barnstorming swing through a vital battleground state, pennsylvania. that, in itself, might be the contrast they want. appreciate all the ground covered by white house reporter for bloomberg news, akayla gardner. thank you again. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> trump was in pennsylvania and took a moment to talk about local history. >> gettysburg, what an unbelievable battle that was. the battlegettysburg. unbelievable. it was so interesting and vicious and horrible and so beautiful in so many different ways. it represented such a big portion of the success of this country. gettysburg, wow, i go to gettysburg, pennsylvania, to look and to watch. >> what a stirring order. i look forward to ken burns' updated documentary.

♪♪ >> my dearest martha, wow. today we fought at gettysburg. it was so much and so interesting and so vicious and so beautiful in so many ways. but all worth it to protect every person, woman, man, camera, and future tv. for as it says in the declaration of independence, all men are endowed with certain rights that are unaddlinable, unbabble, forget it. i'm dead. >> oh, my, pretty good. >> the original, though, how can you top the original? donald trump's speech, wow. >> i don't know. >> it was so interesting. so wow. >> who says that? >> it was so much. >> so much. >> then he -- >> i go to watch. >> i don't know what to say about it. >> i go there to watch. >> wow. >> so much. >> what's going through his

mind? >> not much. >> but president biden is incognitive decline. i mean, the argument is the president can't talk his way out of a paper bag. watch any donald trump rally. >> yeah, there's just no -- there's no comparison on any of these fronts. he's just rambling. i mean, i guess, i guess, jonathan, he is lucky he is going to be in court for several weeks and can't do any more damage to himself on the trail. >> that's right, limit the gafs. yeah, this is an inflection point. biden hitting the road this week. former president trump will be in a courtroom each and every day. when he is on the trail, as he was in pennsylvania over the weekend, you know, gettysburg, wow. that's it. >> so much. so much. >> i really don't know what to say. we have the president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass.

and pulitzer prize winning associate editor for "the washington post", eugene robinson. i don't know what to say except, you know, wow. >> so much. >> so much. >> well, actually, there is this to say. history was made yesterday as former president donald trump is set to be back in court later this morning for day two. >> wow. >> of his hush money criminal trial, criminal trial. the first day ended with no jurors selected for the panel of 12 and 6 alternates, 18 total. the court spent much of the morning reviewing several motions before moving on to the jury selection process. one of the motions included trump's request that judge juan merchan recuse himself from the trial. the judge ruled against it. judge merchan also denied any changes to the jury questionnaire. he then denied prosecutors'

requests to bring in other allegations of sexual assault against trump, calling them complete hearsay. additionally, the "access hollywood" tape will not be admissible in court, but the transcript can be used. the judge also barred prosecutors from introducing the video of trump's deposition in the e. jean carroll case. the jury selection process began after lunch. 500 potential candidates reported to the courtroom. of those, the first batch of 96 were brought into the courtroom for questioning. more than half, 50 potential jurors, said they could not be impartial or could not otherwise serve and were immediately dismissed. reporters noted that trump watched the potential jurors at times, turning to smirk at them at one point. several potential jurors in the jury box appeared to frequently stare at trump while the judge introduced the case. the process will get back under

way later this morning. jury selection could take up to two weeks or more due to the large pool of prospective jurors. they brought, like, 6,000 to the courthouse. there were other cases happening, as well, joe. we have a full set of legal experts lined up this morning to take a bigger look at what's going on at the manhattan courthouse with the former president. >> we'll be talking to chuck rosenberg, also lisa rubin in a minute. willie, no surprise at all that they're going to have trouble finding jurors. >> yeah. >> this could take a long time. >> yeah, looking at the questionnaire. do you have any strong opinions or firmly held beliefs about former president donald trump? it's hard to find someone in 2024 who does not have some view of donald trump one way or another. it'll be a long process. as we saw yesterday, they're throwing out jurors by the dozens because they say, well, yes, of course i have strong views about donald trump. >> jonathan, it is really something. i mean, a criminal case, the

president going to the courtroom for a criminal case where he had to sit for the next however many weeks and go through the trial. >> yeah, reality has arrived. he doesn't have a choice in the matter. we heard trump yesterday afterwards complain that the judge wouldn't let him leave to attend his son's high school graduation, to leave to attend the supreme court oral arguments, which are set for next week. the judge is like, that's not how this works. we're going to treat you like everyone else. you're a criminal defendant. you have to be here. the judge could issue a waiver for a day if he wants, perhaps for the graduation, but he certainly doesn't have to. we could see the frustration from trump was obvious in the truth social posts afterward, as well. his demeanor in court, some reporters are allowed in the room, and they suggest he looked frustrated. he closed his eyes. we don't know if he was asleep or not, but he closed his eyes.

>> hold on a second. you've seen the trump standard for judging joe biden when he closes his eyes and prays at a memorial service in hawaii, then he's sleepy and dopey. i saw something this past weekend, a headline, and i won't even say what the newspaper was. i was like, oh, okay, i have to see it because it said biden was addled or whatever, like, him walking across the white house lawn. using their standard, they would say, if joe biden did that in the courtroom, he was comatose and had to be rushed to belleview or something like that. yeah, trump, obviously, though, we can -- we don't have to be the bill o'reilly. what'd he have? >> body language experts. >> yeah, we don't have to be that. you can look at his face and see the weight of all this is finally weighing down on him. >> no question. we spoke to charles coleman, one of the msnbc legal experts on "way too early," who notes,

again, sitting in a criminal trial, it is draining. you're there for seven, eight hours. it is intense. it'll take a toll on anyone, particularly someone who is in his late 70s, under a lot of pressure right now. that is a real thing. otherwise, yesterday proceeded as it was expected, willie. proceeded as a matter of routine. but that doesn't take away the history of it. this was the first time a former president and about to be presidential nominee is sitting as a criminal defendant. >> it'll be a long trial. i mean, we have a window into that from yesterday. just the jury selection now looks like that could take weeks before we even get to introducing evidence and conducting the trial the way we would watch it. he's going to be there for a long time. remember, this is just one of several trials ahead for him this year. >> gene robinson, a lot of people have said that the system doesn't work, that donald trump is above the law. it certainly seemed that way for most of his adult life, all of

his adult life. you wrote that yesterday proves he's not above the law. the system works. >> yeah, the system is actually working. it's taken it a while. it's taken a while for any of these four criminal cases to actually get to a courtroom for trial. this is the first one. prosecutor alvin bragg filed these felony charges against donald trump, and the process moved on. he was prepared -- bragg was prepared to step back and let the federal cases go first or even the georgia case, but those all got delayed thanks to donald trump's machinations mostly, so here we are. you know, to quote the great orator about the first day, "wow, it was so much." it was fascinating and kind of

riveting as he sat there in a courtroom, where he is going to be day after day after day. there was a point, reportedly, at which he seemed to kind of lose it at his attorney, todd blanche, over -- maybe blanche wasn't fighting hard enough on some point of procedure or producing some documents, and trump seemed to really get cross with him right after lunch. you've got to wonder how long he's going to be contained in that defendant's chair. >> yeah. >> and whether he actually blows at some point and gets himself into deeper trouble with judge merchan. >> it's an exhausting process. we have chuck rosenberg and lisa rubin standing by to talk about where this is all headed, but there's a lot of other news to cover this morning. including a potentially

significant development on capitol hill. house speaker mike johnson unveiled a republican-led foreign aid package yesterday according to three sources familiar with the process. the legislation would include three aid measures with tens of billions of dollars for ukraine, israel, taiwan, and allies in the indo-pacific. a fourth measure would include national security priorities, such as seizing russian assets in the u.s., a loan/lease program for ukraine, and additional sanctions on iran. johnson says his preference is to vote on each bill individually, but we'll let the chamber decide. >> there are precipitating events around the globe that we're all watching very carefully, and we know the world is watching us to see how we react. we have terrorists and tyrants and terrible leaders around the world, like putin and xi and in iran, and they're watching to

see if america will stand up for its allies and our own interest around the globe, and we will. >> well, but they haven't. i'm very glad he said that and hope that he actually comes through with a clean aid bill to ukraine. they haven't said it, but they're talking about it now. what's it look like, richard? >> look, i don't much care whether it is a combined bill or, you know, separate bill, so long as the aid for ukraine passes. that's the most pressing of all of that. >> right. >> you know, every day, the battlefield news, joe, is awful. strategically and also in human terms. you have the soldiers on the front lines who simply maybe have a half dozen shells, and they have to parcel them out to get through a day. you can't fight a war that way. it is tilting in russia's favor. this is recklessness and irresponsibility on steroids, that we've ever reached this point. to me, it doesn't matter so much whether it is loans or grants, just get ukraine the military

aid, more and sooner. there's obviously going to be a compromise here. it'll be less than ukraine wants and needs, it's later, and the economic terms won't be as generous, but if that's the price to get it, pay the price. >> let's bring in james stavridis, retired four star general, admiral of the navy, and analyst for nbc news. your thoughts on the aid. >> i'm with richard, get it done. frankly, it doesn't matter whether it is linked together, although i can make a pretty good argument that they all kind of fit together. but, at this point, without question, the racehorse that needs to be in the pole position is ukraine. look, the israelis are not going to be defeated by hamas. certainly, china is a longer-term problem. the one that really matters now, now, now, is getting the aid to ukraine, and it's a military

imperative. the only bright spots in ukraine are the hits against the russian black sea fleet at sea, have been quite effective. other than that, the ukrainians are on their back foot, both in the air and on the land. good news, they're going to add f-16s over the next couple of months, but that will not tip this balance without the bread and butter of hard core ammunition for the battlefield, particularly artillery shells. got to get done. final thought, to draw a line under something the speaker said, which is, the world is watching. it is watching. >> yeah. it is watching, and this is good news, jonathan, obviously, if the aid gets to our allies, but it is a little rich for a lot of democrats who have been making this exact arguments for months and months and months now, which is, beijing is watching what we do in ukraine. mike johnson, who stood in the way of a lot of this aid, is now

making the same arguments, saying also, the munitions are being made in america. admiral stavridis has been staying it for months and months on this show. speaker johnson coming around late for the cases people have been making for foreign aid for ukraine, israel, and taiwan. >> this is far from a sure thing to get done here. >> right. >> first of all, the fourth bill we don't know much about, still being worked out, will include related measures, a ban on tiktok, seizing assets from russian oligarchs in the u.s., and so on. the white house deeply opposes this idea. the point was to combine this, thinking it'd have a better chance to get ukraine funding through if it was attached to israel. certainly, right now, israel has a lot of momentum in the wake of this weekend's attacks, but a lot of those on the right are still opposing the ukraine aid. it's not clear that johnson has the votes. a number of republicans are still opposed to this. in order to placate some of the hard-right republicans, even if he is able to get their support in the house, it is probably going to mean including provisions that are non-starters in the senate, so they'll have to go back there.

that seems a pretty dire chance that can get done. the fact that johnson is taking this step is endangering his speakership. i guess credit to him that he is doing it. marjorie taylor greene raged after it, declaring it a betrayal. >> again, you said hard right. you can't even say that anymore, willie, when members of the republican house gop are saying they're putin propagandists, leaders of the republican party's foreign policy apparatus inside the house are saying they have become dupes to russian disinformation. or, i don't know, are they dupes? why would somebody from northern georgia start spouting russian propaganda points? she's not a dupe, is she? why would -- i'm just curious. why would other members of the house republican party start

spouting russian propaganda? i don't have any answers to this. though i am fascinated by it. i know there's been some talk in russia that, actually -- i mean, some talk in europe that some european politicians have actually been on the take from russia. that explains that. i don't understand, though, why politicians from dalton, georgia, are spewing talking points from vladimir putin and russian television. strange times when -- i'm not saying this, i'm quoting the republican who runs the intel committee who is saying this, quoting the republican who runs the foreign affairs committee for saying this -- very strange times indeed in the republican house. >> mike turner, the chair of the intel committee, a republican, said publicly in an interview on cnn last week, he hears direct russian propaganda from the mouths of the republicans on the floor of the house.

that's from him. he's a republican talking about his colleagues there. it is a fair question, why? >> why? >> what's going on? by the way, you can take the argument, as we have for almost a decade now, to the top. why does donald trump defend vladimir putin at every turn? we've never fully gotten to the bottom of that, but it seems many of his minions in the house are following his lead on that. >> richard, why? >> look, we have been debating that for, what, ten years now? >> i know, i know. but, now, you have ronald reagan's former party being run by a speaker who has been worried about russian propagandists. again, russian propagandists, according to the head of the house gop intel committee. >> let's talk about a couple of reasons. one is the isolationism in the republican party, as you know now, is power. the virus has come out, and it has a lot of political appeal. a lot of the support for

republicans, particularly white christians, a lot of support there for russia. you see the websites there, a lot of overlap, a lot of visceral support for putin and putinism. an inability to support anything that joe biden wants. if joe biden wants it, republicans have to oppose it. i can come up with lots of reasons. bottom line, it risks america's national security. these people use the word patriot 24/7, and this is as unpatriotic as you can get. >> unless you're talking about russian patriotism. >> yeah. >> spewing russian propaganda talking points according to the gop intel chief and the head of the foreign affairs committee in the house republican party. >> it is a strange number one issue. why is this her number one issue? >> why? >> i don't have the answer. perhaps we'll find out. >> it is bizarre. >> it is. the u.s. expects israel's response to iran, willie, to be limited in scope, just like -- i've got to say -- we predicted

here that iran's response would be limited enough. iran talks big. iran doesn't want to, let's just say, find out. they don't want to find out. they don't want to find out what the response from the united states will be if they open the door to a widespread war. >> mess around and find out. >> that's what the kids say. >> heard a version of that. >> we're hearing at nbc news according to four u.s. officials, the retaliatory actions from israel likely will involve strikes against iranian military forces and proxies outside of iran. the assessment is based on conversations that took place before this weekend's attack. on saturday, as joe said, iran fired more than 300 missiles and drones at israel. 99% of them were intercepted or shot down by israel, the united states, with the help of some arab allies and the uk, as well. the attack was in reaction to an israeli strike earlier this

month in syria where several iranian leaders were killed. the u.s., france, uk, asking israel to show restraint to avoid a larger conflict. israel's war cabinet met for a second time yesterday in less than 24 hours. a spokesperson said israel, quote, retains all options and reserves the right to do everything it can to defend the countries. officials haven't provided any detail on which options are being considered. admiral stavridis, obviously, iran could have inflicted more damage than it did. 99% of those missiles and drones were intercepted. no casualties either. what do you expect from israel? will they heed the advice and the warnings from the united states here? >> the way i'm thinking about it, and i suspect the way it's being briefed to the war cabinet is, look, there's options here. one is go big, major, major strikes, jets whistling over

tehran. go after the nuclear program. a big, big strike against the homeland. option two, which is what we're discussing and i think we'll end up with, would be some level of response, probably against the homeland, but much more limited. perhaps going after the manufacturing site for the drones or something that would smack a proportionality, so a more limited strike but against the homeland. option three would be strikes against proxies, strikes against non-homeland targets. that could include, for example, using cyber to go after the iranian economy. it could include maritime. you know the admiral is going to say that. you can go after the iranian warships at sea that are supporting the houthis, both with intelligence and supply.

finally, final option would be be very, very restrained, kind of take the narrative high road. if you ask me to bet where it lands, i think they'll do some combination of option two and three. there will be some strike, i think, against a homeland target. it is almost irresistible for the israelis. but they'll certainly take the more limited package i described, cyber, maritime, special forces, that piece i think is almost certain. we'll know more in five to seven days, i would say. >> richard, let's undermine the fact, again, that arab neighbors helped in this moment. it's pretty remarkable and also tracks with what we've been hearing behind the scenes. you have jordan, the emiratis, the saudis, a lot of other arab

neighbors standing by, waiting to help in the post-war period. their only problem is how long it is going on and the number of civilian deaths in gaza, only because, you know, if it were to continue another six months, it'd be extraordinarily hard for them to go in and help. >> yeah, but what we're talking about with iran isn't going to change that. the israeli government, whatever it decides to do with iran, and my guess is they will do something direct against the iranian homeland in order to quote, unquote, restore deterrence, i think that's what they will end up doing, joe, they're not about to do the sorts of things with the palestinians that would make it, shall we say, easy for the arabs to step in economically or with troops or whatever in gaza. that's the disconnect between the israeli government and the arab world. the arab world wants them to do something against iran, prepared to support them, but there is a

real disconnect still between the right-wing government in israel and what the saudis and others would see as the necessary -- >> of course. >> i don't see this changing it. funny sort of way, the gaza debate has almost been parked for a couple days, but none of the fundamentfundamentals have >> when you have netanyahu against a two-state solution, that's just not going to work. >> no, that's why the iranians -- >> it may work for him, for a right-wing government, but i -- but in the long run, that won't work for the united states. it won't work for allies in the region. it won't work. they've taken a position, netanyahu has take an position that is too extreme. like i said, i understand right now, the israeli people not wanting to talk about a two-state solution. again, netanyahu has been working against it for 10, 15 years. we have to move forward. when i say we, we ought to be able to say that as friends that help israel remain afloat. >> we ought to be saying it publicly and coming down hard on the israelis over settlements, over settler violence.

we ought to be articulating the parameters of a peace deal. we should not go, you cannot go to a two-state solution now, but you can sketch out the horizon and begin the process of moving down that path. this israeli government will never go there because this israeli government, the political and idealogical foundations of it wouldn't allow it. there is going to be a day of reckoning there. in the meantime, though, we have this other crisis we have to deal with. >> well, and, by the way, another crisis that shows we remain their friends and steadfast allies and people who will stand with them through thick and thin regardless, when they're attacked by iranians, it's an easy call for us. richard, thank you so much. should we talk about the masters? >> no. >> he picked it correctly. scottie scheffler. >> it's on the tape. it was a dominant performance by scottie scheffler. seven birdies in the last round. a level of consistent golf that

is quite breathtaking. >> that's the thing that struck me. in the final nine, the back nine of the masters on sunday, i don't care who it is, they usually -- except tiger in 2019, i've seen the greats even push one off to the right or hook one into the woods. you know? but he was -- he was from 8, 9 on, man, he was locked in, and every shot was where it needed to be. >> you watch him, and his disposition never changes. he didn't get too high if he hit a good shot. didn't throw the club or look down. he was dialed in. he is as consistent and great a golfer as we've seen in a long time. won two masters in the last three years. he is 27 years old. he's got some road ahead of him. >> the only threat to him on sunday was that his wife was going to go into labor, and he would have to go home. >> yes. >> other than that, nothing else. nothing else was going to get in

the way of his getting a second green jacket. >> the wife told the doctor, don't call him. we'll take the check and the endorsements. you know, we actually -- you know who the scottie scheffler of "morning joe" is, admiral james stavridis. >> very consistent. >> he is locked in. >> okay. >> admiral stavridis, you're always locked in, and we're going to be providing you with your own green jacket, sir. >> yeah, as we always say, scottie scheffler, wow, so much. >> wow, so much. [ laughter ] >> so much. i like to go there and just watch. >> wow. ahead on "morning joe," we're going to turn back to donald trump's hush money trial. >> some terrible things. >> interesting things. >> in a few hours from now, we'll go over the top takeaways from day one, including the new fight to hold the former president in contempt. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> richard, that is an

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this trial could go on for months but trump has a presidential campaign to run. his team claims even on some court days, trump will hold both in-person and virtual events. that's going to make for some awkward trial moments. your honor, can we wrap this up, please? i am late for a rally where i call for your execution. if it please the court. welcome back. joining us now, former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent

lisa rubin, and former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst chuck rosenberg. president of the national action network and host of "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. lisa, we'll start with you. you were in the courtroom. aside from the historic aspect of this event yesterday, if you could break down the major developments in the first day legally for us. >> mika, one of the biggest things that happened yesterday, and, truthfully, what consumed the most amount of time, was the pretrial motions that the parties wanted heard before judge merchan. in particular, the d.a.'s office asking for clarification with respect to a number of evidentiary rulings judge merchan had made. in asking for the clarity, they took us on a tour of their case. it was almost like a mini opening statement. because we got a preview of all of the ways in which they are going to buttress the story that

you and i and many viewers know so well. that michael cohen worked with donald trump to ensure that stormy daniels and karen mcdougal's stories never saw the light of day before the 2016 election, and, thereafter, worked with trump and allen weisselberg and others to paper it over in a way that we would never know that this is what they had done. but the d.a.'s office yesterday was showing us how they're going to scaffold michael cohen as a witness. what are they going to build into that? we saw yesterday, for example, a preview of how they're going to use the national enquirer witnesses. they said in 2015 there was a meeting at trump power where david pecker made a promise to the trump campaign. he'd do three things. bury negative stories about donald trump, accentuate very positive stories about donald trump, and also say extraordinarily denigraing things about his enemies. yesterday, the d.a.'s office said, these are headlines we want introduced as evidence of

this scheme. things like that are how we saw the preview of the d.a.'s case yesterday. >> chuck, judge merchan immediately ruled against recusing himself. that was pushed to the side, that motion, very quickly. any other motions that stood out to you? after that, if you can, speak to the difficulty of picking this jury, if the lead question is, do you have any opinion about donald trump, arguably the most famous person in the country right now. >> you're not looking for people who have no opinion. i'll give an example. we tried the 9/11 conspiracy in federal court in alexandria, a few miles from the pentagon. we weren't looking for people who never heard of 9/11. we weren't looking for people who were neutral on al qaeda, right? people heard of 9/11, and they weren't neutral on al qaeda. we were looking for people who could say, despite those things, i can listen to the evidence and be fair. that's all you're looking for. you can put aside what you know, what you believe, watch what's

introduced at trial, follow the instructions by the judge, apply the law to the facts, and render a fair and impartial verdict. i don't think it's that difficult to find a dozen people who can be fair. you may have to ask a lot of people until you find 12, but they'll get there. as for the judge's rulings, not to recuse himself, that was easy. there was no basis for it. and i think lisa very well summarized some of the other rulings yesterday. admitting evidence that the government is going to use at trial to sort of explain the context and the backdrop for why it was so important for the trump campaign to try and kill this story right before the election. >> i think, as one that knew donald trump, donald trump, people forget, most of us at some point are motivated or try to use the influence of those that we looked up to, mentored up, whatever.

he's on his roy cohn mentorship. you always look to find one or two of the jurors that can either hang the jury or get you an acquittal. this is why he is sitting there, staring at the jury, at the prospective jurors, trying to see what rhythm he can get with who may be sitting in the box. he'll be playing the roy cohn card throughout the trial, trying to, you know, use his facial expressions and other things to try to discredit without saying anything people like michael cohen and all. chuck, my question to you is, how do you counter that if you are the prosecutor, and how do you deal with the fact that you're dealing with a defendant who is trying to stay out of jail, who hung around people like roy cohn all of his life, and is trying to play the jury as a defendant when he's not sleepy donald? >> right. all defendants are trying to

stay out of jail, so he is not unique in that way. but you raise an interesting point, reverend. it only takes one juror to hang the jury. let me explain that. a jury has to be unanimous to convict. 12-0. it has to be unanimous to acquit, 12-0. but any other combination, 11-1, 10-2, means a mistrial. for a defendant who is looking to run out the clock, right, having a mistrial would be a wonderful outcome for mr. trump. not a conclusive outcome but a wonderful outcome. it means that if there is another trial, it's months and months away. >> right. >> he might be president again by then. so, you know, that is a hard task for a prosecutor, to eliminate from the jury pool anybody who has a hidden agenda. by definition, hidden agendas are hidden. the voir dire process is an attempt to try to pierce that veil, but it is not perfect.

while i believe, as i told willie, you can get a fair jury, it could be the case that somebody ends up on the jury who wants a particular outcome. you ought to try to avoid that as a prosecutor. >> gene, obviously, that's what donald trump is hoping for. he only needs one juror who decides they're going to ignore the facts, they're going to ignore the evidence, they're going to ignore the law, and let donald trump walk. >> yeah, that's exactly what he wants. he's going to try to -- he and, i guess, his lawyers are going to try to engineer that. my question to lisa, just in terms of inside the courtroom, aside from the interlude when he seemed to fall asleep, was donald trump really actively engaged? did he seem to be engaged with his defense lawyers?

how was that dynamic? do you expect him to try to play a major role in this jury selection process, in making those decisions? and from the point of view of his defense team, is that a good thing or bad thing? >> i think from the point of view of his defense team, look, gene, nobody wants to be micromanaged by a client ever, particularly a client who maybe doesn't have the best judgment with respect to how he's perceived by others. but was he actively engaged? yes. i was particularly struck by the, i'll call it the friendship or the bromance between todd blanche and donald trump yesterday. there was frequent huddling, arms around each other, whispering, pointing, constant back and forth. i will also tell you that todd blanche, who joined former president trump's legal team about a year ago, seems unparalleled now in his closeness to former president trump.

he didn't enjoy the same rapport with two of the other attorneys sitting at the council table. one of blanche's partners and a former colleague in the u.s. office, and susan neckless, at the far end of the table, and one of new york's best known criminal defense lawyers. she's extraordinarily skilled and, yet, doesn't seem to have the same relationship, that rapport that todd blanche and donald trump have clearly developed. so i will be looking to that, that interplay. who is leading who is the key question on my mind. is blanche able to get through to trump and give him his best counsel, or is this a situation of agency capture, where, in effect, trump's lawyers become more trumpy as a result of their association with him. >> legal correspondent lisa rubin, thank you very much. we'll be seeing a lot of you, and we appreciate it.

chuck rosenberg, i have one more story. the armorer on the set of "rust" has been sentenced to 18 months in prison for involuntary manslaughter. guitierrez-reed was convicted for the death of halyna hutchins, who was killed in october 2021 after a gun, that alec baldwin was holding, fired a live bullet. prosecutors argued guitierrez-reed was reckless in her job of managing weapons and directly caused the tragedy. baldwin is also facing an involuntary manslaughter charge. prosecutors allege the actor was negligent in failing to make sure the gun he was handed did not contain live ammunition. baldwin has pleaded not guilty. his trial is set to begin in july, but a judge is currently weighing a motion from his defense to dismiss the

indictment. chuck, what do you think this outcome means for alec baldwin, if anything? what do you make of his attempt to dismiss the indictment? then, of course, there's always the concept of whenever you're handling a gun, no matter real or fake or unloaded, you don't point it at a person. >> well, that's exactly right in terms of gun safety, mika. but i think about it this way. though mr. baldwin and the armorer were involved in the same shooting, the same place, the same time, with the same victim, there are differences in two cases, right? the armorer was directly responsible for the weapons on set and making sure they were safe. mr. baldwin was not. if this ends up at trial, if his attorneys aren't able to dismiss the indictment prior to trial, i think you go to hear the argument from them that he relied on her. i'm not sure that the outcome in

one case portends an outcome in the second case. i think they're different enough factually that mr. baldwin's attorneys are going to have room to argue and to maneuver. we know the judge takes this very seriously, and the maximum sentence for an involuntary manslaughter sends a message, certainly to the armorer, but i don't know that you can draw a straight line between what happened to her and what may happen to mr. baldwin. >> all right. former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg, thank you very much. of course, we'll be seeing a lot of you, as well. thank you for coming on once again this morning. coming up, a republican senator advocates for vigilante justice after crowds of pro-palestinian demonstrators blocked roads and bridges in major cities across the country. we'll play for you tom cotton's remarks next on "morning joe."

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 49 past the hour. this was a little startling. republican senator tom cotton of arkansas suggesting americans take matters into their own hands when comes to pro-palestinian protesters. cotton's comments came after crowds of activists protesting the israel-hamas war blocked roads and shut down bridges in major cities, like san francisco, brooklyn, seattle, and chicago yesterday. take a look at what the senator said on fox news. >> i have to say, i agree with you, that you have to get to these criminals early. if something like this happened in arkansas on a bridge there,

let's just say, i think there would be a lot of very wet criminals that have been tossed overboard, not by law enforcement but the people whose road they're blocking. if they glued their hands to a car or the pavement, well, probably painful to have their skin ripped off, but i think that's the way we'd handle it in arkansas. i'd encourage most people anywhere that gets stuck behind criminals like this, who are trying to block traffic, to take matters into their own hands. there's only usually a few of them, and there's a lot of people being inconvenienced. it's time to put an end to this nonsense. i sympathize with law enforcement dealing with this, but it's time for private citizens, being inconvenienced, to solve matters for their own before the police even show up. >> ah, i'm thinking that's a little over the top. >> well, it's beyond that. >> like, what? >> police officers would be the first to say, don't do that. >> please don't say that or do that. >> cops would say, please don't do that. please don't say that. please don't take matters into your own hands.

>> we'll handle it. rip people's skin off? mike, there are a few things -- well, i'll put it this way. i doubt senator cotton is any more exasperated than i am when i see people doing this, blocking people who are going to work or trying to take their kids to a doctor's appointment or trying to make an airplane at o'hare so they can get home in time to see a kid's ball game or a recital, or just to get home to the people they love. there are ways to protest, and there's ways, i think, not to protest. this is extraordinarily counterproductive to any cause you're pushing. but here we have a guy, tom cotton, that went to harvard, undergrad and law school, served

in the military, who is talking about throwing people off the golden gate bridge, ripping their skin off. we had a united states senator go on a network, national network, suggesting that americans rip skin off of people's hands because they're aggravated and take matters into their own hands. this is -- this is just beyond stupid on his part, beyond dangerous on his part, to say this. and i must say, this goes -- tom cotton that used to be on this show, pre-trump, would never have said something like that. >> no. >> tom cotton that we interviewed time and again on this show would have never said anything like this. this shows how violence and violent rhetoric has become normal practice in the republican party. these are the people who are preparing for a guy who has

promised to be a dictator from day one. >> listen, nothing is more infuriating, and i could not measure the anger within me if i were disrupted in terms of getting someone to a hospital, a member of the family, or stuck in traffic because of what they did on the golden gate bridge. >> 100%. >> whatever and wherever it was. but you know what would happen if i get out of my car and grabbed one of the protesters from their cars and threw them off the golden gate bridge? i would be doing 15 to 20 years for manslaughter. there's no doubt about that. >> i mean, that's what he was saying. >> that's what he said. >> throw people off the bridge. >> i wouldn't rip anybody's skin off. >> rib their skin off. >> but it gets to -- eddie glaude and i were talking just prior to coming out here. there was a -- as a matter of fact, i have the numbers. there's a poll taken -- i was just looking at it yesterday. one-third, 34% of americans would like to go and settle in another country if they were free to do so. half of americans, 51% of those

under the age of 35, wants to resettle elsewhere, as do 39% of those 35 to 54 years of age. why is this happening? it's happening because people like tom cotton and people like the guy who is in trial today, downtown manhattan, they continually run this country down. there's something wrong with this country. that there is something going on in this country that is against you and me, average citizens. they have done this. they've roiled the pot in this country to a point where the anger, the unspoken anger of people, the unearned anger of people has disrupted who we are. >> mike, listen, we can't say it enough here. fareed zakaria was on the other day. we went through the numbers. united states military, by far, stronger relative to the rest of the world anytime since 1945. economy is stronger relative to the rest of the world, probably since 1945.

our soft power is stronger than ever before. culturally, we have a bigger influence across the globe. american ideas going across the globe faster, technologically. we are light years ahead of every -- i mean, of our closest competitors. you combine the united states of america with the eu, who also these people hate. combined, we have $55 trillion gdp. russia has $1.4 trillion gdp. china has, like, an $18 trillion gdp. we are so much more powerful, so much stronger than we've ever been. iran, why did iran do what iran did, knowing what the outcome was going to be? they didn't want to screw with the united states of america. donald trump keeps talking about how america sucks. before he got elected, america sucked. then he got elected, suddenly, america was great. then he lost, and now america

sucks again. you're voting for a guy like that? you live in the most powerful, greatest country on the face of the earth, and you're voting for a guy that tells you every day that america sucks? what's wrong with you? who raised you? what history did you read? >> that's it. >> like, where are you from? because you may claim to be from where i'm from, but you were not raised by the same teachers i was raised by. you don't read. because if you read, mike, the facts are clear. i'm getting tired of saying this to people who claim to be patriotic but hate america, because they're always running america down. they're always trashing america. they're always saying america is horrible. its democracy doesn't work. we need a dictatorship if donald trump doesn't win. i'm tired of people running america down. on fox news, and i'll say it, on fox news, they didn't want to show donald trump in trial, so

they got three protests and said, protests shut down america, basically. this weekend, there were, like, four migrants and a hound dog on top of a hill in new mexico. they had their four migrants and a hound dog cam on for hours. right now, i'm looking up the hill. there are two, three -- i think i see a coyote. that's a hound dog, bob. okay, a hound dog. i mean, this is the world they give their viewers. anything to try to make america look bad. they are obsessed on trashing america when america is stronger, more powerful than ever before. its economy is stronger and more powerful than ever before. so what do they do? they find a trans athlete in

utah. the world is coming to an end. help us, jesus. country ain't the country i was raised in. no, it's better. it's stronger. we're more powerful. our military is more powerful. relative to the rest of the world, our economy is stronger. relative to the rest of the world. but you would never know this because they are fed a steady stream of hate america firm rhetoric, which i suppose is why you have the chairman of the house gop saying that some of those dupes and back benchers are actually clinging to pro-russian propaganda and spreading it across their districts, across america, and across the house floor. >> so i want you to try and answer this question for me. it's the question, basically, has this country lost its memory ability? because there's another poll. i had a lot of time on my hands

yesterday. >> you did. >> there was another poll. trump versus biden. 42% are for trump. 29% are for biden. the question was, the differences between life in 2020 and life today in 2024. 42% to 29% that life was better in 2020. at the end of 2020, there were 23 million cases of covid in the united states of america. >> right. >> there were 409,651 deaths at the end of 2020. >> right. >> do people not remember that? >> i mean, eddie? facts don't seem to matter to a lot of people. they keep talking about how horrible america is today. they just have to work really hard to suggest that we're a weak, broken power. as i've said in my travels across the world, the complaints

aren't what they were during the obama administration, which is, oh, you guys are back on your heels. you guys are leading from behind. no, they're saying, you're exerting yourself too much, u.s. you're too powerful. you're controlling our economy this way or our military that way. like, we're out there. >> you know, joe, i was sitting here listening to the conversation, and i was just thinking about all the measures that you just laid out, about american greatness. you're absolutely right. >> by the way, eddie, you're a professor. let me add another. we have problems on college campuses. >> greatest universities and colleges in the world. >> there's not a close second. greatest universities in the world. not a close second. you look at any list, there's not a close second to the united states of america when it comes to higher education. >> absolutely. >> not a close second. >> bar none. >> on any list. >> bar none. i happen to teach at the best one. >> there you go. >> had to sneak that one in there. >> that's right.

>> morehouse? >> i was going to say, joe, all the measures are important, but there is a moral malaise in the country. we're lonely. we're isolated. we fit -- there is a sense of unfulfillment, hatred and grievance. the military power, the culture being consumed around the world, but what's happening in the soul of america? something is -- when i saw what tom cotton said, i sent a tweet. i responded to him. it's not a tweet now. i said, "what is wrong with you?" then you ask that question, your question, which is so important, who raised you? that question, who raised you? >> by the way, i wasn't asking that specifically to tom cotton. >> i know. >> parents, they used to be "morning joe" watchers. i hope you still are. i'm talking generally about these people who hate on america. >> but that question, though,

gets us beyond the economic data, the cultural data, you know, the military power, that takes us to the core of who you take yourself to be. >> i know you raised a lot of these people. as mike said, they have forgotten so much, willie, of what their mom and dad taught them. when they're cheering on a guy that is making fun of people who stutter or people that have infirmary or people who are challenged. i mean, i know a lot of people who were raised by really good parents, who are better than what their parents taught them until they get in front of donald trump. >> i'm also thinking of the times donald trump mocked what happened to paul pelosi, an 82-year-old man being hit over the head with a hammer, and the crowd laughs. you go, really? there are lines, aren't there?

there appears there are no more lines. i agree, tom cotton volunteered for service, served in iraq and afghanistan. he knows right from wrong, honor, service. something changed when they all pledged fealty to donald trump. they have to rally around whatever his voters want to hear or the culture of maga wants to hear. i'd add in to the superlatives of america that you laid out, our friends at axios have a big story, homicides and violent crime are plummeting in the country. in 2014, they were at 30-year lows. the idea that america is a crime-ridden hell hole, of course we all have problems. of course we don't like what's happening in the subways of new york, these random attacks we see. people don't like, of course, having the bridges blocked so they can't see their families or catch a flight. of course, that's all true. you also have to live in the

facts. you also have to live in reality. isolated anecdotal evidence is not the story of what's happening in this country. >> donald trump runs around even going drill, baby, drill. we're producing more oil. i know a lot of people in joe biden's base don't like to hear this. i mean, i'm very concerned about climate, as well, but you can't attack joe biden by saying drill, baby, drill. the united states, what are we, the number one oil producer, number one exporter? >> yeah. >> in the world. we're number one in so many things. i do, rev, want to touch, though, on what eddie said. there's a reason why he's professor at the greatest university in new jersey. [ laughter ] alabama. >> i know, i know. >> that is, i will say, one of the great challenges of our time, that we won't talk about usually here, is loneliness. i will say to you, after being

at your convention last week, you had people coming together from churches. we had a community from across the country coming together in churches. it reminded me of when, you know, we'd get together with other churches and -- or when you'd go to church. i always talked about, you know, sunday school. every week, you know, and filling up the pews every week. if somebody was straying off, they'd say something kind of crazy, we'd go, hey, that's not real. by the way, they'd go, really? no, you need to read up on that. it's just a rumor. then there was a check. instead, you don't have people getting together in the pews. you don't get them together in the synagogues. you don't have them getting together in mosques as much as they used to, churches. it is creating a loneliness

epidemic where people want to hear stuff like that, where people, especially men, lonely, isolated, looking for purpose. that purpose used to be filled every sunday morning or every saturday afternoon by church attendance. it's just not now. >> no, it gives a sense of purpose but of a communal kind of gathering, where you feel like you're not in the world by yourself so you become part of a mob that could be misdirected. i've seen it growing up as a boy preaching. people can misuse it or use it to heal a community. i think that what donald trump has done has misused this whole sense of loneliness, this whole sense of -- >> which was building before donald trump. >> he didn't start it. >> donald trump exploited it. >> right, he exploited it. it gives them a sense of purpose. they're comrades now.

i think the danger of that is where you have a guy like tom cotton who wants to outperform the performer. i mean, this is ludicrous. we all may disagree on certain things, but to say the things he said, a sitting senator, is frightening. i know at our convention, we had one congressman that some people interrupted. i thought they were trumpsters. i didn't know what they were doing, and i reprimanded them. but to say you want to have people do what cotton said is this mob feeling. trump was telling people to beat up hecklers at his rallies, and they were applauding this. it starts with being alone and wanting to be part of something, and whoever becomes the focal point or the leader of that can misdirect that. >> because of donald trump, there is no peer pressure anymore. i'll tell you, if a senator, if a -- of either party, or a member of congress of either party said, "we need to throw people off the bridge, we need

to rip their skin off their hands," any time before trump, that senator would be apologizing this morning. now, won't even leave a mark. >> no, those are the quaint, old days. >> he'll probably raise more money on it. hey, i said we should rip skin off of people and kill them by throwing them off the brooklyn bridge. send $25 to tom cotton for senate right now. >> it's the world we live in. >> can you believe the left-wing media? no, i'm more conservative than tom cotton probably. i don't know what his acu rating is. this is nothing to do with ideology, but that's how they'll playsuggesting that violence is conservative. that's what tom cotton and donald trump are suggesting. that's what the people that use violent rhetoric are suggesting. it's just not. it is the opposite of being conservative. >> the problem is, what january 6th told us, there are no more idle threats. this can't just be written off as inflammatory rhetoric because

there is a group of people in this country who hear the signals and act on it. eddie has a new book out today. we are thrilled. it is titled "we are the leaders we have looking for." eddie looks back at a series of lectures he delivered at harvard over a decade ago that focused on martin luther king jr., malcolm x, and ella baker. eddie explores the question the trio posed, how to fight for justice in a post civil rights era and in today's political climate. eddie writes, quote, at the heart of the book is a simple formulation, almost cliche. if we are going to be the leaders we are looking for, we're going to have to become better people. eddie, congratulations on the book. we've been anticipating this for a long time. it is here today. people can go pick it up today. what did you set out to do? i kind of set the table a little bit, but more specifically, with this book, what'd you want to say? >> you know, really, i think we've outsourced, willie, our responsibility for democracy for too long. we've outsourced it to politicians, outsourced it to so-called prophets and heros,

and we've given over our responsibility, our power. so what i wanted to do, the title comes from ms. ella baker. she used to say, a strong people don't need strong leaders. she wanted us to involve ourselves or engage in politics in such a way that everyday, ordinary people, right, involved, you know, indigenous to the space would emerge as the folk responsible for transforming their lives. so what i try to do in this book is find my own feet, because i'm trying to figure out my relationship to this tradition that made me who i am. who does it mean to be a gen-xer born in the shadow of the 1960s? i think the 1960s, contrary to some folk, that's the greatest generation in my mind. what does it mean to be born in the shadow of them and to try to find my own voice? i had to figure out, what is my relationship to dr. king? what is my relationship to malcolm x? how can i find my particular, signature voice without engaging in suppication to them? these lectures are an attempt,

in some ways, to call people to take responsibility for now, to take responsibility for the future. >> isn't it true, eddie, that you focused on king and malcolm and ella baker, that they did not start out to be leaders? >> yeah. >> they became that because of activism. dr. king left boston university and went to montgomery just to pass the southern church and ran into the situation with rosa parks. he didn't plan rosa parks and plan to do what he did. ella baker doing the work in mississippi. malcolm x finding himself after being a convict. i was raised by some of the king men mentored by him. jesse jackson was a student leader that emerged in this era. i think the critical part of your book is we are the leaders that we have been looking for, that's how the leaders we look up to became the leaders. >> oftentimes what happens with prophets and heros, they become larger than life.

>> yeah. >> we think they have qualities that are beyond us. so then what we do is we follow them. we follow them and give up the hard work of work on ourselves. we don't see, joe, that martin luther king exhibited a courage, doc, that's in me. >> right. >> that this person revealed a kind of character that i'm capable of demonstrating in my own life. instead, we have this nostalgic longing, oh, if only we had fdr today. if only we had dr. king today. no, we need you. part of the challenge is to rid ourselves from being, you know, engaged in supplication, from being fans in the pews to pastors. as opposed to being in the journey, being in the journey. so this book is a radical call for everyday, ordinary people to take control of this democracy and to disrupt a style of leadership in which we give over our power to folk. understand that we, in fact, have the power. >> and we expect too much from

them. once we exalt them, you know, like dr. king didn't say, i wish thurgood marshall was in montgomery. he did it. then we look to the floor and say, oh, i made you this great image, and i find out that you don't wash your feet that well. i mean, we look to break down people rather than lift ourselves up. >> absolutely. >> eddie, this conversation, especially what you were talking about, the two of you, what has happened to us? why have so many americans lost the memory of what this country was and still is, and ignore what the country still is? >> you know, it is a really important point. i think, and i'm following richard slotkin, who has a new book coming out, he said we're in a second lost cause. we're in the midst of a second redemption. what was distinctive about the lost cause and redemption wasn't simply the violence of koufax, louisiana, and wilmington, north

carolina, where there was literally a coup over the state governments, but it was also an assault on how we remembered reconstruction and remembered the past. what's interesting, when i look at the kids in florida, texas, where they're not going to be taught the full scope of our hus history, i get angry about my black and brown children having to learn that, but i get more angry about what's going to happen to white children. you know what? those kids who are taught in the first lost cause, they turned out to be the adults in montgomery. they were the adults in mississippi. they were the adults in louisiana. the folks who engaged in the violence of the second reconstruction. so i think part of what we're dealing with is what frederick douglass called, joe, the horrible reptile in the nation's bosom. in 1852, he said, we must tear it away. we have refused to tear away the serpent, and it is literally eating the nation's entrails

today. >> you talk about, at the heart of this book, the need for us to be better people. >> yeah. >> that is something that republicans used to call personal responsibility. remember? republicans would always talk about personal responsibility, personal responsibility. now, it is victimhood. it's them being snowflakes. it's somebody else is picking on me. i would be better, but somebody else is, you know, taking my place that doesn't deserve it, et cetera, et cetera. again, you say, we have to be better people. >> yeah. >> that goes to the heart of personal responsibility. >> i was -- >> don't look out there, look here. >> you know, jimmy baldwin has this wonderful formulation, and i'm paraphrasing here. he says the messiness of the world is, in fact, a reflection of the mesiness of our interior lives.

that southern sheriff who behaves so badly, he is wounded. he's hurt. so the moral question of who do we take ourselves to be, what kind of human being are you, you know, the question you asked of tom cotton, who raised you? ms. ella baker, when she was losing her memory, when she'd meet somebody, she'd say, "who are your people?" trying to locate you, trying to ground you, trying to put you close to the ground. the moral question, regardless of the politics, the moral question of who do we take ourselves to be? what kind of human being are you? joe, you and i disagree about politics on a number of things. >> right. >> but one of the things i said, i said it on television, you're a decent dude, right? part of what i'm trying to do is not a post idealogical space, but what does it mean to put forward, to foreground the values of decency, love, and care, right? as the bases of our politics. that's going to the heart of what kind of human being you take yourself to be. >> he's a decent dude and can

preach. >> i heard. >> the book is "we are the leaders we have been looking for," and eddie will be back throughout the week to talk about it further. an important book. >> thank you, eddie. house speaker mike johnson unveiled a republican-led foreign aid package yesterday according to three sources familiar with the process. the legislation would include three aid measures with roughly tens of billions of dollars for israel, ukraine, taiwan, and allies in the indo-pacific. a fourth measure would include priorities such as seizing russian assets in the u.s. and a loan/lease program for ukraine and additional sanctions on iran. johnson says his preference is to vote on each bill individually, but we'll let the chamber decide. joining us now, republican member of the house foreign affairs committee, congressman mike lawler of new york. thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. so what are the chances this aid

gets through anytime soon? in the case of ukraine, it has been a long wait. >> thanks for having me, mika. as i've said repeatedly since i took office, we must lead. as leader of the free world, the united states has an obligation to support our allies. between ukraine, israel, and taiwan, the united states must get the aid and support necessary. i think it's been a long time coming, absolutely, but i'm glad the speaker has made the decision to put this on the floor. while it will be four separate bills, my perspective is i'm less concerned about the process and the procedure and more concerned about the end result. we need to get aid to our allies. russia, china, and iran are not our friends. they're not our allies. they have engaged in unwholly alliance to undermine and destabilize the united states,

israel, and the free world, and we must combat this malign effort. >> so i'd love to follow up on that point because it might be the case that some of your colleagues on the republican side seemed to be not in line with that kind of thinking. i'm wondering, these four separate bills, for this aid, will you be able to get the republican members of congress on the same page, to get this aid through? >> well, i think what you're seeing, frankly, on both sides are challenges. i think the democrats have a major challenge on aid to israel. we'll see how many of my democratic colleagues support that. obviously, we have had consternation within our conference on ukraine. as i have said repeatedly, when you look at what is happening around the globe, these things cannot be taken up as silos. they have to be viewed in the

context of the greater conflict. china is the biggest purchaser of iranian petroleum. it is why i introduced the ship act last year and passed it through the house. finally, the senate will be taking this bill up. it's why, yesterday, we passed the iran/china energy act, to go after the financial institutions in china which are faciitaing this illicit oil trade. $88 billion in increased revenue to iran since joe biden took office. these sanctions are critically important. you look at what is happening, where iran is the greatest state sponsor of terror. it is using the funds from this illicit oil train to fund hamas, hezbollah, the houthis, and now a direct assault on israel. as i've said repeatedly, you know, my wife is from moldova. her family lives on the ukraine border. i have no doubt, if ukraine falls, these former soviet satellite states will fall with

it. that is a calamity that none of us can afford in the united states or in europe, and so, you know, we must lead. if we fail to lead in this moment, we will be viewed like neville chamberlain was in the lead up to world war ii. >> congressman -- >> -- winston churchill. >> congressman, you're actually sounding like a conservative republican, and i haven't heard that out of the house often on this issue. by the way, you have "the wall street journal" editorial pages consistently chiding people inside your conference who have been pushing back on doing the very things you're talking about right now. sometimes a sense of perspective is needed, and if you would be kind enough to take us into the house conference. i understand you have people that spout vladimir putin's

talking points and russian propaganda, but we also talk about the house intel chair. we also talk about the house foreign affairs chair, mccaul, who both have been strong, fierce advocates for ukraine from the start. and, like you, they take what i consider at least to be a traditional conservative stance. i'm curious, inside the caucus, how big of a split is there? are there 50%, 40%, 30% who are doing vladimir putin's bidding, spewing his talking points? is it 5%? or do most republicans support defending ukraine against russian aggression. >> it is a significantly small number, but, unfortunately, a loud number. i think what you have seen, you know, with chairman mccaul's comments, chairman turner's comments, and what speaker

johnson is saying, the republican conference as a whole, the vast majority of members support -- >> can i ask -- >> -- want aid to our allies. >> -- why has it taken the speaker so long? ukrainians have been dying. what he said yesterday is what you've been saying all along. why did it take him so long to get there? >> yes. look, to be fair to the speaker, i think he walked into a very difficult situation, inherited a conference that obviously was broken. a lot of infighting. we had a lot of things that needed to get, you know, out the door, including the appropriations package. obviously, if we want to provide aid to our allies, we need to be able to fund our own government. getting the appropriations work done was critically important. getting fisa reauthorized last week, critically important. now, here we are with the aid for our allies. i would have liked to have seen this done a lot sooner,

obviously. the house passed aid to israel back in november of last year. it is not that we have not moved legislation, but, obviously, there's been a lot of consternation. when you look at some of the challenges that we're facing across the globe, you know, with all respect, i think joe biden has made several mistakes in the lead up to the conflict in the middle east, including lifting some of the sanctions against iran. iran is the greatest state sponsor of terror, and they need to be held accountable. $88 billion in increased revenue to iran through the illicit oil trade is unconscionable. that's why i passed the ship act through the house last october. chuck schumer and senate democrats need to move the ship act immediately so we can apply secondary sanctions to china, the greatest purchaser of iranian petroleum. they purchase 80% of it. so this is -- you know, we have to look at this in totality.

it's not just ukraine. it's not just israel. it's not just taiwan. the united states must lead a concerted effort to support the free world and take on those whose entire purpose is to undermine and destabilize the united states. >> briefly, congressman, it is one thing to have the proposed legislation out there from the speaker, which he's broken into four parts to get the foreign aid out the door, instead of in one, big foreign aid package. it is another thing entirely to pass them through the house, as you know, given the narrow margins you have there. are you confident all, some, maybe just ukraine, will make it through the house? >> they have to. this is where republicans and democrats have to work together. you look at the fact that we are in a divided government. the senate will have to pass things. the president, obviously, a democrat. republicans and democrats in the house will have to work together to pass these bills. you know, the speaker has laid

it out. there will be an up or down vote on each. people can vote their conscious. if some of my colleagues are opposed to ukraine, get on the record. some democratic colleagues are opposed to israel, they can be on the record. we must pass the bills and give aid to our allies. if we fail in this obligation, we fail to be the leader of the free world, and the consequences of that will be dire across the globe. >> all right. we'll be watching closely. congressman mike lawler of new york, thanks for your time your honor. this morning. >> thank you. let's bring in david ignatius and former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense, jeremy bash. good morning to you both. great to have you with us. david, i want to start on the question based on what you've heard from kyiv, but more importantly there in washington, about the potential for this aid finally getting through after months and months of waiting, are folks optimistic that it is going? what is the impact on the war, if so? >> willie, the word i'd use is

desperate. that aid is needed critically right now. i watched as president zelenskyy drew me a little map on a piece of paper about how he's going to have to retreat, shrink his lines, because he simply doesn't have enough ammunition to be able to hold the line that he's got. we have reports now of ammunition shortages becoming so severe, that that retreat is accelerating. you know, when you have members of the ukraine military, i'm told, looking at their cell phones to see what's the latest news from congress, i mean, you have a picture of people who absolutely depend on our legislators to do the right thing. i like hearing what mike lawler had to say just now. i hope he has it right. but the time for this to pass is a month ago. they need it now. >> jeremy, how bad of a situation are the ukrainian fighters in? >> yeah, joe, they, as david

pointed out, desperately need ammunition. i mean, russia has felt emboldened. i think russia has felt emboldened by congress' inaction, by some of the rhetoric coming out of the west. i think, you know, these components of ukraine's defenses really are their ability to knock out the drones from iran that are being sent to the battle space in ukraine. they obviously need additional 155 shells. they need other weapons. they need air defenses. they need additional training for their f-16 pilots. i think in the middle east, what we saw over the weekend is when a coalition comes together, you can provide air space defense. you can provide capabilities to protect a population and retain the decision space for decision-makers. happens to be in the israel context but there is no reason why that paradigm also couldn't be applied to ukraine. >> david, let me ask you about

the response to iran's attacks on israel. it is -- well, to outside observers, it is remarkable that arab allies pitched in. not remarkable to you. not remarkable to people that have been reporting across the middle east. a lot of sunni arab nations and leaders want this to work out, that want to help. they've even told me, we will be there to rebuild gaza, but the united states needs to be with us. >> joe, what happened saturday night was, as senior administration official told us, a spectacular success. to knock 300 plus munitions out of the sky in a period of a dozen minutes. 100 ballistic missiles threatening to overwhelming the system. to successfully destroy that

attack, 99%, was extraordinary. israel had help from the united states. it had help from france and britain. crucially, it had help from what is now an integrated air defense system across the arab world. that includes jordan, saudi arabia, other gulf of states. their radars were integrated. they see the same iranian threats coming. you know, it's a picture of the new middle east from an air defense standpoint, if you will. >> david, can you -- >> the question -- >> stop for just a second and talk about how extraordinary that would have been even ten years ago, fifteen years ago. you have arab nations now in the middle of the worst israel war, the longest israeli war since '73, but just how -- what a radical shift that is. since about 2004/2005, how most of our arab neighbors, our

allies see iran as a greater threat to their existence than israel. >> so, joe, we have had, you know, several decades of arab wars against iran. remember, iran attacking saudi oil platforms, and there was no response, nothing. if you'd had, you know, clear integration of forces, common defense, i think the chance of that would have been much less. i have to hand it here. i'll be honest, i have to hand it to president trump and to his son-in-law, jared kushner, who are the people who got the abraham accords done. that was a key breakthrough in this process. you can find all kinds of faults with it, but the fact is, for the uae, bahrain, other countries openly to be working with israel was a significant achievement.

you know, good on that. it needs to be taken further now. the dilemma, joe, that i encountered yesterday was after this extraordinary victory, if you will, on saturday night, shooting down the 300 iranian munitions, the question was, should israel take the win? is that it? you know, everybody loves us. we've shown how incredible our military is. should we just let it go at that? i began getting calls from israeli officials yesterday afternoon saying, "david, we've decided that defense by itself isn't enough. iran has crossed a red line, and we have got to do something." that's where we are today, with iran trying to decide, what's the action we should take that won't escalate this crisis? >> jeremy, we're talking about allies here, obviously. if we're going to list allies of the united states, we have many. great britain, canada, australia, japan, strong allies. where, today, after the last six months, would you place israel as an ally?

strong, mediocre, israel? >> very strong. i think israel is our principal and most dependable ally in the middle east. it is obviously the only democracy in the middle east. yeah, there are tactical differences on the ground. let's not paper over those, about how to conduct a particular counterterrorism set of operations in gaza. you see the conversations between the biden team and the netanyahu government. in some cases, showcased in public. most happen privately behind closed doors. but israel remains an incredibly significant ally for the united states. we provide israel enormous capabilities. in the fight over the weekend, our combat systems, f-15s, f-16s, patriot missile systems out of irbil were instrumental in protecting israel and preventing a wider far. the f-35 strike fighters, iron dome developed between the united states and israel. this is an absolutely integral

partnership between the united states and israel, not to to protect israel but america's interest in the middle east. >> former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense, jeremy bash, and "the washington post"'s david ignatius, thank you, both, very much for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," we're about two hours away from the start of day two in jury selection for donald trump's hush money trial. we'll get a live report from outside the courthouse. first, our next guest is asking the question, what are the qualities we look for in a leader? presidential historian doris kearns goodwin is back with us to add some important perspective. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪♪ oh, yeah, man. take it from your inner child. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what?

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who is this? >> the secretary with dick good win. he came three years ago. he was the law clerk. he had a brilliant record at harvard law school and has been working as an assistant. he's been concerned with latin america, which has been a matter of special interest to us. therefore, our program in latin america and its implementation now have fallen into dictator's hands. >> wow, that is president john k. kennedy speaking to nbc news in 1961 about a young staffer named dick goodwin. joining us now, presidential historian doris kearns goodwin. her book is titled "an unfinished love story," part memoir, part biography of her and her late husband, dick goodwin. you've written a lot of books but this one is special for obvious reasons. we were just talking about boxes

and boxes that dick had from his years serving under president kennedy. how did you approach such a personal project differently, obviously, than the other biographies you've written? >> it started because he saved 300 boxes that were a time capsule of the '60s. he not only worked for john kennedy but working with jackie kennedy, with lbj as the chief speechwriter, was with senator mccarthy in new hampshire, was was bobby when he died. he wouldn't open the boxes. i knew there was great stuff in them. he was so sad at the way the decade ended. martin luther king killed. he was with bobby kennedy when he died. the riots in the streets and the violence and the anti-war movement. finally, he turns 80, comes down the stairs, "it's time, it's time, now or never, if i have any wisdom to dispense." we spent the last years of his life reliving the '60s, reliving our youth. i was in my 70s when he did this, he in his 80s. we started with kennedy and went up to the end of the decade together. >> you know, at one point, he

did show me something out of the boxes. dick and i were talking about the war and lyndon johnson. he went and got an old speech that he had written for lyndon johnson prior to his departure. he had notations on the side indicating, you know, he didn't know which way johnson would go on the war, but we now know. what was dick's mood then, that you reflected on, having looked at everything in the boxes, his mood toward lyndon johnson and the increased escalation of vietnam? >> one of the things that happened for dick and me was i was such a johnson loyalist. i ended up working for him in the last days of his white house and then helped him on his memoirs. while i had been an anti-war activist, i had great respect for what he did, medicare, medicaid, education, and dick was resenting johnson after the war. he was involved in doing the

selma speech right after bloody sunday. it was dick's proudest moment in public life. the incredible joint session speech. after the speech was over, johnson went out for voting rights, talked about the idea of what america stood for and how we had the freedom writers and the people who were marching were the real heros, they'd made this happen. he said, god, how i love lyndon johnson. i never could have imagined two years ago, i'd be marching against him in the streets. >> we shall overcome. >> that was the moment when, as you know, he went out. we was working on the speech. he had only that day to work on the speech, nine hours. he comes in at 9:00, has to be ready at 6:00. he put the watch away, as if he wouldn't have to worry about time. he kept working, pages were going out to lyndon johnson who was screaming outside, but knows he can't pressure dick because he only has that day for the speech. he takes a speech. mike and he used to smoke cigars together. he heard these young people singing, "we shall overcome."

he added that passage into the speech, after talking about not a northern or southern problem, not a states right problem, not a constitutional problem. the constitutional command is clear, it's not even a moral problem to deny your fellow americans the right to vote. it is wrong, dead wrong. he was able to say, but even if we get this done, the full blessings will take a lot longer, but we have to fight for it. we shall overcome. that's the moment when change happens. as you know, eddie, when the outside movement fires the conscience of the people, we loved him so much. then he was angry the war undid a lot of that. you saw us in the last years, mike. he retained a remembrance of what was great about lyndon johnson, great about the country before the war, and he came to terms with johnson. it made him a happier person. it made him feel fulfilled that he'd done something that mattersered, that the country did something great, and it was all there despite the war in vietnam. >> we have an extraordinary

audio clip. this is a 1964 conversation between president johnson and his press secretary, bill moiers. it was this conversation that sets the stage for dick goodwin's return to the white house, though he wouldn't know it took place until decades later. >> we got no one that can be phonetic, get rhythm. >> the only person i know who can, and i'm reluctant to ask him to get involved in this because right now it's in our little circle, is goodwin. >> just ask him. can he put some sex in it? some rhyme in it? beautiful churchillian phrases, take it and turn it up tomorrow. just take off the day. if it will, we'll use it. but ask him if he can do it in confidence. call him tonight and say, i want to bring it to you. now, i've got it ready to go, but he wants you to work on it if you can do it without getting in the column. >> i'll call him right now. >> gentlemen, i'mimpressed with

him. he's working on latin america already, see how he's getting along. but can he put the music to it? >> can he put the music to it? can he put a little sex in it? as we said, dick didn't know that conversation had taken place until much later. what do you think when you hear that conversation? >> it's great. we were like nosey neighbors listening on the party line. he realized, this got me to go to work for lbj. not long after that conversation, dick is called to a meeting by bill with johnson. he wanted the program, what it'd be. he wanted his own johnson program. the meeting took place in a pool rather than the office. they come, and johnson is swimming naked in the pool. >> wow. >> there's bill and dick standing with suits on. they don't have bathing suits. he comes, come in, boys, don't be squeamish. he says, i want to have my own program. and they outline what will be the great society.

that becomes the first big speech that my husband worked on. he comes up with the phrase, great society, but it has in it medicare, medicaid, age to education, everything that will be the 89th congress. it started naked in the pool, paddling up and down. >> that's some image, doris. >> for the history nerds. >> now you know the rest of the story. well, thank you, doris. tomorrow, we will get to the points we wanted to get to, but this was far too interesting, especially figuring out where all the greatest programs of the 20th century started, in that pool. >> in the pool. >> thank you. the new book is "an unfinished love story, a personal history of the 1960s" and goes on sale today. >> we'll see you again all week, doris. >> all week. i'll be with you. thank you, thank you. still ahead this morning, taking a stand against donald trump comes at a price for conservatives. it happened to our next guest when she refused to support the former president. author nancy french writes about

that experience in her new book, "ghosted, an american story," and joins us next on "morning joe." really, it's all of us who must overcome the crippling legacy of bigotry and injustice. and we shall overcome.

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52 past the hour. welcome back. our next guest made a name for herself behind the scenes as a new york sometimes bestselling

"ghost rider" for conservative political figures, includingan romney and sarah palin's daughter bristol. when nancy trench was not willing to endorse donald trump, she found herself out of work. with allies shunning her, republicans mocking her, white nationalists targeting her, and her church community alienating her. in a new memoir out today entitled "ghosted," an american story, french writes, quote, the religious right, which i defended my whole life, had abandoned the posture of family values when they had the chance to gain a seat at the table. confused me to hear the values preached from the podium, but ignored in real life. it was all a lie, and so was the lesser of two evils myth. and, joe, nancy joins us now. this book, joe, is a fascinating

personal look at trumpism versus true conservatism. we have david on the show all the time. but the better half is finally on "morning joe" this morning, i got to say, usually when somebody comes on the show and they have a book, i am leaning forward. here i am, like, oh, this is too familiar. >> yes. >> this is so familiar. i mean, unfortunately, you and david and i have had similar backgrounds growing up, the church. but all of these people that were your friends, and even in your community, even closer than friends, in your church community, just abandoned you. >> right, yeah. >> the day you decided not to follow along and support a guy who said he never had the need to ask jesus for forgiveness.

>> right, right. i know, the title. book is "ghosted" because i have been ghost writer and all these groups of people who i thought would support me, turned their back on me whenever i made that decision not to support trump. it was pretty shocking. >> right. walk us through, if you will, just how tight you were in the conservative community. you were a ghost writer. you were constantly, clients constantly calling you asking you to help. you didn't change your viewpoint. >> not mine. >> they changed theirs. >> i grew up with ronald reagan on my wall. i loved him so much. when i got to be employable, i decided to be a ghost writer and worked with the best people in the republican party, most prominent people in the republican party. i lived with sarah palin in alaska for a month, which was very dramatic and fun and cold and she made me moose hot dogs

and casseroles and stuff. that was exciting. in 2012, david french won the ronald reagan award at cpac. we would never be invited back again. that was -- they were like this is the best that conservatism has to offer. we were standing on stage and receiving applause. we have never been back. now we are about as popular as head lice in the republican party. >> people i grew up with, people you have known. it's just donald trump. completely changed them. >> i am curious when you saw the change. i think back to the summer of 2015 when conservatives and republicans i am friends with and know and we would talk and they would mock donald trump. wall street guys, who would say he is a joke, and then the summer of 2016 it was like a 1780. they were fully onboard, whether it was hilary for some of them or they liked the way he was talking, he is unfiltered and

saying the things we are not allowed to say anymore. i saw it flip there. where did you see it in this last decade or so politically? >> i was a huge "celebrity apprentice"is fan. i loved watching him on team. then i was alarmed. i realized every one was colissing behind him, when he was jocking john mccain for being a prisoner of war. i was at church scrolling ap-twitter at church and i saw that and i read to my friends and i thought that -- because these are people who supported the troops, my husband when he was deployed to iraq, they made us boxes, they are patriotic. i thought they would be alarmed but they laughed. as a ghost writer i have to be aware of what conservatives think and at that moment i realized i was out of step. i was, like, i do not know what conservatives thinks. we used to support the military,

never knock someone for being valorous. i realized i was out of step, i wasn't going to be able to convey conservative ideas anymore. >> nancy, you have already had a full life. >> right. >> in this book, looking at this book. but part of your life growing up was pretty brutal, growing up in appalachia, some ugly things happened to you. you meet david french, your husband. did he change your life, save your life? what did you do with you? >> yeah, both. he is amazing. i appreciate him so much because he walked into my life. he told me -- he actually told me about god in a way that you understood. a lot of times you gr to church and you feel like you are walking into a movie with ten minutes to go and you don't know who the characters are or what is happening. he explained god. i was able to have faith because of him. he is really fun. we got married quickly. i detail this in the book. he was like a complete stranger and we got married three months

later. told someone then i would never tire of talking to him. 28 years later it is completely true. >> and you started getting phone calls, didn't you? >> i did. >> tell the story about the phone calls you kept getting after you married this guy. >> david french, we get married over everyone's protest. we rkd moved to new york randomly. the phone started ringing. it was always the sexy women with the sultry voices. they were asked to speak to david. it happened repeatedly. i would say he is not here. then at 3:00 in the morning, 4:00 in the morning. and one time this lady started crying. she was, like, i just saw him last night. i was thinking what do you mean you saw him last night? where? at a club in soho. he works at a law firm in midtown. are you sure you are talking about the same david, he is tall, he is blonde, he wrote down his number, it was our number. i hung up the phone and this

catch -- it kept going three weeks, women constantly calling. david was nonplused because he was working so much and when he would come home i would give him a list and he'd say, these are the calls that you missed. he'd say, i don't know a desiree. i was like, oh, my gosh, i made the biggest mistake. this guy is a skound result. then eventually a man called he was, like, could i speak to david. it was david lee roth's agent. and david lee roth apparently they were randomly assigned his number. and he was -- >> can you believe that? >> he was still using it. he was, like, meeting women across manhattan and giving -- so david french eventually started breaking up with them over the phone. they'd say, do a lot of women call here? yes, so sorry. they cry. he golden state, it's okay. okay. >> david lee roth. >> yeah. >> let me ask you this. i relate, obviously, i didn't come out of the right, but grew

up a preacher. but one of the things that came to talk about is meeting eadvantages list preachers that didn't live by what they preached. as you began to see people move away from you when you went with donald trump, did you feel that they really didn't believe in the conservatism and the reagan kind of conservativism that you did, or did you feel they were frauds all along and they would go with what was popular? how did you negotiate that in your own head? >> i think about it to this day. i wonder if they were lying the whole time or if -- like i think if you put them under a lie detector test, they would say they believe in the conservative principles. i wonder if it's a "lord of the rings" gollum type of thing, they want the ring of power and they will do anything to get that, so they will compromise. but they don't view as that.

>> but what is it? your friends that you grew up with in church, david's friends, my friends, what is it? they are not getting the power. everything he does is the anthesis of everything we were taught. you go down the beatitudes. he is the opposite of everything our parents pushed us to be, and again the key, the one we fall short, ask for forgiveness. that is the center of our faith. yet, he says, i don't need to ask for forgiveness. i have never done anything wrong. >> it's shocking. >> how -- i just -- i still don't know what's in it for them to turn their back on everything that they have been taught. >> you know, i think it's probably because we hate the other side so much. there is so much political acrimony. when you grow up, you know, you learn about the clintons. i grew up listening to rush limbaugh. you know, like, so you get in this line of shot where you will

do anything to defeat the enemy, your perceived political enemy. really, there are no political enemies. we are all americans. we should be able to work together. >> and that's when you talk about the lie of the lesser of two evils? >> right. >> and that's where we are? >> right. don't choose evil. there is a third option. >> all right. the new book is title "ghosted" an american story. such an important book to read to understand what's going on right now. it's on sale today. nancy french, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> and tell david that i really loved his work in panama. the song. a great video. starts talking about pulling the seat back, you know? >> that might be the wrong david. >> is it? >> i think so. >> all right. with that, the third hour of "morning joe" starts right now. trump was in pennsylvania.

he took a moment to talk about local history. >> gettysburg, what an unbelievable battle that was, the battle of go gettysburg. what an unbelievable -- i mean, so much and so interesting and so vicious and horrible and so beautiful in so many different ways. it represented such a big portion of the success of this country. gettysburg. wow. i go to gettysburg, pennsylvania, to look and to watch. >> what a stirring orator. i look forward to ken burns' updated documentary. >> my dearest martha, wow. today we fought at gettysburg. it was so much and so interesting and so vicious and so beautiful and in so many ways, all worth it to protect every person, woman, man, camera, and future tv, for as it says in the declaration of

independence, all men are endowed with certain rights that are -- babbel babbel, babbel, babbel. forget it, i'm dead. >> that was pretty good. >> the original, though, how could you top the original? donald trump's speech? >> i don't know. >> wow. so interesting. so wow. >> who says that? >> so much. it was so much. >> so much. >> i go to watch. >> i don't know what to say. >> wow. >> so much. >> what's going on? >> what's going through his mind? >> not much. not much. >> but president biden is in cognitive decline. the argument is that he can't talk his way out of a paper bag. watch any donald trump rally. >> yeah, there is no -- there is no comparison on any of these front. he is -- he is just rambling.

i mean, i guess -- i guess, jonathan, he is lucky he is going to be in court for several weeks and can't do any more damage to himself on the trail? >> that's right. limit the gaffes. yeah, we had president biden on the road this week. former president trump will be in a new york courtroom every day. when he is out on the trail as he was in pennsylvania over the weekend, gettysburg. wow. that's it. >> so much. >> that's where we are. also the president emeritus of the council on foreign relations richard haass and eugene robinson. i don't know what else to say, other than, mika, wow. yeah. >> so much. >> so much. >> well, actually, there is this to say. history was made yesterday as

former president trump is set to be back in court later this morning for day two. >> wow. >> of his hush money criminal trial. criminal trial. after the first day ended with no jurors selected for the panel of 12 and six alternates, 18 total. the court spent much of the morning reviewing several motions before moving on to the jury selection process. one of the motions included trump's request that the judge recuse himself from the trial. the judge ruled against it. the judge also denied any changes to the jury questionnaire. he then denied prosecutors' requests to bring in other allegations of certain assault against trump, calling them complete hearsay. the "access hollywood" tape will not be admissible in court, but the transcript can be used. the judge also barred prosecutors from introducing the video of trump's deposition in

the e. jean carroll case. the jury selection process began then after lunch, a total of 500 potential candidates reported to the courthouse. of those, the first batch of 96 were brought into the courtroom for questioning. more than half, 50 potential jurors said they could not be impartial or could not other size serve and were immediately dismissed. reporters noted it that trump watched the potential jurors at times, turning to smirk at them at one point, and several potential jurors in the jury box appeared to frequently stare at trump while the judge introduced the case. the process gets back underway later this morning. jury selection could take up to two weeks or more due to the large pool of prospective jurors. they brought like 6,000 to the courthouse. there were other cases happening as well, joe. of course, we have a full set of legal experts lined up this morning to take a bigger look at what's going on at the manhattan courthouse with the former

president. >> right. we will be talking to rosenberg and lisa rubin in a moment. willie, no surprise at all that they are going to have trouble finding jurors. this could take a long time. >> yeah, looking at the questionnaire, do you have any strong opinions or firmly held beliefs about former president donald trump? hard to find someone in 2024 who doesn't have some view of donald trump one way or another. they are just throwing out jurors by the dozens because they say, yes, of course, i have strong views about donald trump. >> it is something. a criminal case, the president going to the courtroom for a criminal case where he has to sit for the next however many weeks and go through the trial. >> yeah, reality has arrived. he doesn't have a choice. we heard trump yesterday afterwards complain that the judge wouldn't let him leave to

attend his son's high school graduation, to leave, to attend the supreme court oral arguments set for next week. the judge is like, that's not how this works. we are going to treat you like everyone else. you are a criminal defendant. you have to be here. the judge could issue a waiver perhaps for the graduation, he doesn't have to. we could see the frustration from trump was obvious in the truth social post afterwards, demeanor in court, reporters are allowed in the room. suggested he looked frustration at times. he closed his eyes. we don't know if he was asleep. he closed his eyes -- >> hold on a second. you are saying that trump -- the standard for judging joe biden when he closes his eyes and prays at a memorial service in hawaii that he is sleepy and dopy? i saw something, a headline, i won't say what the newspaper was. but as i -- ok. i have to see.

it says biden, whatever, walking across the white house lawn. using their standard they would say -- if joe biden did that in a courtroom, they would say he was comatose and had to be rushed, you know, bellevue or something like that. yeah. trump. but trump, obviously, though, we can -- we don't have to be the bill o'reilly. what did he have? >> the body language? >> we don't have to be that. you can look at his face and see the weight of all of this is finally weighing down on him. >> no question. we spoke to one of the legal experts on "way too early" early who notes sitting in the trial, it is training. you are there seven, eight hours. takes a toll on anyone, particularly someone in his late 70s under a lot of pressure right now. so that is a real thing. otherwise, yesterday proceeded as expected, willie. proceeded as a matter of

routine. that doesn't take away the history of. the first time a former president and about to be presidential nominee sitting as a criminal defendant. >> it will be a long trial. we got a window yesterday. the jury selection looks like that could take weeks before we even get to introducing evidence and conducting the trial. so he will be there a long time. remember, this is just one of several trials ahead for him this year. >> gen robinson, a lot of people have said that the system doesn't work, donald trump is above the law. he has been that way most of his adult life, all of his adult life. you wrote that yesterday proves he is not above the law. >> yeah, the system is actually working. it's taken it a while. it's taken a while for any of these four criminal cases to actually get to a courtroom for trial. and this is the first one. the prosecutor alvin bragg found

these felony charges against donald trump and the process moved on. he was prepared, bragg let the federal cases go first, or the georgia case. those got delayed thats to donald trump's machinations mostly, and so here we are. and, you know, to quote the great orator about the first kay, wow, it was so much. i mean, it was -- it was fascinating and kind of riveting as he sat there in a courtroom where he is going to be day after day after day. there was a point, reportedly, at which i seemed to kind of lose it at his attorney, doug blanch. maybe blanch wasn't fighting

hard enough on some point of procedure or producing some documents. trump seemed to really get cross with him right after lunch. and so you have got to wonder how long he is going to be contained in that defendant's chair and whether he actually blows at some point and gets himself into deeper trouble with the judge. >> yeah, it's an exhausting process. we have chose rosenberg and lisa rubin stand big to talk about where this is headed. there is other news to cover this morning, including a potentially significant development on capitol hill. house speaker mike johnson unveiled a republican-led foreign aid package yesterday according to three sources familiar with the process. the legislation would include three aid measures with roughly tens of billions of dollars for israel, ukraine, taiwan, and allies in the indo-pacific. a fourth measure would include

national security priorities such as season russian assets in the u.s., a lone lease program for ukraine and additional sanctions on iran. johnson says his preference is to vote on each bill individually but will let the chamber decide. >> there are precipitating events around the globe we are watching carefully. we know the world is watching us to see how we react. we have terrorists and tyrants and terrible leaders around the world like putin and xi and iran and we are watching to see if american will stand up for allies and our interests around the globe and we will. >> well, they haven't. i am very glad he said that. and i hope that he actually comes through with a clean aid bill to ukraine. they haven't said it, but they are talking about it now. what's it look like?

richard? >> look, i don't much care whether it's a combined bill or separate bill to long as the aid for ukraine passes. that's the most pressing of all of that. every day the battlefield news is awful. strategically, mostly on human terms. you have soldiers on the front lines who have a half dozen shells and they have to parcel them out to get through the day. it's tilting in russia's favor. this is recklessness and irresponsibility on steroids that we have reached this point. i am hoping -- to me it doesn't matter whether it's loans or grants. just get ukraine the military aid. more and sooner. obviously, there is going to be a compromise here. it will be less than ukraine wants and needs. so, obviously, later, some of the economic terms won't be as generous. that's the price of getting it, let's pay the price. >> admiral trevidas.

your thoughts on this aid? >> i'm with richard. get it done. and, frankly, it doesn't matter whether it's linked together. i can make a good argument that they all kind of fit together. at this point, without question the racehorse that needs to be in the pole position is ukraine. look, the israelis are not going to be defeated by hamas. certainly china is a longer-term problem. the one that matters now, now, now is getting the aid to ukraine. it's a military imperative. the only bright spots in ukraine are the hits against russian black sea fleet at sea have been quite effective. other than that, the ukrainians are on their back foot both in the air and on the land. good news. they are going to add f-16s over the next couple of months but

that will not tip this balance without the bread and butter of hard-core ammunition for the battlefield, particularly artillery shells. got to get done. final thought. to draw a line under something the speaker said, which is the world is watching. it is watching. >> it is watching, and it's -- this is good news, jonathan, obviously, if the aid gets to our allies. a lot of democrats have been making this exact argument for months and months and months, which is beijing is watching what we do in ukraine. mike johnson who stood in the way is now to making the same arguments. the munitions are being made in america. we been saying on this show for months and months and months. so speaker johnson coming around late to all the cases that people have been making for foreign aid to ukraine, israel and taiwan. >> yeah. this is far from a sure thing to get done here. first of all, the fourth bill we don't know much about, would

include related measures from tiktok, seizing assets from russian oligarchs, so on. the white house deeply opposes this idea. the point was to combine this thinking they have a better chance to get ukraine funding through if attached to israel. israel has a lot of momentum in the wake of the weekend's attacks. it's not clear that johnson has the votes. a number of republicans are still opposed to this. in order to placate the hard right republicans even if he is able to get support in the house, is probably going to need including provisions that are non-start ners the senate. they will have to go back there and that seems a dire that that could get done. the fact that skraun is taking the step is endangering his speakership. marjorie taylor greene rage declaring to a betrayal -- >> yeah, but again you said hard right. you can't say that anymore, willie, when members of the

republican house gop are saying they are putin propagandists. leaders of the republican party's foreign policy policy apa rattis inside the house are saying become dupes to russian disinformation -- i don't know, are they dupes? why would somebody from northern georgia start spouting russian propaganda points? i don't understand though why politicians from dalton,

georgia, are spewing talking points from vladimir putin and r.t. very strange times when -- i'm not saying this. i'm quoting the republican who runs the intel committee who is saying this. i'm quoting the republican who runs the foreign affairs committee for saying this. very strange times indeed in the republican house. >> mike turner, the chair of the intel committee, republican, said publicly on an interview on cnn last week he hears direct russian propaganda from the mouths of the republicans on the floor of the house. that's from him. he is a republican talking about his colleagues there. and it is a fair question. why? >> why? >> what is the -- what's going on? you could take that argument, as we have, i don't know, almost a decade to the top. why does donald trump defend vladimir putin at every turn? we have never fully gotten to the bottom of that.

seems many of his minions in the house are following the lead on that. >> richard, why? >> we have been debating that ten years now? >> i know. but now you have the four -- ronald reagan's former party being run by -- by a speaker who has been worried about russian propagandists. again, russian propagandists according to head of the house gop intel committee. >> a couple of reasons. one is the isolationism in the republican party is powerful. the virus has come out. it's got a lot of political appeal. there is a lot of, you know, a lot of the support for republicans, particularly white christians, a lot of support for russia. you see the websites, visceral support for putin. and putinism. inability -- if joe biden wants it, republicans have to oppose it. i can come up with lots of reasons. bottom line, joe, it risks american national security.

these people, they use the word patriot 24/7. this is about as unpatriotic as you get. >> unless you are talking about russian patriotism. spewing russia propaganda talking points according to the gop intel chief and the head of the foreign affairs commit in the house republican party. >> it is a strange number one issue. why is this their number one issue? >> why? >> i don't understand. perhaps we will find out. >> it is bizarre. >> u.s. expects israel's response to iran to be limited in scope. just like, i've got to say, we predicted here that iran's response would be limited enough because iran talks big. iran doesn't want to let's just say find out. they don't want to find out. they don't want to find out what the response from the united states will be if they open up the door to a widespread war.

>> mess around and find out? >> mess around and fight out is what the kids say. >> yeah. we're hearing at nbc news according to four u.s. officials retaliatory actions from israel likely will involve strikes against iranian military forces and proxies outside iran. conversations that took place on saturday, iran fired more than 300 missiles and drones at israel. 99% of them were either intercepted or shot town by israel, the united states with the help of some arab allies in the u.k. as well. the attack in reaction to an israeli strike earlier this month in syria in which several iranian leaders were killed. asking to show restraint. the war cabinet met yesterday for the second time in less than 24 hours. a government spokesperson says israel, quote, retains all its options and reserves the right to do everything it can to defend the country. officials have not yet provided

any detail on which options are being considered. so admiral stavridis, obviously, iran could have inflicted more damage than it did. 99% of the missiles and drones were interpreted. no casualties either. so what do you kpcht now from israel? do you think they will heed the advice and warnings from the united states here? >> the way i'm thinking about it, and i suspect the way it's being briefed to the war cabinet is, look, there are four options here. one is go big. major, major strikes. jets whistling over tehran. go after the nuclear program. a big, big strike against the homeland. option two, which is what we're discussing, and i think we will end up with, would be some level of response, probably against the homeland, much more limited.

perhaps going after the manufacturing site for the drones or something that would smack of proportionality. so a more limited strike, but against the homeland. option three would be strikes against proxies, strikes against non-homeland targets. that could include, for example, using cyber to go after the iranian economy. it could include maritime. you know the admiral is going to say that. you can go after the iranian warships at sea that are supporting the houthis, both with intelligence and supply. and finally, final option would be very, very strained kind of take the narrative high road. if you ask me to bet where it lands, i think they'll do some combination of option two and three. there will be some strike, i think, against a homeland target. it's almost irresistible for the

israelis. but they will certainly take that more limited package i described, cyber, maritime, special forces, that piece i think is almost certain. we'll know more in five to search days, i would say. >> richard, let's underline the fact again that arab neighbors helped in this moment. and it's pretty remarkable but it also tracks with what we have been hearing behind the scenes that you have jordan, the emirates, the saudis, a lot of other arab neighbors standing by wait to help in the post-war period. their only problem is how long it's going on and number of civilian deaths in gaza, only because, you know, if it were to continue another six months, it

would be extraordinairely hard to help. >> whatever they decide to do with iran, and my guess is they will direct against the iranian homeland to restore deterrence, i think that's what they will do. they will not do the things with the palestinians that would make it, shall we say, easy for the arabs to step in economically or with troops or whatever in gaza. so, you know, that's the disconnect between the israeli government and arab world the welcome back world would like to support the israelis against iran. i think there is a disconnect between right wing government and israel and what the saudis see as the necessary -- i don't see this changing it. the gaza debate has been parked for a couple of days but none of the fundamentals has changed whatsoever there. >> no. when you have netanyahu against the two-state solution, that's just not going to work. >> no, that's why the --

may work for right wing government. but in the long run, that won't work for the united states. it won't work for allies in the region. it won't work. they have taken -- they have taken a position -- netanyahu's taken a position too extreme. i understand right now the israeli people not want to go touk about a window 2. >> but netanyahu pass been working for it 10, 15 years. we have to move forward. when i say we, we ought to be able to say that, friends that help israel remain afloat. >> ought to be coming down hard on the israelis over settlements, we ought to be articulating the parameters -- we don't need to -- we should not go, cannot go to a two-state solution now. you can zech out the horizons, begin the process of moving down that path. but this israelis government will never go there because the political and ideological foundations wouldn't allow it. so there will be a day of

reckoning there. meantime, we have this other crisis. coming up, our next guest was inside the courtroom for the start of donald trump's criminal trial in new york city. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin is with us straight ahead on "morning joe."

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the thing is this trial could go on for months, but still still has a presidential campaign to run. his team claims on some court days, trump will hold in person and virtual events that. will make for some awkward trial moments. your honor, could we wrap this up, i'm late for a rally where you call for your execution, if it please the court. >> welcome back. joining us now former litigator

and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and nbc contributor chuck rosenberg, also president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation, reverend al sharpton. lisa, you were in the courtroom. aside the historic aspect of this event yesterday, if you could break down the major developments in the first day legally for us. >> one of the biggest things that happened yesterday, and really truthfully what consumed the most amount of time, was the pretrial motions that the parties wanted. in particular, the d.a.'s office asking for clarification with respect to a number of evidentiary rulings that the judge made. in doing so, in asking for that clarity, they took us on a tour of their case. it was almost like a mini opening statement because we got a preview of all of the ways in

which they are going to buttress this story that you and i and many viewers know so well, that michael cohen worked with donald trump to ensure that stormy daniels and karen mcdougal's stories never saw the light of day before the 2016 election and worked with trump and allen weisselberg and others to paper it over in a way that we would never know that this is what they had done. but the d.a.'s office yesterday was showing us how they are going to scaffold michael cohen as a witness. and so we saw yesterday, for example, a preview of how they are going to use the "national enquirer" witnesses. they said in 2016 there was a meeting at trump tower, david pecker made a promise to the trump campaign. he was going to bury negative stories about donald trump, accentuate positive stories about donald trump and say denigrating things about his enemies. yesterday the d.a.'s office said

these are headlines we want introduce as evidence of this scheme. that's how we saw a preview of the d.a.'s case yesterday. >> so the judge ruled against recusing himself. that was pushed to the side, that motion, very quickly. any other motions that stood out to you? after that, speak to the difficulty of picking this jury, if the lead question is, do you have any opinion about donald trump? arguably, the most famous person in the country right now. >> you are not looking for people who have no opinion. i will give you an example. we tried the 9/11 conspiracy in federal court in alexandria a few miles from the pentagon. we weren't looking for people who never heard of 9/11. we weren't looking for people who were neutral on al qaeda. we were looking for people who could say despite all those things, i can listen to the evidence and be fair. that's all you're looking for. you can put aside what you know,

what you believe, follow the instructions of the judge, apply the law to the facts and render a fair and impartial verdict. so i don't think it's that difficult to find a dozen people who can be fair. you may have to ask a lot of people until you find 12, but they'll get there. as for the judge's rulings not to recuse himself shall that was easy. there was no basis for it. and i think lisa very well summarized some of the other rulings yesterday. admitting evidence that the government is going to use at trial sort of explain the context and the backdrop for why it was so important for the trump campaign to try to kill this story right before the election. >> coming up, our next guest says iran's showy attack on israel and the clear cut response to it brings to mind this scene from "indiana jones." ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ >> the new piece in the atlantic i can straight ahead on "morning joe." ntic i can straight ahead on "morning joe.

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major cities like san francisco,

brooklyn, seattle, and chicago yesterday. take a look at what the senator said on fox news. >> i have to say, sandra, i agree with you, that you have to get to these -- or to these criminals early. something like this happened in arkansas on a brick there, let's say just say i think there would be a lot of very wet criminals that would be tossed over board, not by law enforcement but by the people whose road they are blocking. if they glue their hands to the car or payment, probably painful to have their skin ripped off. that's how we handle it in alabama. i encourage people stuck behind criminals like this blocking traffic take matters in their own hand. time to put an end to this nonsense. i sympathize with law enforcement. time for private citizens when they are confronted with the protesters to solve matters on their own before the police show up.

>> i'm thinking that's a little over the top. >> well, it's beyond that. i mean, police officers would be the first to say don't do that. >> please don't say that or do that? >> cops would say, please don't do that. please don't say that. please don't take matters into your own hands. >> rip people's skin off? >> you know, mike, there are few thins -- well, i'll just put it this way. i doubt senator cotton is any more exasperated than i am when i see people doing this, blocking people who are going to work or trying to take their kids to a doctor's appointment or trying to make an airplane at o'hare so they can get home in time to see a kid's ball game or recital. or just to get home to the people they love. there are ways to protest and

there is ways -- i think not to protest. and this is counterproductive to any cause that you are pushing. but here we have a guy, tom cotton, that went to harvard, undergrad and law school. served in the military. he is talking about throwing people off the golden gate bridge, ripping their skin off. we had a united states senator go on and a network, national network, suggesting that americans rip skin off of people's hands because they are aggravated. and take matters into their own hands. this is -- this is -- this is just beyond stupid on his part. beyond dangerous on his part to say this. and i must say, this goes -- tom cotton, that used to be on this show, pre-trump, would never have said something like that.

never. >> no. >> tom cotton that we interviewed time and again on this show would have never said anything like this. this shows how violence and violent rhetoric has become normal practice in the republican party. these are the people who are preparing for a guy who has promised to be a dictator from day one. >> nothing is more infuriating and i could not measure the anger in me if i were disrupted in terms of getting someone to the hospital, a member of the family, stuck in traffic, because of what they did on the golden gate bridge, whatever it was. you know what would happen if i get out of my car and grab one of the protesters and threw them off the golden gate bridge? i would be doing 15 to 20 years for manslaughter. no doubt about that. >> that's what he was saying. >> that's what he said. throw people off the bridge. rip people's skin off. >> but he it -- eddie and i were

talking prior to coming out here. there was a poll -- as a matter of fact, i have the numbers. there is a poll taken -- i was looking at it yesterday. one-third, 34% of americans would like to go and settle in another country if they were free to do so. half of americans, 51% of those under the age of 35 want to re-settle elsewhere, as do 39% of those 35 to 54 years of age. why is this happening? it's happening because people like tom cotton and people like the guy who is in trial today downtown manhattan, they continually run this country done. coming up, our next guest has produced some of the biggest blockbusters of all time. jerry brookheimer joins us with his latest project set during world war ii. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe."

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rising ocean temperatures have resulted in a global phenomenon known as coral bleaching. it is the fourth such event in recorded history and the second in the past decade. that's according tonational oceanic and atmospheric administration. coral bleaching occurs when rising water temperatures cause a stress-induced expulsion of algae that can ultimately kill the coral. this latest event is expected to be the most extensive the rapid effects of climate change will continue to have a profound impact on our future. and those born in recent years are almost certain to experience a global climate far different from those who came before them. many young people now express a

sense of climate anxiety when they think about what's to come. joining us now, journalist and author bill weir. he's out today with a new book entitled "life as we know it." bill, i'm glad you're hopeful. i want to talk about that climate anxiety that young people are experiencing, but first, if you could talk a little bit about the inspiration for this book, because it includes letters to your son, it starts with. >> exactly. i like to use my kids as sort of human measuring units. when my little girl was 11, i realized she was going to be my age in 2050. we learned so much about the happiest, healthiest societies. then came the 2016 election. the schedule changed a little

bit over at cnn. i was made the chief climate correspondent, first time somebody has held that beat there. then i became a new old dad at age 52. my little boy river was born at the height of the pandemic. i'm looking at the world on lockdown holding this squirming bundle and realizing this kid is going to live to see the 22nd century. so much was happening in the climate space. the first couple years the book was very dark. then i met enough entrepreneurs and dreamers and doers. >> it seems like every headline about climate is relentlessly negative. it's the hottest september on record, and so on. what do you see that makes you feel like, hey, we can do this? >> i look at what is a quiet

industrial revolution playing out under the surface right now that gives us the fact that texas leads the nation in green energy. texas, way more wind and solar than california and florida. three of the top five green energy states are run by republican because the economics of green energy makes more sense. up to now we've burned whatever is cheapest and available. now the two cheapest forms of energy are solar plus storage and wind. if we can accelerate that movement and urge with our power as voters and consumers to move us closer to that, we have to. it depends on that. >> dive a little more into that, the role the private sector plays versus government. >> you're going to see regions of climate conscious legislation

and those communities in those places i argue will be much more resilient. we still subsidize big oil and fossil fuel companies to the tune of trillions of dollars. maybe 75 big companies in petro states are making the difference. it's a minority of very powerful people deciding this energy stream. at the same time there's something called pluralistic ignorance. if you asked the average american to guess what percentage of people care about this issue. most people guess between 30 and 40%. in reality, it's 66 to 80%. we're surrounded by allies. most people don't talk about this enough. coming from the politically charged words about climate change alienates people. but if you connect over a favorite hiking trail, fishing

hole. then they could plug the classroom in after dark. dr. king didn't say i have a nightmare. not enough of us talk about the dream of building a cleaner, more sustainable world. the tools are readily available right now. >> you write about your children in this book. we all have children. i have grandchildren. and yet there is concern among the young much more so than middle-aged people about climate. but generally speaking in the larger world, people don't go around really believing. mika just led in with a story about ocean warming and coral reefs disappearing. california almost drowned this winter with the rainfall. people say, oh well, that's just the weather. it's not just the weather. >> it's not just the weather. this is not your father's climate anymore. past is no longer prologue. we're trying to get our kids out

of the golden age of addiction and depression and distraction and with each other in nature. the civilian climate corps, the idea that people from queens and texas and the dakotas can get together in nature and get together and revive ecosystems or learn how to connect with each other outside in real life and get connected to these landscapes. there's so much worth saving. we have to connect the dots between the air you can see during wildfire smoke season and the carbon dioxide and methane pollution you can't see that is super charging these unnatural disasters. >> i love this letter to your son. you talk about climate change. it's not a problem created or solved by physics or technology. it's a problem created and solved by stories. river, you have a good shot at seeing the 22nd century, and

when you get there, i want you to tell them how we came together, sorted out our you know what and wrote a better story. how do we get there? it's not small, but how do we get off plastics? how do we take this a step further in our lifetime? >> we can start by talking about it, talk about it with people you love, turn anxiety into action. there are so many ways to volunteer and put your skills towards that. if you care about wildlife, there's ways to do it. if you want to get in on the clean energy transition, if profit is your motive, that's fine too. this affects literally every aspect of life. everything around us can be made in a more sustainable way. that's exciting to some, scary to most. the status quo is not going to go gently. speak up and use that voice and start these conversations and

lean on everybody from your homeowners association and say, what are your plans, are you net positive for life on earth? >> the new book is "life as we know it can be, stories of people, climate and hope in a changing world." bill weir, great to see you. congratulations on the book. >> thanks a million, mika. >> take care. coming up, a live report from the courthouse in lower manhattan, where donald trump is due back in court for day two of his criminal hush money trial. a preview of this morning's proceedings when "morning joe" comes right back. ing joe" comes right back [shaking] itchy pet? (♪♪) with chewy, save 20% on your first pharmacy order so you can put an end to the itch. get flea and tick medication delivered right to your door. [panting] hi guys! bill, you look great! now that i have inspire, i'm free from struggling with the mask and the hose.

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♪ what a wonderful world ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful. the future is not just going to happen. you have to make it. and if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea, and now becomes the future. a future where you grew a dream into a reality. it's waiting for you. mere minutes away.

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two of donald trump's criminal trial will continue with jury selection, moving forward this morning in this historic trail, of course, the first time a former president is being brought up on criminal charges. this is happening, of course, in new york city. yesterday the judge dismissed nearly half the perspective jurors on day one. laura jarrett has more. >> reporter: this morning, the heavy lift of selecting a jury to hear what's likely to become one of the most high-profile cases in history labors on. donald trump seated in a manhattan courtroom coming face to face for the first time with some of the men and women who could ultimately determine his fate. the former president is accused of falsifying his internal business records in order to bury evidence he had an adult film actress paid off just days before the 2016 election, an

allegation he denies. >> nothing like this has ever happened before. >> reporter: 200 north americas summoned for jury duty slowly questioned in batches on day one of trial, many raising hands to signal they could not be fair. those were quickly dismissed. one woman overheard walking out of court saying, i just couldn't do it. perspective jurors only hearing a brief outline of the 34 felony counts mr. trump faces as the judge ticks through a who's who of names from trump world that could come up or serve as potential witnesses. the solemn painstaking vetting process inside the courtroom a contrast to what's been happening outside with the presumptive gop nominee railing against the timing of the state's case. >> i'm not in georgia or florida or north carolina campaigning like i should be. it's perfect for the radical left democrats. >> reporter: the judge publicly warning mr. trump his attendance at trial now mandatory. and if he doesn't show up, a

warrant will be issued for his arrest. but was noncommittal about granting trump a day off next month to attend his son's high school graduation. at the same time some evidentiary wins for the former president's team heading into trial, including the judge barring prosecutors from playing if infamous "access hollywood" tape for the jury, though they can reference what he said. >> jonathan lemire and mike barnicle are still with us. joining us ari melber and special correspondent at "vanity fair" molly jong-fast. she is an msnbc political analyst. ari, i'll start with you. what are we looking for today given how day one went just in terms of some of the aesthetics and optics here?

it just seems in some ways, at least through donald trump's eyes, a boring, long, exhausting process to pick the jury, something that might be quite frustrating to the former president. but what are you looking for today? >> well, mika, when you say bored to tears or bored to sleep, you know, those are two different types of boredom. i think you're right. it's a process that would be trying for anyone, although there's also a lot of effort to make it extremely meticulous and fair. donald trump day one was looking the way you see on the screen, not exactly his happiest, most buoyant self. he's never been this out of control. he learned quickly from the judge he will be stuck there, he will largely be quiet, he's afforded his rights, but he won't get to run the schedule and he's been complaining about that. they didn't pick any jurors yesterday.

technically, if we continue at this rate, the trial would last forever to infinity. i say that only as a slight legal joke. obviously over time, whether it's zero a day or one or two a day, they'll get this jury selected. it will take as long as it takes. that's in fairness to the defendant and the process. i would remind everyone that criminal court is the most painstaking, careful and severe process. to put it simply, if it's more likely than not in civil cour true, you win. it's 51%. >> we had chuck rosenberg on earlier saying, yes, it's hard to final a potential juror that does not have a feeling about donald trump one way or the

other. the job is to find jurors who can listen to the evidence and give a fair judgment in the case. that will take some time. then there's the political side of it, which is, first of all, history of seeing a former president of the united states sitting on trial in a criminal court and how that's going to play as we hear testimony from witnesses and voters are reminded about his payment to an alleged affair he was having with stormy daniels while his wife was home with their newborn child. that will be fascinating to watch how it place. >> yes. fifth child, third wife, covering up the affair that would have come out a few days after the "access hollywood" tape. there's so much political back story here that's important. it reminded us of all these salacious stories from 2016

which have really kind of fallen out of the news cycle, stormy daniels, karen macdougall, the allocations of a catch-and-kill story with "the national enquirer." i do think we don't really know what the calculus is. i was talking to a presidential historian yesterday. i said what is the precedent for this, and he said, nothing. >> eventually a jury will be empanelled and the trial will proceed and evidence will be produced on both sides, prosecution and defense. this will be the ultimate event for a candidate that is the defendant to stand up and constantly portray himself in

public that the jury is fixed, the justice system is corrupt, the judge is stupid. this would be the ultimate opportunity for such a defendant, mr. trump, to take the stand and tell his story. but if you were his lawyer, would you ever let him take the stand? >> no. we're talking about what's good legally. it's not a close call. in fairness to him, i'll say in general in these kind of cases the burden of proof is on the prosecution. they have to prove every element of the crime. if one juror has a reasonable doubt, that's supposed to be enough to stop a conviction to have a hung jury or a mistrial. that's why in general lawyers don't advise you to take the stand, because they want to keep the burden and focus on the prosecution. in this particular story, donald trump's defenses more involve

innuendo or suspicion about michael cohen or david pecker or these other assorted characters rather than him having some cogent honest explanation for all this. trump lied, which has basically been documented. and there was a criminal intent to mislead. that hasn't been proven. for trump to get up there, he could wind up perjuing himself. >> donald trump is now tethered to a manhattan courtroom. he can't go anywhere. he has to be there every day. president biden is starting a three-day swing through pennsylvania later today, a must-win battleground state for either candidate. we know the president is not going to talk about the criminal trials.

he's made that clear. the campaign is edging alongside of it. they had fun with the allegation that donald trump fell asleep yesterday. the word stormy has been in a lot of their tweets. i don't think that's an accident. what's the right approach? you want to point out, hey, our guy is not on trial. >> this white house is very risk averse, in fact, annoyingly so. they're older, top-down, very organized. they run the place very much like the opposite of the trump white house. biden loves pennsylvania and is very excited to get to go to scranton. these are two fundamentally very different politicians. i think trump thinks that the court helps him because it helped him with his primary voters. i remain unconvinced that swing

voters like to see their guy in criminal court. but i think he'll keep going, because one of the things we see with trump is if something worked for him, he tends to just continue with it even if the circumstances have changed. they are so careful, the campaign. i don't think it's bad for them to be less careful. i think most people think that. >> ari, today the jury selection goes forward. this could take a very long time given the rate we're going at here. when do we get into the meat of the trial? >> well, it could be anywhere between late next week to the following week. i wouldn't expect this jury selection process, if it's a few a day, to take more than three weeks unless donald trump does some excessive things to slow it

down. but the meat, we mean opening arguments and onto the witnesses. i think we could see that in three weeks. people are waking up to the fact that, wow, it's really a criminal trial. of course it's bad. the reason why donald trump argued that hillary was crooked and biden was under investigation in ukraine and all these other attacks on his opponents is he knows it's bad to be under investigation. i don't think that's a wild theory. i want to take a point of personal privilege. i don't want to embarrass and fawn on willie geist here. many people enjoyed the "curb" finale season. on the news side, your interview with larry david there was a big one. i enjoyed that. on the cameo side, you killed it. congrats. >> thank you, ari. it was a blast. i still can't believe it happened. i assumed they'd cut me out and

they left it all in. it was a thrill. >> it was so good. >> another busy night for ari and the team. "the beat" weekdays 6:00 eastern right here on msnbc. let's turn to the growing tensions in the middle east as the world awaits israel's response to iran's drone and missile attack over the weekend. protesters for a cease-fire in gaza took to the streets, disrupting traffic in major cities. richard engel has the latest. >> reporter: israel says it will retaliate to iran's unprecedented and unsuccessful missile and drone attack. while touring a base that was lightly damaged, the chief of staff of the israel army gave nv

terrible act of atrocity. on october 20th the president

asked. so we are way, way past due. ukraine is bleeding. the border is open. israel is under attack. funds are needed. the whole world needs america. where is america? >> david, switching topics here, you've got a new piece out this morning in "the atlantic" debate an indicted traitor? no." once of your responses is, president biden's spokesperson should answer like this. the constitution is not debatable. the president does not participate in forums with the person under criminal indictment for his attempt to overthrow the constitution. spell that out a bit. >> there's been a lot of talk about whether president biden should debate defendant trump.

some people say yes, some people say no. earlier this week a consortium of tv networks asked that the debate go ahead. you'll hear people say the president shouldn't do it, trump is obnoxious, trump is a jerk. none of that enters into it. can't biden rightly debated then-president trump in 2020. hillary clinton debated trump in 2016, as obnoxious as he was to her. we need to take this seriously. he is under criminal indictment and not just for the trial in new york for the hush money, but crimes against the constitution, for trying to overthrow an election. would the president do an event with the weather underground or the black panthers or the proud boys or any other group of people involved in indicted crimes? it's not a matter of opinion. it's not biden's personal delike. it's a fact that donald trump has been indicted for violent

crimes against the constitution. the president shouldn't be on the stage with such a person. >> the democratic party have fashioned themselves as the party for democracy, the party for debates. they're the ones who pushed previously and said we need to have debates. potentially if president biden were to suddenly not, that would be a risky play. look at the sheer politics of this. if he says no to the debate, plenty of people are going to say, well, that's because president biden is ducking him because he's too old or whatever it might be. how would you address that? >> i address the political and then the other. look, there's a saying in the news business, it's not a scoop unless you play it like a scoop. there should be a saying in law, it's not a crime unless you act like it's a crime.

how do americans understand that what donald trump did was something so out of the usual? the stakes are high in this election. well, the stakes were high in 1980 when jimmy carter and ronald reagan had a huge debate over the shape of the american government. and the stakes were high in 2004 when george bush and john kerry debated the war. in this case, it is a grand jury that indicted donald trump. if biden goes on the stage with him, biden is agreeing, look, the plot to overthrow the constitution is one important issue, but there are others because we're going to talk about overthrowing the constitution. we're going to talk about grocery prices. we're going to talk about abortion. it's just one issue out of many. you're giving people permission to say, i'm not with trump on the overthrowing the constitution by violence part, but i am worried about these food prices.

the election will be decided on food prices and abortion. i understand most people don't vote on these issues. i'm going to be voting on ukraine and democracy. but when they teach this a hundred years from now in high school, they won't be talking about abortion and grocery prices. they'll be talking about did the united states stand by the structure of world peace that is symbolized by nato? did the united states maintain it is illegal and improper to overthrow the constitution by violence, or did it yield on those points? that should not be up for debate. >> david frum, thank you for that. david, i hope this is okay, but joe and i both read the piece that you wrote about your daughter miranda's last gift. it's in "the atlantic."

it was so moving and so beautiful. you captured your daughter and her wit, the struggle, the grief and humor of loving her and her dog, which she left you. apparently the dog doesn't respect you and considers you to be his assistant. i hope you are treating the dog with the respect miranda expected ringo to deserve. joe and i read it and we sat in silence for many moments just so moved by how incredibly generous it was for you to write. >> it's very hard for me. i wasn't prepared for that, so it's hard for me to speak. >> i'm so sorry. >> i thank you. i hope people read it and that more people know miranda and ringo too. he doesn't respect me, but i try to respect him. [ laughter ] >> i'm sorry to sort of surprise

you with this, but it was such a beautiful piece. i couldn't let it go by without mentioning it. david frum, thank you for sharing that with us. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," while donald trump makes history in lower manhattan as the first former president to stand trial on criminal charges, he's also having a rough time a few blocks away on wall street. shares of truth social have gone cold, dropping 18% yesterday and 60% from its recent peak, wiping out more than $3 billion from trump's majority stake. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us next to explain what is ahead for the beleaguered social media company. "morning joe" will be right back. edia company. "morning joe" will be right back ell me about their frequent dry eyes, which may point to dry eye disease. millions of americans were estimated to have it.

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i don't think anybody really knows, but as you said the stock now down again.

every day it's gone down. it's up marginally this morning. they put out a statement saying in addition to being a social media company, they intend to become a streaming media company and they're going to be doing family friendly programming and other types of programming they say has otherwise been cancelled or there's no opportunity in the mainstream media for. we'll see whether that turns out to be something. i wouldn't hold my breath. >> i want to ask you about tesla, obviously one of the leaders in electric vehicle production in this country. elon musk announcing yesterday tesla cutting 10% of its global workforce. what should we read into that? >> twofold. one is that electric vehicles have not moved as fast in terms of adoption as anybody expected or wanted in truth. and that tesla, like some others probably struggling a lot less than others, but this is the first time you're actually

seeing vehicle sales decline since 2020 during the pandemic. that says something about where we are. they are clearly the leader in the united states and increasingly in other places around the world. there's competition in china, for example, in a major way. there is just more and more pressure on this company. a lot of hopes among those who are fans of tesla to see what elon musk is going to announce in august. he intends to announce a robotaxi fleet strategy. we'll see what that looks like and how quickly something like that could be rolled out. general motors through something called cruise already has that in some cities around the country. again, we're seeing the adoption of evs is not there. part of that is a function of the cost and part of it is a function of the infrastructure to be able to charge them. >> they hope the infrastructure act would help with that, and it

is. it's building. thank you. coming up next, moments from now jury selection resumes in a new york city courtroom as donald trump's hush money and election interference trial enters its second day. we'll have a live report from the courthouse when "morning joe" comes right back. n"morning joe" comes right back. [coughing] copd isn't pretty. i'm out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ♪♪ ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful.

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warfare" straight ahead on "morning joe."

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they're all mad. >> they'll need to be. >> that is a look at the star studded new film the ministry of ungentlemanly warfare which hits theaters this friday. it is based onwh real events an real eapeople, working in briti special operations during world war ii. the man behind that film is a hollywood icon, responsible for. he's one of the most successful in the history of the business with films grossing more than $13 billion over his career. joining us now, legendary film producer jerry bruckheimer. so great to have you here with us. >> it is a pleasure to be here. thank you for having me. you before we came out, we were going down your resume, you did that and that and that. it is d stunning. we don't have time to even list them meall. this l follows in that traditio and what we were saying is i love that it is based on a real storyd and a unit that none ofs have ever heard of until we

started hearing your story. >> what happened is the british are very, very, like, regimented. and you fight war a certain way. and churchill was losing the war. he was having a terrible time. and sole there was this base th is off the coast, i think, of africath that was controlled by the spanish, the spanish weren't in the war yet and they were t refueling and refixing all the u-boats. they figured out if they destroyed this base by destroying the ships that had all the equipmentyi on it, that would help, because the u-boats were destroying all the food and everything thatg was coming int the time. so they were starving, besides being bombed every night. so they picked six or eight guys who were total misfits and the army didn't want them in because they wouldn't listen -- obey orders. and he sent them over there to destroy these ships. when they got there, they were supposed to blow them up. when they got there, the hauls

were reinforced so they couldn't blow them up so they stole them. they got tug boats and dragged them out into the ocean and gave them overth to the british navy. so it was really an amazing feat that they did. and every one of these guys went on to other missions and none of them survived the war. they were all killed. >> w wow. >> so what i love to do is make movies that educate and entertain. so this particular unit should be remembered and the brits will now remember it and the world will remember all the men who werer really heroic. >> as well come to expect from you, it is a thrilling movie, a lot going on, it is fun, but it is rooted init history. the reason none r of us have hed of it isof you were saying it w just declassified within the last fewst years. >> that's right. and there is -- the book has more missions which will hopefully this becomes a success, we'll do some more. >> i have a sneaking suspicion it will be a success, mike. >> yeah, a i would too. educate and entertain. that's your theme for making movies. you made some ngunbelievable movies. and when i saybe movies, i wanto cap it, w movies, in the larges

sense. movies the way we used to be familiar with movies. your business has changed drastically. getting money to make movies has been harder and harder and harder. how do you separate yourself, and you managed to do it quite successfully, in making the kind of movies you can't wait to stand in line, buy a ticket and go see? >> fortunately hollywood is a place that everything rises to the top. ifto you have good ideas, good talent, they'll make them. that's what you eydo. you got to gather talent. that's what we do as producers, we find the material, get the ma talent, find a great director, take it to the studios and if they like heit, get it made. >> so talk to us about this shoot, this was filmed in turkey, waright? tell us about some of the cast. some names we know, some names i think we're about to learn. >> henry cavill, everybody knows.ry isaac gonzalez is phenomenal. it is an amalgam of interesting

young men issa who was based in a real character in england, an actress and singer and they sent her ond this special mission. >> another scenes here, an explosive scene on the high seas, from the new film "the ministry of heungentlemanly warfare." check it out. >> they're bringing their guns to bear. they'll find their range soon, sir. >> soo really? should we be worried? >> i don't think so, sir. i set a rather large fuse. when he goes back, it should go bang. >> closer. >> should be any second now, chaps. >> ready? >> good work, frederick.rk >> thank you, captain. >> a little humor in there as well, jerry.

>> guy ritchie directed it.ir everything guy touches has humor in it. he's a h fabulous writer and amazing director. and he's got a body of work, i mean, he never stops working. we finished our movie, went right into another one, then he did a tv show, and now he's filming another film right now. so, he just never stops. that's why he's notve here on t promotion tour. >> guy ritchie, pretty safe bet it isty going to be good. the film is "the ministry of ungentlemanlyof warfare," opensn friday. jerry bruckheimer, thank you so much. that does it for us thisy it morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a short break. morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a short break trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. for moderate to severe crohn's disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to.

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right now on "ana cabrera reports," breaking news here in new york. donald trump back in court for day two of his jury selection in his hush money trial. and there is something happening today that could impact his potential testimony in this case. plus, the trial and betrayal. a campaign spl