the heritage report 2025 included same-sex relationships. this is not isolated. it won't focus exclusively on abortion or report of right. it is expensive. the other thing that came out of the heritage report that's a sign of them going too far as doug jones mentioned is they literally want to delete the language from the books. i'm talking about deleting abortion from federal regulation. deleting the phrase reproductive rights. di, all of it. when people frame it as this is not isolated to abortion. they're coming for ivf, contraception, anything privacy related with a roadmap given by supreme court justices alito and thomas, then that's got to resonate. >> watched the handmaid's tale. that's what they want to do. you know how it's not about babies? they are trying to kill headstart which is for the babies. thank you. thank you.

all and starts now. tonight on all and -- >> what are your strengths and weaknesses? do you believe the 2020 election was stolen? >> a new litmus test for the rnc as an election losing election denier finally gives up the name. >> will the legitimate governor is and you're looking at her. >> why carrie lake admitted to defamation lead republican state official who brought the lawsuit read >> i will be your worst freaking nightmare. eight years. >> the incredible upset victory for alabama. >> i think it is a vik to read tonight for women, for families, for alabama in general. >> just when you thought he was running too much on food -- >> i want to make great deals. that's what it is. for the people. i want to make a deal for you. >> a special report on donald trump's plan for tariffs and what it means for you.

>> it will result in higher prices for american families. by some estimates, the equivalent of $2000 per family according to a economists. >> all and starts right now. >> good evening. from new york, i'm chris hayes. the republican national committee firmly in the hands of donald trump and his family. the party is under the stewardship of among others the ex-president daughter-in-law whose latest single anything is possible drops this friday. in addition to her burgeoning music career, she is hard at work reshaping the republican party into an organization based first and foremost around her father-in-law and his ongoing lies about the 2020 election which he lost. as the wall street post reports, those seeking employment of the republican national committee after a donald trump backed purge of the committee this month have been asked in job interviews if they believe the 2020 election was stolen. according to people familiar with the interviews, make the false claim a litmus test of sorts for hiring.

they confirmed today that the rnc is all in on wishing election fraud on ants heading into this next election. >> is the position of the rnc in 2024 the 2020 election was unfairly decided or that it was::00 >> i think we are past that. it's in the past. we learned a lot. we took a lot of notes. we have 23 states with 78 lawsuits in these states to ensure that it's harder to cheat and easier to vote. >> we had sort of the inverse of this debate this week at our litmus test is the opposite of the rnc. out of what we used to call a reality-based community, one will be acknowledged that basic fact that joe biden won the 2020 election by 7 million votes. the republican national committee apparently does not live in reality and said choosing to reseed into a fantasy world where the election was: on donald trump. here is the thing that is the weirdest out of this whole

thing. donald trump is like a 50/50 coin flip to win the next election. he is leading or tied in just about every poll. he has a shot of outright winning the election in november but it is a revealing area the mag movement is not interested in winning and a democratic sense. it looks to own the world based on the way they've undertaken the rnc and the campaign. they would actually rather essentially steal the election or finish the project of ending democracy entirely. for in fair elections is an achievable and as their intended goal. this cultish devotion to the lie, the persistent, enduring lie about what predilection fraud in 2020 is one of their ways of accomplishing that. logistically taken, the problem is that every single rational good faith factor can see the election was not on her at every time the big lies marched into and dictation where facts and reality matter, it gets

laughed out of the room. we saw this happen at least three different times just today. first just moments ago, a california judge recommended that the man you see they are, to plotter john eastman, should lose his license to practice law. he was one of the masterminds behind the failed plot to get congress to reject the election. his unwillingness to regard any ethical lapses, demonstrating an apparent lack of ability to accept responsibility. poses a significant risk that he may engage in further unethical conduct, compounding the threat to the public. meanwhile, one of his fellow coup plotters, who trump tried to install as attorney general in the waning days of the administration, had a disciplinary hearing before the d.c. bar association. he was a huge proponent of the

big lie. trump wanted to put him in charge of the waning days of his presidency so clark could weapon is the authority of the department of justice and send letters to everyone to say the election is rigged and no one needs to certified so they could overturn the results. he has even been criminally charged in the state of georgia for his role in the plot. the bar association is looking at whether or not he should have his law license revoked over it. during the hearing this morning, acting trump attorney general jeffrey rosen, a trump republican can to dude. the guy that clark wanted to replace, explained exactly how he and another top just as department official -- again, trump appointee, republican, responded to the ridiculous claims of fraud. >> had a discussion where mr. donahue was very emphatic that the department has not found any indicators of widespread or systemic fraud that would affect the election outcome. and mr. clark said that he was

questioning whether the department had done enough. and that he had read things on the internet. and mr. donahue, i think, had a higher degree of granularity. if you haven't been involved in this, this is not your area of risk on stability. >> i've read things on the internet. sort of sums up the whole thing. let's overturn 200 years of american democracy because i read stuff on the internet. before clark took the witness stand, his lawyer tried to strike a deal the board where he would receive questions ahead of time to do that his client could avoid repeatedly invoking his fifth amendment rights. he said he wanted to do so in order to avoid a very specific out come. >> there may be an elegant solution that takes into account the reasoning of the

chair. the concerns to make a record while avoiding us all being on msnbc for no good reason. >> suffice it to say, the ploy didn't work. >> so i will take the fifth on that. i will invoke the fifth. i will invoke the executive privilege, law enforcement privilege, delivered process privilege and attorney client privilege. the fifth amendment privilege at this time. the fifth amendment privilege at this time. the fifth amendment privilege at this time. the fifth amendment at this time. the fifth amendment at this time. >> that's how jeff clarke ran up against the real world today. all the stuff you read on the internet has to actually come in to a deliberative proceeding with this stuff is adjudicated and that's what it is. that's the second one today. the third -- this brings us to arizona senate candidate carrie lake.

she previously ran for governor in 2022 where she emerged as one of the fiercest defenders of the coup as well as general antagonist to the press who tried to correct her lies. >> we had a fraudulent election. a corrupt election and we have an illegitimate president in the white house. >>.81 million votes. okay. already. i am going to not only be governor of arizona for four years, i'm going to do two terms. i'm going to be your worst freaking nightmare for eight years and we will reform the media, as well. we are going to make you guys into journalists. get ready. it's going to be a fun eight years and i can't wait >> it is going to be fun. she lost. i guess to her perverse credit, she fully committed to the bit, going around to any french outlet that would take her and them in without any evidence at all that the 2020 two midterm election that she lost was:, as

well. >> we know that we won and we know that we showed up in droves. we know that they intentionally sabotaged election day, so we will fight to get the rightful duly elected governor, myself, and to office. >> we won our election. i know that my opponent who is sitting in the governor's office is a fraud and we are fighting that the courts. i really understand what president trump is up against. they did the same thing to him in 2020. >> we cannot have the election stand. the judge should declare me the right winner. and the right winner. we should move on and reclaim our government. our state government has been hijacked and stolen. by a bunch of people who know the election was fraudulent. >> people already know who the legitimate governor is and you are looking at her chemist. >> she lost the election. she did win the best web cam and all of politics competition. donald trump packed an entire slate of election

deniers in 2020 two. the thing that really makes her stand out is that she appeared to be the only one who pulled a big lie of her own. and in distant she was the real winner actually. she did this so often that she got herself sued by elections officials in arizona. republicans even richer, maricopa county recorder who oversaw the loss, again a republican, took her to court over repeater -- her repeated false claims that richard election against her. he said the defamation engine last year and she's been calling on the case until now. she just filed a motion for default judgment which means she is not contesting her liability. because what we have seen time and time and time again when it comes to election fraud, you cannot defend the indefensible. joined with a man who is suing carrie lake, stephen richard, maricopa county recorder along with his lawyer and staff attorney that protects democracy. let me start with you.

tell me what prompted you to take the somewhat extraordinary step of filing this lawsuit in the aftermath of that 22 election. >> yeah. it would not stop and simply put, that's why we felt we had to do this. we waited until she filed those claims with the court. she lost at the superior court and she lost at the court of appeals and she lost at the arizona supreme court. then she filed another lawsuit. i was hoping she would only get a new job but she kept talking about it. she made it the centerpiece of all of her fundraising appeals and her political prominence and even the book deal. i figured she's not getting a new job. i am the job. defaming my good name to her millions of followers as she is so proud to proclaim, was her profession at that point. so this is the first and hopefully the last time i've ever sued anyone in an individual capacity. i talked to the team at protect democracy. that we have a strong case and

indeed we do. >> let me ask you legally, the significance of today. the filing that she is basically not going to contest the defamation. she wants to fight on the grounds of damages but that means basically you caught me. i can't go into court and say what i was saying was true about missed her richard. >> that's exactly right. this is an unequivocal admission by miss lake that she has no evidence whatsoever to support her claims that he engaged in misconduct in the 2022 election. of ours, we all knew she had no evidence all along. she has repeatedly been stating that she's looking forward to showing receipts and yesterday, she told herself orders biden's dad, she has no evidence. she is waving the white flag. so now we are moving forward not on liability, but rather we are going to be moving ahead to

do term and not whether she has to pay damages for the hunches don't stephen, but how much she's going to have to pay for the harm. >> i want to talk to you about that aspect of it. i want to stress this, you are a republican official in maricopa county, right? and you were targeted by miss lake and some of the baroque conspiracy theories she was weaving. from my perspective, this is someone who lied about the 2020 election. it and obvious she was lying about the 2022 election. i also know people on the wrong side of the sorts of lies can have their lives upended, their careers. what has it meant to be the target of these lies? >> it does not take much imagination to foresee the possibility that of your millions of followers, when you tell them that this man, even

richard, has committed the most heinous crimes against our democracy, it does not take much imagination that one of your followers, two of your followers might do something very extreme based off of that. so in recent months, we've had two people arrested for threats to me. i get on a daily basis messages about wire should be in gitmo, why you should be in jail. this needs to stop. that's why we filed this lawsuit. jared mentioned that this is coming from somebody who said she has all the evidence and is going to fight to the bitter end. she does put up the white flag. she doesn't have any evidence. while she is lying about me, she is lying to arizonans. some arizonans who have gone to jail. some who have given her campaign money. it will lie. that's now entered in court. >> her team on tuesday filed a default judgment motion that indicated she would not challenge cup ability. they say that richard should turn over relevant medical and psychiatric records to show his

health was negatively affect did. there will be some adjudicative process here. but it will not be on the basic facts here which she was so eager to contest. she's completely waved the white flag. this will all be on the damages portion of this. >> that's exactly right. miss lake has conceded that she has no evidence with the lever to defend herself. again, we have known that all along but she has been telling her supporters that she's got the receipts. we've known that she does not. so now that she has surrendered, the case will move forward purely on the question of how much she is going to have to compensate stephen for the immense harm that she has caused him. >> stephen, just using that for a second, your sort of radon is falling of american politics. particularly maricopa county and arizona. we have seen republican members of the officials in your party

on both sides of it, right? it does not really have to do with ideology. i don't know what your views are intact rates, abortion, or 1 million different ideological questions. it's really just on the line of this basic fidelity to the truth and the fact. and how -- what has this done to politics in your state? >> tax rates should be as low as possible. i want to make sure we are there on that. that's how i feel about tax rates. >> i figured as much. >> but 2+2 = 4. and that's a truth. that always has been a truth and will be the truth. unfortunately, it's become something of a litmus test in some quarters. it's not entirely dispositive. i will buck the trend in the election but it unfortunately factored in significantly. i will say to the ultimate detriment of republican candidates, many of those candidates who won the primary based off of the big lie. that did not carry over to the

median arizona voter. it is a losing strategy. it lost in '23, '22, '21, they can and 20. more than that, it's immoral. people know better. leaders need to stop doing this any legitimacy. >> stephen richard, jared davidson, a pleasure to have you both on. >> thank you. coming up, a truly shocking campaign promise that has somehow gone under the radar. donald trump takes the rare step of campaigning on higher prices. that's next. that's next. jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? her credit's golden. hello new apartment. three jens getting ahead with chase. solutions that grow with you. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours.

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if there is one thing that truly unites all-america, it's that everyone hates paying more for stuff and that's why when inflation since the price of everyday goods soaring in the wake of the pandemic, you side reflected in poll after poll after poll. people's view of the economy plummeted. so did their approval of the president. in fact, this happened basically across the western world. it was everyone's first taste

of sharp inflation and a generation reading and guess what? people really hated it which is of course completely understandable because it really, really sucks. in 2020, your average family of four. about $927 a month for groceries. at the height of inflation in 2022, the average was $1307 a month. that's $400 more per month. that has started to come down actually in real terms. the average at the end of last year was around 1200 $81. again, still up from 2020. the experience of paying more and more and feeling prices are out of control, feeling squeezed translates to disaffection. not -- that disaffection is probably the single biggest advantage you can have as the challenger to an incumbent president operating in a world in which prices have gone up. and yet the republican challenger to president biden is not running on lowering prices. he's actually running on

jacking up prices on a huge amount of the goods we use every day. i know it sounds like i'm making this up, but genuinely, and i want to be clear here, his core economic policy proposal right now is an across- the-board consumer sales tax for every single good imported into the united states. he may call it a terrorist but it will just be passed along to consumers and is sales tax on every single good that's imported. again, you don't need to take my word for it. listen to donald trump himself. >> number one, i think we should have a ring around the collar as they say. i think when companies come in and they dump their product in the united states, they should pay automatically. let's say a 10% tax. >>, big believer in tariffs. i fully believe in them economically. when you're being taken advantage of by other countries. i would say that china, if you're building a plant on our border, building cars in mexico and selling them in the united

states, adding a 50% tariff on all those cars. >> you use tariffs and tensions against china. >> i did and i did very well with it. we took an hundred millions of dollars to the taxes and terrace. we have to do it. >> okay. if you are a single issue inflation, only one antedate once you put a 10% tax that will be passed along to consumers as a sales tax on every single good that is in order. and here's the thing. this isn't a hypothetical. trump did a miniature version of this the last time he was president when he put tariffs on different chinese goods. here's how that worked out according to analysis by the new york red. the average import tariff rate more than doubled in 2018 alone and tangibly led to higher domestic consumer prices. take the first tariffs on washing machines and steel. they found the consumer prices for washing machines which were going down steadily since the 12, almost immediately jumped back up after trump's tariffs.

in fact, the new york times found that the washers pacific tariffs raise costs for importers like lg and simpson. still import tariffs raise costs for domestic manufacturers, pushing prices up for consumers. now he wants to do it again, but bigger. you can argue this is going to in the long run help american manufacturing. there's some argument on the other side of it and in the short term, what's going to happen is the prices are going to go up. the democratic center for american progress found that trump's proposed tariffs would cost a typical households an extra $1500 per year. here is what that might look like. trump is proposing a 10% tariff rate if it is passed on to consumers which is generally how that works, things will cost more. we don't know exactly how much everything would cost. just add 10% on the back of the napkin. here's the cost of living under the trump tax. start with groceries, which has been the site of a lot of angst. a dozen eggs cost about three

dollars. once you apply the trump tax, that is up to $3.30 with the u.s. importing over 4 million eggs a year, but cost consumers over $1.2 million. if you like oranges, they currently go for about $1.53 per pound. with the trump tax that would be $1.68 per pound which would cost american consumers almost $71 million for the nearly half 1 billion pounds of the import. bananas. we don't really grow them in the u.s., do we? they average about $.63 per pound and going up to $.69 per pound with the trump tax. thanks to the u.s. importing more than 10 alien pounds per year, that could cost americans at $609 million and that's a $609 million tax on american consumers. then there's tomatoes. they go for about $2.13 per pound. apply the 10% from tax. they would be $2.34 per pound, potentially costing americans $3.5 million thanks to the six point 8 million pounds we import per year. if you are spending $1200 on

groceries, add another $120 to the bill. that's more than the peak of inflation in 2022 which topped off at 9%. this is 10%. and it's not just groceries. how about the refrigerator? you need to keep the groceries fresh. the average cost of a new fridge is about $1300. with the trump tax, that could go up to $1430, costing americans $1.95 billion for the 15 million refrigerators that we import. again, $1.95 billion of new taxes. what about the car that you need to drive to the grocery store? on average, the new car cost about $48,808 today. with trump tax at cost $53,684 with americans potentially taking a $66.3 billion hit across the board on the 13 million cars we import. that's not including the 50% tariff which would make it another $25,000.

even the smart phone in your pocket cost on average about $940 right now. with trump tax, it can go up to $1034 with americans potentially paying an extra $13.2 billion for the nearly 141 million smart phones that we import per year. everyone hates when you have to pay more for things. inflation is one of the biggest liabilities for a sitting president. yet here is donald trump in the year of our lord 2024, running against resident biden, promising to make things more expensive for every american. >> with a streamlined shipping network. and new, high-speed processing and delivery centers.

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we want to play you and add from a demo rat running in a special election for state legislature in alabama and take a look. >> two decades ago, i faced the artist decision of my life. my baby had an underdeveloped brain. a hard, lungs, kidneys, you know, complete organ devastation and the baby would not survive. the dock is all advised that i terminate the pregnancy. all three doctors said this is absolutely what you need to do. your health is at risk, because these babies often don't even survive to birth. and can die in utero. but this is not just my story. this is our story. and that the story of millions of women to live in places where extremist's are devising

new, cool ways to further erode our most basic freedoms. these men do not understand or care about women's health. but i do. and that's why i'm running for alabama state house. >> that was marilyn lance. she ran the ad in the wake of this date supreme or decision where scrutiny of control of women's autonomy in alabama and around the country. i've been covering politics and two years. i never imagined any political consultant telling a candidate to run for office on abortion rights talking about her own abortion in alabama. that's what she did richard not only won the special election but absolutely romped to victory with about a 25 point margin. she lost by about seven point two years ago in the district that joe biden lost and what happened in alabama is just the latest in a remarkable post

jobs string of special election victories for democrats across the country that shows no sign of waning and may possibly be a strength. chief alabama political reporter has been covering this and he joins me now. bill, great to have you one. i want to talk about the context of the republican incumbent who had to quit that open this up for a special election. >> our reporter here discovered when he ran for district 10. it took us about a year of reporting relentlessly on that subject before we could get anyone to listen to the fact that this guy cheated in an election in alabama. a place of love to talk about voter treating from democrats. >> so the republican incumbent had lied about his address.

where he lived. he was caught. he ended up pleading guilty and resigning, correct text >> yeah. he pled guilty to voter fraud. and he stepped down from office. opened up the district for marilyn lance to win in a landslide. >> so she really won in a landslide. it's a special election in a district in alabama that's probably much more centrist than a lot of other parts of alabama. words of huntsville. very high portions of people with college and advanced degrees. what are the contours of the politics of this issue, particularly after alabama became talk of the nation after that decision? >> again, it's one of those situations where that area, yes, has a highly educated populace. but through the district and 2020 to be a republican

district. remember, this is an area of this date with they have this year after year after year. i think it's a significant win. the right ended with the right message at the right time for the district and >> she ran that add on abortion, but also to show some of the print material, obviously you are mostly doing mailers and that kind of thing. people are not only are a lot that she talks about abortion a lot. she really wanted to center abortion. it feels counterintuitive but it seems to me to say something about where this notion of this date is on this issue. >> i think if you actually pull the people of alabama, which has been done, the people of alabama do not approve of the drew carney and laws that we past year to outlaw abortion, even in cases of assault or

incest. you have an extreme right wing portion of the republican party here that has to kowtow to the base so that they can get reelected. i've talked to those people. many of them think that what they are doing is outrageous, but they want to stay in office, so they are complicit in the lie. >> do you think -- it was interesting to watch from the supreme found in the context of a civil wrongful death suit that a fertilized egg, and embryo, for the purposes of ivf was a life, a child, essentially. and there is tremendous fallout from that. several clinics immediately closed. the republican legislature in both houses rushed through a bill signed by governor iv. do you think this had an enduring effect? did that really change the way people are thinking about things in your state?

>> i think it brought to light just how absurd this conversation is in alabama. i mean, alabama has good, smart people, but our politicians don't represent us. they represent a small portion of the maga base who believes in this type of extremism. so yes, it brought it to the forefront so it's right in people's faces and they have to deal with it up was impersonal like they had not before. >> marilyn lance winning by 25 points. tonight, she will be a guest on the 10:00 p.m. show tonight on the last word you can see her there. bill, thank you very much. >> think you, chris. >> as i said, representative elects marilyn lance will be on the last word at 10:00 p.m. make sure you tune in for that. first why things might be looking up for the biden campaign and what you really need to know about polls ahead of this election next. tion nex.

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have a good one. >> woman: you too. >> tech: schedule today at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ tide is busting laundry's biggest myth... that cold water can't clean. cold water, on those stains? ♪♪ cold water can't clean tough stains? i'd say that myth is busted. turn to cold, with tide. before i get started for this segment, i want to point you to the qr code on the bottom of your screen there. there. i literally cannot do it. there. just to give you time to get your phone out to scan it there has probably never been more national polling than right now. every day, there are new polls. we see people freaking out about that rolling numbers and immediately feeling good about the next poll with better results. amidst all of this it's easy to

lose sight about what exactly these polls are measuring and what exactly is the way to use them? given the constant discourse we get in an election year like this, i thought it would be a good idea to talk to nate cohen on my podcast about ways this happening. his chief analyst in the new york times and an incredibly sharp thinker with great insights into how polling does and does not work. >> people want to know what's going to happen and can't know what's going to happen. the gap between those, they grasp or it. >> if you take the notion seriously, these polls that people wanted to be predictive maybe the fuel that powers decisions that change the result in the end. so anyone who takes this stuff seriously cannot believe that they are predictive but that's exactly it. >> so the point that they are not predictive, they are a snapshot of time. their measurements and they have an error built-in. possible again, possible blinds

lots that we see redundancy. deeply imperfect. that's why i think our elections are so is, by the way. that these minor fuzzy things that have always been around now are you the this i mean, and almost every election, the candidate leading the polls can lose. that was not true in 1984. >> the whole conversation was very illuminating and i feel like it up a lot of misconceptions about poland. i'll bet i refer back to it throughout this election year. listen to the full episode by scanning the code that i could not aim to find my way to wanting to or by searching chris hayes wherever you get your podcasts. speaking of falling, president biden appears to be edging up a bit right now. what that says about the current date of the trump campaign next. campaign next. for life. chase. make more of what's yours.

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over the last two weeks the reelection campaign for president biden has gotten considerably more aggressive, firing on all cylinders, a bunch of paid ads. they've actually gone off the air, they've got social media post, they are producing a lot more content, maybe using these time machine capsules of donald trump four years ago, highlighting some of the more deranged and offensive things he said, like this one that was posted yesterday. >> they're in great shape. i hope that's the case. i hope that we are going to have leftovers so that we can help other people, other countries. >> everybody will be able to get a ventilator? >> look, don't be a cutie pie,

everyone who needs one. >> biden has also been traveling and doing a bunch of campaign events. in fact, considerably more than donald trump has been doing, a point the biden campaign also highlighted in a new post. the effect of this appears to be showing up a little bit in the polling but also the nature of this general election matchup now seems pretty different than it did even just a month ago now that all sides are engaged. deborah gibbs served as white house secretary for president obama, senior strategist for the 2012 obama campaign, jennifer palmieri served as communications director for president obama as well as the 2016 clinton campaign. is now cohost of msnbc's how to win 2024 podcast. jennifer, i'll start with you on a sort of check in here. i think this before and after the state of the union, before and after, the freak out after the wow report, now that both of these individuals are clearly the nominees, it does have a much more aggressive general election vibe these last few weeks. what do you think? >> it so early.

february was not a great month but it was good to kind of deal with the age issue then and then move on. i think people see that he's fine, that the state of the union was as good and as strong as it was, and it's march, so that is kind of an early time to engage and keep the momentum going for eight months, but the biden campaign has got a number of things going for it. one, a lot of money .2, they have a really great story to tell. line in michigan. i followed secretary granholm and governor whitmer around the last couple days on energy investments in michigan. that alone, phenomenal, historic investment and you can feel, talking to voters, it's starting to take hold and of course everything, it's the contrast and every time trump does a campaign event, which isn't often, as you noted, there is endless footage for the biden campaign to use against him. so it's not easy to gauge this so that you can get from now until november, keeping the public engaged, but this is a

situation where the biden campaign has a lot to choose from. >> one of the sort of big decisions about politics in the trump era has always been broadly these two categories of ways to go after trump. one is that he's personally so odious and says offensive things, and he's bigoted, and he's corrupt, and he's all these things, they're all bad. and then there's just the fact that policy that's wise he just supports a lot of bad, normal republican policies like repealing the affordable care act, which he says he wants to do. he's got this cockamamie idea of a 10% tariff on imported good. how do you think about those two categories for the story that the biden campaign is going to tell in this campaign? >> it's a great question, chris, because i think you have to be careful in these races when there's a lot of targets, to shoot individually at every target but not think of what is

the meta-message we are trying to leave with people. i think about this in a way of joe biden and his administration have worked over the past four years to be more on your side versus donald trump, who has really never been on your side and i do think you've got to force this race through that larger lens, through a larger lens so that you don't become again, a series of tactics or that your message is a series of issues. it does have to be something that's larger and attracts people and pulls people in, and tells that story. i think the arc of what joe biden inherited, where he's brought people to this point, some of the things that jen mentioned in terms of what has been able to get done and how that's taking hold of voters is tremendously important, and i think the length of the campaign will help that story and help him tell that and then

we'll also see donald trump as the central character for a long time, and you'll get a sense of and be able to talk about the fact that look, donald trump is in this for one person and it's not you, it's donald trump. >> i want to talk a little bit about the fundraising aspect of that because i think it plays into it, as well. but also, before we get into that, there is no pulling out from fox news, of all places, on abortion. it's really striking polling and they had a really good polling operation over there. and i'll just read it here but basically, should abortion be legal always or most of the time? it's gone from an april 2022, 44%, it's now up to 59%. so used just got this central thing. it's not low salience. you can't run away from it. they are gonna come out. they are going to do a national abortion ban. they think they can message their way out of it but the national abortion ban, to me,

seems like an enormous gift politically to the biden camp. >> and that's something that is breaking through just in the couple days that i've been in michigan, that you hear back from voters. i think gibbs is right about donald trump is in it for himself. one thing i hear from here, from people, they say we gave him a chance, he didn't deliver. biden is delivering and trump is not on the side of women. and i hear this coming back now, but people here, even though the state passed the abortion initiative to protect abortion rights and in 2022, they understand that it is on the ballot when it comes to voting for congressional candidates and when it comes to voting for president, that there could be a national abortion ban, even with a state that just past those protections. it is very -- i'm sorry, it is very top of mind and not just for women. >> on that sort of whose side

is joe biden on and whose side is donald trump on, robert, one thing i think again hasn't quite sunk in yet but i think there is some ground for it and actually is substantively very important is this sort of bribe me sign that donald trump has put on mar-a-lago, which is basically on desperate for cash both personally and politically and i don't have a lot of fixed commitments so the tiktok reversal is sort of the perfect little proof of concept. a big dinner comes and visits mar-a-lago. he doesn't want anything. but the way to which is advantage in 2016, i'm above all the fundraising, i'm not running for money, it's now been reverted. i really think there is some hay to make there. >> yeah, and look, the stories about how the money is not going, that they are raising, not going to help the party, not going to help not just him and the party but all the way down the ballot, senate, house, state legislature, but instead going to pay lawyers. again, it gives you a sense, he's in it for himself and we are now talking bibles, which

is really -- you couldn't make it up if you wanted to. if you did, nobody would believe the script, and i do think the structural advantage of fundraising is really important. we've come to an era when you've got so much soft money and so much dark money into the system, really very few races were decided by money anymore. and this race has a struck drilling financial advantage right now for one candidate, and that's joe biden. >> jennifer palmieri and robert gibbs, always good to talk to you two. thank you very much. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex starts right now. >> we are going to be talking about those bibles coming up and -- >> you know it's the only one, thank you. >> if you thought the king james you had on your bedside table was a donald trump endorsed, you would be