. tom gets the last word. the 11th hour starts now. tonight with just days to

go until jury selection the hush money case donald trump is working overtime to delay the trial. we will get into all the day's legal developments. and then donald trump dodges on a national abortion ban as the biden campaign releases a powerful new ad. and the president's new student debt relief plan. what it means for student borrowerx presidential ers and the presidential election. good monday evening. i'm live from new york city. we are now 211 days away from the election. tonight special counsel jack smith filed his brief to the supreme court as it prepares to hear arguments about trump's claims of presidential immunity. smith argues that even if the justices decide presidents do have some level of immunity for

certain acts the prosecution should still go ahead with the election interference case. as of this moment trump's first criminal trial the new york hush money case is set to start one week from today. you can believe that? you will believe that trump's lawyers are pulling out all the stops to try to make sure that doesn't happen. trump's team argued today that the case should be delayed while they fight for a change of venue and fight against trump's partial gag order. less than two hours after that the judge denied the motion. we have seen this before from his team. his attorneys tried these same late change of venue tactic last year to delay the civil fraud trial. an appeals court refused to delay the trial and slapped down the request. there are huge questions tonight around the $175 million bond trump posted to appeal the civil fraud case. according to the daily beast

the contract said that trump would pay the money if he loses the appeal, not the company itself. every expert out there says that the company -- that this completely negates the entire reason why someone would secure a bond in the first place. on top of that the report said that the little known company that provided the bond is not even licensed in the state of new york. with that let's get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel tonight. don allen is here, senior national politics reporter for nbc news. katie for the new york times and former new york prosecutor and civil rights attorney charles coleman. charles, you are here with me so you get the first question. what do you make of jack smith's brief tonight? it seems like he is getting emotional almost. >> i think that he is responding in a very strong manner to the idea of blanket presidential immunity. i think that you pointed out one of the strongest parts of his brief where he gave the supreme court an out to

basically say, look, you do not need to rule unversely that the president may not have any sort of immunity regarding criminal acts while in office or criminal charges. in this case when you talk about a private actor who worked with private individuals to create a private outcome that absolutely cannot stand. so i think that carve out that he did was great. it'll give the supreme court enough breathing room where they may not have to rule entirely against trump. i think they will rule against him but this was the icing on the cake that i think made them -- going to give them enough room to find -- to find for jack smith in a way that everybody can live w. >> i would largely agree with that. i think the question of if this was in -- the scope of trump's duties when he was president. the idea he was seeking out

election fraud. you know, what's so interesting is we saw at the district court level the judge didn't want to rule on that question at all. i think that we can expect at the hearing in a couple of weeks to hear the supreme court justices ask a lot of questions about whether or not this was in the scope of trump's duties. again to charles's point what jack smith is saying is let's not argue about presidential immunity but the acts on the table and if you want to stop the peaceful transfer of power that is against what it means to be president of the united states. one thing the court could do that would slow this down is send that question back to judge at the district court level setting off another wave of decisions and potential appeals. >> let's talk about the hush money case. that is set to kick off next week. today the judge sent both parties a letter about how jury selection will work. anything stick out to you?

>> you know a couple of things. first again, this idea that the jury is going to remain anonymous to everybody but the counsel, but the lawyers and the defendant is still extraordinary to me that this is the sort of measure that one has to take in new york. generally speaking you see this happen in gang cases where the jurors could be threatened, where they feel they could be at risk for participating in our system of -- our legal system. that's quite extraordinary. then again the sorts of questions. you know this push back that new york cannot be impa rt ial. it's so clear this is not the issue. you can have a very blue democratic area of the country and still find 12 people who are qualified to serve on the jury. you don't see the justice department saying we don't want the documents case to happen in florida because florida is a state that leans red. it is really saying we have no faith in the legal system that we can't find 12 jurors.

again, this strong motion thing. we can find the jurors and we will have to ask them a lot of sensitive questions about their feelings about trump. whether or not they participated in any extremist groups. charles, at what point will trump's lawyers run out of ways to try to push this trial? like do you think it's starting -- are you and i going to be sitting here next monday night talking about what went down in court? >> i think there's a strong chance of that. >> you're saying there's a chance. >> i think there's an important thing and with that i have to take a point of personal privilege. right here in this chair i talked about -- it's a little bit of a flex. i talked about how a change of venue motion was likely coming way become when the indictment first dropped and here we are. even though the motion to delay the trial was denied they are still arguing for a change of venue and that could be something that -- we could see

a delay. he is running out of different ways to try to delay this thing. i wanted to speak about this idea of jury selection and the judge's letter. >> after you did that i told you so dance. >> yeah. jury selection is one of the most important parts of any trial. 70% if not higher of your trial is won and lost with respect to your ability to pick a jury. what the judge did with that letter that stuck out to me that is really important is that he said look, for any juror who self identities themselves as unable to serve we aren't going to interview them. what that does is that significantly cuts down the amount of time that is going to take to pick a jury. you are talking about a former president, finding a fair and impa rt ialy is not easy. when you are talking about people that already don't want to be involved don't want to go to jury duty if he is already decided we're not going to interrogate those people

regarding the reasons. he is being very serious about cutting the fat and getting directly to the people who will be here and you will have to make decisions. that is a very big deal. >> you starting with let's do this. trump seems to like to go to court. he goes into court, does his rally on the steps. will this time be different? he care s deeply about his image and now he will be in a courtroom with his dirty laundry being dragged out. >> the emotional direct of sitting sitting there for six weeks and having his dirty laundry air is the something i don't know anyone knows how he will react to. we know that he lashes out when he is angry. we know they lashes out when he is uncomfortable and one of the other things we know about

donald trump is that this is the kind of trial -- this particular one that probably gets at him the most. this idea he will be out there embarrassed in public. not just minute by my but for the news coverage of this over the course of, again, six weeks of sitting there and listening to the most salacious details of his life. i will be in new york next monday. i don't bet on the over, under on it starts monday f . if it doesly be there. i don't think we have seen anything quite like this in terms of a former president or one who -- to your point, cares so much about his image. i think, you know, of everything that he is facing is the most likely to go to trial and to really get it under his skin. >> and the other question is the judge ready? the judge is about to face one of the most challenging defendants in united states history, not to mention every

single eye ball when it comes to people across the country and even on the world stage with what we have seen so far what do you expect to see from him when the trial starts? >> this is a really good question, especially given the fact that trump has now basically said he would love to be put in prison. he said listen i'm going to floud your rules because i want you to put me in jail. whether or not he -- in the end decides he wants to spend a night or two in prison is, you know, we don't know. we can never really know what is going on in his head. he is basically threatened the judge and said i will threaten your authority every step of the way. so, this is going to be in many ways a picture of what's to come if any of these federal cases come to trial. we will see trump under strain. we will see him -- his former allies and people like david of the national inquirer, people who helped him, possibly see their testimony come to court.

we will see people he feels betrayed him. there will be a lot of emotion and he has said he will push the law to its limits and push the court to its limits. i don't know that any judge is actually prepared for that moment. we could see things that we never imagined including donald trump campaigning from a jail cell and it potentially working to his advantage. >> he would like it to or it'll work with his advantage with his base but, remember, he needs a lot more than his base. charles, let's talk about donald trump's bond that he got last week while he appeals in this fraud case. $175million from a company in la. a subprime auto lender. like a payday lender for cars. the way it's supposed to work, the underwriter, this company in la, they pay if trump loses the appeal. when people look at the details today they don't. donald trump would be the one

to pay. so what is the point of this bond to begin with? >> the point was to buy time and get leticia james off his back. what we have seen now that they have gone through the contract. >> a fraudulent contract from kind of a sketchy bond guy for a case that was all about fraud? >> correct. the irony. now donald trump has put leticia james in a careful decision. she has to decide if she wants to undergo a bond source hearing. it means they will go into detail and look at the source that is being provided to establish this bond. if in fact that is done it's not going to help the ag's office from a time perspective because it'll delay that further and further down the road and it'll allow him to do what we wants to do. if she does not make that rule then trump says with this fraudulent contract and allows that to cover the $175 million that is necessary will sustain the bond. he is essentially playing checkers again while other

people are trying to just get an honest answer and hold him accountable. >> all right. so, the guy in la is a subprime auto lender. that's how he got rich. there was a big fundraiser in palm beach co hosted by john paulson who became a billionaire betting against subprime. tell us what went on at this event? you have reporting because trump had a special message just for that billionaire crowd. a much different message than he has at rallies. >> he raised $50 million from a group of 117 people. many of them billionaires and what he told them was that he was promising to keep their taxes low. this is a huge cop tract with joe biden who said he wants to increase taxes on the rich. trump is saying he will get in and extend the trump tax cuts for 2017. you will recall this was -- particularly good tax breaks for many of these billionaires

who have pass through groups. i don't want to get too nerdy with this. you know how the wealthy are able to reduce their tax burden through some of these structures and their businesses. many of them in private equity and in hedge funds were at this dinner with trump and we remember if we look back at recent politics how outrage republicans were that said hillary clinton would go speak to a group of wall street executives and not release a transcript. nbc news asked donald trump's campaign for a transscript. the request was denied. >> raising $50 million is chump change if the message was you will not be paying one dollar more in taxes. things like pass throughs, carried interest will be safe if i'm the next president.

what's extraordinary is you wonder if donald trump's base who care so much about pop lift messages. those same people who judge joe biden for having a fundraiser across the street from us at radio stay music hall. you wonder if they will find out what was said at that party. probably not. they weren't invited. thank you all for starting us off. when we return. donald trump finally clarifies where he stands on abortion and it has angered members of his own party. later joe biden reveals a new plan to help student loan borrowers. the 11th hour just getting started on a monday night. on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack.

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today donald trump revealed his position on abortion or at least his latest position and it is getting bipartisan criticism. garret has all the details. >> tonight after weeks of hints trump weighed in on abortion declining to call for a national ban. instead saying it should be up to states to decide on any restrictions. >> the states will determine by vote or legislation or perhaps both and whatever they decide must be the law of the land. in this case, the law of the state. at the end of the day it's about the will of the people.

>> also stating his own view. >> i'm in favor of exceptions for rape, insect and life of the mother. > >> trump just endorsed every single state ban on reproductive care nationwide. the maga republicans put a federal ban on his desk he would sign it. donald trump is the reason reoe ended. >> while mike pence slammed him for not calling for a national ban saying his retreat is a slap to the face of the million of pro life americans who voted for him in 2016 and 2020. the supreme court with three trump appointed justices struck own roe v. wade in 2022 returning the issue to the states where some now have near total abortion bans. others have no restrictions. >> i was probably the person responsible for the ending of something that all legal scholars, both sides wanted and

in fact demanded be ended. roe v. wade. >> just 36% of americans support the overturning of roe according to a poll and the issue has energized democrats. for trump today announcement is the latest step in a long, public evolution on abortion. >> i'm very pro life. i'm pro life. we will -- both side s will be happy. dan join us us. he is the co host of paws save america. tyra a senior adviser at the lincoln project. you called this position a cop out. i don't even know what the position is. >> well, yeah.

it's -- it's typical word salad from donald trump. he doesn't believe any of it. is he a nilist. so he believes in whatever i need to say to get myself elected what is what is so frustrating for those of us who have principles -- support this guy. he said whatever he needs to say to get elected. the reason why he is coming out -- the smart republicans know that are running his election and campaign this time around recognize that this is a very difficult issue for republicans. it is killer for them, particularly in swing states. they were trying to find a middle ground. you can't. there is so much background where you just saw i'm glad you ran that. you saw trump being inconsistent and also because you are seeing what's happening in these swing states, particularly with republican women who are very uncomfortable with the

republican party taking women's rights back 100 plus years. this is not a secret. we see trump surrounded by these extremists who feel as if women's rights are something that they can play around with and i think that's a very dangerous prospect and they should be concerned about how women will vote in these swing states because that's where the election will be decided. >> isn't it a bunch of none sense that trump just says whatever he wants to say or -- just realitiy republicans that hear about tax cuts. don't pay attention to what he said. then just pay attention to what he does. because roe v. wade was overturned and we are seeing abortion bans in state after state. so what he says is quite dangerous. >> yeah. look, we shouldn't believe anything trump says. we should look at -- we should look at what he does. he said he wanted to punish women. the thing we should pay attention is word salad, whatever you want to call it is

what he didn't say. he didn't say he would not sign a federal abortion ban if it came to his desk. if he gets elected we know that most likely he gets elected a republican senate and house. we know the house is at least -- at this very moment led by someone who has -- one of the most retrograde conservative positions on abortion we know whoever leads in the senate will support a national ban. if that bill comes to his desk he is going to sign t that -- what he is trying to -- too cute by -- whatever, the end result is if trump gets elected a national abortion ban is a very likely outcome and that's why people have to vote against him. >> it was sort of this word salad in a room today where there were reporters were in a position to ask no questions he basically just restated where things currently stand. it's as if his goal here is to take abortion out of the

political conversation but how can he ever do that? at this point his core, most loyal base are white, evanglical christians. they are the people who put him in office who will likely get him back in office. they aren't going to let him be quiet on this issue. >> absolutely. i think that democrats -- position he took today which has been shown by some on twitter and -- some reporters as politically savvy. that's not what he d what he did today was endorse the most extreme abortion bans already passed into law and the most extreme abortion bans that are being proposed anywhere in this country. and so we should call him out on. he wants to take this off the table. he can't and we -- it is going to be -- he will face pressure from the right and also democrats have to call him out on it every time and restate the -- what president biden said in the state of the union

which is if you elect him with a democratic, ro, choice majority he is going to sign a law to restore roe v. wade. that's the choice in this election. >> it wasn't just the state of the union. president biden again today made his feelings very clear in a powerful new ad. i want to share a bit of it. >> one of our little boxes. this is just filled with some of the things we had started gathering for her while i was pregnant. >> yep. >> here is her little baby book. this is the outfit that she was going to maybe wear home from the hospital. all of these. this is -- the blanket that she

was in when they took her little foot prints. >> how is an ad like that going to land with voters? >> that is one of the most powerful ads i have seen the biden campaign put out ever between 2020 and now. >> those types of stories telling the real story telling of americans and families of women who have impacted by these laws is an extremely powerful tool. the journal of american medicine came out and said that 64,000 women who have been -- got pregnant from being raped since these laws have gone into -- into place in these 14 states, 64,000 women and girls are pregnant or pregnant from rape. so in these 14 states this rebeing forced to carry the babies of their rapi st . how

dare the federal government tell or state government tell these woman what to do with their bodies in situations like that? as a former republican we always talked act individual freedom and you are take away that freedom, that agency from women because of what? because you want to install those liberal hundred year old gender roles reversed for what? and this is the part -- this is what republicans are doing. this is who they are supporting. the fact that president biden is making these stories real so the american people fully understand because i'm not quite sure everybody fully understands what the republicans are trying to do here because they are being very careful, they are being very obvious in someplaces but very wiley in others using laws, trying to go back to this project 2025, the com stack act of 1873 and using all of these

strange and old laws to try to take women's health care right away from them. >> okay. >> good for the president for doing this and they need to do more of it. okay. but i want to go back to the point you just made saying trump is being savvy. how? look at an ad like that. tomorrow arizona is going to decide whether to enforce an abortion ban from 1864. it doesn't matter what donald trump told billionaires at a cocktail party over the weekend. you know he wasn't mentioning an abortion ban at that party. he can't possibly thread the needle while these things happening in state after state. >> i mean that's exactly right. that's what we have seen in every election since dobbs in 2022. no matter what the republican position is, if they see leave it to the states, adopt a 15 week ban like they tried to do in virginia in 2023. the same thing happens.

it comes back to the fundamental fact that a supreme court with justices appointed by donald trump took away a right for millions of americans and now they are -- putting in place these bans and they aren't stopping there. they are going after ivf, birth control could be next. nothing trump says or does will change that fact. >> all right. you two stick around. when we come back the president has a new plan to tackle student loan relief for millions of americans but will he get credit for it? we will break it down. symptoms can sometimes take you out of the moment. now there's skyrizi, so you can show up with clearer skin... ...and show it off. ♪ nothing is everything ♪ with skyrizi, you could take each step

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you know we love talking numbers on this show. these ones are huge. during a visit to madison, wisconsin today the president revealed a sweeping new student debt relief plan bringing the total amount forgiven to nearly $150 billion. dan and tara are still here. dan, critics of this have argued this is like buying votes. but those same critics don't say that when he cuts taxes for the super rich or corporate america. what is your reaction? >> i think this is great news. it's evidence that the president is doing everything in his power to full his 2020 campaign promise to help deal with the crushing burden of

student debt. this was a great announcement. they have done a lot of work and relieved billions of dollars. it's a huge step. it's filling a campaign promise. >> tara republicans are savings accounting like voters just don't care about this. when you look at the numbers, 73% of voters support student loan forgiveness and that includes 56% of republicans. is your former party not reading this issue correctly? >> i think that they recognize that for -- the people they need this isn't a big issue. for democrats it's a hugely important to firm up that coalition. they need those voters. it was very smart again of the biden camp to send the president to wisconsin to make this announcement where the president only won by a little over 20,000 votes in 2020. he needs those college students. he needs that 18 to 30-year-old vote to get out there and be

excited to vote for him. it is a campaign promise is he trying to fill and he has been thwarted by legal complications with it. most people don't care about that. politics is about perception. he is trying to make an effort to do this. hopefully that among other issues will inspire that part of the democratic coalition to get out there and vote. that's why he is doing that. republicans, you know, it's no different than the abortion issue. there's a majority of americans who are pro choice but some are going an an extrem agenda. they don't think it matters for the people they need so they try to hide it in fiscal responsibility and all this. i understand certain aspects of that. that is not really what matters here. it's about motivating people to vote and this is a good issue for that vote. >> a way to impact perception is strategic communication. dan, you know this well. whatever donald trump says goes

viral in part because much of what he says is so crazy. at the same time president biden is doing a lot of constructive things to help the american people, to help american consumers. put student debt aside. the president gets blamed for the inflation situation that we are in but millions of voters have no idea all the things that he is trying to do to curb inflation. how does he start to change that? news desert is one thing but from a communication standpoint how december does he get the message out? >> part of this is going to be with paid ads. the. >> good news. he has the money. >> he has the money to do it. it's also strictly for -- the hardest group to reach is younger voters. they are the one who are not consuming news the

traditional way. if it's on tiktok. you will have to -- have targeted advertising but also he will have to empower his supporters, person to person to tell those stories about what he is doing. that is who they are believe. that's who they will trust. that is why they are opening field offices, i think 100 of them open now. they are hiring organizes, recruiting volunteers. the methodern modern way of communication is person to person and that takes time and energy and money and organization and they have all of those things. i know they are working hard to get that going and yesterday -- today's event in wisconsin was the starting gun for that effort on student loans to convince younger voters. >> new topic today. corporate america, portions of it seem open to a donald trump second term because they like tax cuts and deregulation. why do they put no weight in the idea that our democracy is

at risk? a bank ceo kind of scoffed at the idea when i talked about our institutions being at risk. do they not remember he didn't and still doesn't accept the results of the last election? why wouldn't ceo's whose number one job it is to be a risk manager even acknowledge that is a huge risk to our country? if we don't have a functioning democracy you won't have a strong economy. >> i agree and i think people live in a bubble. they think it doesn't impact them. they have the money to leave and go to another country. the rest of us are the ones that will have to save ourselves from the barges on their way to gitmo if trump gets reelected again. it's -- there's so removed from the every day life and impact of what it means. you know i was speaking at an event where i used the example

that democracy is like gravity or oxygen. you don't think about it. it's just out there in the air until you don't have it anymore. i think a lot of these ceo's and people who are -- are in the elite don't think that the institutions are all that at risk because it hasn't impacted them. they have the means to get around whatever is coming. they are like -- they will go along and get along until they think it'll be an advantage to them until it isn't. this is at their own peril and i blame people like this for being the enablers of why this martha our country is going because of people like trump and those around him. they are complicit. they won't be able to escape it if it comes down to this country not having a democracy anymore. good luck with that. >> dan i did have the last question for you but with an answer like that we have to give it to tara. good to see you both.

thank you for being here. when we come back basketball hall of famer nancy lieberman, is here is discuss an epic tournament and what happens after this winning moment for women's sports when the 11th hour continues. allison's plaque psoriasis. she thinks her flaky gray patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis allison! over here! otezla can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for nearly a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts or weight loss.

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carolina claiming a third title over iowa. the game shattered records. many even the gamecocks coach have given katelyn clark the credit for drawing so much attention. >> i want to personally thank katelyn clark for lifting up our sport, hush. she carried -- she cared a heavy load for our sport and it just is not going to stop here on the college tour but when she is the number one pick in the wnba draft she will lift that league up as well. >> i am honored to welcome lady magic herself, two time hall of famer wnba coach and assistant coach nancy lieberman, also on the board of directors at the national basketball retired player's association. you have had one of the most

extraordinary careers in basketball. how do you feel tonight? >> feel excited. first of all thank you so much. i love your energy and excitement for everything we have worked for, for 50 years. i will as well thank my friend katelyn clark for what she has done. you know it's -- it's not only what she did like don said to lift the game up. think about the economic impact she has had, not -- like in iowa its somewhere even, 14 and $52 million this season in all the sell outs. what she did is going to affect the new contract that ncaa president charlie baker will negligent negligent item and the 32 teams that made it to the men's tournament were competing for $220 million in

all that bonus money. the women got 0. okay? that has to be adjusted in the fiscal year of 24-25 because you said it right. 18.7million? do you know what they topped out at? 24million. isn't that great? >> it's incredible. then do you think this will be the tipping point? right because we hear guy's get more resources and the play because they sell out, they have the fans. that's not the case anymore. you just laid out the numbers. can they still make that argument? >> i think that argument is done and over. we have star power in the arena. we had, you know, dawn staley and congratulations to the gamecocks for just a fantastic season. there's juju, right and there's paige beckers and, you know,

there's so many player that -- that are coming after. we are a history of great women and great players. now it's making economic sense because of everything that you just said. you can't say well well you know we just want to be able to do this but. there's no more but. it's an economic fact right now and it's going to be worked in to the collective baring the nba and the w because of some of these stars will bring their celebrity, their power in the workplace economically to the w and they are also going to be able to do that at the ncaa level. we women have power. you know this. every everything in this house is decided by women. the color, the food, what -- where we live. we -- we on a global, you know, in global world it's --

trillions of dollars that women account for. you know the one thing i believe we are 131 year away from economic parity with men. it is pretty sad on that note. >> sad today and tomorrow we change that. nancy, fantastic to see you here tonight. thank you for being here. i appreciate it. >> thank you for being a fan of the game. appreciate it. when we return the great american eclipse. the excitement across the country but as we go to break, something that really excited me. montana's democratic senator john tester was not in the path of the eclipse so he and his wife came up with their own version making due with what they had. one another. look at him.

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you already know what tonight's last thing is. before we go, a total eclipse across america. today, tens of millions of people got a chance to see a once in a generation show. our own lester holt has more. >> reporter: it didn't matter where you were. the reactions were the same.

joyed, all, and wonder. a shared experience for millions of people today who had a front row seat to history on the horizon. >> seeing how it got dark, that was unforgettable. >> i am glad to be a part of something like this. >> reporter: people flocked to the path of totality, wider than it was in 2017 and stretching across 15 states from the pacific to the atlantic. in dallas, al roker. >> there it goes. there are the beads. look at this. look at this. >> reporter: in maine -- >> five, four, three, two, one.

>> reporter: kate snow, surrounded by thousands. >> i've done this once before and i got emotional then and i feel myself getting emotional now. it is just something about it that is so incredibly special. i think it is maybe the commonality, that we are all experiencing one thing at the same time. >> reporter: for others, it marked a new beginning. hundreds of couples exchanged vows in russellville, arkansas, including michelle and randy weller. >> we will always remember our wedding day. >> reporter: despite concerns about the cloudy forecast, the views did not disappoint. >> you can see the bottom corner coming out. there you go. right there on the right. >> reporter: pure magic infecting all of us who paused for a few minutes today and simply looked up. >> all of us together experiencing this one thing togetherness. something we need more of. the