on the republicans' playing field because you will lose because the numbers are upside down. crush -- crush their narrative with a message about what the biden administration is doing. i think you've seen michael right there perfectly on message and i expect we will see the president at the state of the union exactly the same. >> claire? >> yeah, i agree. and i think thursday night is more important -- >> than usual. >> -- than usual. >> me, too. >> because he has got to come out swinging. he has got to call out the republicans for their failure to do anything -- >> you can hear it already. >> oh, yeah. and by the way, we may miss the,

hey, you ought to call him out. this is what you've got. you have people that want to scream and don't want to help the american people. he's got a real opportunity thursday night, i hope he takes advantage of it. >> it's so fun to watch these events with two people who have been in it, who have done it, and who know exactly what they're talking about. >> who had to sit through many state of the union addresses in that chamber. >> on election day the only people that anybody talked to were people who had to stand before voters, it's a whole different thing. thank you for being here with me. up next for us, msnbc's super tuesday coverage continues. don't go anywhere. go anywhere. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis, help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. you know, when i take the bike out like this, all my stresses just melt away. i hear that. this bad boy can fix anything.

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i love joe biden and i think he's done a great job, but i do worry with his age, but, you know, given the alternative, trump or biden, there's zero percent chance i'm ever voting for trump. like it's either have democracy and a guy that's too old to run it or democracy ends, those are your choices. that's one perspective for you. hi, again, everybody, it's now 5:00 in new york as we continue msnbc's special coverage of super tuesday. an exciting day around here. we are watching democracy at work, it's never not thrilling. americans in 16 states have been exercising their right to vote all day long. casting ballots for who they want to move forward to the general election contest and ultimately represent them or their parties in the coming year. but it's that exact right that hangs in the balance based on

what happens next november. polls begin close to go hours from right now and donald trump is expected to handily defeat nikki haley in the republican nominating contest as he has been doing in recent republican primaries. meaning he will after tonight be mere inches from officially clinching the republican nomination after tonight's results roll in. that means the stage will very shortly be set for a rematch between donald j. trump and joe biden in november. it is a stark race, as stark a race as we have ever seen, where each candidate has made democracy, or the lack thereof, a major pillar of the candidacies. president joe biden has stressed the importance of safe guarding our institutions and our country's free and fair elections, warning that we could lose them and our republic if he's not reelected. which is not hyperbole, it's not a political message. it's the truth. this is likely 2024 opponent

still hasn't conceded the last election, his 2020 defeat. instead spreading lies and distrust about the foundation of our democracy, our election systems. he's also said publicly that he wants to be a dictator, quote, on day one, end quote. for his part president joe biden seems to already been treating the contest as though the general election is under way where he's running against his predecessor donald trump. axios reports on his strategy, quote, president biden is privately pushing for a much more aggressive approach to 2024. go for donald trump's jugular, biden is convinced he will rattle trump if he taunts him daily. biden has told friends he thinks trump is wobbly both intellectually and will explode if biden goads him. wow, that sounds fun. we start the hour with democratic strategist and director of the public policy program at hunter college basil

is at the table, tim miller also at the table. what are you watching for tonight? >> you know, one of the things that i want to see really is does -- does nikki haley in some way, shape or form get enough support to chip away at the narrative for donald trump that he can't be a general election candidate. >> inevitability if that's in question, that's all he's got. >> that's all he's got. listen, his support as we know is rock solid, those whatever 30%, 40% that he's got he's going to get that, but i'm looking for any narrative that democrats can weave to say, look at how many people that you could have gotten but didn't because they don't want to see you in a general election. so that's really what i'm looking for tonight. ultimately he gets what he gets and we're going to be set for that rematch. so i'm ready to go there. >> what about biden's plan to trigger him? >> i love that. >> whether that's a technical term. >> intellectually and emotionally wobbly.

i love that. and i think he's absolutely right. during the obama years we talked about when they go -- when they go low we go high, i think that was it. >> michelle obama. >> michelle obama. i support her but i never supported that. >> me, neither. as an ex-republican i knew it would never work. >> the bronx in me doesn't support that, either. you have to hit them on the nose if the bully attacks. this is not the time to go high when they go low, this is a street fight. you don't bring a book or a knife to a gun fight. i hate to use violent terms but the reit reality is this is a fight for our democracy. you have to be strong and take it to the street. if you believe that he is intellectually wobbly and immature, emotionally immature, bring that out because you will have it for all of america to see and they will make a decision after. >> tim? >> i can't believe we're here for a quick second before i tell you what i'm -- >> please. >> something about being here with nicolle.

i have to do a quick rant. it's crazy that we're here. he is about to win every state on super tuesday three years after the insurrection? >> here is what i looked up today, it was may 16th when he clinched the nomination in 2016 and he's stronger eight years later after his debacle -- you can't find one ex national security adviser who was a national security person going in that came out thinking his presidency went well or was a good idea. not john bolton, not john kelly, not jim mattis. it's amazing that he's now two months ahead that have schedule. >> you also couldn't find one person if we had a time machine and you were able to take them a photo of what happened on january 6 of trump flags and confederate monuments flags and give them one photo, in eight years this will have happened and you will be for t you will be for him again. i just -- everybody would have said, come on, tim, you guys

have tds, you have trump derangement syndrome. >> i got some sensitive when people said that. >> sure. we're sitting here tonight, i would love to tell you that i'm looking at the cross tabs and trying to see if nikki haley is strong and where he's weak, but it doesn't matter. this is trump's party, it's a cult. on the margins those voters will matter in november and we can talk about that, and what nikki haley does over the next few months is going to be very important, more important than what happens tonight frankly and whether she endorses him or not, et cetera, but tonight at least at the presidential level there are also a bunch of interesting primaries where maga candidates are running. >> did you tell me that steve kornacki is ready. okay. so this is the whole thing. this is the highlight of the night. we have our first look at the competition of today's electorate. our first chance to talk to nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki who is at the big board.

>> one thing to keep in mind here is there are only three states tonight where we're going to have exit polls. most of the states that vote we won't have exit polls for, but virginia, north carolina and california we have some exit poll data for and secondly, if you've been watching the first couple of primaries here, there's always a disclaimer when we show you exit polls at this time of night or late afternoon, this early. this is the initial wave of exit polling results. there are more interviews that will be conducted, that are going to go into this poll. the poll is sort of a work in progress. we're showing you a picture that's beginning to come into focus, but that picture is not yet fully in focus yet. so with those disclaimers let's take a look at what we're finding in in initial wave of exit polls. i think one key question has been what's the composition of the electorate in each state in terms of party identification. we're asking voters do you think of yourself as a republican, as an independent or as a democrat. the higher that nonrepublican number we've seen the better

nikki haley has been doing. in virginia in this initial wave 60% calling themselves republicans, 29 independent, rounding here, that's why it's going to add up to 101 on your screen, and 12% calling themselves a democrat. it's a 60/40 split republican, nonrepublican. one metric to keep in mind, one benchmark to keep in mind in what so far has een nikki haley's best state, new hampshire, she got 43% of the vote in new hampshire, the nonrepublican and republican was split 50/50. haley got 43% of the vote. it was still 11 points shy of trump. that was her best showing. it was 50% republican and 50% nonin new hampshire. here it's about 40% nonrepublican. virginia polls will close at 7:00 eastern time. take a look at north carolina here. same question, how do you think of yourself, what party?

62 republican, 34 independent, 4 democratic. again, that's a 62/38 split, context for that, 50/50 is the mix that so far has produced the best result for nikki haley in these primaries. one more we can show you, california, and the key on california is this is a little complicated so stay with me here. california is a closed primary so you have to be a registered republican to vote in this primary, but we're still asking the question because people sometimes are registered with parties and they're kind of stuck there, they may not want to be there, they may have forgotten to change their registration or something. we're asking folks you are a registered republican, voting in this primary but how do you think of yourself? do you necessarily think of yourself as a republican. that's what we see here in california. 66%, two-thirds, say they think of themselves as a republican, 32 independent, 1% democratic. basically a two-thirds, one-third split in california. again, the key there, this is very different than new hampshire, south carolina,

michigan, states we've already seen. it's very different than virginia and north carolina tonight. california is a closed primary state. so it's a massive state and population wise there's a lot of folks in california, big, sprawling, metropolitan, suburban areas, a lot of areas in california that is extremely favorable to nikki haley, but anyone who is an independent and anyone who is a democrat in those areas, and that's a lot of voters in those areas, can't vote in this primary. this is just among registered republicans. two-thirds think of themselves as republicans, one-third think of themselves as nonrepublicans and the benchmark for haley, the best number she's gotten in new hampshire is 50/50. one other wave looking at these electorates, just sort of the nature of the electorate in each state, we've been asking this question in the exit poll of republican primary voters, did joe biden legitimately win the election in 2020? again, you're seeing variants state to state. let's start in virginia on that

question and it's a plit here. 45% say yes, joe biden legitimately won in 2020, 46% in his first wave of the exit poll saying, no, joe biden didn't. again, in the state that was best for nikki haley so far and that is new hampshire, 11-point loss, 43% of the vote, the number who said in new hampshire that biden legitimately won in 2020 was 46%. so basically what happened in new hampshire on this question right now at least is what we're seeing in virginia. what about the other two states where we're conducting exit polls here? north carolina, here is you see a different result, 34% yes, 60% no. that puts north carolina on this question basically in the same bucket as south carolina. in south carolina it was 36% who said biden had won legitimately. here in this first wave 34% in north carolina. then let's go to california and, again, it's a little

counterintuitive, when you think of california as a whole you think of a big giant blue state, a lot of moderate republicans, this sort of thing. again, closed primary here, so the number in california is just 33%. that's actually the smallest number right now of the three states that we're polling on this. the most overwhelmingly democratic state in in republican universe, the smallest share who think that biden legitimately won in 2020. you see 33, 57, 10% expressing no opinion on this. again, initial wave here, we will have several more. at 7:00 virginia polls close, vermont polls close, 7:30 we will start getting north carolina and then 8:00 we are going to get -- they will start coming in bunches, every hour at 8:00. pretty soon here, less than two hours, the exit polls will be supplanted with the real polls, the votes. >> steve kornacki, did you say that 60% of the self-identified republicans are election deniers? they don't believe joe biden legitimately won in north

carolina. >> in north carolina, i will get it exactly on the screen. 60% in north carolina said no, 34% said yes. by comparison because i say this number bounced around in different states. in iowa, remember, iowa a caucus state, smaller turnout, more hard core republican base, this number came in at 29%. 29% in iowa said biden legitimately won in 2020. new hampshire, a primary, lots of independent participation, 46% said that biden had won legitimately in 2020 and then in south carolina where haley got 40% of the vote, her home state, the number was 36%. so that's the context. michigan we didn't have exit polls for by the way that's why i'm not including michigan here, but 29, 46, 36, the three we've seen so far and in that context you can put 34% here in north carolina, 33% right now in california and right now at least in virginia 45%. so virginia on par with new

hampshire, south carolina is sort of on par with north carolina and honestly the california numbers look a bit like the iowa numbers because it's that closed republican primary. >> i'm not sure what else you need to know. that's so riveting and that's such important baseline information. i'm so glad we asked that question. i'm so happy to see you, steve kornacki, i know you have a long night, thank you for starting it off with us. joining at the us at the table john heilemann is in the house. >> my dad -- my dad, wisconsin born, moved to california in 1957, died in 2017. >> i know. >> registered republican his entire life, voted for richard nixon, voted for ronald reagan, thought donald trump was the worst thing that the ever happened to the republican party. that man spinning in his grave right now over that california number. registered republican his whole life. the idea that a third -- only a third of republicans in california -- >> that believe our elections. >> i mean, again, my dad does

not spin in his grave very often, except for watching my personal comportment, but on political issues he is surely spinning in his grave. >> let me play this in sort of the spirit of that kind of republican. this is a nikki haley voter talking about trump. she's a pro-life, anti-abortion voter, and anti-trump. >> what was the biggest factor in influencing your decision this time around? >> trying to put the message out that donald trump should not be leading the republican party. i mean, i can't say it enough. i think that he is -- his morals are completely misplaced and someone who -- who is paying off porn stars while his wife is at home pregnant, someone who has been found guilty of sexual

assault should not be leading our country. >> i don't know if i'm more surprised to hear it or that we don't hear it more. >> well, yeah, both. i mean, both honestly. you know, it's -- i mean, it tells you why -- the other thing this is talking about one of the things kornacki said talking about the cognitive dissidence around, i want to go back to california, i don't know about you, but the other three of us have various connections in the state of california, lived there, born there, went to school there, whatever. you would listen to when i was out in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina you talked to trump people and when they would talk about their certainties about why they were going to be the nominee, the whole thing is a giant kabuki exercise for a whole year they would all point to california. i said as an illustrative example of what would happen when we got to the march primaries you would have more of these closed primaries, winner take all primaries.

every time you would hear someone say, well, california will put us -- this close to the nomination. it was always like that moment of cognitive dissidents of how you think about california, rightly thinks about california, both as a blue state but also what the california republican party has been traditionally which has been, you know, the arnold schwarzenegger republican. it's radically different now. >> but it has in its dna the pete wilson anti-immigrant, orange county stuff. >> everything that's happened to the republican party under trump was fore told by the change in california republicanism the '70s into the '80s, into the '90s and into the century. it is so fully -- it is a third rump party now in california. there's the democratic party, there is independent unaffiliated and then there is this little tiny sliver of the relatively -- a third, the third most popular party effectively in california, but, again, for

donald trump it's ticket to ride. >> so to speak. >> sorry? >> so to speak. >> i don't do this very often but i want to show you something lara trump. i can't get it out without laughing. >> are you going to play sound? when is the last time you called for lara trump -- >> they're like she will never use this. >> mark it on your calendars, folks, this is a moment for history. >> yeah. let me play it, i will explain myself afterwards. >> i can assure you there will be no funny business. anyone who is not on board with seeing donald trump as the 47th president and america loving patriots all the way down the ticket being supported by the rnc, is welcome to leave because we are not playing games and we have no time to waste. so we have to ensure that every single penny of every dollar donated goes to the causes people care about. >> it's literally all a game,

the fake electors we learned in the "new york times" it was all a gym. the whole thing is a game. this is the january 6 family. >> can we just do -- what is that network, and you might know -- >> it's real america's voice. i tried to watch one hour a week. it's one of the core -- bannon is on t charlie kirk is on it, it's a tv network on directv. the video feels like either wayne's world or belarus or a combo. the daughter-in-law has taken over the party and she is demanding loyalty. if the daughter-in-law says if you do not have full loyalty to my father-in-law you're out. >> wasn't that a couple of years ago where you had all of those tv stations around the country reading that same disclaimer. >> sinclair. >> it's the same thing. >> the president's daughter-in-law, there's also a getter tag. all these -- it's like -- >> a down market truth social.

>> it's like swahili. not a language i understand. >> but it played it after the nikki haley voter because even with -- you know when north korea launches the missiles and we air the north korean newscast. i mean, even with the disinformation coming from the ex-president's daughter-in-law on one of their networks that i'm sure is wildly popular among the trump base, you still have nikki haley voters. it's amazing that you have nikki haley voters who know that he was found liable for sexual assault, who know that he -- it's amaamazing. >> look, there was a report some time ago and i love the wording of this because it says that what donald trump does has changed -- has brought a lot of republicans around to his world view. why does that -- that resonated with me because it's not just about winning an election, it's about how he wants to reshape not only american politics but global politics. so when i see a video like that i don't just think about donald trump because he's scary in and

of himself but he is no the ideology. the ideology will come from all the people around him, right? all the people around him that are going to be in the bureaucracy -- that are going to be in the bureaucracy, moving the levers of political power and actually doing the work. when i tell people be careful because you may be able to dismiss donald trump, i don't know how, but you might, always think about the people around him because they are the ones that are actually going to be implementing this. we used to be able to talk about republicans in california and new york as being different than republicans in the rest of the country. no longer. because he really has reshaped people's world view and if you are in new york or california you are no longer immune to that. >> what is the ideology? don't say trumpism. >> we have -- i will play it for you. it's strong men are good, give putin ukraine. sometimes violence is necessary. >> america first. >> we will find it. >> machismo. >> but what it is is something

so, i think, offensive to voters like the woman we just played -- the nikki haley voter. i know you've been on the shrinkage beat, it seems to be shrinking the trump coalition. >> tim has heard me rant about this but doing the first three early state primaries which i love, historically love, have done them all, love doing that. love. love. so depressing doing these and for a million reasons not just because trump was going to win and what it said about the republican party or that it was a foregone conclusion, but just the lack of energy out in the world. the kind of flaccid tone of everybody out there. you hear about it on the democratic side. it's true there are a lot of democrats not thrilled about joe biden, okay, we will go along but we are not loving it. the thing that's striking about it is more on the republican side because -- i say it over and over again, i get yelled at sometimes by the trump base like this. we love him just as much as

before. guys, just the basic metrics, the yard signs aren't there and the turnout at the rallies is not great. yeah, he can still fill an arena but only if he doesn't do an event in that state for a week and then everybody gets the built up energy so they all show up. the republican party -- the turnout numbers are -- and his performance is one metric but another metric is it matches perfectly the actual experience of seeing what it's like out there. a lot of trump voters, not the hard core base that totally venerate him but a lot of trump voters are like, yeah, i guess. i hate joe biden so i guess we have to stick with this clown. that's how it is out there. the trump movement isn't what it once was i will say. >> i have to sneak in a quick break. no one is going anywhere. ahead for us voters going to the polls in alabama in the first election since the state's supreme court ruled that frozen embryos created during the ivf process are children and should be protected as such.

it is a decision that is having a far reaching impact on women and families, not just there but nationwide. today what voters are saying about it as they cast their ballots. we will have a live report next. our series american autocracy it would happen here, what happens when democracies back slide slowly into authoritarianism? whether the 2024 election will decide whether we ever have elections in our country again. scary thought. y thought.

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the supreme court got it wrong, though. >> you believe the supreme court -- the embryo decision? >> uh-huh. >> why do you think they got it wrong? >> because they said embryos are humans? from your perspective do you view embryos as children? >> yes, i think so. yes. >> i think women or families should have control of their lives and their bodies, women in particular. they are interfering with people's lives and happiness. i don't think they got it right. >> voters today in alabama having their say, going to the polls for super tuesday just weeks after the state supreme court made international news of the decision that holds that embryos are children. it has paused ivf treatment for women and their families in that state. the decision was devastating for alabama women hoping to grow their families using ivf. it also created a political

nightmare for republicans from coast to coast while some alabama voters may be split on what ivf is nationally, voters are widely and overwhelmingly opposed to the alabama supreme court's decision and its consequences. like the dobbs decision, that will continue to haunt republicans at the ballot box come november. a new poll finds that 86% of all americans support access, just 14% oppose it. our friend dasha burns is with us in montgomery, alabama, also joining us senior opinion writer for the boston global, kim atkinstore is here. >> reporter: here is something i'm learning from voters as i'm talking to them today. you're right, the vast majority of people support ivf but there is a bit of a disconnect i've heard in my conversations between what the state supreme court did, the ruling that

embryos are children, and the impact on ivf treatment in the state. the fact that some clinics have had to pause treatment. not everyone is connecting those dots. there are a couple people i spoke to when i asked do you agree with the supreme court? do you agree that embryos are children? they confidently said, yes, absolutely, life begins at conception, including frozen embryos, but then i asked do you believe people have you had have access to ivf? another resounding, could have dent yes. and the contradiction and conflict between those two things isn't necessarily clear to voters. while democrats are hoping to use this issue to say, hey, look, all of the consequences of the fall of roe we warned about when we are talking about other reproductive freedoms, yeah, this is happening. take a look at what's going on in alabama. but i do think that democrats are going to have to do a little bit more work especially on this issue that's so complicated if you haven't gone through the ivf process yourself to do more work to tie that together, tie the

decision together with the threat to ivf, tie all of that back to the fall of roe and the door that that has opened to restricting other reproductive freedoms and also tie that to the stakes in down ballot races like today. five of the nine -- five of the nine supreme court seats here in alabama are on the ballot today, including the chief justice who put out this ruling, who put out in his opinion bible verses, he has aged out of his seat, can you believe it, alabama has age limits for their supreme court justices? and so there are folks running to replace him. but it just puts a spotlight on the power that state superior courts and state legislatures have as well. the state legislature right now is trying to sort of fix the problem that the supreme court created, trying to protect clinics from legal liability so that they can continue to operate, but, boy, this is a mess and voters find it messy, too, and some of them are still

a little confused about what it all means. >> kim, we know that dobbs that tragically democrats won't have to do any work because women will start suffering. what ivf is is a miracle and a prayer and a hail mary and a heartbreak and all these things that real women like the real women that we see go through near death, almost dying of sepsis in the united states of america in 2023 because they can't access abortion health care. women will start to feel the consequences and democrats won't have to do any political messaging because real women's lives will be devastated, families will be stalled and dreams will be put on hold because extreme republicans can't get the hell out of women's uteruses. that's what this is all about. it won't take long for voters to figure that out. you can believe whatever you want to believe, actually i think the abortion issue now has more people supporting choice

who are pro-life than at any point in our country's history because removing access to reproductive health care isn't about that for republicans and i think ivf is heading in the same trajectory. >> i think that's exactly right, nicolle. i think in alabama, which is already a very conservative state, you have a very different set of exit polling for voters there than in the rest of the country. those dots will start being connected and you said something very important there which is reproductive health care, which is what i've been saying since the beginning, since before the dobbs decision came down. we talk a lot about abortion access, which is something that definitely moved the needle in the past several elections since the dobbs decision came down, but now we're seeing that cross this threshold, across from abortion access, into access to birth control, into actual ivf which is just a crucial tool for

people who want to expand their families and seeing the impact of that, i think that is going to reverberate. i think the fact that lawmakers in states and so far in congress in washington, d.c. have not closed that loophole completely, it's making people very aware of just how far their rights are. i think this is something tangible. we all know people if not in our own families who used ivf. it is something that is tangible in a way that saving democracy is not necessarily or in a way that the end of affirmative action isn't if it didn't apply to you personally. this is something that people understand. i think this is massively going to move the election in 2024 and in the future. >> i mean, dasha, i guess all the evidence we need to sort of bolster what kim is saying is that even donald trump knows it. i saw him race out to the microphones and say we are very strongly for the ivf and -- i mean, they have no idea what

they've done, but they know exactly how screwed they are. >> there is a disconnect to -- sorry, nick coal. >> nicolle. >> there is a disconnect between what is happening at the federal level with trump trying to push the party to moderate its tone and rhetoric on abortion because he knows -- we heard him talk about this, he blamed the 2022 midterms on the abortion messaging from some of the candidates, some that he endorsed. at the same time as he is reportedly look ago the 16 weeks trying to bring consensus, you have states like alabama, like florida that's looking at a personhood bill, you have states, their court and state legislatures that are very conservative going the opposite direction, going to the right on this issue. so it's going to muddy the waters and make it a lot more difficult for republicans at the federal level to say, hey, no, we don't disagree with what

alabama did if there's example after example after example of red states pushing this issue further and further to the right. >> kim, the only reason abortion is illegal in the united states of america is because of donald trump. the sentence can end right there. the court did what it did because donald trump put them there to do this. >> that's absolutely right. and the decision to do that happened swiftly, as soon as he got that third appointment. but in places like alabama and elsewhere where you have not just elected state lawmakers, but also elected judges, i believe that this is going to reverberate down the ballot as well. i believe you have judges who believe, like those in alabama, that they have the constituency to rule as they did and then they're going to realize that half of the electorate may see things very, very differently. so i expect that blow back to go down generally. i don't like the concept of elected judges but i think what

you're going to see is those elected judges hear from voters as well. i think this is an issue that can really change the complexion of elections up and down the ballot for quite some time. >> trump is still the leader of the republican party and has taken over the republican party in part because of the reptilian survival instinct. on this issue he's mostly repress it had but it bursts out of the seams, right, when ivf gets overturned and then he comes out and says we're strongly for t when he diagnosis the losses in the midterms, the extreme views on abortion that have women in the united states of america dying of sepsis when they're pregnant and can't get health care. donald trump will try to run from this and it is the biden campaign's first, second and third job to make sure they can't. >> absolutely. he might get away with it if they don't do it very well because donald trump reads to people, i think correctly, as somebody that doesn't care about abortion, maybe paid for

abortion, who knows, but certainly -- >> how could you suggest such a thing? shocking. >> his personal vietnam was having sex with random women. i'm just looking at the odds. that was his quote. he doesn't read like mike johnson, right? so i think that there are voters out there who are lower info, he attracted, he attracted people that are not christian conservatives, that are blue collar folks, used to be democrats, attracted to his coalition that they don't want this. they don't want a strict abortion regime. it's up to the democrats to educate those voters and make sure they know that actually weird creepy mike johnson, you know, who wants to be in your bedroom and he signed on to bills that are no abortions ever. like week one. forget exceptions, forget -- and then you get into the ivf stuff. i think that voters are smart enough to get this message if you can tell them we saw this in the midterms, right, where the democrats did the worst actually was in blue states where a lot

of voters didn't feel the scare -- right, like in new york and california, a lot of these voters are like abortion is not going to be banned here. man, in 2024 it's a different story. >> a national ban. >> if donald trump has full control of congress and mike johnson is sending him an abortion ban what is he going to do? >> if you are in new york you think you will get the governor to protect the state. to dasha's point, if you have republicans over decades trying to put judges in the right position and trying to flip state legislatures which they did, democrats lost 1,000 seats during the obama years, so all of these decisions get pushed to the state. if you are a republican you cannot control what certain states are going to do. if you take like what happened in alabama, democrats are k. now tie every republican in the country to that decision and many more because the argument would be look at what they did in alabama, when does it stop? it doesn't stop. there was the great quote with the woman at the top of the

segment, she's talking about it as a function of personal freedom. that's a republican talking point, but democrats can now use that and flip that and say, look at how far the republicans have gone to even impinge upon your personal freedoms. when has that happened? but it's happening now. >> you get the quick last point. >> i would just say brother scarborough reminded us this morning that as late as 1979 people talk about the beginning of the religious right and transformation of american politics around abortion and sexual freedom as emanating from roe v. wade. not true. the southern baptist convention was still pro choice all the way until 1979. a political decision made by jerry folwell in 1979, being pro-life is part of the evangelical conservatism because they had a president in jimmy carter. >> and i would just add bush 41 was still pro choice.

>> yes. still pro choice way back then. yes. this is '79, right? a revolution happened in 1980 around making an issue that had never been politicized before in this way. people had the religious people who were pro-life for sure but it wasn't like there was an alignment between the republican party, christian conservatives on this issue and i've got to say that was our -- that beginning of a long margin, a big transformation in our politics is now to me increasingly looks like when the history of this era is written, this era post dobbs and maybe this presidential election is when we're going to start to see that -- all of those coalitions and alignments are undone and a new thing -- >> it's the biggest tectonic shift in our politics. >> it's huge. >> massive. >> to be continued. dasha burns, kim, jim, thank you so much for spending time with

us on this super tuesday. when we come back our series american autocracy it can happen here continues with a very special guest, tim snyder is here who has written on tyranny and authoritarianism around the world. his biggest fears about the potential, the possibility of a second trump presidency and why electing a strong man leader never ever works out for the voters who put him in office. that is next. for the voters who put him in office that is next starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant... that's a different story. with the chase ink card, we got up and running in no time. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card. make more of what's yours. [♪♪] did you know, many moisturizers only hydrate your skin? for advanced science that visibly repairs signs of aging... try olay regenerist micro-sculpting cream. it delivers 10 benefits in every jar for younger-looking skin, visibly firming, lifting, and smoothing wrinkles. olay regenerist penetrates the skin's surface, to boost regeneration at the surface cellular level

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he said tonight, quote, it's nice to have a strong man running the country. what does that mean to you? >> it means somebody that's got some backbone. >> i believe that sometimes history calls for strong men to be strong lead sneers amen. >> at key times in our history. >> yes. >> i think that he would be perfect for the job. >> amen. it's something that is heard over and over again on the campaign trail at trump events from trump supporters today right now. happening right now. this delusion that a strong man is a good thing and our country, our democracy actually needs right now. it's a talking point they're stealing from donald trump who is constantly going on and on about his affinity for and admiration for the tools deployed by autocrats like putin and xi. this friday he's having vic for viktor orban over for dinner and a hang at mar-a-lago. when millions of americans do

the spectacular thing of taking time out of their day to exercise their sacred right to vote let's stop for a second and really have a conversation about what that means, what a strong man would mean for american life, even for those trump voters as we all know it. it's something we've been trying to stop and drill down on in our new series american autocracy, it could happen here. it's a question that's been casting a shadow over every facet of american life since trump first took power the first time back then the idea of tyranny or autocracy would have any place in american civic life or that their ideas would become popular in america seemed unfathomable, and yet the improbable and unfathomable overnight success of a teeny tiny pocket-sized book called "on tyranny" from professor tim snyder even at the time was prescient and suggested otherwise. it identified links between

fascism past and present anchored in lessons from the holocaust and from russian totalitarianism and put americans on notice that, yes, it could happen here. "the new york times" likened "on tyranny" to a medical pamphlet worried about an infectious disease, in this case autocracy. quote, read it carefully and be on the lookout for symptoms. that was in 2017. now here we are, tracking those symptoms and searching for a remedy. joining us now yale university history professor and author of the best seller "on tyranny" 20 lessons from the 20th century, tim snyder. i have to say thank you so much, it's a privilege to have you here today, on a day when people are voting and ask you if you thought it would come to this. >> well, i've always thought that it could come to this. the only thing that stops it is when you are aware that it's possible. when you think you're special, when you think it can't happen, you are inviting it to happen. we do have this candidate, this

unusual person, who unfortunately is quite talented at bringing people along with him and making what did seem abnormal suddenly normal. so, yeah, here we are. >> do you feel optimistic that we can get off of this path? because when i asked liz cheney if there are other democracies that slide this far and avert that back slide into autocracy she couldn't name one. >> yeah, poland 2023. it does happen and we have to believe that we can make it happen. i mean, i believe that we can make it happen. it depends on this election november 2024, but making it happen will depend on people realizing that each

it can happen and we have a couple of months to make it happen. >> there's humility in that. >> there's humility in flipping that switch and saying it can so let's be vigilant. what does that sort of -- and it seems like you're articulating a fork in the road for us. what does it look like if we take the path towards humility? >> towards humility? i mean, i like the word humility because it's our whole constitutional tradition. our constitutional tradition is not built on the idea that americans are different, it's a nation which is going to be constructed towards rules and the rules will take into account the fact that we are imperfect and need to be checked and balanced all along the way, right? i think things could get much better. i think we get through this election and maybe one more mid-term, i think things could get much better. the long-term trends i think are quite good for our country. it's a matter of getting through the next couple of years. >> what are the danger signs? what do you sort of track every

morning when you look at the help or lack thereof of our democracy? >> i think the lack of honesty about what's at stake. the idea day to day that what we really should be thinking about is how tired we are or how old joe biden is or these essentially irrelevant things rather than paying attention to the record of the trump administration, the record of the biden administration, the specific things that american citizens could do in the next seven months to make a difference. that's what worries me. the talk about, talk about, talk about talk rather than the awareness of history and the clarity rather than what has to be out there doing something right now. >> it's interesting you bring up history. vonn hilliard is my gifted colleague who was out there and did the interviews. when the trump supporters talk about liking put continues and putin's aims in ukraine and have it. i asked him, what do they think

about the cold war? i mean, it is this erasure of history, this erasure of the holocaust and our place in the world and i wonder how you deal with that in eight months. >> well, in terms of those -- the folks who think they want a strong man, i'm not honestly sure that big concepts are -- it makes more sense to start with things like you think this is going to be your strong man but he's not going to be your strong man. he's going to be his own strong man. he's going to do whatever he wants and once you realize that, that he's not yours, you have to be afraid because you know you can make a wrong move. once you choose the strong man, there's no way back. you've burned that bridge behind you. this is not a menu in the restaurant. you don't get to make more choices. once you burn this bridge you get this guy or whoever follows

him and since you've voted not to vote, his peers, the moment you anoint him, his peers are not going to be you but other oligarchs and dictators around the world. these are the basic logical things that i think people should probably be thinking about. >> tim snider, i'm going to put you on the spot to see if we can call on you. >> thank you very much for spending time with us on this day. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. ♪to my astonishment.♪ ♪my doc gave me a script i got it done without a delay.♪ ♪i screened with cologuard and did it my way.♪ cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer

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. a super tuesday unlike any other. >> i'm being indicted for you. >> primary contests in over a dozen states. >> yes, i'm going t