of nato, of their gdp on defense spending that trump has pushed for, but i think you're seeing particularly america's european allies start to think about a world in which america is a much less reliable partner. >> a month or two ago, there was momentum in foreign capitals and the business world. that's cooled some. it seems like a pure toss up. that's where we are, months until the election. semafor's ben smith, thank you very much, we appreciate it. talk to you again soon. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. it's called legal expense. that's what you're supposed to call it. nobody has ever seen anything like it. so thank you very much for coming. i'm now going to sit down for many hours -- >> donald trump looks at the

world differently than you and me. he wakes up in the morning at mar-a-lago thinking about himself, how he can help his billionaire friends gain power and control. listen to what he says. he says quote, i'll be dictator on day one. quote, i am your retribution. he promises, quote, a blood bath if he loses. this guy denies january 6th. listen to what he says. because you know he means it. i wake up every morning thinking about how to make life better like you do for working and middle class families here in scranton and all across the country where the power and freedom rests with you and we the people. >> and that is a look at how the 2024 presidential campaign is likely to play out over the next several weeks. donald trump in court ranting

about the criminal cases against him while president biden is on the campaign trail taking his message to voters in key swing states. we'll have more about this stark contrast and bring you an update on trump's criminal hush money trial playing out in new york city. plus, the republican-led chaos continues on capitol hill. the threats to end make johnson's speakership are growing as he prepares to bring multiple foreign aid bills to the house floor. we'll go through the latest drama on all of that. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, april 17th, along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. member of the new york times editorial board, mara gay, and conservative attorney george conway is with us. we begin this morning with donald trump's hush money criminal trial with now seven jurors seated, sworn in, after a

busy day in court yesterday. the jury is anonymous, so their names were not used in open court but here's what we do know. the group so far is made up of four men and three women, include a salesman, an oncology nurse, an i.t. consultant, a teacher and a software engineer. other potential jurors were dismissed throughout the day as the process continued into the afternoon. reporters in the court describe trump as being more alert. at times looking intently at potential jurors as they answer questions. judge juan merchan believes the jury process will be completed this week, and advised the jurors already seated to be ready for open arguments to begin on monday morning. the day ran so smoothly that donald trump claimed outside of court that the judge was rushing the trial. >> so we think we have a highly

conflicted judge who shouldn't be on the case, and he's rushing this trial. >> in all 12 jurors and 6 alternates are needed. the trial will not be in session on wednesday. the process resumes tomorrow. >> george conway, the pace seems to be going at a fairly quick clip. what are you seeing, and what do you expect? >> it is going faster than it seems to at first. they started with a panel of 96 people, and i think the way that it was expedited. the way he expedited is asked everybody up front, if you can't be impartial, raise your hand, essentially. that got rid of about 2/3 of the veneer of the pool so they began focusing on the remaining 30 or

so. it was done very efficiently. there was a questionnaire, and they made each person get into the box, and go through the questionnaire, answer questions yes, no, explain if there were complicating factors. the judge would intervene if there was a question that, you know, that required a little, and the lawyers asked, and they came up with six people, and it was all very efficiently done. and i think it's going to speed up because each side gets ten peremptory challenges, meaning they can challenge without stating a reason, and both sides have used six to strike jurors. they only have four left. there's a limit to what they can do. they need to pick eleven more jurors. five will sit on the panel of 12

and there will be six alternates. there's no reason they can't get this done by friday. >> there were concerns about how slow this was going. it ramped up. you were in the overflow room. you know at one point during the jury selection, the judge gave donald trump and his attorney a warning about trump's behavior. it came after one potential juror was being questioned about her facebook post after the 2020 election. when she left the room, the judge admonished trump, telling the lawyers, your client was audibly uttering something. i will not have any jurors intimidated in this courtroom. i want to make that crystal clear. that's the judge talking directly to donald trump and his lawyer. george, we know about the his -- histrionics a couple of days ago. how does that play -- how does that affect what's happening in the courtroom? >> it's great that the judge is

clamping down on that early. his conduct in the courtroom is really very demonstrative, and very emotional at times, and i actually don't think he has a complete ability to control himself. i think we saw that during the e. jean carroll trial. i think we're going to see it again, and i think it's important for the judge to give him warnings that he can't do that in front of the jury. the fact is, to the extent he does that in front of the jury shows disrespect for the jury and doesn't necessarily help him. that's one of the reasons why i think he was hit with the $83.3 million verdict during the second e. jean carroll trial. he sat in front of the jury and showed contempt for the entire process and contempt for the jury, which dove tailed nicely that the other side was trying to prove, this is a bad guy who doesn't respect anything.

>>able jonathan lemire, you understand that his lack of discipline is legendary. he wrote in "art of the deal" that he didn't have the discipline to sit down and make plans for a day. he showed up in the office, answered phones, moved around. drudge puts it this way, don in hell with a picture of donald trump inside the courtroom, and for anybody that knows him, reported on him, has been around him. the fact that this guy has to sit in a courtroom, six, seven, eight hours a day. >> that's not good for him. >> required to. >> it's something he has never done his entire life. >> he has a legendary short attention span ricochetting from one thought to the next, would frustrate his business advisers and his white house staff. he's been, best i can tell, disciplined, a handful of times in his left, the last week of

the election, he was convinced to stay off twitter, and we know that helped him win in the last few days with an assist from fbi director comey, but that's certainly the exception rather than the rule. he is in discipline. i was speaking to someone in trump world last night who did acknowledge that, the physical toll this is taking on trump already. a couple of times we have seen him close his eyes, potentially asleep. though he's been in courtrooms a lot in recent months, most of those appearances relatively brief, an hour here, a couple of hours there. lots of breaks. he never had to be there for eight, nine hours at a time, and he's going to have to do that each and every day. he gets today off but he'll be back tomorrow. he'll be back friday. he'll be back monday, and there's concern in trump world about the physical toll this will take on him. his campaign schedule already has to be curtailed inherently because of the time commitment to new york. they wonder, will he be up for

it. will he be able in his free moments to hit the road. he made a brief appearance at a local business yesterday. his aides are talking about having more new york city events. there's a limit to how much he'll get politically out of those. he's scheduled of a rally in north carolina this weekend. between the physical toll and the lack of money and the need to be in the courthouse, joe and mika, this may be a dramatically smaller campaign than we're used to for donald trump. >> and the lack of money preventing him from doing so much, but there's been a big difference between this time in the courtroom and past times. past times, most of the time it was voluntary. here, big difference between a voluntary appearance and an appearance where you are required to attend, and i will just say, yeah, anybody sitting six, seven, eight hours. if i were sitting somewhere for eight hours, i would be falling asleep. >> he can't even get through

four. >> writing songs! yeah, it's hard to get through four, and mika lets me talk to stay awake. what a physical toll for anybody. >> this is where also it helps to have real firsthand knowledge of donald trump over the course of over a decade. and the guy has no attention span. we've seen it up front and how we've known people who have worked for him, and they have to work around this sort of add mentality that he has, and the need for attention. constant attention. making moments and mara gay -- >> and by the way, being in charge in whatever he sets up, every meeting, every everything. here, as you were saying yesterday, mika went through a scene in the courtroom, donald trump had to sit while they're going okay, juror -- >> we could go to 4a and look at

clause b. >> i don't think it's clause b. bring the other ones in. can you imagine donald trump sitting through that, like going crazy. >> going nuts. >> because, again, and i think, again, you put a lot of ceos on that list sitting there for six, seven, eight hours, why do i say all of this, it's going as jonathan lemire and the campaign is right, it's going to exact a toll on him. >> i want to counter that with the rage he might feel in this situation of not having control. mara gay, i think, you know, there's the other side of this, and the concerns some might have, many might have about the gag order being broken, sort of broken already many times. and people's number one, lives being put in danger by what he says about them, but also number two, ginning up anger. he walks outside of the courthouse, and does these speeches. we don't take most of them at this point unless he says

something of news worthiness, and going to this bodega and having hundreds of people wanting to meet him, and these moments covered by fox news and far right networks as sort of campaign events. i think there is something to be said for what he can do with this. your thoughts? >> well, that's certainly a concern, and you saw yesterday that the judge recognized that concern in admonishing him and saying, i'm not going to have, you know, mumblings in my courtroom that could intimidate potential jurors. that's a concern shared by many. i agree with george. i think his pr capabilities are going to be somewhat limited in new york city or maybe it was john that mentioned that a moment ago. that's absolutely true. it's an ongoing concern. essentially he's like a caged animal, and that's a dangerous situation. he's feeling very threatened. he's out of control, and so we do expect him to lash out.

anybody who has covered him over the past decade can expect that. but, you know, one of the things that i actually find reassuring about the past couple of days is just how mundane and ordinary this trial looks. i was actually called for jury duty in new york city last year, and it was much the same kind of process in a criminal trial. at end of the day, i was not -- i ended up not serving, mostly because of the work we do here. but, you know, it is reassuring that donald trump is no different than anybody else who would be called in this kind of a trial. you know who else is having to sit there for eight, nine hours a day, these jurors whose lives have been interrupted and, you know, that is part of the democratic process, and it is playing out so far exactly as it should. which isn't supposed to be fixated on some outcome but on a fair trial in a free democracy that would be no different for anybody else. i also think that that really

does give a little bit of gravitas to this case that has been in some quarters controversial, seen as maybe not as serious as the other trials but the reality is, and i have covered trials here in new york, anybody who may have committed a crime should be held accountable for that crime. and we're seeing this play out, and i think it's reassuring. i think it's hopefully encouraging americans and voters ultimately that our system still works. even for a former president. >> by the way, nice to see native new york, donald trump go to a bodega for the first time in his life yesterday after trial. so guys, the other thing that we, i think, should underline when we came in at the top of the show is there's donald in the bodega, which is the contrast we saw. donald trump sitting inside a courtroom, which he's going to be doing for a large portion of this year, whether it's in new york, florida, georgia, up in washington, while the president of the united states, the man he's running against is in a

place like scranton, pennsylvania, talking about jobs, talking about the needs of people. talking about their lives and where he wants to take them in a second term. don't underestimate how that over time what that looks like to a voter, which is this guy is an alleged criminal sitting in court, many courts and this is a guy out here campaigning for us in states that have to be won. donald trump is right, he's not going to be in pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan as much as he should be. there's a good way to avoid that, which is to not commit alleged crimes, then you don't have to go to court for an entire year. >> and the question that's been asked for some time is what would the impact of this trial be, what would the impact be if he were actually convicted of any of these felonies. we'll see. and good point also, very glad mara gay brought it up.

just the appearance on "morning joe" will get you stricken from any jury in the united states and limit you in many other ways as well. for instance, we're not allowed to buy kitchen appliances with whirling blades, lawn instruments as well. >> lawn mowers, can't have one. coming up -- thank god i have the push mower for you to use from my parents. you're good at it. it doesn't have an engine. >> exactly. >> coming up in just one minute, the effort to oust -- >> i should be out campaigning, but go ahead. >> mike johnson gains momentum as another house republican signs on to a motion to remove him from his post. we'll have the latest in the gop drama on capitol hill. house republicans deliver articles of experiment against homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas to the senate. we'll go over what to expect at

his trial in the upper chamber later today. "morning joe" is back in 60 seconds. back in 60 seconds. hello, ghostbusters. it's doug. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. we got a bit of a situation. [ metal groans] sure, i can hold. ♪ liberty liberty liberty liberty ♪ in theaters now.

beautiful live picture of sunrise in washington. 6:18 in the morning. house speaker mike johnson says he plans to bring the gop-led foreign aid package to the floor. which include aid for iran, indo pacific allies. rank and file republicans are angry the package does not address the southern border. johnson's saving grace, though, could be democrats. he spoke to president biden last night and congressional democrats appear inclined to support the package as long as

no republican poison pills are included. >> there's no option off the table right now from procedural measures that bring this directly to the floor to any votes that are options. if it delivers as the vice chair said, if it delivers the four points that we're concerned about, it should be something that's on the table. >> speaker johnson's move to push forward with the foreign aid package could cost him his job. republican congressman, thomas massey has announced his support for marjorie taylor greene's motion to oust the speaker. johnson's actions on government funding, fisa and the foreign aid to ukraine contributed to his decision. on the other side of the aisle, some democrats, including congressman jared moskowitz of florida say they will try to stop the ouster to keep order in the lower chamber. here's what massey said yesterday followed by the speaker's thoughts on what's happening on capitol hill.

>> i asked him to resign. >> and what did he say? >> he said he would not. and i said you're the one that's going to put us into this. the motion is going to get called. anybody doubt that? the motion will get called, and he's going to lose more votes than kevin mccarthy, and i have told him this in private, but weeks ago. >> i am not resigning, and it is in my view an absurd notion that someone would bring a vacate motion when we are simply here trying to do our jobs. we need steady leadership. we need steady hands at the wheel. look, i regard myself as a wartime speaker. a couple of days ago on his social media, this is the hardest challenge that's face add speaker in the history of the country, the moment we're in right now. arguably may be comparable to the civil war, but maybe worse. >> maybe worse. so joe and mika, it's thomas massey and margie taylor greene saying it out loud with the motion to vacate.

there are republicans unhappy with speaker johnson, maybe unhappy down the road to jump aboard. at the core of this, they don't want aid going to ukraine, number one. they want something done about the southern border. for those with short memories, let's remember the bipartisan package on the border was completed a couple of months ago, they had what they asked for and when it came to their desks, they didn't want it. >> because donald trump told them not to do it. by the way, for the speaker, i'm glad he's doing what he's doing now, but just for the speaker, he doesn't have to go back to the civil war to a time when a speaker faced a worse situation than he's facing now. all he has to do is go back to january 6th, 2021. and what happened after he was running around the house floor trying to get liz cheney and everybody else to overthrow the results of the election. which of course is what he was doing, what paxton was doing, what trump was doing, what all

of these people were doing led to a riot. and the greatest challenge inside that capitol since, you know, since the civil war. so, i mean, it's crazy. by the way, these guys that go, you know, i'm going to take dwn the speaker, 1 of 435. and mika, as you were saying yesterday, democrats may be saying hold our beer. >> they might. joining us now, congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post", jackie alemany, with more on this and the drama unfolding and the state of foreign aid. jackie, who are these democrats and how might they save the day for the speaker? >> yeah, mika, this is the month's long culmination of a struggle bus to get this funding that is now at this point in time considered more critical than ever by growing cohorts of

both parties to get through. the question is whether or not speaker johnson is ultimately going to have the courage today to actually introduce the text of this four-part, $95 billion aid package, and whether or not democrats are actually going to step up to the plate like they have increasingly been saying they're going to in order to help mike johnson get through and navigate these hard line gop conservatives who essentially want to blow everything up and take mike johnson's job away from him for seeing a new speaker's fight for the second time in six months. these democrats are realists, especially. like you just showed, jared moskowitz, josh gottheimer, some of the more centrist, and even further than that, people who, at this point, people like dan goldman, people who just want to see their workplace function in a time when our foreign allies are desperately waiting on us

and waiting for our support. as speaker johnson said, he considers himself a wartime speaker at this point in time, and i think that's what's driving his desire to get this on the floor now, despite his personal opposition to funding ukraine. >> you know, what's so fascinating, jonathan lemire, is if these bills do, in fact, go out one by one, you're going to have aid to israel. i think a lot of democrats, progressive democrats that have traditionally been more pro-palestinian than mainstream politicians in washington, d.c. will vote against that aid but the overwhelming amount of republicans will vote for it. and ukraine aid, you've got a lot of pro putin, pro russia, pro trump republicans that are in the back benches of the house who will vote against it, but

you've got a lot of democrats that are going to actually be voting for it. so you're going to actually have these cross currents that may lead to the passage of aid for israel and ukraine and of course taiwan. >> some unlikely coalitions. you're right about there's progressive anger and reluctance to vote for. that may be called after the strikes for iran. many will stick with their votes because of the anger about what's happening in gaza. you are right about ukraine. there are votes to pass this thing. a relatively small number of republicans that oppose it. they carry a lot of power. the white house opposes this measure to separate the bills. they still think they need to be combined. they fear ukraine will fall by the wayside if that does not occur. they want johnson to bring the senate bill to the floor. and, jackie, first of all, compliments to you for use of the phrase struggle bus. that's precisely what this is

now. >> i'm running out of descriptors. >> you nailed it. we liked it here at table. let's walk down the path with speaker johnson and this effort to take away his power, to oust him from his position. if democrats come to his aid, doesn't that mortally wound him politically going forward. how does he raise money, command the republican caucus if you have been propped up by the other side. then the other alternative is if he is ousted or walks away from this, what happens then to the house of representatives? who's in charge? >> yeah, these are really difficult scenarios to play out. and i think that some republican dysfunction we're seeing has overshadowed some of the growing chasms and fractures happening in the democratic party. johnson is going to have a hard time doing his job relying on democrats. that's been his reticence to

bring this to the floor and push it through knowing that it's not going to get through without the support of democrats. how is he going to fund raise and be the top fundraiser for the house gop conference and the republican party on capitol hill when he's going to have to point to compromise, something that is somewhat of a poison pill in this current environment. that being said, there are really not many alternatives here, and even hard line conservatives, people like marjorie taylor greene, and thomas massey, these are people that are angering their own colleagues and people who consider themselves their own allies. there's not a lot of backup plans here, and i think at the end of the day, johnson can say that he is, you know, months before an important november election trying to maintain the majority for republicans. and trying to run a functioning congress that isn't as

historically unproductive and ineffective as the last congress was. >> and, you know, willie, it seems to me, anybody that's paying close attention, even some of the hard corps republicans have said, no, enough, we're not going to do this. after massey stepped down, jim jordan, telling reporters, no, no, we do not want to go there again. other republicans saying, this is the last thing we need to do and the first thing democrats want us to do is to look more chaotic. >> and where's the end of this? we couldn't find anybody, if you're a republican to fill the job for kevin mccarthy. they landed on a relative unknown, and speaker mike johnson, if you get rid of speaker mike johnson, who comes next. you go through this again, and you have a group of republicans who are now just saying the thing out loud as president biden pushes for foreign aid to support allies in need. congressman garrett graves said

this. >> the reality is you have to keep in mind, president biden asked for ukraine. president biden asked for israel. president biden asked for taiwan and president biden supports the changes to tiktok. what are republicans getting out of this? >> so, george conway, that's the question that congressman graves is asking, what's in it for us, talking about aid to ukraine. they want to get something out of the deal, hold the aid for leverage and don't think they get anything out of the united states filling an obligation to an ally. >> they don't seem to care about that. they are just a bunch. speaker johnson as much as i don't like him, i think he has to do the right thing by the country, which will be the right thing by himself. he needs to cut a deal with the

democrats where the democrats will vote to table a motion to vacate in exchange for him putting this stuff on the floor and getting it through one way or the other, whether it's four bills or one, and that's going to obviously hurt speaker johnson in some ways. he'll at least survive to fight another day, and it's the best interest of the country. he knows that. many many most republicans, frankly know that, and certainly democrats know that, and there's no reason why a nut job minority of a few handful of members should be allowed to block legislation that's in the best interest of the united states of america? >> yeah, you know, these arguments, what does it do for the united states of america, always have been shortsighted. donald trump, what does nato do for america. >> this guy was asking what it does for the republicans. >> in post world war ii, you know, what have all of these international organizations done?

well, it's allowed the united states to grow at an unprecedented rate, be the most powerful military, most powerful economy, the most powerful, you name it, in the world. this international structure where we don't have countries invading other sovereign countries in the heart of europe. that's good for the united states and also just to be very direct, jonathan, this investment continues to destroy what is the second strongest military in the world, and that as poorly as they have fought, that is the russian military right now. you look at the number of men that have been taken off the battlefield for the russians, you look at the fact that i think one-third of their tanks, military vehicles have been destroyed, not a single american has died. and yet tens, they've lost tense

of billions of dollars of military equipment in russia, and their military power has been compromised to a degree that it's going to take them a generation to recover. what do republicans get out of it? it's good for america, and i don't know, maybe they should be concerned about what's good for america instead of what's good for vladimir putin. i still go back to what the head of the intel committee and the republican head of the intel committee and the republican head of the foreign affairs committee said a lot of republicans in our own conference that have swallowed whole and are spitting out vladimir putin's propaganda. >> repeating putin's propaganda because they think that's what donald trump wants as the leader of their party. and certainly, joe, the return on investment for the united states has been extraordinary. i won't repeat what you just said but the russian military has a little momentum in

ukraine, but on the whole it's badly degraded because of the u.s.'s funding with help from european allies enabling ukraine to really strike at the heart of the russian military and damage. and also we have started hearing from speaker johnson in recent days, a talking point the white house has been using for months. a lot of investments going to american companies. they're back filling american arms manufacturers. that's going to happen at home. there's an economic benefit here for this funding. it's not just going to drop into keys, it's going to be here in the united states in order to supply ukraine. that's important as well. and talking point, they should perhaps use for their constituents, frankly, some of those arms manufacturers are housed in red states. so, mara, let's talk about the big picture as the world watches, and with great unease about how the united states can't be counted upon like it used to be? this dysfunction in the house of

representatives where we might lose a speaker again or come out with one who's paralyzed and can't do much of anything. there's still a path. this is not a done deal these bills are going to get through. if they don't and the u.s. fails to meet its commitment to ukraine, what does that say to the rest of the world particularly with the possibility of another trump presidency looming? >> well, i think lots of europeans, some friends of mine who are deeply concerned. that is an ongoing concern. the uncertainty of what would happen if trump were to return to the white house is something that leaders around the world, democratic and not are closely watching. and so our enemies are also watching, and are chomping at the bit to see this kind of uncertainty and unrest. i think going back to the reason for this shifting policy is almost more disturbing. it's not as though there's some

coalition of new thinking about what's best for america. what we just witnessed is a cohort of republicans in power, in the house saying, well, what's best for republicans. not what's best for america. and i guess i wonder at this moment if going to pay any political price for that? is this something that the biden campaign can splice and turn into an ad? or is this just washington insider baseball? i don't think there are a lot of americans that would appreciate this dysfunction at the cost of foreign policy. >> given that, jackie alemany, what will you be looking for today in your coverage? >> there's two things primarily. we're going to wait and see if mike johnson ultimately decides to push this $95 billion aid package through. he's running out of time because

of the 72-hour rule which requires 72 hours of internal debate over it, meaning that this would get to the house floor for a vote on saturday, and mike johnson is unfortunately going to lose one more republican member, mike gallagher who's retiring on friday, meaning that in terms of a worst case scenario for him, where a motion to vacate is actually brought to the floor and marjorie taylor greene gets more than just thomas massey. it will only require one more republican to support that in order for that to be discharged and a simple majority for them for that to actually oust speaker johnson. on the other side of capitol hill today, there's also a little thing called the senate impeachment trial. >> right. >> perhaps one of the lack of substance. these two articles of

impeachment that republicans in the senate decried in terms of what they charge against alejandro mayorkas. they are calling for a trial nevertheless because they're calling on democrats to adhere to precedent and saying that, you know, there's never been an impeachment trial that hasn't actually gone to trial in the senate regardless of the merits of the argument. that's starting at 1:00 p.m. today, and we'll see how long that goes on for and whether super conservative republicans in the senate decide to have their own little revolt over a lack of a border policy. >> you know, mika, with all this going on on the house side and the senate side, there's no doubt jackie's going to be riding the struggle bus all day. >> "the washington post" jackie alemany. i knew that was coming. attorney george conway, thank you as well. i'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of you with everything that's

going on: before we go to break, some sad news to report. >> just a great guy, former florida governor, u.s. senator bob graham has passed away. the moderate democrat passed away yesterday at the age of 87. graham was among the relatively few democrats elected to be governor of florida. he left office as one of the state's most popular politicians with an 83% voter approval rating. he then went on to serve three terms in the u.s. senate and gained national prominence as chairman of the senate intelligence committee in the aftermath of the 2001 terrorist attacks and was an early critic of the iraq war. bob graham retired in 2005 after serving nearly four decades in public office, and, you know, he was from the '70s on, there weren't a whole lot of democrats that got elected as governor,

but he had the common touch. he would bag groceries at publix one day. go to u.s. air the next day, and he would do bags. he had these works days that he did throughout his career, whether it was as a state senator or as governor or a u.s. senator, and he really connected? when i first got to washington, i got a call from him. which was a big deal. hey, i would love to meet you sometime congressman, i said, senator graham, anytime, where would you like to meet. i'll just walk on over. walked over to the office. i think my second day there. >> so nice. oh, my gosh. >> came in said, i'm here, tell me what you need. >> i hope you presented well. >> democratic senator, a republican. of course i probably had my breakfast on my jacket, but you

know what, i somehow managed to get by. >> that's a great story. so kind. >> just a wonderful, loving man. and our thoughts are with gwen and the rest of the graham family told. >> absolutely. coming up, we're going to show you more of president biden's visit to his hometown of scranton, pennsylvania, where he called out donald trump by name several times. also ahead, kari lake's alarming rhetoric on the campaign trail. the republican senate candidate in arizona suggested that her supporters arm themselves. >> i wonder how that plays with swing voters. >> leading up to november's election. really, really kari lake? "morning joe" is coming right back. joe" is coming right back let's get started. bill, where's your mask? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. now i sleep with inspire. inspire? no mask? no hose? just sleep. learn more, and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com

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election. she made the comments at a campaign rally on sunday. >> the next six months is going to be intense. and we need to strap on our, let's see, what do we want to strap on. we're going to strap on our seat belt. we're going to put on our helmet or your kari lake ball cap. we are going to put on the armour of god. then maybe strap on a glock on the side of us just in case. you can put one here and one in the back or one in the front, whatever you guys decide. because we're not going to be the victims of crime. we're not going to have our second amendment taken away, we're certainly not going to have our first amendment taken away by the tyrants. >> it's not great audio. she said she wanted to put on a seat belt, the armor of god, and a glock on her hip, and got into

comments about the second amendment. republican senator tom cotton of arkansas is doubling down on his comments. we told you about this yesterday, where he told citizens to forcibly remove pro palestinian protesters blocking traffic on major bridges and roads across the country. cotton told people to confront them with physical force. here is senator cotton doubling down on that stance to nbc news. >> vigilantes who are blocking traffic in the streets when mom is trying to get kids to school or people trying to go to the hospital, or just trying to get to work should be removed from the streets, yes, i said that, i posted it, i would do it myself if i found myself in the situation. >> you said people should take matters into their own hands. could you clarify what that means. >> it calls for getting out of your car and forcibly removing

pro-hamas vigilantes blocking streets on major highways so traffic can continue. >> senator cotton maintains he's not calling for violence against the protesters but did show a group of men dragging protesters off the road with the senator captioning, quote, how it should be done. we talked about this yesterday. senator cotton sayshe does not want you to use violence. we talked about how annoying it is, but that's separate from what senator is saying here. >> yeah, i mean, of course he went down the list of things that we said make us angry when idiots go out and decide they're going to protest by blocking roads, stopping people from getting their children to school or people maybe taking their elderly parents to a hospital. it is just so dangerous, and again counter productive for any

cause. anybody that does that, i'm against your cause. just, you know, i think that's how most motorists would agree with it. but, willie, he can't step out of the fact that he was talking about ripping the skins off people's hands, talking about throwing people off the golden gate bridge. this happened on the golden gate bridge, we throw them over the bridge. they need to do that. and so you have, again, him talking about violence. and you just ask yourself, why is -- does a politician think that's the road to popularity. kari lake talks about the armor of god and carrying a glock, and for some reason with that audience, the glock gets a bigger cheer than the armor of god. back when i was running at least for people in most audiences, armor of god would probably do

better than strapping on a glock. you say that, people go, what's wrong with him. and it goes, again, the audience cheering for that, you know, reminds me of donald trump and audiences gleefully talking about a man in his 80s being awakened from sleep and nearly being bludgeoned to death by a hammer. they still celebrate. and i say they, not just donald trump, you can all say, how sick donald trump is. look at the audience. the audience is cheering. they're laughing that a man in his 80s got bludgeoned almost to the point of death by a guy that went in, i don't know, screaming, you know, maga chant, where's nancy, where's nancy. so this is, again, this is just the glorification of violence and the big question is why does

this glorification of violence sell so well in donald trump's republican party? it's sick. it's sad. it's un-american. >> it's scary, and, willie, once again, we have to look at this for what it is or what it appears to be like, and it's almost cult like behavior, mimicking him. taking on his positions. even if some of them are evil and cruel and vie len. >> -- and violent. >> everyone is doing a poor plan's version of donald trump. that's what you saw from kari lake at that rally. to joe's point, she didn't get the response by armor of god, better throw the glock in the conversation, so she did. they know what works with their base, and they're going to keep pushing on that.

when people in the media call them out and question it, there's value to double down on it. joining us now, "new york times" best selling author, eddie glaude jr. author of "we are the leaders we have been looking for." eddie, we are so excited about your book. we're going to talk a bunch about it today. had a great conversation around it yesterday. just your reaction to the two clips we heard here and what it says about the political climate we have lived in now for the last, call it a decade or so. >> we always need to remember that the spectrum of violence present when it comes to politics, particularly in the moment when we're so divided. tom cotton didn't say the same thing about the insurrectionists on january 6th. he wasn't talking about forcibly moving or pulling skin off folks that attacked the capitol. there are certain folk in tom cotton's mind who have the right to protest, and other folk who

just simply need to shut up and be grateful they're in the country. so we need to understand where he is and where kari lake is, and understand the spectrum of violence is the shadow, the cloud over our politics in this moment. people need to be well aware of that. >> we want to turn to your book, yesterday, you called on every day americans to take control of democracy, instead of expecting heroes and prophets to manage it themselves. but as you write in chapter 2 of the book, you had to come to that realization yourself with regards to one of your own heroes, malcolm x. >> we want free, by any means necessary. we want justice by any means necessary. we want equality by any means necessary. we don't feel that in 1964 living in a country that is

supposedly based upon freedom, and supposedly the leader of the free world, we don't think we should have to wait for a segregationist, to make up their mind that our people are due now some degree of civil rights. no, we want it now or we don't think anybody should have it. >> so very prescient in these times, mara gay, it really does, if you care about democracy, you cannot sit back during these times we're in right now. >> wow. i mean, watching malcolm x, it's captivating, but, you know, i had the pleasure of reading eddie's book and interviewing him about it the other day at a local bookstore in new york city. one of the things i love about the book is it talks about the other tradition of black american activism and democracy. democratization, which is much

more about grass roots change versus just a focus on leaders. and allowing them to kind of do the bidding of others, and, so you know, really the woman who i'm thinking of this morning, i'm actually not thinking of malcolm x, i'm thinking of ella baker, who founded the student arm of the movement. she said, famously, strong people don't need strong leaders, right, and so eddie's book really gets the that, and i just wanted to know, eddie, if you could talk a little bit for us about the role of black politics in this time of trumpism. what do americans need to know about its contribution to democracy? >> i think it's really important for us to understand that every day ordinary folk, no matter what community you're in, that we need to take responsibility for our democracy, and that means we need to engage in the political process. this election, very very directly, we need to turn out in

massive numbers, and we need to hold each other accountable for in some ways making a new america possible. what i'm trying to do in this book is get my way to -- make my way to that insight. right? from a different kind of pathway, and that is through my own kind of effort to find my own political voice. >> certainly an influential figure for you would be your parents, in particular your father who you write about in this book, eddie, and congratulations, we're so happy for you and excited to read it. tell us about that relationship, and how it helped shape, you found your voice. >> i begin chapter 2 with a difficult experience, i was playing hopscotch with a young woman down the street when i was in elementary school. i was playing with her because i thought she was so cute, and i wanted to mess up. i was stepping on all the lines because i wanted her to show it to me over and over again. i hear my dad scream for me to

come down. and then i came into the house, and he asked me this question, what are you a fag or something in front of my uncle. this was a moment, i was just a young man, a young child, questioning my sexuality by the most responsible man i have known. i am any father's child. i look just like him. he is the most responsible person. he put all of the discipline i could imagine that i have in me, but he scared the shit out of me. he could just look at me, and i could cry. and so i had to figure out or i had to deal with something in my gut, and that is that i felt like i was a coward. because he scared me so. and so i found myself reaching for heroes and malcolm became mine. so that's why i have my goatee still. >> wow.

>> wow. so let me ask you, eddie. >> sure. >> and i want people to hear me. let those with ears hear. i'm not comparing these next two men i'm talking about. you've got an extraordinary message. but look at who we elected president from 2008 to 2020. you had in barack obama a guy who was like a superstar who i remember driving past places and seeing pop art. almost like warhol art, and you had people talking about, lining, this guy was a second coming of christ, he was called black jesus. he was elevated to such a high degree that there were times that his own wife was like come on, guys, calm down.

his feet smell. just stop it. right? >> right. >> they were definitely in on the joke, but for americans for some reason, this guy was elevated to black jesus status. they needed that. that's what they called him inside the campaign. and then just the mirror image of that. we then have americans, another part of the americans race to go -- racing to this pop figure. we go from pop art to now something that i think is genuinely unhealthy for republicans, democrats, whatever, a politician becoming their identity. flying flags, screaming out things. just constantly. and in both cases, you had americans. they needed a big leader, a big leader on the left. a big leader on the right when

they weren't looking to themselves. they weren't looking to their communities. they weren't looking to their people. they needed a political savior, and as you and i both know, that doesn't work. >> you hit it right on the head. we're always looking for john wayne or marvel comic superhero, and we think that john wayne has a kind of moxie that we don't have. i'm dating myself or the marvel comic, they have superhero problems, radio active spider bit someone, that's the only way you can be heroic. i think that's just wrong. ralph waldo emerson said great people come to us to make even greater people possible. they exemplify what they're capable of. one of the things i had to do with malcolm is i lost myself in my imitation of him. i had to understand the way in which he was kind of searching. when we were reading the pulitzer prize winning biography together, she said, when he left

the nation, he was failing and flailing about. he was a wounded witness. what does that mean for me? it brings malcolm, like dr. king yesterday, it brings him down to the ground as an example. the jury i have made with my father, this man who loved me to death, he loved me hard, oh, my god, and i know you're watching, and i want you to get better, and i want you to know i love you more than beyond numbers, man. that you have made me who i am. you see, i look just like him. that's why i'm a senior. this, i had to understand that malcolm is an exemplification of what i can be. we don't need a barack obama to be black jesus. we don't need a donald trump to save the country. we need each other, that's the only way america can step into a new way of being, joe. and i'm arguing that in the

book. >> it sounds like a message that could motivate a lot of voters that are feeling disaffected, do you think that's something democrats should pay closer attention to, rather than acting adds saviors or trying to. >> political parties need to stop treating americans as cattle chewing cud. americans, we need to become better people. when we become better people, we'll send better people to washington, d.c. >> all right. eddie glaude jr., thank you so much, the new book, "we are the leaders we have been looking for" is on sale now. and eddie will continue his morning joe book residency tomorrow right here. and mara gay, thank you as well. we really appreciate it. we are two minutes into the second hour of "morning joe" right now, and jury selection in donald trump's hush money

criminal trial will resume tomorrow morning. yesterday, four men and three women were seated after a busy day in court. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has the details. >> reporter: seven jurors have now been chosen to sit in judgment of former president trump closely watching what one juror who was dismissed described as a surreal selection process. >> it's like, oh, this is just another guy, and also he sees me talking about him, which is bizarre. >> of those selected so far, a salesperson, an oncology nurse, two attorneys, an i.t. consultant, a teacher and a software engineer. the slow moving vetting process springing into an animated focus group-like atmosphere with the pool of nearly two dozen manhattan residents offering their unvarnished views of the presumptive gop nominee to his case, under questioning of the prosecution and defense. one man calling mr. trump quote, fascinating and mysterious.

one revealing he was a big fan of the apprentice in middle school. a woman saying, president trump speaks his mind, and i'd rather that than someone who's in office who you don't know what they're thinking. and a fourth prospective jury telling attorneys, i'm a democrat, there you go, but i walk in there and he's a defendant. that's all there is. pointing out past social media posts. including one who said, lock him up. while the judge fumed at mr. trump for appearing to mutter something, warning, i will not have any jurors intimidated in this courtroom. jury selection is ongoing until 12 people and six alternates are selected. the former president is accused of falsifying business records, by mischaracterizing -- >> it's called legal expenses,

that's what you're supposed to call it. nobody has ever seen anything like it. >> meanwhile in washington the supreme court's conservative majority appearing skeptical of a federal obstruction law that could affect some charges mr. trump faces in a different criminal case. the case in front of the justices about a former police officer who wants charges stemming from his participation on january 6th dropped, the same law mr. trump has been charged with in his election interference case, some of the justices pressing whether the law could sweep up those engaged in legitimate protests. >> what happened on january 6th was very very serious. we need to find out what are the outer reaches of this statute under your interpretation. >> nbc's laura jarrett reporting. jonathan lemire still with us, joining the conversation, we have msnbc contributor, mike barnicle, and former u.s.

senator claire mccaskill. she and jennifer palmieri are co hosts of the podcast, "how to win 2024." claire, i want to tap into your prosecutor skills, and ask what you thought about day one and two of jury selection. are you surprised at the pace that this is going? >> no, this is a judge who has tried a lot of criminal cases. none like this, obviously. but he's marching everyone quickly towards jury selection. but i just want to say this, and i hate to say it out loud, but i'm really worried about a stealth juror. i don't think that donald trump will be acquitted. but he could easily have a hung jury. all it takes is one. all someone has to do is say they can be fair when they're saying in their head, i don't

have to be fair. i'll make sure this jury doesn't convict donald trump. stealth jurors happen all the time, they are not honest about their ability to set aside bias, and hear the evidence as it comes in. but i think it could be a problem in this case. there's nothing you can do in jury selection to ferret that out and get to the bottom of that. >> you mentioned the judge is moving this along quickly. the judge wasn't taking nonsense. donald trump was talking and whispering and grimacing, and rolling his eyes, doing the things you would expect him to do when there's a potential juror sitting there. the judge said we're not going to have that. do you think we get to a point where he calls contempt in court or something like that. we know donald trump can't control himself. he believes any room he's in he's the most important person and can do whatever he wants.

the judge trying to set a different tone. >> interestingly, they caution trump in front of jurors instead of, you know, having the jurors leave the room and talking to him about it. i don't think this judge is dumb enough to put donald trump in jail for acting out in court because frankly, i think that's kind of what donald trump wants. i think he wants to try to be, you know, burnish up his victim hood in any way he can. that would be martyr type stuff. but i think it hurts trump in front of the jury to have a judge doing that. if he keeps cautioning him in front of the jury, that might be enough to get him to stop. i know his lawyers are telling him, this hurts you with the jury, forget about everything else. inside this courtroom, you don't want the jurors to see you as the big jerk that frankly, you kind of are. >> his demeanor will be on vivid display. there's an effort on the right

to draft a stealth juror. there's a lot of online chatter, charlie kirk pleading with new yorkers who are republicans to try to get on the jury to be the stealth juror that claire warns about. there's a lot of math working against that, mike, but it is a fear out there. let's get your sense of how the first two days have gone. and we should note the trial rests on wednesday. nothing is going to happen today. the speed and the control the judge seems to be having in the courtroom where donald trump is being put in his place like any other american. he's got to sit there. we talked earlier in the show about the physical toll it's clearly already having on him. he's not getting special treatment at least for now. >> the pace of the jury selection is surprisingly fast. the judge is clearly in control of the entire procedure and for donald trump, i mean, there's one place he doesn't want to be. there's one place you really don't want to be. you don't want to be a defendant in federal court with a judge who knows what he's doing and

and commands the court, you have no leeway. the surprising thing about this, the jury will be selected. there will be a trial. to me, the most interesting aspect is given the fact that he portrays himself as a victim all the time. has been for years doing that. the election was stolen. the judges are crooked. the biden crime machine is in charge of this. the justice department is hovering over everything that happens here. given all that he says on a daily basis, this victim, when given the opportunity to appear on the stand and explain his side of the story i bet he will not take the stand, his lawyers won't let him take the stand. what will be the reaction to that among his chosen people. >> in a preview of the what the next next six or seven months, donald trump in a courtroom, president biden in scranton, pennsylvania, campaigning, trying to win the pivotal state.

we are hours away from the start of the impeachment trial of homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. it comes as mike johnson space faces a new threat. nbc's capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles has more. >> reporter: a trial in the senate set to begin with house republicans formally sending over articles of impeachment against homeland security secretary, alejandro mayorkas. republicans accusing him of willfully refusing to comply with immigration laws with a record 9.3 million border crossings since president biden took office. mayorkas and democrats call the charges baseless. senate democrats poised to quickly dismiss them. all of it as drama builds back in the house with speaker mike johnson preparing to defy conservative house colleagues and call votes on a series of aid packages for ukraine, israel

and taiwan, this despite running the risk that conservatives may attempt to boot him from the speakership through what's called a motion to vacate. johnson defiant. >> it is an absurd motion that someone would bring a vacate motion when we are simply here trying to do our jobs. >> reporter: the same threat that allows a small number of republicans joining request democrats to take out former speaker kevin mccarthy last year. though only a small group of republicans seem open to another round of speaker drama, and some democrats have suggested this time they are willing to help save a republican speaker. >> have the ability to table that, to pour water, instead of gasoline, of course that's what i'm going to do. >> reporter: johnson's path to pass the foreign aid package is far from perfect. he wants to call separate votes. the bills would have to go back to the senate where there's no guarantee they would pass. >> ryan nobles reporting from capitol hill. and joining us now, democratic

member of the foreign relations committee, senator chris murphy of connecticut. good morning, good to have you with us. i want to go back to the impeachment articles now being brought to the senate against homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. even republicans, many of them, have expressed, well, frustration with the use of time by the house in pursuing these charges against alejandro mayorkas. the standard is high crimes and misdemeanors. doesn't mean there's not a crisis at the border. to many republicans, he should not be impeached for it. how does this go from here? how is this going to play out on the senate side? >> yesterday, the house managers walked to the senate, read the articles out loud. you know, this is a serious moment but it was hard to contain your laughter. i mean, these articles are absurd on your face, and when you hear them read out loud. it's pretty unbelievable. there's not a single high crime or misdemeanor alleged inside of

these articles. it's just a series of policy disagreements with this president, and of course it exposes what the real republican agenda is. the republicans see the crisis at the border as a political tool to exploit, and we have overwhelming evidence of that over the course of the last six months they have had an opportunity to fix the crisis at the border. we were able to develop a bipartisan bill in the senate, that would fix the crisisat the border. the house, instead of coming up with their own bipartisan proposal they moved forward with articles of impeachment that they knew were political on their face and dead in the senate. today we will likely debate those articles. there will be a motion to dismiss, and i expect there will be a bipartisan vote to dismiss the articles of impeachment. as you noted, there are multiple republicans senators who have said out loud that this is a total waste of time.

and that there's nothing in those articles that actually alleges a high crime or misdemeanor, anything impeachable. >> and, claire, that's part of the point here that senator murphy, along with republican senator james langford, republican independent senator kyrsten sinema of arizona got together and worked for months on bipartisan legislation that this house said it wanted. they rejected it and said they would impeach the homeland security secretary. kind of exposes their motives here. >> it was pretty obvious that months of hard work and frankly chris did amazing work here getting everyone on the same page for some tough border reforms, especially in the area of asylum, and some of the things that, chris, you put in that legislation. you know, i'd love you to just give us a view from your perch on foreign relations.

with the idea that we have gotten to the point, i thought it was rich listening to cruz talk about precedent and how we need to do things how we've always done them. we are now on the brink of losing a speaker because he has the nerve to allow members of the house to vote on aid to our allies in the midst of a war. that is, i think, probably without precedent in this country. speak to the view in the senate as to what is going on in terms of this essential aid to ukraine? >> so, remember, at the end of that whole process when we were trying to develop a bipartisan immigration reform proposal because republicans asked us to do that in order for them to vote for ukraine aid, the end of that process we had a 70-vote majority for ukraine aid in the senate. lots of republicans and

democrats voting in favor of that measure. we sent it to the house, and everybody knows that if speaker johnson brought up the senate bill for a vote in the house, which includes money for ukraine, money for israel, humanitarian funding, it would pass, and so i am glad that he is now contemplating a path forward to pass aid to ukraine. it is some rude goldberg ike scheme in which he's going to bring four different bills up and let those bills be amended and hope they all pass and send it back to the senate. he has a much easier path. the senate passed a bipartisan bill for israel, ukraine, and it is sitting in the house. democrats told him if you bring that up for a vote and if your handful of insane lunatics, tries to push a motion to vacate, we'll support you and keep you the in speaker's chair. democrats have never voted

against a motion to vacate. they told him. do the right thing, bring up the senate bill, and we'll maintain your speakership. i'm glad he has an alternate plan, it's better than nothing. and by the way, claire, as you know, ukraine can't wait. on a daily basis, they are firing 10%, 25%, the number of artillery shells at the russians as the russians are to them. kyiv will be a russian city by the end of the year, perhaps earlier if we don't get aid to them in the next few weeks. this is urgent. >> senator, you're right. dire reports by the state. and admiral kirby made that plain, again, from the podium yesterday. if this does forge forward, then of course we'll have to come back to the senate. you have made it clear, your preference is to have the senate bill be voted upon. if that's not reality, what are

some of the things you would have to negotiate for? what are some of the essentials you would need to see in the complicated package of bills? >> obviously at the heart of this is enough aid for ukraine to be able to fight through the end of the year and into next year. second, you know, i want aid to israel. we need humanitarian ailed. we need to lead the response to the crisis in gaza and also the crises unfolding in places like africa. we need in this bill $9 billion of humanitarian funding. that was the bipartisan number in the senate. and then i think a lot of us are just careful as to what is going to be or concerned about what is going to be added on to this bill. there's, you know, a conversation, for instance, that there are going to be new owners, immigration provisions added on. now, obviously i've been supportive of very tough new measures on the border.

i wrote those proposals until the senate bill, but i think all of us are going to be watching to see if there are, you know, immigration provisions, for instance, that just simply don't work that are added in a partisan basis to the security supplemental. i think we can pass that in the united states senate. if they only give us part of the senate proposal, don't pass humanitarian aid or if they add new partisan provisions to the senate bill, it gets tougher. >> democratic senator chris murphy, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. and still ahead on "morning joe," democratic congressman, ruben gallego will join us to talk about his bid for u.s. senate in arizona. plus, we are now 100 days away from the summer games. we'll have a live report from paris as the olympic flame makes

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160-year-old near total ban on abortion in the state. here's what she had to say about it during an appearance this week on "the kelly clarkson show." >> the old law in arizona is, you know, without exceptions. and, you know, as an aside, the man who wrote that law was married, i think, four times,

and one of his wives was 12. two of his wives were 15. i mean. >> so i'm glad we're getting advice from the upstanding citizen of the community. >> let's go back to that era. and you know, the danger to women's lives, as well as to our, you know, right to make our own decisions about our bodies and ourselves is so profound, and there's another element to it, which i find so troubling. there's a kind of cruelty to it. i mean, you know, no exceptions for rape, incest, i mean, really? i mean, what kind of world is that? >> and also i have been pregnant twice, hospitalized both times. i mean, literally, i asked god, this is a real thing, to take me and my son in the hospital the second time, because i was like it's the worst thing. i didn't know i would get emotional, sorry. >> it's okay. >> because you're speaking for so many.

you're speaking for literally millions of women in our country and around the world. >> it was just the worst -- >> and some guy sitting in a supreme court in arizona -- >> to make some woman go through it. it was my decision, and i'm so glad i did, i love my babies, but to make someone -- >> there's a cruelty toward women, toward women's lives. >> and you don't realize how hard it is. the fact that you would take that away from someone that can literally kill them, the fact if they're raped, by their family member, and they have to, like, it's just insane to me. >> that was incredible. >> it really was. >> the man who wrote that law to continue on what secretary clinton was saying was worse than the description she was giving, william claude jones reportedly abducted his 12-year-old bride, abandoned

another wife completely, and impregnated yet another when she was just 14. so he raped them. and impregnated them, and created a law that forced them to bear his children. >> you know, as i was watching that, willie, i was thinking about how i can't think of a day side host, extremely popular show, a general show, willie. >> daytime talk show. >> yeah, daytime talk show, willie, where they would bring up abortion and talk so passionately about it and watching that, it just really hit me again how mainstream this has become. this is not a left wing issue. this is not a women's issue. this is not a democratic issue.

this is an issue that we now see and this is great evidence of it, is mainstream. 60, 70% of americans going what are you doing? you can't risk a woman's life because you want to make some point, if you're a judge or if you're a state legislature. it's really incredible just how mainstream this issue has become since roe was overturned and the political earthquake it's caused. >> kari lake is running for the hills. >> kari lake is top of the list of scared of what she used to say. >> and this conversation has been pushed into the mainstream by of course dobbs, the overturning of roe v. wade almost two years ago now, and everything we have seen since. all of the fallout, and there's a reason that donald trump is twisted in knots when he talks about abortion, and won't answer whether he wants a national, a

federal abortion ban, when kari lake and others are twisted in knots talking about abortion. the dog, as you say, caught the car, and now doesn't know what to do with it and has seen what it means to have caught the car, for so many women across this country. what a beautiful moment for kelly clarkson to stop and speak that way on her own show with hillary clinton. joining us now, ruben gallego of arizona, a member of the house armed services committee, a marine corps combat veteran and now candidate for u.s. senate. congressman, thanks for being with us today. >> good morning. >> can you speak about the fallout just in the days since this ruling that an 1864 abortion law is enforceable, according to the supreme court in arizona. first and foremost, talk about the politics later, but what it means for women in the state of arizona. >> i mean, it's horrific. there's just no other way about it. women are scared.

and they should be. there is no exceptions to this law for rape or incest. it will jail doctors and nurses and anyone else that can be classified as providers. you know, they're scared. we suddenly are a state that has the most restrictive ban in the country, and then you have politicians that are, you know, all over the place, but largely for this, until, again, they caught the car as you said. >> claire. >> yeah, congressman, i first would like you to talk a little bit about kari lake and her, really, just outright lying about how she talked about this law as a great law, and she did so with great specificity. she actually said -- named the law by number and said it was a great law. and now of course she's doing that. so as somebody who fought for

this country and for the rights of americans, i'd love your take on her advice to people to strap on a glock in a political context and what that means to most arizonians? i just can't imagine that those independent voters that you're going to need, ones that don't necessarily call themselves democrats, is she going too far or does she have her finger on the pulse? >> first of all, it's not just independents. republicans in arizona, democrats, independents, they don't like the type of rhetoric. we have lived with this type of rhetoric. gabby giffords was shot with that same type of pistol. we don't need that, not post january 6th. this is who kari lake is. she will say anything, she will do anything for par. she thinks she can scare people, bully people. arizona is not that way. we're a state that does value each other. we're a state where

independents, democrats and republicans are friends, and for me, it's even, you know, it's very personal for me too. look, serving my country was the biggest honor in the world and i had to use any weapon to defend marines and other civilians. for her to use violence so flippantly, it shows you what type of person she is. it's a dangerous world out there. that type of rhetoric is not becoming of a leader, and arizonians will reject that. they have in the past, and they will again. >> congressman, the arizona supreme court with this ruling taking the country, taking the state of arizona back to 1864 is not the first step backward that the maga republican party has involved itself in. and there's a guy sitting this morning in new york state court, not this morning, but he's in new york state court on trial. the trial, though, that the people of arizona are having involves other elements of life.

they want to roll back obama care, to take that from people, as you go around the state campaigning, what issues, what issues pop up the most? immigration or abortion or just the general theme of losing things that they already have? >> look, abortion rights were the top of people's minds before the court case. now it is thermal nuclear. women and their families are concerned. politician like kari lake say you can drive three hours for an abortion if you need it. you have to drive three hours for medical procedures, sometimes life saving medical procedures. that's the attitude kari lake has about this. this is top of mind. immigration is up there, and we talk about this all the time, i visit the border, a lot. i've talked to border mayors, county sheriffs, things of that nature, all the time, and they're hopping mad that we could not pass a border bill. and i say, we, it was blocked by

the kari lakes of the world who decided to tell people to vote against it even before reading it. there's a lot of concern. there's no denying it, abortion is a concern of arizonians, women are worried, and when you have politicians like kari lack who will do anything, say anything to get power, and who has been very clear that she is for a total abortion ban. >> yeah, she's been very clear along the way, and this ban, this ruling, really impacts the health of women across the state of arizona. congressman, your campaign is out with a new ad challenging republican kari lake on her previous support for the state's near total abortion ban. let's take a look at it. >> the bottom line here is that arizona must adhere to an abortion ban. >> i don't believe in abortion. >> abortion is the ultimate sin. >> obviously i think roe v. wade should be overturned, and again,

we have a great law on the books right now. >> i believe it's ars 133603. it will prohibit abortion in arizona. >> it will be difficult for abortion clinics to survive and be open if abortion is illegal in arizona. >> so i guess my question to you is how do you -- i mean, you've laid out in the ad very much her way, which is very trumpy. just change on the issue andgo with it. a lot of people go along with it. how do you counter that in an age where there are different networks, putting out disinformation, and these candidates seem to have really no rules that they live by when it comes to the truth. >> arizonians aren't going to be fooled. they know who kari lake is. she is someone who will lie, has lied about almost everything regarding her positions on

abortion. she would do anything to gain power. we're going to use her own words multiple times so people see that. and look, we're going to do this face to face. we are traveling the state right now. we are going to the most republican areas o. state. we're going to some of the farthest areas of the state that haven't been reached, our tribal nations. she will tell you that you should driver three hours somewhere, which, by the way, in arizona, it's a big state, that doesn't get you far sometimes, to get, you know, life saving, you know, medical options. we're going to do this in a face-to-face, person-to-person, and she's going to have to defend herself. she's surrounding herself with maga extremists. when she gets out of her safe bubble, she's going to see that her abortion positions are not

trusted. she's going for an abortion ban and arizonians are going to push back on that. >> candidate for u.s. senate in arizona, congressman ruben gallego, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. coming up, we'll have an update on day two in donald trump's hush money trial, including the warning the judge gave the former president. "morning joe" is coming right back. oe" is coming right back

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wanted to change this course. >> that was former speech writer to presidents kennedy and

johnson, dick goodwin expressing his displeasure with the democratic party's nomination of hubert humphrey at the 1968 national convention in chicago. and joining us now is pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian and wife of the late dick goodwin, doris kearns goodwin, she's back today for the final day of her "morning joe" residency, to discuss her new book, "an unfinished love story," a personal history of the 1960s, as you can see, deeply personal to doris. >> and i want to remind about seven years from when the interview was taken in 1968 and talk about how dick saw jfk up close and saw how open minded he was to viewpoints not his own. >> we had a front row seat when

we went through the boxes to watching jfk grow as a candidate and a leader. one of the moments i loved watching with dick and thinking about from the boxes was that when he arrived at the university of michigan in october of 1960, he was simply going there to sleep, and he was going to have a whistle stop tour the next day, instead 10,000 kids were waiting for him. he figured, uh-oh, i better say something to them. he gave a three-minute speech, saying how many of you might be willing to go to ghana. how many of you might be willing to go to developing countries to help people abroad and a college should mean something more than an economic advantage. it should mean finding a sense of purpose. the kids were so inspired by those three minutes. he said it was the longest short speech, and finally he said, i'm just going to bed, they all clapped. they got a pledge together for a thousand kids to will willing to give up their two years, three years of life going abroad, and that was the birth of the peace

corps. it was the inspiration that was provided and the kids themselves did the job and the other moment i loved was at the inauguration, dick is at the parade, everybody is at that parade freezing because it's so cold and kennedy wouldn't wear a coat so nobody else could wear a coat. dick went in to inspect his digs in the west wing, and who was in there doing the same thing, john kennedy. and he said, did you remember the coast guard, and there wasn't a black face among them. we have to do something about it. dick was so excited. it was his first real job in the white house. he didn't even know where the coast guard was. turns out it was in the treasury. he called them up and started a process by which the first black person became a cadet in the coast guard, and a series of other symbolic acts were taken in the various parts of the federal government. i was able to interview the widow of meryl smith whose picture is now at the museum in

washington. it's great, fun stories. >> and also talk about his growth in office in good times, but especially in bad, after the bay of pigs disaster in every way, and everybody's pointing fingers at each other. we have seen many presidents try to find somebody to throw under the bus to blame, not jfk. >> you're so right, joe. i mean, that week after the bay of pigs fiasco was one of the hardest weeks. dick said he walked around the white house looking at jfk. he could see the pain on his face. jackie said he came into the mansion and put his head in his hands and we want. and that was not something that she had seen very often at all. there was a breakfast meeting to prepare him for the first press conference that he would do after the bay of pigs, and everybody was saying, oh, make it the state, make it the generals. call the cia responsible, and he said, no, i am the responsible officer, i'm taking this responsibility myself, and then

he made that famous statement, success has a thousand fathers, defeat is an orphan. and his public opinion polls went up, 83%, because he had taken responsibility and acknowledged errors. most importantly, he learned what was wrong with his decision making structure, and he changed it to bring in bobby kennedy, to make sure he didn't rely on experts as he had before, and that made it possible for the cuban missile crisis to be handled so much better than the bay of pigs, which was an important crisis. >> so how did dick manage to crack the relationship between sorenson and jfk and establish a relationship of his own with the president? >> it wasn't easy. sorenson was the speech writer and had been with john kennedy for such a long period of time, and they had a really deep friendship. sorenson mentored dick at the start. he learned from him how to do a kennedy speech, and i think what

really happened is one of the days they asked dick to do a speech on latin america because sorenson was doing a more important thing on something else. he wrote not only a speech but came up with a concept for the alliance for progress, a billion dollar program to give money to latin american companies if they have land redistribution and social reform, which meant dictators were losing power. which was a hard thing to do. jack kennedy loved that he had ideas on policy, not just simply on writing, and they went to latin america three times together. he didn't know any spanish. he had never been to a latin america country. when he wrote the speech, he put in spanish words. jfk said do i really have to say them, he practiced and practiced and never quite got them right. >> so many democrats look back fondly at the kennedy

administration, camelot and the glamour of it. talk about the way the president works and the white house worked that would be applicable today? what lessons could a president today or a future president learn from how jfk and his team made their decisions and led the country in an inspiring fashion in. >> i think one of the things that jfk did well and so did fdr, to reach people below the cabinet officers, like the desk officers, the people at the top were concerned about their own departments rather than what was good for the country as a whole. he called them up all of a sudden, or have them come over, and can fdr did the same thing. that's one of the things they did. most importantly, somehow kennedy inspired a sense. i was always the lbj girl, arguing with dick that lbj got everything done. he was arguing that kennedy won. he made the team feel they

wanted to come in early in the morning, they wanted to stay after midnight. there was a real camaraderie in the white house, and the white house is a house, and it becomes that. that was a certain moment when dick went too far with meeting with jay bavara and had to be banished not state department. he felt he had been banished from a place that was a real home where he could see people, eat in the mess together, and there was a camaraderie of that team. of course there were divisions. of course there were arguments. but they were young. i think that's what made a difference too. they're 28, 30, 32. he's only 42, and they felt a sense there was an excitement in the country, an air they were creating that people there was excitement in the country, and there was an air they were creating that they were creating and wanted to be in public service. there were a lot of people that wanted to go into public life, and that's what we need in the country is the sense that

politics can be at its best, something extraordinary, and we have a broken system and can use a little magic. >> yeah, the book, "an unfinished love story" is on sale now. doris kerns goodwin. >> thank you so much. take care, guys. ahead, the senate weighs articles of impeachment for mayorkas. dan goldman will be our guest, and josh shapiro, as president biden campaigns in his state. "morning joe" will be right back.

a boeing whistleblower will

testify today before congress after claiming one of the wildly flown airplanes can break apart because of a production flaw, and boeing denies that claim. tom costello has more. >> reporter: transporting 11 million passengers over the past 12 1/2 years, and today a boeing whistleblower will tell congress he's concerned the 787 dreamliner may have a dangerous flaw. >> right now to me i see we have a real problem in our hand. >> a 15-year boeing engineer says the gaps between the pieces of the fuselage are too big, and even though the fuselage pieces are fastened together, it could fatigue and break apart after thousands of flights. >> if the plane can break apart

and drop to the ground, i think that's a safety issue. >> that's what is at stake here? >> that's exactly what is at stake here. >> boeing saying we are fully confident in the 787 dreamliner because of the comprehensive work. these claims about the structural integrity of the 787 are inaccurate. since 2020, boeing has been under faa supervision, and stress testing the plane through 165,000 takeoffs and landings and more than three times a typical 787's life span, and out of the 1,100 planes in service, 689 have been through inspections and so far zero evidence of fatigue. >> these whistleblower's concerns, while sincere, i don't think matches what boeing says

is happening with the fleet. boeing says it does not tolerate retaliation. >> would you put your family on a 787 right now? >> i would not. >> boeing will be in a senate committee's crosshairs today after two fatal max 8 crashes oversees. >> if we have another crash, i am not sure if boeing can survive that or not. that's what i'm trying to prevent. >> he will testify today on capitol hill. tom costello reporting for us there. still ahead on "morning joe," the jury in donald trump's hush-money trial beginning to take shape now. we will go over the former president trump's second day in trial, including why the judge scolded trump's attorney for his

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it's called a legal expense. that's what you are supposed to call it. nobody has ever seen anything like it, so thank you very much for coming. i am now going to sit down for many hours -- >> i've said, donald trump looks at the world differently than you and me, and wakes up in the morning at mar-a-lago, how he can help himself, his wealthy friends gain control. listen to what he says. he says, quote, i will be dictator on day one. quote, i am your retribution. he promises, quote, a bloodbath, if he loses. this guy denies january 6th. listen, listen to what he says, because you know he means it. i wake every morning thinking

about how to make life better like you do for working class families across scranton and across the country, how the power rests with you and we the people. >> that's a look how the 2024 presidential campaign is likely to play out. donald trump ranting about the cases against him, and president biden is on the campaign trail taking the message to voters in key swing state. we will have more on that stark contrast. plus, the republican-led chaos continues on capitol hill. the threats to end johnson's speakership are growing as he prepares to bring multiple foreign aid bills to the house floor. we will bring you the latest drama on all that. good morning and welcome to

"morning joe." it's april 17th. we have jonathan lemire, and member of the "new york times" editorial board, maura gay, and we begin with seven jurors seated in the trump trial. the jury is anonymous, so their names were not used in open court. here's what we do know. the group so far is made up of four men and three women and include two attorneys, a salesman, an oncology nurse, an it consultant and software engineer. reporters in the court described trump as being more alert, at times looking intently at potential jurors as they answer

questions. john merchan believes the jury selection process will be completed this week, and advised the jurors to be ready for open arguments to be on monday morning. it went so smoothly that trump said he was rushing the trial. >> we think we have a judge rushing the trial. >> the process will resume tomorrow because the court is not in on wednesdays. >> george conway, the pace is a fairly quick clip. what are you seeing and expect? >> it is going faster than it seemed to at first. they started with a panel of 96 people, and i think the way that it was expedited, the way the

judge expedited it, he asked everybody up front, if you can't be impartial, raise your hand, eventually. that got rid of two-thirds of the veneer of the pool. they began to focus on the remaining 30 or so and he was just very efficient. there was a questionnaire and they made each person get into the box and answer the questions, yes or no, and explain if there were complicating factors and the judge would intervene if there was a question that came off that required a little ahraous tkaeugs. they managed to come up with six people, and then came up with more at the end of the day. it was all very efficiently done. i think it's going to speed up because each side gets -- each side gets ten preemtree

challenges, and both sides used six to strike jurors, and they have four left. there's a limit to what they can do. they need to pick 11 more jurors. five will sit on the panel of 12, and then there will be six alternates. that is a pretty good chance they can get this done by friday. >> yeah, it was slow going and then ramped up. george, you were in the overflow room at the courthouse yesterday, and you know at one point in the jury selection the judge gave donald trump and his attorney a warning about trump's behavior after one juror was talking about the facebook post, and the judge said your client was audibly uttering something,

i will not tolerate that. that was the judge talking to donald trump and his lawyer. we knew history onkwreubgz. how does that play and affect how that is playing inside the courtroom? >> it's great the judge is clamping down on that early, because his conduct in the courtroom is really -- it's very demonstrative and emotional at times. i actually don't think he has the complete ability to control himself. i think we saw that during the e. jean carroll trial, and i think it's important for the judge to give him warnings he can't do that to the jury. to the extent that he does that in front of the jury, it shows disrespect for the jury and doesn't help him, and that's one of the reasons why he was hit with the $83.3 million verdict during the second e. jean

carroll trial, because he sat in front of the jury and showed contempt for the entire process, and contempt for the jury that duck tailed nicely with what the other side was trying to prove, which is this is a bad guy. >> jonathan lemire, you understand his lack of discipline is legendary, and his ability to sit still, legendary. he wrote in "the art of the deal," basically that he didn't have the discipline to sit down and make plans for a day, and he just showed up in the office and answered phones and moved around. drudge puts it this way, don in hell, with a picture of him in the courtroom, and the fact that this guy has to sit in a courtroom six, seven, eight hours a day. >> oh, that's not good for him.

>> required to. it's something he's never done in his entire life. >> he has a legendary short attention span ricochetting from one thought to the next. he has been disciplined a handful of times in his life, the one time he was convinced to stay on twitter and mostly stayed on message at his rallies and that helped him win in the last few days, and that's the exception rather than the rule. he is indisciplined. i was speaking to somebody in trump world last night that did acknowledge that, the physical toll this is taking on trump already, and a couple times we have seen him close his eyes, potentially asleep. though he has been in courtrooms a lot this month, the appearances were brief, and he never had to be there for eight

or nine hours at a time. yes, he gets today off but he will be back tomorrow, friday, and monday, and there's some concern in trump world on the physical toll this will take on him. his campaign schedule has to be curtailed inherently, and will he be up for it? will he be able to in his free moments hit the road? his aides are talking about having more new york city events, and he's scheduled to have a rally in north carolina this weekend. the physical toll and the lack of money, the need to be in the courthouse, this could be a dramatically smaller campaign from trump than we are used to? >> yeah, and the lack of money preventing him from doing so much. there's a big difference between this time in the courtroom and pastimes. pastimes, most of the time they

were voluntary. here, a big difference between a voluntary appearance and an appearance where you are required to attend. i will just say, yeah, anybody sitting six, seven, eight hours -- you know me. if i was sitting somewhere for eight hours, i would be falling asleep. >> you can't even get through four. >> yeah, already doing four, and mika let's me talk all the time to stay awake. >> true. >> what a physical toll for anybody. >> this is where it also helps to have real firsthand knowledge of donald trump over the course of a decade, and the guy has no attention span. we have seen it up front. we have known people that worked for him, and they have to work around this sort of add mentality he has and the need for attention, constant attention. >> and being in charge.

he sets up every meeting and everything, and he's in charge here. as you were saying yesterday -- mika went through a scene from the courtroom and donald trump had to sit while they are going, okay, let's see here -- >> we could go to page 4a and look at clause b -- >> i don't think -- hey, we need different -- >> can you imagine donald trump sitting through that, and going crazy. >> going nuts. >> again, you put a lot of ceos on that list sitting there for six or seven hours, and the campaign is right, and jonathan lemire, that could take a toll. >> yeah, the situation of not having control. there's the other side of this, and the concerns some might

have -- many might have, about the gag order being broken, sort of broken already many times, and peoples' lives being put in danger because of what he says about them, but number two, ginning up anger. he walks outside the courthouse and gives speeches and we don't take them at this point unless he says something of newsworthiness, and then he goes to a bodega, and fox news and other far right networks there as campaign events, and there's something to be said for what he could do with this. your thoughts? >> that's a concern. the judge recognized that concern in admonishing him and saying i'm not going to have mumblings in my courtroom that

could intimidate the jurors, and it's an ongoing concern, because he's like a caged animal, and that's a dangerous situation. he's feeling very threatened and out of control, so we expect him to lash out. anybody who has covered him over the past decade can expect that. one of the things that i actually find reassuring about the past couple of days is houman dane and ordinary this trial looks. i was actually called for jury duty in new york city last year and it was much of the same kind of process in a criminal trial. at the end of the day i was not serving, mostly because of the work that we do here, but, you know, it is reassuring that donald trump is no different than anybody else who would be called in this kind of a trial. you know who else is having to sit there for eight or nine

hours a day? these jurors, whose lives have been interrupted. that's part of the democratic process. it's playing out so far exactly as it should, which isn't supposed to be fixated on some outcome, but on a fair trial and free democracy that would be no different than anybody else. i think that does give a little gravitas to this case that has been seen as not as serious as other trials, but the reality is -- i have covered trials here in new york, and anybody who may have committed a crime should be held accountable for the crime, and i hope it's encouraging americans and voters that our system still works, even for a former president. >> coming up, growing momentum among republicans to oust

speaker johnson, and could it be democrats to help him keep his leadership post? that's next on "morning joe." g . - so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right?

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why are force factor vitamins so popular at walmart? force factor uses the highest quality ingredients to deliver powerful, healthy results from delicious and convenient supplements. that's why friends and family recommend force factor. rush to walmart and unleash your potential with force factor. house speaker johnson says he plans to bring the gop-led foreign aid package to the floor by the end of the week. the four bills that include aid for ukraine, israel, taiwan and endo pacific allies are garnering some support but things are still fluid to put it mildly. far right conservatives opposed out right opposition to the

measures, and some are angry it doesn't address the southern border. johnson's saving grace could be the democrats, and he spoke to president biden and democrats that appear to incline to support the package as no republican poison pills are included. >> there's no option off the table right now from procedural measures that bring this directly to the floor to any of the options, and if it delivers, as the vice chair said, if it delivers the four points we are concerned about it should be something on the table. >> speaker johnson's push to move forward could cost him his job. thomas massey announced his support for marjorie taylor greene's effort to oust the speaker. meanwhile on the other side of the aisle, some democrats including moskowitz of florida

say they will try to stop the ouster to keep order in the chamber. this is the speaker's thoughts -- >> i asked him to resign. >> what did he say? >> he said he would not. he said you will put us into this. the motion is going to get called, and -- does anybody doubt that? the motion will be called, and he will lose more votes than kevin mccarthy, and i told him this in private weeks ago. >> i am not resigning, and it's in my view, an absurd notion when somebody would bring a vacate motion when we are simply here trying to do our jobs. we need steady leadership, and we need steady hands at the wheel. i regard myself as a wartime speaker. this is the hardest challenge that has faced a speaker in the history of the country, the moment we are in right now, and

arguably maybe comparable to the civil war but maybe worse. >> maybe worse. joe and mika, it's thomas massey and marjorie taylor greene saying it out loud with the motion to vacate, but there are other republicans unhappy, and they don't want aid going to the ukraine and want something done at the southern border, and the bipartisan package on the border, they had what they asked for and when it came to their desk, they didn't want it. >> because donald trump told them not to do it. >> right. >> and by the way, for the speaker, i am glad he's doing what he's doing now, and for the speaker, he doesn't have to go back to the civil war to a time when a speaker faced a worse situation than he's facing now. all he has to do is go back to january 6th, 2021. what happened after he was

running around the house floor, trying to get liz cheney and everybody else to overthrow the results of the election, which, of course, what he was doing, what paxton was doing, what trump was doing, what all these people were doing led to to a riot, and the greatest challenge of what was going in that capitol dome since the civil war. it was crazy. by the way, these guys that go, i'm going to take down the speaker, 1 of 435. you are 1 of 435. mika, as you were saying yesterday, democrats may be saying, hold our beer. >> yeah, they might. joining us now, investigative reporter for "the washington post," jackie, who are these democrats? how might they save the day for

the speaker? >> yeah, mika, this is the months' long culmination of a struggle bust to get this funding that is considered more critical than ever by growing cohorts of both parties to get through. the question is whether or not speaker johnson is ultimately going to have the courage today to actually introduce the text of this four-part 95-billion aid package and whether or not democrats are going to step up to the plate like they increasingly have been saying they are going to, to help mike johnson get through and navigate the hard-line gop conservatives that essentially want to blow everything up and that take mike johnson's away from him, and forcing a new speaker's fight for the second time in the past six months. these democrats are realists, essentially. some of these more centrist --

even further than that, people who at this point, people like dan goldman, and people that just want to see their workplace function in a time when our foreign allies are desperately waiting on us, and waiting for our support, as speaker johnson said yesterday. he considers himself a war-time speaker at this time, and i think that's what is driving his desire to get this on the floor. despite his personal opposition to funding ukraine. >> what's so fascinating, jonathan lemire, is if these bills do, in fact, go out one by one, you will have aid to israel. i think a lot of democrats, progressive democrats that have traditionally been more palestinian than most mainstream politicians in washington, d.c. will vote against that aid, but the overwhelming amount of republicans will vote for it. then you have ukraine aid. you have a lot of pro putin, pro

russia, pro trump republicans that are in the back benches of the house that will vote against it, and you have democrats voting for it, and so you will have these cross currents that made lead to the passage of aid for israel and ukraine, and, of course, taiwan. >> yeah, unlikely coalitions. you are right, there could be progressive anger for israel and reluctance, and i think many will stick with their votes because of the anger of what is happening in gaza. and it's a small number of republicans that oppose it, the aid for ukraine, and the white house opposed the measure to separate the bills. they fear that ukraine will fall by the wayside if that does not

occur. they want johnson to bring the senate bill to the floor. jackie, you used the phrase, struggle bus, and that's precisely what this is now. >> i am running out of duh scripters. >> you nailed it. we liked it here at the table. and then talk about speaker johnson and the effort to oust his power, and if democrats come to his aid, doesn't that politically wound him? walk us through what that would look like. the other alternative is, if he is ousted or walks away from this, what happens to the house of representatives? who's in charge? >> these are really difficult scenarios to play out, and i think that some of the republican dysfunction that we have seen has overshadowed some of the growing chasms and

fractures in the democratic party, and that said johnson will have a hard time doing his job relying on the democrats, and that's his red asupbs. how will he fundraise for the republican party on capitol hill, and that being said, there are really not many alternatives here, and even hard-line conservatives, like marjorie taylor greene and thomas massey, and these are people angering their own colleagues and people that consider themselves their own allies. there's not a lot of backup plans here. i think at the end of the day, johnson can say that he is months before an important

november election, trying to maintain the majority for republicans and trying to run a functioning congress that is not as historically unproductive and effective as the last congress was. >> you know, willie, it seems to me, it seems to anybody paying close attention, even some of the hardcore republicans, no, enough, we are not going to do this. after massey stepped out, jim jordan told reporters, no, we do not want to go there again. and other republicans saying this is the last thing we need to do and the first thing democrats want us to do is to look more chaotic. >> where is the end of this? if you get rid of mike johnson, who comes next?

you go through it all over again. you have a group of republicans who are now just saying the thing out loud as president biden pushes for foreign aid to support allies in need, congressman garrett graves said this. >> the reality is, you have to keep in mind, president biden asked for ukraine, president biden asked for israel, president biden asked for taiwan and president biden supports the changes to tiktok. what are republicans getting out of this? >> so george conway, that's the question congressman graves is asking, what is in it for us? they are talking about aid to ukraine, and they don't think they get anything out of the united states in fulfilling an obligation to an ally. >> they ought to be getting the ability to help the united states and its allies out of this, but they don't care, and they are a denialistic bunch

that want to obstruct everything for political purposes. i don't particularly like speaker johnson, but i think he has to do the right thing by the country, and that's the right thing by himself, and he needs to do a deal with the democrats to table a motion to vacate and put this stuff on the floor getting it through, one way or the other, whether it's four bills or one. that will hurt speaker johnson in some ways. it will at least survive to fight another day. it's in the best interest of the country, and he knows that and most republicans, i think, know that, and democrats know that and there's no reason why a nut job minority of a handful of members should be allowed to block legislation in the best interest of the united states of america. >> these arguments, what does it do for the united states of america? it's always been shortsighted.

donald trump, what does nato do for america? >> this time he's asking what it does for the republicans. >> in post world war ii, what have all of these international organizations done? it allowed the united states to grow, be the most powerful military and most power powerful -- you name, most powerful in the world, and not invading countries in the heart of europe, that's good for the united states. just to be very direct, jonathan, this investment continues to destroy what is the second strongest military in the world, and that is -- as poorly as they have fought, that's the russian military right now. you look at the number of men

that have been taken off the battlefield for the russians. you look at the fact that, i think, one-third of their tanks, military vehicles have been destroyed, and not a single american has died, and yet they lost tens of billions of dollars of military equipment in russia, and their military power has been compromised to a degree that it will take them a generation to recover. what do republicans get out of it? it's good for america. i don't know, maybe they should be concerned about what is good for america instead of what is good for vladimir putin. again, i still keep going back to what the head of the intel committee and the republican head of the intel committee and the republican head of the foreign affairs committee said, which is, a lot of republicans in our own congress swallowed whole and are spitting out

putin's propaganda. >> yeah, because they think that's what donald trump wants as the leader of their party. and i won't repeat what you just said, but the russian military has a little momentum in ukraine, and on the whole it's badly degraded because the u.s. has funded -- with the help of the u.n. allies -- was able to damage the russian military, and a lot of this is going to american companies, and there's an economic benefit for the funding. it's not going to drop into kyiv, and it's going to go to the united states in supplying ukraine, and that's a talking point they should give to their

constituents. let's talk about the big picture here as the world watches, and with great unease about how the united states can't be counted upon like it used to be. the dysfunction in the house of representatives where we might lose a speaker or the speaker might be paralyzed. it's not a done deal the bills will get through, and if they don't and the u.s. fails to meet its commitment to ukraine, what does that say to the rest of the world, especially with another trump presidency looming. >> lots of europeans, some of whom are friends of mine, are deeply concerned and that's not just in europe. that's an ongoing concern, the uncertainty of what would happen if trump returns to the white house is something leaders around the world, democratic and not are watching, and enemies are also watching and champing

at the bit to see this kind of uncertainty and unrest. going back to the reason for this shifting policy is almost more disturbing, and it's not as though there's some coalition of new thinking about what is best for america in foreign policy. what's actually happening is what we just witnessed is a cohort of republicans in power in the house saying, well, what is best for republicans? not what is best for america. i guess i wonder at this moment if they are going to pay any political price for that? is this something the biden campaign can splice and turn into an ad, or is this just washington insider baseball? i don't know. i don't think there are a lot of americans that would appreciate this kind of dysfunction at the cost of u.s. foreign policy. >> coming up, we will be joined by governor josh shapiro as

president biden makes a swing through his state. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ [coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets.

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ arizona republican senate candidate, kari lake, suggested to reporters they might want to arm themselves in the run up to the fall election -- to supporters, i should say, and made those comments at a campaign rally on sunday. >> the next six months will be intense, and we need to strap on

our -- let's see, what do we want to strap on? we want to strap on our seat belt, and we are going to put on our helmet or kari lake ball cap, and we are going to put on the armor of god. and maybe a strap a glock on the side of us just in case. you can put one here and one in the back or one in the front, whatever you guys decide, because we are not going to be the victims of crime and not going to have our second amendment taken away and certainly not going to have our first amendment taken away. >> she said she wanted to put on a seat belt and the armor of god and a glock on her hip and then got into comments about the second amendment.

and then there was another congressman, tom cotton, telling people to take matters into their own hands against demonstrators and confront them with the use of physical force, and there's senator cotton doubling down on that stance to nbc news. >> vigilantes are blocking the streets when moms are trying to get kids to school or people are trying to get to the hospital or get to work, should be removed from the streets? yes, i posted that and i would do it myself if in that situation. >> you said people should take matter into their own hands, and could you clarify that. >> it calls getting out of your car and physically removing pro hamas protesters blocking the street. >> he maintains he's not calling for violence against the protesters, but did show a group

of men dragging protesters off the road with the caption, this is how it should be done. he said not to use violence against the protesters, and we talked about how annoying it is and an ineffective way to get people to understand, and -- >> yeah, things make us angry when idiots go out and protest by blocking roads and that blocks kids from going to school or maybe taking somebody to the hospital, and it's dangerous. anybody that does that, i am against your cause. you know, i think that's how

most motorist think, and he was talking about throwing people off the golden gate bridge. this happened on the golden gate bridge, and we will throw them over the bridge, and so again, you have -- you have him talking about violence. you think, why is a politician thinking that's the road to popularity. kari lake talks about the armor of god and carrying a glock. for some reason, with that audience, carrying a glock gets a bigger cheer than putting on the armor of god. in most audiences, armor of god would be doing better than strapping on a glock, because people would say, what is wrong with him? the audience cheering for that, you know, reminds me of donald

trump and audiences gleefully talking about a man in his 80s being awakened from sleep and nearly being bludgeoned to death by a hammer. they still celebrate. i say they, not just donald trump, and you say how sick donald trump is, da, da, but the audience is cheering that a man in his 80s gets bludgeoned almost to death by a guy that went in screaming the maga chant, where's nancy? where's nancy? again, it's the glorification of violence, and the big question is why does this glorification of violence sell so well in donald trump's republican party.

it's -- it's -- it's sick and sad and un-american. coming up, one of our next guests says americans are setting a dangerous precedent in their effort to impeach secretary alejandro mayorkas. "morning joe" is back in a moment. nt -dad, what's with your toenail? -oh, that...? i'm not sure... -it's a nail fungus infection. -...that's gross! -it's nothing, really... -it's contagious. you can even spread it to other people. -mom, come here!

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heroes, malcolm x. >> we want freedom by any means necessary. we want justice by any means necessary. we want equality by any means necessary. we don't feel that in 1964 living in a country that is supposedly based upon freedom and supposedly the leader of the free world, we don't think that we should have to sit around and wait for some segregationist congressman and senators and a president from texas in washington, d.c. to make up their -- to make up their minds that our people are due now some degree of civil rights. no, we want it now or we don't think anybody should have it.

>> so very prescient in these times. mara gay, if you care about democracy you cannot sit back during these times we are in right now. >> wow, i mean, watching malcolm x it's captivating, but, you know, i had the pleasure of reading eddie's book and actually interviewing him about it the other day at a local bookstore here in new york city. one of the things that i really love about the book is it talks about the other tradition of black american activism and democracy, democratizationdemoc which is much more about grassroots change versus just a focus on leaders and allowing them to kind of do the bidding of others. and so, you know, really the woman who i'm thinking of this morning, i'm actually not thinking of malcolm x, i'm thinking of ella baker who founded the student arm of the movement known as sic. she said famously strong people don't need strong leaders,

right? and so eddie's book really gets at that. i just wanted to know, eddie, if you could talk a little bit for us about the role of black politics in this time of trumpism. what do americans need to know about its contribution to democracy? >> well, i think it's really important for us to understand that every day ordinary folk no matter what community you are in, that we need to take responsibility for our democracy, and that means we need to engage in the political process, this election, very, very directly. we need to turn out in massive numbers and we need to hold each other accountable for in some ways making a new america possible. so what i'm trying to do in this book is get my way -- make my way to that insight, right? from a different kind of pathway. and that is through my own kind of effort to find my own political voice in some way. coming up, the countdown is on to the summer olympics now just 100 days away. nbc's keir simmons joins us live

from paris with a look at how preparations are going. we will be right back. t how preparations are going we will be right back. nothing comes close to this place in the morning. i'm so glad i can still come here.

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jury selection continued today. seven jurors have now been picked, they need 12 jurors and six alternates. both side have been working to whittle out anyone who might be biased in the other one's direction. one potential juror was an older man who said she believes no one is above the law and trump's lawyers were like get her out of here right now. >> anticipating a long process new york has sent out over 6,000 summonses, around 2,000 more

than average. at that rate they're going to burn through every available new yorker. by the end the jury will include a times square buzz light year, 40 rats in a tremplg coat and lin-manuel miranda. well cot to the fourth hear of "morning joe," it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east. jonathan lemire and mike barnicle still with us. joining the conversation we have nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann and former senior aide to both the biden and clinton campaigns adrienne elrod is with us this morning. jury selection will resume tomorrow in donald trump's criminal hush money trial after a packed day in court yesterday. the judge is now signaling that opening arguments could start on monday. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has more. >> reporter: seven people now officially sworn in as jurors to hear the people of the state of

new york versus donald j. trump. a cross section of manhattan residents openly revealing their views of the likely gop nominee as mr. trump sat in court listening to lawyers spar over who could be fair and impartial. >> everything is screwed up in new york and the whole world is watching. >> reporter: roughly two dozen prospective jurors eventually whittled down to the foreman a 28-year-old in sales, originally from ireland, two attorneys, an oncology nurse, an i.t. consultant, a teacher and software engineer. those jurors getting only a short preview of the charges there trump has pled not guilty to for falsifying business records in an effort, prosecutors say, to bury evidence of a pay out to an adult film actress on the eve of the 2016 election. something mr. trump has repeatedly denied. the final panel of 12 jurors and 6 alternates will stay

anonymous. one man who wrote, quote, lock him up on facebook removed by the judge for cause. others expressing support for the former president, the often tedious nature of the jury selection process turning into almost an impromptu focus group. one woman saying he stirs the pot. one man revealing he was a big man of "the apprentice" in middle school. a former corrections officer saying he kind of enjoys the way mr. trump walks into a room. one of the excused jurors finding the process surreal. >> you get the sense that it's like, oh, this is just another guy and also he sees me talking about him, which is bizarre. >> reporter: but day two of trial was also marked by a flash of anger from the judge, appearing disturbed by something inaudible mr. trump apparently muttered as a juror was questioned about facebook posts. scolding the former president, i will not have any jurors intimidated in this courtroom.

>> laura jarrett reporting for us. donald trump being treated like every other defendant in the court system. he spent the day in court, meanwhile, president biden out on the campaign trail taking his message to voters in a key swing state. the president traveling to pittsburgh today as part of a three-day swing in pennsylvania. in scranton yesterday the president slammed former president trump's alleged tax plan should he return to office. >> tax break that he passed several years ago is about to expire, but trump wants to give another billionaire tax break. listen to what he says. trump says his maga friends want to, quote, terminate -- i love his terminology -- terminate the affordable care act. the affordable care act is paid for by a surtax on the very wealthy investment income. trump wants to get rid of that and as a consequence would cost millions of americans who lose coverage an average of an

additional $6,000 a year to maintain their health care. it would mean billionaires would get as a consequence of not having to pay the tax another $3.5 million tax kurt per billionaire. you heard me right. billionaires would each get an additional tax cut every year of $3.5 million. that's 70 times what a typical family here in scranton makes in one year. >> president biden in his hometown of scranton there yesterday. so, john heilemann, we had a split screen that we're going to see a lot more of this year when you game out what this campaign is going to look like over the next six or seven months. donald trump sitting for the most part quietly in some ways powerless inside a courtroom and joe biden the president of the united states out on the trail talking about the election ahead. >> yeah, willie, it's pretty striking split screen and it's one, you know, i don't think on the basis of what we've seen so far, and we are only a few days

in here, it's one that i don't think that former president trump is enjoying very much at this juncture. there is clearly a lot of kind of simmering frustration on his part. he's not -- he clearly is not a happy man. no one who is being brought up on a criminal charge and sitting in front of soon a jury of his peers is going to be happy about it, but i think this starts to get at a pretty fundamental thing which is we've talked a lot over the last months about whether this case is the -- you know, i put quote marks around, the right case to start with. is this the sequence we would have wanted? would we rather had -- would it be preferable on the insurrection charges rather than these charges. there's been a powerful, i think, kind of take away, still one more day to go this week if i'm right, they still have today to get through, but there's been a powerful effect this week of kind of seeing that in some sense it kind of -- in terms of

the images you are talking b the kind of impact they have politically and the kind of impact they have on trump's psyche, it kind of doesn't matter which of the cases is the one he's being brought up on. it is an extraordinary thing to see what's happening to him and i think he gets it at some visceral level just how bad it is to be in the situation that he's in right now and just how bad it's going to be for many weeks to come. >> yeah. the visit by the way to pennsylvania by biden comes as the campaign this morning is launching a new six-figure, five-day ad blitz there. >> i'm a proud steelworker just like my parents and my son. the american worker built this country to be the greatest country that we have to live in. we listened to four years of donald trump talking about infrastructure because it was a lot of lip service with the previous administration. joe biden delivered on t i see jobs coming to the area, i see infrastructure being fixed up. i see those policies working.

we can strengthen our workforce in this country. that's what joe biden has done. you tell me an investment that the previous administration made that is even close to what joe biden has done. donald trump has shown through his history that workers mean nothing to him. right now we have the most pro-american worker president in office that we have ever had in this country's history. donald trump cares about one person and one person only and that's donald trump. we need somebody that's going to effectively lead and do what's necessary for this country and that's joe biden. >> i'm joe biden, and i approved this message. >> joining us now democratic governor of pennsylvania josh shapiro, he is a member of the biden/harris campaign's national advisory board so i can ask you campaign questions. good to have you on board this morning. how does the biden campaign, especially in the important state of pennsylvania, confront the disinformation and the

threat of trump and the trump campaign, their tactics? >> i think doing exactly what the president did yesterday and what he's doing today in pennsylvania and what he's going to do tomorrow in pennsylvania. and that is take the fight directly to donald trump and show the clear contrast. you spoke a moment ago before i came on the air about donald trump sitting in a courtroom and joe biden being back in his hometown of scranton, the place that shaped his values, the place that really, i think, shapes his focus as president, fighting for the middle class, where donald trump is focused on one thing and one thing only, himself, as he always has been. so i think just continuing to show that clear contrast, bringing the fight directly to the former president and showing the good people of pennsylvania and all across this country the clear contrast in this race. the way president biden is focused on helping lift up the middle class, not screw over the middle class the way donald

trump has. the way president biden has focused on expanding real freedom and protecting a woman's right to choose, not ripping it away and creating chaos the way donald trump has. so i think just prosecuting the case against donald trump and showing that clear contrast. >> so, governor, tell me, what does joe biden need to do all across the country, but especially in pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin, to bring working voters back to the democratic party? there is a lot of working voters, as you know, that have backed donald trump. a lot of people who didn't benefit from his economic policies, who didn't benefit from the largest tax cut ever for billionaires and multinational corporations, didn't support union workers and yet many of them still voting for donald trump. how does joe biden reach those voters and let them know that a vote for joe biden is better for

their economic future? >> well, look, let's not forget joe biden won the presidency last night and he won pennsylvania and he won union households. president biden is going to be in a union hall in pittsburgh today in a steelworkers hall. he's very comfortable there. he's very comfortable around the folks who work as steelworkers, the folks who work in our building trades across pennsylvania. he's been there for them. his policies have lifted them up, whereas donald trump's policies have held them back. i think all joe biden needs to do is get out and tout his record. make sure that people know about it. that's part of my responsibility as governor of pennsylvania and others who are trying to support and lift up the president. he's got a strong record of achievement for our workers. the infrastructure resources he's put forth are going to keep our building trades here in pennsylvania busy for more than a decade. there are children in pittsburgh where he's going to be today who are drinking water that doesn't have lead in it anymore because

the president made sure that the water lines that connected to their homes were replaced and no longer is there lead in their drinking water. we've got 276,000 pennsylvanians -- pennsylvania homes and businesses that don't have access to high-speed internet. that's changing under president biden and it's the building trades and other workers who are going to lay that fiber and put up those towers to connect people to the internet so folks can start a small business or consult with their doctor, you name it. this is real tangible stuff. the president has a great record to run on and now he's got to go run on it and make the clear contrast with donald trump who is routinely throughout his career in the private sector and as president screwed over workers here in pennsylvania and across this country. >> so, governor, let me ask you something in your position as governor and have you respond to it. we and other people predicted for the 2020 election that if

pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin didn't count early votes until after the election day, if they didn't do it like florida, which a slue of republican governors all in a row have all supported florida counting early votes early, so on election night you know within an hour or two who won the state of florida. i know that can't happen in wisconsin, last night democrats in michigan regained control of the state legislature, so they can do it there. i know it's a little tougher in pennsylvania, but is there any hope that pennsylvania and michigan can do what florida and so many other states do? you count the early votes early and that takes the wind out of donald trump's sails when it comes to lying about rigged elections. we will know on election night who won pennsylvania, who won florida, who won michigan. can you do that in pennsylvania? >> yeah, you're highlighting a

really important issue. it's known as pre canvassing. the ability to, you know, pre canvas, pre sort and literally slide the ballots through a machine so that you can get those tallies right after the polls close, which is 8:00 p.m. here in pennsylvania. let me just say i think the clerks who are doing that work, republican and democrat alike, they are our neighbors all across pennsylvania, they're doing a hell of a job, but they're doing it kind of with one arm tied behind their back. let me explain why. precanvas is something that is supported by republican and democratic county officials, the people that run our elections. it's supported by my secretary of state, the great al schmidt, himself a republican who oversees our elections. it should easily and overwhelmingly pass in the legislature if it came up for a vote, but the reason it hasn't is donald trump told the republican leaders in our state senate don't run that precanvas

bill. don't do any of that. and the reason is he wants the chaos. we've seen that. he is a guy who loves to inject chaos into everything, into our elections, into our tax code, into, you know, the policies that harm working folks every single day, and unfortunately we still have some republican leaders here in pennsylvania who take their cues not from the people or even their local republican elected officials, but they take their cues from donald trump and we see more chaos. so i think it's going to be hard to change that here in pennsylvania this year, but the good news is we've got county officials, republican and democrat alike, who are going to do the right thing, who are going to process these ballots as quickly as possible and hopefully we will know soon. the bottom line here is that in 2020 notwithstanding any of the bs trump or his offspring or enablers said, we had a free and fair, safe and secure election and joe biden won by over 80,000 votes. by the way, some republicans won

on those ballots as well. the will of the people was respected and we're going to do the same thing here in pennsylvania again this year. >> it's a shame it can't get through the legislature when i think almost everybody except perhaps donald trump agrees would make this process even more secure, at least not give him that space in those days after the election to start fanning the flames of conspiracy theories. >> yes. >> i want to ask you what you share with president biden before he comes to pennsylvania. i mean you're out there, you live in the state, talking to voters, getting emails, letters, calls, all the time about what really concerns voters in a state so crucial like yours. if you want to get more specific, even in the suburbs, swing voters around pittsburgh and philly. is it inflation, which ticked up again in the last report? is it the border? is it abortion? what do you hear the most from concerned voters in your states because those are the issues that will swing the presidential election as well?

>> look, i think all of those issues are on people's minds and the president knows that, he doesn't need me to tell him that. i think in particular in the wake of what happened in arizona and going back to literally a lincoln-era law on abortion effectively banning abortion in that state, and we've seen chaos in other states as a result of donald trump trying to overturn -- successfully overturning roe v. wade. i think that level of chaos and taking away people's freedom is certainly on folks minds and certainly something people are worried about, and i'm pleased that the president wants to codify roe and provide more freedom to millions of women in pennsylvania and all across this country. i think that's critical. i think the economic policies that the president was speaking about yesterday, how we're going to lift up the middle class, how we're going to make sure that we cut costs for them. look, that's something we've done here in pennsylvania. i was proud that we cut taxes for seniors, the first time in nearly two decades.

we had the largest expansion of the child care tax credit ever here in pennsylvania. we brought republicans and democrats together to get that done. we cut business taxes. we put money back in the pockets of the middle class. i think we're showing here in pennsylvania how to do that and i think the president's policies certainly support that and contribute to that and i think all of those things are on people's minds. the president has a strong record to run on and now we have to go out and not only make the positive case on what he's accomplished and what he wants to do, but prosecute the case against donald trump the way he's taken away our freedoms and injected more chaos in our lives. >> all right. pennsylvania governor josh shapiro, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. adriene, let me ask you about what the governor was talking about, what, i think, concerns all of us who don't want liars to undermine american democracy

and that is doing what florida does. and i say florida because this is not some left-wing idea, this is an idea that ron desantis supports, that rick scott supported, that jeb bush supported, that an overwhelmingly republican florida legislature supports. by 9:00 on most election nights we know who won the state of florida. >> yep. >> just like that, there's no -- liars like donald trump can't go out and lie about, oh, close things down. no, because he will know whether he won or lost by 9:00, 10:00. >> yeah. >> pennsylvania, i don't understand why they can't do it in pennsylvania other than a republican senate and donald trump stopping that. let's talk about the state of michigan. why didn't gretchen whitmer, secretary of state, and now that democrats control as of last night the full government there, why shouldn't -- shouldn't

michigan do early voting, early counting? i mean, maybe they already have. >> yeah. >> but how important is that? >> yeah, i recall having many conversations with the two of you between election day itself and when the race was actually called in 2020 for president biden, which i think was about three and a half to four days later after -- after election day. and that of course to your point, joe, really gave donald trump time to kind of say the election was rigged even though of course it wasn't. you know, the biden campaign, which i was proudly a part of, we made it very clear that every vote has to be counted and that we need to make sure that every vote is counted before those states are called. but, you know, the point you are talking about here is oftentimes when you're watching the results come in on election night that first tabulation when 2% of a state is in is usually the early vote and that number teens ticking up and that usually comes in pretty quickly, but sometimes the absentee, sometimes the provisional ballots it takes a little bit longer and it is frustrating because if you have an absentee ballot that you sent in two and

a half, three weeks before the election, you would hope that maybe that would be counted pretty quickly. so it is something that obviously as governor shapiro said he's focused on, other governors are focused on that as well, both democrats and republicans, but it sure would make it a lot easier if we could have as many votes that have been cast before election day itself, early votes, absentees, have those counted going into election day itself. >> it's pretty simple. >> we would know by election night. >> yeah. >> i mean, you look at arizona and nevada, they seem to count two or three votes a day. i mean, they are the slowest vote counters when they should be counting it all before the election, just like, again, ron desantis' state of florida does, so this isn't a left-wing idea, i think it's a pretty conservative idea. >> just a practical idea. >> you get it in, you look at it, count it and you have the tallies. >> no ambiguity. >> no ambiguity. donald trump the reason he doesn't like it --

>> he likes to live in ambiguity. >> he knows that he's going to do well day of. he will do well day of. so the first votes that come in will be supportive of him. if you don't count it beforehand. and then he has three days, a week, two weeks, three weeks to lie and build this -- it is so important, again, i hope michigan is already on its way to doing this because if michigan like florida, pennsylvania -- >> yeah. >> -- could do it early, we would know who the next president was going to be by 10:00. >> important point. we're going to move now to the impeachment trial of homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. it's set to begin later today. the articles were delivered to the senate yesterday after a two-month delay. republicans are accusing secretary mayorkas of willfully refusing to enforce border laws and breaching the public trust. >> wait, are these -- wait, are these the same -- >> accusing him of that.

>> -- republicans that killed the toughest border security bill in history? >> correct. >> are those the same republicans that -- that's unbelievable. >> yeah. republicans did not accuse mayorkas of any specific criminal conduct. joining us now democratic member of the house homeland security and oversight committees, congressman dan goldman of new york. his latest op-ed is entitled "my republican colleagues are wasting the senate's time." so what do you suggest should happen moving forward here if there isn't anything specific being put on the table as an impeachment crime committed by the secretary? it seems like almost a vacant exercise. >> yeah, that's right. i mean, if this were in a criminal court setting, this would be an indictment that would be dismissed before trial because it does not state a crime, and you nailed it on its head there, mika, the fact is

that even if you agree with what is alleged in the articles of impeachment for which there's no evidence to support, you still have not alleged a high crime or misdemeanor. you have not shown at all any personal benefit that the secretary has derived from any of his actions. and the republicans can point to no prior impeachment where that has not been a part of t this was a bogus sham political exercise from the beginning and the senate should swiftly dismiss it because we cannot legitimize this debasement of the impeachment clause of the constitution with an actual trial. this is not merited because there is absolutely no allegation of even a high crime or a misdemeanor. so based on that alone the senate should dismiss it. the critical thing to think about here, joe, and i know you're focused on this, is if there is an impeachment trial,

the senate cannot do anything else. so we have fisa reauthorization that is expiring, it is expiring in weekend, it's in the senate, the senate has to deal with it. now at the same time that the speaker is sending over the articles of impeachment to the senate he wants to pass a new foreign aid series of bills that will have to go back to the senate because he refuses to put the senate bill on the floor that we can pass so the president can sign it so aid can get immediately to ukraine, which is out of a.m. mission. aid can get to israel which has now been attacked directly by iran for the first time. humanitarian aid can get to gazans who are desperate for t instead the senate will not be able to take up those bills. so it's not just an academic exercise here, it actually is going to impede, if this trial were to go forward, the work of the congress and the national security of the united states.

>> congressman, let's move from this impeachment trial to the speaker's plan here of these foreign aid bills. no text out yet so we don't quite know his approach, but we do know that some in his own party with furious that he would even consider helping ukraine and are threatening his job. a number of -- at least two republicans have already said they'd support a motion to oust him. if that were the case and his speakership was threatened, would you and your fellow democrats come to his aid to help the ukraine aid bill get through and help keep speaker johnson in his post? >> let's just take one step back and focus on, you know, the antecedent part of your question which is just remarkable. the fact is this is a pro-putin republican party. that is why they do not want to support ukraine aid because donald trump is aligned with vladimir putin who has consistently helped trump win elections and helped

republicans. the notion that these republicans would not want to support our democratic ally in ukraine against a fascist dictator trying to conquer his neighbor in ukraine is remarkable. but if the speaker does put the contours of the senate bill on the house floor in whatever form, i think he will have a lot of democratic support because we need this aid. we need it had months ago and he has stalled and stalled because the republican party is held captive by donald trump and marjorie taylor greene and the extremists and at some point i think the speaker realizes you cannot be extorted and held hostage by marjorie taylor greene and thomas massey who would love nothing more than to burn this house down. they cannot control what happens in the house of representatives and so the speaker needs to go

forward with this. if he does it in a way that is consistent with the senate bill there will be plenty of democratic support. >> all right. democratic member of the house oversight and homeland security committees, congressman dan goldman, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> it's fascinating, adrienne elrod, you know, there may be people who say, dan goldman, that's awfully harsh to call members of the house pro putin. >> they are. >> when you have the head of the republican intel committee and the head of the republican foreign affairs committee both saying that republican members of the caucus have willfully -- willfully spread vladimir putin's propaganda, russian talking points, it's pretty safe to say they're -- they're pro-putin, especially if they vote against one bill after another bill after another bill

to actually help freedom fighters stop the invasion. >> yeah, look, i'm glad the congressman went there and said that because it's true. and of course, you know, we saw in 2016 a lot of people were aghast when the 16 intelligence committees in government and the legislative branch came forward and said we know that russia has infiltrated and compromised the election process. of course, it's only become more compounded since then. look, the thinner mark johnson's margins are in terms of his very thin republican majority, hanging on i think by one vote, the more the dan goldman's and other members of congress who are seen as moderates down the middle are going to call republicans out for what it is, which is, yes, a lot of them are pro-putin. >> former senior aide to both the biden and clinton campaigns, adrienne elrod, thank you for being on this morning. coming up on "morning joe," fed chair jerome powell says a lack of progress on inflation

has weakened the case for cutting interest rates anytime soon. we will talk to andrew ross sorkin about the revised expectations, plus he will explain the looming showdown at tesla over whether shareholders should provide elon musk with the richest pay package in u.s. corporate history. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. tory you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. for moderate to severe crohn's disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease.

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beautiful live picture of san francisco. wow. with the fog rolling in through the bay. 6:33 in the morning, 9:33 here on the east coast. federal reserve chairman jerome powell says interest rate cuts are unlikely at least in the near future. powell said while inflation continues to drop it has not moved down quickly enough.

let's brink in the co-anchor of knbc's "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin. many expected to hear that it is not the time to drop interest rates yet. what's wall street reading into the comments? >> i think wall street is reading into that we're not going to see a drop anytime soon, inflation will be persistent for some time and jay powell will not be lowering interest rates until he is confident that the inflation piece is under control and it's going to be hard to get quite confident about that. you know, it's very interesting, people have been rooting, if you will, for him to lower interest rates, but that would suggest in some ways that the economy would be softening, you know. jason furman an exist at harvard is now saying and i think a lot of folks on wall street are listening to him, suggest that if, in fact, jay powell were to lower interest rates later in the year it wouldn't be a sign about inflation, it would be a

sign about unemployment, meaning that the employment picture would be weaker than you would want. so, you know, it sort of depends on what everybody is really rooting for. i don't think you want to be rooting for a slowing economy and it's going to probably take a slowing economy for interest rates to come down anytime soon. >> you know, andrew, i mean, we keep waiting for the soft landing. do you know what, the jet doesn't want to land. i mean, the economy just keeping roaring and they keep trying to get it to land, it keeps going. very interesting market reaction yesterday, after the announcement i was expecting everything to plummet. i'm wondering had wall street already -- had they already factored this in? you and i had talked about it before, he went going to get to the two or three cuts when you have inflation running above 3%, the economy is still hot. and it looks like early -- early sign futures look pretty good for today as well. >> you know, i think what's

happening is people are realizing that earnings are pretty good, things are -- things are moving along. i mean, that's the thing, this is a very good economy. if you can take the inflation piece out of it, it's very hard to say this is not a great economy, but of course, you know, you look over the last couple years and we talked about the politics of it, but right now it is a good economy and in some ways people are rooting for it to be a worse economy so they can get the interest rates down lower. there is a lot of social reasons why that would be a good thing, to get people into homes and create mobility, but at the same time as you said you can't keep this economy down. >> so, andrew, let's talk about some of your new reporting in deal book about elon musk kind of going to battle with the board and a court in delaware about his own pay package. remind us and our viewers of what this is all about and what may come next. >> this is fascinating, i'm curious where all of you would land. back in 2018 tesla's board put in place a compensation plan for

elon musk that would pay him the equivalent of $55 billion, that's with a "b", if he reached certain milestones that at the time -- and i wrote about it -- people thought were laughable. the company at the time was worth $59 billion, that was the market cap, the valuation of the entire company, he would get all of this money if the company was one day worth over $650 billion. it would have to be one of the three or four, you know, highest value companies in america. nobody back in 2018 thought that, and, by the way, he would not get paid a cent if he didn't reach those milestones. there was a view among shareholders that this was a skin in the game -- this was skin in the game deal as you could possibly ever have. anyway, three months ago a judge, of course, after all of this happened and he reached all of those milestones i were shocking said, actually, this plan is no good, i'm voiding the plan, i don't feel comfortable with the plan, it feels like it's too much money and it feels like the board was too close -- >> wait.

andrew, andrew, help me out here. i mean, you know, nobody would accuse us of being big elon musk fans. >> yeah. >> but you enter into a deal. >> yep. >> and you say, if i hit these levels, you pay me this much money. >> that was the deal. >> and it's an arm's length agreement and this arm's length agreement -- the money doesn't matter. it just doesn't matter. if they make that agreement, he hits his target, i guess it's just a conservative in me saying what the hell is a judge doing stepping in saying that's too much money? that's the deal they made. >> that's where i stand on this, but there's other people who have a different view. i agree with you, joe. i actually think that a deal was made and, by the way, 73% of the shareholders at the time voted in favor of the deal. the judge undid it saying that the company didn't properly disclose to the shareholders exactly how the negotiations had gone and claimed it was not an arm's length deal.

by the way, that was what the judge said. so -- >> wow. >> -- so now what happens is tesla is going back to shareholders today and saying, hey, everybody, we want you effectively to ratify or to reinstate the previous deal. now that you know everything, we're actually stapling this decision, the judge thinks it's awful, she thinks we're too close to elon musk, the board, and that all of these shenanigans and terrible things happened. now that you know all of that we want you to revote effectively on this deal. it's very interesting because prospectively back in 2018 shareholders were looking ahead and thinking this is the deal we want to make. today if i told you that you could save a couple billion dollars, would you? and so it's going to be very interesting to see how shareholders ultimately vote on this deal. of course, elon musk, interestingly -- and i don't think people realize this, over the last -- since 2018 hasn't been paid a dollar. now, by the way, he had a lot of stock in the company prior, but hasn't gotten a dollar from the

company and if, in fact, this deal is reinstated he then still has to hold the shares for another five years. so that would effectively align him with the shareholders, but there are some people who say he's already aligned with the shareholders given how much he already owns. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. we appreciate it. we will see you tomorrow. now to the olympic flame which is -- >> by the way, keir -- i'm worried keir -- poor keir. >> poor keir. >> he goes to the toughest places on earth to bring us the news. >> poor keir. >> and the sacrifices that he makes, i'm always worried but this morning i'm especially concerned, he's in a place that -- >> keir. >> yeah, keir, the olympics are coming to paris, keir. >> and that's where you are. >> are you going to camp out right there until the torch is lit? >> are you going to be -- are you going to be okay? >> yeah, everything going all right? >> reporter: well, if it makes

you feel any better, guys, you know, if cole porter was still around i'd want to have a word. this is paris in the springtime, it's barely stopped raining. >> oh, no. >> reporter: if there's any kind of way that i can help you feel a little less envious, yeah. but i promise you, though, when the summer comes it's going to be amazing. it is going to be amazing. you know, we've had such an avalanche of tough news, haven't we, that i think pretty much everyone is going to feel like the summer and the olympics and paris will bring a little sparkle into folks' lives because macron this week suggested there may be a change if the security situation demands it, but very, very likely, frankly, i think 99% likely we're going to see the opening ceremony here on the seine with 10,500 athletes on 160 boats, more than 300,000 spectators lining the banks of

the river. i mean, look at this view, you're right, joe and mika, look at this incredible view. for paris it's going to be one of the biggest events its ever staged. this morning the olympic flame en route from greece to paris. just 100 days from the city of light's first olympics in 100 years, and now a first glimpse of the stunning venues built at some of the city's most famous sites. >> oh, my goodness. incredible. >> reporter: under the eiffel tower nbc news showed around the beach volleyball. >> this is exciting. to actually see it like this, you get really a feeling for how it's going to be. >> yeah, indeed. it is really exciting. you can almost feel the atmosphere of the 13,000 people. >> reporter: the centerpiece said to the river seine, hosting the opening ceremony. this week president macron saying for the first time that france has backup locations planned if security threats

arise. now many olympic locations visible from a riverboat. my guide oliver. >> this is where it's all going to happen. this is a really famous bridge and on both sides we're going to be having olympic events. >> that side and this side? >> both. >> reporter: in total there are 24 venues scattered in and around paris. skateboarding and for the first time break dancing. archery, tae kwon do and fencing. while just nine miles outside paris the spectacular chateau versailles, home of louis xiv who had a passion for horses will stage the olympic equestrian events. >> this backdrop with chateau versailles. >> reporter: up to 40,000 spectators will watch competing riders encircle the magnificent golden fountains. then a different kind of gold at

a french jewelry house the paris 2024 medals set with tiny fragments of the eiffel tower and encased in louis vuitton trunks. heightened security means every apartment overlooking events will be searched. this boston native shows us around her magnificent paris home. she has volunteered to greet athletes when the games begin. >> it's such a beautiful city and i want everyone that comes here to have a wonderful experience and walk away, fall in love with it like i have. >> reporter: back here live in paris, guys, it will be quite something if they pull off this summer games without any challenges because -- not least because beijing, for example, cost more than $50 billion, that's with a "b." here the estimate is $10 billion. so that's one of the other reasons why using these historic venues around the city, you know, may well turn out to be a

really good move by the french. joe, if it makes you feel any better i can send you a bottle of en rouge. coming up, our next guest is one of "time magazine's" most influential people of the year, comedian alex adleman joins us to talk about that honor and his standup special. "morning joe" will be right back. ial. "morning joe" will be right back oh, yeah, man. take it from your inner child. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover.

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december. christmas is everywhere. hanukkah's one little nub at the end of the shampoo aisle. there's passover masa there for some reason. they're always like you're so lucky, you get eight days of gifts. i have never met a single jew who got eight days of decent gifts. >> that is a clip from the standup special alex edelman just for us making its streaming debut on max. i said it right, edelman. just moments ago the comedian was named to this year's time's 100. that's amazing, as one of the most influential people of 2024, and let's welcome the writer and comedian back to the show. it's great to have you on "morning joe" again. >> the power, the influence. i am actually too nervous to ask a question. i'm going to pass it on to our

good friend john heilemann who, of course, is a massive fan. john, first question? >> well, time 100 understate it is. alex is easily in the heilemann top five of most influential people in the world. alex, you spent years on this, and you did this show for a really long time. the special is out now. people know i'm a huge fan as joe just said, double barreled question here. over the years that you spent making this thing, what's the most important thing you learned, and what's it like to say good-bye to something that has been the center of your creative life for all this time and to have to leave it behind and move on? >> you know, i think the most -- first of all, it's crazy to be on that list along with fellow comedians like kiley my knowing

max ver snappen. the thing that i learned, after every show i'd stand outside and talk to people. i'd wait after every show on the sidewalk and talk to whoever had a question, and people's desire to actually know what people say about them when they're not in the room is really, really interesting, and the show centers on me going to this meeting of white nationalists in queens. i think there is a desire to be seen by people who completely disagree with you and to have those conversations. that's really interesting. and in terms of saying good-bye to it, it's bittersweet. it's nice that it's moved on to this very heightened form and we shot it on broadway, so it's the nicest version of the show, but also i made it with my -- the guy who directed it, adam brace directed the live show. he was my closest pal and we worked together for 11 years and he passed away right before we started on broadway. it's weird. i love the show.

it's the best thing i've ever been a part of. i've loved doing it, but saying good-bye to the show is also me sort of saying good bye to our partnership. so it's very bittersweet is the one word answer i should have given, but yeah. >> you're correct. the answer you should have given. do the people who put you on the list at time magazine, how many of them knew that you used to work out everything you're doing now in between innings at fenway park. do they know that? >> no, no. >> that could be the key to -- one of the keys to your success. >> mike, i worked at the red sox when i was a kid when i was a teenager, and i knew mike and i'd see him around, but yeah, i started as a teenager at fenway park. baseball is such a great sport. it's an hour of excitement stretched out over the course of four and a half years. i really got all the time to enjoy really prickly wits. >> how old were you when you

figured out that you could make a living being funny? >> i never thought i could make a living at it. earlier this year is when i thought i could make a living. i always thought being funny was my way in with smarter people. maybe like 15, 16 people, i sort of figured that. >> if you're going to be camped out at fenway park and inspired by this year's red sox, it would be a farce or perhaps a black comedy. you're putting to rest this chapter. what sort of -- what's next for you? how do you find next inspiration? you've been telling this story so well to such acclaim, it's obviously touched a lot of people. how do you then find inspiration for the next thing? >> i've been going to different weird places. i went to savior day to see louis farrakhan speak. that was interesting. it was three and a half hours of pretty intense anti-semitism. >> he had some thoughts with you probably. i was like oh, if i want my second show, it's right here. i'm writing and directing a

christmas movie -- >> wait a minute. what's the problem, mike? >> you were doing hanukkah in the clip that we just showed. >> it's time for the other side, isn't it? >> you guys don't get passover off? i thought everybody got passover off, you know, to not eat bread along with us. yeah, no, i'm doing another -- i'm doing a christmas song, i'm writing and directing a christmas movie. i'm writing a book about places i don't belong. i'm going to nascar races. i went to do pottery in japan for a while. i'm just being weird and hoping something good comes out of it i guess. >> you joked in the special that your comedy sometimes didn't extend beyond the upper west side, and you talk an awful lot about being jewish. you of course need to give your full name to everybody that's watching right now, but there were just hilarious -- it was

just a hilarious walk through the white nationalist's meeting if i can say that, and poor chelsea, the doomed relationship. but you -- at one point you said -- and i wrote it down here -- my dad grew up in jewish in boston during a time when it was hard to be a jew there, which was between 1500 and 1991. so your future routines, are they going to focus, again, on being jewish? is that going to still be a central part of your act? and if you can, again, start the answer by giving your full name. >> my full name is --. >> wow.

>> i don't know, look, i've done three solo shows. my first was called millennial, which was about being part of a generational cohort, and the second show was about the loneliness of people -- the loneliness of pretty much everybody and this is my third show sort of about assimilation and anti-semitism. so i think really good comedians, really good solo short artists are sort of a weather vane for things that are happening, or ask an important question, what does it mean to exist in a certain place in a certain time. i guess this show is focused on what it meant to be a jew. i anticipate that i'll talk probably more about judaism in my life, but also there are other vectors to my personality, so maybe i'll talk about being annoying in my next -- or talk about baseball or something like that. >> we look forward to it all. >> it's extraordinary. extraordinary special, and the time -- the timeliness of it because of anti-semitism across

america and the globe could not be -- >> absolutely. >> -- better, and we're so glad, congratulations on the time 100 award. >> just for us is now streaming on max. alex edelman, thank you very much, and congratulations on absolutely everything, and that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a short break. te coverage after a short break

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