[000:00:00;00] with full credit, it's going to be out of wood from beach. though the still easier for this patient

with me. ah ah. with hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the crisis and ukraine has demonstrated just how fragile and out of bounds global security has become. instead of a calling for a cease fire and the escalation nato countries are doing everything in their power to prolong the conflict. this approach is turning ukraine into

a failed state. ah, ah, cross knocking the situation in ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, michael maloof in washington. he's a former pentagon senior security policy analyst in new york. we have caleb mauppin . he is a journalist and political analysts. and in london, we cross through adrenal can santa, he is founder of a k consulting and a foreign affairs analyst or a gentleman cross talk roles and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate michael, let me go to you 1st in washington here. i'm, as i said in my introduction here, i'm watching politicians. i'm watching a hysterical media here. they want to escalate. i the people that know nothing about on a no fly zone are per, are promoting it. this is absolutely insanity. and so instead of de escalating, trying to find solutions here, is there, escalating it to where nato essentially going to be dragged into this. and unfortunately, there are a lot of people that seem to agree with that. go ahead,

michael. yeah, it's unfortunate because in spite of the, the crisis and the in the humanitarian devastation that has occurred the, it seems as though the west, particularly near the biden administration and most especially the neoconservatives with them at like victoria new and are, are pushing this to a brink and we, and i don't know why, except that they're trying to contain rush. i think they're trying to overthrow the government in the russia. i think that's our ultimate goal. they want the people in russia. i think that russia is the ultimate target. ukraine has always been just a the, the, the, the debate if you will. and, and this, and you saw this in the, in the lead up to the opening of hostilities when just stolen burger. the others were just so adamant about nato expansion. notwithstanding the fact that it's a violation of, of

a almost 30 years of agreements that were signed up there between the west on the east. and yet these agreements like all agreements i guess are made to be broken. and that's precisely what has occurred. and, and i think that the ukraine is just being used for, for, for their purposes. they don't want an attack on, on the west. but they, they want to do what they can to cast russia in the, in the, in the worst possible light. and, and to ultimately result in a, in a, in a disruption with, in russia itself. you know, caleb, let's get to you in, in new york. i mean if we look back at this, essentially this iteration of this crisis goes back to 2014 with the illegal overthrow of the government there with the backing of the united states and victoria newland is back. um, i know, hey caleb, it's, it's really quite remarkable, but no one in the foreign policy blob or in the media has realised the more quote

unquote nato nato countries help ukraine. the smaller it gets in more unstable and actually a lot poor. nobody likes to point that out. go ahead, caleb. sure. i mean, if you listen to american media, you would have no idea that this has been going on for 8 year. why american media is talking about this. it just started, i heard a cnn re order say that your brain was a useful country until i knew it just laughable. i mean, the fact that there have been so many data, at least in 1000, gone at some of the fact that nato expansion has been in place, that there has been worried island weapons into engine to. yeah. then, and frightening russia. blockade mean, i've made this analogy many times, but we have many spanish speaking people in the united states. if you imagine, if there was a judge in some state or a were at work, governor was lighting and tickets and getting them to court, received their own language. this would be rightly it owes and the number of the

apps that have taken place. and don bass shall, using turkish rounds to attack civilians. i, you know, russia has shown quite a bit of restraint. now they wait 8 years and you know they, they, they wanted diets in regards to reintegrate mack energy brand new, one of the names, the courts to be recognized and we carry through. so the way american me is representing this is just really outrageous. but what series, it seems like it's not only the 9 russia, but they want to escalate. they don't want this conflict the n downtown. exactly. it really, it may go to you in london at this in munich, security conferences here of all people come out, harris was there, and she was telling the media that there hasn't been a war in europe for 70 years. but there was a nato war against the former yugoslavia that was one. and as caleb, as pointed out a for 8 years, the don bass was assaulted in every way possible here. where is the context and all of this?

this is what really frustrates me. i can understand people that are very frustrated with the situation, even against russians, military operation, i can get that, but i don't get people that want, don't want to put it into context. you put it into context for us. go ahead. i think that this is what you just said. it's just but trays the but faithful. the united states and this whole conflict between russia and ukraine. i mean, getting out the context out of the equation. it makes much simple for this whole style actors and mainstream media to lie about this conflict. i mean, we know that the r t has been banned in europe, and it also suggests the fact that the distant voices or voices were trying to put the i mean, this conflict in the framework which started in 2014, i my so bye. you for your been in your credit in 2014, i put

a research paper for the house of clothes and for the bone group. i suggested that if the united states in particular and the west also called collective west, were low on the table and negotiation table about the ukraine, and it's ukraine being neutral. so lot be joining the nato. it will cause a very huge frictions. and this is the outcome of the previous common taste is brought me said a man from the very beginning to escalate with russia. and now i mean with the lead up to the escalation, few months later, months later, we could see that several european leaders like mister schultz and macro and was traveling as a messenger of the washington

d. c. or president by them to put in more more accurately, to a somehow do the diplomatic moves and somehow break at the diplomatic deal. they showed the importance, the european union is impotent. it's reluctant to stand on their own feet when it's come to when it's coming to the european security framework. and these are the consequences of the european impotence when it comes to that, the fast. we literally before our own eyes, we can see that the central europe is, is being turned into the middle east. many commentators and washington hopes are saying that they want to make ukraine another gun, the full president put in, but i'm not sure whether they will succeed. it will just come countries which are neighboring with, you know, with you for a light pole in between. yeah. perhaps hungary, which are the last lifeline i would say of the american hegemony in this part of

the world. but the ending seems to be very bloody and a very gloomy. you know, my, i agree. i mean, michael a, i don't think the europeans understand what they're supporting here. i mean mass migration. you don't know who these people are. the the prisons in ukraine had been opened up. the convicts had been armed. ah, it's all as complete chaos. i mean, i'm time i've titled, as for a program failing state, and this is what the west is doing is promoting the failure of the ukrainian state . go ahead, mike. well, yeah, i think, well, you can see it. it's been evolving ever since biden administration came in and wanted to reassert leadership and natal, they've had to, ah, over, over, extend themselves and push. they actually push the nato countries into this the other as, as your previous guess, just pointed out a germany, france and the others who live right next door were much more cautious about having any kind of confrontation with a, with, with russia and, and,

and as far as ukraine is concerned, ukraine has, has a actually violated its own basis for sovereignty, a from 1990 in which they pledged even then the big non aligned. and, and it was only in 2017 that they modified their constitution. join nato, again, pressure from the, from the united states and, and, and in the same with georgia. and they're gonna be getting it and, and they knew go full. well, they were very wide eyed about this. that it was gonna create a problem and it was a red line for moscow because of the it insecurity, the lack of indivisibility that has been talked about since the founding of o, s. c, e. and in, in which they talked about not increase in the security of the west at the expense

of the east. and that is exactly what has months after 1997. when we nato expanded into it into the east or to the central and eastern europe. and this, this is all the, at the behest of the united states, not the countries neighboring ukraine, and russia, and s as the, the, me get. let me go to kayla before we go to the break here. ok. of a, the drill sample here. ah, that you as political a, lead, and nato, they want rush as an enemy. it's a handy enemy to have, but they want to say, they've got actually gotten what they designed. go ahead. sure. i mean, if you look at this in light of the u. s. and it's the mastic events that with the economy crumbling and lation biden is very much following jimmy carter friends since the script and we're talking about afghanistan. yes, they force their forcing a situation where russia asked to basically intervene. i mean, russia has to have a red line in your grain and, and intervene,

and now they are whipping up syria against russia. scape goat, russia, blame russia with the economic problems that started long before long before this escalation. we've recently seen and they can, they can play up the idea that russia is the aggressor, and that seems to be the idea here on the states. well, it also, caleb, it solves a lot of biden's domestic problems, doesn't it? sure, i mean, biden biden can point to russia as the state or his failing administration and can try to, you know, you know, with public plus you have the memories of russia, gate and linking his domestic and with raj. caleb, i have to jump in here gentlemen. we're going to go to a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the situation in ukraine staying with

ah ah ah welcome back to cross hawk were all things are considered. i'm peter level to, to remind you we're discussing the situation in ukraine. ah. okay, let's go back to our guest in london, you know, and watching cable news in the us. it's all emotion,

it's all hysterics. but very few people are looking at the strategic shifts that are going on, how the world really did change on the 24th of february. and it would, i would submit to you the effort to isolate russia will have a a boomerang effect. i think europe is going to find itself very much isolated and with very few policy options because it's now total absolute complete total dependence on the united states and the united states will use europe for its own purposes, not for europe's own interests. i submit that to you. go ahead a, whoa again. i agree of your pizza. i mean, it is astonishing. is astonishing to, to see on such great western countries like france and germany allowing to, to this happened to, to europe. i mean, we know that asia, a economy economy power has shifted to asia and it did what this

conflict is telling to the asian economies. and the great powers in asia, like china in india, is that they don't, i mean they, they can't trust the west really, and they will do whatever it takes to prevent this mess or curing in their hemisphere. i would say also the narrow mindedness of, you know, putting this in very, very narrow context. strictly western european context is simply not right. because we can see that china is unwilling. i mean, i would say global se unwilling to sanction or vote against russia because of the world or international community, as they say in the western media, all in the western price, it's much louder than, than the united states. and it also states in europe. but people don't get it, they don't understand, they can't see beyond west and, and you was dollar dominance. i mean, this is the, the front of the fundamental problem with the germany off the,

a bretton woods it financial institutions including i, m, f, and world bank. people can't see beyond it at the unit. polo moment has, i mean the beginning of the end of the unit a moment started, i would say with the u. s. withdrawal from from a gun it's done. and now the ukranian problem, all ukrainian, and the situation is another nail in the coffin of the u. s. for germany. so u. s. a. germany is willing to drive the truck down and tie the western hemisphere . i mean, to be defeated or being a partner in debt can relate to defeat rather than allowing europe to look towards a towards the story and for stage longevity, i mean the west is dine, let us be honest. the people are the countries like india, countries like a parking spot,

are not willing to listen to the countries. i mean that the dictatorships in the united states, even middle eastern countries, like saudi arabia, o, m, m, iraq. he's our most recent. he, there will not be a good to get a phone call from a president biden, but they get a phone call from a president put in. so this shoot a tell a lot about the ships on the global chessboard, all geopolitical chessboard, but people in western europe in europe, in general, having a very difficult time in understanding the world is changing and then the world is slow and longer about united states and i think it's going to leave them behind michael, that basically the same question to you because you know what we're having now, we'll talk about the swift system and all of this. well, the chinese already have one. now the russians have their own version. they're probably going to connect them up here. there's going to be a lot of to economic distortions. but at the end of the day it's, it's building

a world beyond the west. and in this, it had gemini, is not going to be worth much. go ahead, michael. no, no, you're absolutely right. this is they actually the actual launch of the multi polar world. i agree. i agree that, that we've, we've been talking about actually for more than 2 years, even on this program. and i, i've gotta tell you that mr. mr potent probably thought that after a series of warnings over time and read and i'll talk about red lines that he made a decision to go eastward. and this is what's happened. he's basically cut off the west. he is, he's done with the west and that was, that is now very, very clear. and he's now looking eastward, and i think that the f and in post afghanistan and the fact that the even the, by the administration and trying to resurrect a dying nato and the e u cracking up. you're going to c e u countries now beginning to flake off and

start head a more to eastward, because that's where the market is. want to be, it's not going to be in the u. s. and there's and michael, i would, i would add to that, and this is my own particular thing here. i think it's got to use blinking word over used and abused word values because there's a lot of conservative people in eastern europe and there they don't like is woke isn't from brussels and all of that. i think all of this add together here. caleb, let me go to you. i mean, this is the great separation right now and you know what? personally, i'm not against it. ok. i actually been talking about it, particularly with michael on this program for years. that this is a separation that's going to have to happen. it started go ahead in new york. or will wall street in london very much want to keep the world or so that they can stay rich. it's about dominating the mark. it can't stand the fact that russia and as big oil and gas react, or in competition with wall street in london. well, and energy companies are, they can't stand the fact that china are phones while

a technology, apple and american producers do. they don't want the competition, they want the world, the state for, and they look at your asian economic union and the belt and road initiative. and the fact countries are rising up out of operating in alliance with russia and china . and they can't stand. and that's really what is underlying all of this at the end of the day. it's about holding back economic development. there is a feeling, in particular, among now called the anglo american establishment tickler faction of old money. it was in the united states. you talk about the rocket dollars, you can talk about, you know, wall street and we are in with silicon valley. they think the world needs to stay for they want competition. they think there are too many people in the world. they're going to drive mobile living standard down. and this applies to the united states also. i mean, look across america right now. the roads are crumbling. you know, our educational system is in shambles. the population is suffering, life expectancy is dropping. there was

a time where they needed this prosperous american middle class, the american green, the american cancelled like your tribe lower than the american working class to lower you know, conditions and driving down standards and a lot of people around the world. a lot of people here in the united states, i don't want to stand for, you know, they look at what's going on in russia. i good and, you know, we're at, there's a lot of pessimism going on. yeah. let me good adrian, london. just to echo with, caleb said, i absolutely agree with him here. that's why you have to attack descent. if you have a different opinion, we have a different opinion about what's going on in ukraine or any other major foreign policy or domestic january sex. ok. now it, this is all very, very convenient. it's a very broad brush to, to silence people. ok, i mean, will r t america will shut down because it was a dissenter. ok, go ahead in london for this, this move. so just another example of, you know,

the west being desperate because they very well know that most of people are not getting their information only from the mainstream media because they know that they've been lying to them. i mean, for over a year, i mean for many years. so that's why they are afraid of the fact that even the average people average joes are getting the news from via various of different sources. and they are not, you know, binding debate. they know what is happening and they are frustrated and angry with president boynton. i mean, even today was some outrageous headline in day the may here in the united kingdom saying that perhaps put in to be blame for called 19 i'm in the search of a u. k. i mean, how stupid one can be. i mean, i was so happy to read the commentaries under the article that you know, pregnant people not buying this because they know that they are just desperate to like, i think that the most extreme one i've come across them was

a few months ago. maybe last i with some kind of m u. k. science to said aliens will not want to visit earth because russia is an aggressive country. again, i was probably in new york times, i was in new york times. it was the your opinion piece from i forgot the name of the out of ok. well i thought i, i got his story, right. i got the scenario. i got michael who away in there about civil liberties here. because, you know, it's very interesting is that we had russia gade and then we had cove it day that we have ukraine gate to point out. i mean, constant tension, always making people afraid. okay, this is what they want. and those that speak out, you know, because they, they, they, they doubt the status quo. they must be silenced. they have to be made invisible. go ahead, michael. oh, yeah. our 1st amendment, which allows for free speech, is being shut down. and it's not just by government any longer. a government can shut down r t if it wants to, because of some violation of some relic or

a cold war regulation somewhere. however, companies big tech is now getting into the game of, of silence seemed descent of him and canceling you completely. rooney careers were seen this left and right, and there's no no way to defend against that except to go underground or create an alternative or an alternative world order if you will. but we're coming to that, we're coming to that point am and this country has become so polarized, because of it and, and, and any descent is looked upon. i mean, when, if you disagree with the policy, for example, if the, during the obama administration, you are a racist. well, no, we're not, we're not racist. and this is how they, they squelch descent and, and, and, and anybody who raises a question about anything. and we're seeing that even more pronounced today. again, the racism cart is being played very predominantly here to the point. it has

diminished the entire meaning and intent of racism and to. so if you descent in any way you are a racist you are at your mansell and give the last, rob, let me give the last word to caleb. you know, i, i'm in a weird way. i'm still on twitter and i'll tell you why i get notifications. and then when i hit the, you know, the notification, i can't see it. okay, i'm not allowed to post. i can't go to the home page. it's some kind of cruelty. they just keep sending me the notification and then facebook. it doesn't work okay for me. so they've silence me, but at least i have this, i hope the i hope to be able to keep it. last word goes, do you, caleb. 15 seconds. clarity is emerging and merging in terms of information as well . and silicon valley is not going to be able to dominate or make too much longer. we do the alternators that are in facebook that are emerging in this crisis is escalating the need that more they tighten them on isn't abuse. more people are

going to turn elsewhere and they're going to lose their monopoly. ready on spreading information. yeah, i use this. you can only blame russia for so many things. i suppose that's all the time we have gentlemen many, thanks them i guess in washington, new york and in london. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here, darky. see you next time. remember across the dock with ah oh is your media a reflection of reality? in a world transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation, whole community?

are you going the right way or are you being led somewhere? direct. what is true? what is great in the world corrupted. you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. i was going with this with you, i guess with you i'm

with with full credit. it's going to be out of wood from beach, gonna still be the station that's in the board

with with, with moscow says it will open humanitarian corridors for ukrainian civilians to russian territory on a daily basis without use approval. that's as decide to struggle to agree on other evacuation route, amid continued fighting with our t crew visits. families who have had to hide in the basement in an area that has seen some of the most intense fighting on the don best front desk to date, a project appears to the roof, where the keith bedroom is a move she has. and we're simply cut off, nobody announced anything meta breaks its own rules and allows calls for violence