democratic nominee for ohio's sixth state house district which includes columbus, she posted we won. thank you so much to the voters of ohio, house district 6 who put their trust in me. i'm proud to be your democratic nominee and i promise to always fight for you. lead with empathy, and advocate for our most vulnerable neighbors. on ward to the general. christine cockley, democratic nominee for the ohio house of representatives gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. tonight, donald trump's options narrow as his bond deadline looms. and that civil fraud case. what's next for the former president if he can't pay the over 400 million-dollar penalty? then, a controversial immigration law in texas is back on hold. we'll break down what officials there and in mexico are saying

about it all. plus, staff spotlight conversation about the future of the workplace post covid as the 11th hour gets underway on this wednesday night. greetings everyone, i'm simone in for the great stephanie ruhle. we are now 230 days away from the election. and tonight, former president trump is now staring at monday deadline to secure a massive bond to appeal his civil fraud case in new york. now earlier this week, his lawyers admitted they were struggling to find a company willing to post a bond for the $464 million judgment against trump and his codefendants. the list of options appears to be getting shorter. if trump can't secure the bond in just four days, the new york attorney general could start the process to seize his claims unless a court puts it on hold. james urged a state appeals

court to ignore trump's claim about getting the bond. she added if he and other defendants were unable to post bond, they should have, quote, consented to have their real estate interests held by supreme court to satisfy the judgment. earlier today, one of trump's lawyers spoke out about trump's limited options. >> forcing him to sell prized property such as trump tower, 40 wall street, to pursue his appeal is manifest in justice and deprives him of that due process. we can't fix that if we won on an appeal. it is intentionally to interfere in the election. nbc news reports donald trump and some members of his inner circle aring being increasingly frustrated as they face the possibility of not posting bond monday. nbc says trump is now quote hitting up the high dollar donors not only for campaign cash but to see if they might

guarantee his bond. according to one such trump ally to receive a call from the presumptive nominee, the source asked not to be named. the trump campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment. let's bring in our leadoff panel tim o'brien. bloom burg opinion. and trump byographer. one of the few people who have actually gotten a look at donald trump's tax returns. he wrote the book trump nation. the art of being the donald. molly is also here. special correspondent for vanity fair. and legal eagle barbara mcquaid is here. her new book attack from within, howdies information is sabotaging american is out now. and let me tell you. it is a good read. tim, your book is a good read, too. let's start there.

you covered donald trump for a very long time. long is long. so, what sticks out to you that donald trump is frustrated. >> i imagine he is more than frustrating. there is nothing surprising about that. he is in danger of all of his toys getting taken away and the clock ticking very quickly. and i think everything at least that has come out of his camp thus far doesn't indicate they have any good possibilities. if those assets are attached, the damage will be done. and they will have no recourse if they win an appeal. it is simply not true. the attorney general can attack the assets without selling them and essentially keep them in escrow in case she needs to liquidate some of them to make good on the judgment against

him. the problem with trump is he has spent decades playing the smoke and mirrors game with his assets. he has never been transparent about how much debt he has pledged against his various properties. and he has overestimated the value, inflated the value. lied about the value. of the things he owns and part of that is this game he plays with the media to inflate his wealth in order to get more attention. and now he is faced with the embarrassing ugly prospect of having them all open to the public. because of the state of new york is going to have to assess what they can really get. which means a line by line assessment of how much equity trump has in his properties. trump tower, trump doesn't own much of trump power. it is composed of condominiums owned by other people. he has his own condo and

controls some of the retail space on the first floor, but that property alone probably is very unlikely to be able to settle the judgment with the state ag. so she moves onto a property like 40 wall street. and on down the list. and in each case, they will make an assessment of the market value of the property and how much equity trump has in it. and for him it is ground hog day. very different circumstances. very 1990s when he went personally bankrupt. i don't think he is in a spot now where he is going to go bankrupt. but he owed the banks a lot of money and he essentially had to engage in selling off or turning over most of what he had at the time. and he is revisiting that kind of public embarrassment again decades later largely of his own doing. >> a mentor of mine once said history is unbroken continuity and it seems like that saying

applies right here. you know, barb, we read some of the new york attorney general james' argument that she filed today. and i'm wondering, what does it mean? because there was a lot of legalese. she said that trump and other defendants if they were unable to post bond, they should have quote consented to have their real estate interests held by the supreme court to satisfy the judgment. can you break this down for us? >> yeah, what she means there is that one of the things that donald trump has as an option is to let the court take an interest in some of his real property. sometimes courts can appoint a receiver so that the property doesn't have to be sold or liquidated but an interest goes into the possession of the court. holding it sort of in escrow, holding the property there. so that is an option here. she can or the court can do that. but the idea that donald trump can just get away with it and do pennies on the dollar or 100

million-dollars instead of the $400 million here, it is absurd. so i think what she is suggesting here is that there are some options to put attachments on his properties. >> molly, donald trump has really spent his entire public life bragging about his wealth and his power. frankly, a lot of that helped him get to the white house. now, donald trump is scrambling to get this bond together. what is your take on his position right now? >> well, it's interesting to watch people make excuses for him. his supporters. he is supposedly a billionaire, but he can't support a bond for half a billion dollars. right? so, it means that he is obviously not. and there are so many times when we see him talking in depositions. and interviews about how much cash he has. right? you see him say we have so much

cash, we have so much cash. if they had so much cash, they would be able to get the bond. it does unravel the myth of trump in a very definitive way. i think a lot of trump supporters are far enough in this trump information vortex where he believes what they tell him and what non-partisan evidence would dictate and i think in that sense trump probably has the hold on them. >> you know, tim, you wrote that trump's financial challenges make him a national security threat and i found that a very interesting point. if donald trump were not running for president but being appointed as a cabinet secretary. his financial situation would make him ineligible to serve because it would be a flag. i want to play for you what his

lawyer said. >> is there any effort on the part of your team to secure this money through another country, saudi arabia or russia as joy seems to think? >> well, there's rules and regulations that are public. i can't speak about strategy. that requires certain things and we have to follow those rules. >> tim, what do you make of that response? >> she didn't say no, did she? so it is a nonresponse response. and donald trump was a national security threat during his first term. it explains. so, this is not a new issue and it has always been hanging over the administration. as to what was motivating

policy. was he just signs himself up to line his wall. the difference between now and trump's first tour through the white house, he is in a much different financial strait now. if he was an easy mark for foreign entities getting a financial hook into the oval office, and that was true back in 2016 and it is more true now. and if trump gets bailed out of his current mass by a foreign entity of any sort, that should be publicly disclosed and it should be scrutinized and voters should look at that and understand it for what it is. that a presidential candidate is possibly being coopted for

money. >> molly, what say you? >> i mean look, i think if he takes money for the saudis, it will be very tough for him to run for president. he will do it because he is trump. and he will never say this is not appropriate. but i think for biden, he will be able to run on that and it will be a huge advantage for him. i think that is some of why they are being cautious about doing it. i am surprised you see on television a lot of trump people sort of trump friendly. there are enough republican billionaires that should give him the money which i think is pretty unusual to watch these trump pun danes make the case for donald trump. it is interesting to watch. the law should be the law for everyone.

this is what it is. he always seems to be able to skirt what he is supposed to do. but this is the fine and he should have to pay it. >> this is the fine. so barb, you get the last word on this. is taking money from a foreign entity legal in this respect and is it only questionable because he is a candidate for president, and secondly, what happens if donald trump can't get this bond? what happens on monday? >> yeah. so, if he wants to just take out a loan from some foreign entity, there is nothing that precludes him from doing that. it is illegal for a political candidate to take a campaign donation that is from a foreign source. so it could not be framed as that. if it were simply a loan that he was using so that he could pay this appeal bond, that is something he is permitted to do. but as tim and molly said, so

incredibly dangerous for a candidate for political office when somebody gets a security clearance in government, one of the questions they are asked is whether they have any foreign ties or anyone has leverage over them for anything for which they could be blackmailed. if you owe a debt to a foreign country, and you can't make good on that debt, they will have leverage over you and be compromised. what happens on monday? i think that one of the things that is an option here for the judge is to take a security interest in some real estate property of donald trump to make good on the bond. but he can't just walk away from it. he can't say i will put up some smaller amount. the reason we have appeal bonds is to discourage people from taking a frivolous claim and delaying the payment of a debt that has been judged something they owe. there is no constitutional right to an appeal. there is no due process right to an appeal. appeals are granted under the law in certain instances but one of the conditions in the

state of new york is you pay this appeal bond in escrow so if you lose, the money is there and can be handed over to the party that prevailed in the case. unless they come up with some deal for his real property, he will have to forfeit his ability to appeal in this case. >> molly, i actually want to give you the last, last word. because i really feel like your latest piece that looks at donald trump's vision for america and whether the media apparatus really understands what he is doing when it comes to the threat to democracy is a very important point tied to all of this. what is your biggest fear? >> i mean, the big fear is that he normalizes autocracy and he wins and becomes a dictator or he sets the stage for a republican party that no longer believes in democratic norms. and elevates someone who is even smarter and better

organized and not as self- destructive. and the next time we have a sort of even more, you know, autocrat and that's the big worry a lot of us have. >> a chilling place to end. molly, tim, barb, thank you all very much. when we come back, texas wants the power to arrest and deport people coming to the southern border. the white house says only the feds can do that. the showdown over a controversial immigration law. and later, are you in the office? are you hybrid? fully remote? our spotlight conversation about the future of work. the 11th hour just getting underway on a wednesday night. .

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federal appeals court has put the law back on court only hours after the supreme court allowed it to take effect. my colleague morgan chesky has more from the texas border. >> reporter: tonight, a controversial immigration law still on hold. 24 hours after the supreme court held the green light for it to begin. holding a hearing over the texas law known as sb4 which allows state and local authorities to arrest migrants suspected of crossing the

southern border illegally. judges appearing skeptical of the law. >> this is the first time that the state has claimed that the right to remove illegal aliens. >> reporter: governor abbott standing by the wall. texas has placed razor wire and buoys. moves challenged in court by the biden administration. so far in 2024, most illegal crossings are in arizona and california. zapata county sheriff ramundo is in favor of the new law. >> i do support it. what we are targeting is the violence, the cartel. people that want violent

offenders. >> reporter: and in eagle pass. the sheriff has reservations. >> on its face, are you in favor of sb4? >> not until i get more information how it will work. >> and do you know when that will be? >> i don't. >> reporter: the sheriff concerned over where arrested migrants would go. his detention center already at capacity. >> we are here looking to see what happens. it is more like politics between the state and the federal government. that's the way i see it. >> and where does that put you? >> in the middle. like they are not concerned about us. it is concern about them. for more on this i want to bring in msnbc analyst julian castro. he is the former mayor of san antonio, texas five years. secretary castro, thank you very much for being with us tonight. what do you make of all of this? and what have you been hearing

from people in texas? >> it's good to be with you. the maverick county sheriff said it very well. more than anything else, this is about politics. this is about greg abbott's politics whether it is busing migrants to chicago or washington dc or other cities or doing this. creating a show me your papers law. he is using migrants as a political steppingstone because he thinks he will be trump's vice president. in the meantime, it is creating a lot of anxiety. not only among migrants and folks here seeking asylum. including people who are seeking asylum the legal way. it is also creating anxiety among the latino community in texas. latinos make up 40% of texas now. that's a lot of people in the state who could be under reasonable suspicion based on how they look for being stopped

because some law enforcement officer thinks they might be here illegally. this type of law makes no sense. it is about politics and i'm glad that the fifth circuit at least right now, temporarily hasn't joined it. >> i want to break down the law you are talking about. this bill would not only allow state and local police officers to arrest people suspected of being here illegally, right? but it would also allow the deportation of migrants to mexico regardless of the country that the person is from. now, president lopez of mexico said they are not going to accept the return of any folks to its territory from texas. there are so many things here. right? mexico is one of our closest and most valued economic partners. what we are describing in this bill that this law would be sounds very, very eeriely like profiling to me. do you believe that governor

abbott has thought through the civil rights implications as well as the foreign policy of this law? >> i don't. and frankly, i don't think he cares. what he wants is the appearance of acting as tough as he can be. but the fact is this does involve mexico and we are not going to take anybody you put back on our doorstep. and, even in court, lawyers for texas have had a problem describing how the law is going to work. they are not going to get cooperation from the federal government necessarily or from the mexican government. and there are a whole bunch of people that might get caught up in this that are not even from mexico. so this is a law that makes no sense. it's a terrific example of why

the supreme court has said hey, states, it's not your job to be the enforcer of immigration laws. that's the federal government's job and the country benefits from having one enforcement mechanism and it is not divided among the states. my hope is the supreme court will do that again. sb1070, that should have happened if they followed precedent. but what changed in those years? what changed is we have a supreme court not far to the right and has not shown much respect for precedent when it comes to hot button right wing issues. the question is could this be the next precedent to drop? the state balance of power,

invites further chaos and crisis. immigration is a buzz word if you will. a lot of republican elected officials in congress like to talk about it. but again, there is a bill on the table that you know elected officials have just not voted for. republicans rejected because donald trump told them to do so. do you agree or what are the solutions here? this can't be it. >> i agree with the justice. she said this would create chaos and potentially 50 different versions of how you enforce immigration law and make the federal government's job in processing people, keeping track of folks and determines who should be here and who shouldn't that much harder. it would create more confusion than order. i think she is right. and the legislation, look, i

disagreed with part of the legislation that was compromised legislation but it had some good things in there. especially more resources for these southern counties whether they are in california or arizona or texas and more judges. beefing up the system so it can handle the number of people claiming asylum and at the same time, we need to make sure that we don't forget about our values. we have to treat people with humanity and compassion. if we can do those things we can deal with what has been a heavier influx of people that goes in cycles. >> i talked to a lot of republican mayors of border towns and they say the same thing you just said. thank you very much for being here. when we come back folks, republicans, they wanted their hearing to be about hunter biden, but democrats had their own star witness.

today's fiery moments on capitol hill when the 11th hour continues. hour continues.

it was a chaotic day in the house of representatives. the republican led house oversight committee led the hearing in their inquiry of president biden. they have produced no hard evidence of presidential wrong doing by biden and that was underscored by democrats key

witness. ex-giuliani associate lev parnas. >> the american people have been lied to but donald trump, rudy giuliani and various cohorts of individuals in government and media positions. they created falsehoods to serve their own interest. i found precisely zero evidence of the biden's corruption in ukraine. no credible sources provided proof of criminal activity. the only information pushed has come from one source and one source only. russia and russian agents. the impeachment proceedings spread false information from the kremlin. joining us now. his book, why we did it. is out now. tim, i love the book. okay. republicans, tim, they seem to

have no evidence. but here we are. just how much longer can this go on? >> thank you simone. i mean, i think it can go on until november. because they haven't had any evidence since day one have they? you know, this thing has been obvious in the jump. i was writing about this back in 2020 before joe biden was even the president. anyone that lived through this, this is not ancient history. going back to the old testament herement all this happened in the late 2010s . and you saw that joe biden was demanding that the ukrainians stop, that they prosecute corruption. that is what joe biden was doing. everybody that was involved when he was vice president. everyone that was involved said so. so this whole thing has been made up out of nothing for the start. i don't find lev parnas to be that credible. but he is saying things that have been obviously true for anybody that paid attention. and you know, the latest

information we have besides parnas is the guy that may have fabricated some claim that joe biden has $5 million in a bunch of secret bank accounts. this guy is a russian intelligence asset and he has been getting money from trump business partners and this whole thing is a total sham and it is embarrassment. and frankly, the republicans are so embarrassing that a lot of the news media has given them a pass on this. when it has been members of our congress spreading disinformation and smearing this president and his family three years now. >> the former director of the cia said on our air a number of times that at this point, republican members of congress are literally spreading russian propaganda. it is insane to say the least. but that's what i thought of the hearing today. juanita, what did you think of this hearing? and, doesn't congress have actual work to go?

they apparently do have deal for government funding. >> imagine delivering something the american people want instead of this. as tim pointed out, no evidence, it's a complete sham. and republicans have nothing to show for themselves going into the 2024 election cycle. because remember, why they are doing this though. this is all to appease an audience of one and donald trump. that is their motivation here. they are trying to weaponnize their positions in congress. to do that. but like you said, simone, democrats are embarrassing them in the process. right? like, with the testimony, i agree he is not the most credible witness. but by having him go out there and state these facts, name names like he did, makes it explicitly clear. i feel like the moment that truly captured the chaos of this hearing today was the hot mic moment when i don't know who it was. they said this is jurassic park. we have never seen anything like this before. because that is entirely the mess that republicans are making and they are making the case for why the public should

not hand them the keys to congress again after 2024. >> literally the people's house of representatives. okay, juanita, new topic. yesterday donald trump suggested he would be open to supporting a 15-week national ail abortion ban with exceptions. but then last week he was concerned picking someone for vice president with too staunch. he talks about a national abortion ban, he means it. when he talks about 15 weeks when pregnant people are just realizing they are pregnant, he means it. right? and i feel like this is coming from the mouth of someone who has beaten his chest repeatedly about single handedly overturning roe v. wade. this is not a drill. and i appreciate that democrats have been really laying all of the harms that we are seeing as a result of the abortion ban

across the country since roe was overturned at trump and republican's feet. this is something that we know is a mobilizing issue. but it has very real daily harms or pregnant people across the country. people that often time want their pregnancies. abortion is the only viable treatment for them to save their own lives. and so, when trump says things like this, it can't be dismissed. it need to have more than just having his words replayed but emphasizing the real harm that this causes for pregnant people across the country day in and day out. it has to be critical in 2024. >> tim, on a scale of one to ten, how big of a problem is the issue of abortion for not just donald trump, but also republicans on the ballot right now? >> i mean, probably a nine? eight-and-a-half? it is a big problem. it is one of two reasons why they didn't have the red wave in the midterms. it was basedly the far right

election denying candidates the republicans put up. and threats of abortion. i think that a lot of evidence for this by the way is look at some of the places where republicans did well in the midterms. california, new york, what is the reason for that? well i think a lot of voters in california around new york. that is a different story in 2024. now when a national abortion ban is on the ballot, everybody in every district will have to take it seriously. especially if the democrats do their job campaigning so i think it is a very big problem and under the hood of incoherence of donald trump on this issue, donald trump knows it's a problem. that is why he is kind of lashing about for what is some compromise that might get him out of this jam. and i don't think there is any getting him out of this jam. >> well, we will leave it there. tim, juanita, thank you both very much. when we come back, folks,

the question is are new way of working. is it really working out? our favorite lady steph is on the other side of the break with the spotlight conversation when the 11th hour continues. w pick an order print everything you need slap the label on ito the box and it's ready to go our cost for shipping, were cut in half just like that go to shipstation/tv and get 2 months free

the way we work seem to be forever changed. many companies employ full time remote workers are use more of a hybrid model where employees

work from home two or three days a week. tonight we are diving deep. nicholas bloom joins us. economics professor at stanford who studied work at home policies for decades. you have been studying work for home from years and years. it is like all your work is finally playing out. give us your case why it is such a great idea. >> i had about six hours of teaching which i think is very

much in person. they are working from home monday through friday. >> why does it work so well? for placing full remote? full remote, there are so challenges. it is saving office costs.

>> in the start of this epidemic of loneliness. do you see remote work being connected to that? i think in theory people think this is great. more efficient. but it only adds to the fact that people are talking to you about your job function, but not about your life. >> that's right. and the fact is most people happen in their lives have a best friend at work. there is no relationships like that. that's a big problem for people who came out of college during the coronavirus pandemic and they don't know normal workplace activity so they can't get back to these relationships. loneliness is funny. it sneaks up on you. people are sometimes lonelier than they understand and they will feel a real sense of emptiness in their lives and it will hurt their home relationships buzz they don't have outside relationships and they don't know what the problem is. they will start to sleep poorly. and that will start to affect their work as well. the other thing worth keeping in mind, the people fully remote, or almost fully remote,

who don't go to the office very much, they don't do much in their careers. they get passed over in promotions. this is nicholas' area. >> like an out of sight out of mind. promotion time. if people don't see their workers they don't think to elevate them? >> yeah. and there is less communication and the productivity is not as good. for the people who are not quite there. because, people will elect to not be there for a reason. not to cast dispersions. but what i want is a lifestyle job. that says something about you. and your employers will notice that. >> two hours ago, surveyed.

they said we only want to go in four days a week. we want to develop. what you do see is as folks get into their 30s and 40s , they have young kids, they have other things in life. they have child care. someone is actually saying they are helping look after their grandmother. other priorities come into play. so there is a natural lifestyle in your 20s . my oldest kids, they are both early 20s . it's a good idea probably to go into work four days a week. in your 30s and 40s , two to three days a week or fully remote. there is a mix of things. you can see people. >> i hear it is not a full return to work. it is a hybrid. what is your take on now what

has happened in cities and communities across the country where we now have these massive empty office buildings, right? all the local lunch places have gone out of business. the dry cleaners, it is not individual workers responsibility to solve this commercial real estate crisis. but how do you see this playing out? >> to be clear, money is still being spent. the economy is doing very well. it is just it is being spent in different places. so yes. the center of cities like san francisco. less new york actually, but san jose, seattle. some of the big west coast, some east coast cities are struggling. but the suburbs are absolutely booming. so people are working from home, you know. it is a friday. i don't get the sandwich at lunch in the city center but i go to my local. there is an adjustment. change is always hard. and the hardest thing really is the big city skyscrapers downtown. interestingly, the old ones,

the ones built before 1930 typically tend to be tall and skinny. because that was before electricity was around and so you had to build buildings you could see daylight. those things convert pretty easily to residential because you have a lot of windows and they make apartments. the real problem is buildings built in the 60s and the 70s . and nobody is really sure what is going to happen. some of these places will lie empty for a while. eventually they will be scrapped and reconverted. that is the biggest problem. a lot of these office buildings that are now empty or have built in city centers. >> how do you think that will play out? in places like new york where we have so many people back in the office. when you go to dc where many people work for the government are still remote, the city feels kind of hollowed out. >> it is sort of a double whammy for a lot of these cities. many of them are very poorly managed so you notice that when we have been, these policies that have actually meant city

centers have become less and less livable. at the same time that people are not going there to work. you will see the effects of that. the more that it is harder to go there, the less people are actually going to go there when they have the choice of not actually going to work. and so that is really hurting places like downtown san francisco where you can get office space for fraction of what you were able to get it for. frankly, these downtown areas might be very different ten years from now. >> before we go, do you see an age, a demographic disconnect where some of the oldest people in the work force, maybe some people in management can't get their head around work from home. there is an okay, there's younger people who have known remote work who see no value in coming back to the office. do you see a generational disconnect? >> the funny thing is yes. the way it works out is a lot of folks in their 20s want to come in four days a week.

and one of the big reasons is they want to get mentored. they say i want to learn and push my career on. but somebody has to do that mentoring in. that means 30, 40-year-olds when i go play pickle ball, golf. ly work from home two or three days a week. and i have talked to a bunch of ceos who say this is really hard. so what they say. they really need to get the middle managers in. not every day, but three days a week so they are there to train the folks below them. >> last word to you arthur? >> there is a huge part of america for whom this is a completely irrelevant conversation. i have a son who is a manager at a construction firm and he is walking around construction sites all day long. the idea of working from home means literally nothing to him. i have another son who is a high school math teacher. >> he definitely has to come in. >> he has to come in. as long as the schools are in

session, he has to come in. what is this weird conversation we are having? for them, it is how they live their lives. and what they would have done ten years ago. >> thank you all so much. we will have to have this conversation again in a year. and see what the world is looking like. i appreciate you joining us for the spotlight conversation. >> thanks. >> okay, thank you. and, folks, steph will be back, yes, in the office, tomorrow. and on that note, i wish you a very good night. you can see me and my cohost alicia menendez and michael still every saturday and sunday on the weekend. grab your coffee and join us at 8:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. from all of our colleagues across the network of nbc news, thank you very much for staying up late and i'll see you this weekend. see you this weekend.

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