the next 100 years, the next 200 years are going to be. and those 200 years are going to literally look very differently than what the 200 years previously looked. i can guarantee you that. [dramatic music] welcome, to this special

coverage of donald trump's criminal trial, in a week that could be make or break as key witness michael cohen took the stand, and found himself on defense with trump's fate now hanging in the balance. >> the star would take the stand against donald j trump. >> michael cohen is the star witness in the new york versus trump trial. >> the ex-president came face- to-face with the man who used to do his dirty work who has now turned into the key witness. >> "everything required mr. trump's sign off. >> will he keep his cool when trump's lawyers begin what could be intense? >> the punches are building. i think that tuesday, there were bruises and today, there is blood. >> if i was a juror in this case watching that, i would say, this guys making it up as he goes. >> is he? we've heard different people,

leaguer -- legal experts and other advertisers. several times, covering this trial, including the key cross thursday. michael: did give the d.a.s what they wanted, including corroboration of what he says words real-time proof of trump being in on this criminal scheme . as thursday continued, the defense continued to chip away at his credibility. prosecution had michael cohen narrating the hush money scheme . it looked bad for defendant trump. questions about the catch and kill. michael cohen testified that trump knew there would be a african impact on his presidential campaign of the stories came out. they said trump was angry to learn that it had resurfaced. "i thought you took care of this, i thought this was under

control. just take care of it" michael cohen said that what he did without the direction of the benefit the picture and trump is not only in a but sharing in real time his own noted the,, you don't the tablet money because you are with the checks. so, bad and it was bad for, and the cross exam. whatever happens in l, is what every has been given for is over several days, you had defense attorneys going at michael cohen's credibility, not just saying he changed his story. that was previewed and been told that are, but that he continues to dissemble and lie about other, unrelated things,

and that his personal vendetta has not only clouded his judgment but that he personally cares so much, as he confirmed, the raise questions about whether that has colored or distorted his ability to tell the truth on the stand. trump's defense is pushing and questioning all kinds of things and let's be clear, some of it did not completely add up. some did not create a logical counter story, but over the days, as i told you, it did appear to poke holes in michael cohen's credibility, but something else jurors may care about, whether he, over time, told the truth or continue to be an angry, unreliable person who is publicly insulting the man he used to look up to. >> donald cares for no one or anything other than himself.

>> i know what mr. trump is. he is a racist. he is a con man , and he is a cheat. >> i am going to jail in part because of my decision to help mr. trump hide that payment from the american people before they voted a few days later. >> do you remember that? that's about five years ago. the only trial that trump is facing after effectively delaying the others. so on one hand, some people look at that and see a whistleblower, someone who made mistakes but came clean. other people, and this is what the defense is pushing, might see someone who had once tori who benefited one way, another story when he got caught, and maybe another as time went on. so, they pushed him on the resistance figure he's been, in

a podcast that repeatedly documents his time with trump and his turning against trump, and t-shirts that show his onetime boss and mentor in prison. he wrote a book called "revenge" and he tried to beat him, you can see this sketch showing a lawyer who looks, clearly, like the most upset person in this room, saying, we are not asking for your beliefs, the jury doesn't want to hear what you think happened, they called him a liar at one point and michael cohen rebutted that. the courthouse of lower manhattan also became something of an maga gathering. this is not normal. understand that. people assembled to attack the rule of law, to undermine the actual jury that is sitting, which is legally authorized to make this

decision. those were the right-wing republicans that gathered in person to do that. the speaker of the house, mike johnson, and other lawmakers, you see them there, making this political pilgrimage and then? he was outflanked by matt gates, who helped to topple the last speaker and currently has leverage over the others weaker . they are there, in the same way that michael cohen used to, idolized trump . they sort of handed this off, which some experts say could be a second violation of the gag order as they came out and did trump's dirty work. >> the judge inside, his daughter is making millions of dollars running against donald trump, raising money for donald trump's political opponents. >> the judges own daughter is

making millions of dollars doing online fundraising for democrats. >> the judges daughter is a political operative who raises money for democrats. >> what you just heard is wrong. it's not just coming from a beleaguered defendant desperately trying to muddy the waters for his own, random, paid political axe but from people who are leaders in government. if you've been watching our special coverage, we are trying very hard to cover this very historic trial fairly. you'll see people from both sides, independent legal experts, people will say things about trial where some people don't get -- get mad, but don't shoot the messenger. there are no two sides to what you just heard. it might be a gag order violation if donald trump was publicly writing those lines, because it's a violation of the gag order to instruct others on behalf of the defendant to attack family members, children, of the judge, as it should be. second lively, let's be clear.

those officials have every right to attend the trial, to observe it, we have every right to weigh in, to some degree, but they have systematically, several of them i just played, they haven't just done that. they have undermined the rule of law in advance, before this jury even hears the case. they've contributed to a new environment where if they don't get the results they want, will say, we've been already attacking this court and it's possible the defendant could be acquitted or have a hung jury and not be convicted and they will just move along without any apparent care for the system of government that they are in. they are not just random commentators. they are members of the government which has three branches, and this is one of them. it's the judicial branch that is supposed to be respected because it's the less partisan branch. it doesn't just do press releases.

we haven't heard the d.a. respond to those politicians, let alone the judge, and yet these people who know how it works are undermining it. it's not normal and it not done. we've had a tradition of saying, wait to hear what the jury decides and we will respect the ruling, the decision of the jury. just as we respect supreme court rulings otherwise we don't have a rule of democracy anymore. while it might look like it's trump, anti-trump, it's a larger problem but i promise if folks show up at bob menendez's corruption trial, i will tell you about it. in fact, we haven't seen democratic politicians go there, matter of fact. we can do a false equivalence when there is no equivalence. we have to be careful in a time where people have artie attacked the last peaceful transfer of power and the election which had no real question about the winner, the current president won by three states.

but you know what happened. we had an insurrection and now that same crowd is challenging the next election because they're worried trump may lose and now they are challenging the judicial process of our fellow citizens, to judge him as they should judge any other defendant because that's what happens when you live in a rule of law democracy. while this trial is about the verdict it's also about more. we can't have a false equivalence about that. our special coverage continues right now. we put this together to make sense of this big weekend we have a top reporter from the new york times and a veteran of the manhattan d.a.s office itself, right after this. ter t like doors opening wherever i go... [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me! y'all seeing this? wild! and i don't even have to activate anything. oooooohhh... automatic sashimi! earn cash back that automatically adjusts

to how you spend with the citi custom cash® card. [mind blown explosion noise] detect this: living with hiv, robert learned he can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why he switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: marnina learned that most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup

and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: you could stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about dovato. (music playing) (vo) red hot deal days are here at verizon. you could stay undetectable with fewer medicines. get our biggest deals of the season. only until may 29th. get a bundle of your choice on us.

from any of our top brands so you'll get a free phone, and a smartwatch and a tablet. yup, all three on us. plus, check out tons more great deals. it's red hot deal days at verizon. hurry in. it's only unitl may 29th. sara federico: at st. jude, we don't care who cures cancer. we just need to advance the cure. it's a bold initiative to try and bump cure rates all around the world, but we should. it is our commitment. we need to do this. norman, bad news... i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is... xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal... i know... faster wifi and savings? ...i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc.

mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc?

and giving the committee today a copy of the $130,000 wire transfer, from me, to ms. clifford's attorney that was demanded by ms. clifford to maintain her silence about her affair with mr. trump. >> bombshells have become evidence. that was michael cullen explaining to congress. he gave the receipts which became a big part of this week's case. >> as exhibit five 8 shows, and providing a copy of a $35,000 check that president trump personally signed from his personal bank account on august 1st of 2017, when he was

president of the united states. pursuant to the cover-up which was the basis of my guilty plea, to reimburse me. the word used by mr. trump's lawyer, for the illegal hush money i paid on his behalf, his $35,000 check was of 11 installments paid throughout the year while he was president. >> we are joined now by the director the writer, veteran of the manhattan d.a.s office. welcome, both of you. here we are, okay? i'm curious what you think, having followed it back to when the story first broke and all these other trials. the week started with michael cullen.

i would say this ended on defense, whether or not he is always truthful. >> that clip shows how this is the saga of michael cohen's and donald trump's relationship, this relationship that michael cohen wanted to hold so close and so dear that it blew up on him. this hush money scheme, his own role, and lying about it, sentenced to prison and now, he is trying to bring donald trump into the scheme with him with prosecutors behind him. the story that he's been telling, that he got in trouble for lying about, says he told the truth about it to congress. there are supposed to be real consequences for donald trump, and the question is, does he have enough credibility for the jury to believe that version of events so that he can pull trump down with him,

essentially. >> you have been inside that office, you tried these cases and you've been a great expert for us. there is so much to talk about with bias in the world and the idea that you are only doing something for your political views but there's also information bias. we have all absorbed what emily referred to as this relationship saga. we don't have a reason to believe that this jury was following this closely and they are now instructed not to. i was watching in the courtroom as they got more and more detail about this very strict see and to them, it's new, newer information. >> i know mr. trump, i've stood by him, shoulder to shoulder. >> i think he's a wonderful

man, i'm obviously loyal and dedicated to mr. trump and i will do anything to protect mr. trump, his family, mike pence, and the campaign. mr. trump has a significant number of people and i would like to keep myself in that circle of extremely loyal people . >> not exactly a resistance whistleblower, the prosecutors argued that that virgin -- version of michael is the truth. how are you going to trust a guy who story keeps changing? >> he wasn't a good guy at day one, and we know that donald trump loves loyalty and sort of supported that fact, and at some point, when you turn your back on someone, that person turns around and tells a story

but you're not getting the campaign, the big boss, the major bad guy unless you have dirty hands but you want a choirboy? it goes nowhere. you need that person in that room as part of that crime, that bad act, to get the main player you're seeking. >> sammy the bull health to get godey. we covered that, recently. did you see samuel bull have the same recent credibility problems? we heard from experts, including veterans of the office, like you, that they did get some punches landed because there were real questions about whether michael cohen has not just changed since you got in trouble but has been less untruthful recently. >> you have to look at this not haymaker, down goes frazier sock him out. its body blows. i don't know if they landed enough because the prosecution did a good job humanizing him and so far to his credit, he hasn't been bombastic.

as cut from the cloth as donald trump, but different, who would go on these tirades as he has in his podcast. he's been respectful and calm, more so on day one and day two. it sounds right, it sounds correct and today he was much more yes and no and again, going back to what i said before, you're getting the bad guy. whether or not he wanted to become chief of staff, whether or not he asked for a pardon before saying he didn't want one, he's a regular guy. none of this is a home run. >> and you think that checks out. emily, so many lawyers in trump's orbit are in trouble. michael cullen went to jail for him. other aids went to jail for him. in thursday, i was in court and saw jeff clark. i don't know

why you'd want to bring the co- defendant from your other criminal problems into this courtroom, but there we are. he was convicted of other crimes in the same orbit and drew scrutiny to him. i was able to obtain his first jailhouse interview. he was convicted for crimes related to lying, he has his own set of issues, but he was the person on the other side of this and the one thing he said was that he thinks there's evidence to convict trump, he expects trump to be convicted, but he previewed what he said, notwithstanding the fact that they've obviously clashed in the past. take a listen. >> every case needs to have one or two primary witnesses who tell the story. from my perspective, i surmise that the d.a. is going to use potentially michael cohen or stormy daniels for that purpose and i think that has the potential to be a

disaster. michael cohen, i've never been a fan for various reasons. he's a serial liar, he showed himself to be incapable of telling the truth. >> well, obviously he has a problem and you can see it, there. one thing i've been thinking about is the way in which his previous testimony in the civil trial involving the trump organization gave him a chance to rehearse. we are seeing someone who was much more calm in terms of demeanor, is holding it together on the stand and we will see if that's enough to convince the jury. he has witnesses. whether he's now kind of accounting for the lie or making up for it by telling the part of the story that's true, that's what this task is. if you have a record of being convicted of perjury, you're automatically not the best

witness, but the prosecution really tried to lay the groundwork for the idea that this isn't a great guy. they are relying on him for a key fact, the idea that trump knew about these checks, the fraud part of the case. we are just going to have to see whether it's enough and then, what happens next? does the defense put on witnesses, who are they, how does the case go from here, how do we look back on this testimony when we have the full shape of the trial? >> going back, what does the case look like from here? though get him off the stand, and then there's diminishing returns. the jury will lose interest, when you lied about this, you lied about that. >> i promise to let you weigh in

, on the spectacle of politicians and members of the government undermining the rule of law which is unusual and bears some addressing. >> not even as a defense attorney, just as someone will first in the criminal justice system, to say it's inappropriate, offensive, and reprehensible, is not doing it justice. it's a complete understatement, and these folks are getting up there and this is nothing to do with donald trump, if and when he's proven guilty, you talk about wanting to be loyal to get something? that is why they are there. this is bootleggers who are upset with donald trump, who want nothing to be his lapdog because if he wins, they will get a fiefdom and maybe that's the vice presidency or the committee through speaker of the house. that is what they are about. why the governors of one of the

dakotas is talking about a criminal trial is beyond me. >> and undermining the rule of law. >> don't come to new york and undermine justice. if there's a political issue, i get that. >> we've seen in the federal system, there are presidents who would throw out a military trial because the president said something about it. this is supposed to be the tradition, you were going to follow with the jury says,.. that's after-the-fact. be met by their theory, if we have a trial in alabama, is a democratic candidate or elected official, all say this. he is not held to a higher standard in the courtroom but

he was outside the courtroom because we hold officials to a higher standard. you should be treated equally in the courtroom, but when donald trump is in this position, true or not, which is not because he has not been proven guilty, he has himself to blame. >> i don't mean to sound old- fashioned civics, whatever, but something i've touched on with you and in this discussion with emily, these are members of the government. it has to be a different standard. we are talking about if you support the government you are part of and we saw the insurrection. if you have the calls coming from inside the house, then we are in a big problem. thank you for joining us. after that parade, we will get into that, with our historian friend, but next, a special preview of the punch back but what comes next week?

we've got you covered. i'm visiting trump in the oval office for the first time. he said something to the effect of, don't worry, michael, your january and february reimbursement checks are coming. eart valve problem,... ...we're going for a better treatment than warfarin. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk. and has less major bleeding. over 97% of eliquis patients did not experience a stroke. don't stop taking eliquis without talking to your doctor as this may increase your risk of stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking, you may bruise more easily... ...or take longer for bleeding to stop. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. it may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor about eliquis. here's to getting better with age.

here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. sup? -who are you? i'm your inner sochild. get in.w. listen, what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. what happened to my inner child craving love and acceptance? how about you love and accept this? p-p-p-p-powershot! when can i drive? you already are! the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. why choose a sleep number smart bed?

can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 36 months. shop now at sleepnumber.com i thought i was sleeping ok... but i was waking up so tired. then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. their four—point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better. and stay married. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans can help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley (psst! psst!) ahhh!

with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy long lasting relief in a scent free, gentle mist. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills. welcome to the wayborhood. flonase all good. with wayfair, finding your style is fun. [ music playing ] yes! when the music stops grab any chair, it doesn't matter if it's your outdoor style or not. [ music stops ] i'm sorry, carl. this is me in chair form. i don't see you. -oh, come on. this one's perfect for you. but you. love it. i told you we should have done a piñata. i explained it so many times. um-hum. they're not sitting. -and it rocks... you need to sit down. ♪ wayfair. every style. every home. ♪

you may recall when trump was indicted people said oh, it's here, and that it turned out some of the indictments did not turn into trials.

you might have heard this trial started, people said it's here. i can tell you, it's here, for real, in the next week or two, by which i mean they are going to continue his trial but they know they will finish witnesses this coming week and it will go to the jury this week. we are really, totally here, and all of trump's delay tactics failed. the defense will finish cross examination and that should end by that morning or early afternoon. the judge told both sides to be ready to give closing arguments the following day, tuesday. that's the end, and then trump's fate transfers to those fellow citizens, a jury of his peers, to decide if he's guilty of a felony. we are joined now by a former

federal prosecutor. catherine, it's really here now. what's key next week? >> the judge promised that june 3rd would be on unless something happens. will they put on a defense case? i doubt it. if they don't, we can have summation sunday. tuesday. >> so let's talk about what that means because, number one, nothing wrong with that, nothing to infer. often, it's a wild strategy to not put on the full defense. >> there is no defense. can you remind us why? >> the prosecution has the burden. defense attorneys don't have to do cross examinations, they don't have to do opening statements. the defendant has an absolute right to testify at an absolute

right not to testify, and the prosecution cannot, in any way, and their summation or through questioning, infer why didn't the defense to say this or that. it's not, it shouldn't be held against donald trump because that's what most defendants do. he is apparently the last witness so you will hear them say that the people rest. >> and the right to testify, most defendants don't and there's many reasons trump shouldn't. i was asking one of his former lawyers today about that. i think the likelihood that donald trump takes the stand, it's more likely that beyonci forgets how to sing and dance, but for the sake of evidence, the judge asked, the court says, do you have any indication

whether trump and his client will testify, his lawyer says no, the judge pushes a little, no determination? can we read anything into that other than them maintaining to spend -- suspense? mac and the judge wants to know because he's factoring in the schedule. therefore, we are pushing it way past. that's just the defense being, i don't know, not coy, but -- >> i don't know this man but i don't know this tragedy. >> i think he's being coy. i think he has a client who likes to keep an eye on what's going on outside the court. we've seen that, and this idea that trump might testify. >> i've seen this movie too many times. this is not fast and furious, this is the eighth one, he

tries secrete the environment of bravado, the idea being that he's not afraid and all that. put to rest that, what's your view of what's coming up? >> what the defense should do is try to find mrs. who can get in their story but are not named. the challenge in situ witness who is willing to cut. they made clear that if you commit perjury, you will be prosecuted. that's why were not hearing from allen weisselberg. they need to get a hold of the shortsighted questions from michael cohen, something memorable for the jury that takes in their minds and the need to sit down and stop talking about it. >> you've done a mock trial with us before. old-school msnbc beatniks might remember you and alan dershowitz went to a courtroom trial did a mock trial, so do you have examples of questions you'd like to see michael cohen asked to deal with what we

discussed, which is real doubt and a lot of receipts? >> they need to focus on the pieces of his testimony that don't have receipts, but don't have corroboration, and they have not done that and that is the biggest failure. i would ask if, for example, michael cohen, there is no email, whatsoever, from donald trump to you regarding the falsification of business records, there is no text message, you don't have a recording of donald trump talking to you about falsified business records, do you? walk through all the ways in which you can isolate pieces of this testimony that are not corroborated. that is what they should focus on but they're all over the place and that's their biggest failure. >> interesting. catherine, i think it's fair to say that the defense has been meandering and at times,

boring, and this is a story. you never want to be too boring. we've had multiple x words, not just wishing trump to be convicted, i don't attract from why people think this man should face justice, but if we talk about the past week and next week, a lot of folks are saying they have raised questions. my question for you is, what you think the prosecutors can do in the office he's been in to tighten this up next week? >> it'll be interesting because i would always wonder what's going to come out of michael cohen. he is a liar. they can't tighten that up. they might want to tighten up, he keeps trying to revisit and plead guilty. i pled guilty, i shouldn't be prosecuted, it was the judges fault, somehow, he

tried to clean that up with just him saying, i pled guilty because i was guilty. i would hate, usually as a prosecutor, that is what the defendant says and i laugh but if it's your own witness, it's a problem. >> in a world without objections you might just say, we keep hearing this is so important to you and you have such strong feelings and you been building up to this and you been broadcasting about it. doesn't that mean that every fiber of your being wants to do this right and honestly and not blow it? if it's so important, you don't want to blow it, right? you try to reverse it that way or mention not enclosing to the jury, right? >> you're talking about prosecution? >> a bad couple days, there's an idea that he is so emotional he can be trusted, this is so important and he already went to prison once, why would he perjure himself now? >> he is such a liar, i would

not wrap my arms around him. i would have a prosecutor go through every piece of corroboration and circumstantial evidence that proves guilt and then say, and then of course, you can see all the things michael cohen said . he's not the nicest person and he is convicted of perjury but he is credible, here. >> would you as a prosecutor enclosing say we showed you michael cohen to show you everything and we don't need him to prove this case? >> i don't know if i go that are. if you have jurors who will day, we don't believe him, you do need him, so i wouldn't go that far. i would say, he's here because he tells the story. >> it's harder than it looks. we tip our hat to all of you. coming up, maga, getting

roasted, and what history teaches us. special guest for special coverage, "trump on trial". td felt embarrassing. i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. only number-one prescribed ingrezza has simple dosing for td: always one pill, once daily. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. take control by asking your doctor about ingrezza.

♪ ingrezza ♪

life, diabetes, there's no slowing down. each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. that's why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. uniquely designed with carbsteady. glucerna. bring on the day. top republicans have taken time out of their official duties to come to new york and show support for defendant trump and at times, to undermine the rule of law is self. we seen the spectacle in the courtroom with the speaker of the house, matt gates, and others, attacking this trial.

>> i think this trial is ridiculous. it's a sham prosecution. >> i wanted to be here myself to call out what is a tragedy of just this. >> this is a scam, a sham, a show. >> this is a sham trial. >> this trial is a joke. this thing is a farce. he met this is a sham. this is not the united states of america, it's a third rate banana republic. >> the opening question, is the trial a sham or are they trying to undermine the government's rule of law? >> what a clown show from a publicans, defending donald trump. dozens of republicans say the same things because trump says, you have a gag order on me, my surrogates will

defend me. look at matt gates, neofascist, probably rhetoric. look at them tumbling in from alabama, the collective idiocy of the republicans that were there to defend donald trump. anybody who thought to show up and kiss trump's ring, i think this dented their reputation. >> we have a lot of what they used to call defining deviance down these days. as a historian, can you think of other active members of government impugning and undermining trial before the jury even rules? >> no, it is startling. we are dealing for the first time a president or sitting

president, why not get out of the way? it's an attempt to undermine the constitution, make people think that justice doesn't work in the united states and it's not fringe figures, it's the dominant trend in the gop. it is sad. it's frightening because what a tinderbox we are standing on when that many members of one of our parties would stoop to such a ridiculous level. >> and trump awaits his fate. he is presumed innocent, but other people are not. there have been convictions for sedition for storming the capital, for the violence against police, the insurrection, and as a candidate, trump has repeatedly

talked about pardoning these people, not saying they didn't do it, which can be unlawful use of the party, but saying he will pardon them anyway. i don't know if the word would be vigilante is in or straight up autocratic license, but take a listen. >> they ought to release the j6 hostages. they suffered. >> i will look very favorably about pardons, full pardons, with an apology. >> january 6 defendants are having their lives totally just droid and are being treated worse than terrorists and murderers. if i become president, i will be looking at them very seriously for pardons. >> regardless of the outcome of this trial, does that context matter? should americans be concerned that he's openly talking about

amnesty for convicted seditionist? >> absolutely. watch what happened january 6. mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham denounced trump. people are willing to back someone was talking about lincoln pardons for people who ran an insurrection on the u.s. capital, helter-skelter fear, and yet trump is advertising and people are saying great. he's an autocrat. he's taking the use of pardon as a weapon and basically if you elect trump, he will arrest you if he feels like it, get you out of jail if he feels like it. that is why he is such a danger and that is why we are waiting to see neo-fascism rising across the land.

it been there a while but this many people are going to new york for a stormy daniels event to back his actions and try to disrupt our legal system with reckless rhetoric is staggering. >> do you think the founders underestimated how much the pardon power could be abused for encouraging crimes against the nation? >> absolutely. it's not just donald trump. i think presidents have been using pardon power, we saw that with bill clinton, every president in someway has probably pardoned the wrong people. but, abuse of power, donald trump is saying, re-elect me because i will abuse power and anybody who's in a fascist date of mind are my friends so i

will let you out of jail. >> well put, the founders gave a lot of thought to the abuse of power, given breaking with colonial england and conservatives, traditionally, worry about excess of power and here you have someone who's clearly taking control of the republican party, running on abusive power. thank you. next, we are going behind the scenes. we told you how many of our reporters are going into the trial. there are a lot of people going in as witnesses and observers and we will show you that, next. next. [music “this little light of mine”] in the world's poorest places, children with cleft conditions live in darkness and shame. they're shunned, outcast, living in pain. you can reach out and change the life of a suffering child right now.

a surgery that take as little as forty five minutes and your act of love can change a child's life forever. please call, scan or go online to give a new smile. thousands of children are waiting. it only takes a second for an everyday item to become dangerous. tide pods child-guard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. ( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand.

we have seen the nation and much of the world riveted by this ongoing trial of former president trump. many big, large crowds of people waited in line just to get in. we are talking about a big ticket in this in the man's city, long lines starting early in the morning and people trying to get into the courtroom . some have sold their seats for hundreds of dollars. last night, comex waiting. >> it seems like the only thing we are, wishing is making sure trump is well rested before the election. >> michael cohen laid out tons of evidence with tapes, emails, photos , and calendar events. it's impressive that one of his lawyers might actually win a case. >> trump ordered him to pay

daniels hundred $30,000, telling him "just do it." nike has changed their slogan to "yay! sneakers!" michael cohen was questioned about his use of tiktok and other people are using the platform. >> michael cohen, donald trump's former attorney just testified under oath. >> today was the straight up funniest day in court. >> this is where todd blanche is getting to michael cohen. >> michael cohen's testimony this week monday and tuesday has been nothing short of a complete disaster for for donald trump. >> we are living through this together and the good news is that people are taking in the facts and discussing it. we will see what the jury decides, when they decide it. keep it locked, right here, on msnbc. on this new hour, breaking newsse