every way. i do not think our grief has to be a negative thing. my grief is my superpower. my ability to tell the truth and my ability to be transparent. as i tell my truth i free other people to tell their truth in their grief process. grief proc. process, i free other people to tell the truth in their grief process. people do not want to be apologized. most of us are grieving for the right reasons. we're grieving because the thing that happened to us is not fair. that's why i say at the intersection of grief and justice. and not just grieving the loss of a child but grieving not having justice in the wake of this terrible thing that has happened. there is superpower in grief g and i want people to know that. what a strong and powerful message. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> that will do it for me. thank you for watching. alex will be back next saturday

and sunday. next, msnbc prime weekend. welcome to primetime weekend. i'm nicolle wallace. cabinet would have all the best people. >> the best and the finest. >> we will have the best people in the world. >> the voters believed him. promises to surround himself with the best people. we will let the extremely high turnover rate. the disgraced ex-president eyes and other term. expect the definition of the

best people to have changed. now simply the undying loyalty. take what he did at the rnc installing his daughter-in-law. to leave the rnc with the model. if trump does win back the white house. he will fill his administration with people who share his every impulse and goals of an anti- democratic extremist policy agenda. people like jeffrey clark. been flooded from the attorney general. a former doj official after the 2020 election. going to overthrow the results. efforts could land clark in legal hot water as he is moments away from being disbarred. politico reports eight disciplinary panel in washington has found that jeffrey clark violated the rules for lawyers in an attempt to aid donald trump's bid to support the 2020 election.

the preliminary ruling jump starts the process that could lead to suspension or permanent revoking of clark's license to practice law. paul manafort is a convicted felon eventually pardoned by donald trump, now rumored to be in the running to be campaign advisor. an architect of the heinous policy and insurrection enthusiasts. he has plans to focus on quote antiwhite racism and would likely play a key role in a second trump white house. the guardian takes another look at a potential front-runner for something big. rick grinnell currently running a shadow foreign-policy campaign alarming experts. served as a rambunctious ambassador to germany and acting director of national intelligence. carved a niche as an -- articulated in chief to global

maga affairs echoing his political masters voice. policy and arms-control specialist told the guardian there are many aspects to what he is doing. one is gripped. looking for business deals, particularly in serbia where trump has long-standing business interest income seems to be helping him pursue this. another is more sinister. grinnell is said to be building up a network of right-wing leaders to authoritarian access that trump might governed by ranging from putting to others. antidemocratic forces and uses the simple playbook of using democracy to overthrow democracy. going to start out with our favorite reporters and friends. however republicans employees reshaping america. plus msnbc jupiter charlie sykes is back.

assisting in attorney general for national security at the justice department, mary mccord is here. new york times investigator. got some reporting on one of the folks that we just mentioned. what a start with you and the failure to take this all in. you hear he's got an affinity for autocrats. he really likes or bond. but grinnell puts more behind it . trump gets away with more than a normal politician because he is viewed as hapless and distracted. he has folks working on this stuff all day every day.

>> yeah. i think one of the biggest challenges that those of us who would prefer not to have a second trump administration have is that the first administration happened. it wasn't great. but it didn't and in permanent authoritarian rule in the united states. not everyone who works in the first trump administration was a maga authoritarian. plenty of normal republicans and generals that trump appointed . second term will not look like that. the first time around trump did not think he was going to win. none of the republican institutions, places like the heritage patient felt that he was going to win. so they needed to come up with lists of people that he could hire. second time around, they are doing that work. first time around, trump didn't know anyone in washington. he did not know who to hire. now he knows who his loyalists are. that's who he's going to appoint to the bench. the second term you will be looking at a much more effective authoritarian regimes in the first term.

>> goes beyond more effective people moving towards authoritarianism all the people that were so far right that they were distasteful to many people in the center and everyone on the centerleft. none of them are in. you have that so bad that mike pence, his former vp, is not voting for him and neither are any of the other people who served in his cabinet. it's all relative, right? who will choose between a republican and democrat review will choose a republican so repulsive to his former vice president that he will not vote for him for the first time in american political history. >> and you are the same things from his former national security advisor, chiefs of staff, his former defense secretary. it is interesting looking back at 2017. the original trump administration actually was staffed with a lot of norm he republicans. a lot of people who are very conventional. i think that his inner circle decided that's the reason that he did not succeed more, that

he did not surround himself with a chemical loyalist. the people like rick purnell, stephen miller. that's the big difference. doesn't want any of the conventional or mike pence in the world. he wants people who will do his bidding. rick grinnell is basically a jumped up internet troll, tv personality. the fact that he was acting director of national intelligence, just the most remarkable thing. if you would have said this 10 years ago, does somebody like rick purnell, will become architect of domestic policy including the policies on the board. exactly the kinds of people you want the levers of power. these are the kinds of people

who will bring back in a second trump term. >> there was some incredible investigative work done by the select committee. on the sort of endgame strain that trump but on haskell and other lifelong national security act hurts. to charlie's point, you did not have all of the agencies run by cash hotels. and rick grinnell. they were there, but they were not running the cia, running the pentagon. in a second trump term, they would be. the clash of values and cultures wants to protect america's role in democracy. they are promising to do on day one. >> that's so scary about this. as ian laid out, they are the most extreme people. not the people that were in the

first trump administration. there were a lot of good people who thought actually that they could sort of the government in the rails and keep the government institutions and protect institutions and abide by norms and the rule of law. one trump realized though, you won't do my bidding, then he got rid of them. we should be worried here. people are thinking how bad could it be? points to positions in his cabinet. they will have to be confirmed by the senate. putting aside for the moment that both houses of congress have quite a bit of their own term and -- turmoil and polarization. trump towards the second half of his first administration said to heck with getting my nominees confirmed. i will just abuse the acting process. the vacancies to reform act and just said to appoint acting. people said i like atkins basically because i can get rid of them if i do not like what

they are doing. there won't be much of a check. we will see the most extreme people. remember the very beginning of his patient, he appointed my point is national security advisor. my plant did not make it more than a few months because he lied to the fbi about the conversations he was having for those within russia's government about things. we will be taking things after mr. trump would become president. with that result in trump firing mike flint? i don't think so. anything else we have to worry about besides the leaders of departments and agencies including national security agencies is what he is promising to do to the civil service. get rid of people who are not willing to be loyalists. that's got to be very concerning, too. >> when he wrote the tell-all

and went to extraordinary lengths to keep from being published. he wrote about concerns that he had that i believe he shared with bill barr about the potential that u.s. foreign policy as it pertains to turkey was corrupted by u.s. business interests. in a second trump term, there would be no guardrails on the mixing of u.s. policy and commercial business. i think a lot of people worry. the story you shared when we broke in and put this into the mix. the plan by jared kushner and his business partners to redevelop a prize location in serbia's capital echoes interests from trump a decade ago. pursuing a deal for the site with a similar proposal pushed during the white house term. rick grinnell, which trump had appointed in the balkans had a special plan during the trump administration that serbia and the united states work to rebuild the defense ministry site. he argued in favor of using

american investments to transform the belgrade site while still serving in his official capacity as an american diplomat in 2020. according to transcripts and remarks he made during several news conferences, it is harder to get out. the reporting is extraordinary because it does just that. talk about this story and the co-mingling of official diplomatic roles in the way that you present yourself around the world and business deals. >> it was quite striking. first you have donald trump when he was a private citizen before running for president. when he expressed an interest in building a hotel in the center of belgrade, that plan did not come to fruition. when rick grinnell was working as a special envoy to serbia, he then made a proposal to redevelop the exact same site. that did not happen. now that they are in the private sector, he is working

with jared kushner and yet again, on the same site, they are building a hotel. private citizen trump proposing a hotel at one place. rick grinnell while a diplomat, proposing that the u.s. redevelopment that site. now meeting with jared kushner. government to the private sector again. and what you have there is folks from the justice department pressuring a prosecutor to drop a case against a state owned bank when president trump was in office. the u.s. attorney in new york tried to resist that. but no one was pressuring him to intervene from pursuing the case against the bank attorney.

the justice department was frustrated with the u.s. attorney. you had a government official urging trump to intervene with the justice department. that happened in the first administration. it is to be seen how this plays out if in fact he goes back to the white house. there is a co-mingling of duties that raises questions that we've been examining over time. >> when we come back, our next guest has an message for anxious democrats everywhere. calm down. why simon rosenberg is very optimistic about president biden's reelection prospects. e >> tech: at safelite, we'll take care of fixing your windshield. but did you know we can take care of your insurance claim? that means less stress for you. >> woman: thanks. >> tech: my pleasure.

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the splendor and glory of american elections are not won or lost based on poles or ponderings. they are not decided by what passes as conventional wisdom among the country's political class. elections come down to what you do at the ballot box on election day, period. a whole lot of time and energy and money goes into prognosticating and predicting what you're going to do on election day. none of us knows. nobody. that's why i do not spend a lot of time on poles. exhibit 1a, a year and a half ago, 2022 midterms and we were told by all kinds of people that president joe biden was too unpopular in the polls and voters were eager to signal a different direction and so this happened. >> are we looking at one of the biggest red waves in american history? >> red wave rising. >> we could see things

happening in america we've not seen in decades with a historic roadway. >> predictions of a red wave are accurate. >> i think it's going to be like the elevator doors opening up on the shining. >> you are about to see a red wave that makes the day after tomorrow look like nothing. >> number that disaster movie, that's the red lives in amidala, sure. >> is it going to be a red wave, a red tsunami? i think it will be a red hurricane. >> i'm feeling red wave. >> if there's not a red wave, i will dance, how about that? >> that guy dancing and the third person, the head of the rnc. it never happened. there was no wave. like a couple of drops. democrats maintained control of the senate. republicans gained a narrow sliver of majority in the house, one that has diminished further since the day. perhaps it's healthier the question the consensus, common

consensus, the polls. the latest available poland, 215 days before the election, is suggesting that donald trump will handily defeat joe biden. during our conversation, democratic strategist simon rosenberg sees those polls that shamelessly predicted what we just described and is similarly optimistic about joe biden's reelection chances heading into november. we are also joined by msnbc political analyst. john is still with us. tell us your philosophies about polls and protections. >> it's great to be here with the great panel, as well. i love the introduction. i will have to steal it for my own work. it was really good. my take on where things are right now is that joe biden is

a good president. the country is better off. the democratic party is strong and win elections all across the country and they have trump, the ugliest political thing we have ever seen. we have the ability as analyst to not just be guided by single polls. there are a lot of things we look at to determine the strength of a candidacy or a political party. money being raised, quality of the candidate, strength of the argument. team, track record, all those things. you've been part of this. when i look at everything and put it all together i see in 2020 fourth that i would much rather the us them them seven months out because joe biden as i said will have a strong record to run on and i don't know how you dress up trump and make him look like a serious presidential candidate in 2024. >> so much of what people used to sort of create the bubbles in which they exist and on the biden coalition side exists to have some anxiety about the fate of our democracy.

this conventional wisdom that enough people will say oh, but the economy. oh, but i don't like the culture , the basket of culture issues that are associated. and the right is obsessed with culture issues. they are obsessed with policies as they pertain to trans kids and trans athletes. they are obsessed with disinformation around the biden economy, and it is so hardwired and then land into their base that i think it creates almost boomerang anxiety on the other coalition. how do you quell that or try to refocus that on the structural dynamics of the election? >> i think you have to remember since trump became maga in 2017, they've had four good elections in a row. we won in 2020, did far better than expected in 2022, did well in 2023. as strong as 2018 and 2020 were, they were remarkable

performances, but what has happened has been in some ways were remarkable. i think something broke in the republican party when dobbs happened. for a lot of republicans it was just too far, too much. the party had become too dangerous. what you've seen in election after election going back to spring of '22 is democrats over performing expectations and underperforming expectations. throughout the battleground in 2022 and throughout the country in 2023. you're seeing it play out in early 2024. i think the democrats have to stay focused here. a big chunk of our coalition is wondering right now. have to go get them and bring them home. that's what the campaign is for. what i and a lot of others in the campaign believed is that once the general election came and our voters understood that it was really biden in trouble, our coalitions start to come

home. the polling in the last few weeks i would argue has shown that democrats are improving their standing. biden is now ahead for 16 separate polls in the last few weeks. has turned much more blue in the last two weeks. i think we are gaining ground right now. we are seven months out, i feel good about where we are. i would much rather the us and them. i think to selling trump 2024 it's going to be a lot harder than selling trump in 2016 or 2020. >> you and i are old. we are old but we've been doing this a long time. >> formally young. >> we were once young. i had this conversation with a friend who said i thought i knew what i thought about the selection but biden's state of the union was something. it made me realize that he can be great. i don't know what party he is

in. businessperson. very moderate i think and probably has voted for members of both parties in the past. it made me excited. reminded me that election performances matter. that the rituals of elections matter. the moment will matter. it just sort of restored my faith in the fact that none of us has any idea what's going to happen. simon, who i've known for a long time and had so many conversations with over the years and has always been a wise course of perspective on things has been a writer. in a lot of cases, he has been right about things when others were absolutely certain they would go the other way and a lot of those people were democrats.

gnashing their teeth. i would never know what's going to happen except for this. i will be surprised if simon or cornell -- he knows more about numbers than i do for sure. simon has studied this-a very deep way. i would be really surprised if anybody here does not think that today this is a margin of error race. hundred percent right. a lot of people would say if they had a card to choose which hand to play in the election, i would rather play bindings and then trumps hand. but there's a lot of work to do for democrats. i think democrats who think that trump is unelectable, that would be a huge mistake for democrats to make. i think people do understand there is a war going on in israel. is a lot of disappointment along a lot of democratic base voters. the time is right. that's what campaigns are for. it's a winnable election, no doubt about it.

we will still be in the margin of error. i will be surprised if cordell or simon thinks this will be a walkaway election for joe biden were democrats have nothing to worry about. >> cornell. >> we don't have walkaway elections in the united states unfortunately. but the idea that trump is going to do better this time than he did the last time just is not point to that. but to the broader conversation, i am a pollster. we should stop talking about polls. and on television. i wrote this in the l.a. times last month. his conversational polls. they are not crystal balls. >> campaign standpoint. simons point, all i candidate

wants is a good story to tell. to have a better story to tell that my opponent? i think when you lay this out, biden does have a better story to tell than donald trump. if you look at it from an issues standpoint, where has donald trump improved positioning of republicans? you know they are not well positioned on abortion. even on their issue of immigration. middle america is not where they are. -- 6% of americans say immigrants contribute more than they take away. from a positioning standpoint, they are not very well positioned. >> when we come back, remember when a disgraced ex-president told presidents not -- americans not to believe what they see with their own eyes and only to believe him. millions of his supporters continue to do just that making it a challenge for anyone who

trades in truth and fact. when we come back, a message for those from supporters. sup. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

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stick with us. don't believe the crap you see from these people, the big news. just remember what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening. >> seared in my mind when he said that. don't believe your eyes or ears. just me. something desperately pleaded dozens and dozens of times for his followers to just believe him over what they see with their own eyes and hear with their own ears. the facts and e e ex- president's lies. in a new column, this editor writes back to readers in ohio, the ones who are angry with or confused by his papers coverage of trump. he writes this.

i feel for those who write. they believe in trump and want their local news source to recognize what they see in him. this is not subjective. trust your eyes. combine january 6th once the most serious threat to our system of government since the civil war. you know that. you saw it. the facts involving trump are crystal clear and does news people, we can't pretend otherwise, as unpopular as that might be with a segment of our readers. there are not two sides to facts. people say the earth is flat don't get space on our platforms. if that offends them, so be it. we're joined by chris. i saw this. it stuck out to me. it made my heart swell and they wonder how it was received. >> it was received in a much better way than i ever asked acted. i prepared for a weekend. i

thought i was going to be eviscerated through easter weekend. immediately, the opposite happened. i've never had a reaction like this. the most emails i've gotten in response to a column was roughly around 300. i met 1850 and it's still coming in a torrent. and it's overwhelmingly in support. it's around the globe. i've heard from croatia, and there will -- new zealand, all over europe. a whole lot of things. i've never had this much in the way of well wishes in my entire career. it's kind of affirming that there is hope. that people might be ready to move on from this nightmare we've been living. >> tell me what some of them said. >> thank you. so many of them say hey, just want to say thank you. there are a bunch with military experience or who are descended from fathers, grandfathers who

fought in world war ii. i did mention in this column some of the parallels to what happened in 1930s germany based on a new book that's out. lincoln -- looking at 1932. pointing out that back and enablers in government helped give rise to hitler. much the same way we have enablers in the government today. i heard from a lot of veterans who said yes, exactly, this is what my dad her grandfather father died for and we can't let that be trampled now. we cannot have the same kind of thing take place on american soil. >> trumps efforts to delegitimize the media are some of his earliest read he first started calling the press enemies of the people during his first run in '16. to hear your defense of the truth was met with largely positive feedback suggests that maybe people are tired of that. or do you think it means there

are more of us that want the truth? what do you think it means? >> i think there's a difference in the way people treat the national versus the regional media. the relationship we have in a regional newsroom like the one we have in cleveland, there's a lot of communication errors. i got in the area of 36,000 text and emails from readers last year. there is a lot of communication. while they say they do not trust the media, they do come to us for local sports, local news. they feel -- i do not believe that trump has been successful in undermining a lot of that. we are a thriving newsroom, unlike many in the country. the people of greater cleveland do trust us. we have a good relationship. this is way beyond cleveland in the end. all over the united states and the world. i wish i understood why this resonated.

i don't really feel like we said anything we have not said before. but this just touched a nerve. i wish i understood it. i tried to do it every week. >> i want you to bottle it and send it to me. what advice do you have for the national media? >> well, luck, i think what people really want to see us do is hold people to the truth. we've got a bunch of people in congress still denying what we all saw. we know what happened. it's incontrovertible. yet, they say that it didn't. when i hear from the people that are running is please make them accountable for that. if they're not going to speak the truth. if they're not going to stand for the values that we all have in this country, call them out. we have a senate race in ohio. now where there is a guy running and his whole patch -- pitch is i will be the truck -- puppet for donald trump. we have two guys who never

would have stood for what's been going on the last four years. and the people that are writing want to get back to where their politicians had the integrity to do the right thing no matter what the consequences are. >> a fair amount of their politicians, they want to be mad about their stuff, not someone carrying someone else's stuff. that used to be all over. i want to ask you. we can continue to call on you and sort of trade notes. i think there's a lot to learn from just you leveling with your readers. i hope we can continue with this conversation. >> i'd be happy to. thanks for having me on. it's a pleasure to talk to you. >> thank you. the pleasure is all ours. when we come back, more on this unprecedented new climate of threats that hover every day over the justice system. these funds follow the incendiary rhetoric of an american ex-president. a federal judge, esther solis, whose son was murdered by a gun man, who argued a case before

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as i was walking, something didn't feel right and i noticed a car was out of place and i remember looking and he looked and we locked eyes for a second and then he just looked away, and i would later find out that would be the man that would come next at 5:00, ring our doorbell and take my only child. he went down to the desk and paid for three more nights. i remember saying to the agent, what you think he did that? he looked at me stone cold and said ma'am, he's going to kill you and stay long enough to get the job done. >> everything about that interview is with me every day that i sit in his chair. that was of course u.s. district judge esther solis.

we had a conversation on the program last year. the unimaginable tragedy of her son's murder in 2020 at the hands of an aggrieved former lawyer. four years later, judge solis is back speaking out today at a moment when the presumptive nominee of one of the two major political parties in our country is targeting the child of another judge. in one of his cases. it's a pattern for donald trump, one that he has ramped up dramatically since leaving the white house and the dozens of lawsuits in the cascade of litigation that he faces. during which time, routers is reporting serious work threats against federal judges alone more than doubling. we are joined by u.s. district court judge for the district of new jersey esther solis. they keep coming back. >> thank you for having me. >> what would you imagine it's like for judge marchand to see his daughter attacked oliver social media? >> i think as a sitting judge, i want to be very careful not

to talk about an active case, but i can tell you what it's like for me. and what it's been like. yesterday was easter. i had to celebrate it without my son. you know. and so i say, you know, i cannot imagine what goes through any parents had when you think that something you did, the job that you chose cost the life of my only child. that's a reality i've got to live with. and you know, i do my best to remember that daniel was so proud of his mom. and i do my best to remember that i am doing my son justice by continuing to advocate for better security. we've made progress, i want to say. it's the last time we've talked to you, 16 states have enacted laws that are shielding more

than three pieces of aspects of the personally identifiable information. 19 other states have enacted laws not shielding as much but it is a start. we've got six states with pending legislation. maryland and new york, we are really optimistic about that and we have 13 states and territories that we've worked with. we're making progress. that's what i want to encourage you and everyone watching that light will overcome darkness. positivity. if we stay positive if we are mindful of the way we treat each other, i believe it is contagious. i believe that we can do things to make this a better place to live. >> do you still believe -- and i feel i know what you are going to say, do you still believe in the rule of law? >> i do. >> do you think it is in danger right now? >> you know, i worry about it. i'm not going to lie to you. i worry about democracy. i worry that if we allow these threats to go unchallenged, if we do not work together, there

are laws, bipartisan laws pending now. we are seeing our leaders work together. the numbers are just shared with you, we are seeing state legislators working together. it works. there's no greater country. i always say this. in the proud daughter of cuban and mexican parents. only in america, right? for me, i do believe in the rule of law and i do believe that we need to protect it and guard it and we need to remind each other constantly what is at stake. but i also think that we need to have faith. >> i want to ask how we do that. do you mind if we sneak in a quick break and we can get your secret sauce? >> sure. >> all right. quick break and we will be right back. right back. sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients.

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so tell me where your faith and optimism comes from. i know we talked about this a little bit. i know it comes from your son. but when you see the wheels grind, and it feels so slowly, where does your faith come from and how do you focus on the achievements and the positive progress? >> you said it. it comes from my son. it comes from everything he gave up so that mark and i could continue to live our lives and we love life. he did not sacrifice his life so i would wonder mine. i'm not going to say that i'm always upbeat and optimistic, but i try. for me it's my god and my faith that help me move forward, never on, but forward.

and i think the good that i see, none of the courts, a lot of things that are not covered. there's a lot of the naturalization ceremonies, officiating of her weddings. i run a recovery court where have seen people turn their lives around from being attic to now you know, successful individuals that want to pay it forward at sober houses and helping other people who are mired in addiction. there is so much good that we are doing. so i see it every day. and i know that indians, we are beautiful people and we are meant to love one another. and i am mindful of that feeling that i get when i speak kind words over main ones. want to do something just to make someone feel better. you know, i love the saying that you can be right or kind. always choose kindness. all those things that are sort of uplifting as opposed to when us down. i'm wearing a love is light

necklace. anytime i get really caught up, i just touch it and i remember hate is heavy, love is light. you know. it's late. i feel lighter. >> how do you spread that over the country? >> you know, i'm trying necklace by necklace. and i'm trying just to -- whenever possible -- remind people. when daniel was murdered, we received hundreds if not thousands of letters from people all over the country and beyond. people did not know us. i have to say even yesterday i received a text from a friend who was in church any town i've never heard of and they mentioned daniel and he mentioned saying a prayer for our family. that's humanity. that's the love. that's the connection. >> you have to think, i imagine every day, about what daniel would be doing if he was here now. what do you think you would be

doing? >> i think it would have definitely been a lawyer. and i think he would be fighting the fight. he loved to take me on. >> you think you would be in politics? >> he had the personality. in the looks, you know. but what i loved about daniel was his kind heart. he always -- he was worried. when the killer run our doorbell, he was downstairs telling me how worried he was that two of his friends were fighting. and he didn't want to have to pick between his two friends. >> that's what he was talking about? >> that's what he was talking about. don't want to have to choose. what am i going to do? i love those moments. his last words were mom, keep talking to me. i love talking to you. i kind of think doing this right now, talking to you, talking to people that will talk about that security. talking about people that want to help is my way -- don't make me cry -- is my way of talking

to daniel. >> this has been primetime we can. i am nicolle wallace. please tune into deadline white house and all of our prime time shows weekdays on msnbc. do you want to close out? should i? normally i'd hold. but... taking the gains is smart here, right? feel more confident with stock ratings from j.p. morgan analysts in the chase app. when you've got a decision to make... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management. try killing bugs the worry-free way. not the other way. zevo traps use light to attract and trap flying insects with no odor and no mess.

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good evening, and welcome to politics nation. tonight's lead, back to business.