help us do our jobs better. to help make them safer. to help free us up to do more sophisticated tasks. but as we know, often employers look at technology as a way to cut costs and make more profits. unions are a tool for workers to collectively come together and leverage their voice and strength. strength. put guardrails around how technology is used, but also help make sure the wealth that is created from all of these productivity gains is distributed widely among working people. wo >> okay, afl-cio president, that is a great title for you, liz schuler. that will do it for us. up next, the beat weekend. wee

welcome, to the special coverage of criminal trumps criminal trial. it is a week that could be make or break as key witness michael cohen unloaded on trump but then found himself on defense with trumps fate now hanging in the balance. >> the star witness takes the stand against donald j trump. >> michael cohen now the star witness. >> the ex-president coming face to face with the man who used to do his dirty work. who now has turned into the key witness. >> telling the court, "everything required mr. trump's sign off." >> will he keep his cool during the cross-examination? >> i think the punches are building cumulatively. i think that tuesday there were bruises, and today there is blood. >> stor cohen is a bad human being. >> if i was a juror i would think this guy is making it up

as he is going along. >> we have heard different people, legal experts, longtime journalists, and other observers close to this. i can tell you, was inside the courtroom. including the key cross on thursday.and cohen did give the da what they wanted including cooperation of what he says were real-time proof of trump being in on this criminal scheme. about as thursday continued, the defense continued to chip away at his credibility. monday prosecution had cohen narrating the entire scheme. it looked bad for defendant trump. questions were about the catch and kill, the playboy model and the adult addressed. -- actress. he said that he knew there would be a significant impact if the stories came out. prosecutors pressed him about the daniels payment and cohen said that trump was angry to learn that it had resurfaced. "i thought you took care of

this." an angry trump said according to testimony. just take care of it. and he recounted what he did was at the direction of the defendant for trump. and this was a damning picture and that trump was not only in on everything, but sharing in real time his own motives. in other words, if you believe cohen, you now have the motive piece. he don't even need cohen for the tabloid and money piece because you have other witnesses . so that looked bad. it was bad. for defendant trump, and we reported on it. then came the cross exam. whatever happens in this historic trial, this is what everyone has been gearing up for, because over several days you had these defense attorneys going at cohens credibility, not just saying that he changed his story, that was explained already, but he continues to live, not just about the core evidence in this case, but about

other unrelated stuff and that his personal vendetta has not only clouded his judgment, but that he personally care so much, as he confirmed, and raised questions about whether that has colored or even distorted his ability to tell the truth on the stand. trumps defense aggressively pushing and questioning cohen on all kinds of things and let's be clear, and i mentioned this in my reporting thus far, some of it is not completely add up. some of it did not create a logical counter story, but cumulatively, over the days, it did appear to poke holes in not only cohen's credibility, but something else that jurors may care about. they're trying to decide who to believe, whether he overtime went straight and told the truth, or continue to be a kind of angry unreliable person who was constantly publicly insulting the man he used to look up two.

>> donald cares for no one or anything other than himself. >> i know what mr. trump is, he is a racist, he is a con man, and he is a cheat. and i'm going to jail in part because of my decision to help mr. trump hide that payment from the american people before they voted a few days later. >> you remember that moment? that is about five years ago and we have gotten all the way to this trial, the only trial trump is facing after effectively delaying the others with an assist from his own appointees on the supreme court. some look at what you just saw and they see a whistleblower, they see someone who made mistakes but came clean. other people though, and this is what the defense is pushing, might see someone who had one story that would benefit him one way and another story when he got caught, and maybe even another story as time went on.

so they pushed him on the kind of resistance figure he has become with a podcast that repeatedly, meticulously documents his turning against trump, and t-shirts that show is one time boss and mentor now in a prison cell. and how much he has been motivated by revenge. the man wrote a book called revenge. trumps lawyer also just paid him. they showed a lawyer who looks clearly like the most upset person in the room or the most heated in this moment, saying we aren't asking for your beliefs, the jury does not want to hear what you think happened. he called him a liar at one point and cohen rebutted that. the courthouse in lower manhattan became something of a gathering place. what you are seeing on your screen is not normal. i want you to see that. i want to cover this with the evidence. the people assembled to attack the rule of law to undermine the actual jury that is

sitting, which is legally authorized to make this decision, those were the right- wing republicans that gathered in person to do that, including the highest ranking republican, the speaker of the house, mike johnson, and other lawmakers. you can see him making this political pilgrimage, and then he was outflanked to his right by matt gaetz, a figure that helped topple the last speaker and who has leverage along with some other right-wing figures. they lionize trump in the same way that cohen used to and they are saying things that trump has been busted for saying in violation of the gag order, so he has handed but off, which some say could be a second violation, or the 11th or 12, literally, as they came out and did trumps dirty work. >> the judge inside, his daughter is making millions of dollars running against donald

trump, raising money for donald trump's political opponents. >> the judge his own daughter is making millions of dollars doing online fundraising for democrats. >> the judge's daughter is a political operative. and raises money for democrats. rats. >> what you just heard is wrong, it is not just coming from a beleaguered defendant desperately trying to muddy the waters, or from his own random paid political hacks, but from people who are leaders in government. if you have been watching the special coverage, you may have noticed that we at msnbc are trying very hard to cover this historic trial fairly. you will see people on both sides and independent legal experts and people say things about the trial where some people might get mad, but don't shoot the messenger, we are just telling you how the trial is going. there are no two sides to this though. it might be a gag order violation if donald trump was publicly personally riding those lines, because it is a violation to instruct others on behalf of the defendant to attack family members, children

of the judge, as it should be, but second and more widely, i want to be clear, those officials have every right to attend the trial, to observe it and have every right to weigh in on it to some degree but they have systematically, several of them i have played for you and others have come to town, have not just done that, they have undermined the rule of law in advance before this jury even hears the case. they have contributed to an environment where, if they don't get the result they want, they will say we have already been attacking this court and if they do it is possible that the defendant could be acquitted or have a hung jury and thus not be convicted, and then they will just move right along without any apparent care for the system of government that they are in. remember, they are not random commentators, they are members of the government, which has three branches, and this is one of them. and it is the judicial branch that is supposed to be respected precisely because it is the less partisan branch, it is not just do press releases. we have not heard the da

respond to those politicians, let alone the judge, and yet these people are undermining it. it is not normal and it is not done. we have had a tradition of presidents of both parties which changed recently with the one that is on trial, but a tradition of saying wait until you hear what the jury decides and we respect the ruling, the decision of the jury. just as you must respect supreme court rulings, because otherwise the whole system crumbles and you don't have a rule of law democracy anymore. while this might look like an anti-trump thing, it is a larger problem and i promise you, you folks show up at bob menendez's eruption trial i will tell you about it. so far we have not seen that happen and we have not seen democratic politicians go there. we cannot do false equivalence when there is no equivalent to the underlying situation. itua but we have to be careful at a time that people have already attacked the last peaceful transfer of power and that

election, which had no real question about the winner. the current president one by three states and the supreme court did not take any appeals and there were none strong enough to hear. but you know what happened, we had an insurrection and now the same crowd is challenging the next election because trump might lose and they are already challenging that and now they are challenging the judicial process of our fellow citizens to judge him as they should judge any other defendant because that is what happens when you live in a rule of law democracy. so while this trial is about the verdict, it is also about so much more. and we can't have false equivalencies about that. our coverage continues right now. we will make sense of this big weekend we have a top reporter from the new york times and a veteran from the manhattan das office himself, right after this. this. it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh.

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i'm giving the committee today a copy of the $130,000 wire transfer from me to miss clifford's attorney that was demanded by miss clifford to maintain her silence about her affair with mr. trump. >> the bombshells have become criminal evidence. that was michael cohen explaining all of this to congress. he gave congress the receipts which became a big part of the case. case. >> as exhibit 5 a to the testimony shows, i am providing a copy of a $35,000 check that president trump personally signed from his personal bank account on august 1 of 2017.

when he was president of the united states, pursuant to the cover-up, which was the basis of my guilty plea, to reimburse me. the word used by mr. trump's tv lawyer for the legal hush money i paid on his behalf . this $35,000 check was one of 11 check installments that was paid throughout the year while he was president. dent. >> we are joined now by emily and veteran of the manhattan das office. welcome to both of you. here we are. okay? i'm curious, emily, what you think having followed all the way back to when the story first broke, and all these other trials that have been delayed. they are basically all slated for after the election. and then the week started with michael cohen giving a version

of that set of events to the jury, and it ended with him i would say on defense over whether he is always truthful. >> yeah, i mean that clip really shows how this is the saga of michael cohen and donald trump's relationship, which was a relationship cohen wanted to hold so close and so dear. it blew up on him. you know, this hush money scheme, his own role in it and lying about it sent him to prison, and now he is trying to bring donald trump into that scheme with him. of course, with the prosecutors behind him. so this story that he has been telling, that he got in big trouble initially for lying about, then he said he told the truth about to congress, now there are supposed to be real consequences for donald trump, who cohen casts as the principal. and then does he have enough credibility to have the jury believe that version of events so that he can pull trump down

with him? >> that is well put. and jeremy, you have been inside of that office and you have tried these kind of cases, so you are a great expert for us. i want to play some of cohen's history because there is so much talk about bias in the world and that word, sometimes the idea that you are only doing something for your political views were something else and there is also information bias, right ? we have all absorbed what emily referred to as a relationship saga. we have no reason to believe that the jury has followed this very closely, and they are now instructed not to, so i was watching in the courtroom this week as they kind of got more and more detail about this very strange odyssey, and to them it is newer information. here is some of where he started. started. >> i know mr. trump, i have stood by him shoulder to shoulder over the past decade.

i think he is a wonderful man. obviously very loyal and dedicated to mr. trump. i will do anything to protect mr. trump in the family and now the vice president-elect as well as the campaign. i think he is going to be a great president. mr. trump as a significant number of people and i would like to keep myself in that circle of extremely loyal people. people. >> not exactly a resistance whistleblower. so the prosecutors argued that version of michael is why he did lie then and is now telling the truth, and the defense counsel argued how are you going to trust this guy? his case keeps changing. >> sammy the bull was not a good guy but he was loyal and we know that donald trump supports loyalty and calls in loyalty. at some point when you turn your back on someone, if you believe the narrative, that person turns around and tells

the story, but you are not getting the kingpin, you're not getting the boss are the major bad guy unless you have dirty hands. you want a choirboy? then it goes nowhere. you need the person who is in that room as part of that crime or that bad act to get the main player you are seeking and in this case it is michael:. >> sammy the bull helped l:. to godey. godey. >> teflon was not teflon. >> did you see the same recent credibility problem? because we have heard from veterans like you that they did get some punches landed because there were real questions about whether cohen is not just changed his story since he got in trouble, but then less than truthful recently. >> you have to look at this is not the haymaker down goes frazier knockout, it is body blows. and i don't know if they landed enough, because i think the prosecution did a good job humanizing him, and so far to

michael cohen's credit, he has not been bombastic and is cut from the same cloth as donald trump but different and would just go on these tirades. he has been respectful and calm, at times more so on day one then day two. he was a little evasive in answering questions. but it sounds correct. today he was much more yes and no and if he did not recall, he did not recall. and going back to what i said before, at the end of the day you're getting the bad guy. and whether or not he wanted to become chief of staff and he told his daughter or whether or not he asked for a pardon, he is a regular guy at the end of the day who wants to be vindicated and does not want to go to prison. none of this is a home run. >> in you think that checks out. >> emily, there are so many lawyers in trump's orbit that are in trouble. trump went to jail for him and other aides went to jail and today or i should say thursday i was in court and saw jeff

clark, a codefendant in a different case. i don't know why you want to bring a codefendant from your other terminal problems into this courtroom, but here we are. and then he clashed with cohen and was convicted of other crimes in the same orbit, and all the attention and television drew scrutiny at him. i was able to he was convicted for crimes related to line. he has his own set of issues, but he was the person on the other side that everyone remembers him one thing he said was that he thinks there is evidence to convict trump. he expects trump to be convicted but he previewed what he said would be problems with cohen notwithstanding the fact they have clashed in the past. take a listen. n. >> every case needs to have one or two primary witnesses who tell the story. from my perspective, i surmise that the da is going to use potentially michael cohen or stormy daniels for that purpose.

and i think that has the potential to be a disaster.michael cohen , and you know i have never been a fan of michael for various reasons, you know, he is a serial liar and he has shown himself to be incapable of telling the truth. >> emily? >> well, michael avenatti obviously has a problem with cohen. one thing i have been thinking about is the way in which cohen's previous testimony in the civil trial gave him a chance to rehearse. you know, we are seeing someone here who is much calmer in terms of demeanor and is holding it together on the standpoint and we will see if that is enough to convince the jury. he has weaknesses. he has lied in the past. whether he is now atoning for that or making up for it by telling the part of the story that is true, i mean that is what this tests. honestly, if you have a record

of being convicted of perjury you are automatically not the best witness, but the prosecution really tried to lay the groundwork for the idea that this is not a great guy. they are relying on him for this idea that trump knew about these checks and the fraud part of the case against him. so you know, we are going to have to see whether this is enough and then also, what happens next? does the defense put on witnesses? who are they? how does the case build from here and how do we look back on cohen's testimony once we have the whole shape of the trial? >> going backwards, what does the defense case look like? after they hit their clients, michael cohen, let's get him off the standpoint there are diminishing returns and at some point the jury loses interest when you keep saying the same thing and you lied about this and that, because the prosecution says he may have lied but that is not make you a liar. >> and i promise to let you

weigh in on something we lived with, which is, the spectacle of politicians and members of the government undermining the rule of law, which is unusual and bears some addressing. you said as a former prosecutor you want to speak on that. >> just as someone who believes in the criminal justice system, one of the foundations of our country .2 say it is wholly inappropriate or offensive and reprehensible is not doing it justice. it is a complete understatement, and these folks were getting up there i mean to use a term that may offend people, and this is nothing to do with donald trump in this instance. if until he is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but when you talk about wanting to be loyal to get something, that is why they are there. this is a bunch of bootleggers that are really obsessed with donald trump who want nothing but to be his lapdog, because it donald trump wins they will get their little fiefdoms and maybe a vice presidency or a good committee through working through the speaker of the house. that is not what justice is about.

why the governor in one of the dakotas is here talking about a criminal trial in the state of new york city is beyond me. >> and undermining the rule of law. >> you want to talk about your neighbor shooting her dog, great, go ahead and do that but don't come to new york and undermine justice. if there is a political issue, i get that. >> i do think being prosecutor brings extra heft, because this is a local case and in the federal system there are precedents where they will throw out an entire military trial because the president said anything about it. this is supposed to be the tradition is, you're going to follow what the jury says, and that is after the fact, let alone prejudging it. >> by their theory then, if we . have a trial in alabama and if a democratic candidate or elected official, it is bad and i will see it as most people are maybe watching from new york but from the new york

comptroller. he is not held to a higher or was not held to a higher standard in the courtroom, but he was outside the courtroom, because we hold our elected officials to more scrutiny. you should be treated equally in the room, but when donald trump finds himself in this position, true or not, which is not, because he has not been proven guilty, he has himself to blame to start this off. >> i don't mean to sound old- fashioned or whatever, but something i have touched on with you and hear with emily, we all have to understand that these are members of the government. it has to be a different standard. we're talking about whether you support the government you are a part of. and we saw in the resurrection some of the support for that. but if you have the calls coming from inside the house and members of government will uphold the judicial branch, then we are in a big problem regardless of the outcome of this case. thanks to both of you, good to see you. as you.for the maga break w will get into that but first a

preview of the punch back . if cohen was on defense, what comes next week? we have you covered. >> d.in visiting trump in the oval office he says to me something of the effect of don't worry, michael, your january and february reimbursement checks -- burseme help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

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you may recall that when

trump was indicted people said it is here, and then it turned out some of those indictments did not turn into trials. only one trial was slated and then you might have heard about the trial was starting and people say it is here. well, i can tell you that i have been following this very closely and it is here for real in the next week or two, by which i mean, they're going to continue this trial, but we know they're going to finish witnesses this coming weekend it will go to the jury this week or the week after, so we are actually really totally here. and all of trump's delay tactics failed. if he thought violating the gag order might slow this down, the judge might have outsmarted him on that. michael cohen back on the standpoint the defense will finish cross examination and we can tell you that should end by that morning or early afternoon. the judge told both sides to be ready to give closing arguments the following day, tuesday, that is the end, and then trumps fate officially transfers to those 12 fellow citizens, a jury of his peers

to decide whether or not he is guilty of a felony. we are joined by a former prosecutor nda prosecutor. welcome to you both. katherine, it really is here now. what is key next week ? >> the judge promised june 3 it will be over before that unless a catastrophe happened, so the key is, will the defense put on any defense case? i doubt it. i could be proven wrong. and if they don't, then we could have summations on sunday or i'm sorry come on tuesday. >> let's talk about what that means, because number one, nothing wrong with that and nothing to infer from that. they have no burden, and often it is a wise strategy to not put on a full defense. >> and often there is e. no defense. >> in your mind is why that is? >> because the prosecution has the burden. this will never happen, but defense attorneys don't even have to do cross examinations. they don't have to do opening statements. it is the prosecution that has

the burden. the defendant has an absolute right to testify and not to testify. and the prosecution cannot in any way, in their summation or through questioning's, and for that why did a defendant say this or why didn't they bring in any witnesses? so it is not -- it should not be held against donald trump if there are no witnesses, because that is what most defendants do. this apparently, cohen is the prosecution's last witness, so what you will hear the prosecution say is the people rest. >> and as for whether or not -- most don't. there are many reasons why trump shouldn't. i was questioning one of his former lawyers questioning the fact that he is a known habitual proven liar among other reasons, so the likelihood that donald trump takes the stand, you know, i think it is more likely that beyonci forgets how to sing and dance then that donald trump testifies but the judge has referred to it as the court,

the court says do you have any indication whether trump, his client will testify? and trump's lawyer says no, the judge pushes a little. and no determination and blanche says no. can we maintain anything in that? >> he is factoring in the schedule because obviously, if the defendant is going to testify, that could be two days, so there for we are pushing it way past what i promised a jury. so that is just the defense being you know, i don't want to say coy, but i mean they don't have to -- >> why don't you want to say coy mark >> i don't want to accuse him, i don't know this man. i don't know the strategy. >> i think he is being a little coy. he has a client that likes to keep an eye on what is going on outside the courtroom. and this idea that trump might testify -- >> the client is saying i don't know yet. know yet. >> i have just seen this movie too many times. this is not fast and furious the sequel, this is the eighth

one, and he tries to create the environment of bravado, of tough and strong in the idea being that he is not afraid and all that. with that put to rest, your view of what is important in this pivotal week that is coming up? >> absolutely. you know, what the defense should do i think is trying to find witnesses that can get their story and but are not named donald trump. the challenges finding such a witness that is willing to come forward. the da has made clear that if you commit perjury you will be prosecuted. really what they need to do is come up with a very short set of questions for michael cohen after the break, something that is very memorable for the jury, something that sticks in their minds and stop talking on and on. >> you have done a mock trial with us before. old school msnbc beatniks may remember, you went to an actual

courtroom and did a mock trial. do you have any examples of questions that you would like to see cohen ask next week? which is to deal with the real doubts raised and on the other hand, a lot of receipts back him up. >> the need to focus on the . pieces of his testimony that don't have receipts or corroboration. and they have not done that. and that is really the biggest failure -- >> so what would you ask? >> i would ask them for example, mr. cohen, there is no email whatsoever from donald trump to you regarding the falsification of business records, is there? there is no text message. you don't have a recording of donald trump talking. and walker all the ways in which you can isolate pieces of his testimony that are not corroborated. that is what the defense should be focused on but they are all over the place and that is the biggest failure of the defense this far. >> that is a different view. >> and sits down. >> i think it is fair to say

that the defense has been meandering and at times boring. and this is a story. you never want to be too boring, but we have had multiple experts on. if you're not just wishing trump convict did, which many people are for many valid reasons. but when we are talking about what has happened in the past week and what will happen next week, there are a lot of folks saying that they have raised questions. i guess that my question for you is, what do you think the prosecutors could do in the office you have been in to tighten this up next week with cohen? >> it will be interesting, because i would always wonder what is going to come out of his mouth. i think that he is a liar. and they might want to tighten up, he keeps trying to revisit the plea of guilty which has absolutely nothing to do with donald trump. he pled guilty, and i should not have been prosecuted. it was the judge's fault,

corrupt and somehow try to clean that up and just have him say i pled guilty because i was guilty. maybe he can't say -- i would hate to put -- usually as a prosecutor, that is what the defendant says and i would laugh at if it is your own witness that is a problem. >> in a world without m. objections you might just say that we keep hearing this is so important to you, and you have such strong feelings and you have been building up to this and podcasting about it constantly. doesn't that mean that every fiber of your being wants to do this right and honestly and not blow it? if it is so important to you, you don't want to blow it, without an objection, you try to reverse it that way or mentioned that enclosing to the jury, right mark >> you're talking about the prosecution. >> a bad couple of days and there is an idea that he is so emotionally cannot be trusted and another idea that this is so important to him, why would he perjure himself now?

>> i would not say that about him because he is such a liar. i would not wrap my arms around him. i would go through every piece of cooperation and circumstantial evidence that proves guilt, and then of course you could see all of the things that mr. cohen said that is not the nicest person and is a convicted perjure her, but he is credible here. >> would you as a prosecutor in closing say we showed you cohen but we don't even need him to prove this case? >> i don't know if i would go that far, because if you have jurors who will say because we don't believe him, but we think you do need him, so i would not go that far. i would say he is here because he helps tell the story but he is cooperated. >> almost get the impression this stuff is harder than it looks. we tip our hats to all the season members of the bar.

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>> i think this trial is absolutely ridiculous, i think it is a sham prosecution. >> i wanted to be here myself to call out what is a travesty of justice. >> this is a made up crime. >> this is a show. >> this is a crooked sham trial. >> this thing is a farce. >> this is a sham, this is some third rate banana republic. >> we are joined by doug brinkley and the opening question, is the trial a sham, or is that an effort to undermine the government's rule of law? >> what a clown show of republicans coming in defending donald trump. i mean they are saying the same kind of words because trump --

the gag order on me? well you can have my surrogates and they are going to defend me. well, look at matt gaetz you know probably rhetoric there and look at turberville tumbling in from alabama. i mean, the collective idiocy of the republicans that were there to defend donald trump, it is embarrassing for them and the republican party has many good numberãmembers in it, but they all showed up to grab a media moment and i think they dented their reputation. >> we have a lot of what they used to call defining deviancy down these days. as a historian, can you think of other active members of government, not fringe figures, impugning and undermining trial before the jury even ruled? >> it is startling to me. i mean, we are dealing with the first time that an ex-president

is facing criminal charges. we were on day 18 today. michael cohen had three days. why not get out of the way? but the maga movement is an attempt to undermine the institutions and make people think that justice does not work in the united states and i know it is about a couple fringe figures but it is the dominant trend in the gop. it is sad and it is frightening because it shows what a tinderbox our democracy is standing on when that many members of one of our parties would stoop to such a ridiculous level. >> yeah, culoand trump awaits h fate. he is presumed innocent, but other people are not. there have been convictions for sedition for the storming the capitol and the brutal violence against police and as a candidate, trump has mentioned

repeatedly about hardening these people, not to say they did not do it, which can be a lawful use of the pardon, but saying he is going to pardon them anyway. i don't know if the word would be vigilante is him or straight up autocratic license to two. but take a listen. >> they are going to release the january 6 hostages. they need to release them. >> i will look favorably abou full pardons. and i mean full pardons, with an apology to manny. >> january 6 the defendants are having their lives destroyed and being treated worse than terrorists and murderers. if i become president, if i decide to do it, i will be looking at them very seriously for pardons. pardons. >> regardless of the outcome of this trial, does that wider context matter? should americans be concerned that this failed coup leader is

openly talking about amnesty for convicted seditionist's? >> absolutely. i mean, when you watch what happens january 6, we listen to people like mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham denounced trump. and that a cycle like this would occur when people are actually willing to back somebody that is talking about providing pardons to people who ran an insurrection on the capitol and beat police and through our country helter- skelter and yet trumps advertising it and people say great. he is an autocrat, but he is taking the pardon as a weapon. basically if you elect trump you will arrest you if he feels like it or let you out of jail if he feels like it. that is why he is such a danger and why we have to all be very awake right now to see a kind

of neo-fascism rising across the land. it has been there for a while, but the fact that this many people would go to new york on the $130,000 event and fled in and back his action and try to disrupt our legal system with reckless rhetoric, it is staggering. staggering. >> 30 seconds, do you think the founders underestimated how much the pardon power could be abused for actually encouraging crimes against the nation? >> absolutely. it is not just donald trump. i think that presidents have been abusing the power. we saw problems with bill clinton and we have seen every president in some way pardon the wrong people will but there is a sense of abuse of power with donald trump saying reelect me to president because i will abuse power and anyone

in a fascist state of mind are my friends, so i will let you out of jail. >> that is well put. the founders give a lot of thought to the abuse of power given breaking with colonial england, and conservatives traditionally worry about excessive power, federal government power, and yet here you have someone taking control of the republican party. as you said, running on abuse of power. thank you, sir. up next, we go behind the scenes. we told you how many reporters are going into the trial. a lot of people are going in as witnesses and observers, and we will show you that next.

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we have seen much of the world riveted by this ongoing trial of former president trump. in new york, many large crowds of people waited just to get in . supporters and other people just wanted to stand aside to make a point. we're talking about one of the most elusive tickets in the city, those long lines starting early in the morning to try to get in the courtroom and scalping can become a thing. some have sold their seats for hundreds and last night the comics weighed in. >> it seems like the only n.thi we are accomplishing is making sure trump is well rested before the election. >> cohen laid out tapes, emails, calendar events. that is impressive.

one of trumps lawyers might actually win a case. >> trump ordered him to pay daniels $130,000 telling him, just do it. in response, nike has changed their sneaker to ea, sneakers. >> michael cohen was questioned about his use of tiktok . other people are using the platform to watch the trial. >> michael cohen just testified under oath. r oath. >> today was the funniest day in court. donald trump. >> we are living through this together, and the good news is people taking in the actual facts and discussing it as a country. we will see what the jury decides when they decide it. keep it locked right here on msnbc. keep it locked right here on msnbc. >