these are very specific attacks that most americans do not know the names -- >> we do know. >> reporter: we do know. having the republican speaker of the house there yesterday, as a revolving door of trump loyalty. in 2015 it was michael cohen by donald trump side and mike johnson was questioning whether donald trump had morality to be president of the united states. fast forward eight years and it is michael cohen on the stand testifying against donald trump and mike johnson defending him. >> i am eager to see if kristi noem and the ghost of her dog, cricket, show up tomorrow. who can know. vaughn hillyard, thank you for burning the midnight oil before you had to court tomorrow morning. that is it for our show this evening. now it is time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening. >> good evening, alex. joe biden is facing a challenge in the upcoming debates that no

presidential debate or in history has ever faced. nothing even close to it and it is one that could create a gigantic challenge for joe biden. he may not be able to say anything about donald trump's indictments during these debates and that is a prospect no one has considered yet. andrew weissmann will consider it for us in the discussion coming up. >> let's talk about wednesday, the codeword, maybe. ask if that is legal. i'm going to be watching. >> we will check. thanks, alex. >> have a good show. >> thank you. donald trump's red necktie friends who alex was talking about came to the manhattan criminal courthouse this week to praise one of the criminal defendants in the building and attacked district attorney evan bragg, who donald trump falsely accuses of spending all of his time and resources on the prosecution of donald trump. >> people versus harvey weinstein. we are moving forward in that

matter. we intend to retry it and those of you in court saw that the court set a window for a trial in the fall. so we are already moving forward with that matter. having conversations with survivors, considering their well-being and pursuing justice. we are here now because the work of the office goes on in so many ways, as those of you who cover the office no the breadth of our work and that work continues. we have the expertise and resources to take on tough cases, while driving down crime, alongside our law enforcement partners. that includes over the past two years driving shootings down 40% in manhattan. murders down 17%. burglary down 31% and overall crime down 7% outpacing the citywide decline of 0.6%.

>> that is a tiny sample of the work that district attorney evan bragg is doing every day with his team of more than 500 prosecutors, handling more than 35,000 active cases every morning. if those republican candidates for vice president really support law enforcement, they would have come to new york to congratulate alvin bragg. just when you thought a presidential debate that includes donald trump could not become more ridiculous, it has. president joe biden will be debating donald trump with one hand tied behind his back, legally. donald trump will, in the debate studio, will be claiming that every criminal prosecution donald trump faces is being run by joe biden. donald trump says that every day. everyone has heard that before and we will hear it again on the debate stage and the moderators will do nothing to contradict that, because in

their traditional view that will be joe biden's job. debate moderators will use the standard playbook of allowing the other candidate to answer accusations made by the opposing candidate, but what will joe biden be able to say about the prosecutions of donald trump? maybe nothing. because presidents not named trump never comment on pending criminal cases. prior to donald trump the most famous and possibly only instance we had of this was when richard nixon said in 1970 that charles manson was guilty of mass murder in the hollywood hills of actress sharon tate and seven other people. >> i know for example the coverage of the charles manson case when i was in los angeles. front page every day of the papers. it usually got a couple of minutes in the evening news. here is a man who is guilty, directly or indirectly, of eight murders without reason.

>> the problem was charles manson wasn't guilty yet. president nixon said that in the middle of the manson family trial and criminal defense lawyers ask for a mistrial because of the presidents on flu influence on the jury. nixon made the statement before boarding air force one in denver to fly to washington and as soon as the plane landed, white house staff issued this written statement by the president of the united states. to set the record straight, i do not know and did not intend to speculate as to whether the defendants are guilty, in fact, or not. all of the facts in the case have not yet been presented. defendants should be presumed to be innocent at this stage of their trial. the next day at the defense table, defendant manson held up for the jury a los angeles times headline saying manson

guilty, nixon declares. the new york times reported one of the prosecutor said you could only assume that the manson defense counsel brought the paper in with his books and the district attorney complained that the lawyers had done that and asked for the manson lawyers to be penalized for doing that and then while all of that was going on there was a very strong chance that there could be a mistrial in this case. the judge had to personally question each juror and the judge asked each juror to swear under oath that they would be able to reach a verdict based solely on the evidence presented in the courtroom. joe biden remembers the two

days in 1970 when the president of the united states almost derailed charles manson's murder trial. everyone in high school or older in the united states at that time remembers. joe biden is a more careful person and a more careful lawyer than richard nixon. joe biden has not said anything about the overwhelming evidence against donald trump and the criminal charges he faces for violations of the espionage act and illegal possession of classified material. joe biden has said nothing about the overwhelming evidence in the indictment of donald trump in washington, d.c. for conspiracy against the united states of america, conspiracy to defraud the united states of america by changing the a loads -- changing the results of the election. joe biden has said nothing about georgia, where donald trump was recorded on the phone

demanding that the georgia secretary of state change the vote count in the election. any other candidate running for president against donald trump could attack donald trump in a presidential debate on any one of those cases as long as the candidate running against donald trump was not the president of the united states. news coverage of donald trump has worn out the word unprecedented, but here we are tonight at the end of a full day of news coverage of what will be the biden trump debates and the news media still has not even realized how unprecedented those debates will be this time because of the criminal indictments facing donald trump. there will be a nominee in the debate facing at least three indictments who will already be convicted or found not guilty in an earlier trial happening now in new york city.

if there is a hung jury and the district attorney announces he is going to pursue a retrial on those charges, then joe biden won't be able to talk about that case either. a so-called debate that was already going to be ridiculous is going to be even more preposterous. it will be the theater of the absurd. joe biden won't just have one hand tied behind his back, he will be put in a legal straitjacket and the unfair benefit to donald trump is enormous. joe biden is a good lawyer who could rip up donald trump in a debate, just talking about the criminal indictments against donald trump alone. instead, we will see the latest version of the standard tv debate format, which is already problematic to the point of absurdity. i have seen every televised

debate in presidential history. that is how few of them there have been. most presidents were elected without debating anyone. that is how unnecessary presidential debates are. i was a little kid sitting on the floor of the living room in boston watching the very first televised presidential debate between vice president richard nixon and that austin boy, senator john fitzgerald kennedy. i was in college the next time they had a presidential debate, 16 years later in 1976, between gerald ford and jimmy carter. televised debates are not a mandatory part of presidential campaigning. they are a show created by and for television. they did not exist before television. no one thought they were necessary. the historically famous lincoln douglas debates were not

presidential debates. they were debates for an illinois senate campaign, which abraham lincoln lost. the television version of debate doesn't actually test presidential skills and the rooms where presidents govern, they are never told they only have two minutes to respond to what someone just said in that room. presidents never have to make decisions alone. presidents always have expert advice available to them, as much advice as they want or need. no one has ever run into the oval office and said mister president, you have 30 seconds to respond, never. and they never will. nothing presidential is actually being tested in the phony debates that the television industry pretends are invaluable, because they are very good for the television industry. candidates standing alone on the debate stage answering

questions about how they will govern is an entirely fictional television construct of how presidents actually do their work. you don't need to remember everything about the tax code or the weight of missiles or social security trust funds all the time when your president. if a president struggles to remember a name or number in the oval office, no one snaps at him. no one panics. no one thinks the president is losing it. every professional working with the president, a serious president, knows that every president not named trump has the largest range of governing information and responsibility in his head of anyone in that room. everything from agriculture policy to the latest terrorist threat. if the faa director comes into the oval office to talk about the stress of overburdened air-

traffic controllers, the faa director expects to know and should know a lot more than the president knows about that particular subject. that is why he is there, to help the president. but if, say, when the faa director is walking into the oval office he sees the cia director leaving, the faa director should assume that she's talking to a president who might be distracted by something much more serious and darker that he just heard from the cia director, then what the faa director is therefore. but the television debate turns on the childish notion that the president is supposed to know everything all the time about everything and he is supposed to state the most important points about everything in two minutes to an audience that has a tiny fraction of

understanding of what a knowledgeable, serious president knows. what you want is a president who can think and they almost never have to think quickly, so you want a president who can deliberate and think quickly. they absolutely never have to think alone. what you want is a president who demonstrated the ability to find the best choice in the agonizing presidential situations of having no good choice. none of the presidential debate moderators, all of whom are very good at their work, have ever seen a presidential decision made. they have never been in the room where that happens, when it happens. they have never seen a presidential decision on its way to being made. they have no idea how many weeks or years of thinking by the president and the people around him shape to that

presidential decision that is announced to them in a white house press briefing. that is in no way a criticism of the moderators announcement today for the debates, each of whom will do a better job than i could do in that situation. but there is nothing the moderators can do to fix the conceptual flaw in the notion of televised presidential debates. the flaw that was there at the birth in 1960 when the television business decided to pretend that the presidential debate could be a window into how the potential president would actually do his work. joe biden started it all this morning with this. >> donald trump lost to debates to me in 2020. since then he has not shown up for a debate. now he is acting like he wants

to debate me again. make my day, pal. i will even do it twice. let's pick the dates, donald. i hear you are free on wednesdays. >> that was at 8:00 a.m. and joe biden announced i've received and accepted an invitation for a debate on june 27. over to you, donald. as you said, anywhere, anytime, anyplace. half an hour later donald trump accepted the june 27 cnn debate invitation and then an hour later donald trump posted on social media his accepting a september 10 invitation for an abc television debate. two minutes later joe biden officially accepted the abc debate invitation and a tweet. the biden campaign laid down a set of conditions for debates this morning. debates should be one-on-one, allowing voters to compare the only two candidates with any statistical chance of prevailing in the electoral college and not squandering debate time on candidates with no prospect of becoming president.

the moderators should be selected by the broadcast hose from among their regular personnel so as to avoid a ringer or partisan. there should be firm time limits for answers and alternate turns to speak, so that the time is evenly divided and we have an exchange of views, not a spectacle of mutual interruption. a candidates microphone should only be active when it is his turn to speak, to promote adherence to the rules and orderly proceedings. good luck with that. leading off our discussion tonight is andrew weissmann, former chief of the criminal division of the eastern district of new york. he is a msnbc legal analyst and co-author of the best-selling book, the trump indictments. thank you very much for joining us tonight. as soon as i heard about the debates this morning i began to wonder. i thought about richard nixon

talking about charles manson, who you could not say was guilty if you were president of the united states and i started to wonder what, if anything, can the president of the united states in these debates say about his opponents indictments? >> okay, so here is what i think is off-limits and here is what i think is within limits. i leave to others the strategic call about whether to do it. looking at sort of what you can do. so, first, cases that have been, criminal cases and civil cases that have been concluded are clearly within the limits. donald trump can be attacked or ask questions and joe biden can talk about civil fraud. sexual assault. the criminal contempt. the 10 counts of criminal contempt that were found by the sitting judge right now. all of that is concluded, so all of that is fair game.

now there is a norm you referred to which is for ongoing criminal cases. there is a norm, not a law, but a norm that you should not talk about them and i am sure that joe biden is going to adhere to that. his whole point is the department of justice should have its own separate being. it should make its own separate decisions and the president should not be directing who should be charged and who should not be charged and weighing in on those criminal cases. that is contrasts not just to richard nixon. i want to remind you of something that is a little bit close to me, which is when the paul manafort jury was out, donald trump had no problem weighing in on paul manafort and what a great guy he was and that is one of the 10 enumerated ways in which we suggested in the mueller report that was listed as one of 10

ways in which you could find obstruction of justice by the then sitting president. so he does not adhere to those norms, but i do think that joe biden will. now one final point. i think that the underlying facts of a case can be talked about, meaning just because donald trump has been indicted in connection with the january 6 case doesn't mean you cannot ask questions about it and joe biden camps say you agree that the election was not stolen? what were you doing on january 6 and why did you let it happen? did you say it was okay for your vice president to be hanged? why didn't you take any action? why do you insist on freeing people who have been convicted? aren't you in favor of law and order? some of the people you are in favor of releasing have been convicted not just of participation in the assault on the capital, but assault on

police officers. there is a litany of underlying facts that are fair game to ask him about. just because he has been indicted doesn't mean he doesn't have to answer in a political debate, questions about those facts. >> we will have much more to say about this as debates approach, including what to judge cannon might pounce on if joe biden says anything about that case in the debate. andrew weissmann, thank you for joining us tonight. we will see you tomorrow night with trial coverage right here. thank you very much. joining us now is simon rosenberg, long time democratic strategist. simon, here is the debate. joe biden got out in front to be the one who started the whole thing. he issued the challenge. he issued the specific points on the calendar where he wanted to do it and got pretty much everything he demanded and wanted at 8:00 a.m. this morning. >> i think this was a really

good day for biden. he looked like a strong and decisive leader. he wants to have a debate. we have this reality where we don't have this long primary. the election is decided very early. we are sitting around for six months and what we said is let's get on with it. it is good for the american people to engage early in this process, not wait to the end of december and i think this is a very smart move for our democracy, frankly, and for the biden campaign itself. i think the theory of the case that we have is as people start to check in and realize it is really donald trump and really joe biden, that things will get better for us. we are beginning the process of engaging the american people earlier in this very consequential decision they have to make in november. >> we will see what power shutting off the microphones has if that is the rule that

prevails. of course donald trump will keep yelling over the dead microphone while joe biden is trying to talk. >> look, i think that the other theory from biden world is that we know from our polling and public polling and private polling, that people don't know a lot about what joe biden has done. when they learn his numbers go up. they also don't know a lot about what donald trump has done since 2020. there are things that andrew said are fair game. the facts of cases. let's go through it really quickly. these six things that biden will decide which of these he can go into, but we know know that donald trump raped e. jean carroll in a dressing room. we know that he still america's secrets and share them with other people and lied to the fbi about it. we know that he led an insurrection against the united states, an armed attack on the capital. we know that he has corruptly

taken more money from governments than any family in american history and he is also singly responsible for ending row. those six things alone are new information that voters don't know because they are all new since 2020. it will be very important that we share with the american people and i think that those six things and whatever they decide they are allowed to legally go into, as andrew said, that is facts on the ground. none of that has to do with legal cases and i think there is a confidence that when we tell our story and tell his story that things will get better for us and we will win the election. >> simon rosenberg, thank you much for joining us again tonight. last night in maryland it was election night. donald trump once again lost 20% of the republican presidential primary vote to a candidate who stopped running more than two months ago. the biggest winner on the democratic side of the maryland primary was angela alsobrooks, who won a hotly contested primary for senate after being outspent nearly 10 to 1. the

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larry hogan wants to make ted cruz a senate committee chairman. larry hogan wants republicans to win back the senate so that tim scott can become the committee chairman. if not he wants lindsey graham to become the next chairman of the judiciary committee. larry hogan wants rand paul to be chairman of homeland security and once marco rubio to be chairman of the senate intelligence committee. that is what will happen if maryland elects its popular former governor to the senate to replace senator ben cardin. after last night's democratic primary in maryland, larry hogan now knows who he is running against. >> the fight i had will not be easy.

there are a lot of people in our state to say, you know, it is maryland. it is a blue state. we can worry about another race someplace else. that is what people say who are looking at us tonight. no, what we know is that maryland has been a blue state, but it will only stay a blue state if we put in the work. because larry hogan is the ff -- is bff with mitch mcconnell. >> in addition to strong democratic party support, angela alsobrooks also has the support of her daughter, alexandra. >> angela alsobrooks is my mom, but that's not all. >> she built to new schools. >> she also invested in healthcare. >> and helped bring the fbi headquarters to maryland. >> as she is running for senate.

>> and kapp the cost of prescription drugs. >> and also stand up for a woman's right to choose. >> angela alsobrooks, she will fight for us. >> i am angela alsobrooks and i approve this message. >> joining us now in the winner's circle is angela alsobrooks, democratic candidate for senate in maryland. thanks for joining us and congratulations on the big win. you have endorsements through your position as county executive, in a county by the way that is bigger than some states and population, but you also were outspent massively and were still able to pull this off. >> yes, thank you so much for having me. it is a wonderful feeling. a wonderful day. >> what do you expect to be the most important issue between you and larry hogan in the campaign? >> there are many policy issues. the issue of choice is the one i hear most about.

i have an 18-year-old daughter and like so many i am concerned about her right to privacy and freedom. the right to make her own decisions about her body. this is an issue that is not only important to so many women, but also to men, fathers and grandfathers who want their daughters to have more rights than their mothers and grand mother's and not fewer. this is another issue that i believe will be the issue in this election. the supreme court is an issue as well. sensible gun legislation. economic opportunity. there are many issues but i believe the policy differences will be the issues that divide us and ultimately marylanders want to keep the senate blue. >> and larry hogan has had his differences publicly with drum from time to time. as a republican senator he would be doing everything that the majority republican senate

could do to support donald trump. >> this is right. we saw that mitch mcconnell was the person who invited larry hogan to this race. we also know that larry hogan would be voting with his caucus. he has already shown himself to be a person who does not support choice. a person who vetoed important legislation that would have expanded abortion care in the state and we know he will be voting with the republican caucus, which by the way and a party that is led by donald trump. >> you are now targeted by republicans because they have high hopes of winning that seat in maryland so they can get a majority in the senate. >> this is a state where i have built a strong grassroots coalition across the state. i have enjoyed talking to voters where they are across the state, not only about my own record, but a positive vision for our state and i find

that the issues that tie us around economic opportunity, safe communities where people can feel safe and be safe in their communities and the issue of choice and so many other issues are resonating with marylanders and ultimately i believe that the policy positions i've taken and one's consistent with the democratic party are also consistent with the values of marylanders and they will vote, i know, to keep maryland blue and keep the democratic party in the majority. >> angela alsobrooks, thank you very much for joining us on your first night as nominee. >> thank you. listen, follow me and thank you so much for having me on the show. >> inc. you. coming up, a rich republican is hoping to buy a senate seat in montana. senator jon tester has something to say about that. he will join us next.

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if you are a rich republican who wants to be a united states senator, your easiest bet is to move to a heavily republican state that somehow still has a democratic senator end-user wealth to try to buy that seat. that is the strategy of a rich republican who has never run for office before and opened a campaign headquarters in montana, 1000 miles away from where he spent most of his life in minnesota, to try to win

democrat jon tester seat in the senate, which would give republicans control of the senate, meaning control of the appointment of federal judges and legislation. this is not the first time jon tester has had to face a challenge from a rich republican who moved to montana. the miracle of how jon tester manages to get elected in the republican state of montana seems to be explained by montana voters voting for the man, not the party. when jon tester's name is on the ballot. jon tester is the only member of the united states senate who could produce a campaign ad quite like this. >> i am jon tester. i am a third generation dirt farmer who happens to be your u.s. senator. i grew up on the land my grandparents homesteaded over 100 years ago and since i was eight years old i knew i wanted to take over the farm. when i was nine years old i

lost three fingers in the meatgrinder. i was appear grinding. i don't remember sticking my hand in, but i remember bringing it out. montana might be changing, but i haven't. we still get up early and work hard until the job is done, because that is what montanans do and that is why i am fighting to protect public lands, defend freedoms, support public education and lower costs for hard-working montanans. i will always stand up to anyone to defend montana, you have my word. >> joining us now is montana senator tester, writing days running for reelection. breaking news, another democrat agreed to a debate today. the jon tester senate debate, scheduled for june 9. you agreed to it today and scheduled it ahead of joe biden. >> look, i think anytime you can have a debate totally unscripted, i think it is a good opportunity for the people

of, this case, montana, to see the candidates side by side and make a determination on who will protect their freedoms. who will stick up for veterans? who will make sure public lands are protected and will make sure we continue to support public education, which is critically important? >> montana voters know you well, but every six years there are new voters. there are a bunch of people who turned 18 and over since the last time you ran. there are new residents moving into the state. what story do they need to know about you that some of them might not know. >> they need to know who i am and where i've come from. my family has been in the state for over 100 years. my folks work hard and took it over in the 40s. agriculture is a big part of montana. making sure that montana values and montana way of life is protected is important. people oftentimes want to change montana into the place

they came from. montana is the greatest state that ever existed. we want to make sure that those montana values are protected. >> we have issues that many senators never need to think about or do think about and one of them for example his postal service. i can't remember the last time i heard the postal service come up for a senator in a senate debate. >> the postal service is important for the whole country, but particularly rural america and montana. we have a postmaster general who wants to basically ruin our postal service and make it so you can't depend on the postal service to get important things like prescription drugs and everything else. the works. i really object to what the postmaster has done to the postal service. look, the customer is always right. so you don't reduce service to

get more customers, you increase service. we have seen the postmaster continue time and time again to shut down facilities and not understand distance. he wants to shut down a facility in missoula. he is doing it in other states. shift hundreds of miles over two passes. that does not work for montanans and it doesn't work for the postal service. we need the postal service and need it to do its job to deliver things on time, in a timely manner. process and facilities that delay the delivery of mail. >> i remember being outraged when the mailbox at the end of my street suddenly disappeared some years ago and i had to go, i don't know, a mile or less to the next mailbox. in montana the odds of you having a mailbox at the end of the street are pretty slim. >> not only that but the

standard of delivery has changed because of previous closures of processing centers. this has extended out further. my case on a good day, i have to go a mile and a mile back. if we keep that service it is important for economic growth and families and businesses to live in montana, so it is an important issue. >> senator jon tester who gives us a real picture of american life in a way that no other senator can, thank you for joining us. >> i have to say of folks want to help me out, go to jon tester.com. thank you, lawrence. >> thank you, senator. coming up, i have admired no congressional correspondent more than luke russert, who surprised us all one day when he decided to quit his job at nbc news and go off in search of the world and what the world

could search them. the new york times best-selling book helps us see the world and our families in a way that we might not without that wonderful book. it is now in paperback. luke russert will join us next. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. why choose a sleep number smart bed? can i make my side softer? i think some of them i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 36 months. shop now at sleepnumber.com children are the greatest joy and our best hope for a better future.

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when i was deep in the throes of writing the first draft of look for me there, full of self- doubt but also stubborn determination, before i ever dreamed of a publishing deal or becoming a best-selling author, a woman who is now my fiance asked a simple question. why are you writing this? tens and a bit touchy, i blurted out a passionate answer that came to be my guiding light during the writing process. i don't care if this thing ends up in the bargain book box at a gas station and sells 10 copies. if some kid who lost their dad finds it and it helps them feel a little less lost, well, that's the best reward i could ever have. that's what i'm trying to do. >> luke russert, the only child of the great meet the press host tim russert and the brilliant journalist maureen north got his start in tv news

at a much younger age than his father did. within a few months of starting the job, luke russert was delivering, what were, for me, the best reports of congressional action on capitol hill available on television. when reading an advanced copy of luke's book, look for me there, grieving my father, finding myself, luke russert's writing, beautiful writing, and his wisdom, and the way he opened his heart and mind to the world in backpack travel all over the planet left me in all. for a deskbound anchorman, luke russert's book, the perfect father's day gift, took me to far-off places in this world that i will never see. but i can almost feel i have been there, and learned a lot along the way. thanks to luke. joining us now, luke russert, his best-selling book, look for me there, grieving my father, finding myself has just been released in paperback. luke, thank you very much, it's

nice to finally see you. >> thank you for having me. >> the afterword is such a beautiful addition to what was already such a powerful piece of writing. >> when i wrote the book i thought i was really writing for my own generation, millennial's. the kid who lost their father. then i realized there were a lot of older people who lost a parent, as well, who have never been able to go and process that grief. so i got letters from people in their 60s, 70s, 80s, even 90s. multiple letters from people in their 90s, and the common connective tissue through all of those was, you know, i ignore something for a very long time. i never really went and did a full on grief journey. it is something that hung over me or something that had always been there. and i was able to read your book and finally realize i am not alone. there is a whole community of us out there. the earlier you realize that, the earlier, that you are not alone, that there are a lot of

us who carry this weight all the time and we are all trying to get to that place of peace, the better it is. the faster the healing could start. don't wait until you are 97, 98. >> i was so glad when i read that passage about your ambition was just can i help one person with this book? because what i loved was when i read that, i already knew that you had helped thousands of people with this story. and those of us who haven't suffered a tragedy similar to that, just reading about your relationship with maureen, with your mother, the way can have a frayed edges, the way all family relationships can have a frayed edges and angry moments, and then you see these same two people who were arguing back here on page 97 in this wonderful moment 10 pages later, and it is life. it is the way we live, it's the way we live with family and with everyone we know. >> a lot of people reached out to me and they said, you know, i have often found myself waking up at some point later on in my life thinking was my career a big mistake?

is that really what i wanted to do? is it okay to have a radical shift? is it okay to do something completely differently? and one of the things i talk about that i learned from my readers is that you really have to have some forgiveness. there are a lot of people who don't forgive themselves. they either feel that their lost loved ones would want them to do something so they have to keep doing it, or that their family is depending on them to do something so they have to keep doing it. and there is a lot of truth to that. you should be dutiful. but there is also a point of hey, if i'm not doing okay, if this is not my path, it's all right to change no matter how old you are. and i was really touched by people who did career shifts in their 60s and 70s, as well. it's amazing. >> you have the soul of an explorer, and that becomes apparent right away, in the first couple pages of this book. before we know how far a journey we are going. we begin in the maine woods, not that exotic. but farther away than you think, first of all. and we end up in places on this

planet that are amazing. and that is all you, the adventurer. >> i realized that to really figure out who i was, i had to get out of this bubble that i had grown up in washington, d.c., away from the last name, the privilege, and politics, and challenge myself to go out in the world and get to experience it. and my mother was a peace corps volunteer in the 1960s in columbia. she taught me if you can measure yourself up against the wall, but yourself in places where you don't know the language, you don't know the culture, and get and get on, you will really are learnable a lot of important life lessons. i went to six continents, and it was such an incredible journey. but i came out of it knowing that we are a lot more likely all different, and we are better to explore this differences and come back more whole. >> thank you very much for coming back with this. it really is the perfect father's day gift. the book is titled look for me there, grieving my father, finding myself. luke, thank you. and thank you for the book. we will be right back.

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