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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  April 16, 2024 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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victory. if he does that and walks away and focuses, that gives everybody a little breathing space including the biden administration. but he is facing pressure himself, netanyahu. he may be a right-leaning politician but there are people to the right of him. there is substantial support amid ordinary israelis for some sort of retaliation. even if you are not politically active a country that has been threatening your destruction for decades shoots 300 missiles and drones in your direction, you expect the government to do something. >> thank you so much for being with us. that is our show tonight. you can catch me back here on the weekend. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening. >> that evening. we just got the transcript from today's court session. andrew wiseman and adam klasfeld are here to read it. i won't
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obviously have the time to do that. we will have more later in the hour to consider what happened in the supreme court today so we have a lot to get to. >> so much breaking news. thank you. when donald trump lived in the white house usually would not come down to the workspace in the west wing until around 11:00 a.m. . when he got to the workspace in the west wing, waltz nauta would have diet coke ready often without needing to ask. as a criminal defendant he has to get himself dressed and in the car so he can get to his new job in lower manhattan at the criminal courthouse where he has to be in the courtroom by 9:30 a.m.
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as a criminal defendant. that is very tough. very tough work day for the laziest president in history. a very tough way to start the day. for he entered the courtroom today to observe the selection of jurors will decide of his payoff scheme to star stormy daniels was criminal, donald trump testified about the evidence in the case. not under oath, of course, but into the microphones of the awaiting news media. >> i was paying a lawyer and marked it down as a legal expense. i marked it down as a legal expense. that is exactly what it was. you get indicted over that? it is called a legal expense. that's what you are supposed to call it. nobody has ever seen anything like it. so thank you
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very much for coming >> the last line was, and now we are going to sit down for many hours. he meant that as hard work. that is hard work for donald trump. sitting down for many hours. that is not easy for him to endure at 77. he doesn't do anything for many hours. so as reporters noted yesterday, donald trump 'system just can't take it. not for many hours. donald trump, according to the observations of reporters in the courtroom falls asleep. so today, courtroom artist jen rosenberg took her place in the history of portraiture by capturing the sleeping donald trump. that makes jane rosenberg the first artist in history to create a portrait of
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a sleeping president or sleeping former president. it is surely the first courtroom portrait in history of a sleeping criminal defendant during jury selection. when today's session ended eight hours after it began, eight long hours for donald trump, seven jurors had been selected for the trial. four men, three women. jury selection will resume on thursday to complete the jury of 12+6 alternates. here's what we know about the jury so far. donald trump's jury for person is an immigrant. he works in sales but was previously a waiter. he's originally from ireland. he gets his news from the new york times, daily mail, sometimes fox news and msnbc. juror number two is a nurse.
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she gets her news from the new york times, cnn, has a facebook account. when she was question, she said this. quote, especially in this courtroom he will be treated as anyone else can be treated and no one is above the law. she said she did not have an opinion of donald trump before she walked into the courtroom. then she said i am here for my civic duty. i am here to listen to the fact. juror number three is a man, probably around his 30s. he's a lawyer and he gets his news from the new york times, wall street journal, and google. juror number four is a man from puerto rico who said he is fascinated. that was his word. fascinated
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with donald trump. we will have more about what he said in just a moment. juror number five is a younger, maybe in her 20s, like woman. she told donald trump office lawyer that has a person of color she has friends who have strong opinions on donald trump, but she is not a political person or self. she said she tries to avoid political conversations and does not really care for the news. juror number six, a young woman not sure what the ages, works with software. she enjoys plays and watching tv. juror number seven is a man, we do not have any information on that juror in the notes that i have on the jury that has been selected. leading off the discussion tonight is adam klasfeld who
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was in the courthouse today and will be in the courthouse every day for us at the trump trial. he's a fellow at just security. also, andrew wiseman is with us. former fbi counsel. he's an nbc legal analyst and co-author of the best-selling book the trump indictments, the historic charging documents with commentary. just filling a blank here on juror number four who said he is fascinated by donald trump. what else did he say? >> i'm reading from the transcript here. you have to imagine this real tone of wonder in his voice. he's now on the panel saying i find him fascinating and mysterious. he walks into a room and sets people off one way or another. i find that really interesting. this one guy can do all of this? >> what did the prosecutors have to say to that juror in
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questioning? >> this was during an exchange not with the prosecutors but with todd blanche. you have to remember during this entire process the court has studiously avoided trying to elicit from jurors what you think about trump. todd blanche tried to push that in the pretrial hearings. that failed. judge said their opinions are immaterial. during this process, his lawyers have the chance to try to elicit that information. elicit they did. this one actually made the cut. >> so each side at this point has used more than half of their preemptory challenges. challenges they can offer without saying why. that juror coming in and saying i'm fascinated with donald trump . there is more than one way to read that but it had to make the prosecution a little nervous listening to that.
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>> i am struck by the fact that both sides have used six out of their 10 challenges so they only have orders left. there are two ways juries can be chosen typically. this is the one that is, gives the least amount of information to both sides. it's euphemistically called the flop method. the others call it the strike max said -- method. the method is better because you see all 38 potential jurors at once. you will see everybody who could be on the jury and then you exercise your 10 peremptory's on the other side exercises there. they don't have to. they can exercise up to 10 but you can see who the universe is. here you do not know what is coming next. what is striking to me is that there were at least six people
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the prosecution and six people the defense clearly thought they were so bad for them that they wanted to strike them. it does sleep both sides potentially vulnerable. remember what both sides are looking for is an anchor jury. they want someone that will be so strongly for them that they don't really care if the rest are she. that is sort of the general model. when you only have four peremptory's on each side, the potential of getting somebody who is strong one way or the other rises. >> with only four left on each side it means it could end up moving faster. i just want to go back for the audience. it is so important because i think a lot of people out there think they hear jurors say something they don't like and they would challenge the juror. the answer to that is you might not if you have no idea who the juror will be replaced by. that is the game they are playing now. it's not like, if i challenge
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that when the next one up is andrew. you do not know who the next one up is. >> that's a terrible example, but exactly. you do not see all 38 possibilities. you have to exercise. to me it is interesting that as the prosecution they would exercise six. that means they really did not like them. that's what i'm intuiting because they have four for the remainder. they won't care quite as much about the and alternates because the chances of getting to them are much lower so they will be focused very much on the next five is where they will really be focused to get to the group of 12. >> adam, what struck you during jury selection today? >> there was one point and another piece of transcript before me. there was one moment where the judge all but accused trump of juror intimidation. there was a moment when the
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juror was called back in the room to answer for a social media post. she had posted a video that was around the time of the presidential election. around the time of his defeat. that showed a celebration. i'm reading from the court about what the judge observed of trump's reaction to her answers. the innocent explanation for the video pickett said before we continue i want to put something on the record. mr. blanche, while the juror was at the podium maybe 12 feet from your client, your client was audibly uttering something. i do not know exactly what he was uttering. he was audibly gesturing, speaking in the direction of the juror. i will not tolerate that. will not have any jurors intimidated in the courtroom. i want to make that crystal clear. that of course is an incredible moment. we have to remember
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that he is still facing a potential contempt of court. there is a hearing scheduled for next week. he's been commanded to show up. when that moment bring out it was an incredible moment in the courtroom. and the juror survived the for cause challenge. the trump team needed to striker with a peremptory challenge. >> that's when they had to use the challenge on. i want to go back to the evidence. as presented by witness trump to the press today. something we will never hear him saying the courtroom because he will never testify, but his defense that he will present every day in some version there outside of the courtroom, i was paying a lawyer. i was paying him for years. these checks were just me pain the lawyer. that is the defense. they will get that from his
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mouth but that is what the defense lawyers will be trying to get through cross- examination and other witnesses. >> the clip you played was fascinating because he blew it. if you listen really closely he starts by saying i. then he says the accountant did it. then he can say he did not know what the accountant is doing. >> he pretends like he does not know who the accountant is. >> he says whoever it is i didn't know when whatever they wrote down his legal. it is fine to define them as legal fees. that is one where, if you have a smart jury which when i was doing this i always looked for smart jurors. that's when i used to say, good luck to you. i don't think that will fly. i think it was fascinating that
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he could not keep the story straight which is that the accountant did it. i didn't do it. he started out saying, this is what i did. it will be interesting to see if the prosecution tries to use that because it is an admission. that is something that is potentially admissible. >> he will do some version of that much every day. >> just to be clear we saw that . rudy giuliani did that and the evidence of what he said outside of what was played in the civil case that he lost. all of those statements are admissible. they are admissions. this is one you are seeing again. no client control so he can really hurt himself. he only has himself to blame. >> so no wednesday sessions in this trial. you are back in jury selection thursday morning. >> that is correct. >> adam klasfeld and andrew wiseman, thank you for starting off the discussion tonight.
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andrew will stick around to join us later. coming up, the scandal at the supreme court continued today with clarence thomas participating in a case about the violent attack at the capitol on january 6 even though his wife was cheering donald trump on when he told his crowd on january 6 to go to the capitol and fight like . congresswoman katie porter was in the room today when the supreme court heard an appeal of the january 6 defendant of one of the charges against the defendant which happens to be one of the charges donald trump is facing. congresswoman katie porter joins us next. of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as 14 days. now i can help again. feel the difference with nervive. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, i've bee telling everyone. baby: liberty.
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joseph fischer was a police officer in pennsylvania when he wrote take congress to the gallows. can't vote if they can't breathe. lol. it might get violent. they should storm the capitol and drag all the democrats into the street and have a mob trial. if trump don't get in, we better get to war or we will lose our country. police officer joseph fischer was at the capitol on january 6, attacking police officers
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who were doing their job defending the building and the people in it. joseph fischer is facing seven criminal charges for his violent attack on the capitol. today the u.s. supreme court heard his appeal of one of those charges. obstructing an official proceeding. joseph fischer argues that that lot does not apply to anything he's accused of doing on january 6. the law says, whoever corruptly alters, destroys, relates, or conceals the record, document, or other object or attempts to do so with the attempt to impair the object's integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding or otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding or attempts to do so. is subject to prosecution. one of the charges pending against donald trump is that very same charge that joseph
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fischer is appealing to the u.s. supreme court . if the supreme court finds in joseph fischer's favor they will in effect be finding in donald trump's favor which means once again today clarence thomas publicly deepens the scandal that he lives in. clarence thomas, of course, should have recused himself from hearing the case after his wife joined donald trump on january 6 when he was telling joseph fischer to go to the capitol and fight like . clarence thomas's wife approved of every word he said an incitement of insurrection at the capitol and so clarence thomas today chose to publicly sit in judgment of a legal matter that his wife was actually involved in. we know from the january 6 committee that clarence thomas's wife was encouraging chief of staff mark meadows to break the law in any way necessary to overturn the presidential election when there was no legal method for
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overturning the presidential election. not surprisingly, clarence thomas show today that he does not think there was anything special about the january 6 attack on the capitol. he does not think it is fit -- different from any other protest we've seen in the past. >> there have been many violent protests that have it interfered with proceedings. has the government applied to this provision to other protests in the past and has this been the government's position throughout the lifespan of the statute? >> it has certainly been the government position since the enactment that it covers the myriad forms of obstructing an official proceeding and is not limited to some kind of evidence impairment clause. >> have you enforced it in that manner? >> we have enforced it in a variety of prosecutions that do not focus on evidence tampering. i can't give you an example of
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enforcing it in a situation where people are violently storm the building in order to prove -- prevent an official proceeding with intent to obstruct but that is because i'm not aware of that circumstance ever happening prior to january 6. >> justice sonia sotomayor was not concerned about the lack of prosecutorial history. >> we've never had a situation before weather has been a situation like this with people attempting to stop a proceeding violently. so i am not sure what a lack of history proves. >> the solicitor general told the court that joseph fischer knew exactly what he was doing on january 6. >> one of the root problems with petitioner's conduct is that he knew about the proceeding. he had said in advance of january 6 that he was prepared to storm the capitol, prepared to use violence.
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you wanted to intimidate congress. he said they can't vote if they can't breathe and he went to the capitol on january 6 with that intent in mind and took action including assaulting a law enforcement officer. that did appear the ability of the officers to regain control of the capitol. i think it is entirely appropriate for the government to seek to hold the petitioner accountable for that content with that intent. >> joining us now is katie porter who was a harvard law school student of professor elizabeth warren and was a professor of law herself. congressman porter, you were in the supreme court chamber today listening to that argument. i feel i should be addressing u.s. professor porter tonight in your law professor role. he spent years as a law student studying supreme court cases and here's as a law professor. what do you make of today's.
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>> it was incredibly impressive to see the way that the government's lawyer responded to a number of challenging and difficult questions from lots of different justices. one of the things that made me feel as someone who deals daily with the dysfunctional congress is grateful that we still seem to have some amazing people working in our administration who are fighting to make sure democracy is protected. it was a pleasure to see the solicitor general at work today. >> it seemed as i listened it seemed like it was all about the 20 years. it was all about the fact that it can carry a heavy penalty. of course, there is no mandatory minimum sentence attached. you get the feeling listening to it if the statute had a five- year sentence or less that they would not be here tonight.
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>> the punishment. the amount of sense something can carry is irrelevant to the interpretation of the statute. deciding what the punishment should be is congress's job. the court job is to understand how to read the statute and apply it to the facts. in this case, the extraordinary facts of january 6. i did take note that they were focused on the consequences. very much on who the protesters were. the peculiarities. the fact that we have not had a situation like january 6 before. we have had other kinds of criminals in the country try to disrupt our government and engage in things whether went with us -- witness tampering, threatening a witness and trying to interrupt the certification of an election to me clearly falls under the issue. >> let's listen to what the solicitor general said about sentencing and what the sentences that have been issued
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in cases like this. >> we have looked at the averages sentences. are about 50 that have gone on to sentencing. this is the only felony so that the best way to gauge it. this is when the sentence enhancement did apply. >> it is average 26 months in prison met. the median has been 24 months. there is no argument to be made that it affects anything with sentencing. >> the other thing i heard was that attempts to compare what happened on january 6 two other forms of protest seemed like they did not grasp the singularity of january 6. >> the justices asked questions about other hypotheticals like for example if somebody were to interrupt the supreme court
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business and they had to adjourn. other kinds of protests. one of the things the united states solicitor general drove home again and again which is incredibly important for americans to understand is the statute requires that the criminal defendant have acted corruptly, wrongfully, knowingly. if we had somebody who was protesting, thought they were protected by the first amendment that they actually weren't, that would not be covered by this. the emails from mr. fisher. the messages that he sent about the gallows. all of these emails and all of that evidence is necessary to bring a case under the statute. there are very strong protections to ensure that someone who is expressing an opinion, even an unpopular opinion would never face prosecution. you have to intend to stop the government from conducting official business.
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to be acting intentionally. >> although the solicitor general made it it seems like some of the trump appointed judges ignored it and did not take it and it all. thank you very much for that firsthand reporting from the supreme court. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, we will have more on the hearing next. . you need clem. clem needs benefits. work with principal so we can help you with a plan that's right for him. you know what i'm saying? let our expertise round out yours.
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at the supreme court today it seemed like the majority of the justices were treating the 20 year maximum sentence for obstructing an official proceeding as if it were a minimum sentence. as if everybody convicted of the crime would automatically be sentenced to 20 years. in fact, it seemed to be what bothered the justices most about the law. solicitor general prelogar had to remind the court more than once that 20 years is, as she put it, just a max. >> again, the 20 year statutory max of course is just a max. there's no mandatory minimum. congress would have recognize that sentencing courts would use their discretion to tailor the sentence to this specific offense. >> joining us now is neal cotts you. he is a professor at georgetown law school and a
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legal analyst. and andrew wiseman is back with us. neil, i have to say i was so impressed with the solicitor general. the delivery was high-speed, jammed with content, but we are all eager to hear what you thought of what we heard today. >> i am so proud of elizabeth prelogar. she was my associate for many years and there is nobody i think higher of. today lawrence just demonstrated a. i know that there is a lot of reporting out there that the supreme court is going to rule against the justice department. i think that is somewhat premature. i have seen over 500 supreme court arguments. sometimes you know and sometimes you don't. i actually think this is more the latter. i think donald trump is hoping for a big bang that will
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nullify the statutes and i do not think he is quite going to get that. i think that there are two separate issues. one is what trump i get in terms of relief and the other is followers like the litigant might get. i think the court was particularly entertaining the idea that maybe the government broad theory of the statute does not go quite this far, but so far i did not hear much of an answer to what jack smith has said which is that he has a narrower version of the statute . because donald trump is focused on tampering with records which is squarely within the statute. >> andrew, what is your sense how this could impact the jack smith prosecution. >> very similarly.
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if there is a ruling in favor of fischer, that is really saying that the statute requires that there be something related to documents. some kind of document destruction, creation of fake documents. that is not what was charged with respect to over 300 people . this would have an enormous potential impact on people related to january 6. however, -- >> if they rolled that way they would get retrials? >> they would get retrials and probably most of the cases. there would be a lot of arguments but generally speaking that is what would happen. there may be other ways to charge them. >> fischer, for example, has other charges. >> for instance attacking the police officer or just entering the mohyeldin. -- capitol. it would mostly affect somebody
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that only had that charge. with respect to donald trump, first remember he's facing four different counts. this would affect two of them. neal katyal directly points out and jack smith has said this to the court which is that case at the very least involves the fake collector scheme which involves false documentation being used to obstruct congress. it depends how the court actually writes the decision. even on this claim and he was asked about this. he said that is a harder case. donald trump can be hoping but it is a tough road for him. i just want to say that i enjoyed when elizabeth prelogar was on the task force. her preparation, it is really a sight to behold.
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how much of what you just played, how much she works on that to anticipate everything she's going to be asked and her precise wording is something that she goes over and over. what you are seeing is something that is really a product of intellect and skill and work ethic. >> she has that speed that comes out so fast and focused. neal, as we go forward here, what struck me is that many of the justices were really tough on the petitioner. and then they were tough on the solicitor general. it's one of those cases. they were going hard against each side. first i thought it was going bad for the petitioner and then, they really are coming up this from both sides. >> that is what you want at the court is asking the tough questions to both sides. i do think it is a little interesting for the step
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backward, how many times have justice alito or justice thomas asked , how fair is a charge with the defendant. it is a little bit striking to hear so many of those concerns coming out of that segment of the court. similarly, i think a dominant methodology right now is textualism. reading the statute as what it's plaintext says. here the plaintext is so good for the government. it says it is a crime to otherwise obstruct, influence, or impede any official proceeding. it sure seems like dollars to donuts not just what trump did but what joe fischer did with the other 300 defendants was to obstruct an official proceeding. it does not say anything about evidence and destruction of evidence and that statute.
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so the judge that wrote the court of appeals opinion is what she harped on. she said, this is a standalone provision in the statute. it does not say anything about evidence destruction. i did not hear anything about that in the oral argument today. i know that the government will -- certainly not lose the trump prosecution but may lose some of the hundreds of others. it is not clear to me that anybody today took issue with what the judge said in her opinion. that leaves me some hope to think, as it shows what these people did was illegal every day of every week and they should be prosecuted and behind bars. >> i noticed that same point, neal. i just have to say is somebody who has actually written law, that is a very deliberate catchall phrase that those legislators, those senators and members of the house wrote into
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that law. it's very deliberate. i know exactly the ways in which the staff sit there and get to that vinyl one where they get to order, otherwise, make sure we got something that catches everything we can't anticipate. andrew. >> it is worth noting that the statute came about because of the enron case. this particular statute and 1519 were promulgated to be as expansive and broad as possible. for me having worked on these statutes and the revision it is almost ludicrous to hear these arguments to have it be read in a way that is as neal said counter to the clear reading of the words. again, i think this is a court that is doing whatever it can to undermine the case. you saw the disqualification decision. hopefully you won't see it here but there will be some justices that i think are very favorably
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the disposed to reverse these. and then next week we have the presidential immunity arguments. that is the trifecta that will put the integrity of this court on trial. >> andrew wiseman, neal katyal, thank you both for joining us on this important night. we really appreciate it. coming up, donald trump spent today in a new york city courtroom on trial. president biden was on the trail. he kicked off a three day campaign swing through the very important electoral college state of pennsylvania. that is next. s next. that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain.
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get to the source, measured with simple blood testing. ask your specialist about nucala. we have more volunteers, more headquarters open, more people working for us. we've raise, over 600,000 people contributed to us. tens of thousands of them and guess what the average contribution is? less than $200. less than 200 bucks because almost 97% of the countries have-- donors. we've opened headquarters here. he has no presence here. >> president biden visited his hometown of scranton, pennsylvania today which included a stop at his childhood home on n. washington ave. after a campaign event at the scranton cultural center.
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there he is in front of his childhood home. and at the cultural center, and at the cultural ctr., president biden said this. >> when i look at the economy i don't see it through the eyes of mar-a-lago, i see it to the eyes of scranton and that's not hyperbole. where honesty and decency matter. where faith matters. where family is everything. where we grew up knowing in our homes that wall street didn't build this country, the middle class built this country. and unions built the middle class. [ applause ] we know the best way to build an economy is from the bottom up, not the top down because when they do that the poor have a ladder up and the middle class does well in the wealthy still do very well.
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we all do well. it's a stark contrast from my opponent. he looks at the economy from mar-a-lago where he and his rich friends embrace the failed trickle-down policies from working families for more than 40 years. scranton values or mar-a-lago values. these are the competing visions for our economy. under my plan anyone earning less than $400,000 will pay an additional penny. hope you are all able to make $400,000. i never did. but they are not going to pay an extra penny and federal taxes. that's a promise. >> with the president in scranton today, the biden/harris campaign released a new advertisement about scranton values. >> scranton is a set of values. we pride ourselves on the importance of family and honesty and hard work. >> this was the beginning. resident biden is my first kaiser cousin and there's a pride of them here in scranton. i do not believe that president
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trump was for the little guy. he was for the wealthy. that was his lifestyle and that's what he protected. >> president biden is setting us up for not just tomorrow but 50 years from now. we are so optimistic for the future of scranton and continuing the work going ahead the next four years. >> joining our discussion is the mayor of scranton, pennsylvania who was with the president today. thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> i am so happy to be here. it's been an incredible day in scranton. >> what was it like to have the president visit? >> well we are lucky here that the president comes quite often. he loves coming home. i think you can see in his speech and the different shots of him today that he just really feels at home here. he is literally with his family. his cousins are here and he sees a lot of old friends in places where he used to play baseball or ride his bike and he loves to tell us of those stories.
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it's a great view of him and how authentic he is when he's here in his hometown. >> the house he grew up in reminds me of the second house that i grew up in when we moved up to a bigger house in boston and in a neighborhood similar to that one. it looked similar to that one. it must really mean a lot to him to be there. >> it does, it really does and it means a lot to us. as we drove from the airport to the city there were people lining up in the streets and that continued all night so it was a long day as far as these visits go. 8:00 o'clock at night there was a line of people who had signs, waving. and we've got the campaign going. people really want to see the president continue to lead our country. they want to see him continue
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to lead the economy. we still are struggling at the household level. we've got this great macro picture, the global economy of america is dominating, firing on all cylinders. but at the household level folks are still trying to figure out how to pay increasing utility bills and increasing rent. president biden is thinking about that he's from a place like that and a kitchen table just like that. they know those types of policies that he's thinking about day in and day out are going to benefit them and it's our job to keep talking about it. >> the western part of the state which is a republican part of the state, the president has been surprised by some things. let's listen to one thing he talked about that he saw in that part of the state. >> i never thought i'd see a time where i'm going through a neighborhood or a rural town in the west and see big signs, a trump sign in the middle that says f the biden and having a
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little kid standing with his middle finger. >> that is pretty poisonous stuff and that is a creation of the trump era. >> it is. we've seen a real shift and what people are willing to say out loud and we see it right here. we've seen it in our city government where the last few years there has been this divisive miss from the public. it's not a majority of folks, it's a small group. but you see the willingness to say out loud some of the nasty things that people read online. you see people are calling at the office and saying things they would not have said just a handful of years ago. we have to fight through that. we have to fight to make sure that we are continuing to be decent in america, that we are continuing the policies that give people dignity and that's what joe biden brings. today he was here talking about tax fairness. that is so important that we continue to be the america that we are and put that to our children and make sure they
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know that they can look up to heroes and look up to people like joe biden. donald trump does not offer that type of leadership. we know that. what he tells us who he is all the time. one thing the president said today was listen to him. he's telling you who he is. it was the first time i heard the president say it so simply and i like that. we have to make sure people are listening to both sides making that choice. >> the mayor of scranton. one of joe biden's favorite mayors. thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> we will be right back. be r . look at this new organic soil from miracle-gro. everybody should have it. it worked great for us. this is as good as gold in any garden. if people only knew that it really is about the dirt. you're a dirt nerd. huge dirt nerd. i'm proud of it! [ryan laughs] (♪♪) i'm getting vaccinated with pfizer's pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine.
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