hundreds of thousands from each donation, millions of dollars, can be routed back to the rnc through this set up. into its legal account, which can be used to pay donald trump's legal bills. they launched that today. if you want to read how that works you can check out my newsletter. >> the graft and collusion between big money interests and the republican party in the official capacity is appalling. i would recommend everyone read your pc. roger sullivan with the daily beast. thank you for your time. that is our show for this evening. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening. >> good evening. for anyone out there who has not heard enough from andrew wiseman tonight, he is coming

up here. as you know, there is so much to cover in tonight's defendant trump news from new york to florida. andrew will join us for that. >> i wanted to keep him on for the whole hour so i'm glad he is yours. >> i know the feeling. i know it very well. >> have a good show. breaking news tonight, federal judge gannon who was appointed by donald trump, denied a motion to dismiss the criminal case filed by jack smith alleging donald trump violated the espionage act by releasing documents after leaving the presidency. jack smith and donald trump were both in the front room of the courtroom while the judge heard arguments from both sides on the motion to dismiss. donald trump did not have to be there. he was there. in the front row.

he was dangling the supreme court nomination in front of his trial judge. judge cannon knows that her future as a trump appointee to the united states supreme court depends on how she handles this case and what voters do on election day. so far she has been handling this case in every way she possibly could to please donald trump. if donald trump wins the presidency again, he would truly approach clarence thomas with an offer he could not refuse. leave the supreme court so donald trump can replace him with a younger conservative like judge cannon. clarence thomas gets a beautiful brand-new custom-built to his specifications, motorhome. the most expensive one in the world. complete with goldplated trump

style faucets. as much private travel as clarence thomas could possibly want on donald trump's private planes and other corporate private planes and massive amounts of money for republican beginners who will put clarence thomas on their boards. that offer, almost as specific as that, was floating right there in the air. in the room between donald trump and judge cannon. right there were anyone with an understanding of donald trump could see it. very much including judge cannon. so, when she wrote the two-page order a couple hours after the hearing denying his preposterous motion for dismissal, claiming that the law is too vague, she wrote her order in the most favorable possible terms to donald trump.

she denied the motion without prejudice, meaning donald trump is allowed and according to judge cannon, encourage, to bring up the same issue later in the process. the judge said one of the points of the process were the motion, during jury selection. sing it could be raised as appropriate in connection with jury instruction briefing and or other appropriate motions. judge cannon did not rule on the second ground for dismissal that they trump lawyers argue today involving donald trump's claim that the documents in his possession belonged to donald trump. they argued that the presidential records act allows the president to designate as personal documents and donald trump designated all of them. judge cannon did say, i am not seeing how any of that leads to the dismissal of the indictment.

host of the podcast, courtside, and andrew wiseman, former fbi and chief of the criminal division in new york. bradley moss is with us. an attorney who represents people working in the intelligence community. andrew, let me go to your reading of the judges order here. in my reading it included almost the encouragement that they bring the issue up again. >> this was the worst possible outcome for the government. if the judge had simply said, i agree with donald trump. i find it is vague and i'm dismissing it, the government could have appealed it to the 11th circuit. as they have done twice before and won twice before. that is something that this judge is trying to avoid at all costs.

she also did not want to rule in favor of the government. what she did, she said why don't you bring it up later? i think there is some real issues here. she flagged that. there will be a lot of complications if she deals with this after a jury is sworn in this case. that is the key moment where double jeopardy attaches. the various legal consequences to that. this is the worst possible decision for the government. by kicking it down the road and saying that i still may decide in donald trump's favor later, she has avoided the 11th circuit. she has not given the government what they clearly deserved. there is nothing vague about the statute. people are in jail. as bradley knows, for violating the statute. >> neil, your reading of what

happened in that courtroom today and the ensuing judgment? >> andrew is basically ray. there were definitely better outcomes for the government, including possibly a straight loss. that would've allowed them to take the appeal. on the other hand, judge cannon did basically suggest that this is not vague or vague enough at this moment. that is a win for the government. it's only a temporary win. not a huge one. my fear is that it will be a win for jack smith in the same way as they win will be once the supreme court decides the absolute immunity case that they are hearing on april 25th. i think there is no chance the united states supreme court will side with trump on absolute immunity. by the court having a delayed schedule, it gave donald trump what he wants. a very realistic possibility he can delay the case past the

election. that is basically what judge cannon did here. kicking the candelabra. she had a full day hearing about these two legal issues which were absurd. the only thing donald trump's arguments merit is an eye roll and a swift denial. not this one day hearing in the like. every time she has these hearings, it delays the day of reckoning for donald trump. that is all he wants because if he can stretch this past the election he can order the justice department to drop this prosecution. >> bradley moss, given the history of the espionage act and the use of it in criminal cases, has this ever been raised before, that it is too vague to use in prosecution? two every single criminal defendant who has ever been prosecuted brings the same motion. they all argue it is

unconstitutional. it is too vague, it cannot be applied like this. they all failed. judges over and over, multiple district courts across the country have always rejected this argument. what concerns me and it's following up on what andrew said, judge cannon failed to meet the moment. this will be one of the most monumental cases she will handle. all tied up with donald trump one way or another where judges had to put their name in a moment of history to say here is my view on the law. right or wrong, this is how i am assessing if she keeps punting, trying to push it off on somebody else to make the tough choice. she's trying to push it off to potentially being a jury issue. making 12 ordinary americans evaluate things that lawyers who are harder than me argue over every day. now she was to get onto a jury. this is her job. she will have to rule on this

as a matter of law or she will put too much burden on this jury. >> andrew, and never occurred to anyone in a confirmation, a judicial confirmation hearing, to ask the question, will you recuse yourself from criminal cases involving the president who appointed you? of course, it has never happened in history. here we are. here the country is watching this grotesque trump appointed judge leaning in every way she can in favor of the man who appointed her to her judgeship. the most glaring and poisonous conflict of interest you could ask for in a federal courtroom, because it also contains now this dynamic of her judicial future if donald trump were somehow to win the electoral college again. it obviously is dangling in the air there. it is totally obscene.

>> i agree with you that what she is doing and her behavior -- the fact that she has been reversed twice for not just making minor errors, but significant errors. all of the things she has done, is one-sided. it raises all of the things that you say. there are two victims here. one, the public. it is entitled to a speedy and fair trial here. at which the defendant is accorded due process. the other is something worth remembering, there are judges appointed by donald trump who are really good judges, who take their oath seriously. there are judges appointed by republicans presidents who rule against republicans. there are judges appointed by democrats who will rule against

democrats. why? because they act on principle. one of the things she has done, has made it extremely relevant to ask that question of who appointed you? it is hard to see any other explanation for the way that she has behaved. even trying to think, is it just an experience? she has shown over and over again that it is not a consistent acclamation for how she is behaving and the way she's handling this case. >> neil, some of us remember the most important supreme court case involving the president of the united states. it involved criminal behavior, richard nixon. it was a unanimous supreme court opinion ordering him to turn over the tapes which ultimately ended his presidency. he needed a pardon after leaving the presidency so he would not be prosecuted.

at least four of those judges, three of them at least were appointed by richard nixon. at the time, no one had an issue with that. no one's faith was shaken in the possibility that judges appointed by nixon would be deciding his fate. at this point in the 21st century is another world. >> you are exactly right to think about nixon. there was a concern that the three nixon appointees would side with nixon out of loyalty. they did not. just justice requested. that is the historic world of the judiciary. stephen breyer, the year after nominated by bill clinton with the paula jones case, he ruled against bill clinton despite all of the politics and the pressure. i remember when the

affordable care act was being argued and it was chief justice roberts who cast the deciding vote to save obamacare. handing a huge victory to barack obama before the 2012 election. that's what judges do. by the way, that is what the court of appeals did to judge cannon. it was three republican appointees who reversed judge cannon twice last year in stark language. including a trump appointee. this is the way the federal judiciary is supposed to operate. my deep hope is that it can still happen here. >> this will be a rare moment everybody should record. it should go to the museum of broadcasting. i'm going to not correct the supreme court matter, i will at a footnote to the reference of that justice who recused himself from the nixon case.

it was an 8-0 unanimous decision. there was nothing to indicate that if he had not recused himself -- readily, the point of his recusal, it kind of goes to making my point here. about judge cannon and why she absolutely is someone who should have recused herself. even recognizing her own lack of experience and ability to handle a case like this. >> it makes you wonder how she's going to handle these other motions that are still pending that she is dragging her feet on? leading up into the segment tonight, andrew and i work joking about various terms and i look at some of the motions that were filed, especially with the presidential records act that was up today and it is nonsense.

there is no possible realistic idea that it could be viable. she used a full day hearing and we still do not have a ruling. that becomes a concern. simply an experience, bias, or she just is not meeting the moment, she's not addressing this in the matter she should. as a u.s. district court judge and she's not putting meat on the bones for these rulings. stop kicking the can and make a decision. let the chips fall where they may. >> i do not know how to spell that. no, the interest of full disclosure, when you said the point about that judge, i wrote a note to myself. saying that he recused -- i was not completely sure. but, our executive producer came into my ear and said that

the judge recuse. we were not relying completely on my memory, which is not better than joe biden's or anyone else's. that's how we got to that fact. that will never happen again. i do not think it's a correction, just a footnote to what you said. isn't it? >> absolutely. i appreciate the correction. i am preparing another argument now so my head is in a different place. >> there was the great trial lower. a lawyer is like being in a bathtub. they pulled the plug after each case and they forget everything they knew in the previous case to make room for the next one. thank you very much. we invite you to add to vocabulary in future segments on the subject. andrew and neil will stay with us. of them bragg said today that new received evidence in the case against donald trump for his hush money, it is her

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manhattan district attorney bragg suggested a 30 day delay for the start of the trial against donald trump for hush money payments to stormy daniels. the district attorney said that some delay in the start of the trial is reasonable because of recently obtained evidence from the u.s. attorney's office in manhattan. the investigator the same criminal payoff scheme when they obtained a guilty plea from donald trump's lawyer who arranged for the delivery of

the payoffs to stormy daniels. the district attorney said that the delay donald trump's lawyers are requesting of 90 days is too long. 30 days would be reasonable because of the production since march 4th of approximately 73,000 pages of records by the u.s. attorney's office. these records were produced in response to defendants january 1820 24 subpoena to that office. yesterday the united states attorney's office produce approximately 31,000 pages of additional records and represented that there will be another production of documents by next week. the da said that so far only 172 pages of that material appears relevant to the case. the da blamed donald trump's lawyers for the delay of obtaining the evidence saying the defendant waiting it until january to subpoena additional

materials from the u.s. attorney's office and then consented to repeated extensions of the deadline for the u.s. attorney's office to termination. the timing of the office productions is a result solely of defendants delay despite the people's diligence. neil and andrew are back with us. neil, it leaves one wondering why the justice department moved as slowly as it did, even though trumps lawyers were not pressuring them? >> first of all, one step forward, two steps back. it seems to be the mantra of all of these trump trials. it is incredibly frustrating how donald trump gets lucky. it is not just luck, his whole strategy is to push and delay at every turn. there are questions to be asked

about why donald trump waited until january of 2024, last month, to seek these documents. that is one question. another, why did the u.s. attorney's office turned this over last year? is it just that they were sitting on their hands? was there a possible other open investigation so they couldn't turn the materials over? we do not know. we do know, once again, donald trump's trial is being delayed. i am really concerned that we are getting close to the election and these important criminal trials, january 6th, mar-a-lago, or this trial, which involves serious campaign- finance abuse, all of these are looking more and more in jeopardy. >> andrew, a 30 day delay in an approaching trial is usually not a big deal, especially if

there is newly discovered material like this that has to be reviewed. it is not something that either side worries much about. yet, with all of this litigation under the microscope, we have to wonder how it came to this in the situation? >> there is looking backwards and forwards. looking backwards, there is no question there are a lot of issues as to what was the southern district of new york thinking when they did not turn over all cometary and exculpatory information to the das office when i asked for it? that is the looming question looking backwards. looking forwards, the problem, we do not know what information is in the 31,000 documents that have been turned over. we heard a lot of it is irrelevant. not all of it is and as you pointed out there is still more to come. that means there could be

information that the defense will use for a further delay. they have not seen that. as neil said, part of this is their fault for not subpoenaing this early. the judge will want to make sure they have an opportunity to look at this. we have to wait and see if there will be additional delay because of what the southern district of new york did with not turning this over when asked by another law enforcement agency who is right down the road from them? it was incumbent on them to cooperate. see macneill, the district attorney does say that they asked for this stuff a long time ago. seems to try to entirely blame the delay on the trump lawyers. >> that is their move. i have to say that i have some skepticism about the southern district of new york's handling of this entire matter.

in 2018, they refused to prosecute donald trump and only prosecuted his lawyer, dr. -- once biden came into office they refused to prosecute biden again. now there seems to be some sort of unexplained delay in turning these documents over. i do not know what is happening here? i do think that andrew is absolutely right. the combination of all of this is at least a 30 day delay. donald trump deserves a fair trial. if a bunch of the documents are relevant to his defense or to the prosecution, he will get a delay because of that. >> andrew, before we go, what is the likelihood of merrick garland being involved in the delay or aware of it? >> it is possible, but i do not think it is likely. the southern district of new york is an independent united

states attorney's office. it does report up to the deputy attorney general and the attorney general. a matter like this, it is not clear that it would've gone that high. this is not the kind of thing i can see merrick garland doing. there may be issues people have, this does not smack of something he would do. >> thank you for joining our discussions. andrew and melissa will be hosting a special tomorrow night at this hour. the trump indictments. 10:00 p.m. on msnbc based on their new best-selling book. coming up, vp harris made history as the first president or vp to visit an abortion clinic. congresswoman barbara lee, who did not have an abortion clinic to visit when she was a 16-year- old who needed one, will join us next.

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i am here at this healthcare clinic to uplift the work that is happening in minnesota as an example of what true leadership looks like. it is to understand, it is right and fair that people have access to the healthcare they need. and that they have access to healthcare in an environment

where they are treated with dignity and respect. >> today the sixth stop on her fight for reproductive freedom store, vice president harris became the first vice president or president to visit a clinic that provides abortion services. the vice president met with healthcare providers during a tour of planned parenthood in st. paul elmstrand , minnesota. >> part of this crisis is the clinics like this that has had to shut down. what that has met to leave no options with any reasonable geographic area for so many women who need this essential care. again, it runs the gamut of reproductive healthcare. it is abortion care, it is also as i mentioned earlier, essential and critical reproductive healthcare like pap smears, breast cancer screenings, things of that

nature. i am here to highlight that of the many potentially intended consequences of the dodd decision, one of them have been for healthcare providers in states that have banned or outlawed access to reproductive care. clinics like this shutdown and it's a travesty. >> most of the healthcare services plan. provides are preventive healthcare. >> in this environment, these attacks against an individual's right to make decisions about their own body are outrageous. in many instances, plain tomorrow. how dare these elected leaders believe they are in a better position to tell women what they need. to tell women what is in their

best interest. we have to be a nation that trusts women. >> three years ago, the next guest, barbara lee, told the house of representatives what was coming if roe v wade were overturned. >> i am compelled to speak out because of the real risk of the clock screen turned back before the days before roe v wade. the days when i was a teenager and had a back alley abortion in mexico. reproductive health was not discussed in a meaningful way and i was not sure how you got pregnant. when i turned 16 i missed my period. i wasn't sure of not knowing if i was pregnant or not? in those days, the mid-1960s, women and girls were told that if you did not have a. you should take client nine pills, or use a cold anger and nothing

else worked. my mother noticed that i became introverted so she asked me what was going on? at that point i told her everything. i told her that i might or might not be pregnant. she responded with love. one of my mother's best friends in el paso helped me access the abortion i could not get in california. when my mother told her what was going on, she told my mother to send me to her in el paso. she knew of a good competent and compassionate doctor who had a back alley clinic in mexico. i was one of the lucky ones. a lot of girls and women of my generation did not make it. they died from unsafe abortions. >> joining us now, congresswoman barbara lee. she's the cochair of the congressional pro-choice caucus. thank you very much for joining us tonight for this important discussion.

i imagine even at that time when you told your own personal story about this, there might have been people listening to that who thought, we could never go back to that. >> lawrence, thank you very much for having me with you tonight. there were women and men who were surprised that i talked about an abortion that i had. i never talked about it before. i think the message and the lesson there in terms of my coming forward, was that it was a personal decision. it was nobody's business. it was about my body. it was about my mother and i making the decision that i would have an abortion. mind you, it was illegal in california. illegal in texas. it was illegal in mexico. i knew that i could be criminalized. i also knew that i could die because the highest

rate of deaths were during that time caused relating to black women, septic abortions. thank god i survived. here we are today in 2024. i am happy and proud of the vp, shining the light on the devastating effects of the dodd decision. also the importance of making sure that donald trump is not elected. >> one of the points she made today in minnesota, and a soda has become and say paul elmstrand has become, the new el paso of, for some girls and women in neighboring states, where they do not have access to abortion whatsoever. they have to make that trip. talk about what it is like, what it was like for you at 16 and what it is like for women and girls who actually have to make an interstate trip, a real trip, and make order to handle something like this?

>> it is terrifying. i went by myself. my mother was working. i will never forget, it was my first airplane ride. from burbank into el paso. in fact, i was one of the lucky ones. my mother and my family could afford it. now, so many women, especially women of color, low income women, they do not have the money. they are low-wage in these red states, they do not have resources for childcare. they cannot take off work. how will they travel to another state? it is a double whammy for them. it is a really hard life. if in fact they want to exercise their own orderly autonomy. you have to be able to travel to a state with no money to find an abortion clinic. i want to thank the abortion clinics that are welcoming helping these women. so many are low income and rack

-- >> thank you very much for joining us for this important discussion. >> my pleasure. thank you for having me. coming up, the highest ranking elected jewish official in the united states, chuck schumer, delivered an impassioned speech on the senate floor claiming his love for israel and his heartbreak for the suffering of palestinians in gaza, while out lining up peace plan in opposition to benjamin netanyahu. that is next. make your dream car...a reality. mercedes-benz certified pre-owned vehicles

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people on all sides of this war are turning away from a two state solution. including israel's prime minister, benjamin netanyahu. in recent weeks said repeatedly what many have long expected by rejecting the idea of palestinian statehood and sovereignty. as a highest ranking jewish elected official in our government and a staunch defender of israel, i rise today to say unequivocally, this is a grave mistake. for israel, for palestinians, for the region, and for the world. >> there is no stronger support of israel in the united states

senate than chuck schumer. the first jewish leader of the united states senate. >> we love israel in our bones. israel has met to my generation with the living memory of the holocaust is impossible to measure. the flowering of the jewish people in the desert, from the ashes of the holocaust, and the fulfillment of the dream of the jewish homeland. after nearly 2000 years of praying and waiting, represents one of the most heartfelt causes of my life. what hamas did on october 7th was brutal beyond imagination. i have sat with the families of those killed in the assault. i have seen the footage and heard stories of innocence murdered and in heartless cruelty. as long as i live, i will never forget these images. pure and premeditated evil. my heart also breaks of the

loss of so many civilian lives in gaza. i am english that the israeli war campaign killed so many innocent palestinians. i know that my fellow jewish americans feel the same english. when they see the images of dead and starving children and destroyed homes. gaza is experiencing monetary and catastrophe. entire families wiped out. whole neighborhoods reduced to rubble. mass displacement. children suffering. we should not let the complexities of this conflict stop us from stating the plain truth, palestinian civilians do not deserve to suffer for the sins of hamas. israel has a moral obligation to do better. the united states has an obligation to do better. >> senator schumer reached the breaking point with benjamin netanyahu and what he called the extremists in the benjamin netanyahu government.

>> i will always expect his reverie for israel on the battlefield as a younger man. i believe in his heart he has his highest priority, as the security of israel. however, i also believe prime minister benjamin netanyahu has lost his way by allowing his political survival to take the precedence over the interests of israel. as a lifelong supporter of israel, it has become clear to me that benjamin netanyahu coalition no longer fits the needs of israel after october 7th. the world has changed radically since then. the israeli people are being stifled right now by a governing vision that is stuck in the past. nobody expects benjamin netanyahu to do the things that must be done to break the cycle of violence. to preserve israel's credibility on the world stage.

and to work toward the two state solution. at this critical juncture, i believe a new election is the only way to allow for a healthy and open decision-making process. about the future of israel. chuck schumer did as a member of the greater new york jewish community. and what it must have felt like for chuck schumer to have to go out on the senate floor today and make enthat speech. >> i thought it was a very powerful speech, lawrence. i thought he spoke for many americans, not just jewish americans but other americans who are supporters for israel. he spoke out of love for

israel. he has been the most staunch supporter of israel in the u.s. senate. but one of the things he said t that spoke to me is that israel cannot survive if it is a pariah nation. he is speaking about our children. our children's children and what they will have to undergo if israel doesn't change course. the fact he called for an election in israel was extraordinary but he was doing it out of his concern that the course israel is on under benjamin netanyahu will turn it into a pariah nation and he spoke to us all the humanitarian catastrophe as he called it of what the people of gaza, most of whom are innocent, that is a crisis we have to do something about. >> and ben rhodes delived this in the context of a peace plan. this is not just a critique of the current situation. he is trying to build positive

steps toward a peace plan including what he wants is a temporary cease fire immediately to get hostages out, but also, other elements to the peace plan which include a demand, a hope for new leadership in israel and new palestinian leadership. >> yeah. and i think there are true elements of this. the first is there is enormous frustration in the united states about the israeli government's refusal to listen to anything they are hearing from the united states. particularly as it relates to continuing this military operation into the city of rafah with a million palestinians and could be a greater humanitarian catastrophe. critically, the netanyahu coalition which includes the most far right members of the cabinet we have ever seen in israel's history, literally, clearly their purpose is to prevent the palestinian state from being a possibility. we know this because they tell

us this. so the key minister tells us this. and i think what chuck schumer realizes is if we don't stand up and have people like him with so much credibility in israel and the american jewish community speaking out on behalf of preserving the palestinian state, it could die. this could be killed in the next few months along with so many people in gaza. those two things led him to this breaking point. netanyahu is not listening to us. he is part of an extremist project. >> trump's position on this is that netanyahu should finish the job. that's his phrase, finish the job in gaza. donald trump doesn't e want to inhibit anything that the israeli military is going. he is not interested in any form of cease fire.

so netanyahu knows that the president who would be most favorable to him. the winner of the presidential election that would be most favorable to him would be donald trump. >> yes lawrence. that was the sub text of schumer's remarks. he said the reason that netanyahu is an obstacle to peace is because he regards his own preservation as the leader of israel. one way that he wants to kick the can down the road is to try to survive until donald trump would be collected. that is something that maybe they have in the back pocket. one of the things schumer was thinking about. we need to have elections in israel soon. that is unorthodox. but that is what he was thinking about. >> ben, what are the prospects of elections in israel soon? >> well i think they are quite possible. because keep in mind, netanyahu is at historic levels of hi unpopularity. since october 7th, a lot of

israelis rightly blame him for taking his eye off the ball in gaza. being distracted from the threat posed by hamas. moving some of the idf up to the west bank to defend settlers. because that is part of what his coalition was doing. also distracting and dividing ac the country with his efforts to undermine israeli democracy to neuter the supreme court in israel. you saw a lot of belief from people if there were an election in israel, there would be a different course taken. essentially. >> ben and rich, thank you very much for joining us on this important subject. thank thank you. we'll be right back. ect. thank thank you. we'll be right back. our financial planning tools and advice can help you prepare for today's longer retirement. hi mom. that's the value of ownership.

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