her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for.

that is tonight's last word from the courtroom. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. tonight, michael cohen back on the stand, the former president's defense team grills him on a 2016 phone call and paints him as a liar. how today's heated testimony could impact the jury plus a new trump entourage outside the courtroom. how republican antics in new york are risking gop control in washington then new reporting on why some wall street donors may be warming to trump is the 11th hour gets underway on this thursday night. that evening. once again, i am stephanie ruhle. we are now 173 days away from the election and today, outside a manhattan courthouse, people were lined up in the rain hoping to witness the latest developments in donald trump's new york criminal trial. inside the courtroom there is another day of tough cross- examination for michael cohen. defense attorney todd blanche leaned hard into credibility

issues, pressing cohen on his history of lying and his criminal record while accusing him of being out for revenge. blanche also challenged cohen's claim of a crucial phone call with donald trump. >> reporter: tonight, star prosecution witness michael cohen facing a scathing second day of cross-examination as former president trump's defense team tries to paint him as a spurned former employee desperate for payback. the jury, hearing cohen on his podcast appearing in search of vengeance. >> revenge is a dish best served cold and you better believe i want this man to go down and rot inside for what he did to me and my family. >> reporter: tension in the room building to a dramatic moment, trump attorney todd blanche accusing trump of lying -- cohen of lying about his testimony, saying mr. trump's bodyguard passed the phone to

mr. trump on october 24th, 2016 at 8:0 2 pm. cohen said he informed trump at the time the deal the path stormy daniels would be done, blanche today raising his voice, saying that was a lie, showing the jury never before seen text messages suggesting the call was for another purpose entirely. cohen had earlier reached out to schiller for help dealing with a 14-year-old print color and schiller texted back telling cohen to call him. logs show a call on october 24th that lance did -- lasted 94 seconds. the clear implication, the phone was never passed to trump,: appearing blindsided, blanche grilling him. that was a lie. you did not talk to trump.

you talk to keith schiller. you can admit it. cohen responding no, i don't know that is accurate, cohen adding i believe i also spoke to mr. trump about the stormy daniels matter, blanche shooting back we are not asking what you believe. this jury does not want to hear what you think happened. cohen's credibility, key to the states case is he is the only one who is testified the former president had advanced knowledge of the plan to pay off daniels to protect his campaign and then signed off on a scheme to pay cohen back, allegedly falsifying business records to disguise his reimbursements. trump has pleaded not guilty as his defense attorneys have argued nothing was falsified, and once again challenging the prosecutor's theory today that the former president only cared about shielding his campaign from daniels damaging story, blanche pushing cohen about trump's reaction the first time the former president learned of daniel's shopping her story, asking the first thing that trump said to you is that his family would like that very much, cohen saying that is

true. the self-described former truck fixer turned foe maintaining his composure on the stand when pressed at length about his criminal history, cohen has been convicted of lying under oath and disbarred, the defense arguing he has a motivation to lie now, and a history of doing so. quote, you lied under oath, correct? yes, sir, cohen says, the defense today saying cohen is also not telling the full story about his desire for a white house job, which mr. trump never offered him. you were disappointed that after all the work you have done for president trump, nine and half years, nobody offers you a position in the white house. >> that's not accurate, cohen said. >> today was an interesting day, a fascinating day and it shows what a scam this whole thing is. >> cohen is expected to return to the stand when the trial resumes on monday. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel tonight. john allen joins us, tim o'brien is here, bloomberg opinion senior executive editor in trump biographer and msnbc legal analyst krista greenberg, a former federal prosecutor.

tim and kristi were both in court today. based on what it appears you are wearing, i believe you are a ranger super fan. >> yes, go, ranges. >> okay, you are legal counsel, so you get to go first. what stood out to you in today's face-off? >> well, as laura said in your leader, michael cohen is a necessary witness here. he is the only witness thus far who was able to tell us about direct conversations with donald trump where donald trump was not only aware of the hush money payment to stormy daniels but he approved it and reimbursed michael cohen and knew what he was reimbursing them for so those conversations are really important and one of the things todd blanche did successfully was cast doubt on

at least one of those conversations. it was just a misstep from the prosecution, maybe, to not show him these messages to orient him to the specific date of time that happened in 2016. how many people could go through their logs and know exactly a precise date and time of when a call happened? that is really hard to do so i'm surprised he didn't maybe testify a little more broadly about the date and time within this october timeframe, because once you pin it down like that, it's really hard if they have other messages that suggest it may have been about something else. you would expect them to have looked at that and made sure if they were going to pin it down that they knew exactly what they were talking about, and had the full context for it. so, it was a misstep but i will say this is not a hat trick. he clinched the game. the game

is still very much in play. i expect prosecutors will come back on monday and clean some of this up and redirect. >> okay. even if the context of conversation is off to him, they have the documentation. right? ess. i would preface all of this saying no one can predict what the jury is going to do, and you know, we can't get inside the jurors' minds, but it is sitting there today what they said. i think todd blanche is not a great defense attorney. he came into the trump world through boris epshteyn who came into the trump world through eric trump and you have this series of c- players who get donald trump here and he gives him a lot of responsibility they maybe would not have otherwise earned and i think there were other people sitting at trump's

defense table who were much more capable than todd blanche and i think he had a horrible first day of cross. i think he recovered today, but what he went through today was an assault on michael cohen's credibility and i think he established that michael cohen is a serial liar, just like donald trump's. >> okay, but that is the thing. michael cohen was a liar for 10 years at the direction, at the behest of donald trump. like if they wrote a job description, be my thug, mahesh money, my liar, my fixer. that was the job. >> lied to the media if there is a bad story in the works. if i've got business people or business competitors in my way, help me undermine them. if i funded a political foot race and they're coming out saying i slept with women, please put that story in a different place. that was his job and i don't think -- i do think he is an important witness. i think the prosecution has done a good job of establishing

the facts that transcend michael cohen and i don't think the jury has to rely entirely on michael cohen any longer to believe that a crime was committed here. you have allen weisselberg signing invoices with all of the information in his own handwriting, outlining exactly the fraud that took place, and allen weisselberg is not somebody who is ever going to turn on donald trump. he was doing what he was told every day of his life by donald trump, so i think the todd blanche did not tell a narrative to the jurors. he was not thematically coherent in a way that a good defense attorney or prosecutor is capable of doing, standing up in front and just thematically walking them through a story that makes sense to them and

undermines, in this instance, the prosecution's case. >> john, michael cohen's credibility issues are all well- established, as are donald trump's. you've covered trump for years now. how do you view what we all just saw in court? >> that's a great question, stephanie. this is the pitfall of resting a lot of your case or having a star witness be michael cohen, who is perhaps best known at this point for the lies that he told, as you pointed out, many on behalf of donald trump at the problem before the jury, and of course, we don't know how they're going to assess this information, and there is a lot of other information the jury has been given, corroborating material and evidence from david pecker and others as well as the documentation but this is the pitfall of michael cohen, you know. this was a good day for the defense in a bad day for the prosecution and i think that is the first time you can say that

in 18 days of this trial. the jury is going to have a lot to assess. the prosecutor will have a chance to redirect with michael cohen, but you know, todd blanche slipped one past the goalie, to continue the hockey metaphor, and the question is, are the prosecutors going to be able to score a few more? >> i want to go back to the last point you were making, christy. monday, redirect time, is this where the prosecution cleans up that sloppiness from today? what do you expect from them? >> i do think they really need to go back to that day, in particular, that october 24th day for that phone call happens, look at all the messages and look at any other messages that day and see if there is any greater context put forth to put some other evidence there for michael cohen and see if he can explain it. what he said on the record was you know, this is my belief about what happened and todd

blanche rightly said well, the jury doesn't want to know what you think happened. they want to know what you know happened and that is where you really get into danger trying to get things pinpointed from a decade ago with call logs. it is a dangerous thing to do but i think they just need to go back through the evidence and see what they have. the other thing i thought was really damaging, and i am not sure how you recover from this on redirect, is he said, sitting here today in testimony that he still believes that it was a corrupt prosecution that was brought against him federally, not having anything to do necessarily with the campaign-finance obligations but with contact -- conduct that was separate and apart from donald trump, mainly tax fraud and he said look, the prosecutor shouldn't of come

for me. he said he pled guilty in 2018 than a few months ago in a civil fraud trial he said he didn't do it, never evaded his taxes then said he lied during the guilty plea. now today it is, i never disputed the facts, which he clearly did under oath but they shouldn't have come after me. it was a $4 million tax fraud over five years. why shouldn't they have prosecuted that case? i was in that office and supervised prosecuting cases in that realm with that direction and that kind of money. those are serious criminal cases of calling the judge corrupt, which he did on the stand sitting here today not oh, i should not have said that. it was the federal judge was in on it and i believe he is corrupt and he also said you know, he was confronted with his statements about the prosecutors and the judge being f-being animals and there was no legitimization for that. it was blamed the prosecutor and the judge in trump and when you set it out that way, as the defense did today, that is pretty damning because it makes it seem like he's got a problem with everybody and will never take the blame himself, and i'm not really sure how you recover for that on redirect because this is a man who doesn't seem to be able to accept

responsibility for his own conduct. that's a problematic thing to ask a jury to believe somebody who just again, can't really seem to get his story straight. >> we heard and not -- another new name today, robert costello, a former adviser to michael cohen. his name came up a few times in court then showed up on fox news tonight. watch this. >> doing this payment and taking care of this was his way of getting himself back into the good graces of donald trump because he could then go to trump afterwards and say boss, that's what he called them, you know, you could have had a big, embarrassing problem but i, michael cohen, took care of it. >> remind us why this guy is important. i not costello was an ambassador for rudy giuliani when team trump was worried about michael cohen going rogue and they were worried about losing him. >> you said ambassador for rudy giuliani. wow. >> they introduce in court a

letter from costello in which he said, or an email, i guess, to michael cohen st. michael, we love you. you have to understand we love you so do the right thing here and: correctly in his testimony when they said what do you think his motive was, they said they wanted to make sure i didn't flip. and you know, at that point, michael cohen, who desperately didn't want to be loved by the trump family you know, he said earlier he really thought they considered him a member of the family. i guarantee you they never thought he was a member of the family and he had this longing to belong. >> trump sold him that fantasy. >> yes, he sold a lot of people that fantasy and so you know, they did not do the smart work of keeping michael cohen in the

fence before it came to this and then once they let him out and he panicked about costello's the guy saying come back home so for him to appear on fox today saying he can't be trusted, his garbage, you know, he's carrying water for trump again. >> my gosh, john. with everything going on inside the courtroom, trump is still running for president, he is going outside the court room talking to cameras, he is even reading polls. do you think anyone outside the maga world was already all in for trump, other americans out there going well, i heard what trump said today outside the courtroom. he made a good case. i think i'll be voting for that guy. are there independents and swing voters he is talking to when he is out there that he is winning over? >> i'm not sure he is winning people over necessarily with the commentary is making outside the courtroom. if michael cohen had been a member of the trump family, he would've had a job in the trump white house. he should've been able to know

that he could not get a job by ivanka and jared that he's not a member of the family but as far as reaching the swing voters outside the courtroom, i don't think that is what he's doing. however i do believe if he is found not guilty or if there is a hung jury, that will weigh on some of the swing voters in terms of his argument that he has been gone after unfairly. >> i don't know about him getting a job. eric and junior didn't get a job in the white house but trump is really running it so maybe if you are the favorite child, ivanka, yes, there is a job for you, the smart son-in- law but dj, tj, he did not get a job. eric, either. john, tim, kristy, congratulations to your rangers tonight. when we return, another parade of republicans skipped their day jobs. taxpayer dollars to kiss the ring at trump's trial today. this is what is important, how their absence impacted work on the capital and later, after

trump's first term, the biggest names on wall street ready to move on but now, some of them might be ready to come home to trump. the 11th hour just getting underway on a thursday night. ng underway on a thursday night.

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judge merchan is doing his best to keep the trump criminal trial on track but as the trial continues, trumps political entourage has been lining up outside the courthouse to trash the trial. and remember they are members of congress, representatives lauren bogert and matt gates were outside the courthouse cheering him on. watch this.

>> this is a made up crime. no other american in the country would be charged with this type of crime. it is like the mr. potato head doll of crimes. >> we have corrupt judges. his not even allowed to speak of them, because of their correctness. -- corrupt-nests. >> what in the world is the mr. potato head of crimes? i don't even know. david, what do you make of all these republicans rolling up to support trump? i know i sound like a mad -- this is a workday for them, right? i'm just saying none of them took vacation. they didn't show up to work in washington. they came to new york. other -- are there constituents aware? >> they should be. it would also be interesting to

see how this was paid for, their expenses. this has become a parade now. now there must be a sense that former president trump is keeping a list of who shows up and who doesn't so i'm sure we'll see more in the early part of next week and listen, if in fact -- let's hope this is not the case, but if the jury decides i'm sure there will be a rally with all the vp contender it's members of the house and senate. it is a pathetic display but this is what happens. he expects people to deal on his behalf and it has been quite a procession of the last seven days to see really serious people who have really important day jobs kind of make a spectacle of themselves. >> then that doesn't sound like they are very serious people. it sounds like they are people with serious jobs they are not

showing up to and today, the gop actually risked their majority because so many of them -- they risk to the control they have on the house floor because so many of them were up and washington -- excuse me, up in new york. >> i think we always have to remember that they don't actually care about governing and they don't really care about what speaker mike johnson wants anymore either because they are mad at him now, too. i would also say these are the people, matt gates, lauren bogert, these are the people you have coming to the microphones to defend you, these are not what i would call paragons of good personal behavior. these are exactly the type of people donald trump would want around because they are literal

clones of him and speaking of constituents, lauren bogert doesn't even live in her district anymore so she's not worried about her constituents anymore. i think these are bad people doing bad things. they don't care about their jobs in the first place and most of them live in districts or states where they are never going to lose and they'll want that beautiful perfect phone call that says they are going to be the next person who might be threatened with hanging. >> my god. here's another thing. before his arrival at the courthouse, gates also tweeted that his posse was quote, standing back and standing by. did he write this to link extremist groups or did he write it so we would all set our hair on fire or did he get a 2-for-1 and get both? >> i think we got a twofer. absolutely, wink, nod, a bullhorn, all of it and we see this like we saw in texas today with governor greg abbott pardoning the man who shot someone else during a black lives matter protest four years ago. this stuff is not an accident anymore. we are seeing this not only from gates trying to be too cute by half, if such a thing is possible for him but also now this is state sponsored, saying people can take extrajudicial actions into their own hands and we are going to think it's fun and funny and we are going to encourage it between now and november.

>> david, let's talk about these presidential debates. both biden and trump are now saying yes, there up for two debates. do you believe trump is going to show up, or was agreeing to these debates a way for him to create a new media narrative so we are talking about something else when it comes to him rather than being a criminal defendant? >> that's a great question. i don't know if there is a human being in the history of our country who loves the spotlight more than him. >> he did not show up to the primary debates. >> well, i think for once maybe he listen to his team but this is so counter to everything we know about donald trump that joe biden would issue a debate challenge and he says sure, so maybe we should take him at his word but certainly if i was the biden campaign i would certainly -- i'm sure they do understand trump may try to weasel out of it because it is so against type that this went

down so easy. that being said, we have a history of presidential debates in this country that are enormously important irrespective of party. i think it's great that one of them is going to happen early before the conventions. i think it's also great that the second one happens before people start voting. the problem with the commission schedule is that a lot of america already voted so they were really stuck in the past in terms of the way people vote in this country. will we just have two? i don't know. you are asking will we have any? let's assume we do but i love to see the aggressiveness from joe biden and i think at the end of the day if donald trump still tries to weasel out of this i think the biden campaign on the president can make him pay full price for that but the thing that sticks with me as it was so counter to everything we know about him so maybe he was hungry to change the channel from the trial. maybe he is overconfident because let's remember that

first debate was ugly on style points but joe biden got the better of donald trump. he stood up to him talk, told him to shut up, handled him quite well and i biden has a lot more to gain in donald trump from having a strong first debate. >> maybe he is just so hungry full stop. i want you to weigh in but i have time for one more question and i want to ask david about his new project. you are now going to be cohosting a podcast with kellyanne conway, who is trumps accomplice numero uno, the creator, the woman who coined the term alternative facts, who made this idea of blatantly lying okay. i would not think she is the other side of your coin. why are you doing this? >> listen, i had podcasts during the last two cycles. i talked to a lot of democratic operatives and republicans. i love coming on this network. all of my former colleagues

have great podcast. for me, i want to talk about the selection with someone who was led a campaign on the other side successfully. obviously that entire -- party is supporting insurrections and an election denier but listen, we are going to go at it and also find a way to get her on things like the early vote in how you prepare for debates. i think it's important to understand that this election is so important and someone like me who has led a successful democratic presidential campaign and those that coalition and how to put that together talking to someone -- you know, we don't agree on anything. i think it will be quite heated during a lot of it but i hope we can also talk about the mechanics of the presidential campaign but is -- because i think that for me has been missing. as painful as it will be, i think it will have value to it.

>> it's important because we sit here and talk about people on other networks lying all day and every day, and they don't get fact checked in real time. every podcast, you will be doing just that. thank you both for joining. when we come back, food prices are down on the markets could not be hotter. we are talking big bigness -- bid business and big donors when we come back. when we come back.

inflation is on the mind for all sorts of voters and it has been a vulnerability for the president but today, the white house is celebrating and they should be. markets have been hitting record highs and food prices are starting to call so you would think wall street would be all and for biden and some are but the new york times is reporting that some big donors are now warming to trump again saying quote, in many instances, it is less that they are enthusiastic about mr. trump. i still hate the man, one hedge fund manager said, and more that they are exasperated with the economic and immigration policies of president biden. dan, these wall street owners suddenly think a trump presidency could be good for the economy? think about the unrest. think about trump aligning with

putin. think about trump pulling out of nato, what that unpredictability would do to markets? >> we had the paris accord. think about that. that was the first time wall street and ceos really got their antennas up about what really could happen under this administration but really what it comes back to all these years later is about taxes. it's about regulation and now, it's about israel in support of israel or lack thereof by the biden administration so again, i get where they're coming from. i don't agree with it because at the end of the day if we want people to come here and do business with us, we don't want them to think democracy is really unhinged and at the moment, i think the ability for these folks to align or forget about january 6th is a real problem. >> i get it. the hate regulation. they fear joe biden is going to raise their taxes. that's enough for them to say fine, i will take the trumper

again? >> it's remarkable to look back at the response after january 6 because there was a lot of clear eyed unified response from executives on wall street and other sectors, using the term sedition, knowing what happened was a riot on capitol hill, strong statements from companies, executives and trade groups. it has only been a few years and that has dissipated. they have kind of nodded to the fact that maybe trump wasn't that bad after all. stunning reversal after what he said on january 6. they told the story about post- charlottesville. he was on board, one of his daughters wrote a letter saying essentially dead, you need to cut ties with this guy. his family was cced on that and another daughter said ditto. i don't dispute the fact that the head of the world's biggest bank has to acknowledge the fact that he's going to be the head of that bank regardless of who is president but i think it

is remarkable how there was this lack of equivocating that happened after january 6th that has now dissipated. i don't expect that the biden administration will come out and embrace wall street wholeheartedly. that is not the administration's constituency but as you pointed out, the market has all but done that. you have the dow hitting 40,000 today. you have inflation going down. all of this is going right for those in business so there is a cynicism here about the state of the economy in the state of markets that i think is easily ignored. it is looking for is not a contrast, an alternative. >> okay, how about the false narrative of this, we don't like biden's immigration policies. okay? because you want to go back to trump? what did donald trump do? say we are going to build a wall that mexico is going to pay for? of wall is not built. mexico did not pay for it. in fact his number one homeboy steve bannon goes out and raises money from donors for

this wall that he ended up stealing and getting charged with a crime for so this, we don't like biden's immigration policies. maybe he was slow but we just saw on a bipartisan basis they put together an immigration package which we have not seen in years and by the way, the president or congress has done anything on comprehensive immigration reform since ronald reagan and its donald trump who just locked up but wall street, supposedly the smartest guys out there are going we don't like biden in the open borders. they're not opening in his trying to do something. >> one of the strongest things was the muslim ban a lot of them are okay with being vocal about it but you have to separate. you have the investor class and they have a certain set of constituencies and fiduciary responsibilities that you have ceos like jamie dimond and he is sitting there speaking to cnbc and really offering up upper missing -- and a permission structure for other

ceos. that is the bigger issue to me and i think we all know. jamie dimond's heart lies in the sort of thing but at the end of the day, there is a lot of other folks that are going to take their cues off of a guy like him and that is one of the reasons i was really disappointed in him. >> let's talk about this new report out from the congressional budget office showing that people have more purchasing power. they have more ability to buy stuff than they did in 2019 yet, people don't feel that way. is it because they have more money in their wallet, but in order to buy something, that stuff costs more? is this just emotional? >> it is emotional. prices are higher than they

were. yes, the random inflation has slowed down but there still is an adjustment been made to the fact that prices are higher so that sentiment is one continuing to dog this administration and it's going to take time for people to reckon with that. i was struck by something ken griffin of citadel said at the bloomberg conference this week, that he is now considering supporting trump. >> really? he was always considering supporting donald trump. are you kidding me? >> what i'm waiting for i think he is waiting to hear who his running mate is going to be. we are long past the moment we had back in 2016, is going to be the neutralizing force? >> come on, he's saying that because he would like to have some control over it. if you think ken griffin is not going to vote for donald trump give me a break. >> what do you that, either of you, we talked about the

signaling jamie dimond is doing. why does he need to weigh in on it at all? >> he wants trump to give him a call. he wants to floated out there and make sure he's got some power. give me a break. i'm leaving it there. >> i didn't even have time to get to the ddt tracker and i really wanted to tonight. we come back as white nationalism is invading politics. we're talking to two people with different backgrounds fighting racism in america from the inside out when the 11th hour continues. visit purple.com or a store near you

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the southern poverty law center once that members of the movement are placing much of their energy into harnessing the anger and resentment of trump supporters into a broad authoritarian movement. potentially, creating division and violence in the 2024 campaign. both of our next guests have experienced members of white nationalist groups renounce their ideology. derrick blakley joins us. derek's father was a grand wizard of the ku klux klan who broke free from the movement and wrote about the experience in a book called "the klansman's son." darrell, how did you start doing this? you are a musician. >> that is true.

i grew up as a child of parents in the u.s. foreign service traveling all over the world at the age of three and my first introduction to school was in 1961 when we begin traveling. you go to a country for two years then you're back home in two years again in another country. my classmates and schools overseas for from all over the world. that was my norm, but then i would come back home and be in all black schools are all white schools because they were still segregated or newly integrated and there was not the amount of diversity. one time i came back at the age of 10 and 1968. i was in fourth grade, one of only two black kids in the entire school. i joined the cub scouts and was the only black scout in the area and we had a parade. nothing but white people on either side watching on the

street, people waiting, cheering, smiling until we get to a certain point when i began getting hit by bottles and rocks and i didn't understand it. i didn't understand racism. i had never experienced it before so that is what prompted me to investigate it at that age. >> tell me about the work you do now. >> i spend a lot of time meeting people like derek and others who were involved in white supremacy, and trying to find out what makes them tick and help them come out and lead productive lives and as a result, many of them have come out and are also trying to de- radicalized people in the movement or prevent young people from going down that rabbit hole. >> derek, for you, what was your journey? >> i grew up in one of the leading families of white

nationalism. my parents had worked on building it for decades by the time i was born. i gave my first interview advocating fight nationalism when i was 10 years old and it was from that point on i really believed that i believed in the ideology and as a teenager, i ran for office. i advocated for it, i really saw myself is trying to take on the mantle of white nationalist politics, like trying to take it as a movement that could be much bigger and tap into a lot of blatant racist beliefs and amplify them. >> but, how did you break? >> it was in college. i believe that this movement had all these facts and had this worldview that made sense and i also believed that i didn't want to be somebody who harmed the people and i didn't want to be somebody who saw themselves that way. at college, i got to know people. i was homeschooled. my family took me out of school even though i was in south florida, so very multiracial, a lot of jewish people in this anti-semitic movement in college was the first time i got very close to people without telling them about my background, thinking i could leave both lives and eventually, that was not true, and i faced this ostracism and criticism from the community i

had really gotten to know and people i had come to love and i just wanted to understand, is there some kind of misunderstanding? is there something i can bridge here that was my first question. >> daryl, you get close to dangerous people. you literally go to ku klux klan rallies as a black man. you meet with leadership. how physically dangerous is this for you? why have you chosen this work? >> listen, our society can only become one of two things. it can become that which we sit back and watch it become or what we stand up and make it become an i've chosen the latter. >> what is it like for you in those scenarios, though? >> i have seen things, as derek points out, his change came from being exposed to different people, and he began questioning things, so i bring that to people vicariously when i intend -- attend these clan rallies. i am a firm believer that a

missed opportunity for dialogue is a missed opportunity for conflict resolution. >> how concerned are you right now about the growth of white nationalism? >> i think it's an enormous threat. i've never seen a moment in my lifetime where there was more political reception for this movement, because that is always what they are trying to do. they're not powerful because they have millions of members. they are powerful because their ideas are not a lien to our society, and they are always trying to find a larger megaphone to amplify what they believe, and i have just never seen a moment where more mainstream sections of the american right are willing to tolerate white supremacy, anti- semitism, anti-immigrant rhetoric and frankly, violent rhetoric. >> what do you think about this moment?

>> i can tell you what is going on, as the demographic shift that is happening in this country, the browning of america, white genocide true miscegenation and all these other beliefs and people -- that is why we are seeing more and more lone wolves. when i first started with this thing, there was the , some , lots of groups saying it's time to take back the country and when people fail to take back the country you get lone wolf to say i will do it myself that's when they walk into a black church or a grocery store in buffalo, things like that. that is what we are seeing, they are trying to stop this demographic shift and looking for what they call rahowa, which is what they call the racial holy war. >> we are blessed you told -- two are trying to stop that. a huge thank you again to derek and daryl, and we will be back right after a quick break. right after a quick break.

it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. wooooo!

>> thank you for watching. catch my extended interview with republican senator mitt romney on our youtube page. go to msnbc.com/stephanie and guess what. we have a great lineup tomorrow for the nightcap. if you have a hot date, catch it again on saturday at 11:00 pm eastern right here on msnbc. on that note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks and nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. see you at the end of tomorrow.