on this new hour. a new poll finds interest in our presidential election at a near two decade low. plus, dove station in rafah.

deadly air strikes leave 20 people dead, mostly children. here at home, texas' immigration law with stop and frisk is spreading to other states. let's do it. est in the presidential election hit a near low. 64% of registered voters say they have a high-level interest of the election. on the face it might not sound alarming until you realize it was slower than nbc news found at the same point in time four years ago and during every election cycle before it, going all of the way back to 2008. this after america juggles twiceis, here and abroad the

growing war as tensions over the israeli/hamas war and the volatile situation abroad is contributing to rising inflation and gas prices for americans. meanwhile, trump reported to a manhattan courthouse four times this week at the start of the first ever criminal trial of a former u.s. president. come november, he could become the first to be convicted of a crime. that conviction would not bar him from running to become our president the second time. no matter your stance on any of the above we can agree on two things, this is an unprecedented moment. and americans are not interested in who wins the next election. tonight the question is why? is part of it the trump saturation factor? given historic nature of his trial the af origin american will not escape seeing him on their screens for what is expected to be six weeks of

trial? or that we are gearing up for a rematch that no one wanted. they said i don't think biden has done much as preside and if trump gets elected and i feel it will be just the same thing before biden got elected. to that point is this low-level interest in this year's election due to a brooder sense that our political system is broken and our government is not representing us. no matter where you fit on the political spectrum. to answer all of those questions, life questions, i would say. let's bring in. our panel. just to be clear i disagree. i don't think joe biden and trump was the same for this country. i know it was a sound bite we shared but what do you make of

this phenomenal, adrian, that we are seeing a low-level of interest around the same time, usually the polls taken around the same time? >> i would love to dig into the cross tabs and understand what is in the minds of voters. a lot of it has to do, my guess, a lot of trump fatigue out there. there is somebody who you just mentioned we are going to see. we are just at the beginning of the trial. him in the courtroom for the next six weeks. this is just the first trial of what will be likely several more voter fatigue and president biden, the campaign is still early. seven months away from the election. there is still a lot that, a lot of voters who are not tuned

in or focused on what is going on. once you get more paid media focusing on his accomplishments and job creation but economic successes as president but what he will do in a second term you get the avengers out there on the campaign trail, the cabinet members, mayors, a strong bench of topnotch surrogates out there. once you see it heat up on the democrat side, there will be a lot of excitement and enthusiasm and it will reflect in similar polls like this. >> this is, i think, the first time matthew in my lifetime, that we are seeing a rematch of two former presidents. it has been a minute since we have seen that. how much of that is a factor? this is a match up that people were not excited about from the get go. irrespective of who the two men are and how different they are but the mere fact that it is a replay of two individuals and

america is always about politically speaking at least, rebirth or new candidates or new blood in the system. it is that, two candidates that are both unpopular. unpopular among the general electric. we have 70% of the country that says we are off on the wrong track. and two former presidents running simultaneously in an environment that people are combarded with for information on each of them in the course of this. i think all of the factors. i think lead to this moment in april. where people are ex-- exhausted by it. i do agree with her when it shows how much it matters in the course of this and the

meaning it has. i think at that point people are going to be not focused on like, i don't like him and i don't like him but focused on what does it mean for this country. one of the things that is showing us that way is the number one issue in the new nbc poll, i think as you know, was not inflation, was not the border, the number one issue was protecting american democracy. that was the number one issue in the poll. so, as that conversation happens, as we get closer to election day. my guess is we will set a new record on people who voted in this election.. >> how do you think it will translate? i know we have been saying we are 10 months out of it. is it enough time for both parties? the democrats, on generate voter enthusiasm for their candidate? >> that is plenty of time. but to meet these expectations that we have had in the last

few cycles, unrealistic. you know, you mentioned like the new letter, old goats, i am an old goat. and i have been following since the 1980s. since the 80s, the 90s, the early part of the 20th sent rear turnout was lower than it has been in the last three cycles. we might see a reversion of it and go back to the period when not as many people were interested. however, the other factor that we have not talked about the first rematch since 1956. eisenhower won for the second time before that, you have to go back to 1888. so, rematches are uncommon. and people don't like them. they want something new.

especially when they have two candidates of record age. you have a rematch and you have two old guys, neither of which are recipes for high turnout. >> adrian. thousands of voters showed their frustration with the biden administration's handling of the israel-gaza war. through uncommitted and unrestricted votes. how much of that is low voter turnout? you have a chance in the primary to say, to express your frustration, express your concern and vote uncommitted such as a lot of the voters in the democratic party in michigan. there is a strong belief on the biden campaign. a strong belief that is reflected in polls that a lot of the voters will come home when it comes to the election. it was just laid out perfectly. a giant concern about protecting democracy.

that concern is not because donald trump is, you know, the captain of protecting democracy it is because he is not. y he wants to govern, we have heard it, a lot of the concern is there. i think when it comes down to it, absolutely, after labor day when more voters are tuned in. and a strong choice for this election. it will be more and more clear for what independent voters and swing voters decide the selection. a small sliver, i think it is clear what they will end updoing and vote for joe biden. >> and i think cortez said, i would be under biden than trump. given what trump said we may

not be able to organize against anything. freedom of exprotection would be on the table for him if he enjokes the insurrection act as he wants to. jonathan, i wanted to turn to trump here in a moment. during the hush money trial we saw the former president in a new light. someone who was falling asleep. somebody who did not have the stamina or the strength if you will to realize the moment he was in. could his image take a hit during the next couple of hits on trial in a way that dents him? >> reporter: i think very much could. i was in the courtroom. i saw him falling asleep. this is not reportedly, this actually happened. on more than one occasion, monday and again on thursday and friday. he was nodding off. it makes it hard for him to call joe biden sleepy joe. that nickname is out the window. and think about the contrast. joe biden has what they call

kitchen table conversations going on all across the country. where he gets to highlight his record. donald trump is having defense table whisper conversations with his attorneys. not a good look. you can not get out there on the trail in a split screen of biden campaigning and trump in a criminal trial where he very easily could face conviction. we don't know. but he is in deep legal trouble right now. that is not a good look for trump. >> matthew, is there a moment in this process in this trial over the next several months where the biden administration has to comment? has to talk about what is going on without interfering in the trial or without appearing to be. using it to crystallize over what is at stake for the american voters. tuning some of this out. >> well, first, the first thing that i will say is i agree with jonathan on this.

i think the falling asleep is the worst thing so far to happen to donald trump t. goes to a core thing that he constantly talks about. his vigor and his stamina and all of his supporters draw the crazy pictures of musclebound pictures of him doing crazy stuff that they do. that falling asleep goes straight to that. it takes the strength he thought he had into a weakness. on the other side, the joe biden campaign has been smart. they should not say a word about this until the point he is convicted. once he is convicted they should go all in on it and say do you really want to elect a president convicted of a felony in the course of this. i would not say a word until that moment happens. >> final word to you, do you agree with that as well as a political strategist? >> yes. trump being on trial speaks for itself. why try to politicalize it. the biden campaign, the campaign of the white house

have been smart, stand back and let the chips fall where they may. >> yes. great to have all three of you with us. appreciate your time and insights. >> thank you. after the break, stories of some of the families killed in rafah that mostly took the lives of children that mostly te lives of children hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪

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wivment each passing day of israel-hamas war the world learns of more war and heartbreak. last night no different. warning that the footage you are about to see is graphic. captured video of a newborn baby, her birth, nothing short of a miracle. why? because this baby was delivered from her dead mother's womb the mother, seven months pregnant. her husband, their 3-year-old toddler all killed in an air strike that killed 22 people. 18 of them children according to the health officials in gaza. the child born into a world

surrounded by death. now already an orphan. and while the theater of horror that has become gaza is live streamed on our screens, this is what our congress thinks is the best move. >> on this vote. this bill is passed. that was the house of representatives on capitol hill yesterday after passing a $95 billion aid package with no restrictions for ukraine, israel and taiwan. the long-awaited bill that saw brood bipartisan support is headed to the senate for a vote. roughly $26 billion is allocated for israel. that includes money for the israeli military and advanced weapon systems despite the growing horrors that the world is witnessing. you see, there is a twisted and troubling logic that is at play here. american taxpayer dollars are being spent all over this war.

israel is using american made fighter planes to drop american made bombs on the palestinian people who we are in turn receiving, who are returning u.s. aid paid by for tax dollars to stay alive. united states has been israel's principal arm supplier, protector and security umbrella since the country's inception. it comes at a time when there is growing concerns where and how the money is being used against the palestinian people. so bad are the violations that axios reported three u.s. officials say secretary of state blinken is expected to announce sanctions against one of israel's known military units because of the conduct and human rights violations in the occupied west bank.

nbc news has not independently confirmed this. you would think israel would be cooperative in making sure the military conduct is in compliance with our laws. instead, the reaction of israeli officials has been to shund the the concerns. the government would act by all means against any such move. israel's president warned the u.s. not to interfere in its internal affairs. and today, israel's defense ministry called secretary of state blinken, and u.s. ambassador to try to prevent these u.s. sanctions from going forward. look. there is nothing wrong with israeli officials telling them to bug off but you can not take our weapons and our tax dollars and work to undermined our security interests and policies. they warned about invading rafah. israel rejected the calls and insisted it will go on with a

rafah operation despite the u.s. concerns. and just this week with the heightened tensions between the two countries israeli finance minister is pushing to start the legalizations process for 68 settlement outposts in the occupied west bank. he is pushing to expand these illegal settlements. now, this would be the most dramatic expansions for the settlement movement in decades according to israel's channel 12 new that reported this last night. settlements undercut one of our own governments efforts at a two state solution. the bottom line is american dollars are funding a war that is going against the united states's own strategic interests. one that bidden and his administration are going to have to answer for. it is his war, not just benjamin netanyahu's. it will be part of his legacy.

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including your memory. join the neuriva brain health challenge. . before the break i discussed a stark split screen. horrific scenes in gaza as there is an aid bill send 26 billion to israel including $4 billion towards their missile defense systems. joining me now to discuss it and more, senior writer and israeli american and american politics. he serves as israel's council. and wrote a book. it is great to have you back on the show. thank you for making time for us. i wanted to start with new comments from the israeli president. he said in an interview today that american political leaders should not intervene in israeli politics and leave it to the israeli public and the body

politic. israel is the largest recipient of foreign aid, wants american leaders to stay out of it. is it a fair request do you think? >> no. it is not a fair request. not only because of what you just said, about receiving $155 billion thought the years. but also because in effect the american administration success of american administrations are not really meddling in israeli politics. you know, if you look at the two countries political system, see that arguably israel is meddling in american politics more than the u.s. is meddling in israeli politics. what israel does not like and that is evident in the president's remarks is to be told what needs to done. the fact of the matter is that the u.s. and i think you said

it just before the break, this has been stated u.s. policy. the two state solution and the resolving the status quo, the unsustainable status quo that the occupation represents. that has been stated american policy since 1967. it is okay even if it is uncomfortable for some israelis it is okay for the u.s. to state its own policy. that is not considered meddling. it is very, you know, pumping the chest kind of remark. they will not tell us what to do and we will not, we are not the 51st star on the flag. all right, we heard that before. come on. let's move on. >> let me ask you about when israel does not respond to american concerns what happens? right now we are beginning to see that. again, three officials with knowledge are telling axios they are weighing sanctions against israeli military unit

for alleged human rights violations. that is unprecedented. but, as you just said, when the government ignores it leaves america with no other options. how do you square that? we are giving billions of military aid that we want to potentially sanction? >> reporter: i know it is not a word in english but it is unareaable. you unsquarable. the sanctions that will be applied on one battalion. operating in the west bank, that is not, that is not a policy. that is a lull. that is part of the former senator's law which we can not, an amendment in 2008. not getting in the legal history that say law that says the u.s. will prohibit any

cooperation with or assistance to military or police units that are violating international human rights laws. it began, by the way, in the context of narcotics and drug in the late '90s. the extension or expansion into foreign assistance act is what we are seeing now. but, that, that, going back to your question, that is not policy. here, here is the strange hinge about this. i understand why the u.s. is doing this. on the assumption that the betting process and the investigation led them to think that israel allegedly or this particular battalion violated human rights laws. that is fine. but this battalion has a brigade above it. that brigade has a central command. the central command has a chief of staff and he answers to a government represented by the

defense minister that has a prime minister. so, what the u.s. was doing here is i am sorry to say it is a cop out. if you have an issue with the occupation, quote unquote, if you have an issue with the policies take it with the political people. he has not made, and i hope he won't for other reasons but that is for a different conversation, he has not made the transition between rhetoric and policy. he condemned israel. he is concerned about what israel is doing. blinken warns israel. secretary of defense lloyd austin is employing. that is not policy that is rhetoric. >> let me ask you about what you wrote in your latest piece. you out lined some of the decisions in recent weeks including the killing of hamas leader's three sons and grand children and benjamin netanyahu announce there is a date for an

attack on rafah. you write that recklessness has become the policy of choice. explain to us if you can, we can talk about it for hours but explain to us that benjamin netanyahu is reckless in his decision-making. >> i always think he has been reckless in his decision- making. foreign policy and defense record he has been a consistent and a serial failure. his policies on iran, his policies with palestinians, his policy on managing the relations with the u.s. going back decades, not going back weeks or months into the point where the war began and he has always been reckless. for him it is always about confrontation, politics. you know, whatever is of that moment.

it is never about planning t is never about strategy. never about setting obtainable or deliveriable objectives. it is only about, it is only reactive. since the war began it has become reckless. when i wrote about the recklessness i referred specifically to gaza but that very same day israel struck the iranian building or the an exto the consulate in domascus with pinpoint precision, so how did it miss the aid workers in gaza. and how did he get his sons. you want to hill him? that is fine. but what is the point of hitting a convoy? that is the reckless and done with immunity and impunity. i am okay with the war on

hamas. let there be no misunderstanding. but it lacks, it lacks any grand design. >> we can talk about it for hours and i am sure we will have you back on the show to discuss it hopefully by then the war will be over in some way, shape ear form for everyone's sake. always a pleasure. thank you very much, sir. >> my pleasure. after this, here at home, some states are following texas'lead when it comes to controversial law, we will tell you about that controversial law, we will tell you about that nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults.

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will change the federal government's authority on immigration policies. senate filed a documented immigrants and criminalizes a person to be in the state if they were previously deported or denied entry into the country. never mind the fact that idaho is 900 miles away from the border. now, joining us global refuge president and ceo and former white house director for first ahead michelle obama. how concerned are you in the spreading of this bill including to the ones that are nowhere near mexico? >> deeply concerned. we were worried there would be a domino effect and clearly what we are seeing is that going into an election cycle immigrants are used as political pawns. we are deeply troubled with the

dynamic and what it means. each state allows immigration laws we will have complete and utter chaos. >> how unconstitutional do you think sb-4 and other bills that are very, variants of it are? >> reporter: i think that the courts will weigh in, i think they will be struck down just as we saw years ago when arizona passed a show your papers law. the reality is that when it comes to immigration a unified approach is not just essential for maintaining order, fairness, the integrity of our nation's laws but that is why we have the clause of the u.s. constitution. so, i do believe that the courts will deem these both illegal and unconstitutional. but, also, they are impractical. law enforcement will have difficulties immigranting them and migrants will have a chilling effect where they will not be willing to come forward and report crimes to be helpful. and then of course this is

going to have a significant impact on economies because we have seen when states when they have it, the immigrants know the chaos they will have on their lives and we will see migrants choose to go elsewhere. >> this comes as texas'sb-4 faces backlash. it was blocked after the supreme court allowed the bill to go into effect. what are the chances that this new iowa bill will face the same push back? >> i think we will expect to see that. that is the dynamic that we have seen so far. obviously clear precedent now that, you know, judges will be able to weigh in on. ultimately, i would not be surprised if this goes to the supreme court. but my hope is that, you know, states like texas, iowa, who have, you know, really under

taken political grandstanding. it is imhumane to inhuman. i am sure you have seen kim reynolds, deployed the national guard for the crack down and made several trips to the u.s./mexico border in the last few years. why all of these theatrics for a state that is almost 8,000 miles away from the border? i mean, the cynic in me wants to say maybe she is auditioning for a position in a future trump administration. >> reporter: well, i will not weigh into the politics if it is an audition but i will say that it is unusual when you are seeing states that are far in the interior who seem like they want to participate in kind of

this political game we are seeing. troubling because obviously we know it is top issue. going in presidential. the reality is, even today there is an op-ed showing 1,100 counties in the u.s. would be experiencing decline. population in decline but for immigration. smart for a country to do and counties facing the lowest birthrate. our economy needs these workers and we need to stop putting in the policies. >> that is an important point as well. thank you very much, greatly appreciate your time. after the break, what the outrage over basketball star caitlin clark's salary tells us about a cultural shift when it comes to women's sports culturat comes to women's sports called td, tardive dyskinesia,

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is already making glaring mistakes. it made up something called wnba? iowa's final four game was the most watched women's college game ever where 14.2 million viewers, beating the previous record by 14.2 million viewers. so, basketball super star caitlin clark calling out michael on snl who, by the way is wrong about the popularity of women's basketball. earlier this month, 18.9 million viewers tuned into the ncaa women's basketball final when south carolina beat clark's iowa hawkeyes. it is the first time viewership was larger for the women's than the men. it is the most watched basketball game of any kind in the past five years. that actually includes the nba. in fact, excluding the olympics it was the most sporting match of any kind since 2019 in the u.s. now, a big part of that

draw was caitlin clark. she is considered one of the greatest college players ever. a two time player of the year for leading score for both men and women. she say household name. fans tuned in again this week when clark was selected as the number one pick in the wnba draft. excitement turned to outrage when they learned that clark's base salary for this season, wait for it. $76,000. that is a sliver of the $12 million the nba's top pick made this season. many pointed out this pay gap comes from the different revenue totals. we are here today to challenge that notion. those numbers speak to a larmer question how much society values women's sports. joining me now sports journalist davidson and sports editor. great to have both of you with us. i will start you with you and your collum.

you noted women's basketball is still undervalued. talk to us about that with the pay gap outrage with caitlin clark's salary. the default is economics. women's sports do not push in as much. i reject it and can make the case for it but why do you think that as well? >> first of all i do think women's sports did pull in less revenue. >> yes. factual correct >> but, because they do not pull in the same revenue they don't deserve the same level of salaries and wnba players are not fighting for that but are arguing for their fair share. it brings in $2 million. and nba $10 billion. they are set in the collective bargaining agreement. an agreement between the union and the league that is how it works in every sport. now, as a share of revenue, the

nba players get 51% of all basketball-related income. all revenues, 50% of all revenues go to nba. in wnba, 50% of incrumental revenue. that means revenue above certain growth that the league set. how it translates, wnba players only ref 9 or 10% of total league revenue. that is where you see all of the disparity from. >> i appreciate you breaking it down. that is why i wanted you to be on the show to explain the economics for us. you heard dave joking that no one watches women's sports and common to hear similar comments from male sports fans. how do the sorts of assumptions contribute to the gender inequities in pro sports? and, will it change with high visible and high profile athletes like caitlin clark? >> it is about marginalization. it is about how it is covered.

when you go to the big networks they are not covered in the same ways. what makes caitlin clark and the phenomenal that is caitlin clark so important and what makes this moment a pivot point is they were breaking through that glass booth if you can say. that soundproof glass booth where women have been saying for over a generation. we have an amazing product here. we need to get coverage for it. study after study after study shows they were not getting the same kind of shine as men's sports. that is the pivot point we are at right now and that is what we have to be vigilant about. to go and say if it will change things in terms of salaries and terms of the structure to make sure the women are paid what they are worth. i think we have to way for the cba that was talked about when that comes up in 2025. what we know about the history of men's sports and the history of women's sports is that people don't get paid their

fair share without struggle. that means strikes, that means rallies, that means op eds in newspapers and confronting the league itself to do what they have said. the star for the vegas acees. we don't want to get paid the same amount as the men what we want is the same amount of revenue percentage wise that the men get the gap between 50% and 9-10% is huge. >> shameful one. >> and i wanted to talk to you about how the athletes are platform. it is the culture that we create. wilson, the best player for one of the greatest basketball teams ever, but nike has not given her a signature shoe. of course, lebron james comes to mind. given almost $90 million out of high school before playing a single nba game. his high school games were televised because of the environment built around him. how does the way women and the way that they are marketed to

the general public contribute to the popularity gap between men and women sports in we don't platform women culturally the same way we do men. >> that is absolutely the biggest problem here and has been frankly for decades. people have taken to twitter to point it out in 1983 that women first ever national title game garnered $12 million people. the '92 final four, 8 million people watched. we have seen the numbers but cbs and other media outlets chosen not to build on that. that has changed now. these are issues people have been talking about forever. as dave points out. it is the entire eco-system, the promotion, the time the games are on. the channel these games are on. if people can find them. if you have the same level of coverage on line. so, that absolutely contributes to if we can build on these moments the interest has been there but the access to these

athletes and to the sports have not. >> if i want to buy a caitlin clark jersey now i will be able to find it but can i find an xl. >> you might not be able to find it now. nike announced they are already sold out. they did not make enough of these caitlin clark jerseys for demands. they are delayed until august. something we have seen time and time again with women's sports. wnb exparks saw them with the women's national soccer jerseys. these are mistakes that are continuing to happen and frustrating >> an important point. let me ask you quickly, david, about caitlin clark, ticket prices, indiana fever, how do you see clark's popularity translating now in the wnba. can we make sure the new fans will follow her when the competition evolves there? >> i think so. what we are looking at right now is whether or not it is a moment for women's basketball or if we are seeing a movement

towards women's basketball by matses of people. i think it is going to be the latter. we are going to look back on 2024 as a moment and a movement where women's basketball finally bust through and slam dunks the competition. the best ball being played right now is on the women's side of the legger >> no doubt about that. a lot of good story lines if everybody can just kind of highlight them and bring them out for people to get behind. exciting competitions that will be taking place in the wnba this year and i will be watching it as well. thank you to the both of you. thank you at home for making time for us. watch ayman every saturday and sunday at 7:00 p.m. eastern. and follow us. make sure to tune in tomorrow starting at 10:00 eastern for opening statements of trump's new york criminal trial on msnbc until we meet again. msnbc until we meet again.

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. welcome to prime time weekend. i'm nicole wa