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meeting behind the scenes with far right world leaders in

trump's name. also tonight, tragedy. this conspiracy, that conspiracy, the republican party adores nonsense, and now t weaponizing those bogus beliefs about the bridge collapse in baltimore. and you're going to hear from a state department staffer who resigned this week in protest of president biden's gaza policy as the white house announces it is sending even un more weapons to israel. let's do it. on this show, we talk a lot about how trump, if re-elected, plans to expand his use of the authoritarian playbook here at home. but now we are actually getting a better idea of how the ex- president would try to weaken democracies around the world. enter this guy. richard grenell. a former diplomat who served as acting director of national intelligence under donald trump, and is one of his biggest loyalists. even after he left office,

trump called grenell is ongoing. the washington post reports grenell has been acting as a kind of shadow secretary of state, meeting with far right leaders and movements, pledging trumps support, and, at times, working against the current administration's policies. in january, grenell traveled to guatemala days before the newly elected president was sworn in, and got behind efforts to undermine the transition of power. he claimed he met with 45 business and political leaders during his trip, including a hard-line group that's sued to block the inauguration. grenell also posted a photo of his meeting with former right- wing higuatemalan president, wh the u.s. had accused of, quote, significant corruption. the undercutting of u.s. interests abroad does not end there. grenell has been busy in europe as well. last year, sweden's effort to join nato in the face of a rising threat from vladimir putin was being blocked by turkish president, who had a highly strained relationship with the u.s. at the time. grenell also a vocal needle

critic proposed a meeting between erdogan and trump, according to two people close to the former president. in 2021, for example, in the middle of renewed tensions between the two countries, the washington post reports that grenell bashed biden's efforts at negotiating a new peace deal. this kind of shadow diplomacy is happening when europe is at a critical juncture with an it emboldened vladimir putin just starting a new six-year term in russia, and upping the ante in g ukraine. polish prime minister this week warned that the continent has entered a prewar era, and that, quote, we are living in the most critical moment since the end of the second world war. remember, trump said last month that russia can do, quote, whatever the trance six at once pay the required 2% of their gdp on defense. as -- michael commit right for foreign affairs, trump's first term tested the transatlantic relationship, his second would

break it. and one of the dangers, they write, is that he would e, undoubtedly stack his -- and even the united states is military leadership, with loyalists. indeed, trump's son, don jr., has touted richard grenell's credentials, and said that he was a top contender for, wait for it, secretary of state. he told grenell, quote, your name comes up a lot in some very high levels. you're in there with the base. yeah, that may be true, but what works for the maga base most definitely does not work for democracy at home and certainly not around the world. joining me now to discuss this, professor of history at new york university and author of strongmen mussolini to the president. also with us here onset hayes brown writer and editor at msnbc daly and jason stanley professor of philosophy at yale university is also the author of how fascism works the politics of u.s., of us and them, excuse me. it may be the politics of the

u.s. and them at some point, jason. we'll see. that might be the stick but ruth, i'll start with you, and what this means to have this kind of shadow secretary of state right now for the former president out there carrying out his bidding by undermining i biden's policies and convening with these antidemocratic leaders around the world. what does it say that this is happening so in the open when he is not even president? >> yeah, well, just as project 2025, or better known as project make america autocratic, is really planning a kind of, you know, shadow government, already recruiting the people who would be in the government, and just as trump rn is acting as though he is still president, kind of president internal exile, you have his envoy, as he calls grenell, and that is a title that sitting presidents, you know, give to the diplomatic representatives.

and, of course, you know, he's going around trying to lay the basis for u.s. policy as an autocratic entity with other autocrats. and he's very good, he's a good choice to do this because grenell, before he worked for trump, he worked, did pr for viktor orban, and he also, his political consulting firm did business with iran and with china. so he's like a one-stop shop for autocratic, you know, yo dealmaking. so no wonder trump is employing him now. >> hayes, as we just, you know, talk about, richard grenell has spent the better part of the last year doing groundwork for trump all over the world. what more can you tell us about his particular role in all this, the kind of space he occupies in trump world, and the kind of values and ideas that he espouses to be part of that inner core of trump world? >> i mean, what's fascinating about grenell is how closely ou his evolution has tracked out

of the republican party at large. i first encountered him when he was a spokesman for the u.s. ma ambassador to the united nations back in like 2012. he became briefly a spokesperson for mitt romney's presidential campaign. he resigned when it became clear that the gop wasn't okay with him being openly gay. fast forward to the trump era, and grenell has always been a very loud presence on social media, and that fit in great with trump world. he is the kind of person who, the values that he espouses, it really is a matter of loyalty to trump, and what's fascinating about that washington post story is former u.s. ambassador to the u.n., a john bolton,/former national security advisor donald trump, he panned grenell, who worked for him, saying, like, no, he is someone who is clearly just a loyalist to trump. so even someone like bolton is saying that this guy, who used to to really just be sort of, sort of classic foreign-policy republican under the bush administration, has swung so far to be in this maga world.

it says a lot about what they, how the gop has evolved and how maga has really taken over foreign-policy under republicans. >> yeah, i was going to say, i found grenell's observation about foreign-policy to be very amateurish for somebody who has occupied positions like that as well as the director of national intelligence at one point. jason, i'm going about the big picture here, and trump's strategy when he's trying to convey. is there any precedent for a former diplomat to keep meeting with world leaders outside of the u.s., and what that signals, and what are the consequences of it that you are trying to undermine the current president, but we've always hadd this kind of belief in america that our divisions here would kind of stop at the shores end, and that there was only one american president at any given moment. we weren't popping around the w world trying to -- undermine our current sitting president. >> right. so this is exactly what you would expect from an increasingly, from an authoritarian movement. in the '70s and '80s, the united states was a democracy, d but it promoted dictators in

latin america, thinking they were more easily controlled. essentially, the idea was democracy was not a system for the global south. the enemy was communism. we had to keep dictators in place there to prevent communism from infiltrating. this is something very different. the idea, now, is that the united states is going to become a dictatorship. and so we can't have democracies around us. it's very much like russia. putin can't have democracies in his neighborhood, because otherwise, his own people will see that other countries can replace their leaders. so this is, in that vein, in the '70s and '80s, though, the target was communism. with the trump, with trump and his cohort, the world target is democracy. >> ruth, i wanted to get your d thoughts on nato specifically here for a moment, and the significance of trump's attacks on nato, and the effective threat that he has made towards

european leaders at a moment when they are very vulnerable, as we just heard there from the polish president this week. has the damage to nato already been done? because even as joe biden runs for re-election, the idea that nato is no longer as valuable to america, and to american security, has been planted and eroded by donald trump for ed future republican leaders. >> well, i would say that they're trying their hardest to make people believe that. in fact, you know, nato is expanding. but they use information very effectively, and trump, you know, makes it clear that he's going to withdraw, and that's where the, the city was work of grenell and many, many others to undermine american democracy and the, the goal is to show the world that american democracy is, is over, as a force. and so, thus, s collective security of the type, the whole democratic international order,

and that's what nato has pledged to represent, is also going to be over. but, in fact, nato is expanding. though this is more up again on their part. >> jason, i wanted to play for you what the former white house chief strategist, steve bannon, said about how he thinks democrats should be treated if trump is re-elected. watch this. >> the evening after we won, the accountability project is going to start, and it's going to be thorough this time. it's going to be, they're going to be in prison. yes, prison. >> so not mincing his words there, this is a guy who could come back and occupy a senior position in the white house, certainly in the maga world. your thoughts on that, and do you think that there is a danger that we hear this, and he's saying it's so out in the open, he is not hiding it, it's not in, you know, in secret, smoke-filled rooms in washington, d.c. this is on his

radio podcast, whatever it is, i and it's happening right in front of our eyes, and barely gets any traction. >> right. this is what's so odd about the current moment, right? that project 2025, as ruth mentioned, is an explicit authoritarian takeover to replace civil servants and all the offices by loyalist political appointees. everything is very explicit. they're going to target opponents, they're attacking democracies abroad, they're making friends with their friends are the other authoritarians and fascists. so it's as explicit as you can i get, because they've realized there's no cost to being explicit. and too many, there's, it's still the case that people can't believe it. it's still the case that there's this american exceptionalism, it can't happen here, and then there's just history, which tells us time and time again to take authoritarians seriously. they, they say what they're going to do. hitler wrote saying what he was going to, and get people did not take it seriously and voted for them anyway, and we're

seeing something very similar repeat itself here. >> yeah, so to that point, ruth, and i think you and i have talked about this in the password reset, you know, what middle eastern dictators have done in the past, they've actually rounded up the dissidents, brought them out in front of the world, and then put them in jail or executed them, and we didn't think maybe that was going to happen, but now you have steve bannon here saying what he is saying, taking out a page right out of vladimir putin's playbook. >> yeah, and you also have trump posting on social media, trump has a big life-sized effigy, a picture of, you know, biden bound as though he'd been kidnapped like a hostage. and, you know, this is, this is not normal, but this is, this is a total the legitimation of the, the presidency, and i want to mention how unusual it was that viktor orban came to see, he came to the united states, and he broke with protocol.

he didn't see biden. he went to kiss the ring of trump at mar-a-lago. again, the, he's like the president in internal exile. and then he went to the heritage foundation. so, you know, again, the basis of the autocracy are showing themselves. >> yeah, very important point about that visit as well. and again, one that did not get the kind of attention that it deserved when it happened in mar-a-lago. ruth, thank you, as always. it's great to see you. everyone else, please stick around. next up, how erthe right is in a conspiracy theory tailspin over the baltimore bridge collapse. bridge collapse.

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if there's one thing we know republicans hate, it is politicizing a tragedy, especially in the wake of a mass shooting. >> we begin tonight the rush of politicization in the wake of tragedy. >> it's just not the time to dive into the politics and try to score political points. the next the reaction of democrats to any tragedies to try to politicize it. >> i could literally probably count the seconds before an incident like this becomes politicized. >> this is not the time to be talking about legislation. >> i know, i know, i know, how terrible the democrats would actually want to introduce legislation to protect people, especially innocent minors, from gun violence. but here's the thing.

republicans never seem to have a problem politicizing a tragedy themselves, with very different motivations. case in point, the reaction to the francis scott key bridge collapse in baltimore this week. within hours, despite six construction workers unaccounted for, conservatives wasted no time. first, it was to attack president biden. >> i was kind of outrageous, immediately for biden to express in this tragedy the idea that he's going to use federal funds to pay for the -- in entirety. >> yup, that was pennsylvania congressman dan meiser, who, as the white house quickly pointed out, has no problem breaking how he has secured funding to replace rages in his state. republicans then went on to their next strategy, and you know this one. spreading conspiracy theories. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene entered the picture, and other far right flamethrowers like alex jones and coming up, laura logan took to x to suggest it was a cyber attack, and the start of world war iii. obviously with no evidence to back any of it up. the claims got so much traction

that maryland governor wes moore was compelled to tell the public that there is no, quote, credible evidence the collapse was a terrorist attack. but that hasn't stopped major maga figures like don jr. from adopting the just asking questions stick to suggest terrorists were behind the collapse. i mean, it's not like roman and right-wing hosts would prime their viewers to trust conspiracy theories over the government, right? >> when trust is repeatedly broken, it shouldn't surprise anyone that during a crisis, our leaders explanations and assurances, as much as we want them, sometimes don't carry much weight. >> there will be more where that came from in the next week. heat up stories, misdirection, and blame games. but don't fall for it. >> when all else fails, there's always the far right's old standby. racism. from fox host maria, linking the collapse to biden's, quote, wide-open border, to a

republican gubernatorial candidate blaming it on diversity, the right wasted no time placing responsibility for the tragedy on minorities and migrants. again, despite zero evidence to back it up. but it was baltimore mayor brandon scott who arguably got the worst of it as he held a press conference to address the situation. a far right x account that's frequently liked and boosted by elon musk referred to scott as a, quote, baltimore's di mayor. despite the fact that scott was elected with over 70% of the vote. here's how scott reacted, speaking with my colleague julie reed. >> we know what they want to say, but they don't have the courage to say the n word, and the fact that i don't believe in their untruthful and wrong ideology, and i'm very proud of my heritage and who i am and where i come from scares them. >> as conservatives rush to demonize racialized minorities

and migrants in the wake of this tragedy, it serves as a timely reminder about the dangerous laborers, many of them immigrants, face in this country every day. as nbc news reports, most of the workers killed are presumed dead following the collapse are originally from america. here's just some of the heartbreaking reactions from families of those victims. >> [ speaking in a global language ] >> [ speaking in a global language ] >> this was a horrific tragedy, one with devastating consequences. the republican lawmakers and their band of far right opportunists used it to launch political attacks and do nothing but sow chaos. to what end? charlie sykes wrote, there

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>> all right, back now with the rights conspiracy theories and racist reactions to the baltimore bridge collapse. jason stanley and hayes brown are back with me. joining the conversation, host of the fast politics podcast. jason, i'll start with you. you have written extensively about how i would say propaganda, in this case, that's what it is, is easily spread these days, and jumps the rails from the fringe corners of the internet into mainstream politics, and the threat that it poses to our democracy. how concerning is it that republicans are priming their base not to believe the truth especially in a major disaster event like this in baltimore, but to believe the fringe conspiracy theories that are out there?

>> so they're doing two things. they're spreading conspiracy theories to undermine reality, and they're linking it to old american conspiracy theories, like the one that ended reconstruction. reconstruction was the brief period after the civil war when black americans were allowed to, to vote, and we had black politicians, and there was a conspiracy theory that said that black magicians were corrupt and incompetent. and so we couldn't allow them again. so that's very familiar to americans. that's, a good conspiracy theory brings you back to some, some, some conspiracy theory in the past that's embedded in the nation's consciousness. so that's really what make america great again means, is, is going back to that time of, of those antiblack conspiracy theories. and then you just have this international aspect that we've seen in russia, and russia was rt, that we've seen in poland with the disaster of 2010, where when you spread conspiracy theories, this is what rt did.

it undermines people's understanding of the truth, and they don't know where to look, and so they just look to power. >> and part of that, molly, is that when you have tragedies, and then you have the narrative that it's because a black mayor, it's because of dei, it's because of incompetence, you then can fill that void with whatever narrative that you want, and you bring together the people behind to say, that's who we're going to go after, we had to correct this. what is it that stood out to you from just the craziness of this past week? because it was politicians, it was the flamethrowers like alex jones, it was the right wing india at fox news. so it was all of the layers. it wasn't just, as i said, a fringe corner in the internet. >> well, since 2020, since donald trump lost the election, he has sort of operated on earth two, right? he's had his own earth, right, with its own set of fact is, and when fox news went against those facts, they lost viewers. and so he's sort of built up an

ecosystem of trump friendly media that repeats these lies. so really seeing the, sort of the conclusion of that, or, i hope the conclusion, but likely just a continuation of that, which is this sort of earth 2 world, where this is all the fault of dei, this is all the fault of, you know, they were mad at mayor pete because of whatever. i mean, you know, mayor pete is, like, super competent, and has had all of these jobs in government. >> i love the fact that republicans were saying pete buttigieg got this job because he was gay, he is not competent, and they forgot that donald trump had a neurosurgeon named ben carson as the head of housing and urban development. you want to talk about, like, notifications to be a secretary? >> well, also mitch mcconnell's wife had the job before him. i mean, she has very big fancy family business, but i'm not sure that makes her transportation secretary. so, i mean, i do think, look, this is this unreality thing,

and you have a percentage of america that believes only what trump and trump friendly outlets tell them. and i don't know how you get those people back. >> let me ask you about the narrative. we definitely know republicans love to demonize migrants, and make them the villains of everything that happens in this country, and yet six of those who died on that bridge, among them missing until now, are believed to be migrant workers from latin america. i don't want to read something from our colleague, jones for msnbc, writing the tragedy serves as a timely reminder of the essential role these people play in fueling the u.s. economy. republicans would rather demonize them instead of trying to help them. >> yeah, i mean, that is exactly what has been happening, especially since trump came into office, and it was building before that. but the anti-immigration push from the gop, from maga, it hurts the u.s. economy, and that's something that just has not gotten through to the

people who believe it for these various racist reasons. they are so focused on the great replacement conspiracy theory, the idea that immigrants are being brought in specifically to replace white people and to boost democratic vote numbers, that they're ignoring the fact that, i mean, it's a shift from, you know, the '90s to early 2000, when the argument is, oh, the immigrants are coming and taking our jobs. now that they're finally lowering the amount of legal immigration, even, and you're seeing the economic impact of it, you're seeing that businesses are struggling to hire enough workers to actually get things done. so you do have industries like construction where you still have plenty of migrants coming through, you have people, and these migrants who were tragically lost during the bridge collapsed, they're a sterling example of the kinds of jobs that these people are coming here to work, these essential jobs that people sort of discard. a lot of people don't want to do. yes. >> jason, i wanted to get your thoughts on something that gop

senator eric schmidt of missouri is saying, that the real cause of this collapse is the president. watch. >> this is the consequence, this sort of distrust of terrible leadership. when you have an administration that has what denies the department of justice, tried to throw political opponents in jail, tried to throw them off the ballot, conducted a vast censorship enterprise to silence americans who don't buy into their narrative, whether it was on efficacy of masks or transmissibility of covid after you've had the vaccine, or the hunter biden laptop. >> i have lost track of what in the world, like, the links of things that he was trying to say, and i'm not trying to kind of laugh at it, but this is what is being pumped out into the airwaves going into conservatives all across the country. the senators trying to pin the blame on the bike administration as the real reason conservatives don't believe what officials tell them about events like the

bridge collapsed. i mean, talk about the irony here. surely the reason people don't believe experts and officials is because the conspiracy laden echo chamber they have created on the far right. >> look, none of this is factual. none of this is a debate about facts. it's a mistake to have this as a debate about fact. we're here on these shows pointing out that it a name, it's false, there's no factual basis. it doesn't even pretend to be a debate about facts. there's great replacement theory, there's a non-whites are incompetent, there's immigrants are both here to steal your jobs and they're lazy. none of it is coherent. the, the, it's not about sexuality. it's about saying joe biden is corrupt and donald trump is the anticorruption candidate. you know, it's undermining, that all law is just us versus them. the other side once black americans in positions of power over white americans, like

happened with our first black president. it's, it's evoking all that panic and fear. so it's just simply us versus them when you try to deal with it as sexuality. it doesn't even work. >> yeah, and i was thinking about what happened in palestine, ohio with the train derailment, how the reaction was there friend cameron biden, and i can only imagine that the reason why this is what it is is because of baltimore and the fact that it is a city that is predominantly black, but has, certainly, a black mayor, and certainly has left-leaning politics. if this was in texas or florida, i specked with the eight very different reaction from these republicans. jason stanley, the so much. i greatly appreciate your insight as always. the rest of my panel, please stick around. we are back with the worst of the week, but next, the resignation buddy speaking fermenting at the state department. department. resh. with better nutrition, too. we love our eggs any style. as long as they're the best.

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inside radio city hall this

thursday, it was all glitz and glamour for president biden's fundraiser. outside, though, different story. hundreds called for a cease- fire in gaza, protesting biden's handling of the israel- hamas war. some disrupted the discussion on stage inside the venue as well. but protests against the administration's handling of the war are not just taken place on the streets. resigned her post at the state department this week, where she served as a foreign affairs officer working on human rights issues in the middle east. in an interview with the washington post, she said that she wasn't able to do her job anymore, and that, quote, trying to advocate for human rights just became impossible. sheline is the latest resignation from the state department, but certainly not the first. former senior official josh paul left back in october over the united states supply of weapons to israel. i spoke to him shortly after he left. >> there's no room for this sort of typical discussion to happen thinking about, is this the right thing to be doing, and should we be providing weapons into a situation in which we know that civilian harm, significant civilian harm, will happen?

>> annelle joins me now. annelle, it's great to have you on the show. i want to start with where we just left off in that sound bite from your former colleague, josh paul, at the state department, and what he said. and he has come out and express support for your resignation. do you agree with him and what we just heard him say, and in what ways do you try to express dissent, but it was not received, or whether it was received at all in any way? >> yes, i mean, i absolutely agree with josh paul. you know, and he was working more directly on these issues than i was. i mean, i was working on promoting human rights, and my portfolio was primarily in north africa. but that, that work just became so difficult after october 7th, to the extent that it felt nearly impossible, either because members of civil society in these societies, in these countries didn't want to have anything to do with the u.s. government,

understandably, because of our policy, or it was putting them at greater risk, that it had really become a liability to have any kind of affiliation with the u.s. but, i'll stop there. >> can you tell us in what way your job became difficult after october 7th? was there pressure on you not to speak up? was there concern about what the united states was doing, and, perhaps, it manipulating evidence or changing evidence so that the reality or truth about what was happening in gaza did not emerge? describe to us how it became difficult. >> no, i should clarify, so again, because i was not working on israel-palestine. i just mean trying to advocate for human rights, which the state department does and continues to do, which is an extremely important part of the state department's mission, and again, i very much believe in the work of my colleagues in my office. >> got it. >> but it's just that the, the charge of hypocrisy became really difficult to navigate

around, you know? even if, you know, the u.s. government is trying to criticize a particular middle eastern government for their human rights abuses. you know, what length does the u.s. had to stand on when we are, in fact, not following our own laws, as far as following up in terms of monitoring of the weapons that we provide, not following the leahy laws, not following 620 i of the foreign assistance act. so i, i just thought that it was no longer possible to really credibly advocate for human rights. >> so let me ask you this way. do you believe the united states is being hypocritical with its policies on gaza and the way human rights violations are taking place there, given the fact that it claims to defend and speak up about human rights elsewhere around the world? >> i do. and the, i think what's so unfortunate is that this administration came in pledging to really highlight human rights, and, you know, to try to come back from the damage of

the trump administration, the ways that that administration had really undermined a lot of the work of the state department, and america's role in international institutions in terms of the brutal international order, and i speak for many colleagues who are extremely distraught by what u.s. policy is doing in gaza, but also the damage it's doing to america's leadership, and, you know, for example, i think many people found that support for ukraine really affirmed their belief in what america is supposed to stand for, and yet, when you look at the hypocrisy in terms of the, the u.s. just ignoring the, the gross violations of human rights that israel's committing, and not only ignoring that, but directly enabling them, and continuing to send more and more weapons. we just thought announcement of more weapons.

biden is not using his leverage here. he keeps saying, you know, we need to see fewer civilian casualties, and then netanyahu ignores him, and he keeps sending more weapons. >> how widespread is this among officials that you work with that you know this sentiment? you certainly have a better sense of it inside government than any of us do on the outside, and you said that your colleagues at the state department asked her to resign publicly as a way to speak out on their behalf. can you give us a sense of how widespread these frustrations are within the state department or elsewhere across the u.s. government? >> i mean, it's hard to say. the state department is a very large institution, and i don't claim to speak for everyone, but there are many, many people who have been trying to do what they can, including on this issue, you know, in terms of trying to put in place accountability measures for israel. we saw the sanctions on extremist settlers, for example. for the most part, i would consider it grossly inadequate, but, you know, there are people who are working extremely hard on these issues, as well as on

many other issues. so i, i do just want to reiterate how important the work of the state department is. it's just, i no longer wanted to be part of this government. >> are you at all worried about your future career and what it means that you have publicly resigned like this? >> i, i imagine i, i won't ever get to work for the government again. >> all right, i know, annelle, i appreciate you coming on the program and talking to us about this. thank you so much. >> thank you. our worst of the week is next. next.

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all right, it is saturday night, so that means it is time for the worst of the week. donald trump says two corinthians is is go to book of the bible, which includes the verse we live by faith, not by sight. and you have to see translated script to believe it, but let's start with what really kick this off. last month, trump rolled out those golden maga sneakers for the low introductory price of $400. in february, the rift wafted with trump's victory 47 cologne for $99. and according to the website, its signature scent is, quote, strength and success , with notes of citrus, cedar, leather, and amber. but one reviewer described it probably more accurately as furniture polish sprayed on your back deck.

but this week, the twice impeached quadruple indicted ex- president has launched, perhaps, his greatest business venture yet, maga edition bibles that can be all yours for a near $60. >> americans need a bible in their home, and i have many. it's my favorite book. i'm proud to endorse and encourage you to get this bible. we must make america pray again. i think you all should at a copy of god bless the usa bible now, and help spread our christian values with others. >> yes, because when i think of someone who knows all about the bible and its teachings, i think of donald trump. >> the bible means a lot to me, but i don't want to get into specifics. >> even to cite a verse that you like? >> old testament guy or new testament guy? >> probably equal. >> 2 corinthians, right? to learn science, 3:17. that's the whole ball game.

>> is that your bible? >> it's a bible. >> oh, that is the whole ball game. you know, there's actually another bible verse that trump and his followers should know about, matthew 7:15. beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. let's bring back my panel to discuss this. molly, your reaction to great grifter that he is, he's a gift or in some ways, because he does give us these moments that we can kind of laugh that, although it may come at the peril of our democracy, and i feel sorry for the millions of americans who are coughing up their hard-earned money to smell victory 47. >> i mean, look, it's a president who sells bibles to raise money during holy week for his legal problems with an adult film star who he had an affair with when his third wife has delivered his fifth child.

i mean, if that isn't something right out of, like, a flannery o'connor story, i don't know what is. i mean, you know, this is not, we, you know, the thing is, it's scary, because he's anti- democracy, and the republican party has gone along with his authoritarianism, but it is also, like, right out of a coen brothers movie. >> hayes, your reaction to donald trump being the avatar of christian values? >> i mean, i think that's what fascinating about it is the way that his, evangelical sports especially, kind of pick and choose what they like and don't like about it. they have such an amazing propensity for cognitive dissonance that's really, it should be studied, because you, you, it's hard to see how you come across as, like, no, i want to live my life by the bible, but jesus's teachings are so important, and then you follow donald trump, and what's really great about this is the way he's hawking it in a way

that suggests it is a collectors item, but you should have several bibles in your home, that one isn't enough. like, the family heritage bible, but once probably not good enough. does that once they got bless the usa on it? do you hate america? then you need this bible. >> the crazy thing is, this is not even the worst graft, i would probably say. i mean, besides the sneakers, this one is one that definitely took the cake for me. >> the nft, the non-fungible tokens depicting trump's various characters, including a superhero, a cowboy, and an astronaut. leave it or not, they were actually going for $99 at the time. he managed to raise about $1 million. so people are actually falling for this stuff. i mean, that's, that's what's painful for the rest of us on the outside of the cold to see. >> yeah. small, a lot of these people are small dollar donors who are not, you know, going to benefit from the tax cuts for billionaires that donald trump would enact. and i think, you know, look, he has brilliantly conned these people yet again. >> yeah. >> yet again. that doesn't stop, and they're

voting against their own interests. i mean, you know, i mean, the stuff they have planned for project 2025, you know, work requirements for food stamps. i mean, just craziness. >> let me bring into the mix another bonus worst of the week for you, and this is michigan state representative mathematic, who tried to whip up anti-immigrant furor this week by claiming buses that appeared at a detroit airport were being, quote, loaded with illegal invaders. obviously, quick fact check on that, the only problem is the buses were for gonzaga basketball players arriving for the march madness tournament. medic, believe it or not, still doubling down, even after he was corrected. >> wow. >> your reaction? >> oh, to have that level of confidence. >> you see a bus at an airport in this country, it only means one thing. >> period. >> if you see people getting on a bus with a police escort, the

immediate first thought is, there is an invasion coming, and the police are helping them? like, the fact that he is so willing to say these outlandish things, and expects to be rewarded for them, and that he probably will be rewarded for them by whatever little carveout district he has in michigan. that's what i think is the most upsetting part here, that he will face no repercussions for this, that he, you know, if, if he managed to lose his next election based off of this, fantastic. i would love to be wrong. >> and to quote you, they're living on earth 2, these folks, right? >> and he'll never apologize. and he'll say that it was, it was made up, that he was right in the mainstream media was lying to you, and -- >> anything short of gonzaga coming out and saying those were our buses and those were our players, he will just absolutely say prove me wrong otherwise , because i saw what i saw, right? >> even then. >> even then, he might dismiss them. exactly. you'll say gonzaga's in on it as well. molly jones, great to have you guys. in so much for joining us at

the hour. take you for making time for us of this tonight. make sure to come back tomorrow. we're going to be talking to congressman robert garcia and a journalist who has uncovered 50 major companies that have donated millions of dollars to election deniers since the january attack. until then, i'm ayman mohyeldin in new york. have a good night. ctor saw damage,... rinvoq helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check. for both uc and crohn's: rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid—free remission... and visibly reduced damage. check. check. and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor

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