something happened to her, and i got up and gave her a hug. and while i was hugging her, he started screaming at us because we weren't allowed to feel, we weren't allowed to hug and we weren't allowed to help each other. and that's just a terrible feeling for me because one of the hardest things for me was not able to help them and to help keith when they threatened them with the gun or threatened them that they're going to handcuff them or hit them or push them. they pushed keith and they broke his ribs. and they shot him and i was the only one that could look after keith and took care of him. and when they took that girl and she came back and i hugged her, i could see that something happened. >> we want to thank you for your testimony. and thank you for being with us today. "chris jansing reports" starts right now.

hi, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian in for chris janicing in new york city. a historic moment, the first parents in the united states to be held criminally responsible for their child's mass shooting, each sentenced to 10 to 15 years for involuntary manslaughter. the latest from court, including emotional testimony from the families of students killed and what they're still asking for. also this hour, a critical decision on the future of abortion access in one state, that could change the scope of access for millions of women across this country. the arizona supreme court deciding whether to keep a ban on nearly all abortions after 15 weeks or revert back to a civil war era almost total ban. and legal pressure for donald trump, growing by the minute, as his criminal trial gets closer to becoming a reality.

despite nearly daily attempts to delay, the former president is on track to face his first criminal trial on monday. we begin with the historic sentencing in michigan where a judge sentenced both parents of to 10 to 15 years in prison. james and jennifer crumbley separately addressing the judge today and the families who had everything ripped from them. the judge making it clear, their convictions confirm repeated acts or lack of acts that could have halted an oncoming runaway train. that very inaction haunting the parents and loved ones in that courtroom today. >> while your son was hearing voices and asking for help, i was helping madison pick out her senior classes, while you were purchasing a gun for your son and leaving it unlocked, i was helping her finish her college essays, when you were on the phone for ten minutes with each other trying to figure out where

the gun was, i was on the phone with her father and family trying to figure out where she was, when you texted ethan, don't do it, i was texting madison, i love you, please call mom. when you found out about the lives your son took that day, i was still waiting for my daughter in a parking lot. when you asked him why, i was waiting for the answer as to why the last bus never came. when you -- when the police showed up at your house, you didn't understand why they were there. i was asking, please, have they checked every possible location and if i could go search too. >> incredibly emotional day in that courtroom. shaq brewster reporting for us from outside the courthouse in pontiac. also here on set, danny cevallos, msnbc legal analyst. shaq, start us off. i was watching the testimony all throughout the morning.

i cannot imagine what it is like to be those parents in their shoes, reliving that day, once again. walk us through it. >> reporter: yeah, gut wrenching statements you heard from these parents and we're still waiting to get their reaction to this sentence. we didn't see any visible reaction in the courtroom, but right now it sounds like the parents are still in the courtroom talking to the prosecution and then we'll see how they're reacting to the sentence. that sentence coming down in the past hour or so, the judge sentencing the two parents, now convicted and sentenced of four counts involuntary manslaughter. the judge convicting or sentencing them to 10 to 15 years behind bars. when it is all said and done, when you count in the formulas there, you'll see them behind bars for a period of about 7 to 8 years because in the state of michigan, you usually serve about two-thirds of the sentence. and they'll be getting credit for time served. and the judge explaining that this is not about bad parenting, she dismissed the arguments that

you heard from james and jennifer crumbley as they spoke and addressed the court and those families in that courtroom and the judge said, the sentence is not about bad parenting, instead, she said, it is about related acts that could have halted a runaway train. she later said, it is about repeatedly ignoring things that made a reasonable person feel the hair on the back of their neck stand up. and that sentence came after that emotional testimony, those emotional victim impact statements from the parents of the four victims. i want you to listen to a little bit more of what we heard in that courtroom. >> it is fair to say that i live every day with pain, anger, heartache, regret, anxiety, stress, you name it. they are all there, wreaking havoc in my once normal life. >> the murder has destroyed a large portion of my soul.

i've said these words before, it is still the truth, i remain a shell of the person i used to be. i think of her and miss her constantly. every day is a battle to attempt to move forward. >> reporter: we know that as some of those statements were being read, james crumbley became emotional, he was wiping away tears. we saw jennifer crumbley look down, not look at the parents as they were talking. >> shaq brewster for us, thank you, shaq, appreciate it. let's walk through this decision here. 10 to 15 years, the range. give me your reaction, if this is what you expected, why the range? >> first, it is exactly what the people, the state of michigan, the prosecutors were asking for. so they got what they wanted, which was a sentence above the guidelines. and there is some real significance to that. the sentencing guidelines both in the federal system and in michigan really tries to

calculate what would be a fair sentencing range, but the thing is, it is not mandatory. so a judge can go above those guidelines and think about it, if you're a judge, you don't necessarily want to be overturned on appeal, the safe thing to do is sentence within the guidelines. it is a real statement by a judge to say that i think these facts warrant a sentence that is above the guidelines. what the people had asked for. so, the 10 to 15 years is the minimum before they can possibly start talking about parole. 15 years being the maximum, not the statutory maximum, the sentence maximum, that's their max date, that's when they get out, if they don't get any good time behavior. >> i want to talk about what the judge was taking into consideration here. i speak to what shaq talked about, how the judge at one point said, this is about repeatedly ignoring things. repeatedly ignoring the signs. you think about what we learned during the trial here in which we know the parents bought the

gun for their son, they knew of disturbing thoughts and drawings that he was repeatedly engaging in, they did not tell the school that he was in possession of this gun, having bought it a couple of days before this mass shooting. when reports of the shooting emerged and we heard it from the parent there in her testimony, jennifer crumbley texted her son and said, don't do it. which says to me, she thought her son had the ability to pull something like this off as it was going on. >> yeah. so much of this case, and it is interesting because at sentencing, you'll hear a lot of stuff that maybe didn't come in at the trial, people are usually focused on the liability phase, the trial, the guilt or innocence phase. but sentencing is equally as important and at sentencing hearings, you really do see more of the evidence. and a lot of this -- these text messages tend to show not only that the crumbleys were a little

too cavalier about this, but in addition, that their testimony, jennifer's at trial, and their statements to investigators were inconsistent. that they presented one face to investigators, that no, no, we cared, we were on the ball, we paid attention, otherwise, other statements they made were not so -- i got to tell you, looking at the sentencing memorandum of the prosecution, they really went after these defendants. they didn't take anything for granted. even statements like, hey, hey often do you drink? a couple of times a week. they got the receipts from the liquor store to show they were less than honest with the probation that was interviewing them. that's something you would never have heard at trial, but things like that, those contextual features, they come in at sentencing. >> there is two major other things that are going to be outstanding from this. first and foremost, the precedent this sets going forward, right? parents being held liable in a situation like this, in which a child carries out a minor

carries out a mass shooting at their own school. what type of precedent does this set for situations like this going forward. >> this is really interesting. parents have been held civilly responsible in similar circumstances. parents have been held criminally responsible, but in the past, only really when they participated in the child's crime. that's not what happened here. this was based on a theory of negligence, criminal negligence. and it may be the first case of its kind. and really is the first case of its kind. as an aside, it is interesting that this case, which involved a crime that arguably we in america didn't know existed a couple years ago, had never been tested, once tested, not only resulted in a conviction, but in a sentence that exceeded the recommended sentencing guidelines. we weren't sure a couple of years ago this is even a crime. but now that it is a crime, it warrants a sentence that is beyond what defendants normally get who are similarly situated. arguably you can say there never have been similarly situated

defendants. if this is a case of first impression, the message is, it is a serious crime. >> there is the other leg of this thing, buck mere saying this. we have taken care of three legs of november 30th. there is a fourth leg and that is the school. it is time for the school to pony up. it is time to break up that administration country club and it is time for change. what is the uphill battle they face in taking on the administration, their culpability in this? >> in terms of civil liability, it is always harder to hold governments responsible, governments include public schools. their liability is often very much curtailed by state law, depending, and it varies from state to state. you're right. that would be an uphill battle. can't hold the government criminally responsible. but, civilly responsible will be a challenge, perhaps the key is advocating for new legislature to address this problem, which has now become just blossomed as

a problem in the last few years. now that we know that this is a crime, because we really weren't sure it existed as a crime in america, until this case. and that's negligent parents being responsible for the gun shooting crimes of their children. that may -- we may be heralding a change and that change may include increased responsibility for school administrators. >> danny cevallos, thank you. appreciate it. rail operator norfolk southern has agreed to pay $600 million to east palestine, ohio, residents, affected by the toxic train derailment last february. the company saying the deal will resolve an entire slate of class action lawsuits within a 20 mile radius from the derailment and any personal injury claims made within half that distance. it does not include any admission of liability, wrongdoing or fault. the settlement is expected to be submitted for approval to the u.s. district court later on this month and pay outs could begin by the end of this year.

a major, and i mean major abortion ban decision just released in arizona in the last couple of minutes or so. we're going to explain the massive implications for millions of women in this state in just 60 seconds. we'll be right back. e in just 60 seconds we'll be right back. get the food they love. delivered again and again. (♪♪) [thud] oh... stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! here you go. is there anyway to get a better price on this? have you checked singlecare? whenever my customers ask how to get a better price on their meds, i always tell them about singlecare. it's a free app. accepted at major pharmacies nationwide. before i pick up my prescription at the pharmacy, i always check the singlecare price. it's quick, easy, and totally free to use. singlecare can literally beat my insurance copay. you just search for your prescription, and show your coupon in the app to your pharmacist. i just show you the coupon

and i get this price? that's right! go to singlecare.com and start saving today. all right, we're following this breaking news out of arizona, where the state supreme court just made a monumental abortion decision. a perspectively enforcing a 159-year-old mandate that is far stricter than the current law that is in place, outright banning abortion at any point by penalty of prison. an abortion rights supporter just summed up what she sees as the impact moments ago. >> today's ruling upholds an extreme unacceptable ban that harms pregnant patients experiencing medical complications that punishes

survivors of rape, incest and human trafficking. and that robs every single arizonan of one of our most fundamental rights. the right to make our own decisions about our health, our bodies, and our lives. >> nbc's yamiche alcindor is reporting on this and lisa rubin is with me. walk us through this ruling, what it means. >> good afternoon. the arizona state supreme court just announced that a state ban on nearly all abortions that dates back to 1864 will be the law of the land in that state. and that 1864 law bans anyone from providing abortion services except to save the life of the mother. you could face a mandatory two to five years in prison if convicted. the ruling indicates that enforcement of the law is stayed for 14 days. so current law in arizona allows abortions up to 15 weeks except

if it is immediately necessary to avert the death of the mother. that law also, we should note, does not contain at this point exceptions for rape or incest. that is what is happening right now. one immediate impact of this ruling which is sending waves across the country is that it could really increase the popularity of a potential ballot measure in the works for this year, advocates in arizona have said they already have gotten more than 500,000 signatures, well above the threshold needed to get on the ballot. and that would be enshrining abortion rights into the state constitution. really, this is a big, big decision. and it really just shows there is going to be a lot on november on the line when you think about arizona and that swing state. >> we heard from florida last week, which is now essentially going to go to six-week abortion ban in a couple of days or so because the initiative put in place by florida governor there ron desantis after the decision at the florida supreme court. now we're hearing this in arizona. is this what you expected to come out of this decision and

what are we talking when it comes to liability for women and healthcare workers? >> first of all, wasn't what i expected because this case is really an interesting one. it is about the intersection of two statutes enacted in dramatically different periods of time. one when arizona was still a territory, banning abortion outright, and then a 15-week ban that arizona put in place much later, but one that this court and the majority of this court says was predicated on roe being in existence at the time. what the court finds is that the result is that all abortions and i'm reading from the opinion, except those necessary to save a woman's life, are illegal and additional criminal and regulatory sanctions may apply to abortions performed after 15 weeks. that basically is saying to a physician or any other healthcare practitioner involved in the provision of an abortion in arizona, even if necessary to save a woman's life after 15 weeks, you can have criminal and regulatory sanctions applied to you.

this is nothing less than chilling. i think even more killing than what the florida supreme court did last week. >> yamiche, i want to talk about the ballot initiative. every time we have seen abortion on the ballot, in seven states so far, voters have showed up and voted in favor of abortion rights. and we're looking ahead to november and how that's going to be decided in florida as well. do we know at all where arizonans, where voters stand when it comes to abortion rights and their state, if in fact they're able to get this ballot initiative in time and in place for november? >> it is a key question. and it is important to note that in at least seven states where we have seen abortion ballot initiatives make it all the way to the ballot, each time the side that was in favor of abortion access has won. in arizona, you would imagine they might be like the rest of the country, which is the majority of americans say in poll after poll that they want to see some form of abortion access.

so, it will be very interesting to see whether or not the state of arizona is in the same way. the advocates there, the ones in favor of abortion access, they say that is the case that the majority of arizonans want to see a form of abortion rights there. i want to go back if we could to the idea of what it is going to mean for people on the ground there, because the governor of arizona has said that she, and i think she's about to talk, but the governor of arizona is saying she doesn't want this to be enforced. now that the state supreme court made this decision, it will be interesting to see if there will be legal challenges to enforcing this law and putting people in jail if they're in violation. >> you bring up the implications of this decision, also the implications of the healthcare system. and doctors that are afraid of being held liable and making the wrong decision, which we have often seen in other states across this country. >> that's right. you have democratic governor katie hobbs who issued an executive order last year granting state attorney general chris mays, a fellow democrat, the power to stop any attempt by county prosecution of alleged violation of abortion laws.

the attorney general said before her election in 2022, she would refuse to prosecute anyone for having an abortion, but, again, her refusal following a state supreme court ruling that affirms this ban now. it prompts its own legal challenge. we'll have to see whether or not the governor and the attorney general will have to enforce the law they say they morally disagree with. it is going to be very interesting to see what happens and you'll have women now they're trying to go to other states and it is going to be very hard because it is the west coast, there is california and other states. it is going to be like in florida where you have people driving hours and hours and hours trying to find resources at a moment where they're already feeling trauma. you have advocates for abortion rights saying this is really just going to be putting women's lives in danger and making it even harder for women to have healthy lives and to have healthy pregnancies. >> and by the way, the likelihood of this taking effect, it seems as if we're looking at a 14-day runway, which is not a lot of time. >> no, and even if in november this ballot initiative is to succeed, think about the window

of time between the expiration of the 14 days and when the ballot initiative if passed were to take place, think about all the healthcare clinics and healthcare providers that will decline to provide abortion in that period of time, even if chris mays does have the power as katie hobbs told her she does to enjoin enforcement of this decision by local prosecutors. >> yamiche, thank you. lisa rubin, stick with me. more breaking news, the fbi, dhs, national counterterrorism center issuing a new warning of threats to public gatherings here in the united states. ken dilanian is following this story for us and bringing us more. what do we know? >> good afternoon. this is a joint intelligence bulletin, unclassified intelligence report circulated to law enforcement officials that says that in the wake of last month's isis attack on that moscow concert hall, there is an elevated risk of home grown extremists attacking public gatherings in the united states, including sporting events,

concert venues and churches. christopher wray gave a speech at bar association event today where he reiterated all the points in this document. one reason they're seeing an elevated risk, they're seeing a lot of online chatter from isis sympathizers, including in english, extorting people to attack and praising the attacks in moscow and even asking for attack plans in the united states. that's raising a lot of concerns. and it comes as we are learning about an arrest in idaho of an 18-year-old who has been accused of plotting to attack churches in couer d'alene, idaho, an american isis sympathizer, whose parents were not muslim, but he had converted to islam, and went down a rabbit hole of isis propaganda during covid, according to a criminal complaint. now under arrest, accused of supporting isis and plotting to kill parishioners and police officers in a bizarre series of attacks on churches, where he waschetes and

knives and pipes. the fbi was able to thwart this plot, but the fear is -- the plots that they don't know about and it is really striking to me that after years of terrorism threats sort of fading, it seems to be back with a vengeance. >> ken dilanian for us, thank you, appreciate it. coming up, everybody, another blow to former president donald trump and his legal team's last ditch efforts to prevent hush money trial from kicking off just days from now. that's coming up next. from now that's coming up next. ur way. and she could track us and see exactly when we'd arrive. >> woman: i have a few more minutes. let's go! >> tech vo: we came to her with service that fit her schedule. >> woman: you must be pascal. >> tech: nice to meet you. >> tech vo: we got right to work, with a replacement she could trust. we come to you for free! schedule now for free mobile service at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ (vo) sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with viking.

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all right, moments ago, a lot happening this hour, folks, an appellate judge denying donald trump's latest attempt to delay his hush money trial. the second time that's happened in less than 24 hours. in both of these cases, trump wanted the trial put on hold while courts considered various motions. on monday, his attempt to get the trial moved out of manhattan. today, it was his challenge to judge juan merchan's gag order which he claimed undercuts his first amendment rights. i want to bring in ashley parker, msnbc political analyst, and vaughn hillyard is here with me on set and lisa rubin is back with me as well. lisa, start us off. give us the latest on this. >> the latest on this, this is the second of two attempts as you noted to delay the monday start of the hush money trial. today, what was on the table was

as trump is appealing judge juan merchan's gag order, as expanded to include the judge's family and the d.a.'s family now, he's saying that's unconstitutional and the trial itself should be put on hold while the appeal of that issue is being litigated. i want to point out, this is no ordinary appeal. usually a gag order couldn't be appealed until the end of the case when a defendant is convicted. so what they have done here is to sue the judge directly under a particular provision of new york law, where the standard for overturning the judge's action or any action by a state or local government is much higher than it would be for ordinary appeal. i don't expect them to win on the merit. they get a second crack at a stay, rather than being in front of one judge, they'll get to present the arguments to a five judge panel on the same day jury selection is slated to begin. >> let's get this split screen straight. you have jury selection beginning on monday, we'll be outside the courthouse. you have this five-judge

appellate panel, which will be hearing this from donald trump's attorneys. this certainly seems like it is going to be an ongoing strategy throughout this trial, these kind of delay tactics in which the former president and his attorneys are taking. >> to a certain extent, they're doing the work that if you were facing a criminal trial, you would want your lawyer to do. and donald trump is getting the due process that he as a criminal defendant deserves. and as part of this, though, he likes to take on whether it be judge engoron, judge merchan, he likes to take on these singular individuals. but the issue for him coming up here is when we're talking about the appellate court, you're talking about another body that is going to be in this case ruling against him on these motions to dismiss. and so, for donald trump, this comes at a point in time where he's made it very clear, repeatedly, that he does not believe these criminal trials should be proceeding during the course of the campaign and should be pushed off beyond november. that is why the jury is

ultimately through this selection process going to be new york citizens, but he has his own jury and that's the folks in central pennsylvania, at a campaign rally on saturday, he's going to try to win over from the podium at a time in which he does not and he's evoking a lack of trust in the justice system, but going to try to win within the political system. >> and the trump civil fraud trial, there are also kind of these similar delay tactics taken when it came to the gag order put into place by judge engoron. it didn't work. >> it didn't. in that case, the trial went on, the trial was already under way when judge engoron entered his gag order. he did succeed, former president trump, in getting a two-week temporary pause of that gag order during which it was not in effect. but ultimately it was reinstated by an appeals court and on the merits, they found that judge engoron did nothing wrong with the gag order. it was within his rights and constitutional. i expect we'll see the same thing here. >> ashley, just because you're not here, doesn't mean i'm not coming to you. i'm coming to you in a moment.

i want to talk about the questionnaire we have gotten from judge juan merchan, some things that stood out to me. we have been outside the courtroom or the other courtrooms i should say leading up to this moment and talking about some of the questions that were in some of other jury questionnaires. two things that stood out to me, right, as to whether or not any of these jurors have volunteered for trump or attended one of his rallies on the flip side asking whether perspective jurors have ever been to an anti-trump rally or follow anti-trump groups on social media, what do you make of how this questionnaire is laid out, especially juxtaposing it to what we heard from judge kaplan in the e. jean carroll case? >> the e. jean carroll case, judge kaplan asked some questions that aren't at issue here. we have discussed he asked, do you believe that the 2020 election was stolen? that question was meant to be a proxy for how passionately do you feel that donald trump is in the right and will that prejudice you in a way that you can't hear e. jean carroll's civil claims fairly. there are some different

questions here, but i think similarly designed to sus out who has a level of intensity of feeling either pro trump or anti-trump for that matter that would inhibit them from serving as a juror here and dispensing justice fairly and neutrally. >> ashley, the judge is kind of trying to take politics as much as you can when the presumptive nominee for president of the united states, the republican nominee for president of the united states is on trial, trying to take politics out of the questions for these perspective jurors. >> that's right. and it serves as a contrast to what former president trump is doing, which is injecting politics into just about every aspect of this. when he's in the courtroom, as vaughn said, he's also performing for that audience of central pennsylvania. he's performing for them in person. but he views those courtroom appearances and everything he's

doing in this realm as well as part of the campaign and the flip side is when he's out on the campaign trail, he's often talking about these cases against him. these indictments. and how they're not fair. one thing that comes to mind is he's sort of said, you know, i fly over a blue state, and i get indicted. his goal is to make this all seem deeply political, deeply partisan, like a witch-hunt, and not at all fair. so, it makes sense that, of course, the judge would be trying to restore sort of a traditional judicial order the way that branch is supposed to work to the proceedings. >> but, by the way, amongst the general public and the voting public and his supporters, ashley, it seems to be working according to this polling coming from "the washington post." i want you to weigh in on where republican belief in the former president's falsehood are growing. if you look at a question of whether or not there was voter fraud in 2016, in 2018, 26%

believed there was. in 2024, 38%. humans don't cause climate change, 33% then, 46% now. what does this indicate to you? >> well, the findings are fascinating and i would love to be able to go back and talk to some of those republicans who weighed in. what it indicates to me is that this -- the one thing that jumped out was especially the number of republicans who now believe trump's lie that the 2020 election was stolen. that is the starkest number that has really increased. and trump has sort of made that, in addition to standing. and so these people who now believe that they are not just hearing it from former president trump, who often says things that aren't true, depending on where they live or what they watch they're hearing it from newsey hosts who they trust

conservative and right wing channels, they're hearing it from their elected representative. they're even hearing versions of it from senators and members of congress who know better and will privately tell you the election wasn't stolen, but in public aren't filling to cross trump in that way. and so they're getting not just one input from trump, but a lot of inputs. and i wonder if that's one of the things that is swaying their view, because at this point to be aus republican means to acce the falsehood that the 2020 election was stolen. >> i will leave you with this, also from this "washington post" piece which i found really fascinating, trump's false statements are central to some of the criminal trials he faces as the presidential election nears, but his advocates have signaled they will claim the truth does not matter. ashley parker, vaughn hillyard, lisa ruben, thank you all. brand-new reporting on where ceasefire talks as vice

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welcome back. right now hamas is saying it's reviving the lewis -- reviewing, i should say, the latest ceasefire and hostage proposal drafted by negotiators in cairo. the clock is ticking on a deal. israeli prime minister bibi netanyahu yesterday saying israel has set a date for the invasion of rafah adding, quote, there is no force in the world that will stop us. once again, defying white house

warnings that such a move would be a catastrophe for civilians. a look at khan yunis giving us an idea what have that means, an nbc news crew filmed this footage of palestinians returning home after the idf pulled out, finding their city in absolute ruins. homes, mosques, shops, destroyed beyond repair. i want to bring in nbc's hala gorani reporting from tel aviv and kelly o'donnell in washington for us as well. if you will start things off for us, i know you have new reporting on where those ceasefire talks stand right now, walk us through it. >> reporter: indeed. we spoke with an israeli official from the prime minister's office who is privy to those conversations that take place in the war cabinet and there are many sticking points, many obstacles as you can imagine in these ceasefire negotiations, not least of course the number of hostages that would be released, how long any pause in hostilities would last. we know that hamas would want a

permanent ceasefire, would want a completely free and unfettered return of those displaced from the north back to their homes. we understand according to this source that one of the sticking points, maybe not the main one, but one of them is that the hamas representatives would want complete free return to the north. we know that the israeli government and the israeli military are opposed to that, that anyone they allow back would have to be subjected to some pretty stringent security checks and this is something that the hamas representatives oppose as well. and this is happening all against the backdrop, as you mentioned, yasmin, of this return to khan yunis, these areas that the israeli military withdrew from where people are saying there's nothing to go back here. we can't live here. animals can't live here some people were saying. so those individuals who were quite hopeful leaving rafah, these tent cities in the south thinking maybe i can go back

home and resume some sort of normal life, they're realizing right now that at best some of them can retrieve some clothing, a few belongings and go right back to their tents. it's a pretty dire situation inside of the strip and still, by the way, that increased aid, those new aid crossings that the israeli government promised, they would reopen, that as well has not materialized, though we've seen a few more trucks go in through the rafah border, yasmin. >> kelly, one of the groups that desperately want a deal to be struck here are the families of the hostages that are still in captivity with hamas. i know some of them are scheduled to meet with the vice president today. what is the white house telling you? >> reporter: well, these meetings, which have occurred at different times and you're right, today with the vice president, are an important part of the u.s. response to try to show some of these families that have been waiting now six months for some kind of answers to share with them what they are

learning behind the scenes, to offer support and to try to show how the u.s. is very concerned about leveraging the safe return of american hostages as a part of this overall negotiation. now, as we were just hearing the situation is dire on the ground and the fate and the status of hostages is a real question mark, but they also present an opportunity for negotiation and the u.s. and the various partners who have been trying to negotiate between israel and hamas about this are using these lives as one of the pressure points to try to bring about some resolution. the hostages are, in fact, an important component of this from a diplomatic point of view and obviously for families. theres no way to even calculate what these months have been like for them. wanting answers. it has been difficult. they have met with the national security adviser and other white house officials. today with the vice president, and we hope to have more of a

readout in the sort of washington speak after the meeting about what kind of conversation this was. it is intended to be a safe and frank place for hostage families to be able to express their views, raise concerns and complaints they might have and to try to get some information. and of course in these situations information can be a lifeline for everyone involved. so the white house is trying to demonstrate support and ongoing engagement with these families, while they are also trying to separately exert influence over israel in how it is conducting and prosecuting its war. >> kelly o'donnell for us, thank you. hala gorani, thank you as well. still ahead, everybody, the house back in session with a handful of new huge political challenges facing speaker johnson. we're going to head to the hill. in our next hour the nypd commissioner speaks out after a string of violent incidents in new york. what's being done to protect residents and tourists? you're watching msnbc. urists you're watching msnbc.

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not to remove him as speaker. that threat growing bigger today as marjorie taylor greene wrote a letter to her colleagues explaining why she filed a motion to vacate speaker johnson. brendan buck joining me now. as always, good to talk to you. you've been in these rooms for these types of conversations. maybe not this direct threat, but these conversations. how do you balance getting for instance what you see as important aid across the finish line yet maintaining your position as speaker of the house with threats from the likes of marjorie taylor greene? >> it might be just that simple. i've always thought her threat was about ukraine and in this letter, she makes it clear that's what this is all about. to a surprising degree to me, mike johnson has been leaning into this idea for weeks now that the next agenda item in the

house is aid to ukraine. for a long time, he was pretty hard to nail down on where he stood on this, but he's made clear he thinks it's the right thing to do and she represents the isolationist part of the republican party. the trump part of the party now. that is simply not interested in sending any taxpayer money anywhere. he faces a pretty tough choice. where i come down on this is if you are going to save your job, you're probably going to need democrats to help you. so his choice is whether he does what he thinks is the right thing, sending money to ukraine and hoping that democrats will be there and marjorie taylor greene does this or walking away and hope she keeps this threat in her back pocket. i don't know if you can count on that if you're speaker johnson. >> so maybe trying to call her bluff, which she hasn't necessarily been bluffing before and it only really takes one member of the house to raise

this motion to vacate. but when you're watching what's happening overseas and as time is ticking by and day after day, it seems like moscow is advancing more and more on ukraine. this aid desperately needed overseas, right? how does he take that into account and also getting this across the finish line quickly in spite of the fact it threatens his leadership? >> it's one of those things where it's really easy to be against ukraine aid or be skeptical of it. he was for a long time. it's easy when you're just a rank and file member of the house. when you're speaker of the house, you realize -- >> it's a legacy. >> yeah. you understand that the weight of this conflict is in some ways on your shoulders. and that provides a whole new point of view. so i imagine he realizes now at this point it's necessary and the right thing to do. the politics are not good for him in his conference. be clear about that. very disruptive and divisive in the conference but at some

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