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ah, ah, ah. hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm funeral about western media pundents and politicians refused to say the quiet part out loud. the conflict in ukraine actually has little to do with you claim itself. this conflict is united western front against russia. this means when the war is over, it will be on moscow's terms. any time ah, discuss these issues and more. i'm join mom, i guess, here in moscow, dmitri so soft, he's the deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies with the higher school economics. and we have a row. he is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis strap poll. i gentlemen crossed up rules and the fact that means you can jump any time you want,

and i always appreciate it. well, let's start with the me treat demitria. it's. i find a really curious of the last couple of new cycles. we have the ukranian prime minister saying the war, they're winning the war and they will win the war and it will be over soon. and then you have one of the biggest cheerleaders of this conflict, a country within nato, the british prime minister boris johnson. in many publicly in front of media that ukraine is most likely going to lose this war here. so, i mean, can you kind of square the circle for me here? because the banks, the question, if the british prime minister doesn't think this war is going to be one on terms that he finds acceptable, then why are they even pursuing it? because isn't this fighting a war to the last ukranian your thoughts? oh, 1st i fully agree the desire a national, the west is really to fire this war until the last ukrainian because the scores and deep multiple to this war is about getting russia out from the position of great

power. and thus restoring the leadership of the united states and the color west. the war has already contributed to consolidation of the west restoration of american dominance in europe, in a way which was unprecedented over the last, i will say 30 years. it is really about american lives, this really about such an international water in which the united states would restore, is position as a global leader. thus, whether you agree, it is defeated, you know, in the near future or in the long term future. i mean, your premiums die, it really doesn't matter. the purpose is to process militarily economical or undermine it political or thus the west is interested in this war going

on as long as possible. it is very, i think important that we have not heard any direct and explicit war from the united states that they support these agreements that they want to piece agreement as soon as possible. you know, there was some speculation about that, let's say from paris, mark wrong, told that you support the disagreement also forced out of the leaders who made the bias, russia, china, india. they all claim that they want peace agreement as soon as possible, but more from the united states and the major ones from the united states. because the interest is directly offices. the interest is endless. combination of this war and can i, station of ukraine. thus, we face increase all the supply so reference. that's with

a constant pressure over over the world for the countries to reduce their corporation with russia. and we face the increase in survey. it was interesting, the new cranium president zalinski a couple of days ago said that i guess he make, he can make demands right now. he wants the west to pay ukraine, civil servants salaries and $7000000000.00 a month or something like when you want them or to keep going, you know, and i mean, that sounds like a really good grip here. but on a more serious note, i think it's kind of counter intuitive when you think about it, because we get, we have the ukranian side saying, these are the mariel, you know, mary, also we will not be in negotiations with russian. if this happens, we won't be in negotiations. if this happens, you know, the same story over and over and kind of reminds me of december, january and february when the russians were trying to communicate with the west.

but the, the refusal on the part of the ukrainians to negotiate with the russians. basically, as i said in my introduction, it really allows russian to determine when the war is over and under what terms. i mean, they're not, you know, the west is using ukraine is as a forum to get it, russia and even the ukrainians are kind of, you know, walked away from their own agency by not being in the engage in some kind of negotiation. presumably, would be in their interest, go ahead. actually, you know, because of the stubborn a lensky and the west situation for ukraine as a state will be worse. for instance, months ago, the, the, him, the war from russia was clear. it was then, as if you cation the militarization and from the korean side recognize korea and the independence of both republic. but 2 days ago it has changed already. so no

russia up in the said that they will take control of the source part of the of ukraine. so, so no, the russia is clearly talking about creating on the last year, the worst, the worst nightmare for the west end. it will be worse if zelinski and the with the can't understand the current situation. and something is very interesting as well. and i saw it on the, on the french channel that the explain has during a almost 2 months is the russian army destroy. and the doctor couldn't want to finish before the 9th of may, and he couldn't do it and put in a said and is a put in or the minister mystery of of defense never said that. they want to finish on the 9th of my and know what it explains that yes, of course you destroy army,

but we are going to take the house of ukraine. and if you continue what it means, so you. so the 1st proposal was refused. so this is the 2nd one is worth of the 1st, and if you don't understand the worse, so we will take both sides of the never that that's, that's or the reason of this stubborn politic from the, from the west, from, from that. because of course, it's not a war between russia and ukraine. it's a war between russia and nettle in ukraine. that's exactly what happened. no. dmitri, one of the, the way i look at this here is that this is a lease from the ukranian western side. this is just one really massive propaganda campaign because the they, this is their, they want the west once a propaganda victory because a military one is simply not in the cards and, and that's what makes it very asymmetrical. one of the things i find very curious,

i'd like to know what both of you think. why should we assume that these armchair generals in the west that haven't one wars for 30 years, they understand brushes, war aims, other than d, not to vacation and demilitarization both can. you know, you can look very deeply into those, but there's in those 2 goals are very intentional. they don't really show very much . so what i've always said to people, and i get a lot of pushback, obviously, is that you, since we don't know what the, the end game, what the, the, the, the, the russian side has in mind for ukraine. you cannot really understand the process of the military campaign, and so if you don't understand the in game, you can understand the start and the middle part of the game go ahead meter. well 1st i think that no matter how much a reference of the west requires to ukraine, it will not be able to radical shift the balance of power. simply possible. i

am, there is no way for your grain. even with all the western support. a, you know, with sharing and so forth to, with this war it's, it's just impossible. and this makes the western position. so cynical, of course they understand that your greatness for failure to you know, either sooner or later, but it is full failure and they're just this agony. i deliberately allow more people on both sides to die and more if you are going to suffer. because of course, they also are i fully agree on the propaganda side. in of the informational dominance in the global media is one of the very few instruments of power which is almost fully possessed by the way that, you know,

they're losing military. they can already lost millions, they are losing financial dominance because the error of the dollar termination mobile resource currency and exchange currency is ending right now. they are also, they're also losing political dominance for is the overwhelming majority of the north western countries in such graders. china, india, brazil, my middle eastern conference, latin american congress did not join sanctions. i, they, they're actually strengthening their relations with russia most decreasing. so the only instrument which is still in almost full possession of the west is information for grading narratives. in the global media. you know, they're doing, i agree, you know, there is the narrative that the greatest of nothing to do with reality

because i remember the day defines the russian original russian and gave as complete occupational, you know, i was talking about them a call in 24 hours and all that, you know, exactly. i mean, i find it really astounding. if we look at afghanistan, we look at iraq, we look in syria, how these people can even show their face in public. ok. look at the fall of kabul, everything was fine in afghanistan until it wasn't okay. and these people are talking about what russia's military aims. yeah. i mean, i've never understood why any kind of occupation of care would be necessary at all . okay. and now you're wider, says, you know, we will not allow roster to or by the whole of your grade. who has ever said about the russian intention to occupy your grade, especially provided. i mean,

even the very limited number, of course the brush is using in your brain. very limited. ok, but oh no, but there are shortages and they're asking china for help is desire. you know, actually what, what did russia started? an operation in 4 direction. they observed, and this saw that in a 3 direction of things going very well and very quick, very fast. so this is decided to concentrate the forces in the place where is a, it's a most easier it's, it's ural, it's nothing surprising. it's doesn't mean that the, the doesn't want to, to the, the da says if there is a failure in the nozzle for credit is completely different. but you see the difference between the, the rook and forces. and the russian force is that the root can fuss is lead by a communication team that the recent rise of the sacrifice with troops in the or you pull their refuse to if i could them to fight in another line. ok,

this is what a meet area you should have done. but in russia it's exactly the country for break . and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stan ah ah . so called enhanced interrogation techniques used by the u. s. officials were basically designed as techniques to break down the human mind. if you force a human being to stay in a certain position doesn't take very long to the pain involved, to become absolutely excruciating, but nobody's lane finger on you. you are doing it to yourself. we started adopting those techniques when i was stationed in mosul. among them were stress, positions,

sleep deprivation, inducing hypothermia. there's already beginning to be evidence that these old techniques are now being used on immigrant children. whatever you do or more comes home. nobody has been held accountable for the torture that happened in the past and the moral authority that made america world leader sacrifice the shimmer of effective interrogation. and look forward to talking to you. oh, that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence at the point, obviously is to create trust or rather than fear, like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence,

real summoning with a robot must protect his own existence with a welcome back across that were all things are considered i and he really well, this is the home and it should remind you were discussing some real news. ah, let's go back again here in moscow. we were talking about the how russia is pursuing opperation in ukraine and i and we had to go to break. so finish up, go ahead. yeah, i just, i would like to tell that the team are leading the ukraine forces are the commission communication team. that the reason why the sacrifice troops in my you,

paul, when they were able to move them to the west, to fight again. but i don't want to lose my uncle. exactly. and comparing hitler was in ski. okay. it's just a point of view for operation. exactly as the same that it can refuse to move the german troops into battle countries. because said, but if we move the about the countries bins or we lost the war and so as the resolution go to rebellion and the germans, the demand troops couldn't to fight any more does the end of the war. so it's exactly the same. on the contrary, on the russian forces, this is the military were leads operations, and you saw that for instance, in kiff, of course, on the honor communication point of view, it was a fellow for russia because a kiff could pretend that they start to control infancy then that'll but actually in writing a put in doesn't care of that illegally give the lead to the military. and so that

the forces to bring them to the are the men operation. the men operation is the east of you quinn for to reason. first of course is the question of liberating gun bus. and the 2nd point it, because the army zucker arm you were about to invade, don bus is all concerted on this at this place. and again, zalinski and of course is our sponsors. there does wants to move the current army to move them to the west, to try to, to build a new line of defense. there will lead them a hand in severe illness. can you see chance? it's love just because i don't want to lose the communication. we're but underwritten size. i don't care of losing a checker. we're when there will be in the pub. it was in or in odessa and such. a good point is, i only go back to dmitri here. i mean, you know, obviously it's my job to cover western media on this topic and i've been, you know, unlike western media, i've been covering this ever since the my,

the qu on my don in 2014. and so the context is very real and meaningful to me and it's obviously for both of you here. but the, this, there's very little commentary about who is, who has influence of the in regime. and can we have these a soft group? we have private sector, we have, we have a really maligned group groups of people that are turned into freedom fighters, which in fact they are not ok in the intelligence service. they s u b, even before the military conflicts started on february 24th of this year. there was scathing criticism of their behavior as a secret police, very much along the lines of the stars, the in east germany. please tell us a little bit more about that because that's really a black hole in the coverage of this conflict. or 1st, i will read it,

discuss the issue of the west grading narratives, which are very little with the yellow to the narrative. democratic government in ukraine is precisely why you know, because 1st again, joe biden is wired, lou talking about the democratically elected government to new grade. here we have to be are in mind that the current regime in ukraine emerged as a result of it as a lot of cool. right? so yet, physically ask you was elected, but the whole regime came to power mode as a result most through a credit process. and secondly, especially already before the beginning of the russian special operation. but especially during witnessing a very red cross formation of this current res, you in gear towards a staunch dictate, i will say,

comparable to the theater ships and central asia in the previous case. most even today. because what we're viewing political part as being a political rivals been put into prison or maybe the torture persecuted. right? all the opposition is being burned down completely. any one, both among the political elite in the society who does not share the mainstream is being interrogated and persecuted, right? people are in danger. they can no longer have to point out to me is that the media has been nash virtually on media, has been nationalized. and so there is no freedom of speech in the part of the brain which is under the control of the

machine right now. and this is the real thing which is completely missed by the west who continue to create the picture of the struggle, you know, between the bad it's been so hold off right there in russia. and so my credit cream, you know, in fact, it does not match the realistic goal. you know? exactly. yes, i would like to add that there is 2 men. opponents. 2 are lensky. the 1st one is maybe the truck is in jail. the 2nd one is a natalie sherry is an excel in spain. and oh, and actually it, and it didn't stop because of the war because a year ago already zelinski close 3 tv channel. because there were a provision is supposed to be production channel. and there was supposed to belong to me, which hook? and actually it took sanctions, again is all citizen. so know the care for him is origin when you can send people

to j, you can a sits without any court just taking the decision from the will because the prince decided, and the prince know, is a lensky. so of course, it's not a democracy, is just a, it's just addicted to a country. because of course, when you should not agree you will be interrogated. and what is interesting is what happens know, in the source of ukraine. we're the region where the russian immediately the control, i mean a customer region and to sort of the barrels. a region knows there is a military civilian administration from the russian side. and people are very happy using rouble. they can again speak russian in the street in the school. in the university. we don't been being a 3 than we are getting a penalty. so in my opinion, is that the russian need to do,

and i would like another example, if you are, if you allow me know that the city of cooper and is about under 30 kilometers, increase of rock of was immediately taken by the russian because of the local massa ok, don't destroy anything, we will cooperate with you. and what did the s b u z kidnapped? her daughter is his daughter and the threatened him and so he had a 2 megabits each and you can find it easily on the ent and it's saying that he zelinski is responsible for what will happen to his daughter. so this is a little bit liver. we are know, you look at the look at some adventure when you were song by s b, u, it was kidnapped, i think maybe 3 weeks ago. and it's clearly that the, the condition where he leaves know, are very hard for him. and it's even a shame showing a domain, again, is a main resilience is open and look at him. it's exactly is

a symbol of the shift key regime he's know. yeah, well you know, that that's all part of the narratives that dimitry has been mentioned on this program already. another a narrative that is actually again, very counter intuitive. so the west sanctions, russia sanctioned like no other country. and we've talked about sanctions on iran and north korea been right, has under a sanction here. but you know, everything that goes wrong in the west, immigration inflation, a supply chains. and it's also the religious as a you, thanks unit you cause all these problems for your own people. and then you say it's the russians call it what, what is the book price? i, it's, i like to call it here. i mean, again, it's really, this is really just a propaganda campaign because if you get down to it, ok, so you want to cut off russian energy. so you take that energy off the market, the price goes up, and russians make more money for. i mean,

i don't know who's thinking about these ideas because the more they push, the more they hurt themselves. and they're having a very difficult time. because i think, personally, there's going to be a lot of social unrest in the west because of this. this is, and the sanctions, no matter what happens are not going to go away any time soon. metering. well, i say that this process of social or, you know, the inflation a united states is unprecedented for the last 3 decades. i and it's going to be worse, no better or worse, the more sanctions dos the west apply to worse is the domestic condition, but also the worse is the state of the global economy. what drives me is, for instance, the latest statement by the minister of finance of the g 7,

which was adult last week, claims for ridiculous the sanctions against russia award designed in a way that there are a global. i mean, this is just a staunch line from a to set the course precisely, the anti russian sanctions. and the result of the increase of their price is the major reason behind the increase of the price. no, because we started that of the car school of economics and over the last 50 years there is absolute dependence, direct absolute dependence between the price of oil and the price. you know, they just follow the unrest and social and rest. of course a, you know, the full deficit,

the price would result in the famine. in the 3rd world in africa and a game already know of the g. 7 countries are trying to put the blame on the roster . whereas in fact, they are the responsibility because it is their attempts to establish new oil embargo on russia, which results into the price. i right? yeah, uh i like to global the com to finish on this we just of the reports coming out of the u. k. now that the upcoming winter things remain the same, is that they're going to be extreme fuel insecurity for the average britain who would have thought that for a g 7, g, 20 country. but that's where we are gentlemen. as all the time we have, i want to thank my guest here in moscow. i want to thank our viewers for watching us here to see you next time. remember rostock was ah

ah, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safe, isolation community? are you going the right way or are you being led to some with what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah

ah. it's a bit trapped in an elevator. 20 minutes could be pretty long time. right and a load trapped an elevator for 20 minutes. not knowing what's gonna happen, not knowing where you are a sense of sensory deprivation. i think that is your life. that 20 minutes about an hour, not at all. you're in the intercom is nothing i was trying to get you out. i was keeping you in is your communication ah, that's existence. ready ready ah.