and focuses, then yes. that will give everybody a little breathing space including the biden administration. but he's facing pressure himself, netanyahu. there are people to the right of him and substantial support in israeli, among ordinary israelis. if you're an ordinary citizen. even if you're not politically active. a country that's been threatening your disruption for decades to shoot 300 missiles and drones in your direction. you expect them to do something. >> as always, thank you so much for being with us. that's our show tonight. you can catch me back here on the weekend, 8:00 a.m. eastern. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening, we just got the transcript from today's court session. andrew weissmann is here to

read it. obviously i don't have time to do it as they will be joining us to consider what happened on the supreme court today, as we have a lot to get to. >> so much breaking news. good to see you. >> thank you. when donald trump lived in the white house, he usually wouldn't come down from the residents to the work space in the west wing. i'm told around 11:00 a.m. and when he got to the work space in the west wing, he is now a co-defendant with donald trump in florida. he would have his donald trump's caffeine doses ready for him in the form of diet coke constantly handed to donald trump, often without needing to ask. but as a criminal defendant, donald trump has to get himself dressed and in the car, so he can get to his new job in lower manhattan at the criminal courthouse, where he has to be in the courtroom by 9:30 a.m. as a criminal defendant.

that is very tough, and a very tough work day for the laziest president in history. very tough way to start his day. before he entered the courtroom today to observe the selection of jurors who will decide if his payoff scheme to porn star stormy daniels was criminal, donald trump testified about the evidence in the case. not under oath, of course, but into the microphones into the awaiting news media. >> i was paid a lawyer, and marked it down as a legal expense. i didn't know. marked down as a legal expense. that's exactly what it was and you get indicted over that. check it out, legal expenses. nobody has ever seen anything like it. so thank you very much for coming.

now we need to sit down in the wee hours. >> the last line there now is we are going to sit down for many hours. he meant that as hard work. that's hard work for donald trump, sitting down for many hours. that's not easy for him to endure at 77 years old. he doesn't do anything for many hours. so as reporters noted yesterday, donald trump's system, just can't take it. not for many hours. and donald trump, according to the observations of the reporters in the courtroom will fall asleep. so today courtroom artist took her place in the history by capturing these sleeping donald trump. that will make them the first artist in history to create a portrait of a sleeping

president or a sleeping former president. surely the first courtroom portrait in history of a sleeping criminal defendant during jury selection when today's session ended eight hours after it began, eight long hours for donald trump. seven jurors had been selected for the trial. four men, three women. jury selection will resume on thursday to complete the jury of 12 plus six alternates. here is what we know about the jury so far. donald trump's jury foreperson is an immigrant. he works in sales now, but was previously a waiter. he's originally from ireland. he gets his news from the new york times, the daily mail. sometimes fox news and msnbc. juror number two is a nurse. she gets her news from the new

york times, cnn, google, and has a facebook account. when she was questioned, she said this. especially in this courtroom, he will be treated as anyone else can be treated and no one is above the law. she said she did not have an opinion of donald trump before walking into the courtroom. then she said i am here for my civic duty and to listen to the facts. juror number three is a man, probably around his 30s. he's a lawyer. he gets his news from the new york times, the wall street journal, and google. juror number four is a man from puerto rico who said that he is fascinated, that is his words, fascinated with donald trump. we will have more about what they said in just a moment.

juror number five is a younger, maybe in her 20s, a black woman. she told donald trump's lawyers have strong ties. but she's not a political person herself. she tries to avoid political conversations and doesn't really care for the news. juror number six, a young woman, not sure what that age is, works with software. she enjoys, plays restaurant stancing and watching tv. that's juror number six. juror number seven is a man. i don't have anything on that person who has been selected. leading off our discussion tonight is adam who was in the courtroom today and will be in

the courthouse every day for us at the trump trial. he's a fellow at just security. also andrew weissmann is with us, former chief of the criminal decision. he's an msnbc legal analyst and co-author of the new york times best selling book, "the trump indictments, the historic charging documents." adam, just fill in a blank here on that juror number four now who said he's fascinated by donald trump. what else is fascinating? >> i'm reading from the script here. you have to imagine the tone of wonder in this juror's voice saying i find him fascinating and mysterious. he walks into a room and he sets people off one way or another. i find that really interesting. this one guy can do all this. wow. that is what i think. >> what did they say to that juror in questioning? >> this is during an exchange

not with the prosecutors, but with todd again that you'll have to remember during this entire process, they would have avoided thinking what did you think about trump as they would try to push that and it failed. their opinions on trump is immaterial. during the process, trump's lawyers will have a chance to try to solicit that information. this one actually made the cut. >> so andrew, each side at this point has used more than half of their challenges. challenges they can just offer without saying why. that juror coming in saying i'm fascinated by donald trump, and he walked into the room with more than one way to read that. but they had to make the prosecution a little nervous listening to that. >> and i'm struck by the fact that both sides have used six

out of their ten challenges, so they would only have four left. there are two ways that juries can be chosen typically. this is the one that's least -- gives the least amount of information to both sides. it's called the flop method. and the other is called the strike method. the strike method is much better because you see all 38 potential jurors at once. you will see everybody who could be on the jury and then you exercise your thing on the other side, exercises, they don't have to, but that is up to 10. enly you can see who the universe is. you don't know what's coming next? what's striking to me is there were at least six people who the prosecution and six people the defense clearly thought

they were so bad for them they wanted to strike them. remember what both sides are looking for is somebody who will be so strongly for them and then they don't care whether the rest is sheep. that's sort of the general motto. when you only have four on each side, the potential of getting sort of somebody else, rises. >> this could end up moving faster. i want to go back to the point for the audience, which is so important. a lot of people out there think they hear a juror say something they don't like, and well, i would challenge that juror. the answer to that is you might not if you have no idea who that juror is going to be replaced by. that's the game they're playing now. it's not like oh, if i challenge that juror, then the next one up is andrew. you don't know who the next one

is. >> that's a terrible example, but yes. you don't see all 38 possibilities. you would have to exercise. and to me, that is interesting that as the prosecution, they would need to exercise, which means they really don't like them. because they have four for the remainder. now they won't care quite as much as sort of the end to the alternates because the chances of getting to them are much lower. >> yes. >> they will be focused on the next five. that's where they will be focused, thinking that's the group of 12 then. >> adam, what else struck you during the jury selection today? >> there is one point and another piece of transcript before me. there was this one moment where the judge, all, but accused trump of juror intimidation. what happened, there was a moment when the juror was called back into the room to answer for a social media post.

she had posted a video that was around the time of the presidential election, around the time of trump's defeat. it showed a street celebration. i'm reading from the court about what the judge observed of trump's reaction to her answers, the innocent explanation of the video that said before we continue, i want to put something on the record. this is justice chung. while the jury was from the stadium 12 feet from your client, your client was uttering something. speaking in the direction of the jury. i won't tolerate that. i won't have any jurors intimidating in this courtroom and that is an incredible moment. the accusation that we would have to remember that trump is still facing a potential

contempt of court. there's a hearing scheduled next week. he's been commanded to show up. when that moment rang out, it was an incredible moment in the courtroom. and the juror survived the challenge. the trump team needed to strike her with that challenge. >> that is one they had to use their challenge on and decide. andrew. i want to go back. something he will never testified. but his defense that he's going to present every day and some version there outside of the courtroom -- listen, i was paying a lawyer and michael cohen was my lawyer. i was paying him for years. these checks to michael cohen were me paying him a lawyer. that's the defense. they are not going to get it from donald trump's mouth, but that's what the defense lawyers will be other witnesses.

>> so the clip you played is fascinating. he starts by saying hi, oh wait. the accountant did this. it's like oh wait, that's right. it wasn't i who did it, but the accountant did it, because then i could say i didn't know what the accountant was doing. >> he's trying to pretend he doesn't know who they are. >> yes. >> that i did not really know. by the way, whatever they wrote down was legal because it is, it is fine to describe repayments of money to hush money payments to the porn star as legal fees. you know, that's one where if you have a smart jury, which i always looked for smart jurors. that's to say good luck to you. i don't think that's going to fly. but i thought it was fascinating that he couldn't keep the story straight, which has got to be the accountant did it, i didn't do it. but he started out by saying this is what i did.

that won't be great. the prosecution tries to do that. >> he's going to do some version of that pretty much every day? >> yep. >> and when we saw him do that and the evidence of what he said outside of court was played in the civil deaf nation court, i call z all those statements and emissions. so he only has himself to blame. >> adam, no wednesday sessions in this trial, so no session tomorrow. you're back in jury selection on thursday morning? >> that's correct. >> all right. we're going to pick it up, pick up jury selection. adam klasfeld and andrew weissmann. thank you for joining us tonight. coming up, the scandal at

the supreme court continued today with supreme court justice lauren tom pas even though his wife was cheering donald trump on when he told his crowd on january 6 to go to the capitol and fight like hell. congresswoman katie porter was in the room today when they heard an appeal of a january 6 defendant of one of the charges against that defendant, which happens to be one of the charges donald trump is facing. congresswoman katie porter joins us next.

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joseph fisher was a police officer in pennsylvania. in december of 2020 when he wrote in a text message, take democratic congress to the gallows. can't vote if they can't breathe. lol. it might get violent. they should storm the capitol and drag all the democrats into the street and have a mob trial. if trump don't get in, we better get to war or we will lose our country. police officer joseph fisher was at the capitol on january 6, attacking police officers, who were doing their jobs defending the building and the people in it. joseph fisher is facing seven

criminal charges for his violent attack on the capitol. today the united states supreme court heard his appeal of one of those charges. obstructing an official proceeding. joseph fisher argues that law does not apply to anything that he is accused of doing on january 6. the law says whoever corruptly alters, destroys, mutilates, or conceals a record, document, or other object or attempts to do so with the intense to impair the object's integrity for use or the official proceeding, obviously it will impede the official receding is subject to prosecution. one of the charges pending against donald trump is that very same charge that joseph fisher is appealing to the united states supreme court.

if they find in fisher's favor, they will find in donald trump's favor, which means clarence thomas publicly deepened the scandal that he lives in. he should have recused himself from hearing the case after his wife joined donald trump on january 6 when he was telling joseph fisher to go to the capitol and fight like hell. he approved of every word that donald trump said in incitement of insurrection at the capitol. so today, he chose to publicly sit in judgments of a legal matter that his wife was actually involved in. his wife was encouraging mark meadows to break the law in any way necessary to overturn the presidential election when there was no legal method for overturning the presidential election. he showed today that he doesn't

think there was anything special about the january 6 attack on the capitol. he had doesn't think it is any different from any other protest that we've seen in the past. >> there have been many violent protests that have interfered with proceedings. has the government applied this provision to other protests in the past and has this been the government's position throughout life span. >> it has certainly been the government's position since the enact of 1512c2 that it covers the myriad forms. >> and so have you enforced it in that manner? >> we have enforced it in a variety of prosecutions that don't focus on evidence tampering. now, i can't give you an example of enforcing it in a situation where people have violently stormed a building in order to prevent an official proceeding, a specified one, from occurring. with all the elements like intent to obstruct, knowledge

of the proceeding, having the circumstance that was ever happening prior to january 6. >> justice sonia sotomayor was not concerned about the hack of prosecutorial history. >> we've never had a situation before where there's been a situation like this with people attempting to stop a proceeding violently. so i'm not sure what they include. >> they told the court that joseph fisher knew exactly what he was doing on january 6. >> one of the root problems with e petitioners conduct is that he knew about that proceeding. he had said in advance of january 6 that he was prepared to storm the capitol, prepared to use violence. he wanted to intimidate congress. he said they can't vote if they can't breathe. and then he went to the capitol on january 6 with that intent in mind and took action

including assaulting a law enforcement officer. that did impede the ability of the officers to regain control of the capitol. i think it entirely appropriate for the government to seek to hold petitioner accountable for that conduct with that intent. >> joining us now is california congresswoman katie porter, who was a harvard law school student of professor, elizabeth warren, and a professor of law herself. congressman porter, you were in the supreme court chamber today, listening to that argument. i should address you as professor porter tonight in your law enforcement role. you spent years studying as a supreme court and those cases and years as a law professor. what do you make of today's? >> it was incredibly impressive to see the way that the government's lawyer responded

to a number of challenging and, someone who deals daily with the dysfunctional congress is grateful that we still seem to have some amazing people working in our administration who are fighting to make sure that our democracy is protected. so it was a very, very big pleasure to see the solicitor general at work today. >> it seemed to me as i listened to the justices that have had issues with this law. it seems to be all about the 20 years. it was all about the fact that it can carry a heavy penalty, but of course, there is no minimum mandatory minimum sentence attached to it as you get the feeling of listening to it. if this statute had just had a five-year maximum sentence or less that they wouldn't be there today. >> the punishment, the amount of sentence that something could carry is irrelevant to the interpretation of the

statute. deciding what the punishment should be is actually congress' job. it's to understand how to read the statute and then apply it to the facts, in this case, the extraordinary facts of january 6. so i did take note of that, that they were focused on the consequences, very much of who these protesters were on the fact we haven't had a situation like january 6 before. but look, we have had other kinds of criminals in our country, try to disrupt our government and engage in things whether it is witness tampering, threatening witnesses, destroying evidence. trying to interrupt the certification of an election to me, clearly falls under the statute of issues. >> let's listen to what the general said about the sentencing and the sentencings that have been issued in cases like this. >> we've looked at the average sentence here. there are about 50 that have

gone on sentencing, conviction, and sentencing on just 1512c2 as the felony. that's the best way to engage it. this is when the sentencing enhancements did apply. the average sentence among the approximately 50 people is 26 months of imprisonment, and the median has been 24 months. so there's no reasonable argument to be made that the staith four maximum here is driving anything with respect to sentencing. >> and also the other thing i heard from justice gorsuch and others is the attempt to compare what happened on january 6 to other forms of protest that seemed like they just didn't grasp the sing lairty singularity? >> they asked about hypotheticals, for example their own business, for example, and they had to adjourn on other kinds of protests or disruptions. one of the things they drove

home again and again, which is incredibly important for americans to understand is the statute requires that the criminal defendant have acted corruptly, wrongfully, knowingly. i thought they were protected by the first amendment, but they weren't. that wouldn't be covered by this. and the e-mails from mr. fisher and the messages he said about the gallows, sending them to the gallows. all of that evidence is necessary to bring a case under the statute. so they have very strong protections here to make sure that someone expressing an opinion, even an unpopular opinion would never face prosecution under this statute. you have to intend to stop the government from conducting its official business. to be acting intentionally to do that. >> yeah, i would have to say,

they made it. it seems like some of the trump appointed judges just ignored it. just didn't take it at all. congresswoman katie porter, thank you very much for the firsthand reading from the supreme court today. really appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, we'll have more on today's supreme court hearing next. >> tech: my ple. have a good one. >> woman: you too. >> tech: schedule today at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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i'm proud of it! at the spring court today, it seemed like the majority of the justices were treating the

20-year maximum sentence for obstructing a sentence. as if everyone convicted of the crime would automatically be sentenced to 20 years. in fact the 20-year sentence seemed to be what bothered the justices the most about the law. they had to remind the court more than once that 20 years is as she put it, just a max. >> and again, the 20-year statutory max, of course, is just a max. there is no mandatory minimum. so congress would have recognized that sentencing courts would use their discretion to tailor the actual sentence to the specific offense. >> during our discussion now, the former acting solicitor general who has argued over 50 cases before the united states supreme court. he's a professor at georgetown law school and an msnbc analyst. and andrew weissmann is back

with us. neil, i was so impressed with the solicitor general. it was a delivery there at high speed. what did you hear today? >> i'm so proud of elizabeth who was my associate for many years, and there is no one higher up. today, lawrence just demonstrated it. i know there's a lot of reporting out there that is like the supreme court is going to rule against the justice department. i think that is somewhat premature at this point. i've seen over 500 supreme court arguments. sometimes, you know, you know, sometimes you don't. after the argument, i think it is more of a ladder. i think donald trump is hoping for a big bang that will nullify the statute. i don't think he's going to get that. one is why trump meet get in

terms of relief and the other is followers like the one here where it is my gut. i think the court was particularly justice barrett was really entertaining the idea that their broad theory doesn't go quite this far. it is what jack has smith that he will have a narrower version of the statute that a donald trump or some of the hundreds of others, but would allow him because donald trump was focused on tampering with records, which is squarely a part of the statute. >> andrew, what is your sentence of how this could impact the jack smith prosecution of donald trump? >> very similarly, which is if there is a ruling in favor of fisher, this is really saying

the statute requires will something related to document. some kind of document destruction, a creation of fake documents. that isn't what was charged with respect to over 300 people. so this would have an enormous potential impact on people related to january 6. >> if they ruled that way, they would get retrials? >> they would get retrials in probably most of those cases. there would be a lot of arguments about it. generally speaking, that's what would happen. there might be a clean out and other ways to charge them. and fisher, for example, has other charges? >> exactly. if attacking a police officer or just entering the capitol. it's mostly something that would affect people with that charge. with respect to donald trump, the first one where he is facing four different accounts.

this would affect two of them. but he correctly points out that jack smith has said this directly to the court, which is that case at the very least involves the sort of fake scheme, which will involve the false documentation being used to obstruct congress. so it will depend on how they will write that decision. but you know, even on the sort of fisher claim, and he was asked about this. he said well that's a harder case than his case. so donald trump, really, you know, he could be hoping, but i still think that is sort of the tough road for him. i just want to say that i joined with elizabeth on the task force that you have special counsel who worked on it with the legal team. her preparation, it is really a sight to behold. how much of what you just played and how much she would work on that with everything she's been asked in her precise

wording is something that she goes over and over. so what you're seeing is something that's really a product of sort of intellect and skill and work ethic. >> yeah. neal, she has that speed that will come out so fast and so focused. neal, as we go forward here. what struck me is many of the justices were really tough on the petitioner. then they were tough on the solicitor general. it's one of those cases where they were going hard against each side. first i thought they were going hard on the petitioners, but they are coming at this from both sides? >> and that is what you would want. asking the tough questions to both sides. i do think that it is like a little interesting if they were to step backwards. how many times have justice alito and justice thomas asked questions about the fairness of a prosecution when it comes to

the criminal defendant. they are not particularly known for that. so it is a little striking to hear so many of those concerns today, coming out of that segment of the court. when you think of the dominant methodology of the court right now is reading the statute, that it is just what the plain text says. here is the plain text that's so good for the government, lawrence. it says it is a crime to otherwise obstruct, influence, or impede any official proceeding. it sure seems like dollars to donuts, not just what trump did, but what fisher did when the other 300 defendants were to obstruct an official proceeding. doesn't say anything about evidence in that destruction of evidence in that particular part of the statute. and that notably is what judge pam who wrote the court of appeal's opinion is what she harped on, which is this was a

standalone provision, and i didn't quite hear an answer to that in the argument today. so i know right now the reports are the government will lose, maybe not lose, almost certainly not lose the trump prosecution, but some of the hundreds of others. it's not clear to e me that anyone today took issue with what the judge said in your opinion. that leaves me some hope. what they did was illegal every day, every week, and they should be prosecuted behind bars for it. >> i noticed that same point, neil. as someone who has actually written law, that is a very catch all phrase and they wrote into that log and delivered. i know exactly the ways in

which they would sit there. otherwise make sure we've got something that will catch everything that we can't anticipate. andrew, quickly. >> it is worth noting that the statute came about because of the case. this particular statute and 15, 19, were trying to be as broad and expansive as possible. for me having worked on these statutes and the revisions was sort of ludicrous to hear these arguments and have it be read in a way that is, as neal said, counter to this sort of clear reading of the words. so again, i think this is a court that is doing whatever they can to sort of undermine those cases. you saw them at qualification. hopefully you won't see it here, but there are some justices who are favorable to reverse these. and then we also have next week, the presidential immunity

argument. that's a trifecta that will put on the integrity of this court on trial. >> andrew weissmann, neal katyal. thank you both for joining us on this important night. really appreciate it. thank you. coming up, while donald trump spent today in a new york city courtroom on trial, president biden was on the trail. he kicked off a three-day, campaign swing for the very important electoral college state of pennsylvania. that's next. the totally torqued-out crossover. nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt.

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we have our headquarters open. look, we have over a million people contributing to us. many are here in pennsylvania. and because almost 97 president of those are elders. we welcome them there and that presence here. >> biden visited his hometown of scranton, pad today, which included a stop after a campaign event at the scranton cultural center. there he is in front of his

childish home. at the cultural experience, biden said this. >> i don't see the eyes through them and that is a fact where they matter and where faith matters, where family is everything. knowing that wall street didn't build on this country. the middle class built this country and the union built the middle class. [ cheering ] we know the best way to build an economy is through the bottom up. not the top down. when you do that. they have a ladder up and they will on their wealthy stark contrast from my opponent. where he and his rich friends embrace the failed trickle down policies at a failed working families for more than 40 years.

scranton values, mar-a-lago values. these are the competing visions for our economy. under my plan, nobody earning less than $400,000 will pay an additional penny. i hope you're able to make $400,000. i never did. but they're not going to pay an extra penny in federal taxes. that's a promise. >> well, the president in scranton today. the biden, harris campaign about scranton values. >> we pride ourselves on the importance of family. honestly, hard work. >> joe loves scranton because this is the beginning. president biden is my first cousin, and there is a part of him still here in scranton. he was wealthy, we are so

optimistic where the future of scranton and continuing the work going ahead the next four years. >> joining us discussion now is the mayor of scranton, pennsylvania, paige cargetti, who was with the president today. thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> i'm so happy to be here. it's been an incredible day here in scranton. >> tell us about it. what was it like to have the president visit? >> well, we are lucky here that the president comes quite often. he loves coming home. i think you can see in his speech and the different shots of him today that he just really feels that home here. he sees a lot of his old friends in places where he used to ride his bike and he loves to tell us those stories. so it is a great view of him and how authentic he is when he's here in his hometown. >> the house he grew up in.

and in boston, similar to that one looks similar to that one. it must really mean a lot to him to be there? >> it does. it really does. it means a lot to us as scranton as we drove from the airport to the city. there were people there lining up in the streets. and that continued all night. so there is a long day, of course, as they would go. it is 8:00 at night where we are driving in the e motorcade back and the time for us that always is when he comes back. there is something special that you know you have a bright sunny beautiful day, that we've got the campaign going. people really want to see the president continue to lead our country. they want to see him continue to leave the economy. that we are still struggling on the household level, where we've got this great macro picture that they are dominating, firing on all cylinders. at the household level in cities like scranton, folks are trying to figure out how to pay

increasing utility bills and increasing rent. president biden is thinking about that. he is from a place like that and from a kitchen table just like that. they know those types of policies that he's thinking about day in and day out are going to benefit him. it's our job to keep talking about it. >> out in the western part of the state, which is a republican part of the state, the president has been surprised let's listen to the one thing he said. going through a neighborhood, a rural town in the middle of biden. and having a little kid standing there with his middle finger. >> that is pretty poisonous stuff and that is a creation of the trump era. >> it is. we have seen a real shift in what people are willing to say

out loud. we say it right here on scranton and in our city government or the last few years, where there has been this divisiveness from the public. it's not a majority of folks. but it's a small group. but you see that willingness to say outloud some of the nasty things that people read online. you people calling when they wouldn't have said it a handful of years ago. we have to fight through that. we have to fight to make sure that we are continuing to be decent in america, that we're continuing the policy that gives people dignity. that's what joe biden brings, right? today he was here talking about tax fairness. that is so important that we continue to be the part they are and he does not offer that type of leadership as we know that and he tells us all the time. something the president said today was listen to him.

listen to him. he's telling you who he is. the first time i heard the president say simply that i really like that and to make sure they are listening to both sides in making that choice. >> and one of joe biden's favorite mayors. thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> we'll be right back. before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of

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