and that will do it for me, thank you for watching. be sure to tune in tomorrow to the sunday show, when congressman row, and gerry connolly of virginia join us live in studio to preview big funding decisions next week when the house returns, including aid to ukraine and israel with speaker mike johnson's job on the line. les, i'll also speak with congress woman barbara lead to get her take on florida's major developments on abortion rights, and how it could all play out in november's election, tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. all us on x, instagram, and threads, you can also catch clips of the show on youtube. up next, sean carroll, the head of a humanitarian aid group in gaza, about the future of their efforts after the attack on a world central kitchen convoy. >> good evening, tonight,

inflection point, the israeli ale strike on the world central kitchen, workers have sparked outrage, demands from congress, and the strongest wording yet from president biden. why now? ident biden. the flaring tension between jack smith and the judge presiding over trumps classified documents case, legal experts say the special counsel could go nuclear. trump says he is all about law and order, so why protect and promise pardons to those who attacked our democracy? i'm ayman, let's do it. >> this is as she was known to her friends. for the last five years, the 43- year-old australian served as a relief lead for shep jose andres aid nonprofit world central kitchen. is always work with world central kitchen took her to disaster zones all across the globe, from the united states

to haiti, pakistan, and friends described her as a dedicated and hard worker. someone who would do anything, absolutely anything to help anyone. she was the first person to jump on a plane and go to the most difficult and trying disaster in the world at a moments notice. it was that innate desire to help that actually brought her to gaza, where she worked tirelessly to feed a population that is now on the brink of famine. however, that assignment would be, unfortunately, her last. on monday, she along with her six other colleagues were on their way back from delivering food in central gaza when they were killed in an israeli air strike. the three vehicle convoy, including two armored cars bearing the world central kitchen logo was hit, despite having its coordinated movements with the israeli military. here you can see the aftermath of that attack of a large hole

left in one of the cars roofs. the projectile striking directly through the center of the charities logo. another vehicle can be seen here, completely destroyed. it's charred remains left on the roadside as fuel soaks the ground. here's how chef jose andres described the attack to reuters. >> they were targeted systematically, car by car. they were not successful in hitting them, and they kept trying. this happened over 1.5, 1.8 kilometers. this was not just bad luck, situation where, oops, we dropped a bomb in the wrong place, no. what i know is that we were targeted deliberately. >> according to an internal investigation released by the israeli military on friday, the strike was a grave mistake stemming from a serious failure due to a mistaken identification, errors in decision-making, and an attack

contrary to the standard operating procedures. the military said that those who approved the strike were convinced that they were targeting armed hamas operatives and not wc k employees. we should note nbc news has not independently verified that claim. as a result, two officers have been dismissed from their positions and three others reprimanded, including a senior officer. in response to that, world central kitchen released a statement demanding the creation of an independent commission to investigate the attack, noting, without systemic change, there will be more military failures, more apologies, and more grieving families. in the hours before monday's attack on the world central kitchen, israeli forces in northern gaza withdrew from what was once the strip's largest and most advanced medical complex. for two weeks the complex was the site of a massive military

operation after israel claimed it was being used as a terrorist command center by hamas. keep in mind, israel had already attacked the hospital, and said that it had previously cleared it from militants early in the war. former israeli prime minister called the raid an amazing battlefield achievement, and claimed that not one civilian was killed during the two weeks siege. but testimonies from survivors and witnesses actually tell a very different story. one journalist on the ground described the scene as unlike anything he had ever seen before. bodies in horrific conditions, many with their hands and legs tied behind their backs, some flattened by bulldozers. others decomposed and partially eaten by stray dogs, many of the remains left burned and unrecognizable. loved ones only to identify their relatives by the close on their backs. also on monday, 175 miles away

from gaza and the hospital, israeli warplanes darted across the syrian border, reportedly striking an embassy building in damascus, killing a senior iranian general. although israel has not claimed responsibility for that attack, the move marks a dramatic escalation between israel and iran since diplomatic premises are considered off-limits even in times of war. right now, the united states is on high alert, preparing for a possible response from iran, fearing strikes on israeli or even american assets across the region. each of these three events, all of which took place within hours of one another, the killing of aid workers, the siege of a hospital, the targeting of a diplomatic building, should raise serious global concerns over israel's allegedly systemic breaches of international law, especially for the united states, who is israel's top ally and supplier of aid work the very same day

these attacks were unfolding, according to new reporting, the u.s. sent the israeli military thousands of more bombs. and yet, somehow, despite what international organizations and palestinians have documented and alleged, john kirby, the white house national security communications adviser was asked whether israel's actions have violated international law, and this is how he responded. >> the state department has a process in place, to date, as you and i are speaking, they have not found any incidents where the israelis have violated international humanitarian law. >> it does seem, however, monday's attacks, particularly the killing of those seven aid workers was an inflection point in the relationship between president biden and israel's prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, after six months of war. and intense phone call between the leaders on thursday, biden reportedly told the prime minister the attack was unacceptable. he actually warned that u.s. policy going forward will

depend on israel's actions in relieving the ongoing humanitarian crisis in gaza. despite denying that it was restricting aid into gaza over the past several weeks and months, within hours of that call from joe biden, the israeli government suddenly reversed course and approved the opening of three additional humanitarian aid corridors. so, it's clear the strike on the world central kitchen employees marked a shift for the president. in fact in the aftermath of that attack, joe biden use language we haven't heard from him before, issuing a statement that he was outraged by the killings. not everyone has responded well to biden's shifting tone. here's elise jordan, a former george w. bush state department staffer on this network earlier this week. >> i'm so sick of hearing how upset president biden is. the buck stops with him. if he wants to stop arms sales,

if he wants to stop the bombs that are indiscriminately killing civilians, he can. he has the power. >> jordan is right. biden's feeling of outrage means next to nothing when the u.s. has the power to actually force a significant change in israeli policy. israel's swift action on friday in response to biden's request clearly shows how much leverage the u.s. has if it actually wants to use it. i also have to ask why the president was outraged now, the killing of these seven aid workers has rightfully received global attention. but it was not by any means an isolated incident. according to the united nations a total of 224 humanitarian aid workers have been killed since the start of the war. and an nbc news investigation released this morning found a pattern of attacks from israel's military on aid agencies over the last few months.

unlike the killing of the world central kitchen staff members who were citizens of the u.s., canada, australia, poland, and the uk, most of these other deadly incidents have involved palestinian aid workers. why was there no outrage when palestinians were killed? where was the outrage when israel's military struck an apartment building full of sheltering civilians in october in with the human rights watch has called an apparent war crime? or when israel fired multiple strikes on refugee camps without warning, leaving more than 150 people dead, which the u.n. called a brazen violation of international law. this, by no means, isn't an exhaustive list. i could go on for hours. for months, israel has fluttered international law and the united states has done nothing. why? in a new interview with the new yorker, former state department official aaron david miller pulled back the curtain, explaining what's really behind the biden administration's increasingly contradictory policy in the middle east. how could the president be this

outraged and still continue to arm netanyahu's military? according to miller, it's simple. do i think that joe biden has the same depth of feeling and empathy for the palestinians of gaza as he does for the israelis? no. he doesn't. nor does he convey it. i don't think there's any doubt about that. aaron david miller is with us, he worked as an arab israeli negotiator under six different secretaries of state, he's currently a senior fellow at the carnegie endowment for international peace and a regular contributor to the show. thank you for coming back on the program. i want to start right just left off, you said there is no doubt that the president doesn't share the same depth of empathy for the palestinians as he does for the israelis. you've also said joe biden stands alone among modern presidents for his emotional relationship with the idea of israel. walk us through that. how does the emotional relationship permeate how the president has handled this conflict so far every step of

the way? >> look, if you want an analysis as to why in six months of war the biden administration has refused to impose a single cost or consequence on israel's actions, i'll give you the answer. you're not going to like it, but i'm here to analyze, not advocate. number one, it's what you referred to. this president has a unique emotional commitment to the idea of israel, the people of israel, the security of israel, not to the current israeli government which is the most extreme and right-wing in israel's history. number two, politics, the democratic party is divided, and progressives want the administration to impose serious costs, mainstream democrats as well have grown incredibly angry and frustrated, and also want the administration to at least impose conditions on military aid. but, one guy's a floor is another guys ceiling.

there is a political cost on the other side as well, should the president decide to sanction israel, or to condition or cut off u.s. military assistance. you have a republican party that has emerged as the israel can do no wrong party, the presumptive republican nominee who considers himself the most pro-israeli president in the history of the universe. the president, joe biden, facing a very difficult, perhaps one of the most important elections in modern american history, months away, is navigating a very fine line between this republican party that wants no criticism of israel, and a deeply divided democratic party that wants the president to take action against israel. finally, is the question that i ask myself all the time. does biden want to make a point, or does he want to make a difference? i listen to your commentary, and the word hamas did not

appear once. and i understand, i'm appalled by the humanitarian catastrophe in gaza, i'm appalled by the exponential rise in palestinian debts, and the killings of entire families. but the reality in the president's mind, again, i'm analyzing, here. shoot me if you want. the reality in the presidents mind is this, if he wants to change the pictures in gaza, if he wants to search humanitarian assistance, if he wants to free hostages, if he wants to find a way to de-escalate the israeli military campaign and perhaps ended, he cannot do that without the assent, the cooperation, the acquiescence of the israeli government. and the point here is not benjamin netanyahu against joe biden. it's more than netanyahu. it's not netanyahu's war. it's a war dear israeli public wants to fight, even though

they want to see the back of netanyahu. it's a war that the presumptive successor to benjamin netanyahu, if elections were held today, netanyahu could not form a government. it's the security establishment. so, presidents persona, politics, and the issue of how to actually end this war, all of these things combine, my view, to create a situation where the president, even though he's angry, frustrated, and has come as close as i think we've seen to actually issuing some sort of ultimatum, i call it biden put netanyahu on probation. is waiting to see whether or not any of this is going to change the situation in gaza. it may not. it may not. but that's the explanation. and one last point.

there is no doubt, you referred to the last point of the interview, there's absolutely no doubt, if you listen to the president's speech, you see a degree of depth of feeling, he talks about the black hole of loss. he's conflated in many respects the personal tragedies in his own life, with the losses that he feels is really svelte on october 7th. he just can't convey, in my judgment, i've listened to everything he said for the last six months, he does not convey the same sensibility, the same sense of empathy with palestinians. the palestinian issue, and the suffering of people in gaza. there is no question about that. >> and david, that's why we love to bring you on the show, to analyze and help make sense of all of this for us. there is certainly a lot to break down, and i think part of the points that we were trying

to raise is not necessarily how the war ends, but how the war has been conducted throughout all of this time. you've spoken about the three levers the administration could use in its approach to israel, including conditioning aid or restricting offensive weapons, exerting power at the u.n., abandoning the release of hostages as a condition for a cease-fire, how likely is it biden will pull any of those levers in the near future? >> the secretary of state has to certify, according to national security memorandum 20, whether or not the government of israel has provided credible and reliable assurances that they are not obstructing international efforts to search humanitarian assistance into gaza. the israelis have provided the assurances, i would say that if, in fact, in the next

several weeks there is no fundamental change, in israeli policy in terms of the humanitarian assistance, and look, the israelis two months ago, three months ago, could have done a lot more. the port is only 16 miles north of gaza. it's got all of the screening equipment necessary to accommodate large amounts of assistance, which would then be trucked overland, not to southern gaza, but to northern gaza where it's needed most. if the israelis don't comply, i think the administration is going to face the test. redlines when it comes to israel, as you know, have a habit of turning pink. i couldn't make any, i wouldn't bet my mortgage on that. but clearly, the administration is reaching the point where israeli action is going to be

required. one last point. it seems to me the only way you're going to break the battlefield dynamic right now is to get an israeli hamas deal, which frees hostages, not all of them, the elderly, the sick, and the women, in particular. the women in particular. in exchange for 45 days of quiet, a temporary cease-fire, and a degree of quiet in gaza where you can, in fact, search humanitarian assistance. if that deal doesn't come to fruition, and it's not one hand clapping. it would require hamas's cooperation in the senate. then you might as well hang a closed for the season sign on u.s. policy. i don't know what our policy would be. >> it's always a pleasure, thank you so much for coming on, and analyzing all of this for us, good to see you as always. >> thanks, ayman, love our conversations. next up, a number of aid

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we do not except the narrative of regrettable incidents. we do not accept it because what is happened to world central kitchen and mss convoys and shelters is part of the same pattern of deliberate attacks on humanitarians, health workers, journalists, u.n. personnel's schools and homes. >> i have to tell you that in the past, at least, in my experience, the israelis usually fire and then ask questions. >> multiple aid groups are suspending operations in gaza, and one of those stands for american your ease refugee aid, with me now is the president and ceo, sean carroll. it's good to have you back on the show. your organization was one that had partnered with world central kitchen in gaza to deliver thousands of meals, your employees have also been targets of israeli air strikes,

logistics coordinator was killed last month,. talk to us about the dangers your workers have faced, and all the factors that drove you to pause operations in gaza. why did you make that decision? >> thanks, ayman, thanks for having me back. that's exactly right, there are now 244 humanitarian aid workers that have been killed in gaza in israeli air strikes. this is a pattern. and the world central kitchen killing was the most dramatic, and has obviously become the most visible around the world, and it was very personal for us because we knew them, we worked with them day in and day out in gaza. but this is a pattern, and our staff person was killed, and we have no explanation for that. we don't know whether he was targeted or not, but to read recently that israel has an artificial intelligence a program called daddy's home, and

he was killed just after arriving home from spending a day delivering humanitarian aid, he was still wearing his anera sweatshirt, he was sitting down to coffee with his family when he was killed. three family members were injured and one of them, his six-year-old son, died. six of our other staff have lost more than 60 family members. but, he was in a shelter that was the conflicted, the coordinates were shared with the idf on more than one occasion, including four days before he was killed. the world central kitchen, we know now, had their car shot at two days before the lethal strike. this is a pattern. it has us all extremely worried. this is not the way this is supposed to happen. a brigadier general in the idf said, where he and i shared airtime yesterday, he said the israeli army should not be held to different standards from other armies around the world, and i agreed with him.

the rules of engagement, the confliction, the geneva conventions, and adherence to international humanitarian law. and it certainly feels like it's not being held to that high standard, that it says it holds itself to. >> let me ask you, do you believe right now given what has happened, 220+ aid workers killed including these seven hospitals, ambulances, shelters, schools, do you believe israel is being held to a different standard when it comes to aid organizations? in any other war zone where militaries are conducting this kind of war, with these types of figures and statistics of casualties, would there be a different reaction from the international community, certainly the u.s.? >> i think the world is seeing that israel is being held to a different standard, being held

to a lower standard, not a higher one. let's imagine if, let's imagine that hamas killed world central kitchen workers delivering meals in israel. imagine the outrage, imagine the retaliation, imagine the redoubled efforts to ensure that more arms don't go to hamas after an attack like that. we should be doing the same after this attack, which is one of many, far, far, far too many, and seems as many people are saying seems to be part of a pattern. >> we have about 45 seconds, i did want to get your thoughts on something. your organization has never before paused operations in occupied palestinian territory since its founding in 1968. what would need to change in order for you to resume delivering aid in gaza during this conflict you mark >> we would need more assurances that the confliction is real, that it will work, that the coordination is there, but more than anything else, we

need to see commitment, real tone in the idf, statement released findings on their own investigation, and i agree with world central kitchen and others that there needs to be an independent investigation, when there's a tragedy of this magnitude, when people are killed, you can't have a party that has admitted its responsible for the deaths be the only ones investigating. i think we need assurances, a change of tone, a recognition that, in fact, the delivery of humanitarian aid is necessary, it's covered under international law and it serves the interests of everyone including the security of israel and its citizens. >> we hope for the sake of your work and everyone on the ground that you are given those assurances so you can get back to doing the important work that you do for the people of gaza. thank you so much, we greatly appreciate me making time for us this evening.

up next, the good news and the bad news for special counsel jack smith after judge cannons order in the classified documents case. documents case. m? so i started my own studio. getting a brick—and—mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio 1 to studio 3. when you start small you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card. make more of what's yours.

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freestylelibre.us/medicare. ♪♪ you might be shocked to hear this but donald trump is trying to delay the classified documents trial yet again. in a motion filed friday trumps layers asked judge aileen cannon for more time to examine documents produced by prosecutors ahead of a 70 day window to set a trial date. that window opens may 20th. this comes a day after judge cannon shut down trumps request to dismiss the case based on grounds that the presidential records act protects him from prosecution. meanwhile, tensions are bubbling between the judge and the special prosecutor jack smith, this week smith strongly criticized a recent decision by cannon saying it would distort the trial and potentially lead to a verdict in trumps favor. he was referring to cannon's request last month asking both the defense and the prosecution to submit jury instructions

with two scenarios on how the presidential records act would relate to the charges trump is facing deirdre and his dow, charles coleman junior, msnbc legal analyst and civil rights attorney, a former new york prosecutor eric and jill leinbach's, and co-host of the sisters-in-law podcast. great to have both of you with us. charles, i'll start with you. break down for us why this is such a point of contention between judge cannon and jack smith, this jury instruction about how the scenario should be in order to understand the presidential records act. >> for one, ayman, it creates an out for the president that they didn't even create for themselves. donald trump's defense team was not walking into this arguing that he was immune under the presidential records act. this was something that essentially the judge put forward, and now has allowed the defense to let continue to breed. he's not charged under that.

he's charged under the espionage act. that's a big reason why jack smith and his team have such a strong objection to this remaining on the table. the other issue that they have is that they really want judge cannon to make a decision. make a decision at this point that allows jack smith to either go and appeal and get this thing closed and done for whatever reason, or say that it's not going to work so that we can move on from this. this is something that has been circulating and waiting for a long time, and is contributed to the delay. now that judge cannon has said, no, i'm not going to dismiss on these grounds, that's fine, but the fact that she left it open with respect to these jury instructions is still problematic down the line, because of when jeopardy could attach and prevent jack smith from prosecuting donald trump, should they not get the rulings that they need. >> jill, how unusual is it for judges to ask these sorts of jury instructions, and then have the prosecutor on the case of fire back at her for it? the new york times pointed out that these kinds of instructions are usually given out on the eve of a trial, not

this far out from before a trial date has been set. >> it is very unusual, ayman. normally, it could even be just before the end of the trial, after there's more evidence in. it is very rare, if it is this far in advance, of not even having a trial date. there is no trial set. there's no reason for it. even more unusual is asking for two conflicting points of view on instructions based on the presidential records act, which has nothing, nothing at all, to do with this case. as charles said, the indictment is for the espionage act. the presidential records act was created right after watergate because richard nixon took a similar position, that these aren't my documents. i'm taking them with me. in the government said no, these are not your documents,

you cannot have the tapes, they stay in the possession of the government. richard nixon wanted to make money by taking a tax deduction for donating them, so this presidential records act was passed. it has nothing to do with making personal anything that was part of your government job, personal means a birthday card you got from your grandson. it does not mean a classified document that you took home with you, and it doesn't be classified because you took it home. the presidential records act has nothing to do with it, the judges wrong on the law, and it wouldn't be a fact question for the jury. you student wouldn't need a jury instruction. >> what do you see happening next between judge cannon and jack smith? it's a tense standoff right now, it doesn't seem to be trending in the right direction. what do you see happening next? >> i don't know that jack smith will be quick to pull the trigger on looking to get another judge, the reason i say that is, you don't know what you're going to get in lieu of

judge cannon. given the very strange rulings that we've seen from a very long time, now, there's a strong likelihood that they would get a better judge for their case, but at the same time, you don't know what the delays would be, if you choose to go a different direction. what you're doing strategically, however, is signaling to the judge that we may go about this and we're not doing it lightly. that is intended to back judge cannon off of what has been this avalanche of support for donald trump throughout the entirety of this litigation. i do think that you may see more rulings that go jack smith's way. may not necessarily be as blatantly pro-trump as we've seen before, but i don't know that he's going to pull the trigger as fast as things might suggest. >> jill, it's not just from helping delay the trial, judge cannon has been slow walking her decisions in this case. what's your gut on how she will

rule in his latest delay motion, and is it a done deal that there's no way this trial concludes before the election? >> the answer to your first question is, it is impossible to detect predict what judge cannon will do. i really think she has acted in ways, this is not an ad hominem attack this is based on her conduct. as a result of her conduct, i think that jack smith has no choice but to either mandamus her or make a motion in limine to prevent any evidence about the presidential records act to be introduced. that would limit the evidence, because it has no relevance. the big fear is that if he doesn't do something like that, and doesn't get it decided by the 11th circuit, her opinion said it's not appropriate at the pretrial stage, which, to me it was like trump trumpets blaring, wait till we swear the jury, jeopardy attaches, and

you won't be able to appeal and i'll acquit the defendant on those grounds. i don't think, and charles is right, you don't know what you're going to get, be careful what you ask for because it could be worse, i just don't think it could be any worse. i think that there's no way, your second question, this was never going to get tried before the election. because judge cannon won't let it happen before. >>, stick around, we've got more to discuss after the break. just days before his criminal trial is set to begin, trump has made an 11 hour bid to disrupt the hush money case, no surprise there. surprise there. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients.

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incorporated, which is an agency that works with democratic candidates. trumps team argues that she is profiting from a political agenda that is hostile to donald trump. this is the second time trump has asked judge merchan to rick recuse himself. his teammate similar arguments citing his daughter's political consulting work for but judge merchan rejected it after seeking guidance from the state courts advisory committee on judicial ethics which did not find a conflict of interest. charles and jill are back with me. trumps argument around a conflict of interest, how do you see this playing out? >> it doesn't. i don't gets going anywhere. i think this is the case it will move forward first as we are anticipating is going to happen. i think judge merchan is going to stay on the case. this issue hadn't been looked at, it had been examined, there is nothing substantively new that will change the outcome, and therefore this is an attempt at, number one, another delay but number two, controlling the narrative and

the public to say, if i end up getting convicted, i had a biased judge, this was rigged from the start. but it's not going anywhere. >> given that judge merchan rejected trumps recusal request last year, why do you think he's doing it again? is it simply a delay tactic, or do you think they have a shot at creating or running enough water to get a recusal? >> for anyone who is paying attention it will not muddy the water. i think charles is right. this is an attempt to reach the public, and to say i'm innocent, and i can only be convicted because i have this unfair judge. there is no merit to it, and it also will not cause much delay. i can't imagine this being an appealable order, and the trial will start promptly in nine days. >> do you think it's a sign, charles, that donald trump is frightened by the beginning of this trial? that these tactics, these attacks, these attempts at

delay reflect a fear that is sitting in among him and his lawyers? >> absolutely. it reflects a level of awareness. if this were judge cannon and he were nine days from trial, this wouldn't be an issue, he wouldn't be trying to move the judge. he's very well aware that this is a jury pool that may not be friendly to him. this is a judge that may not be favorable to him. this is a landscape that is not tilt in his favor, and you're seeing an awareness of that with the level of desperation that you will see, not only now, but also over the coming week as donald trump prepares to engage his first of many criminal trials. >> there was an expanded gag order that was placed on donald trump after he repeatedly went after judge merchan daughter, what consequences could or should he be facing for his constant attack on the daughter of the judge? >> it's not just on the

daughter, it's to stop him from attacking the family of the prosecutors, and of the court, but it's also intended to stop him from intimidating jurors and witnesses, and tainting the jury pool. the consequences, one is laid out specifically and i think it's very clever, judge merchan said, if you keep this up, you will lose your right to know the names of jurors. that's an important loss. it is one that could be imposed without him going to jail because jail is another option. fines don't work, he just asks his followers to give him more money. it doesn't cost him anything. so i don't think fines will work, no one wants to be the judge to put him in jail pretrial, so i think taking away his right to have juror names, which really matters when you're evaluating injury, remember, jury selection starts april 15th. so he can't risk anything like

that. he's going to have to control himself, which we've never seen him do. i hope that he does. >> and that's a tall order, i've got to say. charles, trumps lawyers are arguing that the gag order restrict his ability to engage in protected campaign speech today, he blasted out a series of calling out judge merchan and saying that he is taking away his first amendment rights. break that down for us. the difference between what is considered protected first amendment speech, even if it is political in nature, versus these blatant attacks that we're seeing from the judge against him up from trump against the judge. >> there's a nuance to it, and that's what makes this so unique, you're talking about a person who has, a super bowl amount of influence, and what has happened is that donald trump has already created a certain level of precedent in terms of how the public responds to the attacks that he makes, we saw this with respect

to judge anger and and his law clerk against in the civil trial, against letitia james and the ag's office. the fact that his words has the type of power that they do make a different argument as opposed to saying this is purely political speech. not just that, there's also an important president that's set in d.c. with the fact that there's already a gag order there. the fact that that has been in place and donald trump has continued to push the limits and the boundaries and try to put pressure if you will does not bode well with anyone buying his political speech argument because of the fact that every time he's been given a certain amount of leeway, he's gone past it. to a problematic degree. >> i would say jack smith has made it a point in several of his comments where he said we recognize he has first amendment rights and we let him speak, but this crosses the line in the way he's spoken about these issues. thank you to the both of you, greatly appreciate it as

always. next up, trump says he is all about law and order, why does he see the january 6th rioters as hostages? as hostages? sound like you? nah...not me. in a relationship. if you're sexually active and unvaccinated, it could still be you. i'm too old if you're under 45, you're not. for most people, hpv clears on its own. but for those who don't clear the virus, it can cause certain cancers. wow... gardasil 9 is a vaccine given to adults through age 45 that can help protect against certain hpv-related cervical, vaginal, vulvar, anal, and certain head and neck cancers, such as throat and back of mouth cancers, and genital warts. gardasil 9 doesn't protect everyone and doesn't treat cancer or hpv infection. these diseases may have many causes. your doctor may recommend screening for certain hpv-related cancers. routine cervical cancer screenings are still needed. you shouldn't get gardasil 9 if you're allergic to the vaccine, its ingredients, or yeast. tell your doctor if you have a weakened immune system,

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that grievance, however false, fundamental to the maga strategy and the centerpiece of trump's re-election campaign. more than 1300 people have been charged in the january 6th attack. 900 have been convicted, 500 incarcerated. it is worth noting that many took plea deals. those who have admitted their own guilt or have been found guilty due to overwhelming evidence cannot, by definition, be called hostages. so let's take a look at who trump could be referring to with this ongoing gripe. according to nbc news reporting just 15 people are currently in pretrial custody. 15. and for good reason. here's a sample. there's shown here in a red jacket, shoving law enforcement outside the capital. he avoided arrest until last month when he was charged and detained for allegedly firing a gun during the attack. federal prosecutors called his conduct mind numbingly dangerous, saying there were no

conditions of release that could protect the community. they noted that he extensive criminal history, which includes five convictions. he also fatally stabbed a man in self-defense months after he was first identified to the fbi. you have daniel ball, who through an explosive into a capital tunnel packed with officers. the photo shows the moment of that explosion. one officer says they temporarily lost hearing after the incident. another described having a hearing impairment that lasted months. ball was also previously convicted on two counts of battery against police in cases unrelated to january 6th. there is, of course, edward kelly, arrested in may 2022 after the fbi identified him as the fourth writer to breach the capital. they say kelly broke a window, went through it, then forced open a door, allowing the first mass of rioters to flood the building. he was released several months later but was rearrested after

plotting to murder fbi investigators. according to trump, these guys, the ones that i just listed, unbelievable patriots. but as reagan appointed judge who oversaw january 6th case wrote earlier this year, the rioters jeopardize the american constitutional order. this was not patriotism. it was the end of thesis of patriotism. a new hour of ayman starts after this quick break. i know what it's like to perform through pain. if you're like me, one of the millions suffering from pain caused by migraine, nurtec odt may help. it's the only medication

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