disruptions. we'll see how far the judge is willing to go in order to enforce that, but you're right, donald trump is sitting there, and he's not happy about any kind of restrictions on his ability to communicate, on his ability to dominate the room, and i think that's an unusual position for him to be in. >> joyce vance and peter baker, thank you both so much. and peter's book again is "the divider: trump in the white house." that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show on social media@mitchelreports. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪♪ good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. one step forward, two steps back. just when we thought donald trump's hush money trial was moving ahead of schedule, two of the seven people picked to serve as jurors have been excused. juror two complaining she was

essentially outed by the media. juror four let go after seemingly lying to the judge. so now we're down to five. where does this go from here? plus, the family feud unfolding today with very high stakes, influencing the outcome of the presidential election. what 15 members of the kennedy clan are now saying about rfk junior's white house bid and why they're endorsing president biden instead of their own flesh and blood. >> and the nasty split between speaker mike johnson and house conservatives is somehow getting worse with personal insults and more threats to remove him from his post over foreign aid. we'll take you to capitol hill in just a minute. but we start with donald trump's hush money trial where the proceedings are unfolding more like a tv legal drama than your run-of-the-mill jury selection. two of the jurors who had already been selected for the trial are now out. juror number two, a female nurse, said she was worried she

couldn't stay anonymous or stay fair after details about her identity were made public. juror number four, an i.t. consultant apparently hid details about previous brushes with the law. all of this burning time and moving selection backwards, with just five jurors now in place and 13 more still needed. so far today, more than half of the initial pool of 96 prospective jurors have been dismissed after saying they can't be fair. that includes one woman who spoke to my colleague yasmin vossoughian who's not sure it's even possible to pick an impartial jury. >> i'm not sure about that. >> really? why? >> you know, everybody has biases and, you know, stereotypes in their mind. so you have to be a really, you know, deep and fair person, which is very hard to do, right? >> yeah. >> in order to serve as a juror. i hope they do. i mean, this is justice, right?

i hope they do, yeah. >> i want to bring in nbc's vaughn hillyard who is outside the courthouse. danny cevallos is a criminal district attorney and an msnbc legal analyst. with me here in studio, carol lam, former superior court judge, former u.s. attorney and an msnbc legal analyst. get us up to speed, vaughn, what's the latest from inside the courtroom? >> reporter: and chris, we expect them to be heading in to lunch break here soon, that is after two jurors have been dismissed and excused so far today. those were individuals who had already been seated, already been sworn, took an oath to go and be a part of this jury for donald trump, but what we saw was juror number two and juror number four over the last hours be excused, and that is where the jury selection process has continued moving forward. at any one time, there are 18 individuals answering questions in the jury box. i can tell you right now, we are at juror potential number 18

that is going through that 42-question questionnaire. we were almost there, but then that individual seated in seat 18, chris, i should note compared donald trump to former italian prime minister ber la skoe knee. at that point that individual is promptly dismissed. we've already seen 60 individuals leave the courthouse this morning suggesting they could not be fair or impartial. i want to let you hear from one of them, marks who i talked to a few moments ago. >> so i raised my hand because i was certain that even if -- and intellectually i would be capable of being unbiased -- that because i have satirized mr. trump often in my artwork that this would come to light. >> reporter: mark promptly dismissed after saying as you heard him say, could not be impartial. that's what the district attorney's office and trump's

legal team are trying to find with the other potential jurors they can seat in those vacant spots. i should note in just the last ten seconds, the juror -- potential jurors have been dismissed to lunch here. we now officially have 18 individuals in the jury box who have finished that 42-question questionnaire. after the lunch break it will be up to the d.a.'s office and trump's legal team to go through voir dire where they'll be able to ask direct questions of each of those individual jurors so we expect some progress this afternoon, chris. >> thank you so much for that, vaughn. danny, let's talk about these two dismissed jurors out of seven. i mean, is that common, or do you think past history and maybe more so anytime they have between being selected and opening arguments gives them time to worry about what this might mean for their lives, and we might see more of this. >> it's both common and uncommon. you do lose jurors from time to time. after all, that's why you have alternate jurors because if you lose a juror during trial, then

someone else can step in and fill. it's uncommon because of the way we're losing these jurors. you don't normally lose a juror during jury selection while that juror is waiting for the trial to start. that's unusual, but in a case like this because there's so much media attention and a juror like we've seen went home, maybe had second thoughts about serving on a jury and the duties and obligations it would impose on that juror, they came in before the trial even began and said i don't think i can do this. i think this is actually a good thing. i think you want to get rid of jurors who may be on the fence early on so you can fill them in during this much more convenient process, far better to lose a juror right now than be in the middle of trial. we've all been there. i know judge lam has probably been there. everybody's terrified you're going to lose the juror, and then you're going to be out of a jury and you're going to have to declare a mistrial, start all

over again. got to get this done. i think it's tedious, it's procedurally difficult, but better that these come up now rather than later. >> i think there are a couple of different shall we say pods here, right? one is, carol, what happened here? you know, i slept on it. i thought i'm not really sure i can be fair and impartial, even though i said i could, and that kind of makes it easy, right, for both sides and the judge, they say, if you can't be impartial, you can't be a juror. it's another thing to worry about what this might mean for your life. one of the last things judge merchan said to prospective jurors before they went to lunch, do not read or listen to any newspapers, tvs, et cetera. don't tell anyone where you live or who your employer is. there are real concerns about these jurors and whether or not they would be safe if it becomes

known who they are. you've been a judge, how does judge merchan handle this, and how big of a concern do you think it is towards seating a full jury? >> chris, judge merchan has a big task in front of him right now, and he's doing a good job at protecting the jurors and also making sure that donald trump receives a fair trial. but let's face it, this is a trial unlike any other in many respects. now, there have been many trials in this nation's history where jurors have cause to fear for their safety and the judge has cause to fear for their safety. >> a mob trial, for example. >> a mob trial, a drug trial, a cartel trial. and we've already seen that it's not unprecedented for jurors' identities to be held secret. probably not from the parties but at least from the public. so that's important, but it's not unprecedented. but the combination of factors here, the intense publicity, the

divisive nature of this presidential race, the divisive nature of donald trump makes this an unusual case. and judge merchan has to balance all of those factors in deciding how he's going to select this jury. >> we just saw donald trump there moving. i wonder is it even harder now than it was a year ago, five years ago for sure just because technologically, if you want to track somebody down, let's just be honest, you don't necessarily have to be an i.t. expert to do that. your information is out there. >> yeah, you don't, and in truth, i've been contacted by people at my home address because they were able to just find it on the internet, and i think that that is something that is relatively new, at least in the last decade or two. this phenomenon simply didn't exist, and the jurors d the judge u have to deal with the fact that not only is public information much more accessible to people just by surfing the internet, but also the jurors'

past histories, their own social media is now available for everybody and things that they may have forgotten or things that they perhaps said that they wish they hadn't said are now very easily accessible to those who are picking a jury. >> yeah, we've seen how social media and some postings have played into this already. so danny, let's talk about the makeup of the jury pool so far. "the new york times" is reporting before jury selection began, mr. trump's lawyers want a jury that includes younger black men and white working class men, particularly public employees like police officers, firefighters, and sanitation workers. prosecutors conversely, will probably be looking for more educated voters from democratic neighborhoods, fishing for those who consume news sources like msnbc. based on that analysis, is it possible to look at this jury right now and see which side has maybe a more favorable set of jurors? >> sure, obviously the people, the prosecution. this is an easier process for them, and look, if this case

were in staten island, it would be completely reversed. i mean, in a way we have a very easy metric for determining what jurisdictions would be better for trump and worse for trump. it's voting results. you don't normally have that. generally lawyers have an idea of what kinds of folks are in a particular jurisdiction, and manhattan is a very different culturally jurisdiction than say staten island, and normally working class folks, people who have ties to law enforcement, those are people that defense attorneys like me do not want on the jury at all costs. they are for cause strikes. you don't even need to use preemptories most of the time. there is a bit of a reversal here in that donald trump wants people that traditionally criminal defense attorneys do not want on the jury, and probably to some degree the people are looking to seat jurors that ordinarily they might not want on a jury themselves. but ultimately, jury selection is a science the way astrolog

your is a science. you can make generalizations about jurors in a particular jury pool. the case will come down to the facts. two things, number one, i think the self-selection process has actually been a good one. it's worked here because you've actually seen some jurors who might even be inclined a little towards trump, which i think shocked a lot of people. so i think that process has worked very well for judge merchan. it's a good thing that half of the jurors, that roughly 50 out of 100 say i'm out of here and that they self-select. that means the process is working. so it may take a little while. frankly, it's moving much faster than anybody would have expected, but it's marching along. also, one other thing i would say, two lawyers, yes, normally lawyers do not get on a jury, there's no exclusion, but normally one side or another strikes them, and the reason for that is maybe they're concerned that they might be too closely

related to that practice. we're in manhattan, there are a lot of lawyers in manhattan. you're probably going to get a lawyer in the jury pool and ultimately, you know, you can't make generalizations based on the job. we have a couple of different people from different walks of life. got to go with your gut instinct more than you do generalizations about who people are, where they come from, what group they're in. >> we're out of time, carol, but let me ask you really quickly, judge merchan set opening arguments for monday. do you think that's likely to happen? >> it's looking less and less likely. i don't think judge merchan expected to lose two of the jurors he'd already seated and sworn. he still has a hearing with respect to information the government wants to bring in if donald trump wants to take the stand. this looks like the later in the week next week. >> thank you.

in 60 seconds, fighting the threat from within, why 15 members of the kennedy family will throw their weigh behind joe biden at the expense of one of their own. just how powerful is the kennedy name in 2024? we're live in philadelphia after this. ia after this some migraine attacks catch you off guard, but for me a stressful day can trigger migraine attacks too. that's why my go to is nurtec odt. it's the only migraine medication that can treat and prevent my attacks all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion and stomach pain. now i'm in control. with nurtec odt i can treat a migraine attack and prevent one. talk to your doctor about nurtec today. you know, i spend a lot of time thinking about dirt. at three in the morning. any time of the day. what people don't know is that not all dirt is the same. you need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. look at this new organic soil from miracle-gro.

everybody should have it. it worked great for us. this is as good as gold in any garden. if people only knew that it really is about the dirt. you're a dirt nerd. huge dirt nerd. i'm proud of it! [ryan laughs] the most storied family in democratic politics, the kennedys are lining up for joe biden today, and very pointedly against the candidacy of robert f. kennedy jr. 15 kennedys are about to rally together in philadelphia to say the president represents moral leadership and a vote to save our democracy and our decency. among them rfk jr.'s own sister. >> we're doing not because we feel the stakes are so high. i love bobby and i like bobby, but this campaign is not about

bobby. this campaign is about trump versus biden, and what we need to do today is focus on biden winning. a vote for anyone else is a vote for trump. >> nbc's monica alba and nbc 10's lauren mayk are reporting from philadelphia, and also with us is chuck todd. monica, what do we know about how this endorsement came together and how important it is to president biden? >> reporter: well, it's been in the works for some time, chris, and we know that recently there was a very intentional visit by members of the kennedy family to the white house on st. patrick's day, invited by president biden to spend some time together where we know that was meant to signal that they were laying the groundwork for this kind of endorsement where you're going to be seeing robert f. kennedy jr.'s siblings come out and effectively say we believe president biden has the values

and is running on a platform that more closely aligns with what we believe in than that of our own sibling, nephew, uncle, relative. they're really going to come together and effectively say that this election for them is too important not to get off the sidelines and deliver this message today. and that is why former congressman joe kennedy ii told me in an interview they didn't want to wait to go deeper into the cycle to do this kind of endorsement. here's a little bit more of our conversation. >> why is it to deliver this message today? >> it's the heart of campaign time, right? these campaigns come up every four years. these races have clarified. we know who's going to win a democratic nomination, that's the president of the united states. we know that donald trump is now going to be the republican nominee, and they are the only two people that are able to win this election. it's just -- it's one of each.

>> reporter: and they're going to frame this in some of their remarks today as this being a potentially dangerous issue that robert f. kennedy jr. with his campaign could siphon off votes that would be potentially president biden's in november, and for his part, the candidate is reacting on x by saying that of course he loves his family, that of course he respects their decision to speak out and be politically active, which is a hallmark of the kennedy family, but also saying that he wants people essentially to make up their own minds and really decide for themselves and of course indicating he's still completely plowing full ahead with this campaign and candidacy as of now, chris. >> chuck, there is an argument that the late ted kennedy's endorsement of barack obama in 2008 helped to change the course of his fight against hillary clinton. what does the kennedy name and what does a kennedy endorsement potentially mean in 2024, do you

think? >> i'm not sure what the endorsement means. let me tell you what the name means. i think there's a credibility that comes with the name, and that's why you're seeing when his name is put on the ballot -- this is robert f. kennedy jr. -- if you don't like the two challengers and you're not ready to say undecided, it feels like a safe space. kennedy name, right? it feels like a safe space to sort of park yourself, if you will. this endorsement, i certainly think it tries -- it's an attempt to virtue signal to democrats who aren't big biden fans to say, hey, even the kennedys are not lined up with kennedy here. don't do that. the person who's got more to lose from kennedy's candidacy appears to be trump than it does biden. i mean, i still think biden's got -- biden's problem is with potential third-party candidates is his support for israel in that that's the issue, it's that there is a place for

progressives on the left to go protest both by biden and trump essentially as far as progressives are concerned, have the same stance on israel. if you want to protest that, then it's kennedy or other vehicles to do that. i still think that's a bigger challenge for the biden campaign than simply rallying the troops on kennedy. i think financially sending a message to donor, hey, just so you know, don't flirt with robert f. kennedy. his own family has essentially ostracized him politically. >> you heard this analysis, chuck, about this, and you say don't discount voters' interest in robert kennedy jr.'s third-party candidacy, even if he seems to be trying not to be taken seriously. are those polls that you talk about his name and the fact that that name isn't biden or trump, or is there something else there? >> look, i think he's none of the above is what he is. look, i equate him more to --

this is going way back into the memory banks for some folks and it's true history for a lot of our colleagues, but i'm going to go back to a name john anderson. he was the third-party candidate during reagan and carter in 1980. people didn't vote for anderson. they were basically voting none of the above. and i think what kennedy is is none of the above in this race. which is you have a -- the voters that seem to be the most attracted to kennedy are the ones, for instance, on the right that don't like trump but can't bring themselves to support biden, and they see kennedy and his willingness to buck the left is at least a better alternative than biden, and then of course you see some, i think, he does best with those that don't belong to either party, right? he's a good 50% of his support in most of the polling i've seen does come from hardcore independents. i do think eventually they're going to pick one of the two major candidates, but how long is kennedy polling in low double-digits? long enough to be in the

debates? and if he gets in the debates, that's some rarely charted territory. that could change things in ways we can't fully, i think, know for sure right now. but that's what makes the kennedy candidacy. look, if he were to just be anticovid vaccine but pro measles vaccine, i think he would already be polling higher. because of his sort of out of the mainstream views, particularly on vaccines, i think that in particular is what's keeping his number as low as it is because we know the group of voters that would like somebody other than biden and trump is bigger than 8 to 12%. >> yeah, all right, lauren, so it all comes down to voters. what are you hearing from them and local leaders frankly on the ground there? >> and chris, just as we came in today before we came in, we talked to some rotors outside of the rec center where i am now, and some of them recognize the

importance of the kennedy family announcement, but i'll tell you what really made an impressvote the fact that president biden was coming to a neighborhood in north philadelphia. of course he is in philadelphia and pennsylvania all the time, but to them this felt different. philadelphia is a city that has dealt with gun violence and poverty, and here he was in a neighborhood. to them this was an attempt to connect and there is still work to be done. here's part of my conversation with a young voter about how she's feeling right now. >>. >> we really don't know what he's doing. maybe that's why i'm glad that he came so we could see more, hear more, we could talk to him more. honestly in my age group we can't know. it's probably we'll say he's not doing nothing because it's we don't know much. >> he needs to tell people. >> yeah, get more connection with the group, with the younger group too. it's good to see the politicians, but if you want our

vote the, you got to come speak to the voters. >> reporter: that voter is 25 years old. she told me she voted for president biden in 2020, and when it comes to this year, she says she is still listening. she also mentioned to me that her brother is very concerned about his student loans. that of course is something that the biden administration has been recently highlighting including with a visit from the vice president here in philadelphia just recently. >> lauren mayk, monica alba, chuck todd, thank you all very much. and coming up, we'll go back to the manhattan courthouse where donald trump's hush money trial is in a break. the two journalists who have been inside the courthouse for us will be on live right after this. us will be on live right ar this have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further! safe step's best offer, just got better! now, when you purchase your brand new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package. yes, a free shower package!

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it has been a pretty wild day with lots of unexpected developments already at the manhattan courthouse where donald trump's hush money case is now on a lunch break. i want to bring in msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, and "new york times" investigative reporter sue craig. both have been closely watching on tvs inside overflow rooms. okay, lisa, maybe it was all calm inside. i can tell you watching from the outside it was like juror number two has gone what? juror number four now. they're having a hearing. juror number four is gone. what? i mean, give us your summary.

what was going on today? >> well, as you noted, chris, and then there were five. we have two jurors who were seated yesterday who are no longer going to be part of this panel. one of them, juror number two came in this morning and notified the court that particularly because of the public attention being paid to this trial she no longer felt she could be fair and impartial. based on the amount of information that had already been released about her, she was getting calls from friends and family asking her if she was impanelled on this jury. that was too much pressure for this juror to take. she asked essentially to be excused and she was. juror number four is a different story. juror number four was someone who the d.a.'s office discovered -- and i'm going to try and be judicious here -- had previously been involved in a criminal investigation rendering their answers to one question on the jury questionnaire questionable as to its voracity. he it not show up until well

after 10:00 despite being asked to come in at 9:15 to address those issues. he was questioned by the court in a side bar. we did not hear any of it, and judge merchan said that the questions were of such a personal nature and the juror also expressed annoyance with having to get into that much detail that he was going to seal that portion of the transcript. he will never know specifically why he was let go. at the end of that back and forth, and there were extensive side bars and back and forth while trump sat alone at the counsel table sort of looking around and occasionally watching. at the end of that, juror number four was also excused. we have seen the initial questioning of 18 more jurors this morning from that juror pool. we're also going to have to replace jurors two and four at some point before a full jury can be seated. >> we've talked, sue to a couple more prospective jurors who were let go, and they talked about seeing donald trump and, you know, you walk into a room and somebody that you've seen on tv

for literally years and years and years, and suddenly he's there in person. one of them talked about him looking over and making sort of eye contact with the jurors. what were your observations about what you could see from what was going on inside the courtroom? >> well, i think that the jurors' concern about being identified based on the information that we are getting just from them standing up in court and saying what they do and where they live and what their hobbies are and they're single and they have a dog or two cats is very concerning to these jurors. juror number two expressed that is why she did not want to continue, and juror number four, there were questions raised about his credibility, as lisa said, we don't know why he was let go. but he also said in the back and forth this morning that he just doesn't -- he's also concerned about being identified, and i think that this is a struggle, and at one point we were -- we've been told by the court

just to report not on what we see, just what is in the court record, which is interesting because we can see and we can hear from the -- you know, when the jurors are reading out questions that it's a woman, it's a man. we have to stick to exactly what's in the court record, and so there's just things that we're being very careful right now on reporting on. but even as i'm sitting there in the overflow room, we're still getting a lot of information about these jurors, so that's sort of the big concern, and i think the topic this morning in the courtroom. >> so lisa, where does this leave us? i mean, we did have this impression, maybe wrong, but you got seven jurors, which seem like pretty quickly once things got going, now we've gone in reverse. what does this mean, and what are we looking for this afternoon? >> i think this afternoon, first of all, when we come back from the lunch break, the jurors are going to sit and they're going to be questioned in what appear to be like focus group sessions

with the lawyers. this is new for me too. as a lawyer, i primarily practiced in federal court where the judge does most of the questionable. here on the other hand each side has 30 minutes with the jurors to basically establish a number of principles or issues that are important to them and ask the jurors what they think about them. it's almost like a round robin where they pass the microphone from one to another. instead of referring to each other by name, the attorneys will say juror b 370, what do you think about that? we will watch this process, and then they will both have an opportunity to exercise challenges for cause and their preemptory challenges. i want to reinforce this even though we've seen two jurors now self-excuse, i don't think that resets the clock with respect to the preemptory challenges. each side still has four challenges left for whatever reason. now, they can continue to challenge jurors for cause if they think that a juror is impermissibly biased or

otherwise would be prejudicial to either of the parties. the ultimate arbiter is judge merchan himself, whereas the preemptory challenges, that's in control of the lawyers. i think we'll end today with a healthy number of jurors, and we might even get to the 12 jurors necessary to fill a complete jury. what we probably won't do however is seat six alternate jurors. that's both because we will have to put another panel of 18 in to get through this process all over again. it starts all over again, right, with everybody answering the questionnaire and then the focus grouping and then the challenges. that's a length thi process. but also when we get to that process of selecting alternate jurors, each side has two preemptory challenges per alternate juror for a total of 12. that means they'll be able to challenge lots of people for unstated, unspecified reasons, and it may take a little bit longer until we get to a full complement of 12 jurors and six alternates. >> having lost one, sue, because

she not some phone calls and people asking her, oh, are you on this case, and it started to make her maybe a little nervous, and you could see any number of reasons why someone would feel nervous about getting on what some folks are calling the trial of the century, but i'm reading last words from judge merchan before they went to lunch break, and it's the usual, right? that you should not read or listen to any newspaper, tv, or attempt to learn about the case so you don't go home and google it, that the jurors should know that by now. but he also said you must mott discuss through phone, text, or email. is the implication there literally nothing, you can say nothing about this case? >> yeah. you know, he wants them on lockdown, and it is a concern. i mean, that was chilling when juror number two came in today and said enough. i wonder tomorrow how many

others we're going to get like that. even today the judge said to the group, he's saying them before they get into the box to be interviewed as prospective jurors. if you have a conflict, let us know, you can go. and even some who don't leave at that point get up even between the time that they've gotten to have that question and gotten into the box, they've decided that it's too much for them. and i think tomorrow, i would expect -- we don't know, but it could happen, that we lose another one or two. there's been an expectation that the jury ooh selection will finish tomorrow and the trial will start on monday. that could happen, we just don't know. we're seeing the struggle of choosing a jury in such a high profile case involving probably the most well-known person on the planet. >> can i add some context, chris, if we have a little bit of time. >> always, lisa. >> this is one of the dangers of breaking the trial midweek as judge merchan has announced is his intention to do.

he participates in a couple of sort of alternate programs both for mental hell and for veterans, and he has expressed his intention to continue to do so. that's a great thing for the lawyers. it gives them 24 hours to research this panel of 96 prospective jurors that they've been handed. but it's a terrible thing in terms of continuity because in that 24 plus hours that has gone on since court let go on tuesday afternoon and be ever we came in this morning, that gives people time to think, and that's not a good thing in terms of the jury selection process going faster. >> lisa rubin and sue craig, not boring, and if there's anything that we have learned, anything can happen. thank you both. and coming up, there's chaos on capitol hill. can lawmakers get past all the infighting to get some much needed legislation done. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc getting screened ♪copy fr ♪ is why i'm delaying ♪ ♪ i heard i had a choice ♪

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the drama and ludicrous showmanship on capitol hill has reached a whole new le l level. mike johnson versus marjorie taylor greene, he's willing to put his job on the line to get foreign aid funding. >> i'm regarding myself as a reagan republican. i understand the concept of maintaining peace through strength. that's one of our guiding principles. it's a really important philosophy, and it's a big part of our party and our world view,

and i think here is an opportunity to make that stand at a really critical time in world history. >> exhibit 2, marjorie taylor greene, who wants johnson out as a result of what he just said in spite of the fact that only one other house member right now supports his ouster. and three, this volatile exchange between james comer whose investigation into alleged wrongdoing by joe biden has produced nothing and jamie raskin. >> what is the crime that you want to impeach joe biden for and keep this nonsense going? why? what is the crime? tell america right now, what is the crime? >> you're about to find out very soon. you're about to find out very soon. >> nbc's julie tsirkin is on capitol hill, brendan buck is a former aide to speakers paul ryan and john boehner, and an msnbc political analyst. julie, i understand the drama and infighting has boiled over on the house floor, one lawmaker threatening speaker johnson

directly, but serious stuff needs to get done, so give us the lay of the land right now. >> reporter: this is what happened, chris. i got off the phone with congressman derrick van orden who members of the freedom caucus, in that tense group that you described aid that he threatened johnson calling him tubby while actually van orden told me literally moments ago that he was referring his comments to matt gaetz. he was telling the hard-liners to bring it on, facetiously meaning the motion to vacate because he is tired, he said, of the quote, cancer that has been spreading among the republican party in the house here. all of this, of course, happening in the context of the foreign aid funding fight, right? johnson right now is trying to pass separate bills to fund ukraine, to fund israel, the indo-pacific as well. those groups, the group of hard-liners this morning were trying to pressure johnson to only put aid to israel on the floor unless the senate takes up their conservative border bill known as hr 2 which they all

have known for months that democratic-run senate will not do. johnson said he's not going to hold ukraine aid hostage over that because he realizes this is a national security priority. ukraine will lose the war, johnson told reporters yesterday, if they don't receive this assistance from the u.s. so johnson now of course faces a fight to lose his speakership gavel on one hand and another to do what's right. he told lawmakers on the floor as well as reporters yesterday that he doesn't care about losing his speakership. he wants to do what's right when it comes to ukraine aid. they're going to move forward with these bills by all accounts, of course, they are still held up in the rules committee, but all in all here just a lot of republican infighting that really has started with kevin mccarthy and his ouster in the fall and just is perpetuaing here on the house floor really preventing the house from being able to do anything that they're supposed to do, chris. >> i mean, brendan, when speaker johnson says ukraine aid is critically important for u.s. national security, big picture,

there really isn't a lot of daylight, is there, between him and joe biden on that or for that matter much of the republican party, so what's going on? >> yeah, he's gone all in on this, and i think it's actually really remarkable. it was only months ago that he was openly questioning whether the united states needed to support ukraine at all. i think what the change has been is the world looks very different when you're sitting in the speaker's office. the stakes are much higher, but also you realize that the weight of what potentially could happen is on your shoulders in some ways. the other day he referred to himself as a wartime speaker. i think that betrayed maybe a dash of self-importance, but i think it speaks to the clarity with which he's speaking to the situation. this is no longer petty politics most of the members play all day. he realizes he has a job to do, and i think he's getting some really good counsel that if you just do the things that you know are the right thing to do, the politics are probably going to work out for you in the end. >> will they though? >> i think he's going to be able

to move this through and sur vooif it. >> is that what our lesson is in the last year, that it will work out? >> i think it can. i think it will show that if you do the things that you think are right, you're going to survive, and i think he's going to survive this. i think democrats are going to be there in large numbers or whatever the necessary numbers are. let's remember, it is still very unpopular to remove the speaker. while matt gaetz got away with it last time and marjorie taylor greene is talking about it this time, that incident on the floor demonstrates the vast majority of this conference don't want to play games like that. they want a speaker who leads them. they want to be told what to do. they want to have a game plan and a call and see that you have some passion behind what you're doing. i think he's starting to show that, and i think he's probably gaining a lot of respect in the lashing out you're seeing from people like matt gaetz is because they realize their authority or their ability, their leverage on the speaker is being taken away if things play

out the way that i think they will. >> brendan buck and julie tsirkin, thank you, and joining me now is leon panetta, former secretary of defense, former cia director and author of "worthy fights." it is great to have you here. you know, joe biden and a lot of the republican party have something in common here, they're clearly frustrated, and in fact, the president has not -- has an op-ed in "the wall street journal" urging them to pass aid for ukraine, writing if congress passes military aid for ukraine and israel, we won't write blank checks. we'd send military equipment from our own stockpiles, then use the money authorized by congress to replenish those stockpiles by buying from american suppliers. we'd help our friends while helping ourselves. >> you once were a member of the house in addition to leading defense and the cia, what do you make of what you're seeing on capitol hill right now? >> i think this is a very porn

moment. i come from a time in the congress where we had strong bipartisanship where speaker tip o'neill worked very closely with the minority leader bob michael to get a lot of things done, and i think if there's an opportunity here to build a strong bipartisan coalition in favor of supporting our national security and doing the right thing with regard to assistance to ukraine and to taiwan and to israel. i think -- i think this could really change the tone of what's been going on in the house of representatives. i'm glad to hear the speaker speak to a sense of history because, frankly, that's what's because frankly, that's what's important to put nation ahead of party. >> you still have a lot of contacts, what are you hearing? what's the level of nervousness among many of our allies about what they see right now? >> there's been a tremendous amount of nervousness.

all of the people i talk to abroad basically are concerned about whether or not the united states will stand by its word and its credibility. so i think president biden is right to urge the congress to pass this package. i think the speaker is right to put this package to a vote. and i think there's a good chance that by the end of the week, the speaker can look back and not only because we created a strong bipartisan coalition to help govern this country, which is important, but also because we have done the right thing to protect our national security. so, this is a pivotal moment, and i'm hoping for the best. >> let me ask you about one of the two wars that is directly impacted by this. a senior revolutionary guard commander says iran could review its nuclear doctrine because

it's bracing for possible israeli strikes on its facilities. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu despite what joe biden has said to him is defiant, he has rejected pleas not to risk a wider war. he said, in fact, we will make our own decisions. how worried should we be? >> well, i think we should be very worried because i think there's a real danger of major escalation in the middle east. if they strike back in a way that, again, creates another escalation in the war. escalation after escalation. you know, we really have seen the rules of engagement change a lot in the middle east over these last few weeks, and months. the attack by hamas, the october 7th attack, which was unprecedented. israel striking the embassy in

damascus, that's unprecedented. the attack we saw from iran, 300 missiles going at israel. if this tit for tat continues at that level, there is no question that this is going to spiral out of control and create a regional war. >> so iran's foreign minister says teheran has been sending messages to washington through diplomatic channels. we know that stuff is going on. obviously this is an unusual situation, the way the alliances are lining up. do you think there's still a chance, though, to step back from the brink? >> yeah, i do. and the reason i do is because, you know, look, a very important coalition came together to support israel. the united states, great britain, france, jordan, saudi arabia, uae, others. i think that's a very important coalition, working coalition that can not only help defend

israel but it also can help end the war in gaza and also produce a new chapter for what will happen in the middle east for the future. so that coalition, i think, can be very important to being able to urge both netanyahu and others to understand that the important thing right now is to try to see if we can find a way to peace in the middle east. >> let me ask you, finally, and we've only got a minute left, but there are reports and statements being made that it is completely unclear no one knows how many of the hostages being held by hamas are still alive. as someone who worked so long in intelligence, does that surprise you? >> no, not really. i think, you know, when you see the level of bombardment that took place in gaza and the attacks that were made and the

enemy that israel's dealing with in hamas where life doesn't mean very much, i think there's a good chance that many of those hostages have died. and so it makes it that much more important to have a cease fire, to try to determine just how many of those hostages are, in fact, alive. but more importantly, to now provide the humanitarian aid that is so important to all of those victims so that we can move towards a second chapter that allows for the establishment of some kind of palestinian state. >> secretary leon panetta. it's always good to have you on the program, but particularly at a time like this. we appreciate you sharing your expertise. thank you. >> thank you, chris. and right now, president biden is speaking at an event in philadelphia where members of the kennedy family just endorsed him. we've got a live report coming up. up

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it is good to be back with you for this second hour of "chris jansing reports." at this hour, two jurors dismissed before even more could be selected. the new problems today in trump's hush money case, and what it could mean for the time line of the trial. plus, prosecutors accusing trump of violating his gag order seven